Using fashion design and art as a vessel to create change and advanced social justice -- This is Partners in Diversity's Equity Conversations, the podcast.
Hello, I'm Tracey Lam, Director of Programs and Communications at Partners in Diversity. I'm joined today by Jocelyn Rice. She's the Director of Education and Community Engagement at Design Museum Everywhere. She also started her own artistic endeavor called Black Earth United, a lifestyle brand that hopes to inspire black community members to get outdoors. Welcome, Jocelyn. It's so great to have you.
It's so wonderful to be with you. I love being in your presence. So I appreciate it. Thank you.
So Jocelyn, briefly tell us about yourself and your journey to starting black earth united.
I love that word journey because it's the act of traveling from one place to another. And I do feel like this is just a consistent journey, doing this work and exploring this practice. And there's two ways that I thought about describing it. One is very earthbound and another one is quite cosmic maybe. So I'm going to kind of blend the two together. So I am a mother, first and foremost, and a designer by my education, but I'm a curious person and a lover of the outdoors. And I'm just like a student of the world and love to learn, it's my favorite thing to do as a human being. And when I was going through college and trying to explore different ways that I was going to show up into the world in the world professionally, or, you know, to make that, you know, coin, I had a lot of different ways I wanted to plug in at first. I have a my family history has a lot of mental health issues and drug addiction. And so I really thought like, I'll go into the mental health field, or I'll go into some sort of community service where I also am really, really, I love history, I've always loved it, especially black history. It's such a complex and beautiful and tragic story. And so I wanted to be an African American history professor. And so the kind of earthbound version is I was sitting in a African American history class at Portland Community College, Professor Harrison was like the best teacher I ever had. And we learned about the Harlem Renaissance, the new Negro movement, and I had never learned about it in school. I had grown up in really small towns, and that wasn't a part of the curriculum. And so when I learned about it, I really just fell in love with the ability of art and design to kind of reach across oceans and transform the world for Black people. And so I dropped out, and I went to apparel design school. And you know, the rest is, I guess, like, a moment in time. But more so, in a more cosmic way, I really have never felt like I belonged in a certain place. Whenever someone asked me where I'm from, or what I do, it's always like, I'm a citizen of everywhere and nowhere. I've always felt like I didn't belong in school, or I didn't belong in these environments I was in and so the outdoors was always a place where I could just be freely myself and feel unbelievably supported. And so I think it of it led me to this place to start Black Earth United, which is really like you said, it's an artistic endeavor. It's a business. It's a brand that really works to reframe narratives around what being someone who's outdoorsy, I guess, is what the industry says is, and our relationship with it from personal all the way to kind of government policy. So that's a little bit about myself.
That's wonderful. And thank you to Mr. Harrison, wherever he is out there. You mentioned this briefly on your Black Earth United website, you describe yourself as a designer, a mother and an outdoor futurists. So I know what a designer is. And I know what a mother is. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you mean, when you say you're an outdoor futurist?
I love this day and age where you can just dub yourself things. But you're able to just say like, I'm this, this is what I am. And so I'm really interested in the concept of time. It's fascinating to me that time has been used as a tool of oppression for folks. And I find it to be fascinating the way that we view time on this plane of linearness of like, there's a timeline and things happen in this order and that's the way that it is. When I went to a conference, it was the Black Futures Conference at the Harvard School for Design years ago, like not too actually not too long ago, maybe four years ago, five years ago, there was a woman named Rashida Phillips who talked about Black Quantum Futurism. And it was an artistic practice that she started exploring with her partner, Mother Moore. She's a Philadelphia housing attorney, as well as an artist. And I really was in love with this idea of how can we explore designing for Black futures using time travel as a concept. And so for me, it's exploring, like the potential impact and implications of time travel in tandem with the experiences and opportunities of Black folks in the outdoors and the past, present and future. So it's this idea of using this concept of time travel to envision and design a more equitable and just futures for Black communities in the outdoors. Traditionally, a futurist is really someone who specializes in image imaging or predicting futures, and they analyze like outdoor they generalized research, I would say, analyze outdoor Research, kind of adventure, travel environment, environmental conservation work, and like outdoor gear and equipment, and think about how emerging technologies and social changes kind of could impact the way that we interact with the natural world. But I do it through a lens of centering leaders who have not yet been born and leaders that have already been born and are and, and people who are living in the now and explore like, what could the world look like if this never existed? Or if this does exist, and just kind of move in that way that's a little more freeing to think creatively without boundaries? Does that makes sense?
It does, I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about how you you see that, like, what is the future that you're seeing? Right now, through your work?
I get really nervous about saying it because I realize there's so -- I'm involved in a lot of work with a lot of organizations who are working really hard to champion for our rights. And within government policy, I just got back from a trip to DC with the Alaskan Wilderness League and doing work for the Gwich'in, with the Gwich'in people and advocating for them with Congress to like not pass the Willow Project, which did end up passing. But hopefully, we'll figure out ways to avoid that tragedy. I also work with on the ground organizations that are doing work here. And so I think for me at the moment, I see things in pattern. And so I unfortunately, I think if I think about America, as I think and I think about it in terms of America, that's where I live, that's where I plug into the most. And I think that we as a society are so individualistic, and so privileged, and how we think about our relationship with the outdoors, that I am concerned that the future is not so bright when it comes to some of the environmental implications and things that are going on in our country, and I guess others as well. And I just, I look at it as how can I help people who are on the ground doing that really difficult work? And when I'm designing my gear for apparel, too, it's like, how can I make sure that I'm looking at it from that massive perspective, and not just saying, I want to make something that's that helps you stay dry, cool, warm and protected outside? It's a bigger conversation. And so I think if we do not think about let's just say fashion, because that's my kind of love is design and fashion, if we don't think about that on a broader scale, and really get honest with ourselves. And we have some real serious, there's some real serious implications to that. And so I don't necessarily feel super hopeful at the moment, to be perfectly honest. But I think in due time, that pattern will eventually Mother Nature will do what she needs to do to get us corrected.
Yeah. And I just wanted to be clear, the Willow Project you're talking about is the massive oil drilling project out in the North Shore of Alaska, correct? Yes. You know, as I'm reading more, and you mentioned that the how the fashion industry and the design world can be bad for the environment. What's less discussed is how it also intersects with human rights and social justice issues, which I know it's another topic that you're passionate about, how has the fashion and design been racist or inequitable?
I mean, I think environmental justice is social justice. So those things that we talked about, um, in terms of it being very polluted as an industry that pollutes, um, it's an industry that extracts resources from the environment, and it does extract it from cultures as well. So I think we all know one way is through cultural appropriation. Black culture specifically has been appropriated without proper credit or compensation for as long as we can remember. That included something as minor as you go to Joann Fabrics and you pick up a traditional African style pattern without giving credit to the original creators of that pattern or the culture all the way to, you know, Gucci and perpetuating stereotypes that take away from the cultural significance of individuals and their place in the world. There's a really amazing book called "Race and Retail" that's one of my favorite books. It just kind of outlines different ways, um, not only within Black culture, but every culture that white supremacy is showed up. There's lack of opportunities for Black designers and entrepreneurs. And colorism is a massive issue that in sense of marketing and messaging, I remember when I was designing apparel, when I had first gone to school here in Portland, I was one of the only Black design -- was the only Black designer and then I was the only one that asked specifically, I want Black models that also have different body types. So that's another issue of just ableism. It's a very kind of dirty industry, but it could be so bomb. So it's just like, you know, it's one of those things like it's a relationship. That is definitely, it's a difficult one to analyze, because we all need those clothes, we're all wearing them all of the time. And we think about it like that. I mean, we don't even think about it, we just put on something and leave the house. And there's so many ways in which it hurts different cultures in the environment, just the lack of representation, cultural appropriation, racial profiling, lack of opportunities, and that insensitive marketing and messaging are probably the five ways I would see it playing out in terms of if we remove the environmental justice, which is a whole other thing.
In addition to to the injustice in creating fabric, and the purchasing and marketing, people have also been discriminated against based on what they wear, right. And fashion has been political in many ways. There have been many laws across the world that tell women what they can or can't wear as a way to controlling them in society. And you regularly host workshops that use design and fashion, as tools for healing and storytelling. Talk about these workshops and the impact they have had on you, as well as the impact that they've had on participants.
I have loved doing these, it was something that I feel like a lot of things that I do is like I get a, I get an idea, or I have a dream, and I'm just like, I'm gonna do it. It was like move forward without fully like, realizing what I'm doing, which I think is a blessing and also can be a curse. If you're trying to be a business, small business owner, there probably should be a little bit more prep. But these came out of just really wanting when I left the outdoor industry as a designer, I'd worked for decades, and that it were a decade in that industry and trying to have conversations with these massive corporations that have provided me the ability to have a house to raise my son injured, like there's all these beautiful things about it, the security of it. And the learning and the people that I met in the places I got to go are incredible. And I don't want to I always am trying to figure out ways to make sure that I pay respect to that part of my life, it was really important. But there were a lot of really difficult things about being a woman of color in that space, particularly a black woman, I constantly was saying like, why are we not showing up in the marketing? Why can't we design these durags? Why can't like all of these discussions of we really need to start centering Black people in these spaces. And those conversations were impossible to have one because I'm one person and one Black woman in this space. And I we're not a monolith. And my perspective, especially as one who was raised in a white family and I am identify as Black, but my mother is white. So I have biracial human being, and my cultural experiences are different, the level of melanin in my skin is lighter. And so I'm afforded with those things that I can't fully see, I can't fully see, you know, I can't fully feel and having those conversations in that space. There was no seeing or feeling anything. And so when I left and I was just left to kind of ruminate on my experiences over time, I realized like I just am like thirsty to have these conversations with my community. And so I had reached out to a friend of mine, Jordan Hales, who is an incredible human being and creative and asked her to help me host these workshops. And so we walk people through a journey but like a time circle of centering particularly, like Harriet Tubman or Joseph Kapler, or folks people might have never heard of or people that they have heard of like Harriet and um, walk them through like what do we want for her and what do we want for ourselves like constantly putting ourself in somebody else's shoes in these in ways of like we have, you know, oranges that we get to taste or strawberries because strawberries were her favorite food that she would eat all this local goblet once that she she ended up getting a house and I'm here yet when she ended up getting a house in Auburn And it was like our favorite food to eat. And we listen to music and we sing together and we dance. And we have the coveralls laid out and we draw on these coveralls together with the future we want for ourselves and our people in the outdoors, and what would it have been like if we weren't enslaved? What would that have been like? And I think providing a space for people, particularly black folks who have really been left, don't have that conversation, left out of that conversation, and have been told a narrative about ourselves. There was love in slavery, people were in love, and people got married, and people had children, and people danced and they sang. And they found ways to rise above that, it isn't that that didn't, those two things can exist at the same time. And providing a space to explore those things. And just dream together, which we don't get an often we don't get to do very often has been such a pleasure. It's beautiful to do. I've done it with majority majority of white audiences and our participants and with like black and indigenous, and it's the same feelings, people cry, like I have held a man's like head in my hands as he just cried, and I didn't know him. And then everybody comes around and like holds him to an art that is created is so spectacular, that being able to just experience that with people and have that trust of so many different folks. The last one I did, there was a baby there who was like drawing on this stuff. And you know, a woman who's in her like 80s, and like that intergenerational sharing that interdisciplinary sharing, and doing it through art and design, and like focusing on the apparel as a vessel for dreaming I think is just something new and exciting. And it's been an is such a joy and an honor to be able to do those things with people and I love it.
That is amazing. Jocelyn, what do you hope participants would get out of that.
You've got to play like this work is tough. And the the people that I do it with predominantly our, you know, like retail employees, I've done it for like people that are doing really, I mean, it's hard to be an employee, it is not especially like COVID being able to look for outdoor retail employees, I think is really beautiful. And like create dream, it is so unbelievably critical. Like give yourself permission to be playful. And I think that's one thing that I hope they get out of it. And other thing is that I believe that our clothes are sacred. I have a ridiculous amount of clothes like I love fashion and apparel I have people always make fun of me about how many clothes I have. So I am a participant of this problem. And I am like the hypocrisy is kind of there.
But using these coveralls and centering a garment in saying like we you put this on every single day like you are, you're you're putting your spirit into this thing. And like really when you're making these decisions about what you're purchasing who you're purchasing it from understanding the relationship between that garment, the fabric, the person that is sewing it and creating it, the factory like all of these things matter. And wanting people to understand that you making informed decisions about your apparel is is also really, really important. It's okay to go buy something at h&m but just have an understanding of what the implications are. If you do that again and again and again and again. And when we use the coveralls, they are a vessel from Joseph K. Bowler, who I mentioned earlier, who is a preacher from the antebellum south and he created the Jim Crow traveling kit. And the coveralls were a part of that kit he created. And so being able to use that as well, I think is just a really powerful thing. I believe that all things have energy, and everything. Even this computer that we're on right now together comes from Mother Nature, there's nothing that doesn't. And being able to make those connections I think are really critical and moving forward for people and making more informed decisions about their life and what they were.
So following up on that -- for those who want to make some informed decision and really lean into the space about design and social justice. What advice would you have for people who are listening who want to do this?
In my opinion, it would really be just exploring other industries. I love architecture, I know they have their own issues like every industry has their own issues. So this isn't to say that one is better than another but there are our other industries are required to think a little broader about their how they're showing up in the world. And I think apparel is one of those things that we really limit ourselves. It's like if you find something beautiful, you're going to make it whereas in you have to consider as an architect who's going to be coming into that place, the ADA accessibility, the who you're going to be if it's going to be gentrifying places. That's urban planning, like there's all these other industries that you can really learn from as you're thinking about out what you're making, and just read,
I'm gonna throw out one more advice, which is to go to a museum to learn. Which leads me to my next question. You know, we focus a lot on your work in fashion and how it intersects with social and racial justice. So I want to pivot briefly to talk about your day job at the Design Museum Everywhere, because it's all connected, right? So, share a little bit about your work at the design museum everywhere.
Oh, my gosh, this was like the best job. I really love this work. It is a kind of a new kind of museum. As they say on their website, they inspire social change to the transformative power of design. My role is their community centered events, and educational programs about design and social change and innovations in business, society and culture. We do a lot of creative career development and reverse mentoring with students and design professionals as well. And the community is just some of the most incredible people I think that's what I love most about it is, again, those cross disciplinary learnings that we get and intergenerational learnings. Artists transformable design is transformable. And every single thing is designed and everyone is a designer. And if we can empower people to and I caution using the word empower, but I that's all I have, that's what I can think of at the moment. But we encourage people to really lean into their creativity and their knowledge from their life, and how they've designed their life and also trained designers and have discussions about how can we make this world equitable for everybody.
I love the idea of having this design mentality in creating change. Because in an earlier conversation, we talked about how even like policymakers or lawmakers, they are also designers, right, as they're designing laws to make lives better. So I just really love the idea of having this like creative mentality in curating ideas as an artist would.
For sure. And I think that's a great point. Like I worked recently on a the river Democracy Act that Senator Wyden and Merkley worked on. And it was beautiful to read that it was such a well designed and crafted bill. And we do that work to where we work with we just had a designing government talk that we did at Portland State. And we talked with senators about like, how are we designing policy within the city and there's a woman who wants to have a big summit where we read -- it's Oregon Kitchen Table -- and she wants to redesign the Bill of Rights. People that are thinking that way is so dope, and there's nothing but like positivity that can come from that, but it will be a long road to get there. I probably won't see that change. You probably won't live to see it either. But those kinds of thoughts are happening for people and that's super, super exciting.
Oh, thank you so much, Jocelyn, for sharing your journey. It really opened my eyes to the ways in which fashion and design can be used to transform our world and make it a better place. Thank you so much.
Of course, thank you so much. It was so beautiful to get to talk to you again.
Jocelyn talked about learning from other industries. Next month, we will speak with a construction design expert to explore the idea of using architecture as a vehicle for Equity and Inclusion. This has been Equity conversations, the podcast, a production of Partners in Diversity. Thank you for joining us. Please check out our other episodes and be sure to send us feedback.