Cutting Edge Neuroscience How To Clean Up Your Mental Mess with Dr Caroline Leaf

1:38PM Aug 8, 2023

Speakers:

Angela Foster

Dr Caroline Leaf

Keywords:

brain

work

feel

conscious mind

happening

people

medication

body

child

functioning

withdrawal

signals

talk

mind

antidepressant

give

book

biomedical model

process

issue

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Think of the brain and the body, not as a machine that evolved parts broken you can take it out and put it back in the air conditioner breaks or something. It doesn't work like that to the brain. Every single thing is connected to every single other thing.

You're listening to the high performance health podcast helping you optimise your health performance and longevity. My name is Angela Foster, and I'm a former corporate lawyer and high performance health coach. Each week I bring you a cutting edge bio hacks, inspiring insights and high performance habits to unlock optimal health performance and longevity. So excited that you've chosen to join me today. Now let's dive in.

Hi friends. In this week's episode, we're going to be talking all about the brain and how to keep it healthy and also the mind what really is the mind what's the difference between the mind and the brain? And how the mind is really the body's lifeforce. We also talk about how the non conscious mind operates 24/7 and is highly intelligent, and what its role is when you're asleep. We'll talk about neuroplasticity, the effect of antidepressant medication on the brain and also importantly on sexual health and a whole lot more. I'm excited to welcome back to the show Dr. Caroline leaf who is a communication pathologist, audiologists clinical and cognitive neuroscientist with a Master's and PhD in communication pathology and a BSc in Logan P Dec specialising in cognitive and meta cognitive neuropsychology. Since the early 1980s, Dr. Leif has researched the mind brain connection, the nature of mental health and the formation of memory. And she was one of the first in her field to study how the brain can change with directed mind input. And she's helped hundreds of 1000s of students and adults learn how to use their mind to detox and grow their brain to succeed in every area of their lives, including school, university and the workplace. She has a new book out how to help your child clean up their mental mess, which follows her other hugely popular book cleaning up your mental mess. Five simple, scientifically proven steps to reduce anxiety, stress and toxic thinking. I've read both of them. They're both brilliant. We'll put a link in the show notes to both of those books. So now without further delay, let me welcome back Dr. Caroline leaf. So Dr. Caroline, I'm so excited to welcome you back to the show. I've been really looking forward to this. I know last time you were on it was a really popular episode. Albeit a bit short. We didn't have much time. So thank you so much for coming back today.

Oh, well, thank you so much, Angela. It's great to see you again. And great to talk to you again. I'm excited.

Yeah, I'm excited too. I think I'd really like to start with looking at for you to explain. I was actually listening to you being interviewed by Ed Mallette. Earlier this morning, it was a great episode really interesting. And I think a really good place to start is for you to explain to listeners, what the difference is between the mind and the brain? Because I think this often gets muddled up.

Oh, totally. And I think that's an excellent place to start. Because it's something that people are pretty confused about, you know, in the general kind of languaging of today in the media and just how people talk about the mind and the brain, it would appear that they're the same thing. And the words are used interchangeably. People go, oh my mind or Oh, my brain or you know that fixing your mind or fixing your brain they use very interchangeably. And so they're one but they so incredibly different. So your brain is literally a physical substrate very complex, obviously, with too often compared to a computer, but it's way more complex than a computer. A computer basically, would be similar to just one neuron in the brain in terms of its functionality versus the complexity of how the brain works. But the brain can't switch itself on it. It can't do anything on its own. It has to be activated. And the mind is the activator of the brain, if that makes sense. So if you think of it like this, if we did, our brain is disintegrating, our body is disintegrating, nothing's happening. That's logical. But we're alive and having this conversation and your viewers and your listeners are able to process and, and respond and think and feel and choose about this information that we sharing. And that is because of the mind. So a mind is our aliveness that activates the brain and the brain, the body collectively together respond to the mind. So it's an internet cushion between the aliveness of the mind that enables us to think and feel and choose and respond to everything that we experience in life. And it does this through absorbing literally the electromagnetics sound, we're light waves and the sound waves and the gravitational fields. And all of that gets bought into, into our mind zone, or mind area, which is somewhere around and through all of our, of brain and body, and the brain and body are activated and respond. And they respond in a way that the information is built into the brain by the mind, and the mind brain connection into the brain as as tree like structures, I've got a little tree over here. So it's like a tree like structure and into the body, it changes all the cells of the body, and gets built into what we call the cytoskeleton of the cell. So cells in our body have an ability to store experiences as well a little bit different to the brain, but they seem to be stored in our body too. And then the experience is also stored in the field gravitational fields of the mind, sometimes referred to as the bio field, or just the energy. Just think of it as on physics on a physics level as electromagnetic lightwaves. And you can even think of a podcast if you're if you're just listening to a podcast, you can see the little lines going up and down. That concept of a wave of energy. That's kind of how I'm online stores the information. So every experience we have because of our mind is stored in our mind and our brain and our body. As soon as you die. That doesn't happen anymore, you've nothing happens. So your mind is most on the most basic level or on the most basic level is your ability to be alive to process life. And the brain is the what it uses to physically process life into an in the brain, drafts body, and then the three together work as one. And we show up in this conversation in our relationships in life every moment of every day.

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Good Good point. It's embody talk about us. And we talk about the mind being around the body as well. We don't show how far out okay, yes, so all of us have like a biofield around us tumours like you know electrostatics if you will pass them on and you give that like electric shock sometimes, that's, you know, there's these because of what our body is generating in terms of heat and we generating electromagnetic lightwaves and from our body but that's because we were alive so it first comes in and they regenerate it out. So when you put an EEG on someone's head, for example, you are reading mind action in the brain. You see you're reading the response of the brain To the mind and fMRI, an EKG on your heart, any kind of ultrasound, all of that is looking at life happening in the body and activating the body to respond. Because an ultrasound on a dead person won't show you anything, an EEG on a dead person show you anything. So that's kind of a nice way to picture it. So the mind is not in one area. It's around and through everything.

Okay, and also outside of us. Amazing. So it sounds like the mind is our life force, right? Because then when someone's dead is gone. That's what you see.

Exactly. That's exactly what that's why I say aliveness, lifeforce aliveness. Yeah, that's a really great way of seeing it.

So with that being the case, then when people talk about mind, body spirit optimization, that sounds to me to be duplicative? Because actually, mind and spirit seem to be the same thing.

Good question. Excellent, very insightful. So mind has got different levels. Two, if you could think of the mind, the brain, the body. And think of in the mind as having different levels, the conscious mind we operating in now we consciously awake when we were asleep a few hours ago. So that when you go to sleep, or when you're under anaesthesia, or when you are knocked out with a baseball bat, hopefully that won't happen, that something like that you are in your consciousness goes and you're in a state of sleep, which would be unconsciousness. So you have conscious mind when you're awake. And then when you go to sleep, you become you know, your mind goes into into a state of unconsciousness. But it's that and that's not doing anything, it's just basically a brain state. So you think of it like this conscious mind. Non conscious in our in the non conscious mind is the biggest part of us. It operates 24/7 It's highly intelligent, it's beyond space and time. And so it's not bound by Present Past and Future extremely complex, and it never goes to sleep during the day are non conscious mind is helping us process everything that's going on around us 95% of what we are exposed to on in any one moment is being absorbed by the non conscious mind. And evaluated by the non conscious mind, we consciously are only aware about 5%, the conscious minds only work when you're awake, the non conscious enter in is therefore work 24/7. Between the two, we have the subconscious, the subconscious is like a doorway, we're a portal between the conscious mind and an unconscious mind. So when we go to sleep, the conscious mind and the subconscious mind pretty much go to sleep as well. And the brain goes into an unconscious state, but the non conscious is still functioning, which is why we have dreams and why we process stuff. Your non conscious mind when you're asleep, is basically trying to help you sort out what's been happening during the day, and to prepare you for the next day and to kind of scan and do kind of a housekeeping type function and scan through the networks of your mind brain body connection to see, okay, what today did this person absorb that is disruptive to their functioning, maybe some an argument or maybe some kind of horrible thing that happened or politics or racism was, you know, poverty, you know, those are big words for specific individual experiences, each person has been in those kinds of categories. And those toxic things would be disruptive to functioning. And those toxic things would have wired into the brain and created a a tree, that thought tree network that would look unhealthy versus healthy. And so those are disruptive to our physical and mental functioning. So the role of the non conscious when you're asleep is to work with the brain in an unconscious state, and the body in an unconscious state to find out to find these disruptive things and prepare us for the next day do whatever fixing up it can do. And then when we wake up the next day, it seems gathers all this data and sends us signals through the subconscious into the conscious mind to as like signals exactly what a signal is to pay attention to something that's going on inside of us if that makes sense. So when we go through the day when we wake up, and we start feeling maybe a bit of uneasiness, or we find ourselves worrying, or we find an intrusive thought keeps popping up, or we find that there's a certain pattern that we've fallen into over the past few days or weeks or months, those would be classified as signals that are coming from an unconscious mind and into the conscious mind. And they're calling our attention as and to pay attention to find what they're attached to what is the thought or the experience they're attached to. So that we can then deconstruct those and reconstruct those if they disruptive to our functioning. You don't want to keep disruptive networks in your brain that are thought thought networks, you want to basically make them work for you. You want to deconstruct them and reconstruct them. And that leads to the optimization and we were talking a little bit before moving into your future self and that kind of thing.

Interesting. Okay. So I think this was when I interviewed I don't know if you know Dr. Patrick Porter, who is the founder of brain tap. He talks a lot and in fact in brain tap, he is the device and it's sort of repro Graham's different thoughts and things, he talks about your other than conscious mind. And it sounds like that is the the non conscious now, if the subconscious is this sort of Portal, it's also kind of, I guess, spoken a lot about the fact that we're driven by the subconscious mind, and only something like 5% of the behaviours we we adopt are conscious. And we kind of put things onto automatic pilot is that well, now that we understand this distinction, actually, there are three layers? Where is that happening? That sort of programming and the belief systems and things? Where are they residing?

Okay, so the concept of programming has been around for years. And it's not actually accurate. Because programme implies something that's fixed, you know, the offence often referred to as your cassette tapes, people often lose their energy of a cassette tape that just gets stuck and replays and replays and replays. And it makes that level of our humanity seem very, almost mechanical and unintelligent, and that's the last thing that it is. So what happens is that we experience something and whatever we think about the most will grow and become dominant and organically grow more and more. So if we have a certain way of responding to something, we build that into a network in the brain and we stabilise that we are essentially doing is building a habit. And that takes around about 63 to 66 days to form the basic sort of peak or peak would would go with what we would call a peak plateau happening where it's now become a behaviour that's driving your functioning. But it's not a mechanical programme per se, it is a very organic and developing way of functioning. That is, if it's negative, it's going to be challenged by the the healthy the wise part of us the non conscious part of our mind, that's protecting us that's going through survival that is wired for love for some of us scientists, we talk about things around brain body connection, or second neurobiology being wired for love. So it's so there's always opposition to anything that is going to take nor survival in any way. So there's a lot of stuff going on in an unconscious, it's very organic and very dynamic and very interactive. And then that in that data net done a dynamism or interaction of the non conscious protecting us and the non conscious to to make us aware of these, these networks that have been built in it are very organic, that combination pushes it through the subconscious, subconscious doesn't hold anything. It is not programmes in the subconscious. That's the incorrect kind of understanding. But it's, it's totally understandable if everyone thinks that because that's the language that's been used. The great thing is that the subconscious is simply a portal, it's a transferring place. And the non conscious mind is so vast, and these, these these networks that are so dynamic are so vast, because we've been building them since literally since birth, and and maybe even a little bit earlier than that. And they also boasted that our conscious mind con doesn't work on the same at the same speed who doesn't have the same capacity as an unconscious, for example, the non conscious is operating at speeds of 10 to the 26th, which is faster than 400 million actions per second. It's hugely fast, the conscious mind operates somewhere around the region of 2000 actions per second. So that's why we often hear our memories chunked into seven chunks so that we can be aware of these things popping into our mind in chunks. And that's because the vastness of the non conscious identifies these problematic areas, pushes them through the subconscious in they have to be funnelled, and they pop up as this kind of like my hand is doing my fingers are doing this, these things pop up by roundabout, and then they go back down again. So we have these thoughts, which are basically networks containing memories of things that we need to work on, or pay attention to be moved and channelled through. And if we don't stop and focus on them and do something about them, they go back into the unconscious even stronger than before. So it's not this mechanistic thing. It's a very dynamic interaction and a lot of stuff going on. And what we as humans can do is we can train ourselves to become aware of those signals. And I'll explain what those are once we get a little bit deeper. But we essentially the idea is we can train ourselves to become aware of those signals. And the signals aren't always about bad stuff. The signals are also bad, good stuff about the optimization type thing, concept about synchronicity that's really what you talk a lot about in your podcast is really trying to get the best article on how you function as a human and that optimization. So what are the unconscious will do is it will try it also look for the stuff that's been great in your life like maybe a great conversation or a beautiful time spent with a loved one or a great book you've read or a great movie you've watched that made you feel Great quote or whatever, and it will also grab those and push those through this portal of the subconscious into conscious mind. And if we just kind of gloss over those moments, we lose an opportunity to really unmask our resilience and optimise our functioning. So we should train ourselves as well to look for the signals that are on a, what we could say, positive scale, or a healthy scale that'll make you feel great and that kind of stuff. As well as the beat of the things that are toxic, and we need to work on both and be totally capable of doing that. It's just a matter of organising the messiness of our conscious mind. And helping a conscious mind to be more organised. That's why we talk about cleaning up the mental mess, it's a process a lifestyle of training ourselves a skill that we build, to be very aware that messiness is okay, but we need to manage our messiness moment by moment. Otherwise, we get stuck in a messy mode, and then the types of skills and we can start, you know, battling with mental health issues and things like that, and, and decrease intelligence, optimization, creativity, and all those kinds of things. Because it makes sense.

That does make sense. So if you have two children, for example, and a family and you're looking at them, and one seems very laid back, and always kind of happy disposition doesn't get stressed out, the other seems very prone to anxiety, is it then that one is observing more of these sort of, I don't want to label them as negative, but more of these signals coming up from the non conscious mind that are not embracing of all the good things and the things that went well, whereas the other one seems to be trending more in that direction. So what you're focusing on, you get more of would that be right is that is they're sort of training their, their brain almost themselves as to what is on their mind as to what it should do?

Yes, and no, so So the Yes, part is that we have a unique each of us, as we all know, unique. So our mind, no two minds are the same. I mean, it really is the truth, we each have a unique way that we think, feel and choose. So for example, people listening to this podcast now are hearing the same message, the same words, but they processing them differently. So that processing their their mind, action, the thing feel choose to make sense of what the hearing is different for everyone. So take that uniqueness, and lay that on the uniqueness of who a person is how they actually function, some everyone's so different. So everyone looks at life in a different way. And a person that maybe is more sensitive, versus someone who's maybe seems more laid back. Neither of those are negative qualities, or neither is one better than the other. It's just that that that trait of that person, mixed with the unique way that they think feel and choose sort of so sort of the genetics of the nurturing with, you know, the nature, the nurture. And then there's the third factor, we don't speak about enough. And that's the eye factor. So there's what you've given genetically new traits. And what you how you do, however, you nurtured what you're exposed to your lifestyle, the environments you grew up in those two, there's always this, this debate between which is stronger than the other, it's not that one is stronger than the other, it's just that they work together in a in a, you know, in a net sort of networked way. But they actually controlled by the AI factor. And that's the uniqueness of who you are. So let's say you have a child, who happens to have in the genetic disposition, a beautiful, highly sensitive nature, that and but they happen to maybe be in a school, in the same school as the sibling, who in their disposition also has a beautiful knack, really stressed both of these great tends to just take off a little bit more easy to kind of, you know, goes with the flow a little bit more, both great, both, it doesn't mean that the one does isn't sensitive, and one doesn't go with the flow, but there's just a tendency to go in one direction a little bit more. And you put those two people into a situation that is very similar. But every experience that we have is always different. And maybe the child who's highly sensitive, gets teased a bit more, or the teasing that they receive is felt on a scale of 10 versus the other one, who's teased in the maybe the same way, it feels it on a scale of two or something like that. And if it's constant, it was just a one off situation, it won't make a big difference. But if it's a persistent thing that starts happening over time, the child who's got maybe a more highly sensitive type trait within the complexity because you can't just simply categorise people's it's very broad would be saying, but the unique way that they perceiving because of how they look at the world, or they think that means that they will take into themselves and why into the networks, a lot more around that teasing incident, for example, then potentially the other one, and then that can then flow over into how they perceive anything that's similar. So they get triggered because it becomes something that they maybe go home and think about and they don't know how to talk about it so that they ruminating on it. So it's getting bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger the negative side of this good trait. And so things get out of proportion, and then each trigger becomes bigger than what it could potentially be. And so Toby So that minute glands have been a situation where they seem to be reacting to everything. And it's when a child starts getting into a pattern of seeming to be overreacting to everything and seem that the sensitivity is now shifting in the wrong direction. That's a signal for parent and a teacher not to think that there's something wrong with the brain or whatever mental illness, which is, unfortunately, what the current biomedical model will tell you, is to either say, Okay, this beautiful high sensitivity in this child is somehow disrupted and working against them, something's going on. So we want to give that child the tools to be able to tell the story to express themselves to be able to express these emotions and how it feels in the body and the behaviours and you know, how they saying things and their perspective. And they've, you want to give them a way of actually unpacking that and processing it. So deconstructing it and then re conceptualising that to give them to give them perspective, because they've kind of lost perspective. So that's a skill you can teach them. On the other hand, the child is so laid back could get into a situation with a bull that that becomes a bad, a toxic sort of habit, we don't really, you know, they get away with things and they get kind of maybe rewarded for maybe not working as hard or you're just kind of made managing to sort of be so laid back, that becomes a negative thing, and it gets reinforced. So then that becomes something that works against them instead of for them. And the same sort of thing can happen, if that makes sense. So it's all Times reported from very young. And this is my youngest patients in my, in my clinic when I was still practising were two and three years of age. And what I would work on first always was identity is to help, you know, obviously, your child gets to you've got to work on it with a parent and that kind of thing. But who am I? How do I uniquely think, feel and choose? How does your child uniquely think, feel and choose understanding more of that, and building that in the person in Syndicate, this is how you look at life. Now let's see how that's working for you and against you. Obviously, if it's a young child, you're working with a parent to do that. But there are ways that you can verbalise this to a child in very simplistic ways. And that's why I've written this book. That's my latest book, which is how to help a child Tina Timmy to miss we have created character, this character called brainy. And this is a toy that people can also get if they interested. And brain is throughout the book as a character that walks the mental health journey. And brainy is has a says as a superpower called the neuro cycle, which is a process a five step process that you can teach a two year old, but it's how you when you feel overwhelmed by life, when you feel sad, or when you feel angry, you can go through those steps. And, and you can do it all through imagery and play. And that kind of thing. You can teach your child this, but it gives them to full, I feel, I don't know what to do with this image. And they don't have the words that as a 2345 year old, but if they know, okay, I feel like this, I can pick up my brand new I can point to their picture in the book, or I can do what my, what my mom has taught me, they're not consciously thinking of it, but none consciously, you've given them a tool, and they'll start using that tool of being able to then process. I mean, I'm sure you've seen this recently, there was I don't know if you saw it in the UK. But there was a little clip on Good Morning America little things, this child was three of three and a half. And was talking about how he got very sad when his mom stopped in play, because he had to go to bed. But just the way that the three year old was able to say, you know, to talk through with that I felt sad, because you told me to have to go to bed. And this made me feel like this in my tummy got so when I had this and I know I got crossed with you, you can det child, the children are so insightful. And if you give them that ability to be able to process through instead of it being a tantrum that you think you have to discipline and create all kinds of other issues. You've given a child a way of saying, Okay, I did this, that upset the status quo in the house. This is why I did it. And this is what I'm processing through. And you've got a point that you can then connect and talk with that child and it builds a deep meaningful relationship. So that's what I've tried to do with with the work that I've done and the research I've done over these years and put it into simple terms for a parent to be able to empower themselves and their children in how to manage this kind of situation.

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Oh, thank you. I try and do that. Because when you start talking about mental health, we all got so frightened by the term. I think parents are so frightened and adults and like and humans, because of this whole Oh, you got a brain disease. And you know, it kind of makes you feel oh, you got cancer. It's that kind of feeling that people get and, you know, it's the mental health crisis is on the rise, and you keep getting all this messaging. So people feel what can I do, they don't feel empowered. So I'm trying to empower people to help themselves and help the children or kids in the nieces, nephews, whatever grandchildren to do to realise you can actually get this under control.

Yeah, you absolutely can. And I love your work. It's been impactful on me and my journey. And you know, when I went through my personal journey with clinical depression, I was told that I would always be on medication for the rest of my life and on, you know, not just antidepressants, but also anti psychotics, and I questioned that and thought there must be another way and kind of utilise the medication to allow me overtime to do the work that I needed to do. And now I haven't taken medication in sort of coming up to four years, which I have worked on. And that feeling that I used to get, have a sort of sense of trepidation and struggle about the day has gone. So you're assuming that it's not nothing set in stone, but it's quite something when, you know, a very senior psychiatrist says to you, you you need to be on medication, it's very risky for you to come off because of bipolar s and things like that. And I think it's disempowering. I'm so happy with what you do, because it's really truly disempowering. When you hear that message.

I'm so glad you shared that. And you know, really, congratulations for what you did and how you've just you know, had speaking on this because, and yeah, I'm really mean that because it's encouraging to other people because yes, there's biomedical model has given psychiatry and a lot of, you know, psychologists this power. That is, I believe it's been abused. And I noticed that you know, the UK is really advanced when it comes to this, more so than the United States and other parts of the world when it comes to challenging that model. And, you know, you've got great people like Jana Moncrief and Professor gentlemen Clifford University College London and Professor Mike Horowitz, and that people that I've worked with and have interviewed and sign that talk about the lab done the research showing, hey, we you know, this they and they are psychiatrists saying, Hey, you can't need this medication is not a medication. First of all, psychotropics, antidepressants, etc. They're not medications, the medication is something that is actually targeted towards a disease, with a hope of alleviating the disease source, or at least treating the symptoms. So the implication is that there is a symptom that's physical, and can be tracked to some biological cause in the brain or body. And that if you give them medication, it's targeting hopefully, as close as possible, because there's no medicine that's 100% accurate, to help alleviate the symptoms. That model is the biomedical model would be eautifully, when it comes to physical ailments of the brain and the body, that when it comes to mind mental health, things like depression and anxiety, those are not illnesses on the same level as the diabetes, and they so often have been explained, as we talk about our diabetes and bipolar is backed by diabetes, it's nothing remotely the same. Because first of all, Bipolar depression in itself is not a disease. It's a, it's a sync signal, that is something that's not right in your life. And these signals a series of things. So it's one of those signals I spoke about earlier on. So if you if we think of the word bipolar depression, don't think of disease or brain disease. Don't think of labels. Don't think of any of that rather think of, oh, this is a description of information about this. It's this signal that's giving me information about something I need to pay attention to. It's something trying to get my attention. So depression is actually good for you. If it's balanced, if you think of a balancing scale, we have depression and anxiety and all those things in this part and we have joined satin, whatever they and we have to have both as humans because without feeling a bit depressed when you think of what's going on in the world, you wouldn't be you wouldn't be having any empathy. We really should feel depressed when we look at, you know, immigrants dying in boats, you know, outside of Greece and that kind of thing. We look at the racism we should be depressed and sad because that motivates us to do something and to have empathy and to ensure functioning our humanity. But that's when it's balanced. But when we don't know how to manage that, and we told that we have a brain disease, and we don't get a chance to talk about what's going on the things in our life, and that gets ignored, well, then this is going to took in the other direction, because you're not consciously sending you these signals and saying, Hey, this toxic issue needs to be dealt with. And you know, pops a signal comes up a bit of depression, and you don't deal with it goes back, it's big. And now the next time the depression is bigger, so the scale tips and now depression shifts to the point where it's no longer working for you, it's now working against you. But it's still not a disease. But now it's creating physical risk in physical things, vulnerabilities in your brain and body, because it's tipped into the danger zone, we know your brain and body immune system are activated to see that as a challenge. And so now we've got to, we've got to get the scales back and we get the skills back not by saying you have a chemical imbalance, because that's not what you have does. That's not the cause of your depression. To get the scale back in line, we have to allow you to tell your story, we have to allow you to embrace those signals to process them and reconceptualizing we need to say okay, how are you feeling? How is this showing up in your body? How's this affecting your perspective on life? How is this affecting your behaviours, what you say and what you do? Why do you think that's happening? Let's, let's capture this information. Let's let's look at the patterns and the triggers. Let's look at this through another lens, let's reconceptualize this, let's see if we can reconstruct this, this has happened, we can't change what's happened. But we can change what it looks like inside of you, you know, what is the antidote, and then getting some sort of action that starts moving in that direction. And doing that which is actually called the neuro cycle, those five steps that I've just described, and we can label them in a moment, those five steps if you do those in a deliberate and intentional plan and guided way, daily for around 15 to 45 minutes, you will rewire the mind brain body connection, your work conscious mind will work with an unconscious mind will listen to the messages coming through the subconscious, all the stuff we spoke about in the beginning, will create a very insightful deep connection that will enable you to drive the correct kind of energy through your brain to break down the toxic thoughts toxic tree doesn't disappear, but you find the root cause this would be the root the source of the issue. The tree trunk is how you process the branches out showing up in real life in terms of emotions, and behaviours and, and perspectives and that kind of thing. So when we grab those emotions, behaviours and perspectives and read through through gathering awareness of them, and we start tracking back and reflecting on them, and you start moving down to the roots level, and finding the source and instinctively this has happened, I can't change what someone did to me has happened. But what can I do to change them to make this livable to give peace in my life to be able to move forward? What are the things what help do I need you then we can this energy, energy is never lost, this is full of energy, it's never lost, it gets transferred. So as we heal the roots, in the children's book, I talk about giving, literally taking plant food and finding the sick roots and putting plant food on the sick root so that you can get this this part to shrink and get this part new, healthy, broad, or tree trunks and branches to grow. So eventually this part of the cart is getting smaller and smaller, this part takes over. So I remember I was once bullied or teased or abused or had a terrible relationship or whatever it was, or collectively, just too many things going on in your life. You remember all of that. But here's now what you have wired in as your new way of functioning. So when you triggered, this is what will come out. And you'll still remember this, but this is what will then be how you show up, there'll be a shift. And that process is done through a very organised systematic mind driven neuroplasticity process. And that's what I spent 38 years researching and still researching and doing developing theories and clinical application. And as I sit still in current studies writing up in science journals and that kind of thing, how do we find the signals, deconstructing reconstructing, and the neurosarcoidosis collective body of knowledge that I've put together as a simple five step process, within which you can put all the great now that you can use affirmations, but you use them at Step five, not at step one, you use an affirmation at step one, it won't work, it won't, it'll just be a bandaid on the wound, you can use. You know, there's some great CBT techniques out there, like visualisation, and, you know, and different ways. But if you use them in any of the instead one through four, they won't work. But if you do steps one through four new CBT techniques and step five, that's going to work for you. You we've all got great things if we've worked out in our lives, or that people have told us that we apply a great statement or a great way of you know, like I read something in the news today about a principle that is that is we kind of in the exact name of it, but it's a Chinese sort of philosophy of going with the flow kind of idea. So this is a beautiful principle to To wire in, but if you just go with the flow, instead, one, you haven't processed the issue, you've got to first deconstruct this thing. And then the go with the flow idea, which is brilliant, would be grateful to step five, or six using step four and five. So in other words, what I'm saying is I haven't developed the answer to life, I have just simply created a system, I'd never planned it, no one should ever try and claim something like that. What I have created is a system that aligns with the psycho neurobiology of how we as humans function. And if you've put things, whatever you want to do, just put it into that order, and into the timeframe that I have researched, so intensively. And other scientists have I mean, this is based on science that also really exists, because you're always new science always comes out of out of existing science, and then you take it further, you are then being given the tools where you can rewire your brain and optimise your functioning, you know, both the good stuff, detox the bad stuff, and you know, be a very well balanced, functioning human being that allows yourself to be messy, allows yourself to be depressed and anxious and frustrated, and but to see ways to balance okay, my balance is going off, I need to do a little bit of work. That makes sense.

Isn't it interesting, because the opposite anxiety, I think it was the one that one of the doctors have said, you know, it's the flip side of the same coin as depression. And I definitely did find that the anxiety came alongside. But it's interesting, because when you stop kind of trying to push it away and acceptable, maybe on some level, that anxiety, as you said, here to serve me and point things out, you can dissipate so much more quickly. Because you're not resisting it,

though, because anxiety in itself, if you think of it. Diabetes makes sense. It's something wrong, that diabetes type type one, there's something wrong with the pancreas. That makes sense. But when you say, anxiety disorder, what does it mean? It's what we call a tautology, because you'll say I feel anxious. And I'm having these thoughts of anxiety, and I'm worrying a lot and I feel on edge. So you'll be a couple of disparate broad descriptions, but it's still not detailed. It's just a list of descriptions, then you'll get told, Oh, you have an anxiety disorder. And then you're sipping, why do I have an anxiety disorder? Or because you have those symptoms? Or why do I have those symptoms? Because you've got an anxiety disorder? Can you see you're going in circles,

yes, a virtual circle, you can't get out of it, you're in

India, and is it otology, you can't say the cause is also the symptom. And the symptoms are the cause, also to say that your brain caused it is also the wrong way around because we don't even have evidence of that. So the science that the so called your can make a bipolar is a chemical imbalance or depression is a chemical imbalance. It never was a theory it was a theory it was never proved. And in fact, meta analyses have been done. And there was a paper published in the UK University College London last year that had, I think, 20 million plus hits, which is huge for one of the, it's in the top, most read journal articles in the past 75 years or something like that, some some statistic, huge statistic like that, which shows had caught the public's attention. And the reason why is because they actually showed, Hey, we gotta stop telling people that depression is an IT and it's a chemical imbalance. And that if you just give someone a me a drug, then that's going to fix it. So an antidepressant is seen as this medicine that's fixing it, and we started talking about this earlier, it's not the correct way of saying it, that that antidepressant is not restoring chemicals that are missing. It's simply numbing the brain so that for a moment in time, you don't feel so overwhelmed by all your emotions. But if you keep numbing your brain, you don't resolve the problem, you just kind of get worse, and you're going to get damage to your brain. So you don't want to use it long term, you want to, you know, withdraw very carefully and very slowly, don't just stop your drugs with that, like you've then you wean yourself off, because at some point, you have to actually deal with the issue. Those drugs aren't fixing the issues, not the chemical imbalance, they may be some chemical change, because it's in the mind works for the brain, and it's disruptive and so on. But that's not what's going to fix it. So therefore, it's not an antidepressant. It's not a medication fixing a chemical imbalance, like insulin is fixing a damage to the to the pancreas, it would it would an antidepressant is doing is it's actually got nothing to do with the issue. It's actually just simply, it's like it's a drug, not a medication. It's a drug that has a psychoactive effect. So it's changing the way that the brain functions. So you don't feel the impact of your life story as badly for time. But that doesn't help because it has side effects. And then people get total diseases getting worse and they get all the wrong languaging and then you labelled with are caught up with this disease and I'm getting worse nothing hopes not going to be on medication the rest of my life and it's dangerous if I go off, it's dangerous if you stay on it, because you never deal with stuff. And then just during the week as you said you got they wanted to give you an anti psychotic but it helps what ends up happening is because of the medication, doing things to your brain and because of the medication not helping you to process your stuff. You've got have now double trouble, you've got to deal with the change in your brain. And you've got to deal with the fact that you haven't dealt with your stuff yet. So of course, you're going to feel worse, that's not your disease getting worse. That's the treatment that was wrong. It needs to be just for an acute moment for a short period of time, allow you to get to space and then work through that stuff, therapy, using my system, my system plus therapy, whatever you whatever works for you, but you need to work through the stuff you've got to embrace process and reconceptualize. And that way, you then get empowered and get control again, as opposed to them telling you, hey, this is the level this is the drug, it's all been disproved. But

when I saw that, and it's crazy how they hand it out, and yeah, having had personal experience, I think it was that, for me was very disempowering. And I think had I not been such a strong person, and I didn't have the right therapy alongside it, which I'm very, very grateful for, because that therapist allowed me to rethink my thoughts. And then I achieved what you what you're describing there, eventually, the medication will make you feel numb, because it's blunting depressive experiences. But it's also blunting the highs. And that's when I realised, but I think, you know, one thing I know, and I wouldn't encourage I'm not obviously in a position, say to anyone come off medication. But one thing that happens as you titrate down, is you will, or certainly I did experience those bipolar episodes, that depression, all of that comes back, because you're getting kind of withdrawals. And I think that care for people are not well understood. So to be so it took it took many, many months to kind of come off that.

I'm so glad that you brought that up, because and I have got an interview gentleman, Crieff and Mark Horowitz and various different people that are experts in this fact, the Royal College of Psychiatrists has a whole protocol for titrating off and it's that follows a hyperbolic curve. So you actually go listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, smaller amounts, which I'm sure you've done. So you can't just stop. Because the reason you get worse side effects is because your brain physically has changed. And so you've got you're dealing with this physical reaction. And that's in withdrawal, it's taken years to, to get the NIC NICE guidelines to actually even acknowledge that withdrawal exists. And so many doctors that don't even acknowledge that when you come off an antidepressant or come off an anti psychotic or even a stimulant to anti anxiety meds, there is a withdrawal process. And that process needs to be guided by you need the support of a medical doctor who understands so they can do, what's your blood pressure and check all the different vital signs, it's really important that you have therapy alongside that, that you don't just do it because it's you know, it does change your brain and that you have a plan in place for how you're going to deal with now you're going to have all this stuff being revealed. And as you said, it doesn't just plant loads of plants the highest you change as a person. And the other thing is, is that that's not spoken about some is the antidepressant, long term use and doesn't happen to everyone. But it happens to enough people for it to be a problem. But they get numbing of the genitalia. So the sexual response becomes very, very damaged. And hopefully over time that can heal, I'm of the school of thought, because I'd work in the field of neuroplasticity, that your brain can always heal, your body can always heal just may take time. But the fact is that people insert having problems with sexual problems. And that in itself can be a whole relationship issue. Part of our existence and you know, so those are things that people aren't told about. And it can create things like peripheral nerve damage. So you get various different you know, you get changes in how your body feels. And people need to be told these things. And if they go into them with the eyes open and understand, you know, maybe a short period of time and then you're going to have to do withdrawal protocol. If you're going with that view, then you've got control, then you're prepared. And then you can manage the situation. But most people aren't getting told that like you pointed out yourself. And then kids are getting put on these meds. They're not safe for adults. They're definitely not safe for children. There's no safe. There's no studies showing that they say for children are dangerous. And I mean they're giving children as in the States as young as two they diagnosed with paediatric bipolar depression, it's a joke. It's not, you know, ways that you because

frightening actually, right now, it's another when you look at antidepressant medication. Obviously there is that kind of sexual side effect, you said that it can be damaging, with antidepressants with antipsychotics is there. Obviously it's changing us I think you were saying the structure of the brain? Can this cause long term problems to the brain? Like if you if you don't try to sort of go through the process of therapy to change your belief systems and things and go through your process? What effect do they have on the structure of the brain long term? If people are thinking maybe it's time to consider making a change?

It's a really good question. And it's, it's scary. The answer is going to be scary but also hopeful. Yes, it does change your brain it changes the structure changes the, between the neurons neurons kind of look like trees. They connect with other neurons and that's this the synapses where they connect and the This little doorways on where they there's like a little pool of water where they get the signups and then this little doorways on either side of way to two neurons connect. And there's those little doors allow things, the different chemicals in and out. And those chemicals carry messengers, messages through through the brain. And that's not the only way information travels, it also travels in a quantum way as well in fields. But what happens is those doorways change structure, and they it gets in, that's not good. When they change structure, then the chemical balance goes off. And then neurotransmitters don't, you know, they what naturally happens in the bodies if you putting in extra chemicals, like serotonin that are chemically basically messes with the serotonin balance, and then it messes with dopamine. And it messes with all the other chemicals because nothing works in isolation, think of the brain and the body, not as a machine that is one part broken, you can take it out and put it back in the air conditioner breaks or something, it doesn't work like that with a brain, every single thing is connected to every single other thing. So every chemicals connected, every structure is connected to the entire biochemistry is connected to our structural and systems of our brain and our body, you disrupt one part, the whole lot suffers. And that kind of thing is what's happening in the brain and the body. And the more you honour it, the more damage occurs, unfortunately, now when you titrate off very carefully, your brain is starting to heal. The reason we people experience withdrawal is because of the fact that the structure of the brain has been changed in this way antibodies, and therefore when you stop, the brain is going to adjust. And because of the nature of the adjustment, you can feel more depressed and more anxious. And a lot of people, if they don't manage or they get too many suicidal ideation, even a lot of year, they will go a lot of attempts suicide attempts are made when people withdraw incorrectly. And that's why it's so important that you have in your withdrawal plan that you have people that you can text if you have suicidal, or that you can connect with them, when you have the suicidal ideation. If you have a suicidal plan, you need to feel comfortable to be able to talk about that, because there's a good chance that will come up. And you

must be rushed, right, because you made the point that many doctors almost like don't see that you need to titrate off i i So I remember at the time, my psychiatrist was not in favour of me doing it had a very understanding GP who said we'll do this together only once, right and see. And he was very helpful. But actually, I was still left to kind of figure out the dose because the symptoms were so strong, I had to go a lot more slowly for anyone listening who maybe is trying to transition or I had to go way more slowly than they were advising. And even when I got down to the I mean, it was difficult because there was obviously an anti psychotic and antidepressant. So the first thing I did was to come off the anti psychotic and just completely come off that first. And then look at the antidepressant and the that that whole process took months and I had to have an awareness like you were saying, if you bring awareness to the issue of this is the medication withdrawal is not me. It's not I am not that withdrawal. I had to kind of tell myself, I had to go so so slowly. And definitely like what you were saying there. You know, my husband was a big part of that process supporting me because it's hard, right? And you do need someone I think right by your side, because as you say those suicidal thoughts and everything you have before is coming right back. They can fast.

No, it is really bad. I mean, I've spoken to so many of my patients when I was still practising, I would work with doctors, because I'm not a medical doctor. And I'm my I'm trained in the mind. And so I'd work with medical doctors to help people with coming up with withdrawal. And but just that, you know that and then also over the years, I have emails from people and 1000s of people contact us. And the the important thing is couple of couple of things you've said there I want to underscore is that coming up collectively, from my own experience working with people, and I've never been on medications, Mother drugs myself, but I've had my own experience within my practice. And then over the years, reaching the people through the platform, we have an interest working with professionals, is that and research that's done is that it's unique to each person that time, the slower it's a hyperbolic curve. So it's really you got to go very, very slowly to titrate your conscious over half today, half tomorrow. It's really there's a whole formula that is worked out and the time is definitely different for every person. You're in that you guys are you I don't know your audience probably reaches global audience. But here the UK is much easier to find. Support the University College London's doing a lot of work. And the Royal College of Psychiatrists even though they still push meds does have as I mentioned earlier, a whole website, a whole link on the website. You can just Google Royal College of Psychiatrists drug withdrawal, and there's a whole protocol these people that you can contact, vital that you have a mind management process in place and I love how you said you know, when you have the drawer, this is a signal this is not who you are you showing up like this because of the withdrawal process and that applies to you anything if you are in, let's let's move drugs aside for a moment how you show up today, because it is because of what you're going through. Either something news happened today and you react to that, well, there's a, there's a whole lot of different sequences of things that have created this pattern. But who you are, is not the same as how you showing up. How you showing up is because of and we need to do the work to find that because of the drugs don't do that. You do that. And so it's very important that when you are all of us as humans, not just those diagnosed with mental health, everyone battles with a mental health. And it's so normal to not when I talk about statistics increasing, I always look at this and think and say, Hey, listen, it's not that only now there's some people that don't have problems. And it's some people that do everyone battles, but on a continuum, depending on where they're at in their life and what they're going through. And when we take that when you level, the playing fields like that, and we acknowledge that you could be at a 10, maybe versus a one, one being maybe not just the day to day struggle, team being a real major thing. All of us are on that scale, at some point in our life, every every day of our life. So we all need management. So the crisis in mental health, I do not believe is coming from an increase in these diseases, because they can't even explain what they don't explain. There's always on social media or it's COVID. Or they're always looking for an external thing that people are doing to themselves. And, and they also then look at Oh, the individual, people's brains are not working properly. So it's always removed. It's always the individual versus we need to look at society, we need look at socio economic properties, the pressure, the environment is affecting us child rearing. There's nothing wrong with social media. It's how we managing social media, these things wrong in society, how we manage managing these things. So we need to address as a global society, we need to address the big questions there is we have to look at a person's environment, and we have to have a plan in place for that. But while that's happening, which takes a long time, we as individuals have to know how to manage ourselves. So we've got to know how to recognise these, this is not who I am. But I'm showing up in a way that's definitely disrupting my day to day functioning or disrupting my child's day to day functioning. Therefore, what can I do now with myself because I live with myself 24/7 You're not single coach, Counsellor, therapist, 24/7, you living with yourself. And you've got to know how to manage yourself between those sessions, you know, and it maybe you don't even have access financially to going to therapists, it's very expensive. So that's why we tried to make mental health accessible and affordable, to help people to understand this basic principle from young and whatever age you're at. I mean, we have every age group, using the system and understanding giving people that hope that you know what I can empower myself to recognise a signal deconstruct and reconstruct, if that makes sense. And we can get off these meds because they're making me feel bad they aren't there is hope. You not only the only, that's the wrong way of saying it. All of us are betting as I keep saying some way and all of us need to learn to manage our mental health. And one last thing related to this is 5060 years ago, when the first medic drugs were discovered. He was the shift and then with the mid in the mid 90s. With the discovery of that MRI, it was a shift of the biomedical model and a blurring of lines occurred between people battling with life. And people having actual medical issues like a tumour or traumatic brain injury or something like that, or birth trauma or something. Now too blurry to one when I was trained, they were separated, and we treated them. If someone had a major trauma in their life, sexual abuse versus someone who had a TBI, you didn't treat them in the same way traumatic brain injury, even though they're both dealing with mental health crises and medical issues. Those are two totally different things. You continent they have a mental illness. Now both of those would be categorised as having mental illnesses and get given a drug for mental illness. That's crazy. Those drugs, traumatic brain injury, you've already got them stupid and you don't eat more damage. By getting an anti psychotic or an antidepressant, you need to rebuild your brain. So a lot of my early work went around how do we rebuild our brain if you've had a traumatic brain injury? And how do you manage it if you had extreme trauma? You know, and that's that shift that occurred got worse and worse. So the crisis we see now, we cannot go to stop blaming social media, and COVID Yes, those are things that happened. But all throughout history, things have happened World War one or two, crises are part of life. So it's not an changes part of life. So it's not the fact that it's not the change. It is how we've managed the change. So mind management is key. And what we have done is not managed them how we've not managed being a human in life very well over the last 40 years. And so now we have this massive crisis in mental health. So we've got to reintroduce mind management, and our children, Gen Alpha Gen Z are growing up in an environment where millennials and If you're self included, you've grown up in an era of mental health is a disease and drugs fix it. And that's unfortunate. The Boomers which is my age and beyond, we saw it started the but there was okay this life. And then this this illness that happens mental health has always been around but it was still seen as a separated. And so it's worse now because we don't be mates we're not we I'm not in that I don't work in that realm. I work I don't believe in the biomedical model, I've never worked in the biomedical model. But when we, the introduction of the biomedical model has, I believe, taken away mind management, and they fall if you don't manage anything properly change social media, etc. Before we land up with a crisis, and when our kids are growing up being told, if you have any emotion that makes you feel sad, and you have it more than once or a few times, there's something wrong with you. Last thing I'll say, and I keep saying last thing, but they do surveys, and they did some surveys recently in schools in the UK and in the United States, saying that to look at is mental health screening, helping and it's making things worse, it's making adolescents feel worse about themselves because now they feel crazy on top of it. So the questions and the questions are so biassed, biassed that they kind of scared to ask to answer them because they're going to get categorised. And they're going to be seen as different. So it's created more of a stigma and less of the stigma.

Scary and the self harming and doing I mean, it's frightening. It's frightening, just when you see some people, some some children who have literally cuts all the way down their arms, you know, from the top of their shoulder all the way through, just scored their bodies and men. And yeah, it's heartbreaking.

It's heartbreaking that energy never gets lost. So if you've got a crisis in your life and social media certainly has accelerated our ability to see other people's lives that can get bullied more bullying now goes home with you doesn't stop when you leave school, goes to bed with you're not on your cell phone. So yes, that that if we don't help our kids manage that you've got this energy building up and his pain in you. And if you don't know how to talk about it, you know that energy is transferred into cutting or suicide or, you know, behavioural issues, you know that, that kind of thing. So it's got to go somewhere that energy, so it goes in the wrong direction. So I'm saying, Okay, let's give these kids a space, let's give adults a space. It's allow ourselves to be messy, and allow ourselves to understand that humanity is messy. And let's look at all give ourselves a way and tools to be able to process and not just random tools. And over the place. Everyone talks about meditation and breathing is all great. But if you don't use them in the right sequence that can make you worse. I mean, people don't talk about this. Meditation, if it's done incorrectly will make you worse. Because it brings it's like a plane, think of it like this, a plane takes off, the pilot first checks everything and the copilot, and engineers, and then they take off. That's an awareness that's created. That's like meditation and breathing, and whatever. But if you now don't know how to fly the plane that will crash. So if you just meditate and become aware of stuff and just start naming your emotions, but you don't know what to do with them, you'll crash. And that's what's happening. If you just work on mindfulness and awareness and meditation and breathing, it's going to help you in the moment, but now all the stuff that's come up now what I do that so the research is showing that those alone aren't enough, you've got to go beyond those. And that's what my research falls in that category. I believe in all of those meditation, breathing mindfulness, all of it. It's in my work. It's in my my app, my neuro psycho app in the new book, but it's it's a brain preparation phase, you prepare the brain you the copilot, you check all the things that are in place you with a pilot, you do the preparation before, then you take off then you fly the plane, then you land the plane so you don't crash. So the neuro cycle helps you do all of that prepare, take off fly and land. And if you don't do that cycle, in the right time sequence, people will get stuck and people will crash and that's what's happening.

That is happening. I'm so grateful for your work. I know that you are short on time you have to go I could probably talk to you for a lot longer but I'm really grateful for you coming on and sharing all of this. The new book is out obviously for children I think it helps both parents and children you have a whole suite of books. Please share Dr. Caroline where can people find more? That's the book how to help your child you know it's brilliant I highly recommend people going by it we've got

the we've got a colouring book as well that goes across a disappearing thing doesn't work properly. Here we go. Amazing. And is a toy. Probably the best place is to go to my my Instagram page. So all my social media, Dr. Caroline leaf and from there you can get everything you can find your doctor leaf.com Is my webpage books are sold, books available wherever books are sold. So amazing. Thank you we

will we will link to all of that and just thank you so much for the work that you're doing and if just helping more people as you say take off fly and land that plane on a daily basis or a different society we

could all be living for you with you. Thank you so much for sharing this message and what you do.

Thank you. Thanks for coming. If you enjoy this podcast visit female bio hacker.com and be part of a special community of women looking to optimise their mind, body and spirit. If you're tired of sifting through countless websites and books to find the answers to your questions about nutrition, fitness hormones, mindset, spirituality, and biohacking, the search is over. I've done the research for you and every week we go live with in depth masterclasses q&a calls and monthly challenges to help you transform your life. And when you join the collective you'll have access to a wealth of information, including deep dive master classes and biohacking toolkits on our members favourites like metabolic flexibility, gut health, stress and resiliency and stepping into your most empowered self. Get Access and be coached by me and my team and level up your health, career and life all for less than $1 a day. Go to female bio hacker.com or click the link below to get started. And I'll see you on the inside