Hello, hello, I am so excited to be joined by Petra Vega, the liberatory leadership coach to talk about the matrix. And the fact that it's in us, what are we going to do about it folks pages gonna back that. So, hatred, my first question to you is, how are you working to change the world today? Let our listeners know.
Yeah. So the way it looks now formally, and I think it's been part of my work over the last decade is really looking for ways and helping other folks, particularly marginalized folks do leadership differently. Like I think there's mainstream verses that we see around leadership that are really packed into the way we'll talk about the matrix really baked into white supremacy, and patriarchy and all of the other isms that aren't serving us. And I think when either those of us that choose to be a leader, and I redefine that maybe we'll get into that later in the episode. Or if we find ourselves wanting to be a connector of people and trying to create change, I think we could get stuck in some of the mainstream definitions of leadership that I'm like, Y'all, we don't have to do it this way. Like, if you are around me long enough. I'm like, there are other ways. And so I'm very curious around like, what are those ways? How can we be responsive to people? How can we be responsible for what we're putting out in the world, and the decisions that we're making and the change you want to see? So I'm excited to chat on your podcast today.
Awesome. So once again, to start with what is the story that led you from I'm assuming idealistic college student probably like I want to make a difference to yours I know of working in the nonprofit sector to what you're doing now. Tell us about that journey.
Yeah. So I always quote that I became politicized in college, I took this intro to women's studies course, in my very white Women's Studies college department. And I know there will be a question around like, how can you sense of the matrix is is happening or is here for me, and I wonder for folks who may be listening for me, it's always been like, there's something off here. But I've always had that sense about things. But I was never able to understand what that was quite. And even as I watch people and their leadership and decisions, and I'm just like, I don't know about this. And it wasn't until that course that I was like, their words for this thing. And so that just blew my mind once I learned words like white supremacy, and patriarchy, and heterosexism. And all of these things that people theorize but are that are based on lived experiences, right? That gave us this idea around the personal is political, and like I'm still there. I'm surprised by the people who are not familiar or don't like the doesn't move people, right that I'm like, y'all this, we think that this that's happening in our lives is so like, so particular to us so unique to us. But I'm like it's just a, it's a blip part of a larger thing that's happening. And so once I had the exposure to these words, I was like, it's that common that someone named it? Someone's named it? It's that common that people have been trying to work really, really hard to change it forever. And I know for me when I first had that course, I was like, Y'all, there's oppression outside.
Oh, hold the phone!
wait, 18 Maybe 19 who knows, I was like racism is still here!? Right? Yeah. And I imagine, right, because that's a lot of people. It might have been like the Freedom Summer of 2020 was that moment for people that was like, you know, come outside this way, you know. And so once I figured that out, and I came across that, and that really illuminated some of my prior experiences, being like someone who grew up poor and always felt the kind of way that I grew up in an apartment, and all of my friends had like, their nice homes, and I was raised by my grandparents and my friends had their biological parents. And so lots of stuff around family that we think is so specific, lots of stuff around culture, being a girl who my femininity didn't look like other people's femininity and having to experience the backlash of not performing in that kind of way. Thank you patriarchy and being like, what is happening here. I was like, oh, no, wait, I need to tell everyone who will listen, can even if you want to listen, I was like, I'm gonna tell you anyway. Do you know about transphobia? I was like, yeah, it's out here. Like, we should do something about this. And it wasn't until the end of college that I became a Women's Studies major. And then I minored in Black Studies, and I was like, who's gonna pay me to like, brush it down? No one's gonna pay me to be like, Okay, I'm a really good student. Let me keep going to school. So my dad actually found this social work program that had a focus in community organizing, and based on all of like, the research and my readings, and I was like, Oh, lots of activists are doing this thing called coming to Oregon. I think it seems like the way I understood it then was like, okay, the most the people most impacted by an issue are the ones creating the change. That seems like the purest way, right? Versus like a top down approach. Or let me come in and tell you what the problem is kind of approach when they do that. And so I did that in grad school and then taught from nonprofit to nonprofit learning about what does it mean to learn about leadership from the people, which is like the one of my taglines right that I'm like, I didn't. I wasn't a senior executive. It wasn't like country, you should be Oh, to the leadership role. I was like to listen to people like what are people saying? How do we figure out what people want? What do they need? How do we help people tap into their own innate abilities? And how do we get people to talk to people, right, particularly people who really care about the same things like can we help them be in conversation, which I later learned? I'm like, oh, that's baby coaching, right? them, like, how are we moving towards a goal is coaching. And so up until Fast Forward recently, where the thing that pushed me to entrepreneurship was that nonprofits love a good a good slogan, they love thinking about change. But one of the things that I named in some of the responses to your questions was around the ways that we target the disrupter. Who were the dissenters, who were the people that ask too many questions or require accountability, and really asks us to grapple with like, we got this equity, because equity value, how are we doing that? We got this accessibility value, how are we doing that we got this relationships or care about you, but people are tired, if you're tired, or people are burned, or people are XYZ, what do we do about that? And it's nice to say that people are like, Yeah, we care about it. But then when you are the person who's like, what are we doing about these things? You're gonna turn it on your back. And so me along with some other folks in my team, we decided to leave, we're like, we can't, we can't be any longer did the change that we can do. And I know, that's like a theme. And folks are leaving the traditional workforce right now that like, particularly if folks are or care about social justice and change or like, the question, we did the asking, we sat down, we had the conversations, go, I'm gonna go do something else. I'm gonna go make art, I'm gonna go be an entrepreneur, I'm gonna go travel. And I really want to help us help places do better than I'm like, work doesn't have to be this way. Particularly, it's something that we have to spend so much time doing, like a third of our lives is just producing labor. Or if you exist in the world, and you believe in purpose, and and we all have, like gifts thing to bring, there's a lot of time that we're spinning around. And I'm just like, you, I don't want us to do it this way any longer. And so I branched out, I'll say, let's see, let's see what we can do.
Amazing. So I'm curious along this journey, so you talked about noticing, you know, hey, racism, all the isms that are out there in the world. One of the things that I have talked about, and we'll continue to talk about on this podcast is like, wait, but it's in Me, too. So I'm so curious what that journey was, like, for you discovering like, Okay, I see that it's out there. But it's in Me, too. And now, what am I going to do about it? Like, what was that journey for you? Yeah.
So my first inclination that I can remember that systems of oppression is it wasn't just things that were in the institutions, what I think we can think about, but it is, mechanisms are things that we do to each other that we do to ourselves, like, consciously or unconsciously, and something that I always look back to is that I remember some of my friends who were, you know, baby radicals out here in the protests in the streets doing things, and I would see them in the streets, being like super pro, quote, unquote, progressive, liberal, all this stuff, whatever the language is now, but they will be really bad friends, they would like not know how to treat people, if they were in relationships, they would not be good to their girlfriends or their boyfriends that there was like a, I'm like, How can we talk about liberation and freedom? And your ethic of care is absent. There's no understanding around how do you greet people. But there's a an analysis that is so pristine around like, Here are the ways that things can be different. But I'm like, we're not doing that right now. In this smaller scale, which I know we'll get to like, why do you how do we shift? And for me, I was like, I came across this idea around cognitive dissonance around like, that's one of the ways that systems of oppression have a hold on us, right? Because like, even if we have these ideas around things, there might be things that are like, they just get stuck, right, that we can't even fully process and feel into other places that we can be like, Oh, no, but look at what I'm doing on Saturday, but I'm like, What are you doing on Monday? Like, how are you treating the person who is cleaning out the garbage? Like, how are you treating the person who still live in your groceries? And how can those two people different and what's the impact of that? That that is by looking at other people? I was like, oh, okay, well, if they're doing that over there, and I really respect them and the way that they show up and what they are committed to was I look like a meat right. And so I'm going to take also part of this question is like, what are the ways that I had to grapple with some of this stuff? I know for part of my black studies, classes learning right with society around these two worldviews right around this African centered worldview and this Eurocentric worldview, which is really steeped in white supremacy. And one of the things that we talked about that is like, if you talk to any woman in the world is hair, right? And this might be like, not a popular opinion, but this was my journey, right? That I was like, Oh, how can I believe in social change revolution and to say that, you know, African descendant people are beautiful, when I continue to put this give it a group up in my hair after having an agency to choose otherwise. Right. So I was someone who was raised and had a relaxers every three months since I was seven, seven. And it wasn't until I was sophomore year in college. 19, what, 12 years? 12 years? So also, what's the agreement? What's the impact of that? Right? Whatever. And but the connection I was making, that's the way is that like, The Matrix, is it nurses like oh, I my beautiful, matte, attractive unless my hair is looking at the kind of way. And so we can say like, Oh, it's just hair, but here's everything for some people, right? It's like, particularly for women of color, and so. And so when I decided that I was like, wait a minute, this decision doesn't connect with my values around blackness being beautiful. What am I gonna do about that, and I had to stick with myself. And I was like, We gotta cut this thing off. We don't need to stop that. And so my friend helped me cut off and I have a teeny weeny. She was so cute. And I was like, I've never seen what my natural head looks like. And I think that's also part of like, the way that the matrix operates is that, if you like, look up the definition of liberation. It's like freedom from freedom from limits on thoughts and behaviors. What would what would your thoughts be? What are your behaviors be? Had you not been socialized? In this kind of way? Have we not existed in this kind of world? And so that's like, the metaphor that think about my unrelaxed hair, it was like, I have no idea about the curls. What is it? Like? Does it like water? Does it not like water in the same ways that I'm like, Oh, what did my thoughts look like when they are being impacted by anti fatness? When they are impacted by anti blackness? All of these things? What are my thoughts? And looking at them being like, set that? Who said that to me? Here, what did I listen to? Why did I believe that? Does it help me do I like it? You know, that was a big one for me was like, my beauty, which connects to our worth stuff. And if I don't want people to look at me, I'm not gonna say nothin, and you need to care about like, it's just the what are the building blocks towards like, I want to make change? Well, you gotta let people see you. How do you see yourself, you know, but
I love it. And we'll have to have a follow up conversation about this. I've gone through the same hair journey. And so let's talk a little bit more about the matrix as you saw it playing out while you were working in the nonprofit sector. So you talked a little bit already about things that you observed and leadership. Let's dig into that. And let's, let's pause here. And actually, how do you define the matrix?
Looks I told you I brought notes I'm like, I re I like watched a few, I think a few maybe a few months ago, I watched the matrix, and they had matrix is a computer generated dream world to keep humans under control. Right. And so I, if you've seen any posts around like, there's one that I really liked, it talks about protests, right? The people are like, Oh, I hate protesters, right? Because it's so inconvenient. But that's the point, right? It's like The Matrix makes us believe that there are things that are convenient, right. And there are particular unspoken truths or systems of oppression or unspoken truths, or unspoken agreements that we're making around like, when you see some right and you're consciously unconsciously maybe clutching your bag. That's an unspoken agreement, right? The Matrix says that you pray to that person and you are co signing you're like, yeah, that will let me hold tight to myself. Like what, but take a moment what why did I do that? And so I think there's the matrix create an illusion, I think the systems of oppression in a way, remove the human element for a piece of efficiency, right? Because it's like, if we're all understanding particular messages or particular things to be true, then it creates things to be much faster,
right? If you had to say there were three top internal barriers that you saw people grappling with to use your language as you're working in the sector, the matrix and then what would you say those barriers were?
Yeah, I think one that was just talking to someone yesterday around being this person that cares about social change, right. And I imagine people who are gravitated to this podcast are like, I'm trying to do my best what can I do? I want to shift the arc towards justice. Right? And I think one of the things that gets us really stuck is this idea around the lone wolf right or this idea around individualism like I will be Are you the one to save it? I will be the one to change it. And I'm like, Y'all don't work that way. We likely did not. You didn't create it, depending on who's listening and what positionality we were in, it was not random. We did not write this book. We did not dream dream. And it's a nightmare for most of us, you know. And I think the idea that we are can't do it alone, I think particularly around leadership, right? Like, you're in charge. Now you do this thing. And I'm like, that's too much, right? And not not to say that, like, you can't or shouldn't take an amount of responsibility. But I think more often, those of us that feel really responsible or really desire for things to shift very quickly, we're like, Okay, well, if I just do 10, more tasks, it'll be great. But it's like, that's not how we got here, right part of the matrix is that there's a, we're all opting into it, right? And so if you're the only one that's opting out to it as an example, that's not gonna make the red. So we try to do that's not gonna carve out the thing. It's helps, right? But it's also like, but how do you bring people along? Which I'm like, it's a whole other skill set? How do you bring people along? As someone who trade a lot of social workers to try to meet people where they're at? I'm like, that is very hard, because a lot of people can't even meet themselves, or they're at, like, how can you be honest? Are you where you really are? Right? And I'm someone who is like, heal self heal the collective, there's this relationship between the self and the collective that we need to be responsive in bridging the gap between and when I see or hear people who are like, I'm just so tired. I'm like, Well, how much are you doing? Like, I understand that the work is important, but like, how much are you doing? Okay, but there's nobody else. Yeah. What are your practices? How are you building? Right that I had some conversation with some people before? We're like, well, people not listening. Okay, well, when people are like, how are you? What do you say? Fine? Are you fine, I am fine. But like, I don't trust this person. I'm like, that's the that's the practice, then we need to practice trust, because part of also the this idea around the, the individual is in cahoots with the divide and conquer, right, which is like, we all stay separate. We're like, we all have our separate boxes or separate categories. There's us and there's a damn even that dichotomy really is reinforced by this idea on the visual. And the last thing I'll say about this particular barrier is that I think when we look back at history, and we only name the people who made it in the books, right, that we think about the Malcolm X's in the Harriet Tubman said, I'm like, well, that's a way that we're also had a stilling the individual where I'm like, there was loads of people behind them around them in front of them, right. And so even the way we think about change it, we can be like, well, look at this person, like that person had lots of people. And so like, how are you in a practice of being in relationship with people moving with people grappling with like humans being human? Because the matrix tells us that like, this is the code, just follow the code, and then you're gonna get the white picket fence, but it's like, you're not gonna, you're not.
Before you move on to the next barrier. I just have to mention that. Maybe it was a couple of months ago now, or at least several weeks ago that I attended one of Petra's Playshops around this very barrier, because I'm on this podcast asking, grappling with this question of what does it mean to change the world? Because the matrix isn't me too. So I showed up, you know, to the play shop, needing some support some guidance and looking at my own stuff. So thank you for creating that space. Thank you.
That's what I and I want to intentionally named it a play shop, because I'm like, There's something I shared in a post yesterday around, there's a Instagram where I follow isn't just Instagram, I think it's indigenizing arts or something like that. Hit me up, follow me after this. But I what they were saying around like, the desire to remove the arts and any of those creative pursuits in school is because we, we will require an imagination to dream up the other world. So I think that's the I didn't name I wasn't initially thinking about it. But now that you that you say that, I think
you just said something very profound that I'm actually going to ask you to slow down and repeat again.
Okay, imagination, right, that imagination will be required for us to create a new world and I and depending on the school, how funded our school was, whether or not you were into the art or dance, there are things that will require the arts and creativity that I feel like that is also missing. Like I think again, because of the way that we think about change that we're like it's about strategy it's about implementing it's about how finesse Can I plan be right but for me, I'm like, how deeply can we feel? Wow. Oh, how? What is our I talk about this being a How can we how can we stretch our tolerance, right that I'm like, I feel like many of us have had to overcompensate for other people's lack of lack of tolerance for someone else's lived experience. And I think some of us have the opposite effect. And so I'm always like, what's the right sizing that needs to happen here and part of that is like what's what's the tolerance to hold like the duality Right. And I think the thing that can help us is imagination, which I'm reading lots of science fiction over the past few years, because science fiction is help us do that. Right. And I think there's a lot of people who are like, Okay, we did, I'm doing the protests, we are here doing electoral organizing. I'm like, keep doing that, y'all. We need everyone to keep doing that. And there are some people who are either building the skill or have the gift already around creativity that are like, what's the world right that I think about? The Zapatistas? Who said, a world where many worlds fit? And so that's really my North Star in terms of like, what's the vision that I'm like, I don't know what it would look like. But what would it look like for all of these worlds to coexist? We talk about this thing, but I'm like, what would that what would it take for that to happen? Like, for me to be on my planet, you'd be on your planet, and you're not over here trying to bulldoze my planet. But you get to live over there. I get to live over here. And we good.
Okay, so as you can hear ladies and gentlemen, Petra's over here, unplugging us all from the Matrix. I feel like where's the gravity? I don't know. We're just left.
With like water, drink water.
I'm holding on here trying to stay grounded. You know, listeners will No, I was exactly the opposite. I'm like, let me get my PhD. So when I'm an expert in this, I need to go straight and get credential eyes so that I can give the answers find and then give me answers to all of these questions. And I love that you started from the space of organizing, feeling meeting people where they are. So just so interesting, there is no right or wrong way to get on the journey. The fact is, we both found our selves here, and that's great. Yay. Okay, but we were just on barrier number one. And I'm wondering if you want to continue with this, or if you want to hop skip and jump to another question, I leave it leave the ball in your
court. Okay, I'll do I'll name the other two. And I'll try to be quick with it. But I'm like I told you, we could be here for six hours. So it's very, very true. But I'm like the lone wolf is one. And so if you are someone who's like a nobody bumped me, and I'm like, they'd be I understand, I understand how that has got you to this point. I understand that to be a very smart way of moving through life. But I, I invite you to be curious around like, how does that fit with where we want to go, though, which is always my question. It's like, here's where we are. What do we want to go though? And what do we need to get ready to get there. And even for me that I'm someone who I understand. This is where like my social work kind of background kind of comes in is around the oppression is traumatic, and we don't talk about that. And we talk about trauma, but oppression is traumatic. I didn't say that purchase help Hill has a quote, follow purchase Hemphill. But I was like well, that hit different in a kind of way. Right? And so the ways that some people are understanding the impacts of trauma now, we just went through a global we are going through a global pandemic like that is traumatic, and what are the impacts? And how does that show up in our every day, even as we try to do change? That that is something to be thoughtful of. And so I want to name some of the some of the other one that I was thinking about that I think maybe I might have kind of sort of mentioned is around the savior complex that is inherent with nonprofits, right that many of us are like, I want to create change nonprofits like that's the thing, right? And maybe some folks could incorporate elsewhere. And I think about always like, What's the origin right, as we think about like, why is it so hard to do some like, Well, how do you start, right, where it's like, here's some white middle class women who needed it was charity work, right? And so that's the origin if you understand the origin around nonprofits and social work and such, that can give us some lens, right? And so I think it's also like, as we are learning to unpack the matrix, and parts of it is like, yeah, it's in us. But also for me, it's like, how do you? How do you attribute responsibility correctly, right, that it's not just us, we're like, oh, we're messing up. We're doing the whole thing. But like, oh, there's a there's a history here. There are things that have happened, there are things I would think about how does this make sense? Versus like, how am I wrong? How does this make sense with my life experience with what I was taught what I see in the world? Because I think that kind of eases things, too. Right? Yeah. And because I have had experiences where I had a student, I used to be a peer mentor in college, because again, I was like, Y'all racism, right? So it's like, oh, gotta tell people. I was like, what are the leadership positions? I'm like, oh, people, and I had a student who went through their own politicization. And this is why I'm really invested around this idea around not the lone wolf collaboration as a practice is because this student was new to me. And so her and I weren't as deeply rooted. We didn't have as much trust that when she learned that the whole world that she thought was true, might have not been all the way true. broke something in her and so something else that I wanted to make sure to say before I keep going right in the matrix is that they said, at a certain age, we don't wake people up. Wow. And so I think about that, as I now speak about like people who are waking up 2020 People are waking up, maybe this podcast is the thing but it's also like, what's the responsibility of being woken up and tending to that?
I wish people had the opportunity to see the expressions going on. They're missing out, okay, we'll do a live one day anyway.
So the savior complex, right, and those of us who have beautiful desires for there to be changed to inquire around, where, take that, right? You share it around, like I need to go to this place, and this place is gonna give me the answers to help these people. And where that place is coming from versus like, oh, maybe these people know these people have been living these lives. And I think about like my work, I really want to support folks on the margins. I think those of us on the margins, we have so much to share, right? But we're like, not the first ones to be thought about may not have access to education. People may not have access to this podcast episode, you know, but it can make it possible make it people who need it can get it.
And everybody likes share comment come on, come
on, let's get this up in the algorithm. But I think about the people who, like who have who can teach us about things, right? Like you can teach us about work, folks who do sex work, who can teach us about education, people who don't have one, right? Like, what are those barriers? And who the people that couldn't access those things? There's answers here, there's a way that the matrix wasn't set up to support some people, those people may have an understanding, right? And so how do we come together with like, Okay, I got my, my theory over here. And I love theory, right? And I think you and I can connect with me like we are intellectual folk. And there's like, there's real stuff happening on the ground. So where do we meet those two things? And I think some of that is part of the inquiry around, like, Why do I think I need to save people? Or why is that my orientation, and particularly, I'll share this last piece around number two, I had a student and many of my students were first year and second year social work students who are like, I want to make trades, right? Like maybe they also just learned about this thing. And I don't think that I showed up in the pardon kind of way, but I was like, it's gonna take us much longer. Like, I know, I know, it feels like I did the class. I could do it. Let me do whatever the people are learning. Since I figure it out, here's the thing. And I'm like, this is your analysis. What do people think about that? How are you moving? People don't like to be told what to do. You don't like being told what to do. Right. And
that's part of part of being in the matrix. Some of us do, like being told what to do, especially as women like, I can't trust myself, I need somebody else. That's the authority figure. I was I was raised that way. Anyway.
Thank you. That's true. The scripts what are the scripts give me the script. Some people I was talking to someone who was like, just give me the plan, like you are the plan that you have to plan and you have what I see my work is like, how do we get all the Ghibli guck off? How do we proceed away some of this stuff? And can we remember the the same thing that we have intergenerational trauma and curses, we also have intergenerational wisdom and resilience. And when we tap into that, too, like,
all the finger snaps is happening. Hope it's not too bad for the audio. Okay.
So that's to write like coming, asking questions. Like, why don't why do I want to make change and thinking about, like, do and if part of the key back to the question, like, oh, I have the answer, or I think I know best or, but they don't know, like, huh, question those things. Right here. And then the last one that I'll share just as I, I'm real tired of it. And I'm gonna like use this as a soundbite and share that like red flag. Any organization who's like, we're a family here, red flag, red flag.
Tell us about the red flag.
Because I'm just thinking about, and I also have a thing about words. And so as I was thinking, I was like, Why do I have a problem with this thing? So family is defined as I look for a few a group of individuals under one roof, usually under one head. But I was sharing around the when people were like, We're family here, like, run, run the other way, wrong run. And the reason for that, right is and this is also coming, I will, as much as I can remember is to name where my stuff is coming from, because I think that's also part of the matrix is like, there's objectivity. And I'm like, That's not real, right? Like everyone has their own experience. Everyone's operating from an orientation. Even if you went to x school, you learned this system, but ever, there's, there's still your eyes are on it. Everyone has different eyes, right? Or whatever or fish people are seeing with, right. So family is described as a group of individuals under one roof, usually under one head, right? This is the individual problem again, there might be two heads, but then we have like the 2.5 children, which I'm like, that doesn't work for everybody, right folks who are non monogamous folks who are not partnered, you know, that doesn't work for everyone and for someone who has experienced family trauma, and I'm like, I'm gonna stay away from anything that resembles that stuff, right? I Okay. And so I think when we, but I understand the idea around like, oh, I want this to feel like home. And I'm like, oh, but again, homemade homemade the bee's knees for everybody. And so how are we thoughtful about like, again, this goes back to the imagination piece that we're using? Are we all in agreement around what those things mean? And what do we want? I'm like, I don't want a family, right? What I want. And the thing that I'm moving towards is around collective. And so Collective is being done by a group of people acting as a group, we are committing to together in a particular direction. But like, that's very different. And I think people can shortchange family is that but like, I don't know about your family. But I grew up with like, you don't talk about that. Which is why we have to have open conflict in organizations, right. Also part of white supremacy. We talked about, like, Daddy gets the final say, Ed, Director, middle person has the final say, that's not inclusive of the other people who, for me, I'm like, who's doing the work? Like those people should get the final say, I'm gonna be on that soapbox forever. You What else do you have? Think about the middle child syndrome, only child syndrome, all this other stuff. Like there's so many things packed into it, we bring all of that stuff to work. And then we add this label round family, for me solidifying like your dynamics at play here that many organizations have no idea how to handle. And I'm like, but you said, we, as a family, look at all the ways that people are doing family. And now we're wondering why we can't get anything done right, or a particular way. Or people are being asked to do things that people don't want to do. Like, when you set it up that way, like my family, we can't get anything done. We don't agree or we harm each other in the process. And that we bring that those same thoughts, those same things. I think in that part, maybe I do like a three A is this piece around like there's a work self and a personal self. Your stuff is gonna come in here, it's got your personal stuff, don't come to work, your work stuff, go come home. And I feel like that bubble was really broken for people during the Panini people like it was always an illusion, in the same ways that matrix is an illusion, right? But it's nice to be like ticket, take your work hat off to pick up a book, you may or may not be able to do that. Now know. For me, I'm just the last few. So Sarah on this question is like, that's a lot of people. That's what ourselves to keep up with. And that's also part of it. Like the piece, it's like, one this way with this person this way from here to there. So I'm like, where's the you then? Where's the through line of the you? That gets lost in the sauce?
So much so much richness there? Yes. All right, um, instead of diving deeper, because we could just spend the rest of the episode here, let me let me hop on over. So in your experience, how do people even start to become aware that the matrix is in them in the first place as you walked alongside people, you know, outside of the context of their students and maybe took a course like how are you seeing people plug like as professionals as adults? Yeah,
I was thinking and this is like, offer is like a kind of example metaphor, where I think about, like, the rise of Why is her name, eluding me? Cardi B, the rise of Cardi B, right. And I think about that the some discourse that I saw around, it was like, Y'all are loving her right now. Right? But like, those same girls, you see on the train, you mark them as ghetto in ratchet in all of these anti poor anti black words, but then this person gets moved into celebrity ism. And now it's like, oh, this is this is fine. Right. And so I say that to say that there's like, there are people all around us that I feel are trying to tell us about the matrix. Right, Tom tell us that, like the rules that we think like, this is not okay. And some celebrity over that thing. That's not okay. Right. Think about folks who there's like a scandal of sorts, right? Where like, scandals are bad, right? Like, that's what we're told, but like, wait a minute, this person had a scandal now they're like making bank right. But I think there's like, so many ways that people around us if we are willing to be changed by it, which is like one of my, my own agreements, right? It's like, I'm allowing myself to be changed by people. Because I think some people are like, gonna be this way and commit to it, which is also part of the matrix, right? This like, be rigid. There's firm. I don't want to say boundaries, but there's a firmness, right. But it's like, sometimes you're jelly. Right? And some of us, some of us have some mental health issues. We gotta be a little jelly. There might be a storm here, right? And we're taught that the storm is bad versus like, sometimes it's stormy. Like that just is like it's not something to be fixed. And so I think about the the ways that you might like, turn your head at company like, why are you doing that? What's about that? Right? I think about people who are loud so people get real mad about other people being loud, like why you don't feel comfortable taking up that space. You don't feel comfortable. that kind of way. And so always seeing like, I'm really perturbed by that person why? The church? You know? And I'm always lean into curiosity, right? It's like, and I think the skill around not having any judgment, which we're also not good at, right and not to say that I'm like, I got it down pat. But I'm just like, I'm very, I'm like, I'm being judgmental here, which I think is another one of the ways that we can challenge the matrix, right, that we speak the things that are true, we're transparent about things like I'm being real judgmental here, and being really closed minded, versus like, here's my statement, here's my belief, and not acknowledging where that stuff is coming from. Like, it just is, it's like it's not it's coming from a place. Here's the history behind it, right? If you feel comfortable to share, but it's also required, like, the piece I shared before around, can you meet yourself where you're at? Right? Are you someone who I always think about the the opportunities that can be missed in there be something different, right? That's the whole reason I named my business create more possibilities is like, what else could be possible if we made some of these shifts and thinking about like, what if someone asked you how you were and you're like, I'm not well, I do that I'm not well, a lot. And I'm and I still care about change. And I show up in a way and I'm like, I am not well, and but here's what I have, here's what I can offer and what I can hold, right that this isn't a game this piece around like both can be true. It's hard stuff. It's hard stuff. And what I just want to offer to people is that it's not it's not just you won, and the system is working. When all of we believe all of those things, right? We believe that we suck. They were not valuable. Good enough. Change isn't possible. I'm like, it's doing a good job then. Right? Because it's like, eat, eat. Eat the tasty steak. I don't know if you remember that scene. They were Yes, I remember that very well. He was like, I'm tired of eating the slop. And I'm like, that's fine. That's fine. Don't eat the slop then, but like don't mess with people who don't want to eat the steak anymore. Right? So if you listen to this podcast you like book that that sounds like too much work as time. Go be tired. Kobe tire yourself out. Come back to this episode when you have taken a nap. Just take a nap today. Ministry right, like, also take taking the pauses. Notice, see if things hurt, see things feel different things feel tense, feel your heart.
That's a whole I hope it will continue in the future. But people will be following you on Instagram. And they can see continue to see your thoughts about but all right, final question. We've now uncovered. The matrix is in us. Yeah. What do we do next? What do we do once we become aware?
Yeah, I think for me, this is where like the, I think, right? We're taught to be heavy about things. And so I'm like, and I like intellectual stuff. But like in the mind. And I think once you realize that the matrix isn't you. And it's not just like someone else's idea. But that there is a part that you play in a part that's in you, I really think that the next step is really going from getting some support, or finding something that's going to help you move from thinking to feeling doing being right. And I think that's the missing piece is like, we have all these lofty ideas that I love for us. But I'm like, what does that look like today? In the next 10 minutes? What can I do? Right? If what I want is one of my values in life and in my company is care, right? And so I'm like, How can I show care to myself? That looks like naps for me? How can you share share care for yourself? Right that I think that there's part of the process? And I'll and I'll offer is there's a lot of values and beliefs that are associated with the matrix around what is right, what's okay, what will help you say that I'm like, many of us do those stuff. And it doesn't work. Right. And so I think it requires us to reevaluate, but what do I believe, right? And I always like to start at values. What do you believe? And then once you have some words that you like, what does that look like in your every day and commit to that, right? We're in a new day, I don't know when it's I don't remember when it's gonna be released, but it is New Year's ish time still, right? People may have said something, but like, what's the value? What do you want to live up to over the next year over the next six months? And really thinking about like, Okay, what do I want? What is what is a piece of that look like and today, versus like, why need it needs to be large and flashy. You have to do a campaign if we're like organizers, or I need to do a strategic plan if we're like, the movers and shakers are in our position, or I need to do an assessment of sorts if we're something else, right? What does that piece look like today? Right? It might be like, checking on Molly is Molly. On your coworker, Molly, checking in on those. Is this on a human pace? What are we doing? Those little things I think about like, what's all the stuff that gets us stuck in and it's all the stuff that we skipped over? Because we're there's a output goal they're moving towards, but I'm like, but how do you want to feel in the process and how do we set it into that right like the play shop that I'm creating If I want you to play, what would be what would be the most playful thing for you to do? Right? How can you reimagine trust from a place of play put in and hold that, like, I've trusted people, and they've burned me, they've hurt me. I feel that and that is true. And if it's two people who follow emergent strategy, right, that if we need trust, if we need the relationship to create the kind of teacher we want, how are we doing that? Where does that go? People can't see me. But I'm holding two hands up, like how do we hold both? And many people are like, no one or the other. And that's where I'm like, Well, that's an opportunity to expand, expand our, what do we what can we hold in a certain time? And I'm like, don't, don't try to hold all of it right now. Right? But I'm like, if you paused during this podcast episode, that was very smart of you. Pause, pause again. Take it. Take it in stride. If this is new for you. Another y'all. If you don't watch the matrix after this, it will be real bad, right? But Neil was like, I don't my eyes hurt. It's like you've never seen before, right? Maybe some of that you're like, Hey, why didn't I know? Don't do that. Don't do that. That makes sense. How did that protect you how to bet. I know you've done lots of work around your thoughts, especially with that assumption of this. And once you once you either can do that for yourself, or if you can't, and I'm like, again, this piece around togetherness, like y'all did. You can listen to this podcast episode with me. Can we talk about it afterwards? What do you think about that? That Petra grow? That's fine. You know, like, engaged in the conflict of the debate. That's, we need that. What are we going to do? The apocalypse comes, you know, we're just gonna be constantly how do we handle it? I'm just trying to get us read.
On that note, it has just been such a pleasure to have you here. And yeah, what a treat for for our listeners. I'm excited for them to have the chance to to hear all of this.
And if you you if you are interested or curious about anything that I shared, feel free to follow me at create more possibilities on Instagram and to janiece point if you're like, Okay, I fill in it. I need to do some assessment. How do I get started, I created this workbook. I'm like it's editable. If you on the internet, you can print it do a little thing. It's not too late, y'all. I'm like, we can assess. We can ask some questions. If you'd like reflection, you're like, how do I get started? You said a whole bunch of stuff. I know I could go on I talk real fast. I'm from New York. I got there's a workbook that I created. Hit me up spot DMB workbook, gave him a little workbook get started. Start start to untangle. Open your eyes.
Yes. And check the show notes. So I know Paige had just announced her information. But it's also going to be there how you can access her on Instagram, her website, all the information that you need to know. So any any last words I give you the final word if you want to close out on the thought, yeah.
tenderness. I'm hearing a lot of people talking about like, can we be tender? There's like this meme that was like I'm calling God telling him I'm not one of the strongest soldiers. Tell him tell him it tell your people like tender, tender. What is what a softness look like what is possible. Don't Don't let people tell you that that's a privilege. Be good to yourself. Be good to each other.
Love that. All right, on that note, folks. Thank you
