[2] Exploring the Bardos: Navigating the Mysteries of Death and Consciousness

2:10AM Aug 18, 2023

Speakers:

Andrew Holecek

Keywords:

dying

book

death

bardo

bardot

teachings

dream

experience

work

preparing

meditation

called

process

talking

buddhism

view

life

intuitions

mind

direct

really understands karma. And so, yeah, I was just gonna say this it says it is beyond our scope to thoroughly explore karma, reincarnation and reincarnation. We simply take them as Givens as axioms. It's up to the reader to choose how to view these teachings. And that's one of the really interesting things. Remember over and over about the whole Buddhist thing is that, yes, it presents this incredible array of topics, especially when it comes to thanatology death and dying the Bardot's but it never expects anybody to accept this stuff on face value, but allegedly said when he was dying, right. And I take what I say for granted test my teachings against your own experience. Work out your own salvation with diligence, see if it works for you. Tibetan Buddhism is not the only Buddhist tradition that teaches the Bardot's but it is the most complete it goes all the way back to the to the Tera Vaada tradition to the first turning teachings. Where if you look with classic foundational texts like the Abbe Dharma, Kosha, and even the wheel of life which depicts the first full exposition of the Buddha's teachings, what he discovered under the Bodhi tree, you'll find overt and covert intimations of the Bardo teachings going back to ground zero. other faith traditions have different views of what happens that even within Buddhism, the views differ from one school to the next. While this book is directed to students of Tibetan Buddhism, which I believe arguably as the most replete, complete tradition, they go into it more than any other school. It can benefit anyone interested in penetrating the mysteries of death from a Buddhist perspective. And I would actually say anybody who's interested in looking at end of life from a non materialistic point of view, anything that kind of expands the horizons of physicalism and materialism, because within those particular frameworks, if you subscribe to that Kool Aid, then this material is just bunk made, it's just no way. But from an idealistic point of view, reality is not made of matter. It's made of mind, heart, spirit, whatever you want to call it. This stuff is not only workable, it's it's completely inevitable. The central orienting you orienting view and the debate in the world and to the doctrine that provides the doctrine that provides a template for this book is that as the three death Bardot's the painful Bardo, dying aluminous part of Dharma Todd dermatolog means isn't this suchness reality and the karmic party will be coming. And so these are the the, the three Bardot's along with other principles that are picking up in our discussion of the book altogether. In particular, the three body principle that kya the yoga Chara, these are the organizing generalizations, the the templates that structure the Bardo teachings and it's a little bit like what Dumbledore said, Right? I'll take you through it right and get it through the well organized mind. Death is but the next great adventure. Well, that's what these teachings do. They help to organize the mind they help to put some structure to his otherwise just to completely be well during set of experiences. These three bars relate respectively to the before during and after structure. The book is a brief overview the painful part of dying begins with an onset of a disease or condition that ends in death, or is Deepak Chopra, very playfully put it. That's Life Life Is he put it, life is a sexually transmitted terminal dis ease. There's some real truth to that. Right. So we've entered, we're always in a battle, right? But classically speaking, the art of dying ends with a condition that's going to end with your death. In the case of sudden death, this occurs in a flash it's called painful Of course, why? Because it hurts to let go. And so this is a central principle, right that one way or the other. There has to be some differentiation. That's a euphemism. There has to be some letting go. That's also a euphemism. There has to be some dying to false levels of identification to fake news to all the obscurations the adventitious defilements that obscure, fundamental truth because at least according to this tradition, this was revealed that the moment of death, all levels of the mind, all fake news, all relative truths. Everything ceases utterly expires. And at the end of that fundamental dusting project, you can say shoveling or removing project is revealed reality itself. That's the Dharma towel. And that's what I'm up here at dollar Mountain Center teaching for the week, starting tomorrow. The luminous part of Dharma Tara begins at the end of the Bardo die for most people, it passes unrecognized. Dermatol being suchness refers to the nature of reality, the enlightened state, most people actually will really won't recognize it at all. They'll have maybe few little fleeting flashes of light. Somebody can do what you may feel as you're falling asleep. But for someone who hasn't done the preparatory practices associated with these extremely subtle branches of mine, that's the other thing that happens in the Bardo trajectory. You're going from gross to subtle, to extremely subtle dimensions of body and mind and that's what the meditation practices are designed to work with, they prepare us they allow us to associate with these more subtle dimensions, differentiating from letting go of these more gross dimensions, because again, anything constituted a form doesn't go through this particular process. It is fantastically brilliant, hence luminous. The light of the mind there's no there's no external light source waiting on the part of Dharma TA. What makes it so luminous is the thermonuclear radiance, the power of the the awakened mind. It's so bloody bright that it blinds us, and we faint. And so for those of you who may know the 12 lengths, the 12 Madonna's a little sidebar here, this is in fact what creates the first Madonna, ignorance depicted by what a blind grandmother blinded by this on a flash. It's a little bit like those old Flash cute are those big photographs. Some of you are probably too young, but the big old Flash ball, do it pop off and then your eyes would be completely constructed and you'd be temporarily blind. Exactly what happens in the Bardo. Dimitar, leading to the blindness of the grandmother. Ignorance which starts the whole chain all over again. We then wake up days non lucid, another way for non lucidity in the karmic Bardo, becoming suchness is gone. The confusion and confusion re arises as comma returns to blow us into our next life. So as we'll see, and I don't remember if I use his languaging in his book, but we'll see as we go through this, at least to some extent, what happens in the luminous part of Dermatol or heaven breaks loose, all the archetypal expressions of your awakened mind are released as typified in the water called the 100 Peaceful wrathful deities. If we don't recognize those that we're not familiar with that dimension of our awakened being, which again without some practice, why would we be we black out, and then guess what? All hell breaks loose. That's one of the relative karmic dimensions of our mind are unleashed without mediation. The entire process takes about 49 days and will be described in detail below. And again, the 49 days nothing's fixed here. This is don't ask me I have no idea where they get this number. Well, I know where it comes from. I know where suitor comes from. But how they got it. I have no idea. But nothing is really particularly fixed. What constitutes the average so called the average of the 49 day journey is the sorting out of the vast complex play of karma that again, only a really awakened one can understand. Some people that have really heavy heavy, good karma, there is no Bartow. They skip right into the pure lands or into the higher domains of rebirth. Those who have really, really bad negative karma, same thing so Gala, Rinpoche, talked about these as Bardo VIPs that they're so good, they're so bad, but you actually skip the entire Bartle thing they go right from the death process into their next birth. That's what they say that everyone goes through the Bardot's the same way. This is important. Only a few teachers assert that the journey is universal, and that everyone will, for example, experienced the deities of the Bardo of Dermatol. In a similar way, very few assert that. Most teachers say that cultural differences and personal idiosyncrasies generate a variety of experiences. This makes total sense to me, right? Why would a Christian or Muslim with very different beliefs experience death the same way as a Buddhist? But again, as we'll see the orienting generalizations are sustained. There are some fundamental archetypal expressions that I think can be applied to any tradition because it's it's mine. It's the same mind it's just the inculturation is the cultural trappings, the different types of admonitions to farmers. That's what makes the differences but the fundamental return to the nature of mind to me, I think you can make a really good case for that.

As we will see, the journey through the Bardot's is a journey through the mind. It's a journey. of the mind. It's a journey into the mind. And again now when we're talking about mind, this is a multi Balan term has a number of different definitions. We're talking about both relative dimensions of mind for students of the Buddhist tradition here this would be what's called Sam or Nam che consciousness. journey through the relative dimensions of mind to land and the absolute dimension of the mind that's raypak are gay, but either well relative or absolute. The journey is in fact a journey of the mind because again, that's all there is. There's nothing else. It's just like a dream. There's nothing else in the mind even now you look up right now you think you're looking at a material world, no way. No way. It's all mine just like a dream. The Buddhist view the essence of the mind. is the same for all sentient beings, but the surface structures differ. Hence the journey through the surface structures that's the Bardo, diving into the essence of mind the Bardo. damata And then out of it, the part of becoming is not the same. But the general pattern of this three stage process is universal, at least according to the Buddhists. Well, while the Tibetans have breathtaking resources, and boy do they ever, I mean, this bibliography that I put together, this is I think, over 10 years old now was pretty complete at the time. And I'd say there's at least another third of the amount of books that have been published over the last I mean, Pema children just put one out this year, they're coming out all the time, which is just fantastic is literature's so replete here. Modern Masters admit to instances of cultural insularity and peculiarity for example, the ancient texts state that is best not to cry out in distress when someone is nearing death, as this can adversely affect the mind of the dying person, Tibetan teachers familiar with our Western ways realize this instruction doesn't apply as readily to us. No kidding. To mesh Tibetans are emotionally reserved. They don't express themselves like we do. For us not only is emotion permissible it's expected. So while it's not so good to grasp frantically after the dying person, which is why by the way, as you know, probably so many people die when people go away. They go to bathroom break, they go to dinner, they come back dead. So this is actually a really important thing. Not only is it important for the dying person to let go from their side, it is super important. For caregivers loved loved ones left behind, so to speak, but let go from our side. Because otherwise the the clamoring the grasping that takes place from those left behind can really adversely negatively affect people. I mean, I spent a fair amount of time with death and dying. And I cannot tell you how many times I have seen this. People step out for a little while. There's a little bit of a break, that's when they let go. So as a way to help your loved ones go the painful battle dying is also painful for you left so to speak left behind and part of our journey is to release to release to let go do the do the the grieving do the releasing do the reminiscing beforehand, if at all possible while they're still conscious. It's amazing how fast they slip into domains of unconsciousness those of you who work in this field you know this so you want to do this sooner better than later. But then you just encourage them. Just let them allow them to go release them from their own from your side. It's never easy, right? Because Because the mind is just so bloody sticking. We stick everything so while it's not so great to grasp frantically after the dying person as we'll discuss it's also not healthy to completely repress our feelings. Well, that of course can lead to the other problem. All kinds of complicated grief right? unmetabolized undigested grief compounded grief, which also creates more excessive issues. So the issue of universality capitalist city versus cultural vicissitudes is present anytime teachings migrate from an ancient culture into modern one. This is taking place right now. So in addition to all the remarkable liturgical translators, that which there's extraordinary amount of really gifted ones there's also a number of very gifted I think cultural translators who work to translate these teachings into western culture and this is why I particularly appreciate so much the teachers who come over and learn the culture learn the language immerse themselves in in crazy ways, and then relayed to us either i Those are the ones that I particularly I have such homage and respect for, because they just have a greater comprehension of all the little cultural machinations and weirdnesses that we that we express over here, right. This is something each reader level scholar has to wrestle with when entering the body of literature, even the Tibetans didn't categorically accept Indian Buddhism without adapting it to their culture. For example, yeah, I remember when I researched this, this was really interesting. on the Hot hills of Indian Buddhism, right then the India like in May 118 120 degrees, where it gets hot as hell. were supplemented with a cold house of Tibetan Buddhism where it gets cold as hell. The Buddha scholar Carl Becker writes, quote, The important point here is that the Tibetans, like the Chinese before them did not adapt, adopt, I should say Buddhism in its entirety, merely out of political or aesthetic considerations. They accepted Buddhism insofar as it clarified processes that they already knew. And as it illustrated new truths that they have not yet verbalized, and this is if, if you've traveled to Asian cultures, this is like 20 years ago, maybe even longer. I spent six months traveling throughout all of Asia 15 different countries. And I was so struck by how different Buddhism was from Nepal, India, Tibet, and then Malaysia, Thailand, Burma, Vietnam. I mean, the way it's as if you know, the fluidity, the adaptability of the Buddhist thing is just so fascinating. It's like water flowing into particular container. And it was astounding to see how different the expression of the Buddhist tradition was. And this is actually what's taking place in the West. And I mean, I think that one of the, or two of the principal kind of cultural containers are science and psychology. Trungpa Rinpoche definitely understood this one he worked so often using psychological language, when he talked about enlightenment is ultimate sanity for one reason and he founded the transport or the

what's it called?

The transpersonal in the contemplative psychology department and aerobic University, and he was acutely aware of the strength of the psychological languaging. To do that, the Dalai Lama ceases equally as this means you Rinpoche and others in turn science. And so I think this is one of the reasons why Buddhism has been, so to speak, very successful in being accepted in the West, is because psychologists can definitely relate to it a lot of them anyway. And a number of open minded scientists can also really relate. On a personal note, my conviction about the importance of presenting these remarkable teachings is born from glimpses of experience. I've been meditating for 35 years long time, and have completed the traditional view retreat. I've engaged in most of the practices presented below at this point, pretty much all of them under the guidance of some of the greatest masters in Tibetan Buddhism, I really I think there's so it's so true, the ones I've studied, and a number of which are included in part three of this book. I'm still a beginner I'm always a beginner. But spending so much time penetrating the mysteries of my own mind has shown me the truth of these mind bending Bardo teachings. And so this is important. We discussed this in the preparing die program this week, is this critical notion of the different types of knowledge acquisition and valid cognition? Basically, the four peripheral types I'm just going to mention these very briefly because they are important. This comes from that what's called the pramana literature which you'll find not only in Buddhism and Hinduism, schools of valid cognition, so you have direct valid cognition, which is I'll believe it when I see it, sensory inferential valid cognition, this is basically logic reasoning, deduction. yogic direct, valid cognition, this is perhaps the most interesting one for us, which is where you can have through your meditation practices. The experiences now can we say that they're completely concordant? And or I should say, Can Gordon completely synonymous or isomorphic with what happens in the death process? No, we can't quite say that. But they're powerfully concordant. They're very extraordinarily similar. And so therefore, the real conviction, at least for me comes from the practices that are designed to simulate an entire death process. And the Buddhist tradition is replete, in fact, with meditations that do that. Oh, yeah, the fourth one, this is the most interesting one for material like this, which is actually not part of valid cognition, but it's worth throwing into the mix. This is what's called the proof of hidden meaning, which is where if you can't access the truth of a particular doctrine, teaching, whatever for yourself, you assess the character of the veracity of the person who seems to profess that truth. And this may seem like softest and facile but we subscribe to this all the time, right? We rely on proof of hidden meaning all the time when we capitulate to what the scientists tell us. I mean, I've never seen them a molecule I've never seen a quark. I've never seen a black hole. But these are amazing people who do amazing amount of study and work who have the lenses both inferential and direct, to unearth these particular dimensions of so called physical reality. And this is the great power of the scientific method. So the proven hidden meaning. This is where a lot of these teachings come from. They come from realize masters who have such lucidity, such awakening, that they go through these particular states with complete awareness, complete utter lucidity. Well, that's a small digression, but I think it's worth it. Most of what follows can be proven by each of us if we're willing to make these discoveries for ourselves. My conviction is also reinforced by 20 years of experience with many masters in India, Tibet and Nepal. Yeah, this is a big deal for me as well. These extraordinary individuals display an utter fearlessness around death. That is as contagious as it's awe inspiring. They're absolutely unshakable. I marveled at the confidence, almost playfulness they bring to the formidable topic of debt, they know something we doubt, but this is a really big deal for me, teacher after teacher that I interviewed specifically for this book. Every single one of them just conveyed this extraordinary sense of unflappable, tranquility around this topic that was super impressive for me. And the following pages, I hope to convey some of what they know. through the lens of my own understanding I will share with this gentle that fearless tradition is offered is a cherished gift to humanity. Okay, cool. All right. Why did I write this book? Good question. 15 years ago? Oh, yeah. 15 years ago, the director at this point 25 years ago, the director of my meditation center. This was in Denver when I was still living in Denver. Asked me to teach a class on the Bardot's on death. I knew enough to realize the complexity of the Bardot's so I asked him to prepare. As I'm prone to do again, reading every single book in print as I still continue to do if it comes out, I read it. Attending every seminar and doing the meditations associated with death. I dove into it in a huge way. Six months into my study I received a phone call that would change my life. And it really did this experience really did change me. A woman from rural Colorado if you ever I don't know if you've been to Colorado, but you go a little bit east of the front range which is where I live near Boulder and urine in serious ranch country. I mean there it gets it gets pretty desolate pretty remote as it does also in the high country little bit like where I'm at now. So my call got she got my number from the meditation center and call me in a state of panic. her beloved husband of 40 years is dying, but doctor said he only had a few days left to live. Susan had no idea what to do and it was beside herself. She told me that while neither she nor her, or husband had much faith in religion, they shared an interest in Buddhism. Susan heard that I was an expert on the Buddha's views of death like Not quite. I read some books but was far from an authority. The problem was there were no experts in the area. Basically. No one but me right. So I listened to a heartbreaking story we had we had I probably talked to her every day for maybe five or six days and then her husband died. She spoke at the beautiful years together and her desperation and not knowing how to help him in his greatest hour of need. Over the next few days, we spent many hours on the phone between calls I crammed information from my books. I was like speed reading right? Then tried to convey with some semblance of confidence, don't know how much I help but she kept calling because there was no one else and I kept picking up the phone. As she spoke she would often whisper something that struck me like a thunderbolt that still does I should have prepared earlier I should have prepared earlier. Just this sense of regret. Just like why why did I wait so long? Why did why did I wait so long to get ready. Susan's husband died within a few days we lost contact but I have never forgotten her a heart ache and her remorse of not being prepared. Before talking to her I had an intellectual interest in death because this stuff is so bloody interesting, right? It's complex. It's there we say sophisticated. I'm going to stop is really beefy intellectually. That's what initially interested me. It's like Man, this is a really great complicated stuff. After her call, I began to pull these teachings off the page and into my heart. I was so moved by her regret that I resolved to do whatever I could to prevent others from experiencing her pain and to prepare for my own death. This book is the product of that result. And that results continues. It's why I'm up here doing what I'm doing. It's why we launched this preparing to die program. I still am inspired profoundly by this experience that happens and 25 years ago she was in a heap of hurt in this is lack of preparation thing just really slammed me. But Renaissance statesman Montaigne wrote Yeah, this is good, man come and they go and they track and lead dance and never worried about death. All well and good. Yeah, when death comes to them, their wives, their children, their friends, catching them unawares and unprepared then what storms of passion overwhelm them what cries with fury? What despair still, to begin depriving depth of its greatest advantage over us, let us adapt away clean contrary to that common one, let us deprive death of its strangeness. This in itself is really interesting, right? Because remember the word for meditation, right? translated in Tibetan, to become familiar with,

to become familiar with so the whole notion of a Bardo barley yoga as a meditation is to become familiar with that. At the level of a pretty sophisticated map, the Bardo teachings themselves, that hopefully can inspire one to engage and enter the territory themselves. Do the meditations and then of course, who the meditation that is, we'll see is fundamentally forced upon us when we die. Let us frequent it, let us get used to it. Let us have nothing more often in mind than death, right? The Christian notion of memento mori we do not know where death awaits us. So let us wait for it everywhere. To practice death is to practice freedom. A man or woman right, you have learned how to die. As unlearned how to be a slave app. I've been at the side of many who have died and I still am I still work pretty regularly with those who are transitioning and it's one of the great honors of my life. I have to say nothing keeps me more in resonance. Nothing keeps me more on track. Nothing keeps me from getting distracted from straying nothing focuses me more than the ongoing stuck just in being with those who are transitioning. So on one level is I guess the example just getting a certain sense, because it's absolutely positively serves me like what's really important. What am I doing with life? Look how bloody short this thing is? What can I do to help myself and others? I've been at the side of many who have died from my own loved ones to spiritual friends to strangers who have become my friends. For the past eight years at this point, a lot more than that. 20 years I presented a series of seminars on the Tibetan views of death and beyond and written numerous articles. The Tibetan teachings and meditations associated with him have instilled a conviction, absolute confidence that enables me to enter end of life situations with ease. I'm no longer afraid of death, nor swayed by the painful events that surrounded the information and the following pages have given to me the certitude. My experience and being around death has strengthened it and the blessings of my teachers have given me the confidence to share it. Okay, well, I'd be able to get through this intro Awesome. How to use the book. This book is a comprehensive reference manual and Encyclopedia of death. Yeah, sort of. Let me be a little bit presumptuous, but it's the best I could do at the time. The subject matter is given in a condensed and direct style, which accords with a concentrated intensity, you've experienced a death. It's actually one of the things I'm contemplating now is you know, I finished the series of books. And one of the things I'm very actively thinking about doing is taking all the material that I've worked with and gathered ever since writing this book, and all the stuff that was left out of this book, and actually starting another series, one entire book, probably around the same length for each one of the Bardot's with every conceivable bit of information that I've gathered, so this is the possibility if I live long enough to complete it. It's a gathering of information you can turn to when you need it the most. That's why he structured in this particular way, what to do before, during and after for self another. This book does not offer many personal stories and anecdotes that while helpful, making a text more readable can seem superfluous in times of need. The theoretical aspects of the Bartos which are formidable and extensive, are beyond the scope of this present volume. That's one reason I'm thinking about writing these other I think three books. The aim here is to be simple and practical. Even though the material is concentrated, I have worked to make it as user friendly and accessible as possible. Realize that few people in this busy age have time to read a tunnel the size from cover to cover. Just as people today are too busy and don't have the time to die mindfully. Right? Isn't this so true, right? Death is so inconvenient like, like freak, man, I don't have time to die. What am I supposed to fit in into my schedule? Right? But being unprepared is even more inconvenient. To make this book more accessible. It's divided into two principal parts spiritual and then practical prep. Each of these is further divided into what to do before, during and after. And then similarly further divided into what to do for yourself and others. That's about as comprehensive I think as you can get. This provides a framework that can be easily referenced during any stage of the dying and rebirth process. Final section contains heart advice from the Tibetan masters actively teaching in the West. pearls of wisdom to take refuge in during doubt. That was probably my favorite part. Having the ability to interview these 20 amazing individuals. I remember every single one of those each section is clearly defined to help you find the information you need and I've been really blessed to have had people share with me caregivers and whatnot. That is people in fact we're transitioning. You know I get these really sweet notes from people saying yeah, it was just it was really very helpful that people we could go right to this point. What do we do here? What do we do here? The table of contents the index and the way it's structured people, people could go right to exactly what they're looking for. The material is cross cross referenced and thoroughly indexed to help you locate other parts of the board can relate to your interests. There are a number of Sanskrit and Tibetan words that are defined on their first occurrence for any unfamiliar term, you can check its first entry in the index which will also direct you to its definition. Yeah, so I hate to run this dance between you know, do I make the scholarly you know, do I do I make it whatever? And I just kept coming back over and over and over is how, how can I pare this down, to make it as practical as applicable as beneficial as I possibly can? They're there are a number of different ways to read this book. If you're interested in what to do for yourself read that section or those sections interested in what to do for others. Then refer those some people are interested in spiritual preparation others in the practical aspects the beginning of each section is more general exoteric then progresses into increasingly specific and esoteric material. If you bogged down in the litany of practices presented in the section then skim or skip to the next section. So not exactly a lot of running commentary I can make on this. This is pretty explanatory. Part One and spiritual preparation part three heart advice are specifically directed to Buddhists. Most of part two on practical preparations is directed to anyone interested in that this is what I learned the most. This is what I both interviewed and had the opportunity to have these experts come in and contribute this stuff and in many ways this was like this is one of the most interesting parts for me because a lot of the stuff the practical stuff I was not familiar with, until I started doing the homework to write this book. I have attempted to clarify terms and offer suggestions for further reading and the endnotes selected bibliography is also provided. Okay, last section and then we can chat about this. And then as we get into it again, a lot more overt commentary coming up. This is again somewhat self explanatory, so not much I can add. The key to smoothly negotiating the difficulties of death is familiarity, right so there's there's that term the Tibetan is again G O M. gone back to Word for meditation, to become familiar with. This book is based on the seminars I have taught in which we practice the meditations discussed below as a way to become familiar with death by becoming familiar with our mind. Mind and Heart by the way, remember, every time the word mind is used here, remember in Sanskrit and Pali took that same word heart minds the same. We visited his funeral homes crematoriums we took walks in cemeteries and went to anatomy labs to spend time with corpses. We took the mystery and therefore much of the misery out of death by spending time with it. I don't know if you've been to an anatomy lab lately, but it's a pretty interesting thing to do, actually. During your seminars. I observed the initial resistance to the meditations and the field trips. Participants stepped into the cadaver lab with trepidation and they stepped into their own minds and meditation with similar apprehension. They were they were nervous because they didn't know what to expect. When that's what all anxiety and fear is about right virtually synonymous with the unknown. We're always anxious and afraid of what we don't know. But they trusted me because I had been to these external and internal places before. When they walk out of the anatomy lab or the funeral of warmth, a funeral home or a long meditation session, I saw how much they'd open and relaxed.

Through the process of familiarity. They discovered that while death may not be easy, is also no big deal. They learn how to smile at that. And that was the other thing that that inspired me to go after reading this book was because I been doing this for a number of years. And some of the courses were long. I mean, we did one course it was 40 weeks, the way I take that back sorry, to 10 Weak sections. Yeah, so 26 And by the end of this thing, it was just remarkable the difference between the way people were before they started it and when we ended the course if one is unprepared, dealing with the details and intensity of death, the emotional impact preparing for the funeral, handling friends and loved ones dealing with medical and legal issues. Is like preparing for a big wedding in one day. It's overwhelming. You know this if you've been involved with this. It's intense. So much is coming at you so fast. You can't you can't you just can't take it in. If you deal with some of the details now and the intensity now you kind of relax to the time of death and relaxation is we'll see over and over. The best number one instruction for how to die. Relaxation is born from familiarity. You may find yourself referring to this guidebook when the crunch of death is upon you but reading it in advance of this deadline will help you prepare. So y'all read Pooja Rinpoche summarizes the aspiration of his book. So here's the deal with soggy Rinpoche I probably shouldn't make this little kind of comments slash disclaimer at the outset. He obviously or you may or may not know, he fell into pretty major disrepute, you know, pretty massive scandal with his organization rigpa that basically tanked the whole thing but before he before he wants to sell this book, you know, The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying is it's an amazing book. It still remains an amazing book. And I remember very clearly what when Pema children was teaching on the stuff I was, I was able to have access to these recordings, was turned out to be a book that she just published this year on the topic. Somebody kind of pressed her a little bit on this as well. And my response is exactly the same as her somebody said, Well, you know, how can you use your rubber Jay stop after what he did? Well, it's like I respond the way she responds you know, he, he really spoke the truth. This is very early in his career when he was setting foot in the West. And I still maintain to this day that it's one of it's one of the top five best books on the Bardo still out there. And so I'm not going to act as an apologist on his behalf. I think you know what happens as far as I can tell from people from the inside pretty inexcusable. But this just, I think, to me reveals the complexity of the human condition. And those of you who work with me at all realize the amazing, critical important difference between waking up and growing up. You can be pretty evolved, so to speak relative, I wouldn't say relative, but you can be pretty evolved on the waking up end of things, which is what the East specializes in, and still be developmentally arrested. And that's where all the problems start a difference between states and structures. of consciousness. So that's my riff on why I probably wouldn't go back through and take this out. I might add a disclaimer like this if I was to do another edition, but I still maintain that his insights around this topic are cogent and helpful. It is crucial now that in the light and vision of death and dying should be introduced throughout the world at all levels of education. Children should not be protected from death, but introduced while young to the true nature of death, and what they can learn from it. Why not introduce this vision in its simplest form to all age groups, knowledge about death, about how to help the dying, and about the spiritual nature of death and dying should be made available to all levels of society. It should be taught in depth in with real imagination in schools and colleges and universities of all kinds. Especially most importantly, it should be available in teaching hospitals to nurses and doctors, who will look after the dying knew so much responsibility to them. Unfortunately, to the best of my ability that's still not happening in most medical institutions. They still look at death as a defeat, and they do whatever they can including the appropriately named artificial life support instead of authentic death they elect for artificial life. So I still think there's a long way to go on that department. But I'm perhaps that's enough for this evening, especially since the light is fading here and my dwelling Mountain Center kind of Kevin room. So any questions or comments, offerings, contributions, it doesn't have to be a question. It can be something that either speaks to you tweaks you or something you may just simply want to say something about me to see if there's anything here

perhaps it's my ego speaking from 10 But I really want to be aware of and thoroughly in through the process of death and beyond. Yes, conscious dying. Do you really think we can stay fully personally unconscious through this whole process? Yes. It depends on your level of lucidity depends on your ability to differentiate from the surface structures the surface chop of your mind. And dispassionately witness the whole dissolution process from a stance that isn't affected by it is absolutely possible. I think that perhaps lucid dreaming is a major practice and preparing to be able to do that you bet spot on 100%. Thank you for addressing this fascinating topic. Yeah, I mean, this is one major reason why, especially Dream Yoga, right, which goes beyond lucid dreaming came about when I interviewed Campbell Carter, it is monastery through this book. He said he goes Dream Yoga came about sensibly as a way to prepare for that. And so that's another reason you know, like the natural whole nightclub thing all the natural meditations liminal. Dreaming lucid dreaming, dreaming about sleep yoga. absolutely, positively. Uber helpful in terms of preparing for the end of life. Okay, Kara. Go ahead. Unmute yourself. Thanks. Hi, Andrew.

Question and they just some comments because I got this book, the day after my husband passed away from a shaman I want you to know. And, yeah, because we wanted to do some work with him. But um, just that, um, if anyone's interested, you know, Castaneda has instructions on lucid dreaming I just identical to the ones in the Tibetan tradition. And so I wasn't aware of the Tibetan tradition, but, you know, my husband and I had long been reading Castaneda and like, in the year before he died he had his first lucid dream because he was so intent on seeing his hand and it was so exciting the day that it finally happened to him and didn't happen to me until after he died. But um, but so the thing about the death was that I was able to be in bed with him for five days and just be there the whole time, which was so glorious, and but then they give you four hours with the body. Yeah. And then you're ushered up, and I said, No, I'm not I want to watch the body. with you because I loved this nurse that was with him. This guy Patrick was amazing. I said, Patrick, come on, let's do it together. He's in the hospital got freaked out. I don't know what they thought I was gonna do like jump in the bag, but they're like you think you want to see this but you don't I'm like, No, I've been through the whole process and I do want to see it. And not just that. The funeral home the ashes. didn't they didn't send me the letter until they'd already incinerated him because they don't think you want to be there while they're being fed into the front. Yeah, I want to see everything right. It's so odd to me, and how people aren't interested in this topic. And so I guess my question is, there's a waking dream, the nighttime dream, and then the dream at the end of time, right. But it occurred to me recently, and I got scared. I'm like, wait, the dream at the end of time, I always thought so the dream at the end of time is just another dream. Right? Is that the Bardo, is that another? Between rigpa and like, it's just another illusion?

Yeah. Ah, yeah. It's just another illusion. It's, you know, dream. Remember, my languaging dream is just code language, for manifestation of mind. And so you're always in a dream, one or one kind of dream or another,

always until you're not right. Or no. Well, then

you're just transitioning. It's like It's like nested dolls. It's like those Russian bots. But

isn't there I mean, when you go to when you say, Okay, I just want to aim for sukawati Like I've had enough. It's a comedy. Then another, just another dream, right?

Well, again, it depends on how you use that term. You know, if you're talking you can use dream in a pejorative sense as delusion and that like when we talked about the nighttime dream and that respect, then it's actually referred to as the double delusion. And so depending on the find the word dream, it can either be a pejorative negative thing and dismissive like we say on the west. Colloquially, it's just you know, oh, don't worry about it. It's just a dream.

So it's a trick. It's like the bodhisattva vow to keep coming back until everybody's woken up. Is that just a way to blur the fact that we don't really have a choice and we're always in one dream or another? I thought that was a that when you were really awakened, you got to then

choose, you can choose Yeah, but the choice is not to be in another dream. Well, you're not you're no longer in the nightmare. That's the difference. You're no longer in the nightmare, but you're always in a dream. But again, this is where you have to you just have to have a deeper understanding of dream. I mean, read if you haven't read the Manduka will punish ya, which is one of the key core potshots where this whole notion of reality being like a dream really started to gain traction. And that's what the book around me what is the right the awakened one. So it really requires a deep understanding of what dream actually means. And so if you haven't read my book, dreams of light, I tried to go into that a little bit more in that book, right. But the important point is, it's all either the the radiance, the shine, the glow of the mind, that's when the the manifest appearance comes from awakens dances. That's when you're actually in again using Bardo. Dermatol language you never you're in the Bardo. Dermatol you actually never leave it. And so then everything is seen from that particular perspective. But if we don't have oh,

okay, okay. That makes more sense to me. So that's another that's a translation of Ric buzz of the Bardo.

Okay. It's another way to talk about requests just reply associated with a Bardot's thing.

Okay, okay. That makes me feel a little better. Because I was like, Wait, it's just another dream and then a dream. And anyway,

yeah, again, when you say again, when you say well, it's just a dream and a dream. Well, if you realize a dream is just mine, then there's nothing but mind. Right? So please, you can go that's not conscious. That's not right. So it sounds it's just usage of the term in a particular context that transcends its normal usage. Right. Okay. Thank you nobody ideas, you know it when you're using it in the sense that I'm picking up that's that's the kind of a nightmare aspect of the of the dream. And the dream is actually not recognized for what

right so the instant of lucidity right that moment, then the dream becomes something completely different.

Exactly what well said it becomes something completely different.

It's not it then a wedge between you and right it's actually an opening.

Exactly well said. And then also then you don't have to worry about issues of control and choice because you have choice at that point. When it's not looted. You don't have choice, then you're just buffeted around by saying external reality. But when you make a moment of resilience, it and liberation are the same thing. Recognition and liberation are simultaneous, exactly. So that that applies to the dream at the end of time. That's where that phrase comes from, but it also applies to the natural dream as well. So you got it.

So recognition in the dream at the end of time in the Bardot's is just like waking up in a lucid dream, okay,

but even more but even more impactful because then instead of just controlling what you do in the dream, you can control your next your next life, you can control the form that you take. You can shape your mind into any particular form that you deem to be of benefit for self another. And then you know, then the whole delight, the dance of the joy of the whole thing really kicks in. Okay, okay. Cool. All right, Dominica? Hi, dear. Unmute yourself.

I am okay. You can hear me. Okay. Hi. Um, so, you know, talking about all this stuff is really like it's beyond our comprehension, really, in terms of our small rational consciousness is kind of like you know, talking about a fourth dimension or something like that is sort of how I see it and ultimately would be experiential. When hopefully, hopefully when, you know, we we have that moment of recognition. But I struggle a little bit with you know, again, like trying to conceptualize this the between the dream of our so called when life versus what the experience that our consciousness projects when we are dreaming or when we are in the Bardo, I've read again and again, that it's a sort of false view of solipsism to consider them truly equivalent to regard the experience that we have VR senses during waking life as that there's like nothing out there, that it truly is exactly the same as a dream that they're very similar, but they're not actually the same. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that, and if you can speak to that.

Well, absolutely. Yeah. It's definitely not solipsistic. You know there is something out there beyond you and so that while there are a tremendous array of similarities between the nighttime dream the waking dream, which is so called waking life and the dream at the end of time, there also are differences that mean there are different colorings or states of consciousness. And so in that respect, they do have some differences, like, for instance, in the so called waking dream that were shared and right now, everything that's taking place is still of the nature of mind. It's mentation, but it isn't solipsistic like my nighttime dream, my nighttime dream can in fact be solipsistic. is just my mind period, nothing else. This obviously doesn't work that way. There is something out there Dominica, but it's just not physical. It's still made of mental stuff. In the same thing with with the Bardo. There's there's definitely something beyond your event horizon, but it's not physical. That's the key. It's all made of the same stuff. It's just not material. So this is not particularly easy for us raised in a dualistic materialistic view, because we're just we're inculcated, literally into a cult of materialism and it's really difficult to to shape shift out of this. So this is where you know some if you've been listening to some of the stuff in terms of resources here, that I'm really into Bernardo kastrup. 's work these days. And so if you haven't become familiar with his stuff, I really recommend it because he brings a lot of academic scholarly and scientific traction to this idealistic view. And some of it is a little bit heavy lifting for people but it's really helpful to understand the deconstruction of materialism and physicalism because without that, a vast majority of what these traditions profess is in fact, like you're saying, you struggle with it, because the struggle is revelatory of the inculcation. We all have in a dualistic in their in materialistic view. This stuff just does not equate with that type of view. So it's worth it's worth struggling with, it's worth wrestling with and then using that all as a platform to go into your meditations is the most important thing. So you start to see these things very directly for yourself. Like I mentioned earlier that whole yogic direct valid cognition you actually experience states of mind and meditation where you realize oh, my gosh, it really is there's nothing but awareness slash mind. So I'll pause for a second to see if that's hitting your sweet spot, and if not direct me, elsewhere.

Yeah, could you repeat the name of that author? I didn't quite catch it.

Last name is K s. T R up kastrup

K s t u RP.

Dr. Up. If you listen to you know this, this podcast platform that I ping on every once in a while called Edge of mind. I have I have two podcasts with Bernardo I know a lot of it we've become friends. He's presented as some science stuff that I've invited him into. And the guys the guys he's like a modern day Nagarjuna. He's amazing, a tremendous intellect. And he derives his insights purely through logic, reasoning and rationality, which is amazing. So I recommend it I recommend plowing he has an I think 11 books. And then I don't know, hundreds of hours online. I really recommend. He has a free course you'll find it on YouTube. It's a six part course. Maybe a total of seven hours on put up by his foundation, all the Sencha that puts forth his view of analytic idealism. I strongly recommend you give it a crack. Because it's the type of of work that if you really start to let it soak into you, it changes everything in a certain way. saying exactly the same thing that the non dual wisdom traditions are saying. I mean, that's why there's a lot of cross pollination between views in the non dualistic wisdom wars, but the gift is presented in a western medium. Using science and neuroscience and physics and in academic approaches that for a lot of Westerners really works for me. I love it. I think the guy's amazing. So if you want to really explain this in a way that that I mean, first of all, it really helps you understand what happens when you die. I mean, his view around death is completely resonant with with non dual traditions as well. So there's a ton more than that. I'm happy to run with this anywhere you want but it's just a really, really big topic. But the struggling wrestling match that you're feeling is in fact, you coming up against the limits of materialism, which is the absolute positive wrong view, and then high trying to fit in this seemingly radical new view of mind only into that particular framework, and that's the struggle and that's the friction that creates the pearl that's the rub. So don't be afraid of that. Heat, right? Just just jump into that stuff and really explore it. So there's lots more I can say, this is a really, really big topic, but that's one initial salvo. Okay, yeah.

Thank you. Yeah.

Welcome. The other person by the way, in fact, this might be worth listening to is Swami Satyananda. He's I had the good fortune to interview him as well. And he did he actually hosted Bernardo for a podcast not that long ago. And so the conversation that he had with Bernardo from an invited Vedantic point of view is also really interesting. So Bernardo has, he has one of the richest online presences of anybody I know. I mean, there must be 200 podcasts out there. I mean, the guy must be doing a podcast at night, which is great. I mean, he's really generous and incredibly prolific with the stuff that he riffs on and I recommend his work pretty highly. He's kind of a rockstar. Okay, cool. Hey, Kimber.

Hello. Thank you so much. I'm in the PDP course as well. And it's so timely for me, um, some people may remember I've mentioned this before that I have terminal breast cancer. And my time horizon is probably one to two years at this point. So this is my full time job, your course and studying the book and preparing so thank you. But I wanted to I wanted to mention that was a little bit of my experience with with my doctors were right now as I'm going through this. So one option has failed. And the kind of juggernaut of Western medicine and my hospital and my team has kind of automatically assumed that I'm going to go for plan be the next option, without really pausing to say, is that the right thing for you? What's your quality of life going to be like? How long will this give you? What are the side effects? Have you thought about it? None of these questions have been raised and I've actually had to say, timeout. Let's slow down and go through all these questions. Meanwhile, there were you know, going through insurance and ordering medication setting me up with the pharmacist and I'm saying slow down everybody. Yeah. So and I feel like I'm a very educated, you know, patient. And even with my background and my long experience with cancer, I am feeling a struggle to get my team to slow down and listen to me, you know, evaluate whether I even want treatment or whether it's time to stop Yeah, so just wanted to make that comment.

I really appreciate it Kimber and thank you for your for your openness, your honesty, your transparency, my heart goes out to you. Do you have like, like, advisors of people that can come with you to these positions that can also help implement your your approaches and your strategies?

I do yeah, I've I have you know, my health care proxy my advanced practice my DNR all the paperwork in place and I have personal comes with me, and my team is great. I don't want to knock the team. It's just that their momentum is on the next treatment. Absolutely. Yeah, there's no there's no kind of window. There's no Bardo, essentially between one treatment to the next to pause and say, How are you doing? What are you thinking?

Yeah, yeah, I hate to say this, but it's so unbelievably common. I mean, a dear friend of mine, three years ago was diagnosed with glioblastoma. And he, he went through the brain surgery thing. And the cert and everybody was like in and behind him and supportive of him until he said you know, he said, Well, you need another brain surgery and he said, No. And so the minute the minute he basically refused their godlike decrees, they wouldn't say they turned on him, but they completely sidelined him, and they they just put them off to the side. And so it's a tragedy of the mechanistic approach of the Western medical machine. When it comes to treatment, especially around the end of life. Same thing with a friend of mine 200 yards from where I live, you know, younger than me by 15 years. Wonderful family diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. And the year half later, he was dead. And he went through exactly the same type of thing. It's just a bloody nightmare. And so therefore, arming yourself with as much conviction as you can from your own side. Understanding what's really important to you taking control educating yourself because as you know, you know, this whole business is as much art and sometimes it's bad art, as it is science and a lot of these times people I mean, they're doing their best I'm not saying they're evil people, they're doing their best, but they're so their bandwidth is so limited. That when it whenever anybody challenges, the bandwidth is a little bit like what Carlos Kara was talking about with her husband and wanting to be with the body. This is why when my father died, I didn't call the funeral home for like 16 hours. Because I knew the minute I did that, then the whole operation comes into play and so if you understand your rights, you understand what you can do, to educate yourself like you're doing, and you're not afraid to go toe to toe with these people and assert yourself with people that can be at your side. I mean, this is why I wrote the practical aspects of this book. It's a really difficult situation under any conditions, circumstances, but if you don't come in prepared this way, it's it's overwhelming. Because then you as you know, you feel like you have to capitulate to the high priests, right, you know, the priests and white jackets with stethoscopes.

I'm sorry. That's a checklist and they've got the plan.

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes that plan just like, you know, may not be your plan. And this is where what you're doing is is so the right thing. It's exactly everything that I would be doing. And then not being afraid to just step back and pause. And that just gets swept up in the undertow of this vast machine. So I mean, I say this with tremendous love and respect for all my colleagues. A lot of my friends are wonderful surgeons and doctors and they work in this field and they're amazing people, but their blind spots with everybody and so you know, to whatever extent we can educate ourselves and go in armed with the knowledge and skill set, boy, we're going to just be so much better off but it's really thank you so much for for being with us. Thank you for sharing your story, and anything we can do to help you and your journey. That's what we're here for. Don't be shy to call

you very much. Appreciate it.

Yeah. Thank you. Very appreciate it. Hey, Jonathan.

Hi, Andrew. I have a question about the four kinds of knowledge and this is something that came up in preparing to die of course, which I'm also attending, and it's this. One is intuition, a form of knowledge. And the reason I asked this is because I have certain kinds of intuitions or senses that a sense that certain things that we're covering are true. I can't really explain it. Yeah, I wouldn't describe it as as yogic direct, valid, Some either, Right. I'm wondering exactly where that fits in because the conviction is pretty strong. but I don't necessarily have any direct experience of it.

Yeah, that's a good one, you know, these, these forms, especially the yogic direct value cognition. annularity and gradations. And so these intuitions, literally the capacity I like almost like to play on Word to become in tune with the phenomenal world I mean that these are instances in my experience. When we open using Barnardos language, the dissociative contraction, temporarily releases and relaxes and then there's some kind of contact with reality. And it is absolutely completely a valid form of knowledge acquisition and what I recommend with those and you're probably already doing it is paying deep allegiance to those insights and resting in the first thought, best thought quality which means when you first have these intuitions, rest, rest with the conviction of the authenticity of that intuition. without referring it to the usual rational, logical default around Oh, I don't that may not have been met or whatever. And so, you know, this is this is where shamans and mystics and psychics in the best sense of the term this is a little bit how they roll. You know, they're just they're more open and more in contact. And so they have they have literally ways of perceiving dare we say sigh phenomena, ESP. They develop heightened sense of perception that are that are a little bit outside of the normal bounds and once we're familiar with it, we can pay homage to it, cultivate it. I find that the more I do that, the more those intuitions start to become available to me. And when you're, you know, having an interview with a meditation master. I mean, I've, again, I've been very blessed to have these. They just they're so open. They're so able to just tune into this thing and then tune into you. I mean, I've been with people who, clearly within a couple of minutes knew more about me than I knew about myself, because they were just so open and they develop these you know, the tradition. There's great literature here they talk about the different types of the called the divine eyes, the five types of eyes, that are associated with super cognition, when a person basically just opened themselves to these literally extrasensory ways of perceiving. And those are extraordinarily valid ways. In fact, in many ways, they're, they're more valid, they're more in tune. So whether that slots in categorically to yogic direct valid cognition, to some extent, yeah, but we don't have to, we don't have to shrink everything into that particular format. There's, there's just very honorable, legitimate polyphasic ways of knowing that don't subscribe to Western shrink wrap ways of knowledge acquisition. So for me you know, I grew up in an academic intellectual household where the intellect was highly valued. And so for many, many years, that's where I put all my eggs in that particular basket until I realized the raging limitations of that that how we can colonize other forms of knowledge acquisition and dominate, and then become really under in the service of ego. And so therefore, I work more and more with cultivating my own intuition, my own empathy, my own heartfelt connectivity to the world that goes beyond traditional intellectual means. I still roll in that world I love it. It's a very powerful way of looking at things and communicating with others. But I even asked Bernard when I interviewed him, I said, you know, how far can the intellect take you on this journey? And he basically took extraordinary credit. He said, you know, not that far. You know, it's amazing. And this is from one of the great intellects of the age. So I saw one another reason I really appreciate him. So it's a very powerful tool, but what you're cultivating honestly is, you know, putting had in harmony with heart, and then joining those two together and operating with both of those is, is part of our skill. Set. So I'm not just saying one, or augmenting one. It's helpful to in an integral way to put them both in perspective and realize how they relate to each other. And, you know, work with whatever it means we have so I'm not sure I'm exactly answering what your question is, but that's what's coming to mind.

That's really helpful actually. What, what it makes me think of is, is this this focus on being open, as you say, actually, is allowing you just to be that without actually focusing too much on the experience, you know, sort of getting ahead of myself and thinking there's something there's something not there that I need to get also, like the big experience, as opposed to just being open to whatever is what I'm experiencing

right now. Yeah, that's really well said and you may find that if you do that, you will find that to be the big experience. So if we, if we keep looking for these so called breakthroughs, hurrahs, they happen, but the reason they seem to be arising or whatnot is only because of of proceeding state of mind prior to those openings, right. And so they seem to have kind of ecstatic dimensions. But that's only in terms of contrast, it's only the opening is directly ecstatic. up directly proportional the ecstasy is directly proportional to the preceding level of agony, the contraction and so what you're talking to what you said at the end is the most important thing is literally the they talk about it as ordinary mind, tamagi shape and Tibetan that's that's the mind that actually perceives reality. And it is it it literally is extra ordinary. And so if we keep looking for Hollywood type productions, we actually may be missing what we're with right in front of us all the time. And that's the ultimate kicker a little bit beyond the scope of what we can talk about here. But that's the ultimate kicker is that what we are looking for? is already 100% Right in front of us. Right now. We just don't believe it because we're not trained to see the world in this way. We're trained in so many different ways to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Well, that's guaranteeing your misery. So that's a little bit beyond the scope of it. But the fundamental thing is just putting the exclamation point on what you said at the end, to just open yourself to the miracle and the majesty of the moment. And then you realize you don't have to have any particular special experience to be free. I mean, you just have to open to what's already here and that's it. I mean, really, that's it. That's it. I trust you know, take a long time till we finally come around to really buying it and believing it. But it's it's so obvious. We don't see it so simple. We don't believe it so easy. We don't trust it right in front of us. So trust your intuitions, my friends, you're on it. Thank you, Jonathan. Let me just see if there's anything here and then that may be enough for today

yeah, a nice thank you and for sharing that. Just going through and see if I'm missing anything I need to run comment on. Yeah, thank you, everybody, for sharing these wonderful thoughts. Cool. Okay. So I will see you Bernardo. cast off all that. I like that. Yeah. Cast off. Those he's a cast off of materialism. kastrup Check them out. You're gonna love this guy. So those of you who were nightclub members, you know what we're doing around the club, all kinds of things happening every week. The book study thing. We'll be back in two weeks. For another round. It's gonna take us a while to get through this book, but there's no rush. And all my PDP friends, I'll see you next week at the usual Actually no, I'll see you next Friday. Not next Wednesday, because I'm up here next Monday doing my thing. But much love to everybody. Great to see everybody. Thank you, Alyssa for helping us. And to whatever extent dedication of merit may or may not mean anything to you, we gather what we've done here and we send it out to all sentient beings who may need it but until then, take care of yourself. Like my friend Lester Holt says Lester Holt doesn't know he's my friend, but he's my friend. Like Lester Holt says every night, take care of yourself and each other. I like that. That's actually pretty good. Okay, everybody Dow. recording stopped