8:20PM Jun 12, 2022
seeing who's here Ms. Gloria Hawkins is here, Ms. Jones isn't here... Mr. Ross is not back yet, Mr. Martin we're going to start by first taking a look at
today's agenda, getting the motion to approve it unless somebody sees something that we need to correct. Madame Chair, Yessir, I have a few items I would like to add to the agenda. Ok?
one will be a discussion around the topic of millennials.The next one would be the discussion about the Inspector General meeting. And the last one will be about board appointments. Board appointments? Yes.
That's a lot for this today's agenda.
What I understand is the general meeting, not the executive meeting?
I didn't mean discuss it but probably will following this at the General Meeting then I think it will happen and it will need to be discussed. I don't think this will be discussed on the General Meeting because it's not on the General Meeting agenda. I can bring it up as a person...they want it being addressed.
Well, let me just start by saying that there are certain items right now that I cannot address. Ok? That's all I'm going to say about that. So, as far as today's agenda,
two minutes or less the question
There is a motion on the floor, we are not in discussion yet, so don't get into discussion until I have a second. So I'll make a motion to add those three items to
the agenda, can you please repeat those three items again?
a discussion about millennials. The discussion about board appointments, a discussion about meeting with the Inspector General and what happened with that
and I'll second that motion.
Alright, you've heard the motion. All in favor of adding those three items to the agenda. Please
Madame Chair, you're in discussion now. I think Ms. Gloria had a question. She had a question.
Just a second. Very broad. If you could explain this meeting on millennials. I think the way you framed it is like in the greater body a discussion on millennials. Can you define?
So there was an article that came out last week in Saporta that quoted our president speaking about Millenials. And also there have been comments made in other Executive board meetings that have been very critical, negative leaning towards ageism towards millennials, that it needs to be addressed. Also you, Madam Second Vice President had also made disparaging comments on Millenials
Tell me when and where...(ok, alright) No, no, no when..and where he's gonna get documented was when and
where I can do the bit easily to say have said they don't know what they are doing or
I'm so guarded on those kinds of issues because I don't want somebody like absolutely guarded on those issues. Don't call names. Don't Don't do it. No, no, no, no. Wrestling,
Mr. Mr. Hunter. Please. We have work we need to do. We've allowed the motion on the floor. And we're going to the vote on the motion. We will have discussion on your three items. When we get down to I guess the appropriate place would be under appointments, board appointments. Is that okay with you is Mr. Hunter? That's fine. Madame Chair. All right. You've heard the motion. All those in favor of adding these three items to the agenda, please raise your hand all those opposing please raise your and anybody abstaining?
All right. So those items will be discussed when we get down to the board appointments. Other than that, is there anything on the agenda that needs to be corrected or amended? In any way? Madame Chair you just approved the agenda. Can I get a second?
No, we approved with with the extra discussion. Oh, yes. Okay. I'm sorry. There's absolutely no one shall I'm looking at something else.
Okay. All right. The agenda that I guess I'm sorry, this
one change will I be able to... Would we be able to add my name? Next to the transportation on your APAB committees Okay. We
will discuss that when we get down to transportation. Thank you. All right. The next item on the agenda is proposed agenda for this coming Saturday's meeting. Mr. Martin, I did receive your email yesterday with those three resolutions on it. Are they first reading or how are you proposing them?
We discussed this in committee and decided just to send them to the body or whatever. I think in the past when we've had things for first reading, they've actually been the topics of discussion. And not just 'y'all read this'. And if it is going to be 'y'all read this' then could you send out an email and have it be a business item
well, you know, we're gonna send them out. Anyway, to give them an
opportunity to read me there's there's nothing There's time sensitive so they can be handled any way you see fit. Well, that's a lot of help. Well, none of them have been before the body for first reading before.
All right, let's do them as first reads. Given that send them out in time for them to have time to read them before the meeting. But they do need to have an opportunity to read and discuss them.
Madame Chair are these the resolutions on the agenda? Madame Chair? Yessir. I did want to add one other thing since we talked about earlier
possible budget presentation talks about budget for 2022-23. We can...when you say budget, increase the APAB overall foundation...funding for APAB. Increase the budget for APAB.
Leah, am I correct? That that is already gone in. No. New budget meeting was last
week right? Yes, our budget period was on the Tuesday the seventh. The council has not voted on the budget yet. Those who are just hearing this and we think that hearings continue until...
was fine. It was Thursday the last one. So the hearings are done. But that doesn't mean it's too late to make a recommendation on the budget. And by the way, sorry, Madame President. If I may... a as a continuation of the earlier conversation. I wanted to also add that even once the budget is passed, that doesn't mean it's too late to give input. So that was a response to your question about whether it was too late. Even if after it's passed. It's still not too late. The money is the money. It's just an allocation. Exactly. Yes, sir. Madame Chair? Yessir? I have a question about the first reading process. I think we've covered that in a few different ways. It's supposed to make you reread the paragraph markers using...at the very bottom where there's the "therefore". But I quote we'll give a brief description of the resolution using "therefore" then at the meeting do not have discussion until we're voting in the next meeting. Is that the process?
Essentially what we've been doing recently is sending them out to everybody and giving them an opportunity to read them when they come to the next APAB meeting. We do a brief overview of them. And then they're actually voted on at the following APAB meeting. And that gives them an opportunity to tell the committee that's proposing them any changes that they feel need to be made and give them opportunity to work on them.
is it possible if we can do like a brief description of what it is on our resolution? only reading the parts that's actually... action that we want to be taken or to prepared to take? And then if there are any comments or changes that you send to the committee, and then we don't have discussion on it, because it's kind of groundless, to have discussion on it twice, but only voting once.
That's something that's
Madame Chair, may I intervene? based on this administration unlike previous, administration, bent or the 10 days out is during that period, that citizens are instructed that there's amendments or changes are given the they're given that they can reach out to the chair. So I think that's how it was a plan such that it would be an opportunity to view them comment and by the time we got to the meeting, folks, all minds were clear. They had that opportunity. Unlike any other time. In times past when you arrived, the resolutions were outside for the most part folks had not seeing them. This 10 day window to the NPU chairs disseminated to the citizens is the opportunity for them to vet
Yeah, I'm just talking about in terms of what's the process because I think there are times when we have to sepnd like 30 minutes discussing the resolution that we're not going to vote on until the next meeting.
what we'll do then, As I said, we do a brief synopsis of them. And I think in the past few months, I've asked the presenting chairperson to just do a quick overview of that resolution. So everybody will have an understanding as to what it is. But we don't have to read and discuss the entire resolution. However, if any of the members come to the meeting and they have questions about the resolution, since they've already had the opportunity to read it, then of course we have to answer those questions. That's the purpose of sending them
to them Ok. I mean, that's just not tradition of how to do a first or second reading. Ok. that's fine.
All right. Let's move right along as we were already starting out late
Madame President? Yes? The Committee on APAB last month passed a resolution so that this body can have hybrid meetings. So that should be added to the agenda. I just wanted to make sure that that just came up from last month. Ok.
a total of 4? Uh-huh, four. That will come before the body?
and this was one that was mentioned at last month's meeting, was discussed in committee, so it should be ready for a vote at this month's meeting around not yet written down process on a ... resolution.
The one that is time critical. We only get two absentee attendances before we are in violation of the Georgia Open Meetings Act. And CDHS has already used up one! If you believe that is the process. All right, so pleased to basics joint
transportation minister showing this
okay. So to my knowledge, I've not received anything from planning to show any changes recent changes to the delegates and alternates. So there's some function with the existing list at the meeting. APAB appointments on the best of their position. I contacted Mr. Donald's office to find out where we were with that. He is of course, the Mayor's Chief of Staff Mr. Dobbs did say that they are in the process of working on that and that Mr. Donnell should be getting back in touch with us sometime soon. See
Madame Chair? Yes sir? What is the "administrative" work session?
I'l explain that as we get down there, ok? Give me a minute. For the ACRB is my understanding that the What's Christie's last name? Peters. Miss Peters has submitted her resignation to the ACRB for Npus S-Z, I have not received anything from her yet. But that is what we are getting. So I guess the sort of ACRB will send something in writing soon. And I will try to reach her to see if she in fact is resigned. Beltline TADAC haven't had any reports or anything like that on that. And we still have one vacancy to go back to check the Public Safety Commission. All four of our appointees have been sure about this right. They've been in the background checks have been done, they have gone before committee and council and they should be the last you should be taking their oath.
In fact, next week. Then on ATAG III, of course is Stephenson is our appointee there and she's also the Vice Chair. She's been keeping us up to date on what's going on.
Now, the one problem that we do still have, as far as Public Safety is concerned is the names of the nominees from the five zone workgroups. Mr. Hunter submitted one name to me but that's the only one that I have received. So we're sending out a letter to the chairpersons next week, asking reminding them and asking them to send in names of their nominees. I'm not really certain how that's going to work work since like I said, so many of the precincts actually are in different NPUs but we have to get started on this in some way.
Madame Chair? Yes, sir. We have one more person in our NPU that expressed interest but because I'm nominated one, I was going to wait, do you want me to go ahead and send that one in?
well, go ahead and send me an email and even though there in NPU P, what are what other NPUs are in your precinct?
For us I believe it's P,R, Q, and there's a piece that keeps going back towards the West End. What is the other chairs for the ....The other chairs will have to consent? So they're..they're ok with it? So yeah, we can take action.
So I've been having discussions with NPUs about that process, but it was unclear to me with process we were going to take, which is fine. There was communication sent out via email, about the Public Safety Commission, explained it in that email. So I didn't want to kind of stir up to different processes, essentially, published in APAB Public Safety that would follow the public safety work actually follows the same mechanism of structure that the subcommittee that was proposed to sit on a site for last year. So we found that it was wonderful that those those workbooks kind of overlap. And so we started having conversations about an interesting thing in which they was asking questions about it. And actually, asked me to ask to as the person who was with the Business Association, so we changed it around since our election. To help them, find people
who also be the first recommendation of the same person for that person. There was a legacy in that position. So I just wanted to if we can formalize how we want to communicate working with the Public Safety Commission of influencing NPUs so they won't send out these messages.
May I? Chris, I think the bottom line is we've got five zones into those zones are comprised of multiple NPUs right now. There's 2,4,6,8 of us here, if each of us make it a mission to go back to our NPU chair and say, listen to me to get together with the other NPU chairs in their zone. And then to get to because we need to go to three people from this zone. So that's the simplicity of it. The simplicity of this technically six, but apparently five and six are combined. But the point is, as much of us in here right now, go back to our chair, and said Listen, why don't you speak to the other chairs in the zone because this urgently requested that those chairs get together?
What do you choose this committee, which is APAB Public Safety Committeee, and as you mentioned, to police
commission Now whoever is willing to because we only have one person right now, so however it's done, I don't think anybody's opposed.
I think I think again, that conversation was a part of a broader conversation. That's a small piece to it. I just want to make sure that you know, be on board we got it as an understanding of what's going on. So I think that's what he's gonna get to talk about an escrow conversation in an email for today. So there we have some direction for today. So when we walk out in time for for us here, but I think that's a conversation that we need to have.
I think the urgency has been ceded. I've spoken to my NPU Chair. He is overwhelmed. Like most of us- what zone? three. Three? which makes up at least three NPUs, some believe that parts of one may also be in Zone... The point is, I've spoken to him and I don't think he's made one move. Because it's so many other things. So I think the urgency now is probably a lot with folks are in that position. It just haven't stopped to do I
find there's an opportunity to actually resolve this yesterday by APD going to apartment complexes with Councilmembers. There's opportunity to seize the opportunity.
I think it's a collaborative effort all of the NPU Chairs agree... that we
Well, I thought that was what was going to have got to happen, but I found out recently that like the chairpersons in my particular NPU, we communicate with each other all the time, but I found out that there are several of communities... NPUs who don't communicate with the other chairs. So that went down the tubes Okay, now here's where I am now. Because we gotta get this done. I'm for sending an email to every NPU chair and saying send to APAB, the name of one of your residents that you know that will attend these meetings will be there on time will participate and we don't have to We won't be appointing somebody just for the sake of name. So when they send us those names, that's where we as a Board have to get to work with go through them based upon what where they live if they live in that zone and try to get as many diversified people to sit to this board as possible. I don't think that a first plan of basket the chairs to do is gonna work. I'm learning every day that a lot of people have taken these volunteer positions and had no real idea as to what the work would be and how much work it would be and all of the emails all of the writing all of the meetings, and a lot of them are withdrawing so I'm going to ask you all to think about it. But at this point, my solution to this is to send every chairperson an email, saying you send to APAB the name of one of your residents that you can rely on to participate on your precinct's Workgroup.
Madame Chair, I want to use this opportunity to craft the email..if you would...you would use the opportunity to ask the Chairs to send their public safety representative
the names the name
and name but the same goes for representatives. One thing to know is that we have policies and values as well, in those pieces frequently asked also as for a specific person now those people are asking for the recommendation from the NPU, but also utilizing your public safety representative that you should have active committees that every investor and this is critical necessary to help spread the word. Ok.
So while we already on this. Let's talk about our committees. And I guess Rasheen This is where we'll discuss those issues that you brought up effectively...as you see we have the same working committees, education, transportation safety bylaws. But we don't have anybody in utilities. Give me a second here. Okay. First of all, I'd like to ask this executive committee for permission
to have every one of our active committees. Again, those are education, transportation, safety. And we're bylaws is not active, it's more administrative. So our active committees, I want to ask support to allow me to put those committees under the direct supervision of the Committee on counsel. Now, let me tell you why. Mr. Hunter has already alluded to it. There are some aspects of his request that I cannot discuss at this point. But I have been getting calls on my work phone, on my personal phone and private emails with people all around the city wanting to know 'what is going on with APAB?'. They of course are reading the articles in Peach Pundit, they're reading the articles in what is that the Saporta Report? What am I doing with this thing? And they have you know that I don't have a problem with that, because it's quote unquote, journalism, and people have the right to read and write what they want. However, when you have been appointed to a board for a municipality, you do not have certain rights. Okay? I don't have certain rights even as the chair and as such I have been getting the calls, the emails, even on my office phone from departments that this city about articles that are being written about APAB. Now I had planned not to even discuss this, and I can only discuss it to a certain point. But you all know that I work at a law firm. But you don't know who Anne Elizabeth Phillips really is. So today I'm going to let you know. I have been in administration since I was 16 years old. When I went to the military, I started out in intelligence because of my administrative experience. I have worked with all ages, all races, all sizes, all colors of people. And not one organization where I was in charge, even in the military. Have I had the kind of foolishness that I've had in the past three months here on APAB. Now, my personality I don't try to stifle anybody's anything. Because what you do with your life, that's your business. What I do with my does my business but when you start trying to hurt the organization that I am in charge of. We got problems. And when I get calls from people in the mayor's office that I hadn't even talked to in years, okay, that you got to do something about this. Well, first of all, why are you saying I have to do something about it, we got a whole legal staff. So if the legal staff is not doing anything about it, why should I have to do something about it. Because, you know, I'm not about to jeopardize anybody's first amendment rights. However, when you start trying to refer the organization name is mine on the top of the oh yeah, we got a problem. But I am one of those people who believe in doing things legally. So yes, I requested a meeting with the
Inspector General do for practicing attorney... the Inspector General. And the reason I did the request is whenever you are a member of a board of directors, whether it is a for profit or nonprofit, or whether it is under a governmental agency. You have an obligation to that board. And one of the obligations is not to do any harm to that board. To the improprieties of the same can actually get you in a world of trouble. And yes, like I said I do everything legally and I made a point to make a meeting, have a meeting with the inspector general to find out what the impropriety, improprieties actually are, and what their recommendations are. Now you want to talk about millennials Yes, I did say that these millennials, I'll repeat what I said because it was recorded in accurately in that Peach Pundit article. I did say that these millennials think they can write anything that they want to in these little newspapers. And they do have the right to do that. That is exactly what I said. But...If they are on these boards, they don't have that right. And we need as members of those boards. We need to have a way to protect ourselves from any possible litigation I'm sorry, any possible litigation as it relates to anything that they have said, Okay. Now I know that we got some very clever people and they're careful not to use names when they do yesterday, what's his name Ruchs R-U-C-H how you pronounce it? Over at Saporta... he writes this article about the South River steering committee. Well, I live right there near the South River. The lake Charlotte is in a community right behind is in my NPU he names it he goes through this whole thing about who's been appointed to this steering committee where he makes a special effort to say that Anne Phillips is one of the appointees to the steering committee. Well, he's right. I can't say anything about that because he's right. Well, he also made a point to say that. Identify me for being PUC. And when I would just say that I'm also on the public Safety Stakeholder Advisory Committee. I haven't appointed myself to anything if this city appoints me to something, they have a reason for doing it. Because they know that I'm going to do the work, and I'm going to do it above board and legally. So that being said, Yes, Mr. Hunter. When you are I've been where the Millennials are, and I probably was just as eager to show the world what I could do. But people you are appointed to a municipal board. Now whether you understand the importance of that. I strongly recommend that if your family has a you have counsel, or you have somebody that you have on retainer for legal questions, I strongly encourage you to speak to them, to ask them the importance of that
there are aspects of this situation that I cannot discuss with you at this point. And I'm not. But if you have any other questions for me, I will be happy to answer them
Well, I'll speak just because I don't know for sure I was going on but I am one of those Millenials.
Millenials. So it was not aimed at Millenials... let me get that straight. It was not aimed at Millennials I was talking about two Millenials when I made that statement.
So obviously I'm not ....
Am I correct Mister, Mister Hunter? I'm sure you read the article was I'm not talking about two specific Millennials when I was when I made that statement?
So Madame Chair I did just read the article I also listened to the meeting as well. So I heard you by I heard you verbatim. And so I have also heard you speak disparaging about millennials in the past. So maybe this time you're talking about those two, but you have made general negative comments broad comments about
Millenials, well you all make general broad comments about those of us who are not Millenials. Have you heard me do that? You probably have too. No, have you heard me?
No, you haven't because I haven't done that. I understand your point, but what I wanted to also bring up was was also talked about you being in honest about BACE boards. The way I found out that you were going to have some meeting was because you talked about it and this meeting so you introduced APAB, at this other BACE board meeting and the issue that was going on at APAB wasn't the topic, that wasn't the agenda that wasn't what was going on
I have not read all the articles, sweetie. I'm talking about the meeting. if you stay with me in the reason that was brought about to me so if you've really hold the other articles, then you understand why that was brought up at the meeting.
And so, also, you know, I've also told you before as parliamentarian that we're not supposed to make unilateral decisions, you should not go to legal. We should not be going to... officers should not be going to the to the inspector general, on behalf of this board without us being aware and I'm not talking about the executive, I'm talking about the entire APAB because the executive board doesn't have the power to vote to tell you to do that.
I do have the power to do that. Mr. Hunter, you
do not you've been doing that you're by yourself. And the results of and any consequences of that meeting can impact all of us. We're all members who have the same rights of this board.
If I may? So I want to start with kind of something that's a core topic. I have been on many meetings...dozens and dozens of meetings from NPUs to neighborhood associations and regularly and I mean regularly. If we need to go back and watch the videos we can there are regularly disparaging remarks against not only millennials, but young people and also renters on a regular basis. And this is something as a renter, as a Millennial, as someone that is car free. That are very sensitive to me. I have heard chairs I've heard neighborhood presidents here in over yonder make many discouraging columns comments about renters, young people and millennials. And I think that it is a conversation in itself to really have and to be addressed maybe right now. Moving forward, we can no longer keep praising homeowners or praising those that have stepped up to the plate and have been do and have been contributing to the city of Atlanta for X amount of time that is wonderful at the same time. We have to have the respect and understanding that there are many young people that do want to be involved in APAB and neighborhood associations and NPU meetings. But they're not because not only are they reading these articles, but they're hearing and they're on Twitter talking right now about what's happening at these meetings. And it's not a good conversation to be very honest. It's not so without question. Yes, there has indeed been many on a regular basis. Comments about renters, young people and millennials regularly. So we can't sit here and say that that's not true no one's blaming any one person. This is an overall issue across the city across every neighborhood across every NPU that really and truly does need to be addressed head on. It cannot be allowed anymore. And when we hear that at NPU meetings when we hear it at neighborhood association meetings, it is for the chair of that meeting to stop it when it happens each and every time and that has not been happening. And again, if we need to replay these meetings because they're recorded, we can do that. I think that's a great idea for us to watch ourselves back again. But without question and moving forward, no longer can that be allowed and it really does need to be addressed. Thank you.
I want to add, because you know, you know again, some of these things I'm unfamiliar with but I am very familiar with the most recent conversation that I've shared in an email communication, one that I thought was in good faith and trying to help move us forward to solve some issues with me I was satisfied jumping systems in that millennials because I took the time to respond to an email. There was sent to everybody about the tone of what was being said and the misinformation that was being put out to shape the conversation to make me look bad. Personally, as if I did some things that was not true. Speaking of timing of a BACE organization when I asked for the information, I was ignored and so the... I can only do as much you all allow us to do, I think been spent a lot of time on these things. There are things we can do internally, offline, especially about a personal feeling towards somebody or something made them in taking out of context. But we don't seem to have those opportunities because I think that the spirit of what is being spoken about in the news right now is the talk and we go and we go tone deaf speaking those things. Personally, not about me. I don't because I don't know I'm not a reporter. So in that way, that cannot be directed toward me. And as an I initially thought it was about me. Personally based on when the communication went out but I just think that we have some work to do. To secure and we'll do something about doing the work of APAB there's a lot of things over the last 17 years without going into city being actively engaged that I've seen that I'm here personally, because I've seen good people do great work, but because of other things that we're not able to get around as community and we only sell ourselves short. So I just want to hopefully we can get some resolution to this and the spirit of what's being said is actually being heard and digested that I don't like being and not even knowing what's going on because it's kind of going over my head around because this indirect conversation person directly as I think that we all can self reflect off each other kind of address internally even for going out externally To try to air our business it's just bringing... what it seems... it seems to me right now. Is a lot of our stuff now permeating, and I'm sorry they haven't handled hopefully they'll read it and get to know me because there may be some something to them we can learn from or something that we can do to mitigate those things happening because again, sometimes opinions like news and the news often is to make room sometimes and it is for this office, a lot of times a lot of liberties. So we have to be as a board, figure out what how we're moving what we're doing and how can we learn from those people who are not doing it? You know what I mean? For me you're just chastising me, then teach me. and you're not guiding me and either you're only criticizing this token so therefore, there is a learning process to to move me forward now like arguing with people. Now I'm ...
Madame Chair, may I? to let me just respond to first of all, Chris, I have not- never scolded you scolded you- even when you made me mad enough to do so. I tried desperately to make you understand that. You have a certain gift of pulling people together. When you're working with the various communities trying to do the public safety events or whatever. My issue with you is not your age or anything like that in mind, you should know at least about their age. I was talking about a particular action. But now as it relates to you. You don't listen to me. and I'm not trying to be your mother or anything like that. But when I tell you something, is like it goes right off the top of your head and you still gonna to do what you want to do and I can't do that to be honest. So we haven't had that conversation. We haven't had much. Well, I mean just even in your emails to... Well, but that's different the reason why
I send the emails because we don't have much conversation and you don't give much guidance. And so therefore the company keep coming to you about certain issues. It is like Well, let me just email it to you maybe that you you want more formalize things and
it's always when we only had one issue that I had one issues now I did have one other thing that has not been resolved. And that was the thing about the logo on various advertising that you were doing with the various communities and using the city's logo. Those are the only things that and then the situation with the Public Safety Commission doesn't
always speak into that and how about conversation? I agree. There's only two issues that we've had some conversations but I'm saying that I was shocked again, first to sort of meeting this and heard about meetings like, it's about me because at the end of the day, how can I put it in writing? And I responded to it. It's sort of like Anne you're doing it for me because this is not the spirit of what I came on. And it's not like it's the person who gave this conversation. So therefore when it came out if you get this maybe you learned some like, here's some updates to that because now he's following the progress that I'm telling you, 'hey, I'm working with the Police Foundation working..we're trying to solve for those NPUs for those work groups because what we are doing is definitely in a lot of things that we've talked about and fixing talked about in the community. So we integrate space this this work together to get things done, and that's my business for me and my speaking about the rest of you know, we haven't had much time, but ideas to that particular piece, have an issue with that particular piece. And I've voiced that because again, that wasn't the spirit in which I wrote the email to you, which is 'hey, I'm working on these work groups, figuring out how this stuff is laid out. So Miss Gloria is pointing to this very, complex groups and working groups, and how can this work for everybody? And how can we give guidance to NPUs? Who're having some concrete questions. And so here I'm doing the work with no one is helping me a so I'm going to release the mic, but that's...I want to bring it back. So
I'd like to...if you don't mind... do the one that everybody said chance to speak. I'm just completely dismayed with what is going on in this room right now I've been going on for the last two months. I came to APAB five years ago, because it was just something to do I was had I was in a non functioning NPU. Something like just non functioning. So I learned that this organization came in sit there and it was antics and chaos beyond measure there was a group yelling at the leader. The leader didn't seem to be organized, no prior dissemination of anything if you get there you're lucky if there are resolutions and agendas out there. It was just something but I come in because of something because there's a lot of people in this room these are all the NPUs in the city. And occasionally, there was a glimmer of information that came from a presenter, but that only went on for a year. My understanding is that leader at that time that take them over for someone that they pass to them came Debbie, Debbie was a one woman show lots of hard work she did it all. I will say that there was not what we have now. When we came in January. Greatest applause I had for now we're going to get all of the information in advance of the meeting. Everybody will have it. It will it will keep the meetings from being so long. Folks will have seriously I've never even read the resolutions. Then with this pandemic, we all can go to conferences, the Zoom conferences, have learned so much about Zoning than just the framing and seeing the different personalities in the writing. So I guess the point I make is I it's we're a work in progress. Absolutely. That about the greatest progress I've seen has been since January. What is that? Getting out the information so that when folks come into the room Not wanting to understand or assimilate? Allegedly, everyone has based on a process. We're all volunteers. We're all volunteers. I'm feeling at this point. I don't know when I come in the room. What's gonna be next. I don't know where the crosstalk is gonna be. I don't know. It's not like we're friends at all. There's something in this room right now that we shouldn't have. We don't have to go into his house and eat and you know, we don't have to do that. But there shouldn't be amiable feeling amongst us like we're different each of us, but see what value we bring to the table. I can't comment on what no I did. I wasn't privy to the legal meetings being cited where and it made certain when I speak. I'm guarded, very guarded. Why? Because I do not want something upset to be misinterpreted. I typically speak to what I believe the rule is widely the rule the rule is irrelevant, but why I applied to such and the reason I'm guarded is because, again, everybody's got their opinion. I don't want to offend anybody. My mottos is winning friends and influencing people, but not only being fake being me, but every time I look at someone, I'm trying to figure out what works. What do you bring to the table that works for the rest of us. So if I leave you with anything, this has become really hard. I'm in a well run NPU. I've learned a lot here have been able to discuss legislation like the Faroki legislation never participated in such a process clearly had all these mentors explaining and getting the different opinions on why at work. It has made me invaluable in my movement ahead. No, no, we just wanted to do but just my movement ahead. And that's what I'm about. And then the scoring
absolutely mature. I started a new life. Two years ago, my husband passed my husband 40 years and suddenly now my narrative became all of the people in my community that showed up to take care of me for the last two years. So that's where my heart is. That's where I am. So I don't know if I'm going to be able to stick around here. If I feel like we're not trying to figure out what that person's weaknesses are but kind of keep them at bay while we focus on what they bring to the table. So back to Rasheen I'm not sure you may be able to something vis a vis my presence, but I assure you I don't call names. Even if I think that your behaviors off either I don't really look at the person or look at the behavior, whatever behavior we bring into this room. It's all of our experiences, our exposures, our it's all of the things we're exposed to in and I've learned all this and it's I don't call names I refrain from I think the last thing that spoke because typically I've been up here during the time that you've known me. The last thing that I spoke within our last meeting. It was a reference to being in an npu whereby the people who come in fleetingly some people are dedicated. A handful, maybe, for the ones come in and they see the cross talking and arguing and carrying on. They don't come back. So that that has always been what I I witnessed, so that's what I'm praying for. So I don't know what you heard, but I would never call you or anybody else a name in this room. I don't categorize people. I don't categorize people I stay away from them when you can. The only time you meet me in person this was last month and I don't think I've ever had a chance to speak because I was the recording secretary for the last two years. You don't get to speak. You're buried in those minutes. So I again, I'm not sure where you're I don't know, if you're pinning it to me because of my, my I don't know.
So, I can talk to you offline. Because my whole point of bringing this topic up was not to get into the weeds of personal things that have been said, I can tell you very specifically about who you said it about who the person was, and what it was. Why don't you say it right now? That's not the point.
No, no, no, if you're going to do that because you brought what legal concept, you opened the door. You have opened the door. So actually
we both got to APAB at the same time, actually. And when you got here your leader that was ready to you was a millennial. And you talked about him a lot. I remember.
I remember. That cannot be true. I remember. That cannot be true. You said he was so busy... the current one...I said when you got here to APAB. Ok, I think you're not right....Gen Xers maybe, but not Millenials... I'm sorry that we need to move on. But something happens like that, but we open up the door. That's not even
accurate that's not...that was something that was a personal observation is..I told you, I can talk to you one on one...Not right now
no, but when you open that up and say, Wait, I'll just put because I want to help her. I don't want her to feel that way. So that's what a lot has happened in this room. I feel like it was designed. There was a max of this is when you speak it should be designed to to be able to design for that person hearing to come up in their understanding and then it should not be about you. So when they hear it they come up but they hear more the truth versus....
...people that please let's move on with the meeting. No, let's not, Okay, I altered the agenda and you didn't let me talk about what...Ok. that's what I'm saying. Let's move on. You've had three days that you had the agenda.
I didn't say anything about the appintments, I are asked for this particular agenda. And I think that Jereme hit the nail on the head is that there has to be a level of stakes about what everybody brings to the table. And no matter when they was born, that shouldn't matter for him to a certain task, genre, or role. So keep it about the job in the role. Now, whenever this person was born. Let's have that mutual respect.
Alright, aknowledged and accepted. All right. Now your next point, the next topic that you
So then, but the next topic that I brought to...was.. the meeting with the Inspector General. The issue that I have with that is that, you know, there were several meetings that we've had, where you could have brought this to this body right. But instead you chose...
I could not to do that. I don't mean to cut you off, but I could not do that. Because I had to first find out whether there were some improprieties. I just couldn't make accusations I needed to find out first. You could have done it the same way you did... Keep in mind, this is a board. All right. And I can't say 'Well Rasheen did so and so Rasheen did this or Rasheen did that?' If it's something that impacts the entire board? Now if Rasheen did something to say something to me that's a different thing. I can deal with it right then. But this is about the entire board and the mere fact that everybody in the city was reading it and wondering what the heck is going on with APAB. And when they start telling me you have to do something about this. I don't do anything unilaterally. You all know that even when I had the authority by the under the bylaws to do so like you don't I do not do that. But in a situation like this, I had to get some kind of legal guidance and as the chair of this board, that is my right when I need legal guidance. That is why we have the backup the support boards I'm sorry..the support departments from the city that is what they're here for. And so before I even open my mouth about it I really wanted to give them an opportunity to tell me what I should say and not say you all insisted upon getting up on me today making sure that I did address this. So yeah, I'm requesting it.
Madame Chair, if I may for a second I was
I was cut off shortly. That will be perfect. And that will make sense, except for you brought it up our whole nother board at a live meeting that was recorded in which you said, verbatim: "I have a question. There's more of a personal than anything because I'm familiar with an issue with the Atlanta Planning Advisory Board. Somehow another millennials that are asking them for their advice. What can we do? You chose to do that at an unrelated board at an unrelated meeting in the open instead of coming to the board. That is impacted by that- to make a decision about that. That's the way I felt. Madame Chair... was a formal meeting with the Inspector General because you already talked about that at that meeting. So therefore, you didn't have to wait. You chose to wait. Because if you happen to you want to send anything at that border
No. No. As a member of... That was not your right... as a member of...that was an abuse of power. No, it was not. It was. No it was not. so as a member of that board. And they had already told us early on in the meeting, that the issue was there. We had to deal with it that night. And yeah, perhaps it was a personal name when I made that statement, because I'm gonna be very honest with you now. I was the one to ask this person to take literally I encouraged this person to take this position on this board because I saw in her what perhaps the previous administration didn't see in her.
and Madame Chair you're moving from the issue of the topic
No I'm not. No I'm not. I am saying that yes, I was upset. Because every time I read something that said 'APAB' and 'the board on which I serve' whatever and then all of these criticisms about APAB. Now you just jumped on me. Why did you not have that person why did they not come and say something to me, where they wrote all of those things about us? I'm sorry.... It was the same thing. You don't know if I did....
I think that the...so I will have this is my first time hearing about any of this today. I have not read an article and I'm on Twitter a lot. I'm very active. I have not read an article seen an article. I know nothing about what's happening today. So for me what I would say is I would like to just be more in the loop about what is even going on. If this was whatever issue is happening right now. I wouldn't assume that the chairs or the executive committee would maybe at least know that this issue was even occurring. So that maybe there could have been maybe an emergency conversation before anyone went anywhere talking to any other parties or boards or whatever. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm only speaking from what what I personally likes seeing moving forward, which is if there is any type of larger issue that is maybe making anyone here upset, rather it's an article or something that someone has said I would rather that we communicate amongst us here amongst the executive board. So first discuss before we go out and talk to anybody me personally, I don't....I think all information is public information we should be remain very transparent and everything that we do so I'm not necessarily for backroom meetings or keeping everything in house. But what I do believe in is ensuring that we have if we can have one unified voice, or at least we're having the conversation here before we're going out and talking to other parties on moving forward. That's what I would like to see happen.
And I was thinking...Hearing the same... they're gonna say we're between environment. So....
the question I raise...is when is communication with OIG privileged? When...under what conditions is communication with the....
...With the board. This board is one voice. You're the majority of this board.
That's a question I'm genericly ask to everybody. I answered you. No, I don't need you to answer everybody has to answer for themselves. Choice. I'm raising a question...I'm raising the question and I'm not asking you to do but ask the question to yourself and see if you can go find the answer. When is it a privilege member oftentimes that OIG isn't confidential. The question is, the question is whether it's a breach of competence of this board for going to the OIG. That is the question. Yes. Your opinion? Yes. That's your opinion. Of course. My
take is it would be very well claiming community and actually start to acknowledge... This is obviously going to speak on amongst you know, personal pieces that is that I'd be my ultimate meeting with everybody to communicate you know what I mean in a meeting even more. So nobody responded. And so I asked that we have a meeting. Can we have a meeting about this? Because one like I don't have the time to do it, either. I don't have to do some other things. But can we talk about this because maybe there's some misunderstanding. And so I can only speak on my hand which I noticed is quite noticeable that directs me, per se. But in the spirit of everything's that at what point do we start to have more effective communication with one another? And we all feel how we feel about certain things and we think that we learn things let's talk about this this lesson I learned from another let's take a situation let's take this learn from it, and moving forward. Because again, there's form expectation, investment, I hear Miss Gloria, and we've got to keep doing this our stuff here. What am I doing here? And so in the end of the day, this is where leadership like I'm here to help to help our leadership and we're here to help lead. I'm here to help set examples and I don't really want to I really don't like a lot of excuses about these because we always had the ability to do what it is that we used to do without using chosen by our NPUs, which is how we got here. So there's there's this expectation that is a form of leadership that comes out of this body and I think just being in this building over the last 17 years as you can see this operation, and it wasn't always the best. And like you said, there has been some improvement, also about the bad that they have, this is a good thing to have. But it's also offset and we'll get into situations like this and I think this is nobody's going to talk about the NPUs on how who's responsible that's what we don't want to ignore because we have enough on our own. But what happens when we have our own conflict? How do we resolve that internally, to have the same spirit to say, Hey, this is what we're learning. This is what's going on here some models that have been presented that we've come across whether you're the victim of it, while a person has said you matter, or not, I think that at that point, that frustration may have been put in what saying, This is what's going on? Let's have a discussion about it. You know, I mean, and I get it, sometimes we don't always make the best decisions. And, again, we're not here to criticize we're here to say, here's where we are, you know, I mean, this is what we heard instead of having back channel conversations. We're bringing it to the body, you know, I mean, I think that's the most constructive thing that we can do as as as a board is to bring it to the people who are very challenging and even equality of rights to make sure I can move forward with this however y'all want to see fit, but I'm glad that at least at least from my end, because I felt some type of way. I put it out and explain to all the leaders around this table about the problems openly. And nobody said nothing.
Let me just ask you a quick question. This is for those of you and Rasheen because this is something that I need to know. And I guess it has to do with the type of work that I do and the type of work that I've done. When you asked me a question and this was for both of you when you asked me a question, I answered your question. You did not like the answer that I gave you. So then you started these email trains in which you sought sympathy from anybody that would give you sympathy and then they hopped into the email and trainings, and you got all of these emails going. And I answered your question from the first email. Now, there are gonna be times that I asked you things that you answer that I don't like, but I leave it alone. In both your pieces, and I know what both of your issues are on you asked me a question. I responded to your emails. I answered the question. Now. You didn't like the answer. So and because you didn't like the answer that gave you you. Like I said, you started these email trains that you started seeking out people who sympathize with you and they just promulgated the email trains. Then on a lot of times, not just in this board, but in your mind where people are going to not respond the way you want them to respond. But does that mean that you keep the battling back and forth?
so so... So for my case, I didn't. and then and then you want to respond you want to the truth. So the truth of the matter is that everything is that the things that were mentioned was absolutely untrue. And I challenged it. And yes, I did. And because again, this has been going ongoing for months. So it's not your first time hearing about... it was true, but
You did correct me on one error when I said that you did not submit your bio until March but it actually was January 17. So but that was the only thing of that. Well, that's the basis of
it. But that's the basis of your response. No it wasn't. No it wasn't. Madame President, even from even from the council level because you say that a decision was made, who received it? who made that decision?
Listen, I give you to give to you all what they give to me
Madame Chair, Madame Chair... I just don't agree. And it's okay. We can agree to disagree. I don't it was bad on purpose when error. There was an error that was that was not valid. So therefore it shapes the opinion of what other people make of this. But that's not true...Madame President...it's not true... You just said that you paint the picture has been submitted in March and ....
I said you submitted it in March, but it did you did actually send it January 17...but we had already talked though... but the legislation.... and I told you that in an email. that it had already been done. ...Ma'am...know, it was it was it was redone. It had already ..... Listen, listen, it had already gone to committee committee had already voted on it when it got to council council approved it on Feb 7th. Do you? Do you? Which means when you sent.... Madame President..You said your when you said your
Madame President, I talked to the council member, okay to sponsor the legislation, and I've been following the peace of business as well. I was talking to you about it plus was that what was going on the day because remember who said a citywide election, and it just went up and to go my own election. And there's a lot of things going on that talk to you as you entered. So coming in from election day, the
first thing that asked me when I got into office, Chris 'where is your bio?' because that's when you got into January versus March but you suggested..well I said that was an error...that you send it in January Chris it was six months late and
Ok this is no longer productive.
I asked this question in writing. Now we that we're here what I'm saying is I asked this question in email. So simply if I was to learn from it, and it wouldn't be a discussion today if you just simply reply with
and say that you did an error, even acknowledging your error when you acknowledge the fact that you acknowledged it. I
don't say back to you, they have sent you an email that I said I apologize. It was January 17th. So I sent it right back when you sent because once you said it was January 17 looked at my email, and I responded so I
hope so between that piece of asking when did I get elected... because it was voted on initially in May there anything in response for the spirit of that to become that legislation was .... in response to.... working the attachments which had go to ...Buckhead yet so therefore the original authors will sheperd Matt.. Councilmember Waites the opportunity because again of the Buckhead Task Force and I talked to representative... of Councilmember Norwood as well so I'm very familiar with the spirit and I'm just telling you, 'hey, Madame President, this is what's going on in Buckhead and going on with this legislation is what's going on with the Public Safety Commission they are charged with the final...of the final recommendation in terms of the training facility. This is an important..I kept, I reiterated that month after month. So I even reiterated that piece when I was going to work which to you and that's why I said the spirit of that was no different than what we talked about just simply saying
Well let's talk about it. I told you that I would ask her and I did ask her
so we saw it. So I'm some cool I think we learned from what happened. Again, I'm saying that sometimes it can be misleading. Some people take things that are personal, personal, which means my personal character will feel like it's under attack just like you felt when you responded it was your character and integrity. That you need is now dead set by some words that could have been miscommunicated or been... or not transcribing but you feel is valid. And this this that's when that's the that's that's the essence of what I'm speaking on the head. It was totally isolated from any other situation. And the only thing I'm saying is that we have to communicate and be intentional about what we're doing. And so that's why I'm and I'm only doing it not for me, I don't care about being on the board or the commission, it just means more work. But the work that we're doing is the integrity of the connectivity to the work in this way often absent and when they're a little bit absent and we're being responsive that means less close to the facts on what's going on because wasn't there. We tried to get somebody to go back because he wasn't there. And I'm trying to help change the face of that right now. We don't mean it's just my contribution. Doing what you all asking me to do was to take on a committee but I'm cool now. I put mine on paper saying thank you for your leadership-that's everybody around this table. And thank you guys for your leadership, your willingness to come into this room on the opportunity to advance what we're trying to do as a community. Whether you're a civil servant and a ... or your person that does this here is paying taxes for us to continue y'all have a civil obligation. So that little part that I serve on...that little 10-15% is like tithing...that's my 10-15%...because I try to give back
Jereme, I just wanted to say this to you, you've literally come on, guess maybe. First 90 days was not like this. All of what we're seeing here is really erupted in the last 60 days. Started with email threads. What you see in this table now is not the last 90 days we're now just past the fifth month, so I just didn't want to leave with feeling like off the ground. This has been chaos and fire. It has not. And I think we're trying to pull it back in. Not sure what went awry. But some things have gone awry. But again, the first thing we're now got were the six month that came last month April and May it's it's gone in a trajectory I don't think anybody saw. let's see if we can pull it back in.
So Madame Chair I don't do anything to seek sympahty, I just want to make that clear because this isn't a personal for me. This is work. So anything that I take time to point, you know I'm very, I choose my words. I don't try to just email anything...... I sit on it. I think about it. And there are two emails that you have not responded to. One is from March and the other was from Jan 17th which suddenly requested all of us to respond to and I did. You told me I needed to address it in Executive Committee Meeting. It never was. And that's fine. That was something that you requested of us. So if you want address it or not, that's fine. That goes back to whether it was a Dropbox or Google or the things about the SOPs, you never, responded to that that was never addressed. And when I tried to do another meeting, we never got to it and I thought that was something that people didn't want to give you my suggestions on that. But there wasn't even a particular that I sent you didn't complete the entire board, not for sympathy, but for transparency to ensure everyone was aware of what I was communicating to you. There was going to be a third party in terms of what I said or how I said it, that's why I copied everybody.
So where do we go from here? Let's Forgive her. Where do we go from here? She's made some terrible mistakes. Probably none of us are exempt. Where do we go from here?
So in order to go from here as far as a level of mutual respect, because
you discern disrespect. No worries, I get that. So where did we go from here? Can we say what did we say the day that we leave out feeling like we're at a better momentum going forward? That's what I want to do.
That's what I do. But first, we have to acknowledge that there has to be things that were done, and that's fine. We can move on from there. It's out there, but also so I think that we need to get ready to take Leah up on her offer to get into some heavy strategic planning about what we want to do the next honestly four months.
Absolutely. But getting folks to convene is no easy feat, as we see. But absolutely.
What do you mean? The majority of us are here on Sunday.
That's true. This is I think the first meeting that we had of APAB.... We barely made quorum and I think there were 30 people down from so
most of us are here and that first thing also here now so I'm talking about the executive committee getting together to a strategic planning session. I think we have the people we need to make the commitment to so again, they will help us with that. How do we do it? We can send out a doodle, send out some dates
that. Absolutely. So absolutely. I just commented on...part of the reason why we're going.
this there is no there is no there is nothing for us to point at and say, "This is our goal". This is what we're working on. Let's all focus on that. So when we're getting instead of this, we're getting critics- that's what you are. And you are critiquing someone's work without giving them any forethought, any explanation as to how to fix you're a critic about the people who are doing things. Of course that's your opinion.
So I'm just gonna say that and moving forward there really has to be order in the meetings, right? So when talking over one another and cutting each other off, like let's really first and foremost get back to the the order of things and then moving forward. We do need to decide what we want to do. It's my opinion that APAB needs just a soft reset right now. The real reality is that most of Atlanta does not know what APAB is doing, what we're supposed to be doing, what it looks like, etc. So if you really want to start somewhere, tomorrow starting fresh, it's really it's the defining what exactly is APAB? What exactly are our committees, and it's letting the entire city know that once and for all, because, again, we didn't read these articles but from what I hear and also what I'm reading on Twitter, many people the narrative for APAB is being shaped by everyone outside of APAB at this point in time. It is for APAB to take back their own narrative and figure out what do we want to tell Atlanta we're doing? We are? Where we going? That's where we're moving forward. All of this. Back and forth and whatnot. There's there's been plenty of emails I'm sure you've seen that I haven't gotten responses to and I'm okay with that. So if you want to write your email, write your email if you want to follow up with it. Follow up with it. You see the person in person Hey, why don't you respond to my email but they're moving forward there is no forcing people to respond to your email there is no sympathy if you want to just send an email and CC people on it then do so it's a board full transparency...get right to it! CC the world if you want to! Make... let's normalize that being okay instead of people thinking you're trying to tell on them because you're ccing. There's no telling. It's just about being transparent. So again, moving forward right now today. It is for APAB to define where we are what we are amongst each other and with our committees, and then tell Atlanta what that is, because right now, our city does not know what we're doing.
Mr. Excuse me, Mr. Sharpe, thank you so much. And you brought me right to where the meeting's actually supposed to be today. First of all, I started talking about our active committees. That will be transportation. Education, safety and utilities, I guess, to a certain extent, not Committee on APAB that's more administrative. I need to know from you all which is going to be the first one. Here is the way we are supposed to be structured as committees. APAB is supposed to have a chair of each of these committees. Under those chairs, there should be a representative from every NPU with that committee. So if we're talking about public safety, then all 25 NPUs should have a person on the Public Safety Committee. If we had that in place now, I wouldn't have this nightmare about these what'd you call them? the zoning...?working groups. If we had that in place now we would have that because they will be meeting with us and we could work on so because we got this mandate that we do have to get these people to the work groups we're going to start with public safety. The next one is going to be transportation. Now. You sent us an email. I think shortly after you were appointed that I did not respond to ....but that's my fault. Okay? But the reason I didn't respond was not because of what you were saying. I did not like what you were saying but I don't have a thing against millennials. So I did not respond because I knew that I had not had an opportunity to send to you the goals and objectives of the Transportation Department. I'm sorry, the Transportation Committee and what we hope to accomplish between now and the end of 2022. So starting with a need to start though first, with public safety. Then you for and I have the goals and objectives written up for the transportation committee. Some of the issues at this point, that TSPLOST 1.0 we just voted on this thing that every one of those NPUS should have a representative at your meeting. And you as the Chair will discuss with them, what's going to happen with that money, where those projects are going to be and collectively follow along. Division... Vision Zero. We have not done anything as it relates to that. This G Dot has a camera system that everybody in this city can log onto to see exactly what's going on in their areas, however, is going to take some training so that as the chair of transportation when you get those 25 NPU chairs in your meetings. The first thing you're going to do is get on the camera and show them how to manipulate it and how to use it so they can take it back to their NPUs and show their citizens how to avoid an accident because it's all this accident here. Go this way. There are so many aspects of transportation. I think after a ....the email that I did send back to you. Even the Savannah Port. That was a major issue a few years ago when they got that started. Atlanta now is suffering because we don't know what's going on. You could go to the Kroger in Buckhead and all the shelves are stocked. You go to a Kroger on the south side and the shelves are almost empty. And you ask the manager Why is it you aren't don't have such and such? Well, we can't get the shipments in or whatever. So how can they get them in Buckhead? We're not getting we can't get them down here.
I even had one manager to tell me that, you know, the freight hasn't come in and blah blah blah. I go when I look at the Savannah Port to see just how many cargo shipments came through that last year. It was over what is it? 400..4,700 just getting started in the beginning of this year 4700 just getting started for the beginning of this year. So why is it we're not getting the stuff that we need? All of that is a part of transportation. So I apologize I did not get an opportunity to get all that stuff to you before you sent me your email. But I need to know from you today. Is that something that you still want you still want to do this because it's going to be a lot of work. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Brown. I will be sending out an email to all of the chairs, asking each chair to give me the name of their safety public safety person if they don't have a public safety person asking them to designate someone to come to the meeting. It is our plan to set that first meeting up as the dinner meeting to give them an opportunity to talk to you meet with you. Before this meeting happens though, you and I and the Committee on Council will sit down and come up with goals and objectives for the transport-the for the Public Safety Committee. Now let me finish at that meeting, We want to number one let them know what are those objectives are, but also find out what their issues are in their communities. Now, hopefully some of those people that would be a pain as the public safety chairs for the NPUs will be people that they've already appointed to the watch groups. I mean, what do they call them? work groups? study groups? really out there and here
to distract you.
So we're going to start with you first. Because we got to get this work group stat.
So no and and I agree like some are very active and most of them ... that know what I mean? and I've seen people actively in community who said 'oh yeah, I get your emails'... feedback from the people. The problem right now with us is... the studies we have to turn. We didn't follow the code on actually determining who is the actual voting member of a committee, which is where we left off with planning is actually saying
okay, well here's the thing. Here's the thing. We briefly discussed having a really shaping our meet our committees, so that they would not be quote unquote, committees, but breakout groups or work groups or whatever, just so that we could come up with a method where we could not have to meet in person. But I realized as I was going through these goals and objectives that yeah, the committees need to be in person 'cause there's a lot of work to be done. So, that being said, if you're the chair of an active committee, your the voting members of that committee will be the representatives from those NPUS. So just as APAB has 25 effective members. Each committee has 25 effective members. So the people that will be able to vote at your meetings, will be the transportation chairs from the NPUs the public safety chairs from the NPUs. Now that does not mean that other people can't come, can't voice their opinions, but whatever you all are voting on to send back to the main body has to be voted on by those 25 members if all 25 are present,
so certainly that's a great idea. That's the way he was trying to do it. Maybe also omitted the APAB delegates and alternates in that process.
And so that's why I was waiting for that. We can't, we can't do it that way. I'm saying
I was waiting to hear that that's the way we were going to do it I was only awaiting feedback for official guidance on how we wanted to do that. That was my recommendations that the appointee to which to always ask now that I've people that got 400 people in a database that goes out. You guys have seen it..it's about 400 people in who even has attended an APAB meeting, it goes to all president chairs, our chair..And that's fine. That's absolutely fine. In terms of of our views, that were clear, and we also follow the goals once we get those things formalized. Again. The work groups are wonderful for us because again that's, that's the train about subcommittee, which we got from NPU T and Zone....1 who was doing the police advisory councils that we never really get big on as a community but that was the opportunity to have those conversations about the NPU and we were part of that group to go to the council to be able to meet and interact with your zone commanders and your to your top leadership. So that's what I'm saying, that's why I was so big about what we were doing because there was a lot of opportunity and activity in the NPUs.... all the work we've done in communities and active committees about NPUs that will flourish. So I applaud leadership and make the decision I do deserve the designee from the singular NPUs. And that's one reason why I want to add that to our earlier saying hey, while we're looking at communication, let's take the opportunity to make sure that we reiterate we're on the same page. So we're going to reiterate that to the...
I will schedule a meeting with you, we'll do it soon. But we need to get it together. Alright?
Madame Chair? Yessir? So how does that align with our current bylaws? Just saying that you're going to...does that mean you're going to deviate to the chairs of the NPUS vs. members of APAB which is not
consistent. That's not consistent with our bylaws, but what we have in our bylaws right now a lot of this stuff has changed based upon the change that we made last year. So
that's wasn't what I was hearing. What I was hearing her saying is we're saying we don't have the people to fill those working groups. I think her recommendation is valid on my NPU chair that you've got a ready group that most NPUs have currently in public safety to to network with those in either ... I'm being appointed to the working group on my chair. But again, I just happened to be lucky there are only three NPUs in zone three some NPUs have multiple than four. So there's a meeting of the mind collaborating amongst those but that's all I was hearing is that start with you're ready. You're ready made group which is the public safety chair
she also talked committee work. He actually asked 'What about the delegates and alternates?' Who are participating
The delegates and alternates can come and they can, you know, be in on the discussion...But the vote? But the voting needs to be the 25 representatives from the NPUs and these need to be their public safety chairpersons
Madame Chair, are you growing APAB?
I'm on board! I'm on board! I'm growing APAB, okay, here's the thing. We have had issues in the past with trying to determine who would be the voting members at committee meetings. And realistically, we...when you make a recommendation that way we need to expand APAB because we need more people on these committees. Yeah, it's the same thing. Just join it in a different tone. But realistically, our job as a board, APAB Board is to communicate to the with the NPU on any issue, impacting the city. And we cannot do that. If we only do working within our own
confines. Rasheen remember the working groups are not composed of APAB members each NPU is pulling people from from their communities
We're talking about committees, which means so just what I'm also doing right now I'm going to throw this out there, there is no quorum for committees currently. Jim has a quorum. Now all you need is two people, someone making a motion, someone to second it for it to come out of committee for it to be brought to the body.
Okay, but here's this minute. I'm glad Jim just stood up. Jim is going to carry this burden by himself for it since I've been in APAB, which makes no sense. I have it Zoning chair, zoning and land use chairperson every NPU has a Zoning and Land Use Chairperson all 25 of those people should be at Jim's meetings. And with those resolutions that they come up with when they are voted on and sent to the main body every NPU they should already know about it because their zoning chairperson voted on it. And if they were to take it back to the NPUs. We have never this board has never been structured and function with the way that is supposed to be
I would add. The alternates and delegates to that pool, as a as a backup, and I'd say that because we've received communication people like what's going on I play James Caldwell, who's phases in communication and he's one of them that gets frustrated because I'm trying to make sure that I'm doing
but see, Mr. Caldwell can be there Mr. Caldwell could actually be the public safety. person for his NPU. He's over five NPUs...Well, he would be on your committee, and he can vote.
No, That's what I'm saying. So when we were operating, even though it was in the pretense of APAB, we created a subcommittee that will be of those like those five NPUs. That's NPU V... They also feed into Zone 3. So what I did when I took the Zone out, and I broke down the whole city. And it's actually about five to six NPUs per Zone. So I was calling that as a training piece. And it's the spirit of which we're doing one of the first ones and he was even a part of the same committee in this NPU.
He seem to be very dedicated, but he shouldn't be voting for five NPUs.
It's not about voting again it's about responsibility and about accountability. you're saying one person for 25 NPUs it's sort of a subcommittee is being getting cited. Okay.
Let's do this because you confusing me now. Let's focus on first getting the public safety chairperson from all 25 NPUS to your meeting. Yes, Kyle?
Not all 25 NPUs have any set of committees, that's not going to work for mine. I think also, as is brought up, this doesn't align with our current bylaws, or legislation regarding total membership of APAB or whatever. and they should... strategic planning conversations. This is great stuff to have during strategic planning and we can still take what Chris has been doing for his committee during the whatever it needs to be. But to try to determine now that that's the way we all tend to function. Well at this point...The other thing just, we're coming up on six o'clock. Yeah, I've got another commitment I've got to leave for presume so are they sure that we're trying to cover anything that we need to agenda today?
We're gonna have to miss some of this. And one of the reasons I wanted to bring this up and we needed to discuss this is because you all know about the best practices. Think that discussions and things that we have, what's the deadline on that on that, Leah? Deadline on what? Best practices. Did everybody get a copy? August. ...presentation.... and we need to have APAB's goals, objectives, and APAB's best practices on paper and ready to submit to them. And what we've been doing, has not gotten us anywhere. So it's time for us to make a change with these committees. We're not we're supposed to be communicating with the the citizens we're not. We have...in some cases, I'm just in general and that's, you know, be a specific, but we can't and the way we do it is if we're mimicking the city council's committees, and what we need to be doing is just that, bringing in all of the NPU transportation chairs all of the NPU safety chairs, and getting them actively involved with our APAB committees and taking that information back to their NPUs. Now, Kyle brought this up and as the Bylaws chair, Kyle is going to start looking at how we go about getting this into our bylaws as our means of operation so that we can have standard operating procedures because we don't have any. I started that was the first thing I started on in January, that everybody decided they wanted to do this and they wanted to do that and it was just let's attack Anne, let's attack Anne and that's all I got. So at this point let's get back to business
all right. And then by May, I think a great starting point. All of this not trying to go down a rabbit hole. But I think that giving all email addresses right? official email addresses so that professional business can really start to be handled, and communications can be going out in the right way. To the right places on a regular basis. Because I know for me, I want to send out I wanted to send out a transportation communication to all the city of Atlanta, let them know, hey, the Transportation Committee is on and poppin Let's go. But I don't want to do anything unless that was through professional email. So we're moving forward it does seem like these emails are and have been now distributed. So I think now at this point...No the emails have not been distributed. You're the only one. You're the only one with an email.
This committee has not... the emails. They have not gotten back to us with the cost. I don't know who it was that gave you that email address, but they were not supposed to give anybody any information until they came back to this board. No, I'll just go with it.
saying basically just diving into the conversation very seriously
like, and that's a finance matter. We have to improve that financially right? Because there is going to be some cost associated with it. So this committee has not had an opportunity to even take a look at that's all I'm saying.
I think my point overall is that in order for us to move forward with conducting professional business, we each need a professional email address and
that will be determined by our budget and once they Kyle and I sent him an email and he did not respond. Go ahead. Let me check that I have the right email address for him because they were supposed to get back to us with cost and some other things that I've asked them about and they did not so they should not have been issuing emails to anybody until they told the board what this is going to cost.
Or better yet, maybe when we just have a conversation about the emails, I mean, we've all seen my email already. I laid it out in terms of even me being able to step up to the plate and volunteer the different platforms so I'll be very specific. I don't know what we're waiting on at this point.
thing. Waiting on them to come back and tell us what I asked them.
Long as you're doing it from an email that's not attached to your personal email create you a at Gmail dot email
that's not the way professional business is done. If we're sending out emails and moving forward. They need to be professional. So what I'm saying is no personal emails and nothing created with at Gmail we have the tools and resources that we need ...I'm not disagreeing with you...to be able to have professional email addresses and therefore and moving forward. That is indeed what we should have with no exception.
What I'm saying because I'm not I'm not disagreeing
Leah, before you move, you're gonna have to stop because she's been waiting to give us an update on this. The best practices and where we need to be and where we need to go so I need to hear this.... I'm supposed to be in Gainesville by 5 o'clock. Okay. And in the spirit of best practices we already late so those are time for the best practices. Kyle has to go and she has to go so let's move on.
So if I may, Madame President, because budget was a part of my conversation, for today but I won't get deep into it bc I can't. there's not much I can say what I can't say that makes you feel any better, Mr. Brown, Is that the way it works once Council approves the budget and allocates the Department of City Planning its budget. Our department leadership then allocates my budget. Once I have my budget, I'm happy to discuss with y'all what your what your needs are, and try to ...I'm familiar with your budget process...I'm talking about my budget process. you're not familiar with mine because you're not...You're a department. I'm not a department. Ok. My bad. I'm a part of a department. So I have a budget within the Department of City Planning's budget. DCP allocates funding to me to manage the NPU operations. So a piece that I was sharing today is that even after the budget has been approved at that higher level, once I'm told what my budget is and I don't have much input there, I'm given my budget, I'm happy to hear from APAB what your needs might be and figure out a way to accommodate that, if I can
so so but So, so far we have piece was again to your point, we had to have conversations and we talked about it which means that budget allocation has a numerical value to it you know, we have a governmnet, government transfer of funds where there's our allocated to our point or not. I don't care where the money comes from with ultimately we're a part of DC...Planning's budget , so wherever they are allocated, where we know what we want to do. So that everybody's gonna kind of fly do what I want to do in terms of communication, like Jereme is saying...It's fear we can get to that point, you'll figure that out for us, but we have to figure out our own problems that which is what do we need? What do we want, you don't say you can get your budget for us to do that. So therefore we will have a spirit of what we what we're trying to do like what Jereme is saying is that, hey, we want to be a business. We want to have some emails, we want to look a certain type of way. What is it going to take? What is it going to cost? And we have a budget for that point. But that takes us to do that. I mean, Leah can only communicate the spirit of what we're communicating to her about what we want to do with the need to be the advocate from there. That's it. Everything is already earmarked for something, discretionary funds especially that we should make a use for that possibly, I don't know, whatever you I don't care where it come from. I just know that when we need it. Team, we'd have some funds to initiative that you want to see. We want to support NPUs more. They want to some other creative things and just think about that. We have until July one. You have ...do it during the process. And that's my thing about getting into with. Leah I don't mean to f with you I don't no matter how we get each other good.
Yeah, I would just point out and I've said this to a few of you. I strongly, I can't stress it enough. I strongly encourage and urge APAB to focus on its role in the APAB role is to advise the city on city wide matters, period. APAB is filled with private citizens, like every other board in the city of Atlanta private citizens. It's not a club. It's not an advocacy group. It's not an activism group. It is a an advisory board its purpose and the purpose of all of its committees is to provide advise to do research is to engage with NPUs to determine what those recommendations are for the city. It's to decide as a board, not the executive board and decide as a board. What that recommendation to the city is and so to provide a recommendation to the city. It helps us extracurricular and clearly should not be prioritized as a matter of day to day operation at all. Your function is to provide advice to the city recommendations and the only reason that I'm saying that is not because I'm here to tell you what to do. Is because I really want to see the APAB function effectively. I want to see sound recommendations coming from the Atlanta planning advisory board that I can advocate for in my day to day job. Very, very hard to do that. It's hard to win support for what's coming out of out of APAB when things go the way they are going.That's the end of that. So, best practices, y'all know 24 I'm sorry. 22 Our Gosh, 3414 was council member agencies resolution to ask the Department of City Planning to work with APAB to develop a set of best practices provided to you today this document which is an outline, meant only for discussion purposes. It wasn't prepared for circulation at all this prepared just for discussion purposes. I recognize that we don't have time to discuss that. today. I would ask the board would oblige for time to present on Saturday at the...not just my regular report but an actual
presentation You want to do a presentation? Yes ma'am. If the board will oblige. We don't have any presentations.
Thank you very much. So what you have in front of you, as I said is an outline it outlines four different categories for best practices. One is on NPU health with about seven subcategories, one is on communications. One is on meetings, on meetings and the fourth is on application review and NPU recommendations. The reason I'm bringing this to you today is to ask you to provide feedback on anything that you think might be missing from this document. Of course, these are not the actual... we don't have that.
yeah we don't have that. I tried to pass it around. It may have gotten stuck. sorry you're not over Yeah, it's it's a we got I got this one more yeah. Oh yeah. We can share we can share.
Right. So what is this?
That is the transition report. Give me a second. I can. I can talk a second about that. Although I didn't add it to this package. Best practices. You have been fighting for sections in detail, communications to meetings and application review and NPU recommendations. Each of those sections has subcategories. And this is the result of a ton of brainstorming, researching reviewing meeting notes, attending actual meetings, of course you all have seen me at your NPU meetings and these are basically the categories that we think are most relevant. When we talk about best practices for NPUs. However, I would love your input if there's anything that you think is missing. And then what I want to talk also Mr. Mr. Hunter just a second. I also want to talk about the timeline will be on Saturday, I'll present this and also call for feedback or input for anything that might be missing or anything that you think is there that should not be there that will not lead to good discussion around best practices, et cetera. And then in July, I'll be back at your executive board meeting that you will have me to present our first, hopefully, first draft of the best practices that we've reviewed, you'll have that your July executive board meeting, and we will send all of this stuff out ahead of time. I think there's also remember correctly there's also an intention to link to it on the NPU agenda so that they can review it as well and give us feedback we'll have an open, open access for any feedback, any thoughts, any input that you all want to give to us to incorporate into the final draft which we will present to the Community Development Human Services Committee in August
this one thing that..I know this happened in my NPU. I can't hear you Mr. Hunter. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. One thing I didn't see in the beginning was..what's that thing called? The DC?
a CDP. The whole reason we exist actually I said the whole reason we exist.
So yeah, that's actually included under application review. And NPU recommendation it's not here, I have a bunch of stuff that I'm not prepared to share but
it but I'll add that I think it would be cool if we start training for it before it comes We have a class on NPU university. Ok. bc a lot of us is like it's on the on the like, when it came around this time was my first time being involved. So it was like okay, I'm hearing from my NPU in here, but I would love to see ...also participate
Rasheen friendly and all that comes around the mandate federal every five years I think now they've been ...so that you can submit annually but there's a federal mandate.
No..And you can update your ...CDP is every ten years, no, no no. it's every five years
or fourth year we start talking about it because
COVID was my first experience with it.
So what do you are talking about saying yes, the DCP?
There's a state requirement for the Department of Community Affairs, which says there's only five years of qualified as a certified local government, but there's no restriction on how frequently the city chooses to go to the process. And you see they go through every year additional elements that we do review every year like recruitment, element, right ..., and there are quarterly CDP hearings to make amendments to it. That's it. So it is an ongoing, ever evolving thing. But like the budget conversation like these are the things that see not a person but the city, writ large, has not presented these opportunities to communities and these bodies that we exist on have not reviewed the documentation understand what the roles are. We're busy doing other sorts of stuff and forgetting the reason why the city put us into existence. Now that we can't do the other stuff. But if we don't speak on the budget, we missed opportunity if we don't address the CDP we miss an opportunity to only be referring to so and so.
All I heard was in 21 That was the first time we became really involved in the process. Let's get something out. We are going to revisit it in 22 to kind of really restore it up but under some mandatory submission.
So if a city if the city does not update the CDP every five years in the year we lose our status as a certified local government. At which prohibits us from receiving certain funding and doing other sort of things. You can't have zoning laws, you can't do those other things if you don't have a CDP, which provides a broader overview for all the other things that the city wants to do. It would be a major mistake if we didn't do it. Yeah. So you got to do something technical, but so what
obviously was done in 2020, but of course COVID hit, so we got stuck trying to rush through it in 2021. Now we were supposed to started the process in 2020 because we normally have a series of sessions and work sessions where we actually go in and just work on it. That would have occurred pretty much in the latter part of 2020. But because of COVID they realized early in 2021 Oh we haven't done anything. So that's when they started trying to push to get us to vote on it. Lora has her hand up.
I was the one who brought the topic to the table if I can get my best practices out I would be grateful. Tell Lora to take her hand down. what I was suggesting was going to come around for this in every five years. The fourth year before it comes is when we should probably have the conversation with our citizen groups, NPUs and below to get them brain practice so they see things they can respond better when it's time to learn about what is this? Oh, I will respond like this.
I think fully functioning ones are. Mine is. We work on policies annually. So, fully function ones are working on policies annually we went from three page to 15 pages just because we took it seriously.
We will be able to do it as a best practice. For all 25 NPUS so therefore think that NPU university has been a great addition to what we've been doing. I think that programming new information seems to be open and maybe we work to improve our over the years course we can do
I'm going to be real with you. No. My answer's no. Like we're just having a conversation for those new residents who were closed. We should be closed but we're open. And so there'll be several new people that will be among us. So unfortunately, that one needs to know how we get here
I want to say, if I may, to Mr. Hunter, we well not to Mr. Hunter in response to ...suggestions. We NPU university this year for the first time. It's actually teaching at least three courses but one is an intro to the CDP for people who just don't know what it is or what it does or where to start because I saw a lot of that last year.
Are our council members invited to that NPU University?
that is messy and I will not respond to it. It's I saw a lot of it and it was heartbreaking. It was the reason that I created NPU University for that very reason. My very first year in this role my first two months in this role, we call it across to all the NPUs and I
We may want to parse that acronym. Not everybody actually knows what an acronym stands for...the CDP?
...the comprehensive development plan
that's fair, that's fair because in our in our department we try to avoid acronyms, so that is fair. Oh yeah, absolutely. All right. No question.
No, actually I was just going to say and you've already discussed it, so I won't beleaguer but the NPUs have an opportunity annually, at least to update their own policies regarding what how they look at the CDP. The CDP doesn't have to actually adhere to those policies, but they do planning does take that into consideration. And so we have that ability.
That's a huge caveat. And I continue to reiterate that in my own narrative that these are just recommendations, well crafted ones that are reasonable usually fly but they're just
Also, as I know, NPU University... DCP this was on, but what is it the APAB could do, to also assist in things which are assisting with getting that message out how important is how many words are you participating? What was in the in the making everyone aware of the CDP
The question for me though, is that something that you're saying should be spelled out in the best practices?
I think it should. I think it's both. or what is that we can do to help and how that can be a part of the best practices when you're putting on what can APAB do as opposed to be on leading the conversation with a sense of participation? What should we be doing right around the DCP?
Yeah, CDP. DCP is a department saving CDP is a comprehensive development plan.
What should we doing? Well, that's before, during and after it's it's phase of impementing.
Yeah. Let me answer that on Saturday, if I can. And the reason that I say that is that I'm trying to be really deliberate about how I think about APAB and how my department thinks about APAB. And how the city thinks about APAB. Frankly, I just I, yeah, I want to be more deliberate about that. And I have shared with most of you my concerns about how APAB functions and to Miss Gloria's point, this year has been scary with APAB. I've not seen anything like this since I've been here
this is all I've ever seen.
For me, that is the scary part. I know that it's been worse. I was around when it was worse. And I see it going in that direction. And it frightens me frankly, I've done a lot of work in this role, and I would hate to see APAB. I would hate to have to deal with it APAB that is in the place. That the old APAB was in Leah, quick question
Different culture turning a corner that goes to
On the best practices. Since this June and August will be NPU University have similar training session or anything on where we have an opportunity to work with you and go over what you come up with. How's that gonna
work? Yes. So if there are no suggestions or edits or updates between now and Saturday, I'll be sharing the outline kind of on Saturday and what we have in mind for those best practices. And then hopefully take some feedback right there from from the APAB members, and then update the the outline with a full first draft to circulate throughout the NPUs and APAB and then provide the second draft in second and hopefully final draft in July. So yes, plenty of opportunity for the NPUs and for APAB to make some suggestions, etc.
So again, good just as it should be in ..oh I'm sorry Lora
I was just going to ask this because this is the first time that I have seen this. If you would send this as a file to either Anne or whomever I would be happy to send this out to the body so that they could be prepared, have a chance to read it and give you some feedback before the next meeting.
I agree, Leah, just having the opportunity to produce it or make your presentation much more meaningful. Yeah,
so I have a question about the bylaws review. I know some people have a component of this. I kinda kicked around the can on it in my NPU. But I think that there should be some parts of bylaws that are standardized, among other things, some parts, not all. I was wondering, give us a snapshot. Are you addressing that? some standardization with bylaws?
I can't call that a best practice because it's not really in practice anywhere in the system. So
in terms of ours Well, I'm sure others other what other neighborhood....
Oh, yes, yes. So there are certainly people on my team that would love nothing more than that standardized bylaws in Atlanta, per the NPUs. You know, y'all know, I live here. too. So I'm a NPU member, taxpayer, and I'm not a fan of standardized bylaws for the NPUs personally, but that's something that the NPUs want then I'm certainly willing to work with NPUs to draft some standardized language. But I'm not personally as a voter I wouldn't vote in favor in my own NPU. That said, we do have it preceded me. I can't take credit for it. But we do have some standardized language that we provided to NPUs years ago under Charlotta Jackson, and that was given to all NPUSs and they could take whichever parts of it they wanted. So you'll find if you ever look through all 25 of them, I know Kyle has to find some commonalities throughout the NPUs, you'll see where this probably was the same thing that's in those other ones and they just changed it to suit their own called ... and then the NPUs have their own cultures. Yeah. Yeah, so we've talked about internally, we've talked about some standardized language way with councilmember Brown Thank you did his legislation back in 2020. I think it was 2019 2020. Thank you. Yeah, he we talked about what that might look like and what some standardized language around elections might be because we have a lot of headache with elections. I'm a fan. Personally, I definitely support having some standardized language around elections. But it wouldn't be standardized and restricted. It would be standardized in a way that accommodates what everybody currently does for elections and just says, you know, if this is the way you do elections, here are the steps that you take. This is the way you do election, here are the steps etc. and offering the NPUs language around any of those
particular methods. How would those things be enforced though, because there is language in particular, let's say about elections, and each of the NPUs to my knowledge was not was interpreting that language very differently. So who is the final person to determine a lot of I guess this language? Is it the
actual NPU? It is. The code, the code states that the employees are accountable to their members?
I would dare say that from what I viewed in most bylaws is the nominating committee. There's the numeration of the task and the nominating committee and the timeframe. That's the pretty standard base that I've seen in most bylaws for annual elections may all are mandatory, I believe, the month of November as per the ordinance October. That was November, October, November. Either either
it has to be done by December. That's the but it hasn't been done by November 30. And it's not done by November 30. That it's probably City Planning..
But per the bylaws, November is the intended date again elections but it's just that things occur. And that doesn't take us in November D- DCP presides over. But again, that's what I've seen the standard every bylaw I've read has an panels a nominating committee The question is when and what's the duration?
Well, the code says October and November because they don't want to repeat. We meet the first Monday. The 30th does not apply because we'd be met twice and there's not enough time behind so that's why it's October and November that's the bylaws said? that's what the code says because everybody meets different days of the week.
In November one election... Recollection... I always remembered it being November.
my own NPU does this election in October, and that's also spelled out in my bylaws.
The one thing that we started looking at the what is the transition period some folks immediately upon the election starts the new administration rather than January 1. So that's that varies significantly different.
That's a good best practice to discuss.
Yeah, and it's not good enough. This transition actually, I
believe they did change that. I recommended that they change that a couple of years ago. I think they actually did I think Jereme... really well, I don't think nothing in our hands. So
yes, sir. President's permission ask your question. Two things. So one mentioning all this ... cdhs here so it's your understanding that this is not a carved in stone. 'We're done with the best practice' in perpetuity. This is a living breathing document and it continues to evolve and be reviewed at some
schedule. So my recommendation um, that's a good question, as well. My recommendation is that it be reviewed every year and that that means documented in the best practices. All we're doing is pitching it
your recommendation on the line with CCI some recommendations about evaluation, so
I love it when CCI CCI and I agree. That's my favorite thing.
Question number two, you've requested time on the June agenda, specifically for this right. Since you will be presenting shortly after the July meeting to cdhs Do you want to time in July as well? Absolutely. Just going for us to be able to plan for that and to coordinate
Yes, my request would be the present in June and in July.
You're presenting to our CDHS or the one in the....?
To the full body for APAB, but CDHS presentation is August I am internally we're preparing for August 9 But I don't know that it will be August 9 and my fingers are crossed. So it will be August 23.
Again for the body to prepare, for APAB
for the City Council cdhs commitee.
Our meeting is this Saturday
Juneteenth is the 19th Juneteenth is Sunday holiday being celebrated on Monday
along .... you I mean yeah but you know it's it's it's holidays, pick up and unless somebody's in place saying. Listen, it's Mother's Day. It's Easter about about a .... I think that's how we got the Mayor transfered because it was what Mother's Day? Was it Mother's Day weekend? It was Easter.
All right. Anything else beyond that? .....we should have another argument about that Chris, outside of here. funding but I'm not in agreement
with that work you want to do. Resources sent? No, I dont think so.
So this week, is a committee week so the budget will be coming out presumably, in some committees, definitely the finance committee they are scheduled to adopt the final, the final budget and it will be amended in perpetuity throughout the year on June 21 which is delayed a day. It's a Tuesday City Council meeting because it's Juneteenth during the DCP department city planning presentation last week on Tuesday that pretty much for your two council members have asked specifically about NPU support funding where it's as shown that's what stuff was not probably the presentation. As Leah mentioned, most things are much to a higher level for this budget. It doesn't give line item by line item, so there's still opportunity to shift exactly where the money lands. But the bigger picture, if we're concerned about DCPs overall funding and we're able to do all the other stuff they're going to do about zoning, enforcement and whatever else. We need to make sure that's addressed and otherwise there's still plenty of opportunities to engage with Leah with her team and everybody else to make sure that DCP allocates appropriate amount of funding to the NPU team. And I will say this year is the first time in forever, that there actually will be fliers for Leah's team so that she can track and also the Public and Council can track as well to understand how much resources are being allocated to her team rather than just broadly to the Office of commissioner or to offices zoning and development before we can start tracking that stuff. She can track it we can allocate we could ask for more money directly to that line item and all those things are great benefits that are already in legislation now. But yeah, I would at this point, I don't really think we should rush something to try to get it done before the 21st Knowing that there are other opportunities, but be cognizant of things that will be happening on the twenty first and then opportunities to engage thereafter
in Can I add one quick thing to that. As individual citizens it is definitely a good idea to to Kyle's point. This is the first time at least as far as I can go. I've been with the city since 2013 in one capacity or another previously at Invest Atlanta, as y'all know. And this is definitely the first time since then, that the NPU division has gotten its own line item in the budget. First time. It's a big deal. And once that number is said and done, this is kind of what I was alluding to earlier. Once that number is set in stone, there's no room for movement within my department, that's just my number, period. If that number is, you know 35 cents, I just got 35 cents to work with. So you got to say something for about funding for that division.
That was my point to the point of we need allocation. Not discretionary, per se but having a subject number 1000 as the basis of that number for getting us NPUs for some of our specifically APAB there are also a ton of functions and the support of NPUs, which is something that we've talked about and it's something that I've seen happens is I came to the city in 2005. So I've seen a lot of things happen. And obviously there's an opportunity to y'all's point where you know what I mean? I'm going to give you X amount of dollars if we didn't say anything then you know we can't grab Leah she has already created in the in the budget workshops that he was even money sitting...cut ...shave a litle off of that... There's no room for APAB to ask anything because they're overall number was wide and there were budget amendments that they can always have other budget amendments they always have to do and even wisdom allocations, which I understand that but we arepushing them because I'm pushing this because I've been saying this for sadly and I just wanted to demonstrate those the same understanding that I've talked to my NPU chairs, which isn't good, and we wind up with the bare essence of NPU climbing the mountain simply because our market places have flown vehicles too. And so we're finding that there's a lot more opportunities even in my own game.
I would say this, if I may, I would focus on what and this isn't to say that you're not. I'm just saying I would focus on what it is that you would like to do. And then how much it costs to do that as opposed to saying we just want money. Oh, we'll figure out what to do with it once we get the money but just give us money because you absolutely have to demonstrate that there is a real need for it and that your to your point wants to be a good steward and for us without a doubt. Excellent steward. NPU X is withough a doubt an excellent steward of their grant funds. So so this is why
we have what we also won't be on the same page. You know, obviously opportunity for some of us talk about culture, small, we're past that that really keep in mind the
purpose of the NPU Well, I just don't want to see a bunch of stuff about events and things and fun stuff when when you guys have to make recommendations that change the city that really is
our job before we go in your package, asked Lara just sent to you that complete transition team report, but I only print it out for you 51 & 52 But we're talking about budget. This particularly says that it's what it says that it should be a office of neighborhoods office of neighborhoods in Leah's office. It doesn't say that. But in DCP and then office of neighborhoods was specifically addressed issues that the 242 neighborhoods have several things, not the stuff that the NPU or APAB would address. But then we're talking about budgets and asking her to for money. This is one idea out of that report. That would be of tremendous benefit to every community in the city. They will only deal with community issues. So if you're the chair of the NPU your communities don't have to call you to ask you for everything thing I have a direct line to that community office. So in terms of asking for money, I want you all to read this and give LEah your feedback. She did indicate that this might require our doing so make a call to our council people. But realistically, we're supposed to be advisors that's it. so from my end. let's get so ...the mayor's transition to submit via email,
so it's a link in the email. It's a link in the email So there was a recommendation to the mayor, I supposed to follow up on which is when I was in New York, we have an Office of Public Advocate and we've we've talked to them extensively about the role was actually an elected position. And so one of the questions that we had started and has not been able to get here here was what is next? What's the next? I mean, and we know that you know, it's that second home grown Mayor and we have a duty to uphold our leadership and to be supporting the best we can. So I thought that it was opportunity and like constituent services or some form, because this thing I've seen die a little bit like sometimes we do see the mayor, do some great things then counsel be lame, you know? Therefore the counsel has never been the same connection within the community. We had a couple of different uprisings and difficulties have been a lot of people didn't agree per se how things were handled. About having somebody like to get in that position but was an executive officer someone to counsel with a partner and partner with somebody in that community aspect to be able to handle those types of things. This seemed to be great, you know, I mean, I liked the nighttime mayor thing but I think that was the only the response I think something to what I was getting out of that piece. There was more in such that what we needed that can actually help and be a part of what we're doing. So I do agree with the spirit of that piece and maybe Leah might have to be productive see my smile when I
what's needed, know what I mean? The city of South Fulton has that. Yeah, yeah.
All over the country, offices of neighborhoods, departments of neighborhoods, etc. It might not be the first. I do want to point out though to clarify if I may. I am not asking and would not ask for anybody to specifically advocate for that one recommendation, especially not using my name I want to be around to advocate for you. But the entire section of this Phillips sent out is the Neighborhood Empowerment section with recommendations and some of them are really worth looking at and deciding for yourself individually what you support and what you'd like to call on your council member to advocate for, but also deciding as a board your board should definitely be reviewing the recommendations and your board should be making a recommendation to the city on what you break. Whenever you're recommended recommendation is I don't even care what the recommendation is. But this the kind of stuff you should be that like this is the kind of stuff that y'all should be looking at discussing and debating it all the time in the background and virtual debate and this right here and making a recommendation to the city. On whether you want them to post what you want them to post
along that line Lora sent over an email right before this meeting. And it was like 25 questions
Those questions are not for DCP by the way it said
for planning but I didn't know who did who I was supposed to direct feedback. So to whom, to whomever that this feedback is to be given
questions and compare the questions to that report. And so that you have a thorough understanding of what she's asking but also please read the report I need you to read the report because you can't talk about your
question. And the questions are drafted earlier.
Yeah, so I sent this out to the entire executive committee on Thursday morning. I sent it out the 20 pages that Anne asked me to send out and then I also sent out the entire report the entire transition report, which I read a couple of months ago because Leah sent it out to all NPU chairs back I think in April. It is the only question I wanted to ask here was, is that to Leah's point, is this to be presented to the APAB body as a whole for feedback, or is it just we're discussing among ourselves? I just I'm asking like what are we supposed to do with this information?
My original thought was that we would send 20 pages that were sent out to the entire body, but without some kind of explanation, and at telling them exactly what we want them to focus on. They would probably look at it and say this is too much to read and not to do anything with it.
Can we ask that question? Anybody read it and is it all relevant?
Yeah, read the entire thing. It's not that long.
Question is there significant parts of development also.
So if it will be helpful. I can't commit to producing the printing the entire report for the entire body, but I don't mind printing. I'll bring something whether it's just the neighborhood empowerment section and bring it out on Saturday or print a smaller number of the full report. I don't mind doing that to put it in people's hands physically. Because as Lora stated, I did email this out to all of the NPU chairs. That absolutely did not respond Absolutely. Once you open it up and see how long it is you said I'll get back to that instead of my email that you know these pages are weird. But you know, it's a lot to read to be fair and things to do. No matter what I email out, there's always at least three or four empty chairs that response something
those neighborhood pieces so that we can use
that to your chance to your notice
adopted this month today's meeting. I've seen the lights but I know for breakouts
Yeah, it's actually a very detailed, it breaks it down into like Recommendation one a one b one c? Yeah. Like it is actually very It has links still to or you can although you can't see that on the PDF. The full transition report actually has links also built in so if you want to go into more detail to understand that you can I wanted to ask Will this be because you have already sent it out to the MP chairs or is it also going to be a point of NPU agendas like is it going to be something offer feedback on and I asked because in the UK has not taken that up? So I did not know if it was an aspirin Okay. All right. So this is just a document in general that just exists and if we want to offer feedback like we can, but it's not
clarified what I'm what I'm saying here what I said, Listen, what I tried to do, and it's a difficult balancing act, because I don't ever want to send so much email that people don't read it. So I'm very specific about what I say and I'm particular about it. I sent this to the MP chairs because I tried to send information that I think is relevant and stuff that MPs might want to see. It's not something that a legit that'll ends up on your agenda for a vote or for review and comment or anything but I think MPs might care about it. So I'm going to send it out to the chairs. This is one of those things that I think MP us and AIPAC should be paying attention to having an opinion on and sending that opinion to their elected representatives and to the mayor's office. The report for context, the the mayor, the mayor's transition committee, transitioning to whatever it was was like 100 people or AD and they divided themselves into four or they were divided into four subcommittees. One of those subcommittees was Neighborhood Empowerment. One of the people on that neighborhood comment subcommittee was your permeabilized chair who sat on that Neighborhood Empowerment subcommittee. I was one of the stakeholders that participated in they did some stakeholder engagement talking to different people. I was one of them that they talked to gave a really really thorough overview of where we are today where we've been etc. With the NVQs. They then back south to really take their own work and their own research and their conversations and their stakeholder interviews, etc. And they developed a set of recommendations for Neighborhood Empowerment. It is not just about us it's about Neighborhood Empowerment. It certainly includes quite a few mentions of the MP use and recommendations for Neighborhood Empowerment and for MP use at the back of the document by the way, very bad at the very end. There is a timeline also for the Neighborhood Empowerment and it it breaks down to two recommendations in terms of haven't looked at in a while but in terms of what how critical it is whether it's like high priority, medium priority, whether it's immediate term, long term midterm, etc. So there's definitely and my concern I'm telling y'all in this room, I won't say this in the microphone of the leader, but I'm telling you in this room, my concern is that nobody at City Hall is talking about your period is not being discussed, or at least not openly. I have heard that there are so many things happening here and there about the recommendations in general. It's an 80 page document. So it's a lot of recommendations as a relates to Neighborhood Empowerment. The people leading that conversation should be MP leaders and the land planning advisory board. But I'm not hearing any discussion about it at all. Not even if I'm the only one to talk about it. I can't do it.
We may want to consider after the meeting in the session. Everyone was just totally dissected, because there is a lot of types of things and waiting for him to share that with us. What do we want to tackle? Wait elephants.
Read that probably the best way to do it because if we try to just give it to them and ask them for recommendations, they're going to take one look at science and sit on
the question of the document. This is an extra This is the most relevant, the most
relevant recommendations. One of the recommendations is to not pull that one out because you know, of course is a problem, so to speak. So
community development opportunities passing by as a community, and maybe something that we can do GM in Salt Lake City. So let's say just taking that piece of the Samsung or the Jim's gonna do it or whoever just to help lead the conversation in that area.
We're not going to recommend it as an ad hoc committee that we appointed. And our committee have been about three or four people who will work on this and pull out key points that APEC wants to address with our city council. Or it may even come out as a resolution or recommendation to the city council. That this, you know these things. And this is what we're recommending. Yeah, I think an ad hoc committee would go a lot better than trying to get, get it to the entire body and ask them to give us their kids and also do
some communication just have a way of doing engagement. So you can see we're taking off some of the experts excerpts from it, as it's what we're looking at support to try to get people to survive and to engage
crisis issues over verbal audit. I'm going to point you to the ad hoc committee, Mr. Hunter. Anybody else want to volunteer before point? I'm going to output some others
to be helpful, because one of you to just raise your brother or somebody else's. What I'm gonna do is provide an added glance, I'm broken down to one page document that lists out in just a couple of words, each of the recommendations and what page to go to if you're interested in more about that, and I think people digest that document. I would be remiss if I didn't point out that although I personally focused on the Neighborhood Empowerment section. That's where I talked about today. As an Atlantan. As someone that lives here, you really should care about the entire transition report because there's also the Safe Streets section. There's ethics section, which is important and then youth engagement as well. So
it's a really well done report. Like I don't know who I mean, it's really it's a very deep dive into a lot of things and has a lot of good recommendations. Yeah, yeah, it really is. And they have like said they have links built in it's it's pretty yeah, pretty straightforward. It's like at work. Yeah, it's not that serious.
We have a whole bunch of people to choose from, so let's try to use some of the people that basically are constantly well, it actually
should be mentioned at the meeting right. But then he received today to what was called the regular presentation of the radio, you
know, I think people didn't really have the context. Do they've mentioned
that they are really missing out on major reasons. Explain it. To me,
they're gonna want. Yeah, I'm going to print that one pager to say they seem to have something in hand they could do
that in class. You should just reference it at a glance. That'd be a great segue into the ones we did last night in the coming back. Bank is going to be innovative. Also. If you're interested in participating in Azure as well.
What she was asking me Yeah, well, you and Leah both I asked about this presentation, the the one about best practices, right. And that that I did request that we be able to send that out to the full body. And there is going to be a presentation for that next Saturday. Yes. Yeah. Okay.
presentation about best practices.
Best practices, normal report
are two separate things. No, so I'm not staff support for Ahab anymore. So I'm not sure if that's something like it was already but I'm not staff support rate that's I'm not giving a no no, I said that two meetings ago. The staff support for AIPAC you always understand that. No, I'm actually not.
So to whom should we direct the question? What question the question of of do, do I get this to be able to send it out to the board? No. I did not receive this. Okay, okay. It is stressing right now. But most of the format's
the main thing that is killing me. Samantha is our staff support right? That's correct. Yeah. And Leah is pretty much the official backup. Samantha is actually the standard. Nicole was the backup
That's correct. So you know, well, we will because of the best practices because I'll be pushing
for the best practices
that we have to discuss after the presentation
was sent my personal notes in though for that ad hoc committee. You need to make sure chairs actually see those documents and read and recognize and import that transition report, according to you all, is significant. So make sure that just not send to get them a raise without them as they may need to put it on the agenda.
participated in a lot of this. I want to be a money machine with people that would know that.
What I'm saying is that this really I think the hearing the mayor is that this launch of for wanting to elevate the views that I'm hearing the proof of it in that report best practices so I think I'm just seeing it today and I've been people have been talking all along so I'm only say
what was your response? Your email should say no, it's been time
to practice counseling. Right. And then the mayor came out when he transitioned
but all concurrent with the spirit of what's going on here with the elevate the two different entities but it's a heightened, heightened element. There's a heightened mindset towards elevated views. They're not saying I'm pleased to give our attention. Absolutely. Make sure there's a really understanding
in the code of ordinances or it's already one of the purposes is to get the exact terminology to advise the city on matters relating to citizen organizations and participation right so this is establish shouldn't be about So thank you, Leah for sharing the information. But we also should be on the agenda. It's not Lea world is beyond the interview agenda. If we think this shouldn't be on the interview agendas, we are advising to say we're not dictating the way you have to do it. We pass resolutions and we encourage promote whatever, but that's, that's what we should be discussing month after month. Yeah, we're getting that stuff on there. And back to the CDP conversations, I will never let it go. They talks about transportation, it talks about public safety it talks about these things as well. So rather than getting them a new ship all these other things, that's a document that the city the city doesn't do this but we should obviously be accountable for the city is should not pass any piece of legislation that has anything to do with anybody in the new programs that doesn't have a statement that says that aligns with the city. So the mayor can say I want to do when that basketball is going to cost whatever whatever you should say how does that help us in building goals we've already put out if it's there to address public safety great, but you need to state why you're doing it not just because I want to spend money on whatever it seems to be working. But that sort of planning because we're playing advisory board should be holding the city accountable now as we're managing city council committees and trying to do okay, resources, but instead, what are the plans? We shouldn't do that better than anybody else? Right now to say we do and I'm saying volunteer to do everything. But we should be engaged always processes and helping guide the city advise the city and not actually trying to do the work of the city. If we think that every resident in processing should get a postcard it shouldn't be Hey City Council give us money so we can send a postcard is that we expect the city to do new things, and we will make sure that budget is there for the city with the city's budget view. And we're advising the city to do those things, holding them accountable and checking on them. Rather than please give us money because we need to do these things. And we need to come up with our own logic. Right. So thank you for presenting this but yes we want those things that happened, we should say. We use your advice on behalf of the executive committee obviously went out to full body today that we think it shouldn't be on the agenda. So we think the city should do a tour. to present this information. We think the mayor shouldn't do XY and Z whatever. And that's what our goal is
that thank you. I felt like I should pay you for that.
I mean, I did ask about if we could pull in to us and that became a problem. So I wanted to state that like I have asked that question. I have asked what is the relationship between a pub and DCP and the MP use and I could not get a straight answer.
You asked for your writing. I did write and that didn't satisfy you but you did get an answer
to be the answer was include references regarding a pub not DCP and I specifically asked what is the role of DHCP
however, I will, I will point out that I I communicate very clearly with my friends on a patio with my friends and my neighbors all over the city. I communicate very well with everyone. I'm not saying that you don't get the answer to your question.
I'm not saying that you did not communicate well, I'm saying that I think the question that you thought that you answered was not actually the one that I asked. And it's getting to what Kyle is talking about in the sense of I am asking and I'm trying to understand, to try to speak to what Kyle is is advocating essentially, what is the relationship? What is the role between DCP and AIPAC in the sense of supporting us so that we don't just hear from the city down, but we report up? I don't know how to do that. So I am asking. And that is what I am trying to understand.
That wasn't the spirit of your question. It absolutely wasn't. In any case, I'm glad it was answered. Now.
It was not answered. I want to be very clear that was not handled. Lauren
Buckingham just just my she would have been in this room. I think we're we're in a new day. And the new day is that we've been totally disregarded without any presence or I'm saying I would hope we can just maintain Oh, I see progress. The question you asked and think it's under review. What is the relationship the one thing has consistently been through us or times that is the mind when you have an autonomous entity that's created under the ordinance that everybody's doing? Stick around. So what do I do? How do I do when enforcement when accountability? I think the question is in flux. And I think it will be until there's more teeth in it and even then how much teeth can there be when this audit? We don't have to do anything that you say other than if you have to the ordinance, which meetings that are which is elections at a certain time open meetings. It's very what I last read, it's a two three pager. Isn't it
really should not be changed a lot. And in fact, in some of those emails that were circulating around, there was so much I'm sorry, I didn't want to respond to it because there's so much misinformation and even touching it I felt like would make it even more messy. It was already messing up the intensity the responsiveness or the kinds of questions not
a person based organization. That's why expressly stated I think there's more report there's more nuance, I think, based organizations because they do fall under protocol that interview so I don't think most expressly, because that's the question that continues to arise is, is right now we're talking about elevating the use. I am very grateful for what DCP has done in the last three years training and so I really feel respectable falling into the room not really having any base for really know how to process and I think that's the so So I give all credit to that office for picking up from this guy named John Mitchell. I thought it was her protege. You know when I did the Sigrun WHAT THE HELL Why can't he just took it did it for me did the invoice and all that said you're good to go the way it works. But he didn't want there was so many of us that didn't notice as a part of some so but now what about a process for this training now that there's an understanding of sort of the point I'm really tried to make this. Let's, let's, let's exhale and keep the questions going. But I think truly, it's all what is the word talking about? It's all under review at all in progress. I think the more questions are asked, the more people feel like trying to go to find out. We don't know the answer.
And that's a perfectly reasonable answer is to say I don't know.
I would say no.
And respectfully, I will name that. I think you do know, there's no question that you know, what I'm saying is that the way that that I am the code of ordinances that were provided in those links that identified a PABs role that clearly identifies a pubs role. It did not identify DCPS. I don't I don't think that is your fault. I don't think that is that that is even the city of Atlanta has particular intent. I just think that that's how it has evolved. And to Kyle's point, these entities if we want them to be more relevant, if we want to serve in the roles that are actually meaningful in our city, right. We need to understand what each other's roles are not just for the aspect of our body or even the city, but because we will no longer be here at a certain point, right? Personally, I'm not going to serve in the executive committee after this like I have not enjoyed my role here and so I will go back to the body. That said it the aspect of understanding each entity's role benefits us all. That is an element of transparency that UPS our ethics. That holds us accountable to one another. And that perhaps I mean, I can name that my emails obviously have not been received well by anyone. But I will repeat the questions in the sense it is not to be antagonistic it is not to be critical. It is only to understand because I do not I'm being very sincere when I say that I do not. And I think I'm a fairly intelligent person. I spend a lot of time trying to read and discern and I've gone to MPU universities. I read the entire transition report. I am very active in my community, but the city of Atlanta does not make this actually super understandable. That is not your responsibility to fully inform anyone. Please don't please don't I don't mean that personally at all. I am just trying to understand and I think that questions are very healthy, because they tend to show that people are actually interested, right? Like I care what happens in our city. And you may hear that as criticism, but it is it is because I genuinely care. I went through that. I did I slept only a few hours last night because I came from Denver I've been in I've been at Denver for the last few days. When I sent out the AIPAC email, I was under the unfortunate effects of opiates because I lost a thumbnail while I was out there. Yeah, like so. Yeah. A little bit going on myself. But I still do my work. And I care a lot about the work here. So to the extent that without sleep, I read through every single page that you had to send out and I went through that line by line and I offered the feedback so that I would not beleaguered this meeting with my questions. I send them out in an email in the essence of transparency to share all of that with everyone not to not to believe or not to waste time or anything. That is That is my purpose entirely is to be transparent it is to offer feedback when it is requested. And to think a little bit further, if I can, and hopefully get us to think a little bit further as well. I think you are all incredibly intelligent people. And I think that we all do and try to help our community in a very positive way. But we also have to talk to one another to get that done right and not just in this space. I suggested there's a tool called slack. I suggested Kyle a while back to slack because it's a it's a means by which of communication, but you can't do that because it's been. Yes. Yeah. It's very helpful, but it is also not open to open records requests, and I believe in transparency. And so Kyle pointed that out. You can't use it. So or you can but it's going to be a problem for open records.
So much. Absolutely. This is so much spirit so much of what you come in terms of Hadees your analysis. I think you're right that not being able to have these meetings virtually in this period is counterproductive. But just think that the mayor said before the entire body that maybe that was true, but he needed more to see the halls of city in the halls of this building more alive with people because his position was that he saw it feels there's more face to face more brainstorming more, more pushing up. That was just what he said but I've seen absolutely just mirrored to your argument. But it's just one TCP. Again, what would you call it before it was it always decent when everybody has a crossover? At least it was because you have no idea. What what the kind of DCP in that three years is that you couldn't get anything done is if maybe you got a server to read? Maybe not. It was very different. I'm doing currently CP but no, there's a question mark about what is this relationship they have there? I think in the process of developing a playbook that I think unit for about NP University is a big part of that book. Let's give them some more room is what I'm saying because I am saying to you my growth has been concurrent with the appearance of Lea Ariel's four or five people that seem to be impeded specific so let's let's let's you know again, keep doing what you're doing. But I'm just saying we want our composure and I want to currently want you know there's expression that must be the legal Maxim's all things lawful might not be expedient. They may it may be the law, but we know get nowhere. We parse that right now. In fact, we're going to get pushed back that may never be able to come forward that's it thank you very much everybody stay hydrated, really hot. Yes. Let's go