Ep. 38: Financial Activism: Investing in the Future We Want to See w/ The Black Doula, Sabia Wade

5:10PM Jan 18, 2023

Speakers:

LaKia Williams

Sabia Wade

Keywords:

people

doula

reproductive justice

money

sabia

feel

book

shit

talk

work

person

angel investing

companies

black

world

capitalism

created

angel investor

funding

invest

Welcome to Black Feminist Rants where we center conversations on Reproductive Justice and activism. I'm your host LaKia Williams and let's begin. Welcome back to another episode of Black Feminist Rants. Thank y'all so much for tuning in. Y'all, in today's episode, I sat down with Sabia Wade. She is a doula, a serial entrepreneur. She runs multiple businesses. She's an angel investor. She has a new book coming out - first time author - called Birthing Liberation, that will be out March 2023, so get it on pre-order. We're going to talk about that later in the episode. But she does such amazing work. And we just talked about her experience navigating the world, Reproductive Justice, and navigating the financial sector and just being a lifelong learner. She talks about going to multiple internships and fellowships to learn more about the financial sector and how she's used those experiences to, one, invest in companies that reflect the world she wants to live in but also to support her in her business ventures. So without further ado, let's jump right in. Hello, Sabia. Thank you for joining me for an episode of Black Feminist Rants. To start us off, can you introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, and a few words about yourself and the work that you do?

Yes, so let's see. I'm Sabia, Sabia Wade. My pronouns are she/they. Who I am what I do? I always say, by trade, I'm a doula. My other labels can be anything from CEO, entrepreneur, author, just a lot of, a lot of things over there. But also most important: Black luxury expert. Most important.

Okay.

Right.

Yes. I knew about the doula ,the CEO, entrepreneur, I wanted to talk about all of that. I didn't know about the luxury, what was it? Expert?

Black luxury expert.

Black luxury- Okay, we're gonna talk a little bit about that, too. I want to know more about that. But before we jump in, can you tell us a little bit about your Reproductive Justice story? Or a piece of it that you'd like to share?

Yeah, let's see. So the way that I got into Reproductive Justice was actually I was, like, a baby gay, out there in the world, figuring things out. I was actually in, I was a CNA for like years. And I was working in hospital settings and all that, and I was working- Philly was, like, my last place that I worked in hospitals where I was, like, direct care. And I was like, I thought I wanted to be a nurse. Thought I wanted to be a doctor. I was like this is what Imma do. But like after working in so many different facilities in different locations, and seeing how impactful like race played into their care, seeing how much income played into their care, just seeing health conditions across the board for Black and brown folks, specifically. And just seeing like, just a lot, you see a lot When you're in that space. So long story less long. I moved to Massachusetts, I was being a baby gay. My ex was up there. And I was like, I need to figure out if this is going to work.

Oh.

It didn't work. I knew it wasn;t going to work. But I needed to like go.

You needed to try.

I needed to try. So but before I went there, I had- In Philly, I had heard about doulas. And so at the time when I was in Philly, I didn't have the time to like really, like figure it out. I was kind of like looking around, but really didn't have the time. But when I decided to move to Massachusetts, I was like, Okay, I can't just go there for my ex. Like, I have to find something that's for me. You know what I mean? I was like, I'm already obsessed with her. I don't need to, you know, like, if it doesn't work out, which I knew it wouldn't, I need to make sure that I'm doing something that's aligned with myself, you know? So I knew I wanted to be a doula. I started looking up doula, you know, like things in Massachusetts. I found the Prison Birth Project. And so the Prison Birth Project, I hit them up. Long story less long, I ended up becoming a doula with them. And I worked with incarcerated, formerly incarcerated folks as well as folks in substance use and in recovery. And so coming into that setting as a doula is not a very quote, unquote, traditional way to come into it. You know, people usually, you know, come into it, in a more, either because of their own birth trauma, honestly. Or they come into it with more of a perspective of, like, rainbows and babies and that kind of thing. So, so starting off, like going into jails, right. On a regular basis, and, like, meeting people who are like, you know, in deep struggle and deep trauma and deep life things, you know. Can I curse? Are you okay with cursing?

Yes, of course.

Oh, I just had to make sure. They're in like deep shit, you know, like, it was a different perspective. So Prison Birth Project, coming into the space, we went right into Reproductive Justice. There was never a separation for me. Whereas some people kind of like, you know, become a doula and then learn about Reproductive Justice. It wasn't that for me, it was always like this is all that this is what this is. Right? And we do full spectrum work, meaning that we care for people through all types of reproductive experiences from birth to postpartum to abortion to whatever, and we care for everybody, right? So queer or trans, this, whatever, rainbow, whoever you are. So that was my introduction into it. And that was in 2015. And it is now the center of all the work that I do.

Wow, that's so amazing that you just started this in 2015. And you're already where you're at now, like so much growth, so much success in such a relatively, relatively short amount of time.

Yeah, you know, I talk about it often like with my friends or with my therapist. Because it's like, one, it's one thing to be a doula and to be, like, the type of doula that I am, right? So it comes with its own trauma, right? Secondary trauma, direct trauma, whatever. And then, you know, building the things that I've built, you know, my nonprofit, my own, my own world, Sabia Weight and BADT (Birthing Advocacy Doula Trainings). And I have like a wine company. That's my passion project. It's on pause right now, so don't worry.

Okay! I didn't know about that.

Yeah. Right now I'm focusing on my trucking company. So that's being, you know, built up. And so

You do everything.

I be doing a lot, but I can't help it.

Hey, whatever brings you joy, all your passion, do them all.

Yeah, I feel joy from- I feel joy from, like, creating opportunities for others. I feel like even my trucking company, it's called Loads of Pride, because I'm gay as hell. So it's about like,

I love that. [laughs]

So it's about centering BIPOC, queer and trans folks and getting them employed, right. Like getting them into positions that they want to be in, their freedom, their money, whatever the case it. So it's a lot, right. And like, there's times where honestly, like, I have to sit because I have like whiplash, right? Like, I'm like, Oh, wait, wait, what's going on? It's a lot that, like, you know, I'm still adjusting to and I feel like when I do finally have that moment where I adjust then it's something else that comes that I'm like, oof, right. And the adjustment is, like, fine, but sometimes there's the hardship, right, of like, I won't say hardship because I love myself. But I'm always- I'm often in spaces where people don't look like me, because of the growth. Right? But that also inspires me to help other people get into those spaces, so that I'm not by myself or one of two.

You covered so much in that one answer. There's so many things I want to pick apart and, like, talk about. One thing is that you brought up the trucking business, and it's called Loads of Pride, and you really want to give Black, queer and trans people opportunities. And I know that connects with your work as an angel investor as well. So can you talk about how you got into angel investing? And like, what that, really what it is and how you got into it? And what you do?

Yes, so I'll give you like a short understanding of angel investing. So basically, when- I always say like, when you see companies that you're like, let's start with Uber, let's say Uber, because people know Uber, and this is actually true. So- So what Uber, you look at Uber now, you're like how did they get like all over? Like everyone around the world knows Uber. Like what is happening? And so what happens is, is that when they come up with the idea to come up with a plan, sometimes the plan is already in progress, people will start looking for investors, right. So in that process, they usually start a different series. So it's like pre-seed, seed, series ABC out LMNOP. They start with pre-seed and seed, usually, which is like foundational money, but they know like, I may not be able to get this from, let's say, a venture capital office, which I'll talk to you about in a second. And I may not be able to get it from a huge bank loan, right? Because we don't have the history to say that we can do this. So they'll go into angel investing. So angels are people that are qualified, because you have to qualify to invest in these companies, right. So you may give, you know, anything from $1,000, to somebody might give $25,000, like whatever, whatever it could be $100,000 depending on what they have going on. But the part about that that is beneficial for the angel investor is that when this person, when this company eventually grows, becomes public, right, and, you know, stock market, all other kinds of stuff, then that person gets back their investment. So that investment can be 10 times fold, it could be 20, it could be 30, could be 40, depending on the company, how you know how much they've raised over the time. So for me, I came to angel investing because after I started making a certain amount of money, people were like, Oh, you could do this. And I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

Right?

I was like, I was just talking about, like, literally, I was like, I don't even know, I don't get it. Right. So I- My friend connected me to my friend Jana Turner. And she helped me to like learn to navigate what it is. And then also I did a class with ClassRebel ran by Brooke Harley, which I'm now an investor in, and they teach about angels and angel investing, right. But the other part that I also want to say is that, after they do the angel investing, some people also go into venture capital, right. So venture capital is the space where they also invest, but they invest more as they're investing other people's money, right. But so it's like people out here who have a lot of money, they need to do something with that money for tax purposes. So it's not just sitting, right. And they give it to these firms to invest for them, right, in bulk, if you will. But venture capital firms, what they do is usually take some of the equity, but they also come with a large check. So they can come with 100,000, they can come with a million dollars, they can come with that kind of stuff, right. But the thing that I learned was like, Oh, shit, this is how people are- like these big companies are becoming big things and becoming like companies that are around for years. And also, this is how people are making their money by investing in other companies and you know, 5-10 years down the line getting their money back. Wait a minute, right. So when I became an angel investor, it was important for me to invest in the future that I want to see, right. So I invest in companies like Poppy Seed Health, ClassRebel, and other companies that will create the future, in my hopes, right. And that's kind of part of my kind of, like, I guess I would say, financial activism to, like, invest in the future that I want to see when I can.

Ooh, I love that. I say this on every episode that I always learn something new. But for this episode, like I typically learn something new about stuff I have a little bit of understanding about, but I'm learning stuff I never even knew existed.

So no, and there's a thing- No, but let me tell you, right. So I ended up last summer. Last summer? I think. I did my first internship at my financial firm. So these, like, financial advisors, all that. And so like, I did it, because I was like, I don't care about the money, I don't care about anything, I want to learn things, right. And that's invaluable to me. So if I'm sitting here with college students, then I'm sitting here with college students. I don't care, right. So I did my internship with them. So they're a financial firm, they manage people's money, people that have a lot of money, right. And so I learned, in that space, how people move their money, save their money, double their money, prepare for, you know, life, when they want to retire, like all that kind of stuff, right. And then this year, I did a fellowship about venture capital. So I can understand the ins and outs of, like, doing the deal, creating a firm, these kinds of things, right. And so like, the thing that has been really astounding to me is, like, how much impact- I know, I knew that people with money have a lot of impact. Let me get that- lemme put that out there. But there is a clear, like, pathway to like when things like Roe gets overturned, or different rules are made, that has nothing to do with people's, less about what to do with people's bodies and more about where the money is going, and where- how people want money to move. And so when you see up here, different shifts, and how people are navigating their money, putting their money, whatever the case is, you then see the effects in the political world, right. And that, to me, was kind of like the most impactful thing. To really understand that obviously, some people are really trying to just control other people's bodies, right, because their own belief systems about abortions, or this, or whatever. But a lot of it, it's really just we don't care about what nobody do. We just care about where their money go, and where we want it to go. And then that impacts the legislation that we see on the ground. So I just be all up in it.

Yeah, I love how Reproductive Justice people and social justice people, we can connect anything back to the issues on the ground. I love how you just connected all that back to abortion rights and controlling people's bodies. So just to clarify, are you saying that you can literally, you can see how people are moving- people with tons of money are moving their money and see how that impacts the policy?

For sure.

Oh my gosh.

For sure. And so the thing is, there is so- there's a couple of financial firms, and venture capital firms too, that are more socially like impact investors, if you will. So there's a particular one, and I cannot think of the name right now. But they literally every month, like legislation is happening, whatever. They literally say like what companies invested in what, what companies moved over here, and also how to like divest your money to help them to shift to the other side, right. Like it's all about money. Like it's, you know, so it's like, it's very clear pathways that help you understand, like, oh, they did this, because the benefit of that would be this for them later on. It had nothing to do with nobody's body. It's just about how much money they want to make. But also it brings in how much power we have in where we put our money. Does that make sense?

Yes. I love that you said that. This is how- this highlights how it's so important when we're talking about social justice and Reproductive Justice and all these issues that we also center capitalism, like that can't be something that we talk of, like peripherally. Like that's one of the central problems of like the issues that we're trying to tackle. And I feel like you've just brought that full circle.

For sure. And like that's like a big part of it is like where we put our money really does, like if we actually looked into like, I mean simple things like I don't want to, you know, put nobody out there. Like, for example, let's say like Comcast, I'm saying it right now, but you know, just don't think anything of it right now because I don't have any details for that. But when we think about like putting our money into Comcast and how, like, Comcast can run, if they're supporting something that is like, we don't want to support the liberation of people's bodies, we have to think about, like, how many of us are using Comcast? Right? And when we think about current, like, 2020, right, when everyone was like, oh, you know, bringing out my email about black lives and all that other stuff. It really was about the money. It was about, we have to put a public statement out here because people are moving their money in a way that they never have before, right. But then it's, you know, shit dies down, and then people go do they want to do.

Right. Yeah, this reminds me of, I don't know if they've changed since, but Chick-fil-a, and how, you know, everybody loves Chick-fil-a, but they actively fund conversion therapies. At least they did in the past. Not sure if they still do it. And you think, oh, I'm just buying a $10 sandwich, but you're actually funding the oppression of queer people.

Exactly, exactly. So I think like, you know, a part of at least for me, and, like, where, where I'm going from, you know, obviously, I've been in this work for not that long but I mean, for a little bit. That's the connection that I've made. And that's the work that I'm doing around like, how do I create a pathway of access and knowledge, right, to everyday people like myself, right. I feel like a lot of my knowledge that I get was not because I don't work hard. I understand that I work hard, my businesses flourish because I work hard. But it was happenstance, in the sense of like, I wouldn't have known this, I wouldn't know about these, these things over here and investing and venture and this and that, it was because of where I got this level up in my business, all of a sudden, all this knowledge was available to me, right, all these options were available to me. And if you're like, you know, making like a regular, you know, amount of money, average amount of money, which most people do, and I have too, you just don't have access nor time, right, because time can be a privilege, to even really understand what these things are. So I feel like my job, one of them is to take this information, synthesize it, make it accessible, and make sure that other people with like, everyday people like myself, that were able to utilize it to create the future that we want.

Yea, and I wonder, because we talk about, like, where we put our money is important. But I do wonder, like, to what extent is it just like kind of blaming the individual? Which we do need to hold ourselves accountable. But I'm sure that every company like, okay, Wendy's might not and I'm just making something that Wendy's might not fund conversion therapy, but they might do something else for environmentalism, or they might do some other things that we don't, that's not a part of our beliefs. And I feel like every company's gonna have something that doesn't align with our values. So that makes it very difficult as consumers because no matter how anti-capitalist we want to be, we do have to spend money, we do have to give our money to things to exist and survive in this country in this society that we live in. So how do you combat like both those things as being true?

Yeah, I mean, I think like you said, they're both true. And I think that part of it is prioritizing, right, what is most important to us, right. So you know, for me, I'm sure I participate with companies that are doing like environmental harm and things like that. And I also prioritize like bodily autonomy, right, obviously, that's my thing. So when I think about like reproductive health and care and things like that, I prioritize that and the people in the companies that I work with were invested in, right. And so like, for me, it's like, I have to be honest with myself that no one's gonna check all the boxes that I need them to check, right. But if I had five boxes to check, can you check four and we could work on that fifth, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, I think, you know, and I think a lot of times, even in our, like, you know, path to creating change and creating impact, we can just get so overwhelmed with so many causes.

Yes.

And then it's like, Damn, I can't do nothing.

Yeah. And-

And it starts, it's like, like, you're, like, taking away from yourself, because you can't move. You know what I'm saying, like?

Right. And you said earlier that time is a privilege, and people might not have time to learn about different things. And I feel like that applies to the conversation we're having right now as well. Because, like, the thing with Chick-fil-a, like, that was very publicized, it was very easy to know, but all the other things that companies are doing that we don't know who's gonna think to look into that? Who's gonna think I have to, before I buy this item, I gotta research every person that organization, that this company funds? People aren't gonna have the time for that. So I feel like that just makes it even another layer that makes it more complicated and why we can't, like, fully blame the individuals but also, again, take accountability. It's like this double-edged sword.

For sure. And it's also like when we think about, like, at least for me, right, like one of the things that I aim not to do is to be judgmental, right. And I'm a sagittarius, so my brain-

Me too!

it goes to hmm, right. So. But like, for me, when I think about people, when I think about capitalism, specifically, capitalism was created to keep us away from ourselves, right. So it was, it was created so that we don't have as much time as we as we need, right, and want. It's created, so that we don't we have just enough, but not enough really, right? So with that comes, like you said, this time deficit, it comes with this attention deficit, to be honest, it comes with, you know, like, a joy deficit. Right, because you just don't have the time to do the things and to take care of yourself and to and to move in a way that you need to, to really be a full, holistically like healthy person, right. So with that, and knowing that, and being someone who experiences that maybe differently, right, like, I cause I'm like, you know, in my path of building businesses that comes with privilege, right, like, I may not have racial privilege. I mean, I have like some things, but I have gained privilege in my own way. But I think like, we have to be mindful that because of capitalism and the structures that exist, that for people to get the messages that they need to get, it has to be synthesized, and it has to be accessible, right. And it has to come from people that they have access to.

Yes.

Or, or they're not going to get it. And it's not their fault that they don't have the time to go and understand Chick-fil-a's, you know, employee manual, and where they get the money from. They don't have time for that. And it's not their fault, but because I do have more time for that, Imma do that work. You get what I'm saying?

Right. Yeah, you said that capitalism gives us just enough but not more. We get just enough to survive in capitalism. And I feel like that's such a good point. Because I feel like that's what really hinders, like a broader class consciousness. Because when people feel like they have just more than the bare minimum, they feel like they're good. They don't have a real reason to protest or revolt. But I feel like we saw during COVID, a lot of people were destitute. And that's when we saw things start to shake. We saw we were getting the relief checks, we were- things were actually changing. Gas was going down, like, it became a little bit more manageable for people to survive when the government started making small changes, because it was like this more so this class consciousness, because so many people were affected. And I feel like capitalism does this thing where there's some people that are going to be completely destitute because of capitalism, but we have a majority of people who have just more than the bare minimum to where they're not going to want to risk protesting and like joining into this class conflict, and I feel like that's by design. And I'm so happy that you said that.

Yeah, it's for sure by design, right? Like, it's for sure by design. And I think like, oh, there's so many things I can go into. But like, you know, like, like I said, like, capitalism is created to keep us away from ourselves, right. And I think if- so, being a person, like in the last two or three years, like, you know, business- business has been decent and good. So like, I've learned, and I've acquired more stress in a lot of ways. But also, more options in a lot of ways, right. So there's been times that like, if I don't want to work, I'm not working, right. If I feel physically unwell or mentally not in for the shit, I'm not doing it, right. And that in itself is a privilege that most people, and at points in my life, I definitely wasn't afforded. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, with that, I know and I see that when I've had those times, right, and when I've had the ability to get from just being present to thriving, right, it changed so much about my experience on this on this planet, right? My confidence increased, my ability to gain knowledge increased, my ability to meet people who are not in my circles increased, my ideas increased. My ability to get those ideas to fruition increased, because I had people who were like, hey, like, but all that comes with time. It comes with time, it comes with energy, it comes with being able to sleep, it comes with not thinking about where my next check is gonna come from, right. Like if we think about money, like money have you in a chokehold every day.

A tight one, too.

Every day, because it's like waiting for the ball to drop, right,. Like I save a little something over here. But if something happened, that shit gon' be gone, right. And like when you're constantly in that circle, right, of money, work, family, get out, what I got to do tomorrow, do duh do duh do, like, how can you think about the future? How can you think about innovation? How can you think about knowledge? How can you think about wellness? How can you think about any of that shit?

Yeah. How can you think about any pressures?

And all of that shit is on purpose.

Yeah. I love that line. How can you think about innovation? When you're trying to just survive and get through day to day, you can't move from that survive to thriving.

You can't, right, and I think like even when I think about, like, you know how much money is truly available, and I know that my mindset around how much money is available, it's actually a blip of what is actually available, right. But it's cause I can't think to a certain level yet. I haven't, you know, gotta get to a certain place to be able to think to a certain level, but even with just the thinking that I do have and the circumstances I have went through is like, I think about the people that do work and have been doing this work for so long, and are so smart, and have the resources and know what to do to solve these issues, right. When it comes to Reproductive Justice, when it comes to, you know, race, nutrition, like whatever it is, they know it, but they just don't have the resource to just dive in. In order for you to innovate and to create, you have to have time. Like you can't- like I was just an interview literally today. And we talked about systems, right? We talked about like, you know, the barrier of systems in the sense of, like, getting to collective liberation. And I was like, you know, yeah, they're all bullshit. I mean, like, like, they just are right. They're created for certain people. People are currently in a fear of those things shifting, which is why we see all this upheaval, like, whatever. But I was like, the thing about me is that I'm always thinking about, let me learn what I can from this old system. Let me see what works, what doesn't work. And then let me build a new one, righ. And I work on like, what that new system is going to be all the time 'cause I'm obsessed. But I also know that that's a privilege, right, that I get to learn about these systems and these systems that don't fuck with me. And also have the time to be like how do I innovate something new. That's a privilege.

Yeah. It's important though to do. It is a privilege, but it's important that if you have the privilege to be doing that work, and to be thinking about those things, so that's great that you're doing it. This was- this was a good conversation. I'm learning a lot about just everything really the financial sector, how it connects to capitalism, how money literally impacts policies, like you knew it, but how you just outlined it and just described it was like, wow. This is- really money impacts everything. Well, you did mention that you have several businesses. Can you talk to us a little bit about what those businesses are? And then I want to ask you, you know, kind of how you got started as a business owner.

Yeah, for sure. So I, my first business technically was my own doula practice, right, which has evolved into just like my brand Sabia Wade, so I do anything: consulting, teaching, dadada, whatever. Then I have my nonprofit For the Village, which I created in 2018, which was like my first official business on paper. And so and it's based in San Diego, we provide about 200 families with doula care every year. And we, we train people in the community for free and pay them. So that th actual doulas reflect the actual community. Then I have Birthing Advocacy, Doula Trainings, and that is my doula training organization. We have trained 1000s of people now since 2018, all over the world, from anything from full spectrum care to postpartum to birth and disability to we're actually do an addiction and recovery course coming up. We do all types of things over there. And my team does a whole bunch of things. I also emphasis on team, I do not do everything by myself. Amazing people that do the work, okay. And then also, like I said, my passion project which is SOLOTIS wine, because I like wine. So I thought why not have my own? And then my current, like heavy focus is my trucking company Loads of Pride, based in Georgia. And that's what I have so far.

So far. Let me count 1, 2, 3. I think I got five.

Yeah.

You're doing a lot of great stuff. So how do you- I know we talked about venture capital and angel investors. How do you find the funding specifically for like the trucking company, the SOLOTIS wine, BADT, how did you find funding to get these projects off the ground?

I'll tell you the wild part about finding out about angel investing is that I was, like, bootstrapped all my businesses and still do. So I was like- So bootstrap meaning that I, you know, create, I'm funding my businesses, right. So for me, it was, you know, a cascade, right. Like, one business, you know, I make this much money, and then I invest in the next business and like, so it's always been all the things that I have had been funded by me. And they start very humble. And I build, right. And I think the biggest thing to kind of emphasize with that is one of my friend now, but also my business coach, at one point, Ash Robinson. She was kind of the first person to tell me like, you could build a business by yourself, right. And that's fine. Like you could be a one person, thing, right, machine, and there are- but you're gonna tap out, right? Because there's only so much one person could do. And that mean that tap off could be around $500,000 a year if you got things running efficiently. And of course, there's people online who are like, I have one business and I made $2 million a year, but that's not the average. You know what I mean? It's not. So like, the first thing that like I kind of learned from her is, like, if I want to do what I want to do, I have to have a team. And so like, even though I may be like, you know, maybe I'm making $200,000 for the year, and, you know, let's say 50,000 of that is going towards team members. That's okay. Right. So what my kind of business model has been has been bootstrapping, and when I have, soonn as I get the access to add someone, or be able to pay someone for the work, getting them on the team, and then it multiplying from there.

Wow. I feel like a lot of Black and brown people do bootstrap their businesses.

Girl, I didn't know nothing about angel investing. Like when I tell you that shit blew my fucking mind. I was like, and then I'll tell you this one story.

Okay.

So when I first started, like you know, a couple years into working for myself, whatever, I don't know, three years, something like that. I was looking for loans, right. This is before the pandemic. I was looking for loans. I was like, okay, if I get a little loan, it'll give a little cushion. You know what I'm saying? Because you need a little cushion. Denied. They was like, sis, no. Sis, absolutely not, right. And I'm like, dang. Okay, so, pandemic starts, whatever I really, it was a bountiful year. And I remember I went to the bank, to it was like 2020, maybe like halfway, maybe like six months into the pandemic, maybe. And I went to the bank, and I hate going to the bank. But I went to the bank. And I walked into, like, make a new account or something. I remember I walked in, and I start talking to the person and they were like, Oh, come on, you know, the desk over here. And then they just start over, like, Oh, here's a $10,000 credit card, just for, like, being a member of the bank, and because of your income, or whatever the case is, and then was just like offering me stuff. And I remember just like, bro, yo know how hard I was trying for a $1,000 credit card, and y'all was telling me no, right? But I remember just being in that space and being like, Yo, like, it's like, this is such a different energy from when I was at the beginning, not even six months ago. And now because y'all see a certain number in my account. Now, it's like, Y'all want to give me stuff that I was, like, fighting for and needed. It's wild.

Yeah. And that highlights how the people who have the most need typically don't get those needs met, they don't get that support. And they what do they say you need money to make money. I feel like that's what you've just laid out for us.

That's exactly it. And then when I learned about angel investing, and I was like, oh, people are getting 1000s of dollars from people that are just giving their personal money in hopes of, you know, making money at the end of this, but it's a pathway, right, like people also angel invest and the company closed down and you get nothing, right. So it's a risk that you're taking. But, like, it was amazing to me that there were so many options for, for even just people being able to get loans. And not having no history of a business yet, like in a way that I was like, I never had access to that. I didn't know about certain things. But also when I tried it was a no, over and over, may I say. So I was like-

And you still made it happen. All those things and you still made it happen.

For sure. I mean, you know, we're gonna get it done.

Right, regardless, every single time.

Period.

Period. And I do want to talk a little bit- I know we're running a little short on time, but I want to talk about-

You're fine.

-your organization For the Village and you said y'all support 200 families with doula care for free. You also train people in the community to be doulas. Can you talk more about that organization?

Yeah, so For the Village, so I was living in Massachusetts when I did Prison Birth Project for two years. And then I moved over to San Diego because I personally had two surgeries because I had a fibroid. Of course, so I had open abdominal surgery. Then a year later, I was having complications, and I had a second surgery because my uterus had attached to my bowel. So I was like in Massachusetts, and like all this happened in like two or three years I was in Massachusetts, like becoming a doula, a whole bunch of health stuff, like whatever. So I was like it's time for me to go. Like, I need to move somewhere different. Like I want to move into the sun. So I moved to San Diego. When I moved there, I started volunteering at my hospital program. So I did the training, whatever. And I wasn't really too like hype about a hospital program, but it really wasn't no other options. So I did it. And I was like, mm. And so, like I had like helped out with this other hospital program. And I liked the person who was like running it, but I was like mm. So then I was like, I need to create my own thing. Like it has to be you know, I have to pick my own thing. So long story less long, created For the Village. Our doula program started by I was the main speaker for Black Breastfeeding Week for WIC. And I remember I put this this like glass jar on the table and I was like, if you put your name in there, it's a raffle, I'll pick one person. I'll give them free doulas services, right. And so I was like, Yeah, this is a great idea. So I did my little speech or what have you, I looked at my jar, and it was like, six, maybe six or seven people in there. And I was like, I can't say no to anybody like I like people need this. This is not like a luxury, this is a necessity. So I hit up the people that I was like, I want to train with you, I want to work with you, I want to. I was like, Hey, I have some people that are looking for some doulas. I will train you in the process of making this happen. And that's really how our doula program started. And since then, we've served hundreds of people since then. So and we train people, like I said, of the community, to be a part of the group, because our clients are usually low-income marginalized folks. And when I was in the doula training programs, I went to, no shade to them, but everyone was white. And I was like eh. So our doulas have, they speak many different languages, many different backgrounds, they're a true reflection of San Diego. And it's just been amazing, honestly, to see like how you can, when you take out your ego of like, Oh, I'm gonna save everyone, right? Because that's not gonna happen. And when you and when you switch it to how, what impact can be made, if I'm teaching, if I'm hosting, if I'm right, and like, you have touched so many more people than I can touch individually. And like, that has really been a gift.

I love that you made the line, when you take out your ego and just focus on impacting people, I feel like I really resonate with that. I was pre med and undergrad, you know, it's just like the grind. Like you just take the classes, you do the things just so you can get into medical school. And I feel like this post grad era has- Era. This post grad time has really been

Yes, era.

Period. Has been about me just sitting and focusing and being like, Why do I want to be a doctor? Like, is it just for the title? Is it just for the money? Is it just for the flex? Like what's really the reason that is making me feel like I want to do this line of work. And I feel like all of like, all of like, you know, the thoughts like, Oh, I didn't go straight through like, I'm never gonna get in, like I took too long of a gap like all of that, once I really found like, really sat in my reasons, I've always had a reason. But I feel like once we're in the grind of it, I kind of lost it. But once I really got my reason I was like, No, this is really what I want to do, like I but I needed that time outside of school, outside of the grind, to just sit and be in community and be with people and see, like, this is why we're gonna do this work because the people I'm in community with, and I feel like that would have been such a like, just transformative period for me. I mean, I didn't even expect to talk about this, but you just brought that up for me when you said that. I feel like a lot of times, it's very easy to get centered in your ego, even if you come from a good place, it's very easy to get wrapped up in that and just like-

No, for sure, right, because it comes with, like, the accolades and the praise and the, you know, the money or like, whatever it comes with, it comes with like, you know, a like, a hit of like serotonin every day when someone's like, You're so great, or you did this or whatever the case is, and like, you know, it's so easy to get swept up in that. And also, like, if you don't have a reason that centers you, right, if you don't have that reason, this- it, it's too much work. You're going to be resentful after a while, right. Because eventually those things wear off like, oh, the praise, and the this, it's good in the beginning, right. Even as a doula, you know, as a person who does work that I do now. Like people are like, see oh, this and that and whatever, and I'm like, Thank you, thank you so much. And also, this shit be whooping my ass sometimes, like, most of the time, honestly, you know, like, in one way or another. So I have to definitely know like, what is my reason, right, for doing this beyond this like physical world that's in front of me.

Exactly. I love that. Thank you. I feel like that was healing for me for a second.

Girl, I love that though. I love that you like have done that work to really figure out like, you know, why do I want to be a doctor like, because, you know, like, same thing with like being a doula and a sense of, like, not everything that you see is gonna be rainbows. Not everything, not everyone that you do is gonna love the work that you do. Not everyone's gonna respect you, unfortunately, right. Not everyone's going to see your greatness all the time, right. You could do 10 right things and somebody's gonna say you do some wrong shit, right. Like it's- especially as a Black person, right, navigating this world. So it's like, you have to like really think about like, Why am I being a doctor? Why am I getting into these systems? What is the benefit, right? So when I'm having a hard day, why am I doing this shit? Right? So, so it's important. So I'm glad that you've had that time because it's- I have to go back to that often.

Okay, that's good to hear. Yeah. Okay, so you still have to go back to it.

I mean, don't get me wrong, like I love what I do. I love the opportunities that have come to me that absolutely I've created for others. But you know, like with anything people are a lot, right. Like sometimes it's like, Damn, if I could just do the work without the people, this would be great. But you can't, so like, so you've got to deal with people's bad days, you got to deal with your own bad days, you got to deal with trying something and it fails, right. You got to deal with the changes in relationships, right. You got to deal with, especially I think, specifically, in my experience being a Black person and feeling very isolated sometimes, right. Like, you have to deal with these things that are hard, which is why I have therapy. And I have a spiritual mentor. And I have people that support me, because some of it is just beyond me sometimes, right. But I have to like, come back to my center like this, there's no other work that I would rather do. But I'm not going to do this work at the expense of myself.

I love that. Yeah, that's a line right there. And just how you highlighted-

That's when the Black luxury expert comes in, by the way.

We're gonna get to that, we're gonna get to that next. But I just want to say I love how you spoke on having the community around you, having the spiritual mentor, the therapist, you talked about having a business coach, like you're building a community around you that can support you, outside of even like you're building a team as well. So you have your team, and then you have this other community as well. That's just just like-

For me.

Yeah, for you, specifically, as a person.

And I have my two dogs. Listen, there's been days where like, it's been a lot going on just like with work or whatever. And literally, sometimes I send my dogs to daycare, and I'll be like, crying and my therapist will be like, the dogs must not be around.

I love that I'm planning on getting a dog soon. I can't even wait. I can't wait.

That's gonna be so good for you. It's gonna be so good.

Okay, let's transition into the Black luxury expert. What is that about?

So, I feel like that was created off of my experience of, one, being a Black person, obviously. But being a person who does a lot of work and is a caregiver, for sure. You know what I mean? And so one thing that I have seen, not always in my own personal situation, just have seen is that, like, when I see Black people in leadership, people expect them to always be, like, strong, and, you know, whatever, and all- can do all the things and they're just, they just do so much, right. And people do that with me, for sure, right. Like Sabia does so much, and she could do it all and duh duh duh duh duh. And I was like ehhh, I don't want you to think that. Like, I want you to know that I am capable of doing a lot of shit. I am, right. But I also want you to see me as a human and expect me to live in luxury, right. So I want you to like work around your whatever shift you have around your image of Black people and when it's acceptable for us to be around, right. And like that is constantly a thing around people, you know, being happy about all the work that I do, but also be happy when I don't do shit. Celebrate that just as much as you celebrate the wins that I have. Because me not doing shit is a win for me, right.

Yes.

So when I, like, talk about Black luxury, I'm like, Hey, Black luxury for me doesn't always mean the most expensive things. So don't get me wrong. I love a luxurious experience. And I need y'all to be comfortable seeing my Black ass doing some luxurious shit. You know what I'm saying. Especially as like a social, you know, justice person people are like you're probably struggling, you're supposed to be in the mud and I'm like that doesn't validate how much work I do for my, for my community. You get I'm saying. Actually it's better off for me to be doing luxurious shit so I could sustain and do the work that I need to do all the time, right. But it's also, like, luxury for me is me pausing, me taking a day off, me going to therapy, me eating some food that feels good to me, not healthy food, still food that feels good to me. That might be a salad one day, that might be some fried catfish the next day. You get what I'm saying, like?

Oh, I get what you're saying.

Right, like. Like, I want you to celebrate me taking time to be in a romantic dynamic. I want you to celebrate me being in love. I want you to celebrate me being in love with myself. I want you to celebrate me spending time with my parents, you know. Like, I want you to celebrate the parts of me that balances me and replenishes me and not just celebrate the work that I do. Because that's an aspect of me. But it's not the whole thing. So when people see like literally on my website, all of that even on my business cards or whatever it says that up there because I need you to understand I ain't doing no shit I don't want to do. And there's also expectations and standards of how you're going to treat me, so just know that.

You said a lot. That was- That was great. Thank you for sharing that. I feel like from one thing that you said that a lot of times people will judge our success as an organizer, as an activist, as a social justice person by how much you struggle. If you're struggling a lot, you must be good at what you're doing. So if we're in luxury and we're not struggling, oh, you're not doing enough, you're not doing anything for your community. What are you doing for the community? Because I'm doing my work, andyou sitting back judging me, just because I took- I went to therapy one day, so.

And I like, I like- and it's such a learning that is happening even though you know, with the people who are in social justice work or anti racism, whatever, and even within our own community around, like, oh, when I'm like working my ass to the bone, people are like clap clap, you know, whatever the case is. But when I'm like, I'm taking a break, and I'm doing whatever, sometimes the claps don't be as loud or they just gone.

They stopped.

Right.

I'm looking for 'em.

Right, or people build their story, because people also have, you know, power aversions and money aversion, right. So like, if people say, like, oh, you can take a rest, you can afford to do that sometimes there's a little salt that comes with that, right. But it's like, Yo, that's about you more than it's about me. And I'm going to treat myself and give myself the life that I want to have. And that life affords me the ability to do the work that I do, and do it consistently, and build on my shit, and give opportunity, and do all that. So it's really just like an unlearning that I want people to expect in the process of dealing with me.

Yeah, and I have to be honest, you said a lot of times, it's more about the person than it is about you. I feel like when I first started my podcast, after I started the podcast, some people at my school started a podcast through, like, with the school, and they had like a group of 20 people that would get like volunteer credit if they like wrote the script, or they did the social media. And I was like, Why do y'all get all this support, and all those other things. I was very jealous and upset. And I feel like, that was- it was more about me and me feeling like I wasn't getting support, and not so much that I was upset with them getting the support that they needed. And I feel like that really pushed me into how you talked about building a team. And now I have a team of people supporting me. And I feel like that was something I needed to see, to show me that I don't need to do everything by myself. And even though I don't have the resources that they have with the school, I can go and get my own resources.

So I definitely feel like-

For sure.

-it is us sometimes but I feel like-

Oh, for sure.

-outside of me is doing that as well.

For sure. And I think it's like a check in right with self, right. And I think like, but when I have people like have a problem with me and my rest, I'm like,

Yeah, that's an issue.

Right?

That's a personal problem.

That's a personal problem. And that's something maybe I can help with. And we have a conversation. But like, that's, that's a you thing. But I think in that aspect for sure. There's been times where I've like seen people that I'm like, dang, like, the kind of ease that they have in their life is something that I want for myself, right. Whether it's around a podcast, whether it's around them traveling, whatever it is, right like this, this ease, I think we all crave ease. And it's easy to get jealous or feel a way because that ease is not present for you and your life, right. And then it comes into the conversation, I think especially like when I just have friends who have access to a lot of shit. And I'm like, dang, they just got that so easy. Like, it's like I have to work for this, right. And that's a hard reality sometimes. It's like, I have to work for this, like, it's not going to come easy for me. Nothing's going to be handed to me, right. And it's a hard reality. But it's also sometimes why I'm so proud of myself.

You gotta clap for yourself.

And I also know that the more that I build, at least in my mindset in my life, that the ease will generate for the people that's after me and for the people that surround me, right. And I see that I see like, you know, one of my my baby mom, who's my friend, but we platonically raise her kids together. And when I first met her, she wanted to be a doula. She was working at a company that she hated. And like we often because I needed she checked in with me that day because I was going through like, you know, am I doing things right? You know, whatever. And she was like, Yo, like, I have a job. I stay home now. I do the work that I love. I'm a doula. I run a nonprofit that I love and care for, like, you helped me take care of my kids. I don't- You know and I'm like, it helps me to understand that what I'm doing now and taking care of myself and in the work that I do. It's also creating easy, even in this present moment for the people that I love. You know what I mean?

That is beautiful. And I'm so upset with you that you dropped this bomb at the end of the episode because I feel like that is such a great topic to talk about, about raising kids platonically and just being in community with people we don't have to always focus on romantic relationships. So I would love to have you back so we can get more into that a little bit.

We can talk about that. We can talk about that. I started off as her, as her backup doula and now her kids are my kids. Like literally Jacob is the smallest one. That's who she was pregnant with when I was her backup doula. And he literally just- he was literally FaceTiming all of us; it was me, my mom who's his grandma, right. It's a whole adopt, like we have- we got blended. Then like my mom's husband, he's like pop pop, duh duh duh duh duh. Like he'll call my my parents, right, to tell them that I didn't answer the phone.

The audacity.

You're only five, sir. I'm 34. But that's my baby and I'll do anything for him and Elijah. Like it's- We make parenting decisions together, school decisions together. Yeah.

And so how did y'all come to the decision to co-parent?

So it was like, it wasn't really like said, it was like it was just happening. It was just like happening. And when it was happening, then at just at one point we were like, Yeah, but she was like, You're my baby daddy, I'm like, Yeah, you're my baby mama. And we're gonna raise these kids together. And, you know, it's just what we do. And like, especially like with her like, she, you know, her mom passed away when she was younger. And like, she calls my mom, Mom, you know what I mean? And they talk and they do, they have their own relationship. So it's just been something that was like, natural, and then established. And then it was like, I'm so in love with these kids. Now, I got no choice. I didn't think I was gonna be a daddy, at this age. I was like Imma be kid-free until forever, but like, nope two kids,

That's beautiful. And you know, they say it takes a village to raise a kid and it's like y'all are creating the village that y'all need. I love that.

That's the work, right? Like, that's the work. It's like, how do we genuinely and, you know, with ease and flow, come into these dynamics that really enrich us, right. Despite the status of like romantic relationships or what family is or what this is and what that is, like, you know, it's about that even- just so you know, Loads of Pride, my business, my mom just retired this year. She's worked for the Turnpike in New Jersey for all the years I was born. And then my stepdad is a truck driver. So they're actually running my- they're who's working for me

It's a family business.

It's a family business. But I think, like, that's the work, right. It's like when you get- when you can achieve a certain level and unlock a certain level that you unlock ease and grace and opportunity for others. And if you're often constantly doing that work, that shit is super fulfilling. And also, when you kick back and put your feet up, you feel good.

I love that. And I genuinely believe that one of the most revolutionary things that we can do is really raise up the next generation in the vision that we see for the world, whether that's being a biological parent, or being someone's village, or just being with someone's support system, like really shaping young children to live in a world that's respectful, and it just embodies liberation for everyone. I feel like that's one of the most revolutionary things we can do. And you don't have to have kids to do that. And you're a testament to that you co-parent-

I'm a doula that does not want to have no baby out my body. Like you could say that for the next person. Like, I'm not interested. I know what it's about. But that one thing you said about like kids, right, specifically, I was with Elijah and Jacob. They live in San Diego, they're moving- they're moving to Georgia soon. And I was talking to Venice about like work stuff, right. And I was talking about like need a financial person and BADT. And so I had bought Elijah like books that talked about, like, entrepreneurship for kids. And he also opened his own little online store, because he's like, Titi can do it, I can do it, right. So talking to Venice and I was like, Yeah, I need like a CFO, like a Chief Financial Officer, something similar to that. And he was like, Can I be your CFO? And I was like, not yet, like. You know, but like, the thing that happened in that moment was like, he doesn't even think about working for anybody else. Like he doesn't even think about, I'm gonna have to, we were growing up, like, I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm gonna work for this, or, you know, whatever the case is, like, he doesn't even have that mindset. He's like, I can go be a CEO. Like, that's what I can go do. I can build my own shit. I saw my Titi do it. I'm gonna do it Titi be doing this, you know he thinks all this shit about me. And sometimes I'm like, okay, but also like, let's be realistic. You know, but like to him, that's just is what it is once he's seen it, he's seen it be done. Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. And I love that you said not yet and not no.

Yeah.

When he asked the question.

Yeah, give it a couple. But I got a position for you; it's just not that one. Like not that one. I do have a position for you. So you know, I think it's like that's part of like my growth and like things that keep me going is like to see the expansion and the kids and adults are the people that I, you know, love, and even the people I don't don't love. Just, like, seeing the impact.

I love that. In addition to you being a serial entrepreneur, angel investor, doula, everything, you're also an author. You have a book coming out March 2023, Birthing Liberation: How Reproductive Justice Can Set us Free. So can you talk to us about this book, what it's about how you decided to be an author, the process, I want to know everything.

Okay. Oh my gosh. So, one, I would say I thought about writing a book, I think, maybe 2019. I just like had it in my brain like maybe and at the time, I was like I'll self-publish, and I'll just like write something, and you know self-publish it myself, but at the time, I didn't feel like I needed much more than that. And so then things kind of grew, right. So 2020 Yeah, it was like, Okay, I'm ready. Like, this is what we need to do. So I started working with my book coach, started mapping out, like, the ideas for the book and what I wanted it to look like. And I went through the process of getting a literary agent. So I got my agent, and I thought, like, ain't nobody gonna be interested in this shit, and I got an agent, like, fast. So I was like okay. So then after I worked with her, we got the proposal together, because that's the whole thing, put your proposal together, worked on that for probably three or four months, then got my agent and then make some more edits. And then we were like, looking for a publisher. And I was like, Okay, again, I'm not looking for nobody. Like, it's usually you put your, like, start putting out proposals, and you don't hear back for like, weeks or months, that kind of thing. Literally, it was, like, one week into the process. And I had a couple people who were interested. And so I ended up going with Chicago Review Press. And yeah, so I signed with them. You know, got my little advance or whatever, wrote the book. And that was a process. I actually pushed back. My book was supposed to come out actually this month or last month of this, of this year. But life was happening. I was like, Y'all ain't gon' rush me. I was like, I want to be able to read this book and not and not feel the stress, you what I'm saying? Because maybe nobody else would be able to feel it, but I would be able to feel it. So I was like, I don't want to rush it. So finish the book. And now I have my book.

Look at it. Beautiful.

And it's like so, it's very-

It's big.

Yeah.

It's kind of thick.

Girl. I wrote like 55,000 words, 60,000?

I can't even fathom, like, I'm trying to- No. 55,000.

Yes.

Dang.

And I was, like, talking my friend. You know, Ericka Hart? I was talking to her.

Mhm.

And I was talking to her about her book limit. And she was like, Oh, yeah, it's like 30. And I just think, Oh, yeah, I'm writing an encyclopedia. I am writing an encyclopedia like.

What was, what was your experience when you got like, the first sample like the actual not like just the manuscript that's like stapled together or whatever, but like the actual book, what was that experience like?

It was wild. Because like, you go through this process, and you go through all these steps, right,of building a book, you got to write the book, you got to go through 5000 corrections, right, like revisions, additions, all that kind of stuff. You go over like, what do you want the cover to look like? Here are the options. What do you think about the font? What do you- it's like a lot of, like, you know what I'm saying like, it's a lot of work, a lot of energy.

Yeah, for sure.

And then you like, get your book. So this is my advanced copy, because it's actually like the super corrected one is going to be primed ready in like January, February. But like you said, advanced copies. So we got, like, copies of this one. And I was like, what? Like seeing my words

Literally printed out in a book?

In a book. Like, what? And so then like right now or in the last couple months, we've been going through the process of getting blurbs. So like before, you know, like marketing, because next year, I'll be on with my marketing press run or whatever. But like, you want to get blurbs. So you give advanced copies to folks to read. And you know, see if they give a little review. So people who have been sending back reviews and I'm like, super touched by like what people are writing. And Publishers Weekly wrote a review.

Oh, wow.

And I was like, Yeah, I remember like, Publishers Weekly being a thing when I was a kid and I'm just like, okay, that's just like some adult thing. I don't know. You know like.

Even Chicago Review too!

Yes, so I'm like, What? And even like in the process of this whole thing, like I'm their lead for the season. And it's just like-

Oh, wait, don't just, don't just gloss past that. You're the what? Say it again.

Yes, I'm their lead release for the season.

Wow. First time author?

Yeah.

I know that's right. Period.

When I got that Publishers review thing like, Yo, Publishers Weekly, I was like, they really wrote a thing like, Y'all need to read this, like this is and this, like, their review is already out because they got the advanced copy. So it's actually gonna go on like that. When we get the final book, the reviews are gonna be on the back and one of them is going to be Publishers Weekly. And so it's just been, it's a spin. It's, it's, it's, it's a lot. It's a lot to absorb and like next year, like I said, I'll be out doing live events and like talking about the book. There's people that like, you know, I like people already been pre-ordering it and I'm like, seeing my number on Amazon go up.

Oop.

You know, and like and I'm just like, it's so-

That's beautiful.

It's so, it's anxiety provoking, and it also feels like I'm able to put my experiences over the last seven years in, you know what I'm saying? In a thing, and now I'm- I feel like I have the freedom to expand. You get what I'm saying? Because before like, people will ask me to, you know, give classes or talks and now I can be like, hey, go read this, right.

Yeah.

And let me work on the thing that's going to be the future as well. So it's like, it's just, it doesn't feel real, but it feels real. But it also doesn't feel real.

Five businesses, writing a book at the same time, being a parent, you're doing everything, and you're still finding time for rest. That's the most important piece of it. Time for rest and joy.

I'm actually this next week, I'm going to I don't know if you heard of Lama Rod Owens, but he is a Black, queer Buddhist teacher. He has a couple of really good books that, you know, you should look up, but he's hosting a retreat. It's called Healing and Resiliency When the World Is Falling Apart. And it's a, it's like a day-long retreat, like meditation, journaling, sitting or whatever. And it's in Asheville, North Carolina, so I'll be there because I'm not going for one day like I know the retreat is one day, but I'll be here for like three or four days. And then I'm going to drive to Florida and chill with my little boo thing for a week like I- listen, sis gon' chill.

And it's the end of the year, too. Like that end of the year reset, relaxation, chill with your boo, get your meditation in. I love it. I love it. An inspiration. I'm trying to be like you.

And listen, and I always felt like my book like for this book tour my my assistant, Davina, who you've obviously communicated with, like, she knows I'm like, don't be booking me without having my time off. Like I like to have a week off every month out of office. And I take two weeks out of office every quarter. And I'm like-

Hey, this is my time. I have to put in a small plug. Okay, so BFR'sproduction manager Annaya is an avid reader. And they were just interning with Penguin Publishing House. So if you're looking, if you have an extra advanced copy you'd like to send out, I highly recommend you send it to Annaya. I can wait for the pre-order. But-

No, send me the information!

But that would be great.

I'll do that.

But ooh, I'm learning so much from you. This is amazing. I love just seeing like you're doing all this work. And obviously this podcast is about Reproductive Justice. And you're doing that, you're doing that work. But just like learning about, like, how you've like found your footing, like not just in the movement, but it's in everything and just how you navigate stuff. And you do Reproductive Justice, but then you do other things to fund your work in RJ and you just find things that like bring you joy, I just love all of it like you're really an inspiration.

Like I love Reproductive Justice. And like I feel like everything I do is in relation to that. But I can't stay in the hard parts of it all the time. Because when I have, my mental health has like to do do do [imitates sound of something going down] you know? So I have to be a full person for my health. And if I'm healthy, then I can do the things I need to do for my community.

Right, I feel that I just had an episode, like three episodes back talking about just like finding yourself in the movement, like not over identifying with the work, but just still having your own personhood, but you also have a podcast, right? So what's all the things? How can we find you? How can we find your podcast? Preorder your book? All the things.

Yeah, so the easiest thing is to go to my website, sabiawade.com. On there, it has everything from all my businesses, to my books, to my podcast, to whatever's going on in my world. You could definitely follow me on social media: sabiawade on Instagram, sabiawade pretty much everywhere. And you also, you know, get the updates and the lives and the other thing I would say is I have a Substack, which you can get access from the website anyway, it asks you to sign up. But on that Substack, it's called the Birth Neoterist Substack I post at least two or three times a week. And it can be anything from like an article to a meditation, I like to do some meditations or grounding in there. Also, I do recordings on there that are like not on my podcast with people that are doing really great work. And so you know, just find me. All right, unfortunately, you can Google me.

Okay, flex. Look me up on Google, all my stuff's on Google. I love that. We're also gonna put your information in the podcast show notes as well, so people can click the link below. But thank you so much for joining me on this episode, for teaching me things, for all the work that you do. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for using your platform to, one, put me on it and for the work that you do and the conversations that you have. Because it's so necessary. And I think, you know, like, as a black person, like doing the work even though like the work has been a community it can still feel so isolating, right. So like to be able to come and listen and like have a space where it's like I can relate to that is really powerful.

Thank you. Don't make me cry. I love that. Thank you so much. Thank y'all so much for tuning in to today's episode. I told y'all it was gonna be a good one. Make sure you check out the description to preorder Sabia's new book Birthing Liberation. There'll also be some links on how you can support her and her work as well as ways to support BFR. Follow us on social media, sign up for a newsletter, stay up to date with what we've got going on, so definitely check out the description and I'll talk to y'all later.