A Pep Talk for 2022: Trends + Advice for Every Nonprofit in the New Year - Katie Appold

7:56PM Dec 13, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Katie Appold

Keywords:

nonprofit

people

organization

community

katie

hear

sector

mission

donors

year

good

talk

led

growing

neon

serve

moving

love

boundaries

giving

Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Hey, Becky, welcome, everybody.

Glad you're here. We're going to Michigan today.

Are you? No, no, I mean, okay. It's no secret. We love nonprofits, right? I mean, we spent our career in IT, we've dedicated our kind of next step in life to it. But today, we're talking to a nonprofit that exists for nonprofits. So these are so our people, were delighted to talk to Katie Apple, today, she is the executive director of do more good. You may know them as the Nonprofit Hub, and the cause camp, which is a really wonderful event that serves our industry. But Katie's nonprofit career, it spans a variety of different leadership roles. She's been in the human service sector, she's led foundations. And even in publishing related nonprofits, I may have a little bit about do you want to hear about that, but in her roles, you know, she has developed new programs related to free health care, and affordable and accessible housing and literacy programs. And so she just just really had a lot of, you know, real life lived experience, so she can really love and serve the sector really well. So that's really prepared her for her role today, where she leads do more good, which is the parent organization of Nonprofit Hub and cause camp, which collectively serves get ready for this more than 50,000 nonprofits throughout North America. So huge mission, lots of shared values between us. And so Katie, we're so delighted to have you on the show today. Thanks for being here.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm a big fan. So this is exciting to be in an interview with you guys,

was a huge honor for us. So thank you, you know, we'd love to hear more of your story, you know, our winding paths, I think we have a lot of similarities, because we fell in love with the sector by doing the actual work too. And just wanting to provide resources as a result of that where you kind of give us you know, a story of your bio, what led you to your role today? And yeah, looking forward to it, or

so I actually started in the for profit sector, I worked for a business consulting firm, I actually worked for my husband's firm, so they didn't have a no dating policy.

seemed to work out well, good for you.

I know, I know. It's a great takeaway. But they did a lot of consulting for nonprofit organizations. And I was their marketing director and was often assigned to work with nonprofits. And I left to go on maternity leave. And I told my husband, I'm like, you know, the only thing I want to go back to is this portion of my work where I'm talking to these nonprofits. And we both kind of thought like, maybe that's maybe that's where I should focus in. So I went on maternity leave, I didn't return I actually went to grad school and pursued my Master's of nonprofit leadership. Because I had no experience and I thought, well, maybe, you know, maybe a credential will help me get my foot in the door. And it did, I I went to serve in the marketing department of a global nonprofit publisher. And it was, it was interesting to start at that level. I don't think that is necessarily representative of nonprofit work in general. I mean, they had a marketing department, money for lunches out and stuff we dream about. It still helps me to help me get my foot in the door. And if you're familiar, I can actually share which one it was our daily bread, which is a pretty well known movement, the little devotional, but one of the things I oversaw was trade sales. So I did some traveling related to that, and I loved the job. I loved the work. But again, the travel. We were touring Ingram, which is a distribution hub, like for Amazon, in Tennessee, and I was sweating, and I was eight months pregnant. And this man comes up to me and he puts his hand on my shoulder, and he's like, You should not be here. And I mean, my gut reaction was like, Get your hand off my shoulder, but he was right. I was I was way too pregnant to be traveling. And I kind of knew at that point that that was only going to increase and I now had two children. Well, I call it divine timing. But I went home and the next week, a local nonprofit in my area, person connected to their board reached out and said, you know, their their president is resigning and they're looking for a new executive director. I think you'd be really good at this. And that was my kind of foray into nonprofit leadership. I, I don't know. You know, my, my background wasn't really relevant, but I must I said the right things in the interview, I don't even recall the interview, but I got the job. And that was the one that I grew 300%. So after that, I was able to lead a Local Schools Foundation. And ultimately, you know, for those who don't believe in the power of LinkedIn, I will tell you that I came to be the leader of do more good, because Bill McKendree, the co founder of dumar, good saw my profile on LinkedIn, and said, Hey, we should work together. And a coffee chat later, we were forming the plans to launch to market as a nonprofit. So get those profiles tuned up.

Well, we are a big evangelist of education and education for everyone. And I love that you actually use that as a launching pad to get you to where you are, in everybody's path. And nonprofit is just so winding and interesting. And I just think that in your periphery of where you are right now, you just must see and learn so much about what is happening in the now. And we would just love like, as we're moving into the new year, we would just love to know, like, what are you reflecting on right now? And then in the nonprofit sector? What are you paying attention to? We would love for you to kind of just talk about the current state of nonprofit.

So the thing that I can't the thing that I stop on every time I'm flipping through LinkedIn, the thing that's like always, in the back of my mind lately, is this great resignation. You know, I worry about it a little bit for the nonprofit sector because we toil we are underpaid. And for so long, the sector has kind of had this reputation of overworking. You know, eds, were synonymous with long hours and wearing many hats. And, you know, sacrifice, I think sacrifice is pretty much synonymous with cause work sometimes. And so I'm watching it, because I want to see if we step away, or if this is more an impetus to just have better boundaries, are we going to make the changes necessary in the sector so that we keep our people and we keep them engaged and working at 100%? Not 150%.

Yeah. And it really is incumbent upon us right now, to do a really hard self reflection. And we believe this is a time to be bold. So I love that you bring that up. And I just guess I'm saying preach, because we agree with the exact same thing.

Absolutely. And we have the best sales pitch for recruitment. So I mean, that's one thing, if we can get these boundaries figured out, who doesn't want to work at something that impacts others in a life changing way, who doesn't want to work for good, you can have fun at your job. You can like the hours you can like the benefits. But ultimately, if as all you're doing is growing somebody else's bottom line, you don't have that deep satisfaction you get when you work for a cause you believe in? So I don't I don't worry about the sector in terms of attracting top talent. I don't think that'll ever be an issue for us. I do worry about us getting it figured out that it's not cool to work 14 hours a day. Yeah, nobody, nobody wins. Yeah,

no matter what you're doing, and we

have to sit down for that. I mean, we had a whole entire Mental Health Week. And it's like, we've got to talk about how not only are we taking care of our people as leaders, but how are we taking care of ourselves, and leaders, specifically, you're setting the tone for how your organization is going to pour into the mission. And if you're doing, you know, 90 hours a week, that's the tone that we don't want to set moving forward. So I really love this conversation about doing a hard reset. And really taking a step back in the new year to repower ourselves.

Ditto, ditto, I am fully on board with that it's interesting, you bring up the mental health piece because I just met with someone this morning and they were talking about small team, they can't afford medical benefits for their their organization. But what they can afford is a small segment of a plan just to provide for mental health benefits. So even though they can do the whole thing, you know, dental, vision, whatever they see that is so important that they're going to break it out and do whatever they can as an incremental step. And when they shared it, I thought you know what, that's a sign of the times. And that that is an innovative approach in progress. I

think it shows like, evolved leadership that just being transparent because it's like they're buying, I don't know, equity with their staff with just being real about where they're at, too. Yeah, well, I mean, K your, you know, see to the house allows you to just kind of have your pulse and have so many relationships with people doing the work and leaders throughout the industry. You know, what is some guidance that you're giving for listeners that maybe you're looking at this new year? We're hoping it's going to be I guess, we're step fully into the new normal, but what is 2022 gonna look like? What are what's some advice for moving into the new year are nonprofit leaders and really everybody,

I have a bit of advice. And it's kind of cheesy, it's really cheesy. But it is my like, you know how people pick a word for the year. This is kind of like my phrase for the year. And it's not it's not original to me, I stole it from our one of our web developers who says it in just about every meeting, but and it makes me cringe every time he says it. But the line is, is the juice worth the squeeze? And that is my question. With every single program, every single meeting, every single thing I'm going to stress about, is the juice worth the squeeze? Is what I'm going to get out of this worth what I'm going to put into it. And I think that is, that's my advice for the sector, because I don't think I'm alone in that. How many things are we doing that cause us stress that take hours that take bandwidth that takes sleep away from us? And ultimately, they yield very little. It's an interesting filter to run your programs through even running your your board development practices, you know, everything you're doing, ultimately, is it worth it?

Well, I think this that's real timely for right now. I mean, this is kind of the end of the year, people are starting to wind down, obviously, we're finishing our year end appeals. But it is a good time to just take stock and really look around because nobody's got time for the things that really aren't connected to impact or meaningfully moving. And maybe that's how we carve out the time, you know, so we're not working 14 hours, days in the new year. So I love that advice. Yeah.

And it's not to stop doing really important work. It's to free up more time and resources for the really important work that you'll see impact. So it's good focus, focus phrase.

Yeah. And I think maybe even a little pro tip here would be like audit, where is your time spent. And if we're spending so much time in one particular area that's not yielding something that is a core component of our strategic plan, or KPIs or something, or if it's just not moving the needle, then that's a, you know, kind of a little trigger to us that we need to step back and think about, okay, how can I really utilize my time? Well, how can I be more efficient? Are there systems I need to set up or structures that is going to help me move more quickly, we think automations are really important in this way, and even just planning a content calendar. So that might be a really quick exercise where you're spending time in the place that it's most meaningful. But, Katie, I have a question for you. Because anytime that we hear a rumor that someone led an organization and increase their revenue by 300%, we're going to need to know that story. Walk us through what that process look like how we're wondering how nonprofits can implement similar practices to scale their mission next year,

you know, I wish this was like, Oh, I did this to the website or no, it was literally that we built a website. I love

it. I love it. That is it actually, yeah, tell us a story.

I worked for a Uber traditional. I'm just gonna say a behind the times organization that had grown, grown with some great man demand fundraising practices, but had not really gone into the digital scape and they had not really developed much beyond you know, personal donor asks and marketing through a print newsletter. So it was you know, I'd love to say it was my giftedness it was my talent. No, it's just good timing. It was you know, my first ad roll and I came in hot, I was ready to make changes and you know, shake things up a bit. And so very small marketing, branding and fundraising changes yielded a pretty big impact. And you know, nowadays organizations know better they all they all try at least to have a great website, but it just shows you how fundamental those core pieces are. Are you on social media? Does your website function and is it easy to get to an easy to use? Are you easily found on the internet? You know, those types of things are so foundational that if you're looking for an EDI role and you find a nonprofit that doesn't have them go there, you'll get 300% growth probably.

There's your process. You're being very humble. I know there was probably more to that but I do love because we just in our mutual friend Dana Snyder would teach us the same thing it's it's about our storefront it's about making that house seem inviting and giving people a path to follow. So making

it human making it feel like a living breathing soul, nonprofit in the digital space. needs to feel like a person is actually behind they're not a robot, not a bot. You know, nothing behind it. We have to figure out how to give these storefronts to your point John a soul How do they seem human and approachable? How are we representing the beneficiaries in a dignified way? And how are we telling their story? So ethically, I just really do think that there's something to the fact that when you create accessibility, to come in and come over and hear your messages and be connected, the friction is gone. And the ease of use is so fantastic. And so I think we all can think of a couple of nonprofits we know that are kind of behind the time. So also, recognizing that it's funny,

because they'll McKendry, so the co founder of Doomer, good, he owns a marketing agency, and he would always tell me that there's one phrase that is always heard in every new meeting, or new client meeting with a nonprofit. And the phrase is, we're the best kept and you guys can probably

best kept secret.

And he would, you would scold them, like you can't carry that as a badge of honor. That's, you know, nonprofits often tout it would like it's humility, or it's frugality that they're not investing well, if you're the best kept secret, you are not doing your job, because you are not reaching those who want to support your mission, and those who need your mission. It's shifting that perspective.

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You know, y'all at nonprofit have provided a lot of marketing resources and teach through that as well. So I know you just have a lot of advice that you love to share with organizations. And know you're a big proponent of clarifying message could you give us some you know, tips for doing that. I think it's really key if you're either updating your website or just getting clear for your end appeals,

sir, you can't serve an appeal to everyone. That's like my number one tip, I think we are so into the train of thought of gathering as much traffic as much attention as many donors as possible that we lose focus on our core audience. So who are the people who are going to be most in tune with what we're doing, they're going to have the most patronage to our to our mission, because that that's our target audience. I once had a board member, not for the organization I'm with currently but a different organization. And they would always say Who wouldn't want to support what we do. And you know what, given given infinite amounts of wealth, and time, and energy and interest, sure, everybody would probably want to support what we're doing. But we're competing with the world. We're not competing just with other nonprofits, we're competing with Nike and Apple and iTunes and Netflix. So we need to find those people that are most likely to become passionate supporters of what we're doing, and we need to speak to them. And that needs to be our message. I agree

with that. And I just think that his messages can be very simple. And I don't think we talk enough to your point about segmentation of audiences. I mean, I think the the need to blast messages to everyone is such a tactic of the past. Because if we're truly going to know our people, and we're going to understand what their desires are, because they're going to be unique desires, the way that they're consuming information from us is going to be different, the way they want to make gifts is different the way they want to be stewarded or hear our stories, and you have to have a great sense of who they are. And so I want to talk a little bit about just like there's there's a lot of noise in the space right now. And there's a lot of distraction, even on digital and I don't mean that just because everybody's online, I mean, just the state of the world right now. There is a lot of noise and passionate feelings going on and all of our digital channels. So how to nonprofits stand out and use sort of new technology to grow their missions digitally. What would be your recommendations Katie?

So when you Have a loyal audience who gets used to your voice, they trust your voice. So creating that trust is is paramount, you can break through, when you're trying to talk to everybody, you contribute to the noise. And that's when you get your unsubscribes. That's when your attendance goes down at events. So really honing in. And there's so many tools out right now. I mean, any nonprofit that has not pursued their Google Ad Grant, I would highly encourage you to do that. You know, HubSpot has an amazing persona creator totally free, I would encourage you to use that to kind of figure out who your segments are, and define them. And then, you know, if you're not working with a CRM, if you're not optimizing what people are seeing based on who they are, I would, you know, and so many say we can't afford it or my board want to prove that you are not actually serving your audience if you are not giving them what they are coming to you for. So think of it as a stewardship expense.

Yeah, I mean, I think all of these things that you're sharing are fundamental to just getting on the right page for the new year, because it really demands it. I mean, if we're going to step into this new world, we have to get comfortable with the technology that's so widely available and accessible now, and it's really not as scary as it probably sounds. If you're not plugged into all these things. Okay, Katie, something that we love about you and the different resources you've curated, is that y'all are passionate about community. I mean, you love convening people you love sharing your gifts of knowledge, what have you learned about community in your role here, and it could be from your past experience, or just now with Nonprofit Hub in the way that you convene people through cause camp,

we have learned so much through the pandemic. So and I'll go, I'll go way back. So when I lead local, regional nonprofits, I always participated in community groups, you know, whether it was an EDI roundtable, or maybe it was, like a BNI type a networking group. And I always realized benefit from it in terms of vetting decisions in terms of growing my own network. So I'm a huge believer in those, the pandemic happened. And also just, you know, my career grew. So these localized groups were no longer really applicable to what I was doing. And many nonprofits are in that, you know, spaces. Well, they don't serve one community, they serve a state or region or a global need. And when we can't meet in person, we have to find a decent replacement. And I think, I think there's plenty of opportunities out there Nonprofit Hub is actually launching peer groups into 2022. We have the QAs network, which is a closed network, kind of like a Facebook group where people can go in and ask your question, share your idea and know that you're in with peers, and that they're going to try to help you because they feel your pain. We're all we're all in the same, you know, space. I love the Facebook groups. I'm I'm not super active on Facebook. But one thing I do is go check out like Ed roundtable and all those types of groups. You have to find community because we can't talk to our boards about everything. Definitely can't talk to our teams about everything just because of confidentiality and whatnot. So having a trusted group that you can bring your issues to. I mean, going back to mental health that we touched on earlier, I again, pretty foundational need.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I just think everything's better in community, if you can kind of just check your ego, and your need for control at the door, and come in with just like, kind of a servant heart of just I'm here to learn. I'm here to share what I know, we really believe in sharing frameworks and sharing what what's been successful, because we want more people to test it, and we want more people to replicate it. So I love that Katie, I think that's great. And I'm so excited to hear you guys are bringing those peer groups out. I just think you must have such an interesting purview of the nonprofit sector from your perch, and I am just dying to know a story of philanthropy that has personally touched you whether that's in this position or growing up. What's your story, Katie?

I have a funny one. It's a funny one, but with with a little lesson in it. So I I led an organization that was a human service organization, but it had several different programs. 20 Something different programs that kind of met felt needs in the community. Why donor base? One donor in particular was somebody I really liked. But have you ever had those days where like, you're just busy, you're busy, you're stressed and don't want one more meeting one more thing added to your day? Well, this individual called The main office that I didn't work at the main office at that time, and said, I need to talk to Katie apples, and I need to talk to her right now. So they get through to me, and they're like, he wants to meet with you right now. And I'm like, mid sandwich to mouth. I mean, this is my first first break of the day, like, No, I'm not gonna do it. Boundaries, I'm not going to do out of you. This poor, the poor girl who was calling me, she's like, he's on his way to your office. And literally, like, I hang up with her. And he's, he's parked out front of my office. So obviously, I met with him and he drove me to a building that he was donating to our organization. And he was so excited about the gift about it. Finally, getting to the point that he could tell me that he'd known for a while but had been waiting for legal things to fall into place. That he couldn't contain his excitement, he had to, you know, show up and share it right then. It was such a wake up call. In terms of AI, it's important to have boundaries, you have to eat the sandwich, you have to, you know, not work 14 hours a day, but we never know what you know, what the donors perspective is and why they're doing some of the things they're doing. And the more you know, going back to community going back to keeping it personal getting to the soul, the more we get to know these individuals and why they're doing what they're doing. It gives helps us to have more grace, when we get into sticky situations, that also helps us appreciate the gifts that much more. I appreciated that building to I mean, a degree I can't even explain both for what it did for that community. But also I recognized what an amazing act of generosity and what it meant to this individual. And the fact that he let me share in his his moment, his excitement, it was huge.

And I think that's what draws us all to this sector. It's like those are the kind of moments that just are not comparable, you know, philanthropy has this super super power in that way.

Because it does, and I I mean, you talk about that as fuel. I think that reignited my passion and that organization for at least a year. I mean, it was a pivotal moment.

Okay, Katie, I mean, you've got so much wisdom, so much experience, you know, all of our episodes lead to a one good thing, something practical that you can leave us with today, maybe a piece of advice, or a good habit, what's your one good thing?

My one good thing is that we are weeks away from a brand new fresh start exiting, hopefully permanently, the pandemic year, and I guess just it's a time to reset. It's a time to you know, if you have if your juice hasn't been worth the time to to reevaluate that it's a time to pursue those those educational things you've wanted to do. I think most nonprofits get time off over the holidays. And I would encourage every nonprofit professional to use some of that just for yourself. I know it's about family. I know it's about togetherness, but whether it's four hours, eight hours, if you can take you know an entire 24 hours. And just really think through what what is your dream for 2022? And how will you reset to achieve that?

Excellent one sage advice?

Okay, Katie, you've given us so much today. We love this conversation. How can people connect with you? How can they connect with do more good, give us all of the connection points so they can track you down. And I know you're in LinkedIn. And that's a great place to come and get Katie's thought leadership too. So I'll just give a little plug for that as well.

That LinkedIn is really the only social network I participate in as a brand. We participate in all of them. Personally, I foundries nonprofit hub.org highly encourage you to check it out. Nearly everything on that website is free. And it is resource rich. If you're looking for any sort of template or guidance, you can probably find it there. And then cost camp check out cost camp, I will be there, both in person and virtually as well. Dana Snyder and a ton of other nonprofit pros. And you can learn more about that at cause that camp. We got clever with the URL

like I love. Your new camp was a name. I'm kind of like,

I don't even know how he did it. Yeah, amazing.

We believe education is for everyone. pouring into education is not only going to benefit you it's going to benefit your mission. Do not let this be the thing that you cut first out of your budget. Have it be the first thing you put in?

Yes, absolutely. You will be better for it. That is for sure.

Okay, Katie, thank you so much for being here. It's been an honor to meet you finally and just to have this conversation.

Oh, absolutely. Hey friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics? Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom