Hey, fixers. I'm Dr Jeanette Benigas, the owner of fix SLP, a grassroots advocacy firm here to challenge the status quo in speech language pathology by driving real change from insurance regulations to removing barriers that prevent full autonomy like the CCC, this podcast is your space to learn, engage and take action in the field of speech language pathology. We don't wait for change. We make it so let's fix SLP!
Hey everybody, welcome back. We've got a very timely bonus episode today. We're recording just a few days after the ASHA convention has ended, and a few days into us having posted some I don't know, pretty loved content. I guess we knew that once we started talking about money, people would respond, because clinicians care about their money. But we're gonna pause that for a second. We might circle to it a little bit, but I've been talking with clinician, Colleen Ashford, for, I don't know, couple months now, and I asked her to come on the pod, and we decided waiting until she had the full circle experience, let her get to that convention for the first time. Have some thoughts there we would wait. So here we are. We've been talking about this for a long time, but Colleen, if you don't follow her and she'll give you her handle in a little bit, she posts some really thoughtful stuff on social media, and it's actually how Preston came to join our team. He was posting really thoughtful stuff on socials, and we connected and continued to talk. And, you know, one thing led to another, and now you all love him, So Preston had to start. I'm not saying Colleen is on our team, but when people are thinking critically about the content that we put out, even if they don't agree, it's great to have those kinds of conversations, and Colleen and I have been able to have those, so I wanted you to hear some of that today, and so I'll just shut up. Hey, Colleen, thanks for joining us today.
Good morning, Jeanette, thank you for having me.
I'm just going to give you the floor. So why don't you tell us about your background? Who are you? What do you want us to know?
Sure. So I'm Colleen Ashford. I am a bilingual speech language pathologist. I've been practicing for a little over seven years. I worked in the schools. I've worked in private practice, had a leadership position there, supervise some CFS, and parlayed that into a community liaison role, and that leadership opportunity really propelled me forward into wanting to open my own practice and work for myself, because I was getting some time to work on the things I was really passionate about, and that just made me want it more. So some of those things are providing neurodiversity affirming practice to autistic children. I love AAC, but also being bilingual. I love being able to help bilingual families with AAC. I treat childhood apraxia of speech, and I do a lot of parent coaching and early intervention. Most of my early intervention services are in Spanish. I live in San Diego County, so we have a high Spanish speaking population, but my business is Ashford speech and advocacy. So while speech therapy is about 80% of what I do right now, I also do special education or disability rights advocacy in the school districts and sit down with parents and do virtual IEP consultations, so going over the child's IEP kind of with a fine tooth comb, a record review, and teaching them about their parent rights and giving them some ideas about either how they can advocate for themselves, or if they want me at that table with them, how we can advocate together. I actually came into the field because my grandmother was an SLP, so that was one of the first things we talked about in our DMS. Jeanette was my grandmother, Kathleen Lehman has since passed on but she is always with me, especially because I see her name every day in my materials that she passed on to me. She spent 30 years in public schools in Illinois, which is actually where I'm from. I've only lived in San Diego about six years, and she was a preschool, SLP, in the public schools, but she was not an ASHA member, and she did not have her C's. My grandma had her six kids pretty quickly after getting her to. Degree in speech pathology, and she stepped away from the field for about 13 years to raise kids. Came back into it, and I wish I could ask her more about it today, but I know she had to jump through some hoops to try to get those C's after she had been away for 13 years, I think at the time, there was quite a bit of money she would have to pay, and she had six kids, she was like, I'm not doing that. And she was not, she was not a fan of them. I didn't know this until I was an undergrad, and I was trying to complete observation hours for a grad school application, and went and observed my grandma, and I had to write down their Asha numbers on the form. And she was like, Oh, I don't have one of those. I don't. I'm not a part of that.
And then those hours didn't count.
No, they didn't. But you know what? They were my favorite hours. They were the best hours.
But you know? Okay, I had some thoughts on that. First of all, I was like, ready to send your grandma a t shirt, and still, I know she's like, the OG fixer, right? So she would be so proud of what you're doing, and I think what's happening in the field right now. But second of all, I think it's a testament what we just said about those hours. The lack of the CCC does not make one less competent. Those were you just said those were some of the best hours I saw. I mean, think about the opportunities undergraduates are missing out on by the restrictive policies of universities and the refusal to open the pathway to earn hours by CCC holders after graduation, like they do for audiologists. We've said this before. There's a pathway that they give audiologists. Yes, you still audio still have to have that, those supervised CCCA hours, but they don't have to get them in grad school. They have a pathway. Asha knows, as soon as they open that up. That's the final pin that's going to crumble the tower, right? Everybody's going to leave. It's missed opportunities for for students, and that's that's really too bad, because there are a lot of people in this field with things to give, and policy and bureaucratic restrictions are preventing that.
Well, and not just that, but, oh, I mean, there's a if you only observe SLPs with their CCC, you may be missing out on hearing the perspectives of someone who decided to forego it as an undergrad, and we hear from students like all these things. I didn't know that. I didn't know you know that SLPs felt this way about Asha or anything. I think that fix SLP and the rise of social media and clinicians connecting over social media has kind of pulled the veil off for a lot of students already, but I would never have gotten that perspective that there was an SLP out there not practicing with their C's if it wasn't my grandma, I didn't know it was possible, truly. So it's a lost perspective if the undergrads don't have the opportunity to earn hours for that. I really enjoyed speaking with you through the comments. I so appreciate your candor and really your attitude of like, everybody's welcome in here. And you know, regardless of whether we agree disagree, one of the first things I told you was I was going to the ASHA convention. And I'm sure a lot of people listening are going to go, why? If you're a fixer, why are you at the ASHA convention? But use the engaged me in questions I had, because this was my first one. There was so much I didn't know about what was going to go on there, and it was a decision I had already made to go with a friend who's from Seattle, and really spend some time with her. So I stuck to that. But I welcome the criticism Absolutely. There are a lot of valid reasons not to go to the ASHA convention, especially with all the things coming out. But I am glad I went, and I do want to get into the whys, but some of the whys were because I was able to attend that leadership Q and A. And out of the 13,000 SLPs and audiologists that were at ASHA, say about 20 of us, maybe 30 were at that Q and A. So I do hope that while I was supporting Asha and going that I can pass something on to the other fixers through my experience there.
We definitely supported boycott convention or whatever, because part of our purpose is cutting off their funding and into the ASHA convention just perpetuates everything we talk about. But yeah, you told me, and I think you were probably nervous to tell me, but I didn't care, fortunately or unfortunately. I'm a seasoned Asha attender. I've been an invited speaker, I've submitted papers, I've done posters. Never say never, but I don't think I'll ever go again. I think it's a hard out for me at this point, but it's tough because. Yes, while Asha itself is one thing, the events and the opportunities outside of those CEU days are phenomenal, but it's the clinicians that make it great. It's the clinicians. It's those of us who are wonderful and attend and even like the good presentations. That's not Asha, that's that's the the clinician who has made that great presentation. And so it's hard because you can't really separate it, because it's all together,
especially the cutting edge research and the academics that's it's just innately tied into what Asha is and where our cutting edge research is going to be presented at. I enjoyed that part of it. I enjoyed the poster presentations I see from a lot of people on social media who went they what they really talk about is like, I loved the connections. I love the networking. And I didn't know a ton of people there, I was kind of meeting some friends of friends, and that was cool networking. But I think my friend and I approached it like we spent all this money now we need to go get all these hours. And we ran around like chickens with our heads cut off between these two buildings that were city blocks apart, trying to get all these hours. And I do think I missed out a little bit on some of those connections. But if you know, if somebody is to go, I would say, focus on that a little bit more, because there were events that I just missed, or I prioritized spending time with my friend. There was a bilingual, SLP, happy hour I didn't realize was happening. Should have gone to that. I mean, the SLP, social scene, I still hope to go to that in the future black SLP, magic conference. There's so much going on around it. Yeah, I think is really enhancing people's experience that, yeah, doesn't have anything to do with the Asher board.
I listen. SLP, social scene. Love them. Love been to it. It's actually how I met my friend AC Goldberg, who has been on the pod. I mean, if it wasn't for that, if it wasn't for Asha convention and social scene, I wouldn't know him. So yeah, there, there are good things. But anyway, so you went, what? What are your impressions now, as a first timer, you have thoughts. Give a thought. You were updating me. Just let everyone know I was getting so many messages from Colleen. I'm so annoying, actually. But yeah, Collins were good, because it was, I was like, get I got the before, and then I was getting the during. So I haven't, I mean, I guess I've heard some of the after, but we'll see what she says, Give it to it us.
All rightm well, just first time impressions. I'm a person who gets a little overwhelmed in crowds, and it was overwhelming. That's huge conference convention. There's a lot of people there, and the way it was split up into the different buildings, and then also the floors. I mean, we spent a lot of time on escalators. I've heard from other people that's very different from some convention centers in other cities, and that it did contribute a little bit to the kind of disjointedness people said they got to, like, mingle and connect a little bit more in other years because of just the way the environment was set up. But It's first time for me. So I didn't know any different. I got to have lunch with some of my friends, friends from grad school. I did bring up fixed, SLP, and just kind of throw it out there. Like, oh, have you guys heard of this? Everyone I talked to at the Convention had heard of it. And some people were like, oh, yeah, I signed that petition. And other people were like, I thought about boycotting, but my employer was paying for this. The other things we talked about were like, you know, there was a couple people in that group who were on a maternity leave or not working at the time, and they wished that they could have had some kind of, you know, waiver or a discount kind of option for being in that position, because it was a significant cost to somebody who's not currently bringing in income. So those were some of the things we talked about. It took me a day or so to even find that the basement part with all the vendors Hawking their wares, because I had they didn't know where to go. And I was like, I feel like I'm missing the super duper bag of it all. Where is that? And then I went down there, and I was like, and I was like, oh, no, get me out of here. I don't know if I hate crowds.
I don't know if you realize this, but there were two different places to go. Yeah, I know I've heard from my business friends, there were quite a few vendors who weren't very happy this year. So we'll see how that impacts ASHA and, then...
I heard you say about how that they had to pay extra for chairs and tables.
Wild, Wild. To me, usually, you know, you pay for the vendor space. And this is I've been a vendor as well with my mobile fees practice in Ohio, where I practice. And always, always, vendor space comes with a. People in chairs, and sometimes there's rules and regulations within the convention and the policies, but Asher, should have included that in the price. So I heard from someone else, they had to go out and buy trash cans for their booth space. And so just the very basics weren't even included. And who knows what the reason is for that, but I know for multiple reasons, sounds like our vendors weren't happy this year. So, you know, par for the course I guess.
and I think there were presenters also invited speakers, people who I was so excited to see in person, who I follow on social media and admire their work, who I think felt a little bit conflicted about being there as well. And I didn't necessarily hear that, but I heard from other people, like, there were some presentations where that was a little bit alluded to. When I went through and did all my CE documenting on Ash's website, I just it was like, what else do you want Ashley know about this? Course I have about this? Course, every single box I just said, compensate your presenters, because anyway, then maybe we get into the leadership Q A. Because one thing I really noticed was that every single presenter, of course, had to give their disclosures financial and non financial, and that was not something that happened at the leadership Q and A.
Of course it wasn't. I mean, why would they be transparent say? I mean, check, here we go. Like, what else are you going to tell us that we we won't be surprised by or are they now? I mean, just the ridiculousness. I can't, I can't I'm going to put myself on mute because I will keep screaming.
So I had originally tried to go to, well, I didn't try hard enough, because I picked a different course that mattered more to my practice. But there was a how to advocate to your legislature, course that was happening on Thursday that I was going to go to and decided against it, and I so I went up to the ash Action Center booth, and I started talking about, you know, I'm just kind of concerned about, like, what is the value of my membership in comparison to the CCC? You know, I get the ASHA leader. And I know there's some coupons, but can you tell me more? Kind of just in what they would say, um, and he showed me the website with the coupons and things, and I started to press a little bit more, and I feel like, I mean, he smelled it immediately, and he was like, well, you can go to the leadership Q and A on Saturday, Tina and Vicky will be there. So I'm assuming I already know who that is. He's like, Yeah, smell a rat. Um, so I didn't know that they would be there. I don't leadership is huge, right? So, and I've never been to one of these things, because when you go on the app, there was no description of this event, there was no mention of who would be there, what would be happening. I bet they could have gotten a few more people, if they would have written down. There was free food.
Oh, hey gir! Caternig!!!! What?!?!
My friend. Yes, My friend and I paid for coffee in the bottom of that pike building. Then went up the stairs and was like, Wait, there was free coffee. I want my money back. So. So, anyway,
That;s where all my money went. You drank it.
You saw my post on social media. You saw my criticism that this was not in either of the main buildings. This was not in arch or Summit. This was in Pike. I don't know much else that was in Pike, besides, I think some SIG committee meetings, probably a bunch of committee meetings. There was limited signage, and I it was 9am on Saturday. So yeah, not A, not a great time that people are going to want to show up.
They do these things in the cloak of darkness, right? Like, because now they...
They were truly in the ivory tower. It was all the way up at the top in the corner.
Exactly. But now they will be able to say, Oh, well, we had this and people didn't come.
Oh, I know. And it was on the website. It there was a description on the website, but not this app that was built out that everybody was using.
But you had to look for it, and you didn't even see it before the Action Center person told you about it. And I can guarantee you 13,000 people are popping over to the Action Center to ask those kinds of questions. They need to be conspicuous with the things that they are doing. It's like this email they sent out about the upcoming 90 minute infomercial by the person who benefits most from the sale of the CCC. She's going to tell us why we should buy it. You know, yeah, she did everyone get that email? No, I still haven't gotten the email. And I've heard from a ton of people who didn't get it either, both members, non members, CCC holder. We don't know if our people did not, not everyone got the email. So that was sent to a select crowd, almost like they do with their surveys. But that is, you know, those are that is neither here nor there other days. So, I mean, let's, let's hide it. We can say we did it now, but we don't want too much confrontation. Oh yeah, because these questions weren't vetted, you guys were putting them on the spot, and that makes them....
And that Jeanette is why there was no video recording, no photos, no audio recording. Poster, poster, poster, also on the PowerPoint also said by leadership. So I have my notebook out on who looks conspicuous, but me scrolling everything down because I am not going to get on a podcast and say something from memory that's this serious to our to the membership, to my colleagues, so I looked extremely obvious, and I understand that, but that's just fine. I had every right to be there. And truly, I don't go into this with like mal intent or disingenuous intentions. I really want to hear what you guys have to say. So one of my first thing I brought up when I got the microphone, and then I'll go back to kind of set the scene. But I brought up, I said, this is a really disappointing turnout. Is there anything Asha feels that they could have done differently to increase membership participation in this event? And the reaction with like, this is not what ours is, except somebody behind me went, Well, last year there was a lot more people, and I said that I'm like, Oh, so this is like, par for the course. And Vicky was like, well, if memberships really fired up about something, we'll get more people. I'm sorry, when is membership been more fired up than 2024.
They should have asked us to announce it, we could have got ahead and posted the meeting for them, and they would have had to do one of those overflows where people have to sit in another room and watch on a TV. Because I assure you, had we posted about it, the folks would have been there. Mm, hmm. Everything they do is strategic. Nothing is a mistake. Nothing.
So they were pretty unfazed by the lack of membership, because I was looking around, I'm there. And we first started sitting kind of like in the middle, and then we were invited to come up to these white tablecloth tables. Like, oh, we really want you to, like, come up and participate more. And then they were inviting us to go get the food. And I'm not a person who's good at hiding my feelings with my face. And so I looked like I just kept looking around. Like, is this real? Like? I felt like I was like, like, a shark cage. I was like, because they were all around us, because they had been told to sit in the audience, to be like, so magnanimous and one with the people. And I was just, like, feeling kind of sick, sick. I was like, Oh, wow, this is really happening. Like, I'm gonna really have to talk, like there's nobody here, not say you other 20 people are nobody. But, um, somebody came up to me. Was like, Oh, hey. Like, smile, you know, it's a great day or something. And I was like, gotta get my coffee, because, no, I'm not gonna sit here and tap dance like this is what it is, and this is, this is sad. You're posting of 13,000 people here, and 13 are here.
You were in the presence of royalty. You should have been fainting. I think that's what they were expecting. They wanted you to bow before in the top of the ivory tower. I mean, yeah, just... I...okay, Jeanette, turn off the mic.
So we're sitting in probably the fourth or fifth row, my friend and I. There's somebody from Asha sitting behind me. I didn't catch their name, but a man named Larry came up to her.
I'm gonna interrupt you. Yeah, I also have to wonder if part of the reason they were sitting in the crowd was to make sure you were not recording or taking pictures. Oh, like the person behind you could have been seeing you take pictures on your phone, right? Mm, hmm, yeah. Again, nothing they do is by mistake. Nothing next year I will say you know what they're doing.
So you talk about your catering budget. Larry, someone comes up to other Asha leadership, and she said, Oh, How was dinner last night? And he just goes on about how amazing it was. They had a tasting menu with wine pairings, and the foie gras was incredible. Now I don't know who paid for this. He didn't say who paid for it. I'm not purporting to know exactly who this is, or where they went to dinner, or what it was, but we know they have a $1 million catering budget from last year, so audience can draw their own conclusions from that.
Was it....
I, and I've looked it up, I think it could be the director of finance, but I don't have a photographic memory, so I'm not going to say it. For sure.
Okay, so could have been. Could have been.
Certainly fits the bill.
Yeah, I was just gonna say, makes so much sense. Now, okay, good, yeah,
Yeah. And again, we don't know whose credit card was ran, but he did have foie gras, so good for him, I mean, and that's the thing is, like you're all in the audience, so you can keep an eye on us, but I'm keeping an eye on you. Don't say that stuff at the Q and A. If you don't want people to know.
That's what they don't realize there's so or this is my perception. This is not fact, but they are so unaware that they cannot continue to do the things in the way they have always done them. Because until now, speech language pathologists have never held them accountable. Audiologists have and they've kicked butt. Good job. I wish they would have included speech therapists in their efforts, and we wouldn't all be here right now, but they didn't, understandable. I get it, but this uprising has never happened, and it has never happened on this scale, because back when audiologists were doing this, social media did not exist to the extent that it does now. So for example, just put this into perspective for people. One of the lawsuits that audiologists pursued, and one of the significant ones, was in 2012 I got married in 2012 and I set up my Instagram account in the airport of my honeymoon. So Instagram certainly existed prior to that, but it was still new and not like it is today. So you know, they've not dealt with this. They they need to open their eyes and listen and hear and respond and be proactive instead of reactive. All right.
So they recognized the petition. I think I talked to you about that a little bit. They brought up three things. So Tina McNamara, current president, brought up three things she had on a slide that I was not allowed to take a picture of, that she was hearing from membership. It was number one, cost of membership and certification. Number two, Asha, bylaws and petitions. Number three, AI, and the first thing that came up was membership and certification. There's a Venn diagram pulled up, kind of between the CCC and membership, with a whole bunch of stuff in the middle. And this is be paraphrasing, but wrote down as best I could, there are certification costs at the state level, and at the level of the Action Center at the Office of Multicultural Affairs, and you can't pull those costs of certification out from one place. Well, then how did you come up with $200 and $40 separately? I don't how. So that, okay, that's that stands. Then Vicki deal Williams CEO, took the mic and she brought up the ashes, received a petition to change the bylaws. There were some chuckles across the room. I don't think I told you that yet, there were she said it was all over. Social media no longer chatter, though, and based on member feedback, the board decided not to move forward. A process has now been established for standardizing submission of amendment changes. So I'll keep I'll say what I said to this. Then, is that okay?
Wait, based on member feedback?
Exactly. So that was my first that was actually my second question after I said, Why is no one here? The AI thing? I was fuming, so I couldn't give you a great quote about what they said about AI, but they talked about research coming up. So I said, Okay. So in terms of not moving forward, when I got the mic, I said, You they talked about, okay, well, 2% came forward, but the other 98% doesn't know anything about this, pretty much what they said. And I said, Oh, okay. So based on member feedback is that, did you guys send out a communication to members after the petition was submitted in order to get feedback from the other 98% and Vick said, no, no, we're talking about, you know when we put out the 2% you know when they had that call for feedback about changing? The fact that the bylaw itself says petition can come forward and amend a bylaw. Does that make sense? How I said that
So they were making Yes, I'm on I'm following you. So they were basing their response to us on the feedback they got from their own data. A proposal.
Which no one said anything to because we didn't want so I basically, kind of was like, okay, so timeline wise, you received the petition, and then there was no further communication. Do I have that right?
Just FYI. I'm gonna go ahead and message the lawyer while you're talking the lawyer, they that they haven't heard from yet, surely, by the time I air this they will have heard it, because the letter was supposed to go out today or tomorrow. So let me put let me stop that process so our lawyer and I can have a chat. Keep going.
I so clarified this timeline essentially because I was asking a few follow up questions. Because I was like, okay, so that was before you got the petition right. Okay. And then, since you didn't communicate with the membership to let them know about the petition, and she was like, No, the only reason we'd communicate with membership is if we did amend a bylaw, and I think they were getting a little bit on that defense. That defensive and thought I was going to keep going, but I'd like for the questions I want to ask, so I just said, okay, and we moved on my other questions. I won't spend a ton of time on, but I mean, it's my questions were based on things I learned from fix SLP podcasts, where I have to pick my job off the floor every time I'm driving to work. I asked about mostly like CEUs. I was like, you know, what have Sasha considered offering CEUs for SLP, supervising CFS? Would Asha consider a sliding, scaled or tiered approach for becoming a CEU provider? Because it's very cost prohibitive for business, small businesses like mine, and the penalties for making an error are high and these questions were kind of responded to with some good just, just like, oh, we we've looked into that. We've we thought about that. Oh, we got to keep looking into that, that kind of party line. And I think those questions are the reasons that they came up to me at the end, and Vicki suggested or encouraged that I could apply to the continuing education board. I had a lot of passion and ideas about it, but based on how she responded, I mean, they've heard these ideas before, and it was like we decided not to do anything, so I don't know how I would enact any change on that. I asked about an app I and then I said, and I do want to be clear on this. I said, given the priority of the new presidential administration to dissolve the Department of Education, what will Asha do to protect students with disabilities and SLPs that work in schools? And a couple different leadership members talked on this point, and they said that they're on the defensive at the state levels, but they're also bipartisan organization, and they've supporters on both sides of Congress. They don't think they're sufficient, sufficient congressional support to make this change through legislative action, but they'll be vigilant of bills introduced. They'll people watching those legislative sessions, and there is, quote, lots of work to do. Encouraged us to monitor the advocacy page of Asha for a fully updated information steps they can take. And I said, you know, I do appreciate that you had on your website the fully fund idea Act, which for anybody who wants to look that up as s2, 217, but you can go through congress.gov to write your legislator about that. Encourage everyone to I said, that's, that's a great feature of your website. I do appreciate that. So there were these moments where I did a little give and take, and I think made them think I maybe she's friendly toward us. They're not really sure. But why is she writing so much so? Those were the questions I asked. I asked about five or six, and then they took the mic, handed it to somebody else, and rightly so, because I had been talking for a while, but I paused. You know, when they first offered the mic up, I wasn't like me, me, me. I looked around. Nobody else wanted to talk. So those were my questions. The person who spoke after me was the Rhode Island president of the State is state organization. And he said, to my point about how much it costs for continuing education to become an ASHA CE provider, that that is their biggest operating expense. And he said, What can actually do to support state organizations, especially the small, underfunded ones like Rhode Island that can't afford a lobbyist. And get this, Jeanette, I didn't tell you this yet either. They said we are looking for other ways to help you in your advocacy. Ash's finance team is going to offer to help to look at state budgets and give advice. What? You want to give advice about a budget?
I... so many words, yeah, okay. Our state organizations are already drowning. They are already on the brink of collapse because of budget issues, because there aren't enough members. So of course, the solution is to bring in Big Daddy to help who clearly is making great financial decisions that have made their members extremely happy. No. See, sometimes this is me like tinfoil hat right here. Sometimes I think they want these state organizations to fail so they can just jump right in and take right back over.
Well, I skipped this part, but they were very proud of the interstate compact at the beginning, so that they see as a win. There are several wins they talked about in different states for reimbursement of tell therapy the new codes. So, yeah, I don't know, but I don't know if I can. I have enough information to subscribe to your theories, but I'll hear more.
I want to just pause real quick to like plug here, because we've been seeing this and we got it in writing. The ASHA Action Center, as people have been calling, to change to non member status, these Action Center employees are saying recently, oh, well, there's something coming next year that will will help you with licensure across state lines. And so therefore you should keep the CCC, and when pushed further, they were referring to the interstate compact. I have been sitting in these meetings for close to two years with other SLPs for this very reason, and it has been made clear to us that the CCC cannot and will not be included. Asha is only one of the stakeholders. There are multiple stakeholders funding this effort, and it can't be required. Stakeholders cannot benefit from the compact. So we're going to be pursuing that a little bit, but I just want to make it clear, if you're hearing that, let us know, because this cannot and will not happen, and it needs to be. It's time. It needs to be formally clarified, because this, they can't do that. They can't say that. They can't do it. And I'm sure now whoever from Asha is listening to this podcast is now furiously typing the email to the Action Center to say, stop. But they've probably been given the instructions to maintain members at any cost. There's probably bonuses wrapped up in maintaining membership. So even if they weren't told to say it, they know enough to be dangerous, and they're still representing Asha. So whether they were told to say it or not, they can't, they can't. So to be continued, it's a problem that we've just encountered over the last week or so. We'll follow up.
I'll go into the let the last main person who spoke spoke a couple times. This was a member who sat right up at the front, and she she volunteered to be part of the solution, which I really admire. She brought up her own experience of emotional abuse she had endured in grad school, and I don't want to share her specific story without her permission, but like it was truly heartbreaking. And I do think it's important to note that this was a black woman because she brought up some micro, I would say, macro, aggressions that her clinical director said to her about a loss she experienced, and she said now, as a supervisor, her stuff herself. She does everything in her power to support her grad students, but she continues to hear horror stories from other placements. Advocated for beefing up qualifications for supervisors and holding them accountable. And there was a lot of leadership response to this. So I'll kind of go through everybody who responded. Tina's immediate response was on the other side, supervisors have a lot more pressure and expectations on them than ever, and the field has changed a lot in 10 to 15 years. Vicky kind of just affirmed her and said, Thank you for sharing kind of thing the VP of audiology, a fellow black woman, stood up and said, and let's be clear, it's likely that many of these students are minorities. Was the word she used, and she's heard this from supervisors, and some of these stories that the students share like she validates them. She said it's a serious ethics problem and that ASHA has resources available to address this issue. And then two past Asha presidents, both of whom were also black African American spoke up after her and one sided the PTSD, she felt just hearing that member share the story, and she said she went through similar things. So did the past president, who was male. He said that it, it was a. Really like one person that helped him through his program, and he encourages people to find their advocate, because he believes it. He went through it himself. Another leader, I'm not sure who this was, stood up someone who hadn't been through this. I don't believe themselves, but said that ASHA has a supervision crisis. She said there's an ad hoc committee devoted to or like targeting this but it is such a deeply entrenched problem, it's not something they can fix quickly. And she called what happens to grad students a cycle of abuse. So I really want to recognize that, like the leadership really validated this member. It was so sad. I mean, it was heavy in that room. It was important to talk about, yeah, but the member spoke then again and got more into detail, and I started to cry. And I don't think I was the only one. Um, it was definitely I like the topic of the discussion. I mean, I rapid fired questions at them, but this, I think, is what they will take home with them. And I hope I applaud that member, and I hope that something is done to move the ball forward on this, because they do recognize that it's a problem.
I'm glad you brought this up, and I it is an issue. I was an externship coordinator for a couple years at you know it. I'm students from placements before because of these problems. And I would take it a step even further to say it's happening in the field. It is a huge problem, and then it is perpetuated by university faculty. Not only do they have those same aggressions and microaggressions, but also, I saw this firsthand with the the person doing placements when I left my last faculty position, and there was a student who was having some issues, and It was more about protecting the integrity of the placement and not damaging that contract, because we need a place to send students. Then it was believing and listening to the student. There were so many problems at the place that I left, you know, fix SLP, was the nail in the coffin i was, i This is again a podcast for another day, because I've not spoken publicly about the exit from my job, certainly privately with many fixers, but never on the podcast. It's, yeah, I, you know, our students are adults. They're not 12 years old. These are people who want to be speech language pathologists or audiologists who are trying most of the time. They're trying their best, and when they come to us with these concerns, it's already hard enough for them to do that, because there is a power dynamic there. And and in their eyes, this is a risk to speak out.
That's and that's what the member said as well.
Yeah, when the person speaks out, when that student speaks out, it means something, and we need to listen. And I know I've heard this since I've left. My university students have said to me from that the two cohorts that I had, you were the only one who listened to us, and you are the only one who advocated for us. And I'm getting fired up inside, right?
Yeah, the member said something really beautiful to that point that really got me fired up and emotional. She said, as a supervisor, we bring this profession to life. Students want to learn from you. They just don't want to be degraded while they're doing it.
Yeah, yeah. If they hear nothing anyone is saying, I hope they're hearing this, because I bring a lot to this platform from a lot of different places, and people who don't follow us closely don't realize that I have worked in every setting except pediatric hospitals and NICU. I have been a PhD student, so I believe these stories. I've seen them happen. I've been in faculty, I've went up the ranks, I've played the game, I have seen our field from many corners.
Maybe we need to let students know that they can submit a minivan. Meltdown too.
Oh, Bring it. Bring it. You guys. Send them in! You. We should, yeah, we'll
Use a voice changer if you're feeling afraid, as Preston was saying in that other podcast. But also, don't be afraid.
Yeah, this does happen.
It does
I, you know, I've seen it, I've seen it from and I, like I said, I've pulled students, and I've refused to send people back. I could keep talking about this.
And I will say the one thing I did really appreciate from leadership, I would say this is my main positive, is they recognized that this is an intersectional issue, that this is happening across the board, but that this more deeply and more frequently impacts our black and brown SLPs. And I did appreciate that.
Yeah, absolutely.
So afterwards, I'm gathering myself, I'm drying my tears right, thinking I gotta we're gonna run to the next thing, because that's how I did convention. Was running around. Wasn't planning on talking to anyone. And up comes to Me, Kate Stevens from membership, and she said, I see you writing in your notebook a lot. It seems like you might have more questions. You have more questions. I wanted to give you the opportunity. And I was like, no, like, because you guys kind of gave me the party line about everything you said anyway, so I
They're never going to answer them. I'm not going to waste my breath.
No, I'm like, also, like my poor friends who I dragged her, dragged there. Like was like, ready to go see a poster? So I was like, No, and she's like, well, please take my contact information. Okay. I mean, I appreciate that. Then Tina came up, complimented me on my questions, as did Vicky, and said I should consider applying to the continuing education committee. And I truly, genuinely want to know? I don't. I said, from a clinician perspective, I don't know how any of that works. Can you explain to me, like, how joining a committee, how do things get passed? How do things move forward? I said, Do we all vote on something like a tiered system? She's well, no committees are advisory to the board. And she explained it probably pretty well. I was not in a great space to learn in that moment. But she she explained basically that, you know, these are, for the most part, advisory committees. I think there's only a few that are semi autonomous, like the board of ethics, because I looked into this, then after I go look them up, there's committees, there's councils, there's ad hocs, and you guys, on the website, it talks about how often they meet, and I'm sure they're exchanging emails, but it's some of them, like, two times a year, four times a year, some of them monthly. But then I we have a committee to be in good relationship with the American Psychological Association. So I was like, Well, let me look at that. Those people are meeting monthly on almost everything, and they have reports they put out to tell their members what the committees talked about and decided we don't have that on the website. Would love some transparency. There Asha, these committees? Yes, I dug into them. Two that I just want to bring up. One is the Committee on committees. This is the ASHA board by another name, Jeanette. The Committee on committees is just the board, so I don't know what's going on there, but then there's the Committee on nominations and elections, and that's, oh yeah, that's what Preston calls the self licking ice cream call. I love that term. So the Committee on nominations and elections, I'm quoting from the website, will be composed of nine voting ASHA members, including the President, elect the immediate past president serving as chair. All other committee members shall be appointed by the Committee on committees.
Mmm-hmmm. So the board is appointing, appointing, the voting committee.
The board. Jeanette, what is going on here? So it's like the least democratic membership organization. I would like to challenge anybody to find one that's less democratic than this. We get one member. What is at large?
That was a new position.
Bless.
So it just turned over. This is the this is the second person, do these new memberships start January one? Do you know, like new president? New? I don't know when the new terms start.
Oh, I do think so, for the President, yeah. But then they serve as the past president, like, they kind of still have a three year term, in a way, but it's a one year term for President to go back to that to reference. Then what Tina said at the beginning, it was, she said something like, I know people feel like they don't have a voice, but like you do, it really is important to, like, vote and confirm board members and you, you know you have one that's elected. Like she talked about that, and I was like, ma'am, this isn't democratic and and I looked into it, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but at the American Psychological Association appears to democratically elect their president by vote, not just say yes or no. So this is why the 2% Amendment by law was crucial, because it was the only check to all the power, and they are just ignoring it. I'll say again I was. Really emotional in the last moments of the Q and A, and then I'm being surrounded by three people in leadership who are, you know, paying me compliments and flattering me. And it was in that moment that I felt this like, Oh my gosh. Like, this has happened before, right? This has certainly happened before some impassioned person has come and asked a few questions and gotten maybe a little in their face, but like in the most respectful way, respectability politics, and they said, Well, that's somebody we could really use. That's somebody we need, and because they want the self looking ice cream cone, wants to mold and shape, you know, the future leaders of tomorrow to align with their agenda. Quite frankly, I'm not unique. There's a lot of passionate people, but flattery is powerful in this organization that gives us our accolades and gives us our flowers more than any other, and it's certainly the most visible and has most prestige tied to academic journals by well respected researchers right who are setting the standards for our field, but they're also mismanaging funds and losing credibility Every day that we uncover something it's so messy to be both things, and I get why. SLPs, who already feel like nobody knows what I do for a living, nobody acknowledges me. I might be the only SLP in my work situation, why that is intoxicating, or why that feels good? I'm not perfect. I absolutely used to have the ASHA ace award on my website. But what am I really proud of the courses I took which I could list out? Or am I proud of Asha for counting? You counted like and then you sent me an email about it? Yay, like. So that's off of there now. And you know what, Jeanette, I have an announcement. What's going to be off of there soon too. Is the CCC. Shut up. I'm doing it.
Dropping it!?!?!
I'm dropping it.
When we met, you're like, the CCC. And I was like, Oh girl, you'll I didn't say this, but I thought, Oh girl, you'll change your mind. Hang out with us a little bit.
I am privileged enough to work for myself. Yeah. Okay. And then after listening to think about reinstatement and stuff, it's not hard if, God forbid, I had to supervise a CF or something to grow my business, which I think if I want to grow my business, I'm going to specifically be like, I have a position for a second year. SLP, who had a really bad CF and wants membership or wants mentorship. I could do that, but, yeah, I don't have anything to lose.
Talk. Listen, I've got an appointment. We've got I know, and you still have stuff to say, but I want you to talk through that you just kind of did, but talk through that process from you telling me I'm keeping my CCC to like you just now blowing up my podcast and saying I'm dropping it. Give, give the members who give your own 90 minute information, honestly, commercial in nine minutes or less.
I decided this. I already had said I was going to drop the tracker in the membership, but I was behind on some of your podcasts, and I listened to the myth buster about the CCC yesterday, the one you did over Thanksgiving. And that's what convinced me. I was like, this is this is not something I need, and I can educate others as to why that's a it's a certificate product. It's just it's paying for someone to count that I and not only that, I wanted to say, like, California has more rigorous CE requirements. I had to do six live hours. I want to say it's a couple more hours. Not only that, I mean, I've learned so much from fixed SLP, I've supervised four CFS when I was a leader at the other clinic, and I thought they had to have their CCCS to get their California license. I was out there spreading misinformation because it like the way it is on the website, seems tied, and it wasn't like it was in Illinois, where I'm from, and so it was confusing, and I thought they needed it, and it's probably still good thing that they got it, but those requirements in California are more rigorous as well. We have to observe once a week and meet once a week. That's way more than Asha requires. I'm privileged in that I work for myself. It feels really freeing to sign your own checks and also to not represent anybody, and I just get to say my own opinion and represent myself. And I'm an I'm a special education advocate, right? So I choose to go into rooms where people aren't necessarily happy to see me, so I'm not afraid of conflict, and I'm okay to to educate when need be. That that CCC doesn't mean I'm I'm a better clinician or worse clinician. Than anybody else, and I said this on social media, being a special education advocate and believing public schools need to and must exist to support our students with disabilities is a little bit like being a fixer. I mean, like we should have a membership organization, but not like this. We need to hold the systems of power accountable, you know. And they're not the same at all. But it's that change from the outside, you know. And I think people might hear, Oh, Vicky invited you to apply to the board, and apparently I like, blacked out for this, but my friend said, I said, I'll take a card, so I have a card. I won't be doing that. But that idea that, like, I should fawn and Les Preston says, Be an ASHA fan girl, that's a person who makes half a million dollars asking me to do free labor.
Boom.
It's a no for me dog.
Mic drop. Boom.
So we have to hold these systems accountable. And I think my people may have the impression that I don't know some of this is negative. I think a lot of people don't like to sit in the negative feelings of even the things I've been putting out there. But, you know, we can't continue to just fall in line. We need transparency. And their reaction has been disappointing at best and suspicious at worst, and it's not over, and we continue to have lots of engagement. I mean, there's their recent post about caseload. I won't go into it, but I was reminded I got so much from Dr humbert's episode. I've listened to it multiple times. And when she said, Be thankful for your triggers, because they show you where you're not free. I was triggered. A lot of people were triggered, and it shows us that we are not free in that caseload and that management. And so we gotta invite everybody to take that time to reevaluate our relationships with the institutions that shape our career, Asha, our employers, our universities, who knows, regional centers, Easter Seals, school districts, state organizations. This is often an uncomfortable evaluation, because we get some sense of identity, of belonging to them. But when we belong to something, we are endorsing them with our time or with our money, and by doing, I'm not indicting anybody that's going to keep it, but just sit in that discomfort. And if there's some level of of that, like if you are feeling a value mismatch between an organization and yourself, what can you do and fix SLPs, giving you some actionable steps. You can drop your membership. You can drop the CE tracker and you can Oh, and they said they would really like to hear from you. They said the board really cares, and they do want to hear from you on their in touch forms and go to town halls and things. So let them hear. Let them hear what you have to say, everybody
You're taking us to church today. So good. We have crossed the 50,000 follower mark. We were always just kissing that line. We're a good chunk over now, across the two platforms, with some overlap, but not a whole lot. So there are a lot of people who have brought this up, so I'm just going to say it here for newer listeners. We started this movement with our very first call to action, which was write a letter via the in touch forms to the board. We collected a few 100. Not collected people, sent in a few 100. We were completely ignored. So this movement started by trying to do what they ask and doing the right thing just to be pushed off. And that's sort of how we evolved, and that's why we got to hit them in the pockets. Yeah, started to get a little nip of anger there. We tried, we did that. So I don't believe they want to hear from us. I think they think that makes us feel valued.
Mm-hmm. Don't disagree with you there, so I will be Colleen Ashford. Ms, SLP, I gotta go to a bunch of sites and things and change it and amazing. We'll let that begin. The work begin of explaining.
This is a good time to wrap up. What do you want to say? Anything you kind of already said it. You probably shouldn't say anymore. You left us at in a good place.
My only other call to action would be sign the idea full funding act. Talk to your congress people about why the Department of Education matters. Yeah. And if you want to hear more from me, you can follow me at Ashford speech and advocacy on Instagram.
Yeah, yay.
That's it.
Thanks for being on.
Thank you for having me.
I considered everybody reading a review, doing a mini man meltdown, but we are trying to keep these under an hour, and I know she and I have been recording over an hour, so I'm just going to skip the. Because that's extra editing if I have to cut them. So thank you for joining us. Go follow Colleen, be a part of the conversation we want to hear from you. I'm I am super scatterbrained, and it takes me a while sometimes to respond to people, but I love interacting with our listeners, and that's how Colleen and I connected. So please connect with us, team at fix slp.com or, you know, by messaging us on either of our socials, we eventually get to you. All right, guys, that's it. So we'll see you next week. Thanks for fixing it!
