Right? So we've got Arno, Edwin, Jesse, Yehuda and Tina, so we've got lots of facilitators, alright, well, I'm going to be the first listener, and Edwin, why don't you? Will you listen? Oh, will you, will you speak?
Okay, I'll be the first speaker. And, yeah, I'm speaking to you. Yeah, what comes to mind? I mentioned it in, in the in the circle, but I just, I just love, love you. You're, you're just, it's you're just such a warm, caring, you know, just your warmth, I just, I love it. You're just, you're you're sharing your personal, sharing your personal stories of your experience was just very meaningful to me. Well, you
you appreciated. You appreciated my sharing, and that I'm a warm and a personal, personable person, and and that's my heart. First thing you came away with is your heart.
Yeah, and yesterday, I just sent out the email about the closing of the empathy Center in Santa Barbara. So that was, you know, just kind of explaining to everyone. I shared it with the community in in Santa Barbara, you know, explained it, you know, quite a while back, and we'd also had some going away, uh, dinners and so forth. But I just finally sent it out, just to let everyone you know, on our list of about 3500 people know about the closing of the physical location. Yeah. So
you, you just sent out yesterday the the story about the closing to of the empathy Center in Santa, Barbara, you had shared it with the people in Santa Barbara, and there had been some, some final get togethers at the empathy center, but, but now you had a chance to send it out to 3500 people.
And, yeah, so now looking like, how do we move forward? And kind of looking at the the planning, and I just loved what, you know, the ideas like Zach had about holding these house parties too. That's a good way, you know, finding a place everybody's been looking in Santa Barbara, like, Oh, where do we hold the empathy circles? But anyone can kind of get the ball rolling just by holding a house, you know, a house party too. So I think it's a good way to just get the ball rolling. So
the question is, you know, how do we go forward? What? What happens next? And you're you're thinking that having let people know is a way that that you'll get this seed planted and go forward.
Yeah, I feel very hurt. Thank you. Thank
you. Okay, let's see. And uh,
Jesse, will you listen? Yes, I'm listening. Thank you. Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you. Great. Okay, get the timer going here, excuse me. I had an interesting experience that happened over the last couple of weeks that I want to talk about. I'll make it personal.
You had a couple of interesting experience you'd like to talk about. You want to make that personal?
I have a friend who's nearing the end of his life, and he asked me if I would help him get his thoughts in order from the standpoint of a will because I'm I am a lawyer, and I told him at the beginning that I was the wrong guy for it, that he needed to see an estate planning lawyer, but he would add nothing of it. He just wanted me to do it.
A friend of you asked you to to help him to organize his thoughts and put it down as a will. And you told him you are not the right person in the position to help. He need a professional estate planner.
And I had two, uh, two emotions that that continue during the process? You know, one was that, you know, I really, I really wanted somebody else to do it. And the other was that, as a friend, he's always asked me to do things in the past for him, lawyerly, even though he knows I'm an immigration lawyer, and he's never once offered to pay me.
So you have two emotions in your mind. In in you come up going this process. One is, you want somebody else to do this task. You don't think you're the right person. Two is, in the past, he used your legal services. Yes, many times, but it never intend to to compensate you
for your so I was really, I was surprised that, you know that, that I took things personally from the standpoint of, Am I going to get paid for what I do? And then my worrying hat is, you know, am I going to get sued for doing this?
So you had conflict feeling of, are you going to get a paid this time, or are you get going to get a sued if it didn't work out, because it's not really your expertise.
And you know, the surprising thing was, here is this? Here? I'm sitting with my friend who's dying, taking notes, and it just seems surreal. You know what I what I really wanted to be able to do is just hug him and not do anything but love him and value the friendship. Time we've had together, you know, for 40 years.
So when you facing him face to face, you feel it's something real happening in the present moment, and appreciate 40 years of friendship. You just want to love him. And then all the other thoughts went away,
and I had a chance to spend time with him and his sons yesterday, and before, we sat together, before we sat together, I shared the the, you know, the overview about me not being the right guy with his sons. And I think they understood
so you had a time sitting together with his son and and himself. Three of you, any sharing that you're not the right guy. You just want to be here to be as a friendship, but you're not right person to do this.
Thank you. I feel heard,
great.
Okay, yeah, Yahuda,
yes, my
listener, do i pronounce your name right? Sure. Do I pronounce your Huda? Okay, thank you. I, I, I listened to your speech in a very inspired from your from your research that the empathy, the first time I heard that word, empathy, was actually generated or invented by Carl Rogers.
You were inspired to hear this news to you that actually, it was invented by COVID just not so long ago.
And I just recently get in touch with this empathy, the word, the word empathy, and I, I was, I am very curious to dig into what empathy is really about, because I had opportunity to attend the empathy circle training in Santa Barbara in August, and since then, it's leading me to more and more interesting to Learn the empathy circle and the concept of empathy,
you discovered a completely new line of adventurous discoveries through joining the empathy circles in Santa Barbara, and you keep discovering new things Ever since,
yes, thank you. And I just think the empathy circle it itself. It's a very a unique thing, because the more I practice empathy circle, the more I feel the benefit of the depreciated, the simplicity, effectiveness, and also the benefit that in Santa Barbara, everybody we have a volunteer of 15 people that came when the embassy circle physical location. We lost the physical location. We volunteer to stick together, to move, to make the happening, because everyone of us have deep in deep in touch and feel something about it.
You feel that something very deep happened in you by joining the empathy circles, and you can see, you can feel that a community was created around it and non interest in self interest community. People really there to listen to each other, and you observe that it made changes in you being a part of it, and actually, it created a community that even survived the closing of the center, and maybe something even greater will come out of him. Yeah.
Thank you. Yes, in the also, I feel the what we need is something like, what do you do? Do research and have some serious, some some serious support this, why it's so effective, why it's helping everybody in the in the extended to more of a life, like in business, in the in other area, like a school for student so really spread this empathy as a culture in a very step by step, effective way that have a good effective to the society
you're developing. Interest in the research of empathy, such as I presented and others presented you are really interested in the science of it, in the method of it, in the ongoing research of it, because you feel it belongs everywhere, and it can benefit everyone,
and also it can be as a effective backup
you have to watch. Okay. Jason, okay.
You can hold a wave the clock or something.
Okay. Thank you. Yes, I really think some theory to support this, this simple activity will be really helpful. I feel Yeah,
you believe that, alongside doing it, thinking about it, methodologizing and theorizing, it can be an additional development for this movement.
Yes, I feel heard. Thank you very much pleasure.
Thank you.
You get to pick a listener. Yehuda, I
pick a listener. Yes, you're going to talk a listener to me. Yes, yeah. Well, I didn't hear anything else from Tina, so I'd like to be heard by Tina. Are you there? Tina, yes,
I am. Thank you.
Well, something very fresh, actually, from today. I had a very close friend, one of my closest friends, and over 20 years friendship in different countries and co working. And this friendship has many levels, and it became quite intimate and also collegiate. And I'm very affected by this person, and sometimes there is no distinction between expression of her feelings and judgment. And so because I'm so close to her, sometimes she gives herself the freedom to just express how she feels, but it is offensive, and I don't manage to distance herself in time, just to observe it before it affects me. And she's always disappointed by that.
So what I heard is that you have an intimate, but a collegiate relationship with a friend, and sometimes the way she conveys her feelings, the lines are blurred and you question, there's a disconnect that you question in terms of judgment and how she makes you feel in that moment.
Yes, I am not getting it when she just expressed herself, and when she is actually forming an opinion of me. So the way she's boundaries,
so the way she's expressing herself makes you question how she sees you,
yes, yes. And because she's close to me, it's can be very painful.
And how she sees you, you find that it is not what you expected, and it causes you pain.
Yeah, it caused me pain and disappointment.
Pain and disappointment.
I don't hear you
said it again.
I missed something you. Said, it
causes you pain. How she reacts and how she expresses her opinion causes you pain and disappointment,
and she is disappointed that I am disappointed because she thinks just express a feeling
and her her expression of how she feels, in her honesty, she gets disappointed that you are hurt by what she's saying and not hearing what she's trying to convey.
Yeah, it becomes a tango of disappointments.
So then both of you end up feeling hurt and disappointed,
but we are very vulnerable to each other because we're very close, so sometimes it creates a distance.
So in a vulnerability, it what I'm hearing is that you're you're seeking some distancing or boundary to protect your feeling,
yes, and then it takes a while to return to closeness. And
so when that disconnect occurs, when you're trying to protect yourself from hurt, she senses that there's a distancing, but that's what happens because of the way she communicates to you.
Time just
Tina, I feel heard. Thank you very much. Oh,
you're welcome. Thank you. Arnold, will you be my listener?
Yes.
So I'll share my my what I've learned or experience with getting involved with empathy.
I didn't, I didn't quite hear you were brought up. You mind repeating? Tina,
oh, sure. I think I'll, I'll just share a personal expression of what I've learned or what I've experienced through this empathy circle
movement. So you're going to share an experience of what you've had by by being a part of the empathy movement.
Yes. So I have been dealing with intrapersonal conflict because battling for my health.
So you've been dealing with interpersonal conflict with people in your life.
I'm dealing with intrapersonal conflict with an A which conflict with with myself.
You've been dealing with intra personal conflict with yourself, correct? Yes,
um, people don't really address that personal conflict very often,
people don't normally express that personal conflict,
because I'm taking a a I decided that if I'm going to encourage empathy, that I need to look at myself.
You decided that in order to encourage empathy, the best thing to do is to work on yourself.
Yeah, so metaphorically, I decided to take my shoes off and then step back into them that I can reconnect with my life. So
you've decided, metaphorically, to take off your shoes and step out of them and stepping then step back into them, to move forward in your life. Mm hmm, because
it became clear clearer to me that I have been completely disconnected with my self.
It's been clear to you that you've been disconnected from yourself,
that, in part, is survival mechanism, and also that need to stay in control, or have some sense of control over my life.
Part of it is, is for you to be able to stay in control of your life.
Mm hmm, to survive to.
Right, yes.
So what I've learned about this, this opportunity to engage in empathy as that, I would show empathy to someone else, express but I would not, and have never felt compassion or been kind to myself.
So it's been easy to give empathy to others, but much harder for yourself. Haven't been inclined to and that's time.
Said it again. I'm sorry. Are we at time? Yeah,
you're out of time. Okay?
Thank you. You feel heard. I feel heard. Yes, thank you. All
right. Thank you very much. Um, all right. You
Ed Edwin, will you listen? Thank you. I was really impressed by by what I heard today, especially by the number of people that have taken the what they've learned in the empathy circles and and applied it to the the way that they're reacting and interacting with people in their lives and their business lives. So
you've been you're impressed by what you're hearing in the summit today, and especially the part where people are talking about how they're applying it in their own personal lives, in business or in their personal life.
And and it, it really resonates for me, because it shows how, if, if indeed, there's an empathy revolution going on, that it's that it's already happening.
Yeah, so it shows that if there's an empathy movement or revolution happening, that it's actually is happening. It's not like something in just in the future.
And it's beautiful. Because unless you know, unless people tell it, unless people tell me, in the circles that I sit in, it's mostly personal stuff. I'm not hearing it about how they're how it's going out in any other way. So it's very inspiring.
So it's inspiring. They hear it kind of from the bigger picture, how they're sort of this movement, because the circles you take part in people just talking about their own personal experience. Primarily,
I liked Zach's idea about the house party. I thought that was a really, a really neat and simple way to spread it locally. And
really like the facts, house party ideas,
and I think that that, you know, there's it. It anchors it on it. It anchors the concept of empathy as a practice that is based on empirical stuff in science and in business and in life.
And you appreciate how this is grounding the empathy in something that's business oriented in life and in science. So it's not whoo kind of
it gives me, it gives me a new sense of excitement about ways that I can take what I've been experiencing into into the other areas of of interpersonal relationships and and actions, and
so it's kind of it's just gives you ideas for how you can apply it to other parts of your life, because it's not just, you know, fluff, it's there's something grounded there that you can expand on.
Thank you. I feel heard. Okay,
I'll speak to Jesse,
and you're muted. So you were, I was hearing that Jesse that you were interested in, like, the more the background science definitions of empathy. So I wanted to say a few things about that. To begin with.
You'd like to introduce some background empathy definitions.
In fact, I'm going to post into the chat a book on empathy, a history. So this is by someone who did a really good job about talking about the history of empathy. And I don't not quite sure where Huda got the notion that empathy started with Carl Rogers, but it started. It was already started. The basic concept kind of got started in the 1870s I think,
okay, great. You're introducing a book from Amazon. I saw the link, yes.
And the empathy got started. Kind. Of the essence of the concept got started in the 1870s in Germany,
empathy, concept of
the word Yeah. And concept
started in 1870 in Germany. And
it's had a long history. I mean, not that's a short history for a word, really, but I think Carl Rogers just really, kind of consolidated and really created a firm foundation for an understanding of empathy. So he's, like, sort of really pivotal.
So Carl Roger really bring it to an academic level to explain the empathy more grounded and more rooted, more more more professional way to understand I
think he he merged the scientific and the practical, like he did active listening, which is Very practical. So, you know, Arno is talking about, there's a practicality, a groundedness, and having that practice grounded it. And he developed that practice, but he also really articulated the science of it, and did studies and so forth. So kind of merging those, making it a very grounded concept.
So he integrated the the action, the the action we take to practice empathy with the science theory versus uh practice together. And he really solidified the the empathy to actual practice of it based by science,
yeah, and finally, I also, we do need some better definitions, and that's why I'm working on this definition project now. And I think it addresses the holistic empathy. Addresses Tina's concern that, you know, if she's listening, other people aren't listening to her. So that's only part of empathy. Holistic empathy is like the empathy circle. We're all listening to each other, and everyone gets equally, more or less equal time to be heard, which I think is kind of the true sort of deeper nature of empathy.
So you are working on the definition deep, dig deep on definition of empathy. And also want to bring up the holistic practice of empathy is everybody have the chance to be heard, into to be mirrored of themselves, which was Tina was talking about. So bring bring herself in the picture, not just things that stay outside the picture. Just listen to others. Yes,
exactly. I feel very heard. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Tina,
yes, I'd love to. Are you there?
Okay, so I also had a long, difficult relationship, a difficult time for the past decade,
you also had a long, challenging relationship for the past decade, difficult
with a Family Relationship, yes, and I'm still handling that, and today, yesterday, I had a talk, and I realized today that I again put myself away to accommodate the other person's need, and they he just didn't even Feel his he even doesn't feel his need being fed.
So even though you put yourself last, it still was not enough.
Yes, I feel like it's endless plus endless. Who to fill in, as you mentioned, to put myself in my shoes to move forward, I realized that that's what I need to do.
So you connected with what I shared about the need for self empathy. Okay,
yes, the thing is, how do I how do I communicate with him? It's not he is. He wants to be that way, but he didn't understand and he didn't want to practice empathy circle. So my challenge is, how do I communicate this without hurt him, without hurt his feeling, but to correct, to show him as is.
So you're struggling with how to communicate without causing greater conflict in trying to get to understand what your needs are in this, this current or ongoing?
Yes, yes. So it's, it's still challenging for me, but, uh, I feel entering this empathy circle space. It does really open up my mind to to to to improve my situation.
So you're finding the empathy circles. I use the like guidance you need to figure out how to deal, or better deal with, just communicating. But
yes, and I Yes, I feel, I feel, I find the right place, and I'm not alone here, so I really glad I entered into this space,
and you're grateful For being a family.
Yes. Okay, so I'm originally from China. I hope I can explore that side too, but I'm not very experienced the by myself. So that's my next hope. So,
so your your next hope is like cross culturally, applying empathy circles, I understand you correctly.
Yes, I feel heard. Thank you very much. Oh,
you're welcome. Thank you. Okay, Edwin, would you be my listener? Listening? Oh, wait a minute, actually, should I call on Jesse, because I see I'm keeping an eye on time. Is that okay? Or Jesse, would you be my listener? Sure. Okay, awesome. Thank you. Um, so actually, I'm sorry you just spoke um. I do want to get back to you, but um, is that okay? If I do that,
it's your choice. Speak to whoever you want. Okay,
okay, uh, Jesse, I was relating. Thank you, relating to what you shared about really not feeling appreciated when you're putting forth a lot of effort, extending effort to help in every way you can, to not hurt another person, but still they it's not enough.
So you related to my effort to
sorry my you related to my effort, a lot of effort into somebody for somebody's best interest, but not appreciated, and then demanding more.
Yes, yes. And I could relate to that, because I will jump to do anything I can to help someone,
and so you can, okay, go ahead, go ahead.
I will do everything I can to help someone, and so feeling unappreciated, I've been feeling
so you feel you you like to help anything you can to related to this effort, because you are. So had a personal experience, maybe can share, yeah, I more advice.
So I'm really realizing, as I look into self empathy, that I have abandoned myself, and that I realized there is a disconnect that I'm now going back to do that internal work that's needed to understand expectation.
So on your own, you feel there's a disconnection for yourself, the empathy for yourself, and you feel it's you need to do some internal work to change the situation.
Yeah, I see that understanding how you got here, where you're at, in that moment that didn't happen overnight, and so reconnecting on your path, I think, will help me to be more assertive in in conveying what needs to be conveyed without hurting people,
to understand how it get back. It get into this situation and it it take the course of long time to to get there and to help you understand what will lead you to. Today's position is very important to to your experience that not blaming other people or circumstances, to start with your person, your inner, your own or your Personal, understanding first,
yeah, and understanding that for empathy there you have to have capacity. So if I don't have the capacity for self empathy, I'm seeing that the other who, where there is this disconnect, where they don't see that I've done everything I can for them. They are lacking. They may be lacking the same talents of capacity to fill and share what they're feeling, what I learned
so you find you need to have empathy. You need to have capacity on yourself, which is the capacity of empathy on yourself, before you can have the capacity of empathy to somebody else, and they might have the lack of capacity themselves that you do don't realize that's why you keep feeding them, because they they don't have any sense, their lack of it, and you have to keep feeding them. Maybe that's what's the problem. And to start with yourself, to feel with your empathy will set up a good example for others to understand what they need to do, and then we'll change both of you.
That was the time to know. She's exactly
Thank you.
You're welcome. This is really interesting, and I'm sorry, yeah, wow,
you're up again. Jesse,
Oh, great. Thank you. Okay. Yehuda, again, so when I first attended the empathy circle, I really think this is going to really help with cross cultural family and marriage and the business.
She selected you. Yahuda, I don't know if you heard that. Can you hear me
calling me? Please. Sorry. Say it again.
So when I first started with empathy circle, I really feel this is going to really help with cross cultural family communication, cross cultural marriage and cross cultural business. Yeah.
You felt right from the start that this has a great potential for cross cultural relationship on all levels.
Yes,
so
I was thinking about the other ways to can help. Then I start to when I when I really like what the Tina said. I started with myself to experience this, what an empathy circle can do, and what it really is.
Well, you started to get a real experience of empathy, not just the concept of it, and you realize it made a big difference to you.
Yes, and when I keep practicing, I keep finding more dimensions where the empathy is is what empathy circle, the particular format we have is helping us.
Well, the more you experience it, the more you look at it, the more you see in it, it goes deeper and deeper for you.
Yes, so I really think what Edwin doing here is making it holistic practice in in empathy,
you're very grateful for it. What Edwin is doing and his colleagues in making it a real, practical thing to do, practice that everyone can relate to
yes in today's summit is, I think, bring it another level, because so Many people shared so many great content that bring me into new thinking,
the more you hear about it, and the diversity of opinions and perspective really makes you go deeper and feel deeper about it.
Yes, I am really looking forward to practice more on myself and then see how I can bring it to benefit the world.
You're looking forward to go even deeper into it and be a part of bringing this further into the world.
Yes, I feel heard. Thank you, pleasure,
thank you.
You can pick up somebody.
How are we going for time? Edwin,
we have about eight minutes. Nine minutes.
Okay? Anna, I Anna,
will you listen? I'm ready far away.
I keep being disappointed by myself in relationship to my colleagues, not my clients, but my colleagues. You keep feeling
unhappy with yourself as it relates to to yourself, not not your clients, but to you.
No, no to myself in relationship to my colleagues, yes
to yourself in relationship to your colleagues is what you feel unhappy about, because
what we do together touch me so deeply. It's so much a part of me. Then, when I feel misunderstood or contradicted or contradicted on the basis of misunderstanding, I tend to react to it
so you react to being unders, to be at, to be re, to be misunderstood by your colleagues,
I could explain when I misunderstand that I'm reacting to being misunderstood, when my colleagues believe that they do understand me but they don't. The
challenge is that is that your colleagues don't believe that they're being misunderstood. They think that everything is clear
and it's not, and that's very frustrating for me,
and it's not, which is totally frustrating,
and it's not on personal matters. It's always when it involves working with other people, our our students, our clients. So I feel very attached to it and very committed to get it right. You want
to get it right because it's it's it relates to clients and and and other people in the collegial world.
And then I go into defensive reaction, and then you get defensive, and then they get offended by my defense. A reaction, and then they
get offended because of your reaction to them.
And it goes in cycles, and it's so repetitive, it's embarrassing, and
it's very repetitive, which is embarrassing,
which makes me disappointed of myself,
which makes you disappointed of yourself didn't
find yet the point of leverage to get out of this cycle completely.
You haven't found a leverage point to get out of the cycle, which
is a bit embarrassing, that I'm trying to help others and couples to do the same, but I'm keeping humbled by my own limitations.
Well, you're humbled by your own limitations, even though you're trying to help clients and couples understand themselves,
and it's okay to be humbled by now limitations, but it's not comfortable when this is what I'm teaching.
Well, it's, it's, it's okay to be humble, but you're really you're really challenged because you want to, you want to do it, right? So well, I
want to get over myself.
You want to get over yourself? I do really.
Thank you. I don't compare myself with other people, but with my own potential. And
you compare yourself with not your own potential, but with other people. And I
don't compare myself with other people. I compare myself with my own potential. So
you don't compare yourself to other people, just with your own potential,
yes, so I accept it as useful, humbling.
So you accept it, you're full humbling, and it's time. It
is time. Thank you. I feel you're welcome.
Okay, let's see we've got time for one more. Does that seem right? Edwin,
yeah, I think so. Five minutes. Okay, so
will you be my listener? Listening? Okay,
gotta get my timer going. Sorry. Here we go. Um, I'm impressed with every circle that I sit in, because after a round or two, people start revealing things that really matter to them.
Yeah, you're impressed by the circles, because when after we've gone a while, couple rounds, people restart sharing real stuff that's important to them.
And I, I, I think it's too bad that that that out in the wild, in the real world there. There doesn't seem to be enough time for people to give us the space to share what's going on.
It's a change. There's not enough time in the wild for people to really have that time, to really listen to each other, give space.
Because we're, we're sort of, we're sort of stuck with, with these feelings that that don't have an opportunity to be, to be let go, not in an explosion, but in a in a way that leads to our own health and well being.
Yeah, there's just not the time to kind of express all those feelings that need to be expressed out there.
And I wonder what it I wonder what it is if it's if it's if it's a part of civilization, or if it's a part of, you know, who we all are individually that creates this dilemma,
and you're just kind of curious with why is this situation like it is?
But there's catharsis in a circle, and there's healing and warmth in a circle and and that's why we want to, that's why I want to spread it, to give people that to give people that chance, because it's going to be a very challenging time in this country, and people are going to be snapping,
yeah, it's a challenging a time in The country, and in the circle is warmth and and listening and care and kind of need that and
I, and I want to thank you, Edwin for introducing to me the circle and the opportunity that it has to live in me and. Can go out in me in the most creative way that I can make it, yeah,
I'm hearing some real gratitude, if, for me introducing you to the circle so you can take it in and then spread it as the as well. I feel heard. Okay, great. We've got about the two minutes, I think no one minute. So yeah, I just want you had something Tina to share.
Yes, thank thank you. I share the same sentiment. I just really want to thank you, Edwin for just creating and supporting the work that that's so important to the world, really, I see it very clearly. Um, I felt the impact of empathy circles my life. And so I just want to say thank you for the work.
It's, it's mutual gratitude, because we're really building, trying to change the culture, you know, build a culture of empathy, and it's everyone's participation and contribution. So I'm grateful for that. And hitting the close all room, so we're going to be sent back in a second here. So, yeah, it's, it's going to take us all, you know, just chipping away at it, is what I see. You know, for making a cultural transformation like Arno, you're saying, like, why don't we do, why isn't this, you know, in part of the culture, and you know, for teaching empathy in the schools that the politicians are modeling it, you know, just it's incorporated into all the different aspects of the culture. I think it's all very doable that we can shift the culture so and it's going to take, you know, true believers, like all of you, you know, contribute for us all to contribute, you know, towards towards that vision. Well, I'm going to head back to the main room. Is going to send us back in about 10 seconds. So thank you. Thanks. Thanks, everybody.
