Classroom to Copy #18: Melanie Warren - From Teaching Algebra to Becoming Tony Robbins' Copy Chief
6:29PM Oct 5, +0000
Speakers:
Tania Yeo
Melanie Warren
Keywords:
teacher
copywriters
kids
chief
copywriting
interview
move
writing
copy
freelancing
melanie
teaching
students
ieps
class
happening
team
boulders
coach
audience
Hey everyone welcome back to another episode of classroom to copy I am still in Nashville hunting down more teachers turned the copywriters and getting their stories. And I have with me here today Melanie Warren, before I get her to introduce herself and like the exciting journey she's on right now I just wanted to, you know, thank her again because she's so I'm part of the accelerator group on copy chief, which is where like, you know, we get some extra coaching and mentoring in our copywriting businesses and Melanie has been there every step of the way of my journey, cheering me on giving me advice, telling it like it is and she's just overall an awesome human being a great person to learn from I'm very excited for today's episode. So I'm gonna let Melanie introduce herself right now. So, what do you do right now? What do you use to teach? Tell us everything,
everything. So I'm Melanie and I am the copy chief for Tony Robbins. And before this, I was a ninth grade algebra teacher. Wow. And my specialty was the kids with IEPs and learning concerns. So I remember on the first day of school, this was back when the paper was everything had to be printed. So you come in to the teachers lounge desks everywhere. Everybody had a few IEPs maybe four or five, six. I had a caseload of 120 students 110 of them had IEPs I had stack after stack after stack Wow. Yeah. So the outcome,
were they all in the same? Sorry, were they all in the same classroom or you just had that was my whole day? Oh, okay. Wow, I
have to say 30 ish was block scheduling. So four classes a day 30 ish kids per class. So a caseload of 120 Almost all of them had IEPs. And I think it was because I was the new kid. And so get all the challenging classes.
I remember that I
worked so hard at it. I would tell jokes. I had examples. I went so far as to make a felt bored because you know, the concept of solve for x doesn't really make sense. Yeah. So I did things like pretend it was a treasure hunt. Look, X marks the spot. Or I would take pieces of belt and I was trying to figure out how to teach that plus and minus are opposites with one another and then multiply and divide or because it doesn't really make sense. Yeah. So but I did on the front, you had the little extra multiply on the back. You have the divide. Someone knew they could flip them over. So kids who didn't even really speak could keep up with the class. But yeah, I tried everything. And I also happen to be pregnant. So I go out on maternity leave, and I come back you know, there's a rule in schools they don't really touch the kids down on my knees, take care of the baby, and I feel someone hug me from behind my real still real real still. And I turned my head very slowly, and it's one of my students hugging. And he's so excited. And he said, this was my third time through the class. If I didn't pass it this time, I wasn't gonna be able to graduate. I passed the class with a C so much. Yeah, that was my experience teaching.
How many years were you a teacher?
I taught algebra just that one year. But I taught Sunday school all the way from nursery up your high school for I want to say 20 years
Wow, do you still do it?
No. I, my children now actually teach in those classes. And I'm their hype team. So at my church, I'm a lady at the front desk because I'm good at saying hello to strangers. And it's the best job it's really great job. And so whenever moms come in with that certain stressed out look, I say maybe you take them to the children's program. My daughters are there. And this one time this mom goes downstairs, and then she comes back looking really confused. She says I didn't see your daughter's down there. And they're the grown women teaching the class like Oh, I thought you meant they were your children grew up. It's weird, but they do
and backtrack. So how were you? Were you do you go straight from teaching to copywriting? Like how do you find your way into our crazy little
my degrees are in Paralegal Studies and business management? Because my whole life has been about children. So okay, when I am able to get out of the house because five kids like there's no way you can afford childcare, but they're a little bigger, and I can get out of the house. What am I going to do? Like okay, business management, that makes sense. Law school probably wasn't going to be in the cards for me. But marketing kind of had my attention. And then I thought well I can't just be all have marketing all the time. Okay, copywriting. I moved a lot when I was a kid. I always had pen pals. Like, oh, okay, I can read a letter. I'm good at writing letters. And then I found aw AI and they have that promotion. That's Can you write a letter like this one. I was like, this is such a little thing, that when you're trying to find your place in the world, little things become big things. And so that's specifically how I got into copywriting
so between like, I'm just trying to give the audience like a picture of like your timeline, like when when you're a teacher and then like, between that and discovering copywriting. Like, was it like immediate or did it took me some time to
it took me a bit. So teaching was has been my focus all these years. I've just always been a teacher and a coach, but just in various capacities, a teaching algebra happened in 2002 and 2014 was when I took my first pay copywriting thing. And then from there, it has been freelancing, and then in house and then so it's the timeline gets a little compressed
so in this environment, I just, I'm constantly apologizing. I recorded yesterday too, and telling the audience I'm very distracted easily. It's not because of you. It's the environment and the noise. I'm so sorry about that. Was my question.
Oh, right. Okay. So something that a lot of teachers when they're leaving their job behind, and considering doing something else is like, impostor syndrome and not knowing if there's anything else they can do besides teaching. Did you experience any of that or was it different for you?
I certainly have impostor syndrome, about many, many things. I don't know that anybody ever gets out of that entirely. But teaching requires so many different skills. And that when there are things you don't know you have to get good fast because your students are relying on you to have it together. Even if you're just faking it till you make it. So where there's just I would fight against that. I would say it's a limiting belief because I know what it takes to be a teacher. Yes, scrap, you're resourceful. You just always find a way. This is very much the same. Yeah,
yeah, exactly. So now, you have more people telling you that because I say that all the time. And you know, everyone else who's been on the show has said that like, teaching is not a singular skill. It's so there's so many aspects to it. There are so applicable to everything else and if that your decision is to move into copywriting, there's definitely a lot of skills that can transfer over I mean, even just hearing you talk about the lengths you go to communicate algebra to your students, right, that and then it takes that level of empathy. To be a copywriter as well. Like feel very passionately, the same way. So you took that the you end up taking the Awai course,
I shared it, and the whole program right up into the final exam, which is write a letter about a restaurant. I remember writing it I don't think I turned it in. And that's not really like me. But yeah, I was in a whole new world and what did they didn't like it. recommended the wrong restaurant. It's funny looking back on it now. Because when you're on a steep learning curve like that, everything feels like the biggest deal ever. Yeah, it's mostly not. It's just that you're becoming a person who was always living on their edges. And I just had to embrace that as part of my personality. I just will always be on the edges of what I know that won't change. It's okay to be that person. And then I have to take breaks from that come back into my comfort zone a little bit taken out, and then try it again.
Yeah. Can you Could you walk us through like from that moment, you did that? Awai course to like, where you're at today. Is that a lot?
I took that course. And then I somehow ended up on Kevin Rogers list. What I don't know is that back then there were only 300 people on his list. But he sends out what we now know is a nine word email. And he says, Hey, I'm gonna be taking on five copywriters as part of my team. If you're interested, let me know. I'm interested. I want to know about this. So I reply, he replies back I now realize it was an auto responder. Nevermind, I think it's real. And so he says, You need to take some more writing system, but John Carlton, need to pass an interview with me. Okay, well, in addition to being a teacher, I'm a really good student and I understand a rubric. Like there are things I can do and there are boxes, I can check on doing it. So take the class and I do my very best, and then I get to the interview. And Kevin goes well, have you heard about this thing called Copy chief? You're the chief. I just had a dream about coffee chief last night. I guess. I'm on your team. And he's like, What and it was just weird moment. But copy chief wasn't live yet. You just recently bought the URL and was putting it together. So that's how I became Kevin's first mastermind students.
Wait, so if you just bought the URL, how were you having dreams about it?
Maybe it was because I was still enamored with this idea of coffee cups and poppy chiefs. Oh, no. That I'm like, particularly psychic anymore. I took it as a side because why not? And it was a fun moment. And then officially the doors opened a couple months later. So in September, and I've been part of that group ever since. And that was September of 2014. I took my first paying client and that was a retainer that ended up I thought it was just one sales letter. It ended up being one sales letter a month for 15 months. Wow. My very first client was a retainer client that I've just sort of tripped across. And then from there, it was working in other niches. And then I started coaching for Kevin because he said, Hey, I figured out a way to do what you and I did together in a whole year. I can now compress it into about five or six weeks. Do you want to help me coach it? And that's how I became a copy coach. And then from there, I have remained as a coach through all the different programs that on the side, I have also done work with my freelance clients. And then I went in house and now we're here today.
So were you that program that he asked you to coach or was it like the first iteration of rfl or Oh wow. When was that?
When he was he did rfl one himself did rfl to himself. So I came in for rfl three. So it's been several years now we're on rfl 12. Now,
yeah. So for those in the audience who don't know rfl refers to a real free live real free life and like about taking your freelancing as a copywriter to the next level and becoming a more like established and sustainable business. Yeah, Melanie has been a big part of it. I I try to get on this round, but so packed at work. Yeah. How was how's this time going? For you guys are
always really inspiring. Because people that take that course are the sort that want to think through the exercises. And they're just so passionate about it. So I don't know who's egging who on here. If it's me going, you're doing great orchids then going I want this so bad, but there's something about that energy that's very inspiring.
So is the big question I've been waiting to ask. I don't know how much of it you can talk about which is your journey into like becoming a copy chief for Tony Robbins Yeah. Do you want to share was like the I'm sure like the was there like grueling hiring process, you know, how you felt throughout the journey things like that. You share as much as you're comfortable sharing.
I wouldn't say it was grueling at all. And it all happened so fast. Wow. And I had been working for a particular company for three years was very happy to plan to stay and then all of a sudden, they pivoted direction really fast. So was July 5. And I they lay off half of the department, and I was in the middle of writing a project for them and then suddenly, thank you for your services. As of right now. We don't need you anymore. Enjoy the rest of your day, which was a shock. And I had already paid for a vacation. We were supposed to leave for the beach for a week the next day and I just couldn't think of what else to do. And so we just went to the beach. And we stayed there for a week and hung out together me and the kids and had a wonderful time and then came back from the beach. Okay, now what? And so I tell everybody, invest in your network, build your relationships, especially when you don't need them because one day you will. Yeah. And Kevin was one of the first phone calls and he said, who called who? I message him and say here's what happened. He calls me a couple days later and says Tony Robbins needs a copy to free you when you've never heard a person say yes, so fast in your life. So that was a Tuesday. I was an interview on Friday. I passed that interview. I was in another interview on Monday. And I was just as fast as that background check could be passed. That was it. I was. Here's a funny story about that. So the second company now that I've had to have a background check with they were both really slow in HR made that we're concerned face and I'm like Does somebody else have my name? What's happening? It turns out I live in such a small state that they can automatically check for us everything else but a clerk from the county has to walk to a particular filing cabinet to see if I have any open traffic tickets. Don't by the way, I'm a slow driver. But that's what keeps hanging up my background check not that there's somebody else out there with my name.
So do you want to walk us through? I'm sure it was an emotional journey or Yes. Yeah. Like do you want to share that aspect of it? Like what was going through your mind and how were you feeling throughout the hiring process?
I was thinking a lot about what it would be like to be the hiring manager because I was tried that empathy thing is wrong. Always be in the other person's shoes. You know, all that. They don't want to have to ask me the same questions. Well, but they everybody has to hate that. I do Nobody enjoys that. Like, okay, what if I just told stories What if I just gave them a sense of what it might be like to work with me? And that ended up being the secret to getting the job. Oh, but it is very emotional because some ways you're on stage 1% your best self and you want them to pick you over the other candidates because of course it's an amazing opportunity. It's a little bit risky, because if they don't like you, they're going to find out right away. Wouldn't you want them to know that? Because yeah, to work with these people every day. You may as well like each other. So yes, it was a very emotional thing. But I think it was worth it.
Is Yeah, you took a big risk. That I've never considered that approach into an interview. That's so interesting. So like that. Were you sharing the stories? Because you mentioned there were a few rounds of interviews like Yeah, so you're doing your storytelling and each round? Oh, yeah. Wow.
I approached it just like any intake call for any freelance client. Because if it was me, that's what I would want the other person to do, especially if you're being interviewed for a leadership role. Can they lead even this one conversation turned out
so I'm, I'm wondering if you like in a copy chief role where you're leading a team of like copywriters, can you share with our audience like because I'm all about like teachers recognizing like their transferable skills. But mostly so far I've only spoken to like fellow copywriters. I haven't spoken to a teacher turn copy chief, like, do feel that you managed to transfer any of those skills from teaching, you know, algebra to leading a team and managing copywriters,
almost everything transferred straight over. I spend a lot of time building processes making templates, communicating with other departments, helping other department heads understand the unique needs of my team. You look at a project, same exact project. You look at it from the web developers perspective, from the web designers perspective, from the writers perspective, totally different than I have to advocate for the needs of my particular team, which is exactly the same as teaching because you do spend time in your classroom, trying to communicate the information you have in your head to the students so they can pass the exam graduate and move on with their lives. That part's really important, but also everything else whatever is happening in the front office, everything that's happening around just even getting resources for the people that you care so much about all that transfers straight across.
That's awesome. So I hope that you know, the teachers out there listening and recognizing like, there's so many possibilities for us, you know, once we leave the classroom, and like becoming the copy chief, Tony Robbins one day there's also something else I've always wanted to know I think it's important for parents out there because like you've done this with like five kids. You know, do you want to Is there anything? I'm sorry, I'll keep blanking out because I just had lunch. Be articulate. Yeah, okay. Yeah. How can you do it just you know, as a parent with five kids and then like juggling like copywriting freelancing. Freelancing is a whole other beast in itself outside of copywriting. You know, if you're comfortable sharing Yeah.
When it first started, I had 90 minutes a day between when that last one got on the bus and when one first one got off the bus. So every production thing was either happening in those 90 minutes or two in the morning. Those were my choices. So I learned to only move boulders. I guess priorities first most leveraged things first. As I joke now I'm going to move the boulders and maybe a couple of spoonfuls of sand. We're slowly going to organize this team so I'm only moving the boulders only the highest leverage things that you learn that when you move a boulder you have to stop and then look at what you did to see what the ramifications are. I'd say that's the hardest part for me because I want to go hard and fast. The rule is do a big high leverage thing that you wait. You look to see what happens that you do the next high leverage thing. So for kids the day the last one was born neighbor's 0369 and 12. So everybody had to move as a unit and we would do things like you would put mom at the back of the line. You put dad at the front of the line. Okay, now, seven people as a group, we're gonna go get an ice cream cone. That was a really hard task. Yes. So you walk in a row and you keep a call with the bubble. Everybody stays in the bubble and everybody takes care of everybody else and you just move as a force of nature. Absolutely. Everything had to be like it's not where you have one or two kids where you kind of hold them by the hand and you can have it's just a totally different dynamic. So luckily for me, that mindset was already in place for me before I decided to take on the freelance thing because it's very much the same concept. Everybody is an adult but still we need to work as a team. As a freelancer. I'm plugging into your system, whatever that might be, to help you get the outcome and you just have to keep focusing on the outcome.
I love how you put it. Focusing on the boulders. I'm definitely going to have to remember that because I like to do all of the things and that's not the most strategic way to do anything. So the I think the event is resuming in seven minutes also for those of you are listening and you can hear the background music I apologize about that we tried our best to find a quiet spot. This is the quietest find with internet. So Melanie, do you have any advice for teachers out there who are like on the verge of leaving they're not sure if they can do this copywriting thing, but they know it appeals to them. Like what would you say to get them over the fence like off the fence?
Who I'm going with just do it. But if you could see my face, there's so many specific things you have to learn when you're a teacher to get any kind of outcome at all, all the transfer straight across and it's the fun bits if you're the teacher that likes to build out the worksheets and likes to carve out the learning paths and I'm reading a book right now called talk to the elephant that just came out but it's about design for learning behavioral design for learning. I think it's specifically the field of study, fairly newish field of study. Everything gets planned out. It's like architected, it's not exactly like writing the way we traditionally think of it. carefully thought out carefully designed, carefully structured, it's marching towards a goal. I can't think of a teacher who wouldn't excel at something like
Oh, thank you so much for spending the time I'm sorry, you had to rush through lunch for this. Well, yeah, it's been a dream of mine to like interview you. Kevin keeps asking me like, when when are the interview? Melanie, what do you like? Well, now I've done it. I did it. And you know, I'm just She's a wonderful person. If you ever join our copy chief community, that's the kind of amazing, you know, mentors and coaches that we have in the in the community. Do you have any last words you want to say to the audience
just thank you so much for this opportunity. It's an honor.
Just my little thing that I do on the side, but yeah, hopefully that I know this will help someone out there. So thank you so much family and I will see you guys on the next episode of classroom no copy