Master Board of Appeals NEC Code Update November 5, 2020
5:53PM Nov 12, 2020
Is to order. Madam Secretary Would you please
donate and wrestle
with the knot cultural mores in your Donatello are just done is fine. Okay.
You're here I
Dave bishton Jerry boom. Carl Weaver. Yes. Tom Martinez. Jonathan, would you prefer Jonathan
or john? John's fine, john.
But then I'd like to call for any additions, comments or corrections with respect to the meeting minutes of august of 2019. Has it been that long since we've sat as a board? To sec, we had a meeting at the first of this year around them? But no. Does anyone have any additions, comments or corrections to the meeting minutes of August the 19th. Those of you that have had a chance to look at them? For once I see nothing that I have to say about the idea.
Could we get a motion that
I was just about to do that? Hey,
I move that we accept a minute.
I was in favor say aye.
Aye. Opposed? There we go. I would like to if it's time to call Mr. blas Hernandez, Chief building official for the city of Longmont to scan to present the city's case with respect to the National Electrical Code. Mr. Hernandez, would you proceed, please? Glen Ross,
welcome to our meetings. And thank you, Don Otto. The The purpose of the meeting tonight is to inform you of our plan to adopt the 2020 mec. This code has already been adopted by various cities around us. I don't know how many, but I'm pretty sure a lot of them have already adopted these. As a home rule, we don't necessarily have to adopt it. But we choose to because Longmont has a tradition of adopting the most current codes for our use. So that would include the 2020 and etc. And later this year, or I should say, later next year, we do plan to adopt the ICC family of codes, which are the 2021 additions, which will be a lot of fun. And we look forward to adopting those next year. But that's for a later time. Tonight, what I would like to do is have our electrical
Master electrician, Matt, go over some of the main items that we want to inform you about in the NDC. And I want to start with the actual amendments that we want to include into the mec you have a I sent you a copy of the existing amendments. Those are going to stay in place. We're not going to we're not going to change those. However, we do want to add a few more amendments that Matt will go over and discuss and then when Matt is done just discussing these or explaining these, you guys will have an opportunity to ask questions or any concerns that you might have regarding the FTC adoption. The adoption process does require a public hearing, but I found out that the contractors and the public just don't get too excited about the NVC adoptions. I haven't had any calls Questions concerns we had we made this meeting available to anyone who wanted to listen, I don't think we got except for one person that did call Linda, I haven't had anybody expressed any interest in this meeting. So, hopefully this will be a fairly cut and dried process. With that, I would like Matt to explain the new amendments that we are trying to adopt.
Thank you blossom. So, Darby could pull up the new amendments that were also attached in a memo.
So, after discussing with our myself and two other of our electron specters, we decided to add just the three of these amendments to the code
to the Nazi amendments,
the new amendments oppose new amendments right there we go. So, the first one is going to remove and replace some existing code text. And one of the reasons we want to revise this is to correlate with the most recent long lat power and communications construction specifications. They wanted to make sure that we have a service disconnecting means on the outside of each building, so that in case of a fire or other emergency, they can easily de energize the building. And so, we did that by changing the language in Article 230. And actually adding in a one location, the services things you mean shall be installed at a readily accessible location on the outside of a building or structure, as described below. On one or two family homes, the different Givens shall be located in line with utility ground box or transformer and accessible by the utility. The service it can mean shall be accessible by utility or non dwelling units as well. And we did add the exception in there for fire pumps.
Fire pumps don't necessarily need a disconnecting means. And so that one does not have to be on the outside.
And the second one, the bathroom lighting outlets, we wanted to add that add that into the GFCI protection requirements for single family and commercial GFCI protection shall be provided for lighting outlets installed on walls and switches within the zone measured three feet horizontally and vertically from the wall, the top of the bathroom or shower stall threshold. So that's basically so that if you are in the shower, and you reach over turn the light on you don't get shot. Oh Jeopardy if I instead of shocking you. And then the third one, we've had multiple problems with this on inspections, um, specifically on roofs on their set walls outside mounted, the other buildings have a vertical clearance, not less than 12 inches from Final Grade roof surface or similar location. We've had some problems where we go to do an inspection and the receptacle is under snow. And so we decided that in order to make sure that the receptacles are sitting at least above a 12 inch snow load.
Any questions on that?
Don, can you unmute yourself?
I don't have a question on any of them. Matt, I would just point out sort of the obvious you're making notes on basically all of these I mean, you wouldn't necessarily see the receptacle outside unless they made up a particular note of it'd be easy to miss that if you were doing a review but like the service disconnect when you're doing your commercial reviews, if you saw it like just inside you would you catch that and put that outside and mission accomplished then it would be on the plan. So therefore, you wouldn't have necessarily somebody with something to complain about. You
know what I mean? Yep.
Yeah, I don't
really have any questions or or issues with any of those three to just the whole. You got to warn them are they yeah
Yep. No other questions we can go on to the significant changes of the NSE.
Do we need to move to do that? I'd second Dallas call that emotion. And I'll second that.
Matt can't make motions. He's not a board member.
I would be happy to move that we approve the amendments to the 2020 ATC as presented by debating a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed?
All right. Sorry, not opposed those late to the party on our
shows, no one opposed the amendments. They want to review Matt, you want to review the changes now?
Yeah, you could bring up the 2020 any fee changes. So this list I made because we didn't quite get to go to class or classes that we originally had scheduled. I actually went through the codebook page by page and put together this and the highlighted ones are stuff that will really affect our day to day operations then it will run into and then the other ones are kind of stuff that stuff more for occasional iteration and our electrical inspectors really need to know the first big one is the is the GFCI protection required in all circuits on 125 volts to 250 volts. Previously it was only 120 volts Where did you said no protected but now even your two pole 140 volt ampere receptacle can be tussin protected. Though such thing as a car charger in the garage will now have to be g five protected. The next one is on all receptacles and basements need to be GFCI protected that's finished and unfinished. And that was due to mostly because of flood areas that change the next one to five protection records and laundry and bathroom sink areas and other than dwelling units. It's always been required in dwelling units for laundry areas, they decided to add in commercial bases where they have laundry areas now that and bathroom sinks they have to be GFCI protected and the next highlight one requires the switch at entry to attics crawlspaces users and basements. So previously they didn't require a light in the attic or their space if it didn't have equipment. Now requiring that it does have a light you know and then this is this is a big one all services supplying dwelling unit shut up provided the surge protection device the code specifically states that is including service changes so if somebody goes to upgrade their service or change their panel out they will have to add a surge protection device
and I'm in the 314 16 the ground wires above four wires that's will be important again for us Let's go inspectors any electricians because it reduces the amount of wires you can fit into electrical box 4069 see is what started us on getting the light bathroom light in there as well that the receptacles and not to be within three feet horizontally from a bath or shower. So as of right now there's a lot of contractors who are putting a receptacle just outside the bathroom area and now or the bathtub area can give him three feet away from the bathtub. And almost every code change they add requirements for tamper resistant receptacles in there that need to grow garages, accessory dwelling units and ferociously buildings to delete and it's common errors of multi families motels and their common areas dormitory and assisted living facility. Is the next one at some pumps, dishwashers, putting pressure on unplug connected high pressure washing machines, bottle stations to appliances, the new GE fire protection, this was just they just added more specific appliances that required you if objections that aren't included in 210 dot eight, the general GFCI.
And then the last one I highlighted mostly because we do have some hospitals and things that are being built. They require separation of lifesafety branch circuits from regular branch circuits, so you don't get any electromagnetic frequency disturbance or
anything like that.
So 706 is there's revised requirements for ISS, which is electro electric storage systems that will be batteries include, you know, mostly with solar panels and such. And there will in there, there was a lot of nomenclature changes. And that's really about it. Next one, the last one just simply means v security in the on position. So previously, you weren't allowed by code to put a lock on the fire alarm panel, circuit breaker or overcurrent protection device to keep it on, you just had to put a sticker on this says don't turn off. So now the new code allows you to actually lock that fire alarm panel in the on position. And article 800 is they're slowly moving into the industry slow moving into requiring low voltage systems to be inspected by us and this and that's just one more step toward there. What I've been told at last year's International Association electrical inspector meeting is that they hope to start requiring low voltage to be inspected by 2024.
What's the virtue of that man, um,
the lighting systems are going low voltage. And so it's gotten to the point where if you're not inspecting and going by requirements of the NDC for low voltage wiring, you're not really looking at the lighting wiring anymore, it goes to a box somewhere in the building. And then from there on, it's all low voltage wiring from a lighting control panel. And so at this point, we're not really looking at the wiring, do lights in especially commercial spaces, that with all the you know, updated technology and all the data lines we have to look at, we're going to start looking more and more at you know, you've Ethernet cable environment, a lot of communications
I'm not sure this is going to be applicable to additions and remodels.
Just in remodels the GFCI requirements at the beginning. So any added 240 volts receptacles will need to be if it's a finished basement. And now the finished basements as they're adding in receptacles those will require those to be protected. And even if they had any exterior outlets, including the air conditioners, they'll have to be GFCI protected. And then obviously, if they do bathroom and all that stuff, though, that will also be added into the or the three foot minimum and the wall
new to a new restaurant for a new bathroom but not an existing one, cutting up the house and putting in.
If they cut up the if they tear down the walls and open up the entire walls, we will require them to move it
not opening up the walls.
If they're not open walls and know if it's if it's cost prohibitive, and if they're not working doing the extent of the work isn't that much. We wouldn't make ancient that'd be grandfathered in.
You know, obviously, there's quite a bit of cost with all this extra ground. So
yeah, the ground fault and the surge protection device on service changes is going to be extra cost.
Yeah. I completely agree that there's a bunch in there, I wouldn't want to see just because of the constant fixture cost. And they wonder why these houses are so expensive. But at the end of the day, we're not really we're just adopting what somebody else has already decided. I mean state has decided by and large as much as possible. We need uniformity. That doesn't mean that I don't support the amendment changes. But you want an electrician who's licensed across the state to be able to show up in any individual jurisdiction and nobody's supposed to do and not be overly surprised. And again, that's why the plans you know, take care of what's expected on that that review. So I mean, just because I don't like it doesn't mean that I wouldn't vote for it. It's decided by the state. There's a bunch of stuff in regards to say state licensing that I don't care for, particularly with the plumbing part, but it is what it is.
a dungeon master
Mr. Hernandez do anything bad?
No. I can see Kerry's face every once in a while. Carrie, I think came in late. Carrie works for LPC.
you introduce yourself and tell the board members what you do?
You're muted Carrie, you're muted.
Okay, I didn't I couldn't hear that. My. I don't know if you guys heard that.
Gary, do you have your microphone on?
I think you do.
Trying to get to a quieter atmosphere. I'm Harry Spock. I work for long lat power and communications.
I'm the electric shock supervisor.
Cherry. My phone? Yes. Sir.
My name is Chris Potts, and she works for Longmont power communications. He is the electric metering supervisor.
Thank you, Carrie. So I guess at this point, I want to ask the board members if they have if you guys approve these changes to the FTC. Because if you guys are okay with this, our next step would be to move to City Council for them to approve it.
this is a little unusual, because in other cities, they don't go through the board to prove them. We just have to have public hearings to to announce the changes to the contractors if they're interested. But I believe the way this is set up, the master board does have to review these amendments and changes and then approve those before we can move on to the city council. At least that's that's what it was. That's what was explained to me. So if you guys have any more questions, I would ask that you guys would consider these changes for approval.
I saw we did approve that.
You guys have to vote on him though. Right?
We did. Am I missing?
out on something else?
We last approved him. forward and seconded to approve the amendments to the 2020. Okay,
I'm I'm sorry, I must have not been paying attention. That's all. That's all we're asking for. And I see Jerry is on board now. Hi, Jerry.
Are you doing Jerry? Give me is that Jerry? I believe zoom has a facility that if you set it that when you speak it automatically. I'm rooting for you guys at your facility. If we're going to use this tool
I like I like zoom but for some reason the city wanted us to
explain why that is in zoom. You can set a have a setting whenever somebody starts automatically or something like that. But anyway, hi, Jerry. How are you? Hi, fine.
I'm late. I had a conflict.
To Jerry, do you mind introducing yourself. We have some new board members. I just want to make sure everyone knows who you are and what you do.
And I'm a retired structural engineer. Congratulations on retiring. Yeah, that's great. If only we had somewhere to go and something to do.
I don't have any more for the more to, to review. This was this is what this was all I wanted to present for now. And so unless any other business um, I'm this is this is what I
learned. Go ahead.
I just have one comment and I could be wrong, but I know we we had approved the amendments, but we are adopting a new version of the code. So when we make amendments or motions to adopt the 2020, National Electric Code since we've been on the 2017.
I understand I'm sorry. I thought that was on to act on the civil was the amendments that we can't, unless we approve the code now, can we need a motion to approve the 2020 National Electrical Code item? I move that we accept the 2020.
motion has been made and seconded. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed?
I was going to call for discussion from the public. But it appears that there's nothing from the public present. Let the minute show
new business. Madam Secretary, you had some new business or you have some things with respect to nomination of new officers? Well,
I don't know you guys discuss it? We're one, you know, two months away from January. Do we want to
I mean, I don't know if you want to do that vote for a possible two meetings
or several members that
help you move? You're muted, done.
Don't use making the
zone for years. Just sorry. There are several board members, including myself whose terms expire at the end of this year. Yeah, we should wait until next year. I assume that we will be having meetings where regular would have been nice for a period of time to discuss the UI EC IBC? Yes.
Three of you members, have you decided you're going to just curious so that we might know if you're going to reapply to the board. I would be done. Dave who's not here. And Jerry.
I'm stepping down. I'm not reapplying. Alright.
Okay. Good to know.
I think I think I applied. Great. I delivered my right up to the City Clerk's office yesterday and knocked on the door and somebody came and I presented it to him and I have no knowledge but I did. Request to continue.
Good to know. Thank you.
That's all I have.
Done. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say either other business or comments from board members. Yeah, kind of a question blossom. So when we do
the adoption of the larger amendments, and that's, you know, 80 sheets or something like that. Is there an efficient way that we have Mining boards are great if we have an individual code question, right? But they're kind of inherently kind of designed for but to go through all those amendments. How is it that that that works is if we were doing that in this kind of format, my gosh, we'd all be 1000. By the time we got through,
we have the last time we approved the amendments in the code, we took it as a lump. discuss them all and approve them. As I recall, Linda, correct me if I'm wrong, but we approve them all in a single motion.
Yeah, that's what we ended up doing. We there was discussion on Okay, let's part it out to this and this and this, but they were so many. I think we we reviewed them all. Are you all? And then make one big blast of emotion?
Yes, I think would
if they were disseminated, obviously, they'll be disseminated in advance. If you put out group emails to each other, just when you know, you know, you're probably not going to have comments on the vast majority of things. But there might be, let's say, one out of five things you have a either concern about a question about something of that nature, put up
with sort of a broadcast email more has to be discussed on the record and be discussed, between members.
Gotcha. I saw even even though all members would be involved on the chat, it has to be in a meeting forum when it's good.
You know, Andrew, I just wanted to let you know that this this amendment, these amendments, I didn't give you much notice. And I apologize, we will find them in a crunch. And we spent too much time waiting for training, and then it never happened. So we were kind of delayed on this. So I apologize. But I guarantee you, when you get to see those amendments for the building code and the others, I'm going to give you plenty of time to look at these things. I'm going to give you at least a month, if more you can, you know, because it takes time to read them and understand them. So I will get I will send those out to you so that you can read them formulate your questions. And then when we have our meeting, hopefully we can manage the questions in an efficient manner in a public setting, probably carrying, like Don mentioned. So I mean, I don't know how to make it shorter and run faster. And it is difficult to do it on a video conference like this. I I agree with I agree with you. It's going to be not fun. But we have to do it. And so the best I can do is send send all of the amendments as we propose, give you guys chance to read them, and then go from there. When we go to our meeting. Hopefully we can answer the questions you guys have and then proceed from there.
It comes through business from the board. I believe we decided to see who gets reappointed retinue members may be coming in to look for installation of new officers after the first year. We will be having we will be having dude, no glasses. We'll be heading in December, ready to start discussing in the next meeting?
I don't I don't plan to have a meeting in December. Unless you guys want one.
More if you're if we're ready to start discussing the curbs then it will be January.
Right. I think well, the building codes.
We do have the bill, the building codes
are available the neomycin and that the changes have not been published yet. The changes are nice because then we know exactly what those new changes are. But those are not available at this time. So it'll be sometime next year.
Any other comments from members of the board? Mr. Landon glad to have you aboard. misdemeanors. Thank you for meeting coming tonight. Good to see you. If it appears that this would be the last time that we see you. Yeah, possibly. So. Good luck. Thank you
all For attending the meeting, I appreciate it. As always, we look to you for guidance. And your your approval means a lot to us. The next one is going to take a little more time. So I'm just hoping I hope it goes smooth smoothly. And you if I don't hear from you guys, between now and next year, have a happy holidays and stay safe and they're
in trouble with building inspections in one form or another blast, but I guess I can call for a motion. I'll make a motion to adjourn this meeting of November the fourth 2020 in the city of rock my method of appeals. Do I have a second? I Second. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed. Thanks, everybody, for coming.
Thank you very much.
Yes, sir. Thanks, Matt.
Have a good night, everybody.