This is Episode 11 of the Ask Dad Labs podcast recorded on May 13 2021. It's simple. You ask questions and dad's answer. When we need actual answers. We find the experts. Today from Louisville, Kentucky. We have Nick. And he has kids who are six and 13. And we have clay from Austin, Texas. He has three kids. One's in high school, one's in college, and one is in the Coast Guard. And I'm Ben and I'm in the Detroit River just south of Detroit, Michigan. My boys are 11 and 13. Let's get to the show. You know what we forgot? We forgot to do May the fourth. I forgot about that. We didn't do anything about it. We didn't mention it at all.
That's weird. Because it was Thursday. And it was already past.
I'm wearing my robes now.
You know, I was thinking about that. I was actually thinking about that yesterday, and I've got to admit something to you guys, because for the longest time, I thought I thought Chewbacca was a really tall Ewok I didn't know that he was this other thing. That was such a rookie mistake.
Man. I am a big Star Wars fan. And, you know, I'm a dad and I love dad jokes. But Damn, dude,
it's a it's a galactic empire wide disappointment. Really?
Yeah, that Wookie mistake. All right. Okay. All right. So I've walked right into it.
Speaking of rookie mistakes, our first topic today.
This comes from this comes from the internet. Breton doesn't show up this week. But so someone was asking about tips for trimming a toddler's fingernails. And in that, in that that's a, you know, that's a rookie mistake, I made a lot and we ended up with bloody finger stubs a few times. But I also forgot that DadLabs actually had a video I had forgotten that, that Troy had recorded a video about fingernail trimmers,
we did. And you know, one of the things about this show that's going to be I think, really fun, is going to be diving back into the archives, because now he's a lot of these videos are 10 or 12 years old. And so yes, 10 years ago, maybe even 12 2009
to January of 2009.
We made a DevOps video, we basically gave Troy his own segment, which was supposed to be geared at and he was just going to do reviews of gear. And what was sort of interesting about this segment to go back to is it's uh, you know, Troy did a great job. It's, you know, he's he found two different kinds of specifically, you know, baby, you know, nail clipper products for that he reviews and you know, one's got lights and one's got a magnifying glass. And, and he reviews these products. Really revealing thing is going back 10 years is the is now the comments. You know, it's been out there for a decade on YouTube, which is sort of mind blowing to think about, and the videos now got 35,000 views. But really, there's, there's about a dozen comments on there. And the comments are priceless. And really what, what is on the comments as you've reviewed these clippers, but really, you're kind of an idiot, because you shouldn't really clip baby's fingernails. You should use an emery board because they're so fragile. And Daddy Troy you really blew it. So I don't know where to come down on this argument. Like there are products out there that are specifically made to trim baby fingernails and hair. Remember this, the fear that you know, on the one hand, if their fingernails are untrimmed, they are velociraptors that will peel all the skin off your face. However, trimming their fingernails gives you the anxiety that you're going to amputate their hands and it's microsurgery it's basic microsurgery. So anyway, from reviewing the DadLabs video, there are specialty fingernail clippers, but you should consider just using an emery board to give them a full like, you know, nail experience and avoid
I have an actual even easier way to avoid that problem. Okay. And that to make their mother do it?
Oh, well, yeah,
I mean, is it is that is that part of the
that's not allowed. You can't that's not that ethos.
Sorry, I wasn't gonna do it, I could not handle that level of stress of drawing blood on my tiny children. I couldn't do it. I never trimmed their nails. Nope, not gonna do it.
And just the few times a week, I tried the trauma, the kids ran from fingernail trimmers. In fact, I don't know that they specifically remember that but they still won't trim their nails. You know, I've bought them Deluxe kits hoping that they would actually get them out. And their, their nails aren't, aren't long. But they're obviously bitten off, even though they've got these really nice kits. And so that's what it's one of the things we'll address down the road. But babies is a whole other thing. And I honestly blame the trauma of me trying to do it. But I was I was so tense, you know, it's hard. I think the emery board is the right way to go. Because even when you trim them, it leaves a really sharp edge. And so you still have to file those down a little bit. But the file will take enough away that you don't even have to use the trimmers. So I really do think that's the right way.
You can you identify parents of newborns by the scratches on there.
It's like, Oh, do you have a kitten? Did you do you have a cat and that? No, that's just my newborn because I'm afraid because those nails they're so it's impossible to describe how razor sharp This is not in the baby brochure that they come with talons, and they're these razor sharp nails that
will slice you. Right. And as we talked about, you know, we're dealing with a puppy, you guys, we've had puppies recently, the vet will trim the nails when we take him to the vet. So if the if the pediatrician would trim my baby's nails every time we take them like every
it should. We should require pediatricians do this. And this is genius. We need to petition pediatricians, we need to go to the national organization and say guys, this should be a standard part of every well baby visit. Yeah, there
it goes. A sponsor eyes do the nail. veterinarians have figured this out. They do this. This is just a service that they offer. You have to do this.
Yeah,
yeah. Good luck. At the very least i do think they should show parents how to do that. At the very least that'd be that is a question. Hey, new parents. That's a question. Ask your pediatrician. The next time you take care of a well baby thing. Say hey, how do I trim their nails? Don't Don't go with Don't let them answer. Oh, use an emery board. Oh, use these little bitty clippers. That's not bringing one emery board with you.
Yeah, and say I don't mind.
How do I do this? That's absolutely right. But yeah, again,
we saw this we saw Monday night.
So instead of instead of turning it over to mom, we've turned it over to the medical professional. Better. what's what's the copay on a nail trim anyway? Right. Maybe you should take him to the vet.
Try that. My grandkids? I don't
know. So. Okay, so the next question is who trims a Corgi named Dave's nails.
I think we've we've covered this. This is the problem of the vet. And so, you know, I feel like I you know, I've done I did a couple of well, when David was a puppy, and his nails you know, their their claws are so thin. He stuck to the rug. So, like Velcro. Yeah, like he couldn't detach himself. It was like getting stuck in the rug with his tiny claws. So we did have to do one or two trimmings ourselves. Oh, you didn't have maintenance.
That's funny. That is as a better joke than the rookie mistake. Oh, there is one other thing you can do with little babies. Put socks put their socks their baby socks, put them on her hands.
I have some great pictures of the boy with the socks will probably stay on their hands better than they will on their feet.
Yep.
Yeah. The other thing I do remember is that that they trim easier and they they find a way easier after a bath after they've gotten so So,
let's get there. And I do believe I do believe mom did it several times while they were asleep. That's smart. All right. There you go.
The next topic we've got tonight is kind of how to get them to, you know, do their own nails sort of thing. So we talked with the last episode, we talked about play, think and Nikki talked about how indie had kind of branched out on his own and gotten his own, getting sort of eliminated some of that separation anxiety that he'd had. So I was thinking about that, actually, we're getting ready to start a Farm Market at my church. And my son, Duncan has been making sourdough bread for a few years, his brother Christian has been doing it with him since 2017. Duncan's doing it alone, the last couple years. And so I was talking to him about doing it. I assumed he was not going to continue this year. But he decided he wants to, but he tells me that he's afraid of doing it by himself being at the at the booth by himself. He says, because I'm no good at organizing. And that just that just hit me in the heart. Because I feel like, you know, it's, it's the next step, I think, but it's fostering that independence and the creativity, and especially how do you get them to try things when they might fail? Because it's hard as a parent to send your kid out there to fail? Right?
Well, first, Duncan, I feel your pain. Do it now anyway, when you when you're not paying rent, and don't have other responsibilities of a financial nature?
his money when he sells bread, by the way?
Oh, yeah, no doubt. And I struggle with that. So it's gonna be really hard for me to teach my kids that. But the I'm no good at this. Well, for me, it started out as you know, one of the things drawing, you know, I'm not good at drawing. People say that all the time. Well, you're no good at drawing. Do you draw? No. That's why if you draw, even the best artists, they practice, everyone says, Oh, I got so much talent. No, that artists practiced, you know, there is a certain level of creativity that is in people's genetics in their head. But the actual physical technique of these things takes practice, you just have to do it. I can't go front side on a skateboard. I mean, it's full, puckered. For a front end, anything turning front side with your chest towards the coping scares the living shit out of me, and has for 30 years, because I don't do it, because it scares me. If you're not good at something, but you need to do it, or you need to be better at it. You have to practice you have to do it. That's all I got.
And I think that's a that's a really great insight. I mean, I think when you're trying to teach your kids and this is like a comedy, where you're talking about his kind of risk taking and grit and creativity. I think, you know, some of this comes down to what all parenting is, which is, you know, part of it is demonstrating it yourself. Part of it is modeling. Part of it is, you know, showing in your own life where you took a risk, and maybe it didn't work out, but you learned something, which I certainly told my kids, you know, plenty of stories in my life where, you know, I took a risk, it maybe didn't work out, but it taught me something that led me to the next thing. And I think that's a really valuable vulnerability to show to your kids when you failed, and then found something that you learned that led you to something new. So part of it is modeling. The other part of this is, you know, positive reinforcement, when you see those behaviors show up and your kids are taking a risk and they're doing something that that that may even resulting failure. You know, that's where you've got to be, you know, with the encouragement and with the positive reinforcement, you know, because kids or it's so tough, as a as a kid to take a risk. It's even harder than it is for us. And when you see it, it's just it's beautiful because it's just pure courage. You know, It's just pure courage when you see your kid, do something like that. And so you just have to know I've got to be super present in that moment to totally reinforce that behavior. So you model it, you, you, you back it up when you see it. And, you know, here's the other thing, that you'll hear more of the bad stuff, you'll hear all the bad stuff, as a parent, so a kid has failed. And you're gonna hear every detail of why this was a horrible, terrible, awful, that's your job as the parent. And the one thing you've got to know, is, as you're hearing that, they're on the other side, there's, there's another side of that argument happening in that kid's head, they're only going to give you the bad part. And when they're through dumping all that on you, and you now feel like oh, my God, this was a total tragedy, this is all bad. On the other side of that, that kid has left it with you. And then the other side of it, they've dumped that, that's the way that they've dealt with it. And they're on to the positive. So don't take all of that offload. Do you know what I'm saying? Go take all of that offload on its face value.
Well, in fact, that's almost exactly what you talked about when you talked about the first field hockey game. Right? Your daughter, she talked about how she messed up in some things, but but you spun that in our conversation about how, you know, how great was it to be back on the field for the first time? And all that? How does sports work out? Nick, and I don't have kids do in sports? How does? How does that do with with failure? I guess one thing that I was thinking about with that is, it seems like your kids generally have been on really successful teams. And I wonder, I mean, just just from, you know, from, from our perspective anyway, I wonder how much how much risk taking happens with kids who are on perpetually successful teams, you know, the, the kids that are on the team that beats up every other team in soccer or basketball, you know, the, the team that's made up of the tallest kids, the biggest kids, the oldest kids, I wonder how much they actually learn about being maybe an entrepreneur or how to take risks, because they're not taking a risk. You know, they're, they're on an easy path. And when I wonder how that works out,
well, the irony of that, that I you know, it's funny, because what you see on social media may feel like, you know, success after after success after success. But the real truth of my kids athletic experience is that they play for a school that's there, that our school is the bottom of the conference, that they play in real life, and they struggle to, you know, win against bigger schools. And so typically, my kids have, have, they've had, as athletes an underdog experience, that they're always the team that's not expected to win. And, you know, I've thought about that, as you know, there are schools where the expectation is 100%, you're going to win, and you dominate, and you win all the games, and you're part of this tradition. And that teaches a certain value. And, you know, other you know, other sports, you know, create a different experience, you know, where you struggle, and you you aren't always the winning team. And that's, that's the experience that my kids had. And I think it does teach some of these lessons about resilience and grit. And then when you finally get a win against the team, that's always the best. It's fantastic. And my daughter had, she had
it's amazing then because they've they've gone through this and they've struggled to get, you know, as far as they have, but they've continued into college to do the same thing. All three of them played, played sports. Well. It hasn't. Yeah,
my oldest two went on to play college sports. But again, it was a struggle. You know, my son played a Coast Guard, Coast Guard, you know, it struggles because of what they're doing in the military to be ready to compete against some of the teams that don't have to be away training on a cutter all summer and they're practicing their sport. And so you know, Coast Guard Academy soccer, kind of middle middle pack struggle, and he struggled to find his place on the team to didn't get a ton of minutes, just you know, and but but found a significant experience there. My daughter, you know, the college that she goes to kind of middle of the pack. There are some dominant teams that win ever thing every year in our conference. And, you know, I think that struggle that that athletics has been that their story is not one of leading the championship parade. Their their experience in athletics is, I've showed up every day, I've worked really hard. I've, I've, I found a team, sometimes we have adversity, sometimes we, we find success. And so for us, it's been a good way to understand what like.
Yeah, that's, that's a great metaphor for, for my experience. So certainly, you know, and you guys know, you guys experienced the food truck. And there were days where we sold 30 $40 in pizza. And, you know, I'm paying, I'm paying out $400 a day for my people. So I'm, you know, losing almost $500 In the end, on a day when, when it rains. But we showed up. And and, you know, I think that's, that's such an important lesson. And it's very, very difficult to do in to teach that as an elementary school. You know, we're a grade school aged kid, because it's so easy to say, we don't need to go to we don't need to go to the parade because it's raining, or we you know, all these all these activities that are going on? Yeah, and so I sure hope my kids understand that we do things because it's important to show up. And failure, you know, failure is, in a lot of ways, failure is is the best lesson, you don't learn as much when you succeed, because you never know what it was that made it successful. You always know what made it fail,
correct. And successes, there's, there's a lot of chance to at all, there's a window of timing, current events can affect it. Like you said, the weather, anything is particularly in that in that type of business in the market business. You know, it's, it's scary when that's all then that's when that's all you're doing. But as far as him, you know, organizing, I would recommend tell him, you know, you know, you've done it, just, you know, yeah, it's, there's not that much to organizing a show. Well, honestly, with
this, this, this and this, make sure you have these things. And you're good to go. And, and we'll worry about the other side of it, you know, the unforeseen things as they come? Well, luckily for him, he can medically fix his organizational skills, because he's ADHD. He can he can take some Ritalin at lunch and be all good for another eight hours. So, so that's good, but and I don't think he often realizes just how different that makes it for him. And so I think right, he'll get a hand up. But
he,
this will be this will be an interesting experience for him. I'm going to be managing the market when I've been there to stand over their shoulders, this last few years. So we'll see. It'll be it'll be an interesting experience. And you got a dunk and you can do it. At the very worst, he'll he'll sell a little bit of bread and decide it's not worth it. And I'll stop. And that's not a big deal. So he tried. He's actually he's actually kind of famous for his bread on our island. So. So that's kind of fun.
I think he's learning incredible stuff.
Yep. All right.
The next thing is, is sort of related internet wisdom, especially from I'm gonna say that it really comes from from our generation from Gen X a bit, but also from baby boomers. is is this wisdom that your kids are best served by letting them roam free and not come back until the dinner bell or until the the automatic lights come on in the streets? And all that? Is that really the best way to have your kids run all summer?
I don't know. I did that I totally had the run of the neighborhood. I could go anywhere, do anything I wanted. As long as I was home at like seven o'clock. And as a kid. I wasn't really afraid of anything. As a dad. It absolutely terrifies me. Now I did live quite a bit further out in the suburbs. I live a little more in the city now. It's not quite you know, it's not downtown or anything. But there are some very busy streets very close to my house. High speed. And our particular street does not is a very wide street but it does not have sidewalks, some of the other blocks around our neighborhood do so there's that There's just that one safety measure. I'm comfortable letting my 13 year old he runs with his, his neighbor, kids, his friends, they take their dogs out for walks and things and, and they kind of can go where they want. And I don't particularly worry about them. I don't feel like I live in a bad neighborhood. There are places that I don't want them to go that are known. There's a Circle K down in this, you know, a couple of blocks away that like you do not go to the Circle K for any reason whatsoever ever. There have been far too many robberies and stabbings and everything else there. It just in the last year, let alone the last three years that we've been here for years. So yeah, there there are places they are not allowed to go. my six year old, has not too long ago, went on the adventures of her own by herself. In the dark. We were home, when we did not know she left the house. And didn't know she was gone until a neighbor brought her. They came over and said hey, we just want to let you know she's over here with us at our little bonfire. They had a little fire pit. So she went and walked around the entire block in the dark and ended up crashing their little gathering in their backyard. Are we got really good neighbors. And they're like, yeah, she's over here. She's having us more. And we're like, wait, what they thought she had just come out the backyard and saw that there was a fire over here at the fire pit and all her neighbor friends were there, you know are they know each other. So she just went over and crash their party. And they have a little grandson. So that's like for a little younger than her. So went over in detail, but didn't know the full story about how she had gone all the way around the block before she got to that point. So that absolutely terrified us. And then a few days later, she did it again, she got lost did not go the normal route that we do. And when we go for a walk or a bike ride and saw a mom pull into the her driveway and was going into her house and said, Hey, excuse me, I'm lost. Can you help me get home? That neighbor brought her home. And she had crossed one of those major streets. So you know, we're we're absolutely terrified. And my wife slept on the couch for like three months downstairs, just to make sure that the little one didn't go out in the morning or at night after everybody went to bed. That I mean, it was absolutely terrifying. And, again, not a bad neighborhood, I don't think. But I worry that just you know, the wrong person didn't see this six year old truck going along on her own. And just you know, the whole obvious fear of somebody snatch her up. I realized that doesn't happen very often. But I don't want to be the parent to experience that. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and that so I don't know that it's the best thing for them. I love absolutely love that she is that confident in herself and in her surroundings. That she was comfortable doing that. I do like that. Yeah, you don't even get to go out on the porch without us right now, girl. You're like 18 because that was not cool at all. I can't even imagine. Oh my god, dude, it is. It was it was horrible. It was absolutely horrible. And, but I also get it. I mean, there's a couple of parks, two blocks away, I would love to be able to get out of the house, go play at the park. Don't go anywhere else go to the park, swing, slide and come home. You know, I would love to be able to do that. And we are just not there yet. And I think I won't get there before Alice.
She's not even ready to let the boy the 13 year old watch the six year old for 20 minutes while I go get gas for the lawn. You know, she's like, nope. Yeah, take her with you. So, yeah, I don't know. Clay you've you've got kind of a different environment, though. You've got a date. Oh,
yeah. I mean, we've we've always I mean, the thing is that human beings in general, are not good at assessing risk. We're just not we get distracted by there's plenty of clinical studies that show that human beings are just bad at assessing what really is and Geez, having gone through the last year, you know, we've also seen some, we've seen our neighbors you know, making these assessments of risk that that Team out of line with what the scientific or objective reality is. And that's just a that's just a human thing, right? So if you look at what the risks are to children, the risks are cars, pools and guns. This is what is risky to children in America, most of the injuries and deaths to children happen because they're not properly secured in the car. So the first thing you know, if you're really worried about the safety of your kid, make sure they've got a good car seat, they're properly buckled in every time you get underway in the car, don't drive when you're, you're in any way incapacitated. The second thing is pools, make sure your pool is secure. And because this is, you know, drowning is one of the biggest risks to young children. Yeah, there's guns, if you if you choose to have a gun in your household, make sure that it's secured. And, and it's not possible. I saw a story today where that two year old shot her parents and was injured by the recoil of the gun herself and everybody went to the hospital. So you know, if you do those things, if you do make sure that you're careful with the automobile, your pool is secure and your guns are secure, you know, you've taken care of the biggest risks to your kids. So you know, then you get to this notion of free range, which is, you know, an interesting idea that was first floated by Lenore Skenazy, I think her name is who published a book back when we were doing, you know, Dad Labs called free range kids. And she really floated this idea that, you know, maybe it's better for our, you know, carefully controlled, helicopter parent did overcooked kids to get some time on their own out in the world. And I don't know whether that's the popular sentiment right now or not. What I know is that, it seems to me that there is some linkage between that idea and privilege that if you, for better or for worse, if you live in a nice neighborhood, you are you feel like you're secure, you're in a place where it's possible to let the kids go roam free. Yeah, that's what's best for kids. But that's only possible if you have a certain set of circumstances. So you know, I think personally, free range, kids are an amazing thing. And my wife and I made the choice to raise our kids in a 400 acre boarding school campus, so they can fucking grow up like feral fucking hogs, like, out there doing shit, I don't even know, they're dragging garbage into the yard that they found on some trail and making it into a wagon. And they're building forts, and they're filthy. And they probably should be leech every day when they get home. You know, we very, we're very proud that we brought them and kind of recreated what felt to us like this very throwback childhood, where they could just disappear, you know, for a day, and that would be okay. And they would show up filthy and bloodied, and someone had gotten in a fight with someone else, and we'd kind of hose them down. You know, that's how it felt. Although we were constantly we're constantly worried. But ultimately, that is a that's a pretty big freakin privilege, right there. Yeah, for sure. Well, I feel like I want to espouse, you know, that it's so linked, that, you know, I think, I think the most humane thing to say is, create whatever opportunities for space for your kids that you can, that you're able to give in your circumstances, and know that kids grow in those empty spaces, in those spaces where they're, and that can have that can look like a lot of different things. A free range can, can can be small, it can be large, you know, you create those opportunities as as you can.
So it could be a community center, so may not be your neighborhood, but but it could be the family goes to a community center or a church, you know, YMCA, everybody can sort of go their own way. And you know, kids can play pick up basketball or whatever, whatever they want.
I think that's a great point. I mean, anytime that kids feel like they're in their own world, you know, and kids are very resourceful about creating that. That's what free range free range can be. You know, for kids, any moment where they feel like their imagination in their world is unbounded, is not restricted. And
yeah, I think that's what I liked about kids comments and you came up to Columbus when we were there and kids comments, there's one door, there's no other way out. So if the parents can, can guard that door, the kids can go anywhere through there. And they can do, they can do science, but they can just play with with these games that are around, they can do the bubble room. And and it's small enough that you don't feel like anybody's going to get to your kids that isn't seen by everybody.
So, and it was small enough that if absolutely necessary, you could yell your kid's name, and they would be hurt, you would be heard everywhere in that building.
Yeah. And that's true. Across the street at the comments, too, with that big climber went up to the three stories. Yeah, that's, that's true. That seems like a great environment. for that.
I'll say one. One other sort of philosophical thing, which is that your, as a parent, your worry is a boundary, you just have to be mindful that your worry is a boundary. And you sometimes have to let your kids play free range outside the boundary of your worry. And if they're always aware of your worry, they don't feel free. So there has to be some time. You have to find a way, in the way that you're communicating with them in what you're doing in your own world, to give them some freedom from your worry, does that make sense? I think that sounds really weird. But ultimately, your worry is a boundary. And for them to be free range. It's not about the physical space. It's like, I'm outside for a moment and free of all the fears and concerns that my parents have for me, and whatever that's that that's not necessarily physical space, it can sometimes be a psychological space.
I'll add to that with you know, your worry is a boundary. I think there there there comes an age, it's probably eight, nine, where, okay, you're worried that they're being crazy over on the playground or whatever, and that they're going to get hurt. Okay, so but you don't want them to not play. It's like, Okay, so then, for my neurosis, it's okay, let's take it the next step. What do you do, when you get hurt? Give them the preparation for that, you know, it's not going to be I told you, so it's going to be, Hey, I got hurt or someone got hurt, I need to get help, or whatever, you know, so that they're prepared for that rare outcome, or the outcome that I'm so scared about. They need to be prepared for it. You can't do that with a six year old. You know that? They're not gonna hold that in their head. Apparently she did. Okay.
She really did.
And I made her I'm like, wait, cuz she was telling this story. And it wasn't meshing with what our neighbor was telling us. Yeah. So I said, Okay, let's go. Take me on your adventure. And we went and we walked in the further we walked away from the house, the more I walked around the neighborhood like this going, Oh my gosh, open my temples going. Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. And you know, she was telling me things as she was walking. Yes. All two guys there and I just said, Hi, how you doing? And she kept walking in. I'm like, Oh, God, okay, okay. Oh, we saw people in the backyard because she came up the alleyway and they were sitting in the backyard. And the mom, I clearly the mom sitting there said, Yeah, I saw her earlier. I said, Yeah, she's taking me on her adventure. She went her solo adventure. She's walking me and she's like, Okay. And the girl told me later that yeah, oh, yeah. She She kind of asked, Hey, are you lost, and I just kept running because I was running the depth anyway, to give them that preparation that it will be okay. things might happen. Don't panic if things happen. If bad things happen, you know, again, you know, they're stranger danger and all of that, but you can't, I don't want to put that in my kid's head. I don't want it in my head. I don't want to put that fear in their head. Because you don't want them to go through life with that. Because it's so rare. And I don't know it's Yeah, this is gonna bug me tonight for after after we're done.
So what brought this up in my mind was Duncan again, two times in the last, I'm gonna say a month. He's wanted to he says, Okay, I want to go for a bike ride. I need to go for a bike ride after school. like okay, well, you need to stay, you know, used to be just on our block. And now we'll let him go a little bit, but we've got some really narrow, fast moving traffic streets, that you would not be able to avoid getting hit in You would end up in a ditch and nobody might find you, you know if so if he broke his leg, he may never get hurt if he screams out for help, or any of that sort of stuff, he has fallen on his bike and not had his phone to call us. Because he just didn't think about taking it with he takes it everywhere. But for some reason, when he goes on his bike, and he gets in a wreck, he doesn't take his phone with him. But it just happened that Deborah was was about half a block away, driving off to something and she saw him and was able to get get him. So he wants to ride and he's like, well, you won't let me cross church, but I really want to go to there's an elementary school that's just on the other side of that road. Well, why, you know, why do you want it's an elementary, it's the lower elementary school. So they've got kiddie playground, it's not nothing fun to do there. Why do you want to do that? Why just want to go there? Oh, thank you, you know, just don't go there. You know, there are other places to go. Or if you want to go there, I'll drive you. Well, I know. He says. And both of these times we uncover that he has told somebody at school that he will meet her, it's always a girl, and not the same girl. meet her at this playground. You know, that's that's a half a mile three quarter of a mile away. But he'd have to ride his bike on a dirt road and with with very rural ditches, and he would have to cross this really busy narrow street with lots of potholes, and it would be a rough ride. And Mike. Okay, so if you want to go there, I will take you, I don't have a problem with you doing this, but you you're not going to ride your bike and have this risk of getting there. I'm like so, so I'll drive you. When do you need to be there? I don't know. He says, so. I'm not sure you know, I'm not sure if he's hiding this from me. I honestly believe that he thinks he's gonna meet her there. You know, whatever, girl this is, you know, it's been two different ones so far. And yeah, it's it's bizarre. But it also turns out that he's gonna meet her there while schools going for that school. And like I said, this is the kindergarten through second grade school. And so he's gonna go meet a girl at their playground while school's in session, actually, probably during the pickup time. We're trying to figure out what's going on with that.
But, but he's, he's in middle school. Doesn't the elementary school get out before middle school? No. Now and he's in? He's in middle. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he kicked out first. Yeah.
Yeah. So it's, it's, it's bizarre. And and it's hard to unpack. And part of it, I wonder is, you know, have we have we given him this rigid structure that he can't do stuff that he feels like he needs to hide it? And all that? Is he embarrassed that he's going to go see a girl? But none of these things, you know, and then and then it gets to, is it elicit is the thing he's going there to do? Something that we wouldn't approve of? And I can't imagine what that would be. And so I don't I don't think that's it. But the more elusive he is with this, the more I think, what is going on.
So I would also say like, kids get to have secrets, and they get to have their own secret life. And they do that's part of being a kid, you know. And I think there's a, you know, there's a very interesting, like, again, talking about free range. Free Range is also about, you know, getting to have your own
secret life. And that independence.
Yeah, that they don't want. And that starts to happen when they're little, you know, that they have their own language, and they have their own codes, and they've got their home clubs, and they're off in the woods, and they're building a foot. You know, all of that is about learning who you are and developing your sense of self. So, you know, I think that's, that's key developmentally. And that I think it's one of the bigger, and it's a it's a conversation that's been greatly intensified in the digital age, you know, as your kids, you know, grew up, how much privacy are they permitted to have? And so this free range debate is one that's not only about, hey, did the kids get to ride their bicycles in the neighborhood? It's also about do they get to have their own device? And do they get to have you no ownership of that device? And what are the conditions in which you look at that device? I mean, all of this is, is related in terms of the free range parenting conversation. And, you know, in my opinion, that it's that kids need that, but that is a privilege. And if they show that they're not able to manage, you know, That free range. That's where we step in. But prior restraint. I don't think it's the best approach when it comes to that.
Yeah, it's a tough one. You got to do what works for you, your family, and you know, you know your kid better than anybody else and your environment. Sometimes Sometimes you wonder they're doing Oh, great.
I mean, I think parents have what if you really think you can control all of this, and you can really own and manage all of this, and you can get every danger from ever approaching your kid, you are living in a dream world, you're living in a counterfactual world, that you just, I just don't even know what to say you. The world is so complicated, and you have no idea. Ultimately, where the risks and rewards for your kids are going to come from, but your belief that you can control it is nuts. You're crazy. You think
you're going to learn and figure that out, and it's gonna hopefully it won't be painful when you figure it out.
And your kids are here to teach you that you are not in charge.
And so is that puppy. Oh, man. Thanks to the Nichols Dawson infoed families for giving us all these topics to share. Asked Dad Labs is produced and edited by me Ben Fogt and fote Media productions LLC. Like follow subscribe and share across the social media landscape. Wherever you find that labs. Talk to you next time.