(Cold Open Quote) If there was a crossover episode between Pee Wee's Playhouse and the sopranos conky would have given peewee the secret word plausible deniability.
(Skip the Middle Produced Intro) Welcome to the skip the middle podcast where we discussed the pilot and finale of a popular television show that catch one person has seen every episode and one person has seen none. Does the story work with only the bookend episodes? Does it make any sense? Is it any good? Does it leave the person that's never seen that one anymore? Let's find out together as we skip the middle
Hello, everyone, this is Mark Welcome to the first ever episode of skip the middle. The premise is pretty easy and also very complicated. We're going to talk about the pilot and finale of one series. One person has watched the entire series and one person has never seen an episode as your host. For this first episode I have chosen a very polarizing show that is, of course, the Sopranos. I've seen every episode I watched it at the time it was on. I loved it. I also had a simultaneous meltdown with the rest of the society that was watching the show when the finale aired. Here's a little background info on The Sopranos. The Sopranos is an American television series that ran on HBO from 1999 to 2007. That was graded by David Chase, revolving around the anxieties of a high ranking member of a New York Jersey crime family Tony Soprano. The series quickly became a benchmark for the American cable drama. The cast featured an amazing array of talent, including James Gandolfini is Tony Edie, Falco is his wife, Carmela and Lorraine Bronco as his therapist Dr. Melfi the series which masked 86 episodes over six seasons played off the audience's infatuation with stories revolving around the mom. Even paying homage to Goodfellas by featuring over 20 actors and actresses from the gangster classic. When the series went off the air on June 10 2007, it made headlines with one of the most infamous endings in television history. Let's see how the sopranos holds up with only his first and last episode at our disposal. Or, as Tony would say, waste management. My guest today is Laura, who has never seen a single episode of sopranos. Laura welcome. And also how did that happen? You know, when
the show came out, I did not have HBO and continued to not have HBO until years after it ended. And you know, by that time, there were lots of things that I wanted watch when I finally did get HBO but I just never got around to it. And then this came up. So now I have watched the pilot and the finale.
I have known you for a long time. We've watched many, many show together. And I've known that you have never watched The Sopranos, despite knowing that you would love the cast, and most likely the show, although a bit problematic for today, probably, but definitely a lot of characters and actors that I know you would enjoy. But yeah, it's just one of those things like the pilot was in January 10 1999. The finale on June 10 2007. But sopranos was definitely one of those things where I think when it's happening, the fever for it is so high. And then once it's over, it's like, Oh, I'll get around to it if I do. Do you think the fact that sopranos had such a polarizing ending affected? Your want to watch the show?
I don't think so. I think really, for me, it had more to do with timing. And, you know, I guess availability of HBO, especially since it's all happened before streaming services and whatnot. You know, for one thing, like, if you hadn't seen a show before, you could you could go out and it caught up while it's still airing. If all say the the episodes were available at a local blockbuster or Hollywood video, but I just also didn't watch a lot of series like that. Because I was I was actually I think still in high school when it started. And it was going through college when it ended. So it just timing wise was probably more of an issue for me. But I will say that regarding the finale, or regarding how the whole series ended, I did hear things from people about it. I don't know, I guess theories or something. But I, since I hadn't ever watched any episodes, it really didn't affect whether or not I thought that I'd be interested in the show. You know, I knew that this is something people would say about it. I still was interested in seeing it either way.
I think it also depends on how you view spoilers as a TV viewer, because some people Pull are like, well, it's not the destination. It's the journey. So if I know the ending to the show, I don't know how exactly it got to be. And then some people are like, No, I know how it ends, I'm done. I like your answer, because it's more of a situation of where you were at what you had access to. And you make a good point with streaming services, because now we're just drowning in them to the point of having one called Dog TV. So with sopranos, here's the thing. It's one of those cases where the journey is just as good as the destination, if not better. I'm not sure anyone has been stopped from watching, because they know the ending, if anything that makes it more intriguing. I do think, however, that sometimes mafia shows just aren't someone's thing. So the plot of The Sopranos are to that theme of Mafia mob. Did that ever prevent you from watching it?
A little bit, at least initially, like I said, when it came out, I was still in high school. And I didn't maybe have the same kind of interest that other folks might have in the mob and at the time. But I can definitely tell how maybe some people would have an aversion to it. And I had certain assumptions about it when going through the watching the pilot and the finale that sometimes lined up with that and sometimes didn't. So I guess you could say, my prior knowledge of Mafia type shows or themed shows, you know, I guess most notably, stuff like Godfather, you know, kind of influenced me a little bit. But I still was trying to go into this with an open mind, especially since it's something that so many people, obviously enjoyed.
Well, I appreciate you doing this crazy sociological, televisual experiment, because it is something where, if you like it, you might be like, Oh, why did I already watched the finale, but I do think that it goes back to that journey versus destination thing, I think that you can still go back and enjoy this series. But we're going to get your take, we'll first talk about the pilot, as that is something that, you know, we can judge kind of on its own, because a pilot is there to start this journey and introduce those characters. So I want to kind of get your ideas on how it did on that. And then with the finale, I've rewatched, both the pilot in the finale recently as well. So with the finale, hopefully I can fill in any holes that were missing. And I'll just get your general take on what you think of the series based solely on those two, back to back episodes, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, as it were. So let's start with the pilot. So I just want to get your initial takes. Did you enjoy that hour of television? Yes. What characters stood out to you in that pilot?
Well, I gotta say the first thing that I thought just watching the intro was in seeing the opening credits, Steven Van Zandt being listed as as an actor in the series. I got very excited about that, because I'm a big fan of little Steven and I listen to his radio shows, and I watched Lillehammer I wouldn't call it a spin off, I guess you could say that. That show was also influenced by sopranos and so I watched that whole series without having seen the sopranos prior to it, so I didn't know how much was really incorporated into it. I enjoyed that but I knew that that was also a separate thing, especially since it was done in in Norway. But as far as the character go, you know, I definitely took note of you know, you've got the obvious family family unit in addition to his mafia family, and then you've got this the psychiatrist or therapist that that he's speaking to and the therapist I I kept thinking if Kyle McLaughlin was a woman that too would look like that woman that was my instinct with that so I just kept thinking that she could potentially be this this Twin Peaks kind of character but it but everybody just seemed, I guess, very intense in in a way. I thought it was a really good I guess you could say ensemble cast just in that one episode that I saw.
I think the cast is what makes it a couple of fun facts for you now. Have you seen Goodfellas? Essentially? Yes. Okay, so you're aware that Lorraine brocco who plays Dr Melfi that you mentioned you she's the wife and Goodfellas she she was also who David chase the creator of sopranos had in mind to play Carmela but they thought it might be too on the nose because she's playing you know the wife and Goodfellas in the life and Sopranos. I think she works perfectly is Dr. Melfi and she's one of the most fun animating characters throughout the series. The other thing is that one of the runner ups for Tony Soprano was Steven Van Zandt, they had three people in mind it was James Gandolfini, Van Zandt and then another actor, but Steven Van Zandt was actually almost Tony Soprano, David Chase. And this is via the talking sopranos podcast with a couple of actors they do. They did a review show that started in 2020. Apparently, David Chase was watching an award show or something where Steve events that was doing that Pacino impression of the every time I'm out, they pull me back in which is in the pilot episode, when Tony asked him to make him laugh. Hmm. Deep plays that character so well. And we've seen Lillehammer and we'll get back to that when we're talking about the finale. But I just think everyone in this works well, and speaking of Goodfellas, over the span of The Sopranos, over 20 actors and actresses from Goodfellas. So that kind of, and I believe David Chase has said before, if it wasn't for good fellows, there would be no sopranos, because I think it has that same sort of tone. Yeah. And as far as what was going on in the pilot, so obviously, the character acting is great. But when it starts out, we have Tony, and he is in Murphy's office. So you already know, okay, he's in a psychiatrists office, he goes in, he's playing, you know, the tough guy, he doesn't really want to talk. And but then it's, but then it's sort of doing that other scene where it cuts to the house, and he's outside. And he's just obsessed with this family of ducks. So what did you think about this big tough guy and his love for animals that has shown immediately within the first three minutes of the series starting,
I think that certainly shows that he's not going to be the typical mafia guy that we're used to seeing on film, I think that's just this, you know, not only tough exterior, but also just all around tough and maybe not someone who even has a soft side or, or can be empathetic to other people or animals for that matter. And so I knew from that, that this was not going to be your typical show. But at the same time, you also see him, you know, very savagely rundown a guy nearly with his car and beat him up. And, you know, obviously being involved in a number of murders or, you know, attempted hits on folks. And so, you know, it seems like he's, he's definitely a character that was not going to be just two dimensional. And there would be, presumably a lot more to come with that.
And the fact that those scenes are sort of back to back, and also within that first few minutes, you do get a glimpse of that family strife as well, right? Because you have the kids are like, yeah, yeah, dad, whatever. And they're sort of bickering. And then you have Carmela, like kind of not really paying attention to the kids mentioning the ducks, because then she circles back and says that he's with those ducks again. So you sort of get the idea that even though they are this small, close family, that there's probably going to be some, there's probably going to be some turmoil within there at some point, especially in a few scenes later, when you see the way that Carmela and Tony interact when he's going under an MRI to see what's causing these these panic attacks. Were you shocked by him fainting, and the whole panic attack aspect of it
a little bit. I guess, like one of the theories I heard from, I guess about the whole series after it ended, was the I don't know, maybe Tony had been dead the entire time. And so I started thinking, or I was looking at scenes like that thinking, Okay, did he actually die this time? Or something? Is that is, is this actually a thing that happened? And that's what series is like, so I kept wondering, Is that the case with this, but then, you know, he'd get up and are, you know, he'd go, obviously, like, survive and went through the MRI and whatnot. And then and then he collapsed again, you know, so I, I knew that unless there was some other big reveal in the finale. That kind of changed that a bit. But it didn't seem like it was something that I was a little confused about that that rumor that I had heard or that person's theory on on the series, you know, also knowing kind of how the actor's life was cut short, not too long or too many years after the series completed, made seeing that a little bit interesting, and, in a sense, more realistic, I guess.
James Gandolfini passed away in 2013. And that was a big loss to our viewers and the acting community obviously, because his role, Tony Soprano, but he was starting to show glimpses of just having such a wide range. And the sopranos was the first big thing that he did. And then of course, that submitted him as a character and the actor as TV icons, just within the short span from 99 to 2007. There was six seasons of sopranos and I believe there were 86 episodes. They also took liberties as many HBO shows do of taking pretty long breaks between seasons and they actually wrap the show before the writers strike happened because the last big one was around oh seven, but the show was already in the can and you know, read you from here on TV, so they avoided that however, the last season had a long long gap in between it it was also one of the first big TV shows to do a season six part one and part two other shows that have followed followed suit since Breaking Bad comes to mind as doing that, so it was definitely a cinematic experience. It was one of HBOs biggest ever shows it you know, they have the whole tagline is not television, it's HBO and sopranos sort of cements that legacy for them, because then you have other things that follow Sex in the City, Game of Thrones, etc. Where people keep paying this premium and expecting premium television. Going back to what you said about Tony showing his rage in that scene where they're chasing he and Christopher he keeps he refers to Christopher as a nephew. Because Christopher's last name was Mala Santee in Tony's past, he had a mentor with the last name mol Isanti. So he, you know, it's like an honorary nephew. Like he takes him under his wing. He's obviously very lenient with them. At the beginning of the pilot, we see Christopher doing all the crazy driving, they go to get this guy. And then at the end of it, Tony, really, you know, let them have it. Like I think he he might smart off to Christopher the end at the barbecue scene where they're having AJs birthday party properly now. And he grabs him by the shirt. And so you see that rage that we saw kind of pointed at the guy who owed him money at the beginning, then you see Tony do that to one of his family members. And in this context, family being his group is mob. So what did you think of that sort of comparison and contrast of knowing that Tony Soprano can snap at any moment, regardless of who is being aggressed upon?
Yeah, it was interesting how just a few minutes earlier, when he's around the barbecue, he's spouting off these idioms and whatnot, that are kind of uplifting and the boy, I know that he's trying to pacify his friend whose restaurant has just exploded, unbeknownst to him, because of all these other reasons leading up to it. But you know, he's discussing this in a way where he started wondering, are his mob friends going to start wondering what's wrong with them? And why is he acting all soft? To the point where he's wondering, is this going to become a problem for him? But then, here a couple minutes later, he goes in, in sets off in a segment, you realize no, okay, this that reaction or or that part of him is just so ingrained in him, I don't think that's going anywhere, even if he does find peace or ways to de stress and whatnot from, you know, with the effects from from his therapy.
Laura, you had mentioned the storyline where Tony was trying to figure out a way to save Artis business because in his mind, his uncle Jr. wanted to do a hit at Arby's restaurant already was his childhood friend, which just alone is wild thinking that, Oh, no, my uncle wants to whack a guy from a rival mob and my best friend's restaurant, what am I going to do now? Did you ever think about that aspect of it? Or were you only thinking about sort of Tony solution and how that was almost even wilder to a degree to just Oh, I'm just gonna burn down the restaurant, rather than having an actual serious conversation with my uncle about why he shouldn't do that.
Yeah, I thought it was interesting about that, but and I think he did kind of have a conversation with the uncle, a little bit pathetic. I guess. Like he just said, Hey, can you not do this and the uncle kind of flipped out and he was like, Well, I'm just not going to mess with that anymore. So we're going to try all these other schemes or whatever to, you know, like, suddenly producing first class tickets to a Norwegian Cruise or whatever. And that that doesn't somehow sound fishy on its own, and also that he doesn't just say, right up front to his friend, hey, my uncle is going to try to do this in your restaurant, and I can't seem to stop him. So I think it would be better for your business if somehow you weren't open. And you know, so it's like, it just seems like, I don't think that he thinks necessarily that his friend is oblivious to what he does, or what he's involved with. I mean, obviously, his friend's wife is pretty vocal about, you know, the knowledge of, of what Tony and his family and rest of your crew are up to, but at the same time, you know, that that never comes up. So is it one of those things where he feels like, I guess one of the unwritten rules that, you know, well, we know this is it, but we can't talk about it, we have to do these alternate ways to get around the situation, or has his friend maybe been in such denial about stuff so long that he didn't want to break that I guess Mirage, or whatever the everything's actually above, above the board. But that was definitely an interesting way to go about it, where, you know, he doesn't want to ruin his his friend business or the business's reputation by having that happen, but at the same time, like, he'd also completely burned down the building, basically to blow up the building in order to to save his reputation, which also means that well, he's still gonna lose business from that, by virtue of being closed, but it certainly was a interesting way of problem solving.
If there was a crossover episode between Pee Wee's Playhouse and the sopranos conky would have given peewee the secret word of plausible deniability for the sopranos, because what you just said is a big, big theme of everything that centers around that show. That's what Carmela is dealing with almost all the time. You notice that she's very good friends with the priest, which leads to stuff later, of course, but she is in this constant state of, I know what this guy does. That's why I put up with this. I'm not okay with it, but I'm okay with it. And did you find it interesting when you saw Carmela hiding money in the soup? Can?
Yes and no. I mean, frankly, no, I, I feel like that's something that you certainly wouldn't think of as being unusual for someone who is married to someone in the mob. But also, you know, that people do this or getting various sort of the stereotype, or just even factual evidence of wives having to hide money in parts of the house, either because they're trying to hide it from your husband, and save it for themselves as like they need to get out someplace. Or it's just I guess, you could say an old fashioned thing where people sometimes would stash cash in certain parts of the house in case they needed it instead of putting it in the bank and so that they'd have cash but that it was hidden. And although I did think it was interesting that it was sent a minestrone can next you What are presumably also regular minestrone cans. I thought that was kind of funny, but I can't say I was surprised by that.
So that is an ongoing theme throughout the series as well. And at some point, you're trying to figure out, is she hiding this money? Because they have all this extra cash that hasn't been laundered? Or is she hiding this from Tony? And that comes into play in a very big way, later on in the season? Did it shock you or not when she jumped up off the couch with her bowl of popcorn and grabbed a military grade weapon? Because she was startled by a meadow trying to sneak back into the house.
Again, that's one of those things that I guess you could see it. It was kind of a surprise in the moment, but also not shocking because of certain stereotypes about I guess, mobs or people who you know, have to go through certain lengths in order to protect themselves and their family and they just have certain hiding spaces for things in their homes. And it it certainly, I guess shows you how attentive she has to be just on on an everyday basis to any kind of potential sound and whatnot that she knows that their lives are always at risk. And she knows that she has to be prepared to jump into action at a moment's notice, even when the priest is there. So.
So basically, what you're saying is you've kind of already resigned to the fact that this is a family drama that involves the mob. So anything that happens, I understand sort of that social construct of what people in the mob have to deal with. So it's not whether you agree with Carmela as lifestyle or not, you just know Oh, this is what she has to do, because she has decided to be with Tony, he's clearly not hiding anything from her. And she cusses him out for saying that at the dinner table, or at the restaurant later, however, I do find it interesting that we do see, he is very vulnerable around her because she is the first and presumably for now only person that he tells that he's going to a therapist, which in his line of work that would be seen as a big time weakness. What did you think of the interaction between Tony and Carmela in that scene, and throughout that pilot,
I thought it was definitely telling that she's put up with a lot from her husband. And that was big thing that I kind of figured was the reasoning behind her reaction to seeing her husband with the ducks, that she was just kind of annoyed or irritated about it, instead of this thinking it was charming, or at the very least concerned the fact that there were ducks in her pool, that who knows what diseases and whatnot, but you know, or the, you know, the kids are going to swim in it and whatnot. But it seems to me that, you know, like when, when the episode starts, when the pilot starts, that sees certainly in one of those moments where she feels like, she's kind of had the last straw maybe. But she also is Well, for one thing, Catholic and planning to stick around and is apparently trying to do stuff to make herself a either better Catholic, or, at the very least try to make sure that she goes to heaven, in spite of stuff that she may or may not be involved in, or at least is pretending like maybe doesn't happen. So you could definitely see that she's someone who she's certainly not oblivious to what goes on in Tony's life. Also her reaction to him saying that he's seeing a therapist, it shows that she still she really loves her husband, and she certainly loves her kids. I mean, you certainly see her tribe with her kids, at least with her daughter in in that episode, you don't see too much with the son aside from fact that, you know, they're having to do a do over of his birthday party, but that, you know, she, she wants to have a good relationship with her kids. And I think also with her husband, but at the same time, she's not going to let him just get by without any, you know, at least with some words for stuff that she knows that he's done. And then of course, you know, he, he lies to her at the table, saying that, or at some point in there saying that the girlfriend or the you know, the Mistress isn't around anymore. And, you know, not only is that not true, but here you see him when he goes into the restaurant with the mistress, and then you jump forward to seeing him go into the restaurant with the wife and the maitre d or whoever says, Oh, we haven't seen you in months. And at first that confused me because I thought how much time has gone by it? I thought that it was a you know, like, there had been a big time jump in these situations. And there had been a little obviously time that goes by over the course of that pilot episode. But then I realized later, it doesn't even matter how much time has gone by but it probably has not been months but that the guy says that at the restaurant when Tony is with his wife, because he knows the Tony needs his wife to not know that he had been there recently with the mistress. So you can also see that these he's got a lot of people in his pocket too that are also willing to help keep keep his marriage going.
I also think that when the greeter said that they said we haven't seen you in months, Mrs. Soprano. I couldn't be wrong about that. But they could have actually slipped up and done that and you are right that he had taken that other lady there and then we saw them on the boat and that risque scene so we know as a viewer early on, that he is keeping to his you know, that philandering stereotype and in turn throughout the series, she is going to take a little A bit of liberty and that like she's always going to try to be a good person, but she understands that just being with this guy, there's going to be the fallout from that activity that he's doing. She's going to try to keep herself separated doesn't always succeed in that. But ultimately, she has that windfall of the things he's doing, providing her with a bigger, better lifestyle. I think we see that in the finale where Yes, something happens. And she's looking basically at a kitchen layout for the beach. Yes. And I think that was right up there. They had a fight about something. So it's very interesting. Going back real quick to a point you made about Uncle Jr. And Tony's conversation we see in and through that scene, Jr. Still has a firm grip, because you did a massive time jump from going pilot to finale, by the time we get to finale, Uncle Jr's in a home suffering from dementia. It's very, very sad. But in this first pilot episode, he's still a tough guy. He's a wise guy. He has his own group going, he's going to call it hit in a public restaurant, which is crazy. And Tony still has to sort of like fall in line and respect him. And I think that's another reason why he has that crazy idea. Oh, yeah, we'll just, we'll just blow up the restaurant. It's fine. And then you see, you see little Steven walk down the street and casually explode the restaurant. And that was sort of, and then they're all barbecuing together. So I thought that was pretty crazy. And just a you mentioned already his wife and how she, you know, outwardly knows what Tony Soprano is and does. And everyone else is sort of just sort of floating by and I didn't see nothing, you know, that type of stereotypical thing. On the talking sopranos podcast that's hosted by Michael Imperioli and Steve Sherpa. Steve Sherpa plays Bobby who they mentioned in the finale, but you did not get to see him on screen. Steve Sherpa claims that when they screened the pilot to test groups, that RDS wife was the highest scoring character in the focus groups. And it was solely because she stood up to Tony, or stood up to that idea of calling him out and going. No, you can't do that that guy is he's a wise guy. He's a bad guy.
Yet she did seem to be the sole voice of reason in that whole episode. Because even if you're looking at the therapist, even she says, Well, I have to tell you that that doctor patient confidentiality only goes so far. So if something happened, I need to not hear about it basically, or else I have to report it by law. So it's almost like she's already telling him that she, you know, not only has an idea of what she does, but she's saying that I am warning you, and also giving you a heads up, we're giving you a choice so that things don't have to go down this path. So you know, but the RDS wife, she certainly understands the situation and understand that you can't just play by your own rules and think that they're not also doing something else that may come back to haunt you later.
That and she's ultimately going to be aware of how Carmella is treated. And this This is oversimplifying but that Carmelo is quote unquote okay with it because obviously obviously she is not okay with the situation and the cheating and the being lied to about certain things. But okay with it in the sense that I'm married into this. And so now we're going to stick it out and you'll see that resentment pop up later. Another incident that takes place in that in that restaurant and then we'll kind of wrap up the pilot and get the finale. What did you think about when Melfi comes in with that very obnoxious date who is really just giving the reader grief because they can't get a table and then all of a sudden here comes Tony and get some a table just with the snap of a finger. It's crazy.
Yeah, I fought since I skipped from there to the finale. I was not sure was this going to be someone who was a you know a regular character on the show that was maybe someone who is potentially going to be a problem and this is just the first sign of that. But you know also it it shows you how quickly Tony can get things done and how observant he might be of the situation or or how on top of things he is in a situation which he's got to be In his position all the time, so it kind of clued you into his character a little bit. You know, he didn't waste any time making sure that that was fixed.
Yes. And I just found it interesting. Even though it's within one hour of TV, that they kind of lay the seeds for Melfi to sort of fall under the trance as well to straddling that line by even bringing up the patient doctor confidentiality, she's sort of letting the audience and him know, I know what you are. And so we have to do this if you want to keep going. And I found that interesting, because she doesn't have to take him on as a patient. But there's something that you can tell she's very intrigued by him. And that lifestyle, seeing your therapist in public can be one of those situations where, oh, well, this is going to be awkward. And it really wasn't like Tony was like, Oh, hey, and then that was pretty much it. Now, I wonder if she had any sort of moral concerns about accepting a table from him, even though there's not really much you can do in that situation besides leave the restaurant, right. But it was just kind of on and especially the way Tony bounces in and out of therapy with her based on just he can't get it together. The thing that sent him sort of back to therapy, by the end of the episode was when they took his mom to that retirement community slash home. And he just again, passed out, he got a little bit heated, he passed out, I do really want to quickly talk about the relationship with his mother, if only because I forgot how many funny one liners and jokes are in the sopranos in such a serious show. When he takes her that CD player and the mom starts fussing at him and they start fussing at each other when he turns to his mom and says, I bring you a bunch of CDs. And I leave with a broken record. That is hilarious to me. Because he just goes into this pattern of criticizing his every move. What did you think about the dialogue throughout this pilot
it so like? It, it was good. I mean, I certainly didn't have any issues with it. And at the same time, it also didn't feel like they were throwing too many, I guess you could say stereotypical phrases and whatnot in there. Just to do it. I know sometimes when they do a TV show or a movie that they're trying to really get into a certain type of community or say a time period, they kind of hit you over the head with it. And I did not feel like that was the case with this, although they also very clearly did have lots of stuff that was, you know, I guess you could say typical of an Italian American community, and how a little Italy has changed over the years, it definitely seemed good in that particular line definitely stood out to me as well that, that she was the broken record. And here he's trying to bring her up to the digital age. But she's she's still stuck in the past or she's still stuck on the same thing and refuses to move on in a sense.
And then the other line that stuck out to me was in his continuing frustration with having to go to see a psychiatrist and Melfi. He said, I went to college for a year and a half. I know all about Freud. Like that. Just no, I'm good. I went to college for a year and a half.
I think he even said a semester. And that definitely stood out to me.
Okay. Yeah, whatever it was, it was hilarious. And in his mind, he wasn't even like cracking a smile. Like he was like, No, I'm serious. There's nothing you can tell me. There's no reason to go here. And then of course, I don't know if that was his second or third panic attack in that episode, but it was going to be clear, he is going to continue to see her. And he even said, Oh, the medicines working. And she's like, that's impossible. It takes longer for the medicine to kick in. So it has to be the therapy. And it's interesting because he being a wise guy and telling people all sorts of things. I do wonder if he's afraid that she's counting him by stating that or if he knows the science behind that is true. And she got me like you really can't tell and that's what's great about their dynamic is they have a lot of conversations in the in the show in the series, obviously. She's the one character I think that kind of has an upper hand on Tony throughout the series and not saying that in like a deceptive type of way. But just I feel like he shows her more respect to Throughout the entirety of the series than any other character, and then finally, to wrap up the pilot, what did you think of the conversation between Tony's mom and Tony's uncle Jr. That essentially stated that they're not happy? And maybe we should put a hit on him?
Yeah, that certainly tells you quite a bit about their characters. You know, in spite of the fact that they're old and nostalgic in a way and you know, certainly seem to want to have a connection to their family, they also feel like they're in such a position of power or or high up in the hierarchy that they, they they should be able to hit someone like toady on account of them just feeling like they're not getting enough respect. It's a lot.
It's a lot. And it's also I think it makes sense you see a lot in their scenes, you see a lot of tension, not not them being Junior separately with Tony and Tony separately with his mom. The acting is amazing, the dialogues good. It's this intense awkwardness that you've felt, you know, in the everyone's felt in their life, with people they're close to, but but not necessarily like, you know, you love them. But maybe sometimes you don't like them, and all that kind of all that kind of stuff that goes along with it. And you just see that kind of everything that he's facing. And the idea of him wanting to build up this family and be the boss, and he just wants everything to go according to plan he wants to do right by everyone, but he mostly wants everyone to do right by him. Then you have the other aspect of that with his mom and uncle Jr. Being older, and feeling like they're sort of being thrown away by both him and society collectively. And you're going to see that theme play out more if you ever go back and watch other episodes. Okay, so that was the pilot. A lot going on there. As we said, it does a lot of character building. And I assure you most everything that happens in that episode continues through season one, if not the series as a whole. So let's get to this finale. And we already spoke about the ending. And I just want to say again, for anyone listening, this is called skip the middle, we're going to discuss the finale of The Sopranos. I don't know what your threshold on spoilers is, since this aired in 2007. But avert your ears or skip to the next episode, if you want no spoilers for the sopranos finale. With that being said, Laura, what were your thoughts about the finale, and you can kind of curtail that, you know, into the ending as well.
So about the series in general, from what I'd heard about it before. And again, also just general, I guess, influence from previous mafia related film and television, and also just how things were in the pilot, I knew there were probably going to be a lot of characters that were in the pilot that are no longer there. And I was, I kept thinking it was going to start at work. Basically, everyone in there was going to be someone that's new to me, with maybe just a couple of exceptions, which meant that when the opening credits were rolling, I was very pleasantly surprised to see that little Stephens name was still there. So I was excited that he wasn't gonna, although I also knew that well, you know, you can have flashbacks and whatnot of things. So, sometimes an actor will be listed for something, but there, maybe they didn't make it. But and then, of course, you know, when we do see him, he's in a coma in appears in hospital. And, and I do know that the woman that was his wife is his wife in real life. So that was neat to see. But also then it started where you see, Tony, I think waking up in what appears to be, you know, certainly not the home, the nice home that we saw from the first step is from the pilot, and he wakes up with a an assault rifle and the rest of the family is not there. And so I started to think that none of the rest of his family was was going to be there right. I thought that, you know, over the series that maybe he was the only one left, maybe he had them bumped off or maybe they had been killed by a rival mob or whatever, or had somehow win in the case of the kids potentially had been written off the show or something just because I know at least with the son, you know, child actor type thing. So anyways, I was pleasantly surprised to gradually see more of the actors or characters that we saw from the pilot, I believe at the funeral reception that he goes to the restaurant that they're at is the restaurant from the pilot. Yeah, I mean, obviously there's some people were gone. There were other actors as specifically Steve Buscemi that I'd heard were on the series at some point that were not in the pilot that also were not there. So I didn't know where I mean, presumably, they were various actors that were just there for one season in the middle or a number of seasons and are gone already. The big thing though, that kind of stood out to me in episode is that I kept, I kept pausing the episode here and there to see how much time had gone by because it felt not like a finale to me. I mean, it I wouldn't say it felt like they were just having a normal day or something. Although I suppose you could say that, you know, this is all stuff that's normal for for their lives. But at the same time, I kept waiting for something more momentous or I, I felt like there would have been some sort of a cliffhanger that had been at the last episode that was resolved in, I suppose in a way that that it was, I wasn't entirely sure what was going on with, you know, why everyone was having to live elsewhere that they are seemingly in the witness protection program or something. And then you'll have elements of stuff like how how the sun's car blew up. And I just assumed that someone had planted that there to kill the sun. But then the reaction from the parents was more along the lines of, well, you shouldn't park your SUV on leaves because it could start a fire. And then that's what happened. And that just was not what I would think at all, I would have just assumed that someone was trying to kill my kid. I kept waiting for him to be in therapy. And of course, then he ends up inadvertently in therapy. By having to speak to the son therapist, I guess, regarding him wanting to enlist in the military, and then seeing Ed Falco's eyes kind of roll when he starts going into his his own issues and past with his mother and whatnot, and it turning into his own therapy session, instead of them being there to discuss their son. But obviously, this therapist was also interested in, in hearing his story to or hearing what what Tony had to say. So I guess you could say like the first therapist, she maybe also fell under his charm. And then also, you see at some point that the phone lines are being tapped. And I'm not sure if I wasn't sure at the time, if that was something that maybe Tony was in on. Because he was I don't know, if you'd say he was in a form Informant or he was just as part of the witness protection program, or whatever was going on there. Based on my assumption with what it meant at the finale, for it to just go blank, I would assume that he had been hit, and that the phone lines may or may not have had something to do with that, because I believe he tells someone where he's going or where the family was meeting for dinner. Yeah, and then also seeing new characters there too. But it definitely did not feel to me like a finale for the whole thing until I could kind of tell not only that, as the minutes were winding down on on the timer for the episode, but also that you see the whole family kind of assembling in the restaurant and then talking about think about the good times. And I thought I think I may know where this is going without knowing exactly how it would be no pun intended. executed. Yeah, I, I wasn't entirely sure what to expect. But it wasn't that
that finale caused people to have more grief than I remember any finale having. And I say that even in the context of us both having watched Game of Thrones, and how people kind of were groaning through that last season. And just like can this be over now. So it wasn't really the finale. It was more of the final season of that. But with the sopranos, everyone was still all in. One interesting point. The that you made is how it didn't feel like a finale. I think part of that may have to do with the fact that David Chase delayed season six part to a little because he was given he basically asked them Can I have a 21st episode. So season six had 21 episodes, which is an incredible amount for an HBO show. We're used to them having 810 or 13. Right. So they were greenlit 20 episodes, and then he basically said, Sorry, I gotta have one more I have to. So I think if you were to go back and watch episode 20 of that season That is sort of like the end. And this almost feels like an epilogue to me one of the things where I was even a little bit perplexed and to go back and jog my memory a little bit, we see Paulie walnuts, who is the guy with the gray hair. And the black wings is the column in his hair. very stereotypical, you probably remember his bit parts from Goodfellas, and things like that. He was played by Tony Sirico, who again, character actor very much falls into that mafia lie whenever people need a mobster movie cast. They go into him. He and Tony are in that car freezing to death. And you see that Tony's meeting? The FBI there. That's agent Dwight Harris, played by Matt servido. And I was like, wait a minute, did Tony become an informant or a rat? And I had to remember, I had a twofold memory moment, the show started in 99. So what happened between 99 and 2007 911? happened in 2001? Yeah, at that point, the show does become a little darker. But the characters are also talking about that talking about what happened. That agent is actually on and off throughout the series. But at some point, he tells the story about how he came back. And he's been put on a Terrorism Unit. So when Tony discovers that he is now off of the mob stuff, and he is focused on terrorism, they actually become friends. And he comes into the places that Tony frequence. And he comes but you know, he goes to the deli to get some gabagool and sandwiches. I think he comes back there for two fold reason he enjoys the conversations with Tony, I think he was working on something with Christopher. But Tony Phil's non threatened all of a sudden talking to an FBI agent, because they have like that sort of synonymous goal of stopping terrorism in the United States. And it's kind of like one of those moments where it's like, wow, you know, because no one's ever going to say Tony Soprano was a good guy. He's a antihero, through and through, or maybe even more bad than good. But it's interesting how that happens, and how they have that connection. So when you see him later in the episode, saying, you know, we're gonna win this thing after he gives away Phil the Tardos location by telling Tony, he's calling from a payphone. And then they use their resources to figure out, there's only a few gas stations around with a payphone. They finally Filia Tardo they put the head on him, and then that problem is gone then kind of come out from hiding and all that. And you also made an interesting point about I never, it never crossed my mind, oh, his phones are tapped. And he just told someone, they're going to a diner. So that could have been the FBI that could have been someone else listening. An FBI agent could have given a rival gangster information about him, just as his agent Harris gave information about Leah Tardo, who by the way, the woman that was shown with Agent Harris, in the hotel room when he was talking to Tony and telling him fully Tardos potential location, I believe she was Philea Tardos group's contact on the FBI on the other side. And so I think at some point, she gave him that face, and it wasn't like, Hey, you're on the phone, pay attention to me. It was dude, why'd you do that? And so there was a couple of moments like that where I had to sort of jog my memory. But so Tony never became a rat. But you did mention you heard them mentioned several times throughout the episode, Carlo Carlo Carlo. And he had that like he and Carmela had that kind of almost getting volatile coffee with the other couple. And they're trying to like pry information as meadows, trying to tell them about her future and law school and being you know, her fiance is saying how great she's doing and she's already been offered a job. But Tony is sitting there trying to pry on the father of his future son in law to try to get information because he knows that guy Carlo and Carlos now disappeared and they think he's a rat. And that's where the phone bugging and the phones happening and his location possibly being given away. And he's very open and candid with Carmela about what's going on, of course, because, you know, we're two for two on The Sopranos having quick and easy access to an assault rifle like I mentioned in the pilot Carmela grabbing one out the closet you mentioned Tony waking up in like the safe house or whatever bed with an AK 47. And I'll also give a shout out to the soprano kids meadow and AJ, two for two and not being able to take care of their car properly in this episode, AJ via parking it on leaves, which I didn't know was a thing but it kind of makes sense.
I didn't either. I mean, I wasn't I was starting to think back about what people said about SUVs then and I remember people We're freaking out about, you know, well you can roll it over, but I don't remember this thing about leaves.
Well, interesting that he mentioned catalytic converters because although they've been a car part, obviously forever, right, but catalytic converters are a very polarizing thing on cars now because people steal them for the precious metal. So you've, I've seen him in the news 567 times in the last year on big features, and big bust and things like that. But I never knew that they could potentially catch leaves on fire. But But where I live down in Texas, I'm not really worried about that, you know, even like during the fall, it's not like up there where, oh, yeah, you're sitting on a bunch of dry leaves on the ground, and you're parked out around grass, because he even goes, Oh, I parked on leaves, and then it blew up. And I was like, Oh, okay. Um, and then the other. The other part that I'm sure you put together that Phil Leah Tardo is basically at that point, the other rival mobster where throughout that season, it just got more and more volatile. Tony's crew had his crew, he he hit Tony's crew. You saw probably the biggest character that you saw that wasn't in the pilot was was Tony sister, Janice. You got a good microcosm of their relationship together where she was grieving for Bobby who was her husband and one of Tony's top guys that got hit by Leonardo's crew. But she was also concerned with I have more kids to raise now I'm doing this on my own. What about Uncle Jr? You know, and so Tony actually paid uncle Jr. A visit. On her behalf you saw, you know, you saw his sad demise, which to me is, you know, that's always upsetting even knowing that, Jr. was mostly an antagonist throughout the series. And as you mentioned, you thought you might see a lot of new characters or almost all new characters that you didn't know his crew was mostly intact, so Silvio, who is played by Steven Van Zandt was his equivalent of a consigliere that was his right hand man, we see him but unfortunately he's in the coma now what I would like to say to you in comfort of that I've always had the idea that he wakes up gets a new identity and that new identity was his character in he lives on and and then you see the I am great with that. And then and then another interesting point I wanted to make we had the ducks in the first pilot, the representative family and maybe his fear of losing that whether it be his actual family or his mob family, they really hit home that he loves animals What did you think of his interaction with the cat and then that cats interaction with Paulie walnuts who was freaked out that it was staring at the picture of Christopher
so I knew the cat especially when they start talking about the cat was potentially you know, a harbinger of death or going to be bad like at least and then they kept talking about it and so I thought, well, this I don't think they just put out there for nothing other the other thing too if that was okay, back in what was it 2007 When this came out the finale Yes, this this people probably wouldn't think about this or it wouldn't be as feasible. But today it absolutely would be met if the cat just showed up and especially if it had its own collar that could have been a spying device because I know that they make collars with little cameras and whatnot attached because people post your pet videos for you know with with those attached now it's easy you know, the technology is advanced the point where they have cameras that are so small that you can put a little one on your your pet's color and see what you're doing while you're gone or see what they're doing from from their point of view as opposed to having you know a security camera and in your home paying attention to them while you're say away at work but and and who knows maybe maybe the cat was was working for the enemy. I don't know that he necessarily gotten close to the cat but that he let his guard down at least with a cat to the point that maybe it's a an analogy to his undoing is because he let his guard down.
Those are two things I never considered especially especially the an animal could be a bug for surveillance that that blows my mind. But you
know what the Russians are doing it now with dolphins apparently. You know, it's it's Yeah, yeah, apparently that's a thing. I don't know how that works, I guess I'm gonna take their word for it. But of course, you know, you also can't tell a cat really what to do.
So no, you cannot. But I will say that Hollywood writers Mosa had a thing for Orange cats. Because in 1996, I believe there was that CBS series called Early Edition, where that orange cat would deliver a newspaper to Kyle Chandler before he was known as the coach from Friday Night Lights. And that newspaper would basically tell him what was going to happen the next day, and he would try to stop that crime or event from happening. And I feel like that may have been the same actor cat, maybe not. I mean, I'm sure there's mold now we have goose and Captain Marvel and some others. So orange cats making a comeback on that front. But Paulie walnuts, interesting character, definitely had his beefs with Tony, but at the end, you kind of see, Tony still has that influence over him. He's basically being given the crew that was created from the absence of this guy, they put a head on, and Tony wants him to run that crew as the leader. And he says, Tony, I don't want to be the leader, it comes with bad luck. And then he lists you know, so he is very much a man of faith and superstition, and luck and consequence and karma. And that comes to play throughout the series, you're speaking about the cat as sort of like more than just a cat makes me think if he possibly thought that Christopher, who passed away a few episodes before, was reincarnated as that cat or spirit was carried by that cat, the last we ever see you Polly is sitting, and the cat comes out and just sits by him. And he just accepts the cat, the cat's there. And he sort of just leans back in his chair, and he and the cat are both just sitting in front of that the deli where they've done so much business. And that's the last you see of them. So that's sort of like a nice thought, if that is if Christopher is that cat, and he's come to peace with it. I kind of like that ending. But then, of course, the infamous diner sequence where we have everyone's worst karaoke nightmare or their karaoke go to, which is fine. But you have journey playing, what did you think about that song choice, and it just, you know, cutting the way it does, like everything, just cutting straight to black for 12 seconds,
that definitely was an element that made me think that the scene that was building there was leading to something that was not going to be good, or that this would be the end of it, because it just seemed like wow, everything's finally lining up, you know, he's got his family together, and they're all congregated in and they're talking about positivity, in a sense, and, and then you've got this song that, you know, obviously don't stop believing, it just seemed like, Okay, this is this is too much of a build for it to not have some sort of devastating ending, which then you you don't really know what what exactly happens, you know, I think I think we can assume at the very least Tony didn't make it out of the diner, they could have picked all sorts of music for that, though, and probably would have had the same effect. So it's interesting how they pick the soundtrack for that, as opposed to the sort of music that I recall hearing. In the pilot in particular, I just kept thinking, Oh, this, this sounds like a soundtrack to like a Tarantino film where you would have this, this mix of stuff that, you know, various oldies or, you know, maybe some obscure oldies or something mixed in there even was at least one song and narrative is for sure. And like Pulp Fiction, I think song choices on shows can can be very interesting, and I knew that they were building it up for a drop.
When the pilot for sure, Steven Van Zandt had some input on the song selection there. Because you can tell like that, at least in the pilot, the last song that was definitely straight out of the catalogue of something that you hear on underground Bharat and his history with the Eastern Band, that's the type of music he likes. But David Chase supposedly curated the music for most of the entire series, David Chase, the creator of the show, also this the only two episodes he directed pilot and the finale. So that's an interesting aspect there. So to wrap this up, does this show work for you as a two hour episode of a story? Do you think it has a beginning and an end? Do you think it makes sense as a pilot and finale skipping the middle?
Yes, and no, I was not as lost as I thought I would be. I expected there to be so many changes, particularly in who was still alive. Like I said, I thought there were going to be so many different new people that I was barely going to recognize anyone. So it was a pleasant surprise to see that well, his wife and kids made it through to the end and because I thought surely, you know, at least one of them would have been hit or something it considering you already see stuff happening in the pilot. And, you know, presumably stuff happens throughout this series. But I will say that as far as it being balanced, I kept waiting for it to end with the same therapy session or the same room, one of these series that I'd heard was almost not not only the the Tony was dead the whole time, or the he died in the beginning and that well, yeah, basically, that he was dead the whole time that that him being in the therapy session was him in limbo or something like that. And although i i figured that was probably kind of unlikely if that were the case, because I didn't see any other sort of supernatural element into or it didn't seem I didn't hear about that otherwise. And I felt like that, that that would be the case, if that's how it was really ending. But I definitely thought that there, it would have ended, at least with some sort of scene with his initial therapist. But again, since I didn't see all the stuff in the middle, I don't know what happened with her. So for all I know, she was hit. And another possibility that I'd thought of was that that potentially she was working for a rival family or something or that you know, that she could be someone who committed to hit her or ordered the hitter or was somehow involved in it, especially since in the pilot, he brings up the cheese Italian that he notices that she has an Italian last name. So I was expecting her to be there, and she wasn't. So that seems a little off to me. And then again, like I said, the finale seemed I don't want to say slow. But again, it just never felt it was a little slow compared to maybe the pilot, in terms of there being just a lot of stuff that happened in the pilot. So the finale seemed more low key, but I guess if you put the two together, I mean, like it works, it's certainly not like I started the show, and then watch the finale and think that it's two almost completely different shows in terms of style, or theming, or anything. Although I will say one thing I noticed right away when you first hear Tony Stark talking is that his his speech sounded different by season six, I didn't know if that was a gradual thing. Or if there'd been something that happened, I don't know if that was an accurate choice thing. And maybe he was leaning into the accent a little more if it was just the actor personally, either with age or, you know, maybe vocal damage or something that affected his voice. But I noticed right away after having just watched the pilot that when he starts talking about his voice sounds different, you know, in in six or seven years, your your voice can change anyway. So yeah, I enjoyed it. And I was not expecting the abrupt blackout at the end of episode. And at first I thought my my laptop had turned itself off, and then the credits came on. So realize that that was that was intentional. And I can see how maybe if you had invested six or seven years of your life into this show, and watched it regularly, that this could be very frustrating for you to watch. But it it didn't bother me, I certainly didn't want to throw something at the screen. And I enjoyed it. And you know, at some point, I would still like to go back and watch the rest of the series in its entirety. And and find out what all the missing pieces are. It's also a little nice knowing that this is what the finale is and not what the rumors I'd heard about it or people's theories about what went down or what what actually happened or what was the meaning of it. Because I think otherwise I might have tried to look for that in the entire thing. And in it like in the movie When Harry Met Sally, I think Harry says that he likes to read the end of the book before he started or when he started the book because that way, if he dies before he finishes the book, at least he'll know how it ended. So that's that's kind of what this felt like. I suppose you could say that? Well, we don't really know how it ended. So or it just it just ends. In a sense, I get a benefit that Tony Soprano did not so yeah, I liked it.
Well, that quote from When Harry Met Sally, that's that could go in my synopsis page for this particular podcast that pretty much there you go summarizes perfectly. The idea behind this. I'll leave this up to you. Are there any of those gaping holes that you want to know what happened? Are there any specific characters? They would like to know their fate? Or is that something you wanted to discover at a later time?
You know, the only important thing to me was that I got to see where little Steven ended up. So you know if he hadn't been in the episode, I might have wanted to know about that. But he was there. I know what position he was in, or what state he was in. And so I feel like you know, that was the important one for me. Yeah, he
ended up in Norway. He ended up in Norway. We know that, right? Yes, exactly. Also very interesting. I did not know that was his wife in real life so So you notice a lot of stuff I didn't notice in the finale. So
I believe that is his wife in real life. And then also the actress who played his sister I every time I see this actress on the screen, I think she has faith prince who is a, also a Broadway actress, most notably known for playing Adelaide in what's probably the most popular Broadway revival of Guys and Dolls, where she was opposite Nathan Lane. And she may have even won a Tony for that. I can't remember but she's an excellent actress, comedian, singer. I think she also originated Ursula in the Broadway version of The Little Mermaid. She's really frantic. But every time I have seen her in a show, or seen the actress that plays the sister, phony sister in a show, I get excited and think it's fake prints. And then I look it up and it's not her. It's this other actress. And, and obviously she's great, too. She's appeared and other stuff that I watched that were I thought that was her but they're not the same person.
They're not you're referring to a tutorial, who played Janice soprano. Also, she played Gale on What We Do In The Shadows recently.
that was I believe that was the other one more recently that where I saw her and I thought, oh, it's her, but it was not faith prints.
So it was not okay, well, I'll let you discover all those other surprises and character exits on your own, then I'm glad that you enjoyed it. I'm glad it kind of makes sense. That's kind of the point of the show. Like we can't watch every show as much as I try to, and to be able to go back and see this pocket of time. That was the late 90s and early aughts and watch the sopranos and see what the big deal was about and the fact that he wasn't a ghost the whole time. That's, I'm glad that that kind of worked out. So with every episode, if someone liked the show, and would like to watch more of it, at some point, I'm going to suggest a top episode that I like from the series to watch. And if they don't like it, I'll figure it out. Maybe Maybe I would have suggested a different mafia show to watch sci fi like that. But since you liked the sopranos, I'm going to go out and say, there's a season three episode and titled pine barrens. It really does work as like a pocket episode, it focuses on the relationship between Polly and Christopher. And it's fantastic. So, Pine Barrens, season three of sopranos. And one last thing again, Laura, thanks so much for doing this. On your way out, I'm just going to have every person that's on the show, tell me a show that you've been putting off, it can be active, it can be already done. But what is the show that you haven't gotten to yet but you really want to watch.
So I thought of this just because when I was watching these episodes, that the ad that popped up with it was for righteous gemstone. And I have been meaning to watch that one, especially as someone who lives in the south and, you know, grew up adjacent to, you know, in communities near these mega churches and seeing a lot of this stuff in real time. And then, and then I went to school up north and I remember trying to explain to someone once about a mega church, and they had no idea what I was talking about. And and now I know because of the show people people know, or have a better idea if they didn't before. But that's something that I definitely want to watch because that, I guess you could say that kind of clip hits close to home to me, so I gotta check that one out.
We'll also being from Texas, you just made me think I've never not known what a megachurch was. So that's that was my mind. But yeah, it is. But it definitely is from being here in Texas, right. But that that is an excellent choice. And I'm gonna give a bonus one out there just so you're not put on the spot alone by this, based on sopranos and the actors and actresses and this show. One show that I've never seen a singular episode of Is Nurse Jackie starring Edie Falco, and she earns every second of screen time, just from what she did in the sopranos to have her own show after this. And so Nurse Jackie is mine. Thanks again, Laura for your time and for skipping the middle on Sopranos.
Thanks for having me.
We'll be back to skip the middle right after this.
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Thank you for listening to skip the middle podcast I've been your host Mark once again I want to give a special thanks to my guests Laura for talking about the pilot and the finale of sopranos. The Skip the Middle podcast is hosted by the right on network to see the other podcasts from the right on network including straight out of Gallifrey and feathers and foes please go to the hunters podcast.com and to support this and other podcasts go to patreon.com/write on network that's W R I G H T on network. Thanks so much for listening to a skip the middle
