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Krista Dicks1h 4min

Krista Dicks

00:00

Hello radical massage therapist, and welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast. I'm your host, Krista, registered massage therapist and clinic owner in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Lucky for you, I am not the radical massage therapist, but you are. You're here because you want more from your career than burnout and back pain. You're chasing freedom, flexibility, financial success and fun, both in and outside of your work. My hope is that these episodes inspire you to build a life you love around a sustainable massage career. Today's guest is someone who really embodies that sustainability with a little edge. I'm joined by Susan Anderson RMT, who's right here in Ottawa, who practices with over 20 years of experience, Susan has worked in some of the city's top spas, and blends therapeutic and energy based modalities like Reiki into her treatments. But what she's really known for is her specialty, Bucha massage, yep, the intraoral kind that works from the inside of the face and out. It's a technique that might seem niche or even a little weird at first, but the results speak for themselves. Susan created the buccal massage master class to help RMTS develop deep, next level skills and confidence in this transformative modality, all from a supportive virtual space. And today we're talking all about why Bucha massage is way more than a trend, how it's helped her clients and her business, what therapists need to know to do it safely and confidently, and what it looks like to build a niche that's both radical and sustainable. Let's get into it with Susan from The Bucha lab. Susan Welcome to the radical massage therapist podcast. It's so great to have you right now we're in studio, which is amazing. We're both in Ottawa, so it's so wonderful to have you here in person. Thank you for having me. So I want to get one thing just out of the way, is the pronunciation of the topic that we're going to talk about. I've heard it pronounced a couple different ways. You're the expert in this area, and Richard, if I can get you to also see how this word is pronounced. If you don't mind, I'll give it my best shot. Can you see this word?

Speaker 1

02:17

Yes, I can. Bucha, that's how I pronounce it. Okay? It's actually, I googled the pronunciation, and it's actually pronounced buccal, okay, but that doesn't sound very good. So if I hear people pronouncing it Bucha or Bucha, Google says buccal.

Krista Dicks

02:38

Okay, yes, okay. I believe the the like dentists say buccal. Yeah, maybe that's where I've heard it from as

Speaker 1

02:45

well, exactly, and it also comes from that muscle, the buccinator. So buccal is the correct pronunciation.

Krista Dicks

02:54

Okay, so buccal is correct, but Bucha is what we're going to go with today. I Okay,

Speaker 1

03:00

I like it. I like it. And I know a lot of people pronounce it Bucha. So

Krista Dicks

03:04

okay, yeah, that's the piece of it. Okay. Regardless, we're going to be talking about a lot about intra oral massage, yes, and specifically a course that you have connected to intra oral massage for Bucha. Bucha, right? Massage, yes. So wonderful. So let's get into it. What first sparked your interest in Bucha massage, and how did you discover its benefits? Okay,

Speaker 1

03:26

so for me, it started about two years ago, and I was actually at a point where I was ready to leave massage therapy. I'd been a massage therapist for 23 years, a lot of aches and pains, and I didn't know how much longer I could do full time massage therapy, so I even thought about maybe I could go part time or, you know, have something to compliment it. And then my coworker told me about a training that she was thinking about taking the buccal massage. And it sounded so interesting, so I did some research to find where different trainings, where they were available, and I I decided on one training. But the problem for me, when I took the training was that it was marketed towards estheticians. I couldn't find a course that was specifically for massage therapists, so I took this course, and it was amazing, but I had to do a lot of research on my own to be able to incorporate it into treatments, and that's really how I started. It was something that was starting from not a great place, but then I found a really great solution for the because now I can see myself full time in massage therapy for who knows how long you know? But I just feel so grateful that I found it, and it's I, I'm getting about 25% right now of my bookings are all the Bucha massages. Okay, so the word is getting out there. It's amazing, yeah.

Krista Dicks

05:14

So what was your massage? Your journey, your journey into massage therapy, like, how did you discover that you wanted to be a massage therapist.

Speaker 1

05:22

Oh my gosh, that was so long ago, and I knew I was kind of dallying into different areas. I knew I wanted to be in healthcare and but I couldn't decide on, you know, maybe nursing or nutrition. And then I found out that in Ottawa, Algonquin was starting the massage therapy program. And there's, again, it's the same with the Bucha. Something just clicked, and I knew I had to be a massage therapist. It was the universe was telling me, girl, get on this, you know. And so went to Algonquin College, and for me, my passion is in the spa industry. I love the environments. I love the people that work in Spa environments. And so that's my that was my journey into massage therapy, into my career, going from Algonquin into massage Yeah,

Krista Dicks

06:23

I love, I love that you do. You're able to say, like you, I you love the spa industry, and you found your place in the spa industry as a registered massage

Speaker 1

06:33

therapist. Absolutely, yes, wonderful. Yeah, it, you know, it was a bit daunting, because when you're in massage therapy school, the emphasis is, you know, sports massage, more Clinical Massage. And that I was able to take into the massage, sorry, into the spa industry, which was great, but, and I tried working in clinics, but I always went back to the spa industry. It's just just an energy sometimes it's a little frantic, but I like that, so I couldn't get that in a calm clinic that is very functional. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

07:15

amazing. Good for you. So a lot of our MTS might already know, and we're all qualified, that we're allowed to do intra oral massage. So buccal massage is intra oral Right, right? But Bucha massage sounds like something different or even a little fancier. Can you break down what Bucha massage actually is, how it differs to traditional facial or intra oral work, and why it matters for both therapists and clients.

Speaker 1

07:44

Okay, so for me, the Bucha massage is an entire protocol of various techniques. The intraoral is the star on the plate, so to speak. But you have different techniques, like lymphatic drainage. You have myofascial release techniques, you have the intraoral techniques and the facial massage. It doesn't just focus on muscles of mastication. It focuses on also muscles of expression. Everything is connected, and that is something that I think I was missing when I learned intraoral massage in school. The entire focus was on the on the jaw, TMJ disorders, the muscles of mastication. But it, it really didn't include the muscles of expression, which there are so many, and they are, you know, underneath our muscles of mastication, we have to, we have to work on those as well. So that I felt it, I feel is different from what we learned in school. And I also feel like the lymphatic drainage is such an important part of doing the Bucha massage. You have anyone who has bruxism, where they're clenching their teeth, or they're grinding their teeth, is going to have inflammation and offering that lymphatic drainage that is such a bonus to do to doing the Bucha massage. So those are just a couple of things that are different than what we learned in school. Yeah, and what was the last part?

Krista Dicks

09:30

The last part, I mean, why does it matter for both therapists and clients?

Speaker 1

09:37

Well, I mean, I think that it matters for massage therapists, because I feel like it is a more complete treatment and you're addressing you can address headaches, you can address head forwards and posture. You can jaw TMJ dysfunction, so. So, you know that is, it's such a bonus, I feel like for massage therapists to be able to do it's a one hour protocol, as opposed to maybe spending 20 minutes working solely inside the mouth and doing some external work on the muscles of mastication. It's, I feel like it's a more rounded

Krista Dicks

10:20

protocol. Yeah, no, absolutely. It does make sense when you remind us of the muscles of expression. You know, some people, especially if they are in pain, or they've been, you know, clenching, or things are chronic for so long, exact, just completely shows up on their their face visibly. So there must just be this whole transformation. And like you said, you're treating the whole it's a more complete system, you know, where we were just treating muscles of mastication, you know, causing that muscle like that tension. But yeah, I think that's really neat. And

Speaker 1

10:53

for the clients, it's interesting, because, you know, throughout my career, I would offer clients the opportunity to do intra oral massage, and, you know, explain how it worked. And often they would say, Nah, I don't really want to do that. Okay, that's fine. The Bucha massage is completely different. My clients come in and the first thing they say is, I am so excited. I have been wanting to do this, and I'm so excited about it, and that just gives me chills, because when somebody somebody is looking forward to having that treatment, it's a completely different thing. I know that the Bucha massage is kind of a right now. The name of it is a bit trendy, and more people are finding out about it, but that enthusiasm to want to have it done that is amazing for massage therapist and for clients as

Krista Dicks

11:48

well, absolutely and know that the massage therapist that they already know and trust is now offering this when they have been seeing it out in social media and maybe Googling and You're not really sure who to go to, then yeah to how to know that you're doing it as a registered practitioner is can be more assuring? Where do you feel that they're getting there they're finding out about it to to then go, Oh my gosh. I'm so excited to try this.

Speaker 1

12:16

They're finding out on Instagram, on Tiktok, Facebook, but I would say mostly Instagram, they're finding out, and the videos that are being posted, they look so they look so relaxing. And in, you know, it's, it's, I find that it's getting people more enthusiastic about wanting to have it, and also they're online. They're googling the benefits of it themselves, so they are coming in with a bit of understanding of what it is that it's able to do and what they're going to experience. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

12:55

I think we're in a really great place when we're able to see what is being done, like visually, like when videos are out there of the process, so that clients do have that understanding coming in and they're not, they're not going in blind. I mean, massage therapy, especially like when you started, you know, people might not have known what to expect. And to this day, somebody coming in for a first massage still might not know, but thankfully, because of social media, now we have much more video coverage. Absolutely get an idea of what to expect before they come in. That's right, exactly. Yeah. Can you share a personal story or a client experience that made you realize the impact of Bucha massage

Speaker 1

13:40

in the very beginning, when I started doing the Bucha massage, I was more tentative, because I still, especially working inside the client's mouth, I was a little worried about hurting them. So, you know, I didn't really know quite what to expect. And I had clients that they would start to cry during the Bucha massage and or maybe start giggling out just out of nowhere. And it made me realize how powerful that these techniques were on the face and inside the mouth, because we hold so much stress and emotion in the muscles of not just the muscles of mastication, but in the muscles of expression. So for me, that just I was just amazed at how powerful it really is. And then when a client comes in for the Bucha massage. And when they leave and they just look lighter, there's, uh, their energy has shifted. To me that is huge. Yeah, yes, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Krista Dicks

14:53

And I've done um, craniosacral therapy, and that in the second piece of of. Of it, you do learn some intra oral work. And I was quite surprised. Didn't expect that people would have those emotional releases, giggles, like complete, like uncontrollable laughter, a little bit of tears. But, you know, it just, it was just something coming, coming out. And, yeah, it was really, really interesting.

Speaker 1

15:19

Exactly, I find it so interesting. Yeah, and that's another thing, is that when I went to I had to do a lot of research to find out why, because I didn't learn that in my training. So, you know, learning about how much we really hold in the jaw and the and the muscles of expression, helped me to understand better where the client, you know, it makes sense that they would have a bit of a release during the Bucha massage. Yeah, yeah.

Krista Dicks

15:57

What are the most common conditions or concerns that Bucha massage can help address.

Speaker 1

16:02

So 80 to 90% of my clients that are coming in, it's jaw pain and tension from grinding and clenching their teeth. So that is the number one and the second, headaches. And a lot of the clients don't realize that a lot of the beginning of the clenching and the headaches has to do with our our posture, our especially our head forward posture. So you know that I would say is 80 to 90% and then the rest is, have a lot of people that they come in and they say, I just want to try it. I saw, I saw it on Instagram, and I just think it's so cool, I want to try it. And they leave feeling so relaxed. That's another thing that I think surprised me, is how incredibly relaxing the treatment is. So yeah, those, those would be the breakdown of the clients that I

Krista Dicks

17:03

get. Yeah, I love I'm really excited for you to be doing this work, and we'll talk about your masterclass as well later on. But I when I started to hear about this Bucha massage and and these and these facial massage techniques coming out, I was like, hey, but we already like we're already a foot in the door, and nobody knows that we can, can do this exactly. And not only that, but they're paying a lot of money for an esthetician to do it. And this is not a it's not a covered therapy, but they're very willing to turn over that money to somebody that they're not going to be compensated for. That's right. So the fact that we can integrate this technique into our practice and have it compensated because there is a therapeutic benefit to it is wonderful. So I'm very excited for for your like, build of this and to introduce it to the community. Because I, I would, I was like, I would say it's the next thing for massage therapy, the next big thing. But like, it's, it's not like going to be like a trend like, I think this is something that that we definitely need in our practice, full time.

Speaker 1

18:12

I'm glad you said that, because I have had some pushback from some RMTS that feel that this is a trend and that we shouldn't be introducing this into our industry. That's their opinion. That's fine, but I don't see it as a trend. I think that this is really important. We are. We have our lifestyle where we're constantly on our phones with our head down, which is causing all of these problems and the and the bruxism affects so many of us, and the Bucha massage, it is so beneficial for bruxism and that, like I said, the headaches and head forward posture, so I don't see this As a passing trend. I think it's going to grow, and we're going to keep learning more, but the difference being that it is that one hour treatment that you don't want to break it down into 20 minutes, because you won't have the same results. It's one hour and it's a lot of work on the face, the entire face. So, you know it, I see it being here to stay, like the cupping, because I remember when the cupping started, and there was a lot of pushback against it, and now it's here to stay. I mean, it's so important to have that in your toolkit. So I feel like the Bucha massage is going to be the same,

Krista Dicks

19:45

yeah, and like you said, it's one piece of your toolkit. If you do learn it, and you're maybe don't feel like it's a right fit for your practice. I mean, you have it. So when that client does come in with the signs and symptoms that your Bucha massage technique could be. Benefit then why? Why wouldn't? Why wouldn't you? Exactly yes, it's really wonderful. And so RMTS, as I said, like are qualified to do intra oral work. In my experience, clients are shocked at how much relief they feel after intra oral work, especially when they didn't even know it was an option. It's still like, they still don't fully know that we can do it. I think we've kind of covered it. But I mean, how do clients typically respond after their first buccal massage session, especially those who had no idea intra oral work was even on the table.

Speaker 1

20:32

So I find that they're after the first treatment. They're surprised at how much tension really they were experiencing, especially in the masseter muscles, because a lot of us are holding trigger points in there, and so that is what I hear quite often from clients, is that I didn't know that I had so much tension in there. I knew it was tight or that it hurt, you know, to chew, but I didn't realize that I was holding so much tension. And when you were working on it, it was, you know, it was a good pain. It was, it was uncomfortable, but it felt really good. And that awareness, I think, is also part of the the importance of the Bucha. Bucha massage is for people to be more aware of where that tension is, where they're holding that tension in their face, and it'll bring more awareness to am I clenching my teeth? Am I Am I grinding my teeth at night? Because a lot of people don't even realize they're doing it so that awareness is another huge benefit of the treatment. I think,

Krista Dicks

21:46

yeah, absolutely. And so what inspired you? Then let's jump into your Bucha massage master class. And what did inspire you to create it for other massage therapists?

Speaker 1

21:58

I think that because I had to do so much research when I first started offering it, I switched up a few of the techniques, but creating treatment plans for clients and really fully going back into The Anatomy of of the muscles of of the muscles of mastication and expression, their actions and even, like, the emotional responses. I did a lot of research, and I thought, you know, maybe I could put this into a course for massage therapists, because there didn't seem to be anything available, right, that I could find. So that's why I started the Bucha massage master class.

Krista Dicks

22:45

Yeah, yeah, I have Bucha massage on my like, wish list. Oh, yeah. So you know, and my wish list is usually the links to other instructors I've seen, but it's around the world. And as you've also noted, I mean, there might not be a program specifically for RMTS when you've taken all of your research and obviously your passion for for just wanting to know what is happening literally underneath the surface there, that's right when you're creating these changes. So yes, it makes it makes sense. I'm really glad that you were able to put that together specifically for our community.

Speaker 1

23:20

And another thing that I wanted to accomplish with the with the chorus, is for more massage therapists to become interested in taking this because I was so shocked at how many clients were coming in for the Bucha massage. And even though it's it is charged. We charge a higher price for the Bucha massage. That is not an issue. And there is not just myself, but we have two other massage therapists that are offering, offering the Bucha massage, and so we're getting a lot of bookings. I i feel like more massage therapists if if they were doing it, they would, they would get busy with it, and it would provide more opportunities for clients. Because I know I had so many clients come in to say, I've been looking for somewhere that does the Bucha, and for a long time, I couldn't find anyone. And I know the massage therapists in Ottawa who do it. I don't know them, but I know who's offering it. And there's not a there's like a handful of us. So it would be so awesome if more massage therapists did it. Yes,

Krista Dicks

24:33

you're like, ground, ground level. If you want to get into it now, you have a real opportunity to be one of the first

Speaker 1

24:40

Absolutely, absolutely. That's what we said when we started. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

24:44

excellent. And what are some of the key skills or techniques that your students are going to learn in this course? So

Speaker 1

24:53

the beginning, they're going to learn the lymphatic drainage for the face and the neck. That, like I said, is really. Important for inflammation, edema, and they're going to have a lot of learning about the muscles, the anatomy of the face, the jaw and the neck. It's all because we're working the entire area. Everything's connected. So we go a lot into anatomy and theory. And then we focus on treatments for headaches, trigger point referral, pain patterns and myofascial release, the techniques for that and why it's so effective and how it helps to release trigger points and adhesions. And then we get into the intra oral massage. So the technique, the techniques that are in the Bucha massage, are a little bit different than the ones that we learned in school. They're a bit gentler. And it's not just about applying ischemic pressure to release a trigger point. It's also about giving a very gentle stretch and lifting of the muscles to help to give a more of a muscle balance to the face and the jaw. And then there's a neck routine that I I teach as well, and we talk a lot about bruxism and how, how it occurs. And, of course, the head forward postures at the end we we talk about

Krista Dicks

26:31

that a lot. Okay, yeah, that's great. That was one of the notes that I made. Was, in your course, do you address that head forward posture and, and I mean, again, as massage therapists, we understand remedial exercise or advice on how to prevent it, but it is so prominent in, you know, our clients these days and the exact so because of the habits and the work that we do, that's right. So do you address, do you give some kind of home care recommendations as well,

Speaker 1

27:00

absolutely so. At the end of the course, we start talking about home care, and I teach some exercises that people can do at home or in the office that don't take very long, but help to stretch the temporalis, the masseter, the sternocleidomastoid, which is so, so important to release. So those are some exercises that the massage therapist can give to their clients so that, you know during the times where they're not able to come in, that they're doing their exercises to kind of maintain the benefits, yeah, that they've received, yes.

Krista Dicks

27:41

And then for clients where, how much, how often do you feel that a good recommendation is, is there, is there also a protocol, or, like, a treatment plan, to get the absolute benefit,

Speaker 1

27:52

absolutely so I have clients come in that have a lot that if they're experiencing a lot of muscle tension in the muscles of mastication. Then I usually have them come in for about three sessions over the space of a month. And then after that, if I can have them come in every four to six weeks for maintenance, that is a great treatment plan. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

28:16

wonderful. Yeah. And have you converted any of your regular clients who were back neck, shoulders, people I'm hunched over a desk, just work on my back neck, shoulders. But then you introduce Bucha massage to them, and it's like a whole new world, and they almost feel better for a longer period of time. Now, have you completely converted some of your clients,

Speaker 1

28:35

some of them I have, and because that extra component to working on just the neck and the shoulders, it has made such a big difference. So I have converted some clients to the Bucha massage, and some of my coworkers have been recommending the Bucha massage to their clients that not necessarily that they are doing the Bucha massage, but they'll refer them to me or my coworker who also does it. And so, yeah, it's, it's been really good. It's, it's busy.

Krista Dicks

29:13

Yeah, that's great. And that's how, again, how I feel we should be working together if you do not offer Bucha massage, but you know a qualified individual who does it's okay that you don't do it. You know, do what you do right, work on your strengths, but then, yeah, refer, refer to those, absolutely, those extra skills to be a massage therapist who have done the training, and it's just a nice like way the client respects you more. I agree.

Speaker 1

29:38

Yeah, yes. I because I know that there are certain techniques that my coworkers have that that's not really how I work, and I'm always referring to them, and so we have this great system where we do that, and you're right. I find that our clients, they respect that we're not. Being super competitive and wanting to keep the clients all to ourselves, because it's just, it's a cycle. Yeah, it works really well for us.

Krista Dicks

30:10

Absolutely. One thing that came to mind when you were talking about, like, even jaw clenching, one thing that I say to my clients is like, okay, so you clench your jaw, but like, there's a reason why you're clenching your jaw. We can release some of this tension today. You might feel a little bit better, but there's got to be some underlying reason why you're you're clenching because there's stress you know exactly you do you have any way to address that? Or do you also have somebody that professional, that you might refer to in order to maybe there's a mental component or another piece of the puzzle?

Speaker 1

30:44

Well, I agree that there's definitely another piece of the puzzle. I try to because a lot of people who are experiencing bruxism, they are experiencing maybe a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress in their life, and which is which is triggering that. So I might, I might address that by giving them maybe some relaxation techniques, such as some deep breathing or maybe some meditation, something that will help to bring down their their stress and their anxiety, and sometimes I think people need to just hear that, you know, they because it's not enough just to go and have treatments all the time, but it's how, like, on a functional level, how are you managing this and to bringing down your stress and your anxiety, that's a really good way of starting at the foundation of minimizing grinding and teeth clenching. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

31:53

do you work with dentists at all? Have you approached any of them? Or have you had just referrals? Because now they're starting to understand where the benefits are, and you're only again going to help each other.

Speaker 1

32:05

So dentists are starting to refer their patients for Bucha massage. I have had clients who've told me, yes, my dentist told me, you know, try this Bucha massage, and that that could be very helpful. I haven't been reaching out to to dentists office, but I think that that is a great idea. It's definitely on the list of things to do. But we have been fortunate enough that, as I said, I feel like clients are learning more and more about this just online so but I think dentists are also realizing that this Bucha massage is very effective for their patients also, yeah,

Krista Dicks

32:48

I mean, just as you're saying that, like with the online, it is such a beautiful space that we can learn, but there's just also so much out there. You must also be some very negative examples that are claiming that they're doing Bucha massage or facial massage, and you're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, what are you doing?

Speaker 1

33:07

Yes, but you know, originally the Bucha massage that was developed about, I'm going to say, about 20 years ago, and in Europe, and originally it was for esthetic purposes. And so when I see some videos that I feel like even the wording that they're using, facelift and sculpting, you know, things that I feel are unreal, unrealistic expectations for people to have when they go for Bucha massage. I mean, when your muscles relax, when you have more blood flow, and your skin is glowing, that's that's the the esthetic benefit, and it's amazing, and the lymphatic drainage also helping to remove the edema that is, esthetically, it's lovely, but I feel like there's a lot online that I think they get a little carried away with the the language that they're using, and you know, that could be interpreted in the wrong way by some people like, yeah,

Krista Dicks

34:25

that's managing expectations, which is then obviously where you come in as a professional. And, you know, I also, I'm trained in lymphatic massage additionally. So you certainly get some expectations as to the people thinking what lymphatic massage is going to do, right? And and you have to polite, politely, you know, re educate, but still offer where, what they want and what they what it actually will do, and try to find that that compromise

Unknown Speaker

34:54

absolutely, yeah,

Krista Dicks

34:57

and I also didn't mention that this. It's also online, so it's a virtual course. It's a

Speaker 1

35:03

virtual course, that's it. So what I do is it, I offer a four week course, and there's dates for the course. So even though it's a virtual course, the students show up on Zoom once a week. And we do, we go over anatomy and theory, and it also helps to keep the students on track, because when you're doing everything on your own, something is going to come up that you you'll put the course to the side. And when you have an unlimited amount of time again, you're going to become distracted. It's really difficult. So having a timeline, a four week timeline, and it is a must to show up for the class, the Zoom class. And what I ask the students to do is watch the demonstration videos that I have on the learning platform. They watch the demonstration videos during the week for that module, they practice the techniques with their family, with their coworkers, and then I ask them to send me a practice video so that I can give them feedback on it. I don't I wouldn't say that it is the best way to learn a course, but I know that I can't always travel, you know, across the country or somewhere else to take a course. And the demonstration videos are so clear and concise that I don't worry about that, that they're not seeing what I want them to see in the in the hands on. And then when they send me the it's just, I asked them to send me a two minute practice video, three techniques that they've learned that week. And it, you know, I find that they're learning it really well, because they're the techniques look amazing what they're sending back. So, you know that that seems to be working really well.

Krista Dicks

37:05

Yeah. I mean, yeah, you've definitely got the benefit of having a population that already knows, like, touch, you know, we exact what I think is really great for accountability, one that you need to have them live on the Zoom call so they know they're attentive to, you know, they're serious about this. It's only a four week commitment. You're asking them to practice and and send you a demo video of those techniques, which, then, again, holds them accountable, gets their hands on. They're practicing, they're getting more confident. So that's that's really great as well. And I completely Yes, like it's it's so hard to travel for courses, a lot of them so inexpensive. And it's nice to hear you say that the videos that you're in your program are concise and clear Absolutely. Honestly, even in a an in person class, sometimes when you've got 50 people gathered around one massage table. I still can't see what exactly is is happening

Speaker 1

38:05

and and exactly, and then to try and remember the next day, what did, what did the instructor do to be able to go back to the videos and watch it a couple of times, three times, to really zero in on the techniques. That's a huge advantage. I think I like doing it that way. Yeah, yeah.

Krista Dicks

38:27

Do you have a lot of massage therapists come in as like they're each taking the course, but you know, their their goal is to be each other's partner as well? Or do you find that it's just practicing on whoever you can you can grab?

Speaker 1

38:40

Well, I have students from different parts of Ontario, different parts of Canada, so they are really unless they decided to take it with another massage therapist where they can practice together, they're usually sending me videos where they're practicing on their friends and family and some of their clients even, like I mentioned that, that if you have some regular clients that would be happy to help you for two minutes, and they so they're asking their clients if they would be in their video. And that's really great, too,

Krista Dicks

39:16

yeah. And most of the time, our clients are like, Oh, new tech, sure. I

Unknown Speaker

39:21

would love to exactly they're excited to help.

Krista Dicks

39:23

Excellent. So, I mean, that leads to the next question, which it seems that you've got a pretty good handle on it, but how do you ensure that therapists feel confident and safe performing the massage? Yeah,

Speaker 1

39:36

that's definitely when it is a smaller group, I can have more discussion on the Zoom, because there's a portion of the class dedicated to discussion questions and answers, and that's where we kind of dive into questions about if I come across. This situation, what would you do? Things like that and the like I said, the videos I can see where they're being tentative, which is totally normal. When you're you're learning new techniques. You are going to take your time because you want to do them properly. You're going to be more gentle because you're not ready to just dive in yet. So I can see on the videos how they're progressing and even how they feel about doing it, if they're really confident, or maybe with my feedback, I can give them a little boost by saying, if you just do this, or if I could just mentioned this, I find that they will take that into consideration when they when they're practicing. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

40:49

and what do you feel is the experience level of the massage therapist or the RMTS coming in, because you yourself have been 20 plus years, yes, yes. And you know, as you said, it was a turning point for you that you weren't sure how long you're going to continue massage, and that's a big theme on the podcast. And I'm again, like, you're one of the radical examples of why I want to share more about the this, this opportunity. Because there's, like, it's okay to be at that crossroads, and there's different reasons why you might be at that crossroads, and if it means just learning a new technique that is now easier on your body long term, and you're more reinvigorated to like, go to work and practice, but where do you where do you feel is the experience level is that are there a lot like you are kind of like, I'm trying something new, maybe younger massage therapists that are are Watching the Instagram and tiktoks, and they're like, I want to, I want to be part of this.

Speaker 1

41:45

Absolutely, I find that a lot of the students are or they have been massage therapists for maybe a couple of years. It's the younger massage therapists who they don't want to be doing deep tissue for 20 years. They want to have a long career, and so to be able to develop techniques where they can work efficiently, effectively and and be kind to their own body, I think the younger generation is starting to realize this. And then I do have massage therapists who have been in the industry for years, and I want something that is gentler to on their own bodies, where they're not applying so much pressure, which you can't you can't apply deep tissue when you're doing the Bucha massage. If they can just complement their practice with techniques that are like that, then I'm getting definitely students who've been practicing for years.

Krista Dicks

42:53

Yeah, that's great.

Unknown Speaker

42:54

Yeah, it is. It's exciting.

Krista Dicks

42:57

What about any myths or misconceptions about Bucha massage that you'd like to debunk.

Speaker 1

43:05

I would definitely like to debunk the myth that it's just kind of a fluffy esthetic massage, because it's not. It's so effective. I mean, the results that I've been getting from clients, the feedback from the clients. When my I had a client who told me that she said for three weeks that she said I felt like I wasn't grinding my teeth, and she said it just started in this last week, but luckily, I have my appointment. So to me, that's progress. That is effect. There. Those techniques are effective. So I think that is really what I would like to debunk, is the fact that these, that some people may believe, that these techniques are not going to be effective therapeutically for massage therapists, and they, they are so effective. Yeah, I've had such great results, and I again, it's the feedback from my clients that tell me more than anything.

Krista Dicks

44:17

Yeah, good, important part, absolutely, getting the benefit. What's Yeah, what is their feedback Exactly? And that's really all that that matters. That's right. I mean, vehicle massage isn't exactly a household word. I mean, like you said, it is becoming more trendy. You are starting to see it more on Tiktok and Instagram, but most people don't even know what it means. Really. They might see a video, but how do you market or talk about it in a way that connects with potential clients and gets them curious instead of more confused?

Speaker 1

44:53

Well, first of all, I want to mention that when it comes to advertising, that massage therapists have. Be very careful our scope of practice, we cannot advertise the esthetic benefits of it. So our I do have to be careful with advertising. And I on our website, the spa where I work, we have a description that talks about the lymphatic drainage. It talks about the techniques of intra oral work, and how it helps to release muscle tension in the jaw, how it helps grinding and and clenching of the teeth. So that's all in the description that we have, and I find that that connects with so many people, anyone. I mean, there's so many people who experience the bruxism that that really connects with them. Yeah, definitely

Krista Dicks

45:52

Excellent. Yes. It is really important, because we are under a microscope when it comes to Oh, advertising, actually, yes. And as much as you might want to talk about some of the physical changes that might happen as absolutely result. You Yeah, it's you can't. You cannot, no, and that's, I think that's okay.

Speaker 1

46:12

I think that's okay as well. And I talk about that in the class, because that is really important. It was a learning curve for me about exactly what I could put into advertising and descriptions, so I want to share that with the students when they're advertising. These are the things that like what we're just talking about that will resonate with with the public. But yeah, you really. And it's not just in Ontario, the the other provinces are exactly the same. You can't offer Bucha massage for esthetic purposes. It has to be for muscle and joint pain, yeah,

Krista Dicks

46:52

so yeah, and it's really wonderful that you're sharing your experience and how they can can share this with the general public, because it's also going to protect the reputation of Bucha massage right as well being done by registered massage therapists

Speaker 1

47:08

Exactly, exactly. And with so many, there's so many applications to the Bucha that we it's it's perfectly fine to just focus on therapeutic benefits and the therapeutic applications. So there's a big there's room for everybody, yeah.

Krista Dicks

47:31

What advice would you give to massage therapists who are curious then about adding Bucha massage to their practice?

Speaker 1

47:37

I would ask myself, do I want to do something different? Do I want to where will I be comfortable working inside the client's mouth? Because for some people, for some massage therapists, that may not be something that they want to do, that they want to offer. So I would ask myself, if that's something that you know I could, I could do several times a day or and throughout the week, if I would be okay with that? Definitely, yeah,

Krista Dicks

48:13

absolutely, yeah, yeah, that what that comfort level is, and and that it isn't a trend like I do enjoy our new way of like our CEU. I don't mind it, yeah, because it does give you a lot more flexibility. And you're not just taking a course for the sake of taking a course. That's right, you know, you can really choose where you want to go and how you you feel and and just choose something that's exciting for you instead of just getting that, like, plan your own journey Exactly? Yeah, wonderful. So those are my like, top 11 questions. We've definitely got more at this point. Is there anything that you feel that that we need to cover is like a core a core question topic, something you'd like to share. Um,

Speaker 1

49:08

I think we've covered pretty much everything, except to say that I know that massage therapists don't necessarily want to specialize in something, but the Bucha massage, for those who would like to have a niche, is a great direction to go in, because it is. It's a popular treatment, and you have, there's so many people in the public that would benefit from the Bucha massage. So if a massage therapist did want to create a niche for their practice, I think that Bucha massage is an excellent direction to

Krista Dicks

49:48

go in. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, massage therapy is just such a flexible career that if you do give it a go for a long time and the niche works out great. If you ever get tired of being that, like just doing Bucha massage, you know that you can, you know, go back into your regular style of therapeutic massage as well. It's just so wonderful. That's right, yeah, see when you were looking at Bucha massage, did you have any misconceptions about what it was? And then when you got into it, you were like, Oh, I'm it's not quite what I thought it was going to be. Obviously, it's better for you, for you, but yeah, what did you think it was going to be?

Speaker 1

50:35

Um, I didn't realize how effective that it would be and how powerful it would be. I was looking at it as, oh, well, this is this is going to be great. You know, I'm doing facial massage, doing intra oral massage. I'll be able to open up my practice to a completely different market. I thought that, but I was surprised at how effective it really is and how many applications there are for the Bucha massage that surprised me. Yeah, good.

Krista Dicks

51:12

What about one piece of advice to your younger self? So your younger Susan starting massage therapy, you were just starting out, and because you did reach a crossroads. So if you could go back and tell your younger self one piece of advice, what would it

Speaker 1

51:29

be? I think it would be not to be afraid to step out of the box. It's okay to do something to go in a different direction with my career, where a close knit group, especially in Ottawa, of massage therapists. We kind of all know what everybody's doing. So, you know, I would say to my younger self, don't be Don't be a chicken. Go in the direction that you want to go in. Yeah, definitely, I would say that. And I, I work with a lot of younger massage therapists, and that's how they're leading their career, right? They're doing what they want to do, as opposed to what everybody else is doing, yeah,

Krista Dicks

52:13

well, when you mentioned that you're getting younger massage therapists, or early, you know, early in their career, massage therapists, two or three years saying, Well, I'm not gonna do deep tissue. It took me, like, 10 years to get to that point, just because I thought it was gonna be the standard. It's your bread and butter. And it's like, what else was I going to do? But you just yeah, like, I do appreciate it as somebody who's like, old school in the profession as well. I'm like, Oh, these young, young kids, and they think that they can just come in and only work during the day, you know that, you know, and like, evenings and weekends. Like, I like, wait, you know, I sacrificed everything for this. You pay your dues, yeah. But no good for them. I'm like, great. This is

Speaker 1

52:55

great, exactly. And it's funny, because I'm the same old school where, if you didn't do deep tissue, good luck building your clientele, right? So that's how I built my clientele with deep tissue. And it to be able to see that, oh, you can do other things and still be successful, that's great. Yeah, it's inspiring. It is inspiring. Definitely.

Krista Dicks

53:27

How do you stay up to date with, like, new research or techniques? When it comes to Bucha massage?

Speaker 1

53:32

I I am always researching, yeah, definitely. And learning more and more. And, you know, from different schools of therapy as well, because I would like to move towards craniosacral and try and bring in some of those elements into the Bucha massage in the future. I think that would be amazing. Because, you know, there's just so much out there, but definitely the research. There's always new information, and it's just a matter of keeping up with it, which I'm doing all the time. In June, I'm publishing an online magazine called the mandible, and it's, it's all it's only articles about the head, neck and jaw. So I am going to invite guest writers to submit articles. I'm writing my own articles. And it's I feel like that there's a space for something like that, for massage therapists that we haven't explored before. So just bringing more and more education into our industry,

Krista Dicks

54:47

yeah, yeah, that's wonderful. And I'm glad to hear you say you are interested in doing the craniosacral therapy, because I think it does tie in really well with what what you're doing. And I think you will you're. Like, you're just gonna be, like, blown away by the benefits of the craniosacral therapy brings into it and adds to this, this other, this other layer, right? Yeah, yeah, it'll be, it'll be really great for That's

Speaker 1

55:12

amazing. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. They have so many things on my list, but that is definitely at the top of my list. Yeah,

Krista Dicks

55:20

that's another one that it's just it's not offered in Ottawa very often, no, when it is, like, jump on it,

Speaker 1

55:27

sure exactly, if it's in Toronto or absolutely,

Krista Dicks

55:31

yeah, yeah, for sure. And so what feedback have you received from therapists who have taken your course?

Speaker 1

55:39

So I have. It's funny because I just heard from one yesterday who she is offering it in the spa. She just moved and she's offering it in the spa that she works in, and she's really busy with it, and she's just changed a few elements that she which is great, because you can do that. You could use a gua sha stone. Everything is hands on in the course that I teach, but for the lymphatic drainage, she started using the Gua Sha stone. So, you know, it's great to hear that they're actually practicing the techniques and the protocols, and they're doing well with it. It's like, you know, you've taken courses before, and you may not use that. I remember I've taken two cupping courses, and I didn't start using the cupping for two years for some reason. So, you know, I'm, I'm just, I think the more people practice the massage therapist, the more they practice putting the protocol together, the more, the more quickly they'll be able to implement that into their practice. Definitely,

Krista Dicks

56:52

and their own individual style will come out as well, just like it does for massage Yes, absolutely, the techniques in school. But then when we come out, there's no two massage therapists are

Speaker 1

57:02

at work the same, exactly. You make it your own. Yeah.

Krista Dicks

57:08

And were there any challenges? It sounds like things were pretty smooth when you were introducing Bucha massage to your clients or your practice

Speaker 1

57:18

the introducing the Bucha massage, to my clients and to the public were very smooth. That went really, really well. I did from other massage therapists, though I did get some negative feedback, and I'm gonna, I'll be honest, it was kind of hurtful, because, especially after being in the industry for so many years that you want to you want that support. And I did receive plenty of support. I'm not saying I didn't. I did, but some people I was surprised that how negative. But I think that comes with new new ideas, new massage techniques that I think some massage therapists would like things to just stay the same, and that's

Krista Dicks

58:14

it. Yeah. Well, you know, as you said, it was a success in You Wish you'd told your younger self to do, just do what you wanted to do, right? But it's hard to stand out, and suddenly, when you do stand out, then people go, Well, maybe now, am I? Am I not pushing myself and growing in this profession? It's just a self reflection that that they're yes, they're not willing to take the same risks that you are. They probably said you'll lose, like, your clientele, or you won't be respected in the massage community. I'm sure, absolutely, yeah, and I can imagine it would have been hurtful to not feel supported. As you said, there was a lot of support, but for sure, that people come out just to say like

Speaker 1

58:59

that was a bit unexpected. I didn't, I didn't see that coming. But you know now it's fine. I'm not, I'm not getting that kind of feedback now, but in the beginning, definitely I did, yeah,

Krista Dicks

59:13

but even if you do, you mean, you have a track record to say, like, oh, that's, that's your, that's your belief, and not mine. I things are going really well on this side, right? And it just, yeah, it's just this really interesting, like, the tall poppy syndrome as well. Like, how dare you, like,

Speaker 1

59:34

how dare you try to stand out, how dare you do something different, right?

Krista Dicks

59:39

Absolutely. And I also feel that sometimes, when we get that pushback, if we don't, if we hear crickets, like, if we pull out something new, and we get crickets from our community positive or like, we're not getting any positive, we're not getting anything negative, right? I don't feel like we're doing any anything exciting, like, I think you do want some negativity. And that's true, be scared a little bit of what you're doing and and where you could go with this, because it means you're doing something that's shaking up the profession a little

Speaker 1

01:00:10

bit that people are thinking about it. That's right. I agree. Somebody had once told me that when it comes to social media and reviews, you can have 100 great reviews, but if you don't have any negative reviews, that's not realistic. That's not how our society works. There's always going to be some negativity, some pushback, and and this person told me you actually want that. You don't, you know you don't have to. It's not enough that you need to worry about it. But people are noticing what you're doing.

Krista Dicks

01:00:48

Yes, yes, absolutely, I agree with that. So looking forward then, Susan, were your for your vehicle massage master class. How do you see the field of mucal Massage evolving in the next few years.

Speaker 1

01:01:04

I think that more and more massage therapists are going to be offering it in their practice. And I think we're going to be learning more about the benefits and and you know, even how we can offer more treatments in the sense like I have clients coming to me wanting to address sign sinusitis. So that's an area that also that I'm I'm looking into and doing some research on and with the lymphatic drainage and how effective that would be. So I think we're just going to keep learning more and more about its benefits, and I really do believe that more massage therapists are going to be wanting to incorporate this into their practice. I started by offering the course to Canadian massage therapists, and now I've gotten approval to have my course offered to American Massage Therapists. And that's a you know, the very we're very different. Every massage therapist community is different. So trying to get more and more massage therapists to understand the benefits and be able to offer it in a purely therapeutic direction. That's my goal, definitely.

Krista Dicks

01:02:30

And that's great. And, yeah, even when more massage therapists are offering it, it still won't be saturated. There's still gonna be, oh, plenty. Of course, go around just like you're

Speaker 1

01:02:39

right. Oh, my goodness, exactly, lots. That's right, there's room for everybody.

Krista Dicks

01:02:44

Yeah, yeah. Last question that I have is, what's next for you and your Bucha massage master class? Any exciting projects or plans on the horizon? You mentioned the mandible, so anything else that's that's coming up for you?

Speaker 1

01:02:58

So in the next 12 months, I'm going to be putting together a second course, and I really want to focus on the sinusitis, and I think that the craniosacral, though, there would be techniques that would be able to address that as well. So that's something I'm looking into for the second course that I want to offer in about a year from now.

Krista Dicks

01:03:26

Yeah, awesome. So the plans, plans are there, you bet absolutely any closing thoughts for our listeners today. Susan,

Speaker 1

01:03:35

I just would if you could have a look at my website. It's on a learning platform, Thinkific. Have a look at the description of the course. It's called the Bucha lab.thinkific.com, and just go through the description. And if they have any questions, just to send me an email, I'd love to answer anybody's questions and concerns.

Krista Dicks

01:03:59

And how can people reach out to you on top of the course?

Speaker 1

01:04:04

So my email is the Bucha lab@gmail.com and they can, they can reach out to me through my email. Okay, absolutely. And I just want to thank you so much for having me here today and to be able to talk about the Bucha massage, to really be able to talk about it. So thank you so

Krista Dicks

01:04:25

much. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thank you for contacting me again. It takes risk and it takes a little bit of confidence, and, you know, a little bit of chance of rejection there to put yourself forward and to want to share this course with the RMT community and share it on a podcast, yes, so I'm meeting for the first time and coming to a strange place, and so I really appreciate you taking the time to come in today as well. Thank you. You.

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