Ep #2: Pitches That Piss Off Podcasters ft Yevgeniya (Gigi) Davarashvili

11:19PM Feb 20, 2023

Speakers:

Mai-kee Tsang

Yevgeniya Davarashvili

Keywords:

pitch

podcast

gigi

people

write

host

guest

bit

email

subject line

business

client

person

book

topics

hear

understand

agencies

share

feel

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this session for pitchers that piss off podcasters. So this is our Live series that decided to host after receiving some not so wonderful pitches as a podcaster. Myself. And when I started sharing this experience, I really, I really found that my peers who are also podcasters, like Gigi felt the same way. And I was like, what if we actually had a space where we can have these conversations, where we can actually talk about, you know, where people are missing the mark, and it's not, it's not just a full on bitch fest, just so you know. I mean, like, yeah, a little bit, but it's all with constructive criticism, so we can actually learn what not to do. So I'm super excited for today's guests. We've got your ganja deferentially, aka Gigi, so Gigi, don't say goodbye to everybody who's here with us today.

Hello, everyone. Nice to see everyone.

Yes, yes, yes. And in. For those of you who are here that live, no pressure, if you don't want to put on your camera, like we'd love to see you. If you're up for that. There's also you know, your, your experience here is just as appreciated if you're off camera, too. So I'm Mai-kee Tsang, by the way and don't worry, I'm gonna I'm gonna like do a quick intro in just a bit, but I just want to let you know what you can expect over these next 90 minutes or so. Okay, so number one, introducing today's guest, who is Gigi where they choose her? That's number one. And number two, seeing Gigi has pictures and you just told me in the green room? Hey, Kay, so I combed through 87 pitches to see which ones to bring? I thought, Well, okay, I did not expect you to go through this detail. But at the same time, I'm not surprised at all because she is extremely, or she is actually the brilliance behind my brand, as well as everything that you're seeing brand wise is all cued up genius. So just a little plug that will actually do for a rebrand, hopefully, sometime this year. So yeah, that's also a big reason why we know each other, but we go way back many years. Anyhow, so we're going to look inside the inbox. So a couple of G us pitches, which is kindly picked out from the 87 q&a with Gigi. And I'll mainly be moderating, because obviously, it's a studio session. But of course, if any question that I feel like I can chime into or specifically directed towards me or both of us, then I'm happy to chime in there. But before we actually get into all this good stuff, I do want to give a quick introduction, because again, I don't want to make an assumption that everybody knows me because that's just no, no. And I also want to give a quick sponsor shout out to how this series is being like me to be. So that is one of my own programmes that I will share just a little bit about that. And Gigi as she has some things up her sleeve about that as well. So I'm super, super excited. And Petra, I just want to give you a shout out because I see you and like love blood in the barn and also your beautiful artwork behind you as well. Gorgeous. Okay, so hi, everyone, my name is Mai-kee Tsang, are you she her pronouns, and I am the sustainable visibility mentor. I'm also ICF certified in trauma sensitive leadership coaching. And I'm also podcast gifting strategy trainer. And in a nutshell, what I do, I help underestimated and underrepresented entrepreneurs to be more visible in a way that feels good to them. That also does good for the business. So that way, they can show up consistently for their clients, that community and the collaborators. And like I said, at the beginning, I started this series because I am a host, I'm the host of the quiet rebels podcast. I've been running that since 2019. And I've received so many pitches over the years and some of them have completely missed the mark. And some of them honestly pissed me off. And I started sharing some of these experiences I just out in the open. But I always anonymized because we were all about spotting patterns in not pointing at people, you know. And when I started sharing them, a lot of my podcasting peers came out of the woodwork. They're like, Yo, maybe I have some stories to tell you. And they told me the stories. And just as a joke, I was like, if we had a space that we can talk about this, there'll be there'll be interesting, you know, just to open the floor for these conversations that we wish people knew. And lo and behold, that is how pitches that pisser podcasters came to be. And I'm super, super excited about that. So just want to say though, we all start from somewhere. So this the whole, like bad pitch thing. We all start from somewhere, we can't possibly know what we don't know. Right? Like I actually started back in 2019 to when I wanted to pitch to more podcasts to really like, you know, expand my reach and everything. And my mentors just told me that like, oh, yeah, you should pitch more podcasts, but they didn't really say much beyond that. So I just challenged myself because I thrive very well under challenges. And I'm telling this more as a cautionary tale than I am an inspirational one by the way. But I chose to challenge opportunity 101 podcasters in 30 days and I We'll never do that again, not because experience wasn't like wonderful or anything, but like, just capacity wise, I really want to do every single person justice who has allowed me a great honour and privilege to have me on their platform. So something a little bit there. But anyway, I actually didn't expect to receive a 33% booking rate in the process. And since then, I really wanted to understand why it worked. So I started asking these podcasters, who said yes to me? What made you say yes, I'm curious. So they told me and it really informed how I reverse engineer the process and made it into a teachable framework that I've taught hundreds of entrepreneurs to this day now. And I've done I'm doing this still in my on demand ultimate podcast, getting Mash Up series. So this is what this whole series is being sponsored by. So if you'd like to book yourself on more podcasts, by sending fewer pitches, so that way, you can expand your reach deepen relationships with host fellow leaders and grow your business on autopilot, then consider this your gentle invitation to learn more about it later on. I'll be both in the recording. And in the live session today, I'll be sure to drop the link. And Gigi has very kindly wants to be an advocating affiliate for this as well, which means the world because I know GG standards are incredibly high in the best way possible. So for her to say yes to wanting to be an advocating affiliate, that means the world, the absolute world, so huge, I'm totally gushing on you.

I'm blushing anyway.

So this is a slide that I mentioned has your beautiful face on it. And yes, I chose this picture like we both, you know, had a little photo shoot over at this place. And

luckily, it's not a picture of the two of us on the couch.

Oh, yeah, I know exactly which one you're talking about. Again, everybody, we go way back. Anyway, Gigi, I'm going to hand it over to you. So I'm going to stop sharing my screen. And I'm also going to make you the host as well. So any screen share you want to do is all on you. Oh, actually, I think I'm going to actually I will stay as the host because I don't want the chimes for the waiting room to like, interrupt you at any point. So I can share my screen anyway. Sure. Okay, I'll stop. I'll stop mine. And I'll keep an eye on everybody who is lovingly joining us today. Of

course. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for this wonderful introduction. And so lovely to see lots and lots of faces a no or names I know. Also seeing some new people. So hello, very quickly, I'm going to introduce myself for those who don't know me. I am Gigi or give gave meow but it's a little bit of a tongue twister. So GGS have been, you know, everyone was has been calling me this way for years and years. And I'm a brand and web designer and business educator for creatives. And my story with podcasting is to be honest, a little bit on and off. I've had lots of things happen in my life. And the last couple of years that have been basically were a bit more of a priority than some of my marketing strategies like moving to another country, having a baby, and all of that. So it's interesting when you have big life events, life changes, you'll learn to prioritise to prioritise your time, and you just learn how little time you have and how you need to understand what are the things that you know, need shifting sometimes. But I've been podcasting, I think I started podcasting a little bit later, soon after you may gave I'm not mistaken, I think it was early 2020. And since then, I received hundreds and hundreds of pitches actually. And it makes me sad that I sifted through 87 pitches, and that's considering the pitches that are in my archive inbox and not in my like, deleted, you know, destroyed emails inbox. So it was a it was interesting to go through all of that, especially because most of the pitches that were a little bit of a red flag for me, they all have the same pattern. And I think it's this is an excellent opportunity to look at that into learn so that we can get better so that we can craft pitches that are more intentional, that are more personal so we can craft less pitches as well. I remember make it when you did your 100 pitch challenge. Like no way I cannot do that. But you also helped me write again.

It's a cautionary tale now not an inspirational one just just

but he did help me with my pitches back then I remember you really helped me understand how to write better pitches, and how to just become more confident. I think a lot of a lot of people are afraid of pitching themselves because of things like imposter syndrome because of things like, you know, do. Am I big enough to talk on this person's show? Do I have enough experience we have enough, quote unquote smart things to say whatever. And what I want to do today is show you that whatever level level you how, whatever how many, how many ever years of experience, you have, podcast pitching is an opportunity to share your value, but also your experience. A lot of people learn from experience, not particularly, you know, we'll look at some podcasts pitches that are very braggy. And for me as a podcast host, this is the type of pitches that I do not want to receive. I do not need someone on my show that just brags about how amazing they are. Look at everything that I have. And I have achieved over the last years. A good podcast guest is someone who shows up authentically and shows up there to bring value, to share their experience to share stories as well. I mean, not every single podcast is about teaching. A lot of podcasts are storytelling, getting to just listen to other people's experience and stories of how they got started. Stories of motherhood stories of friendships, whatever, whatever it is, whatever your specialty is. So I just want to remind you that it's not always about teaching and being an expert in everything, etc. So with that, let's look at some pitches. Are you ready? Did you bring that? See?

That was a very bad plug.

I'm ready for it. My last over. I mean, it's late, like for both of us, but yeah, super, super excited. And thank you so much for speaking to the very real experiences that we might go for our head when we're thinking about pitching like, Oh, are we big enough? That no way? Yes, as well as value, you know, through teaching author experiences and stories that people want to listen to. And it really depends on the kind of podcasts that you want to reach out to I will determine on how much of it is like story based or strategy based and then some of them are a hybrid as well. So I'm really excited to hear and, and but yes, the most ragged braggadocious kind of pictures are like instant No. And I have a tab in my Gmail that says bad podcast pictures that are used for educational purposes like this. So yeah, we're ready to see those.

I need to start I need to start doing this. Before I show you podcasts, which I just remembered. Earlier today, I recorded an episode with my clients, their three psychologists and we had a little bit of a conversation about the rebrand. But then we talked about impostor syndrome. And they reminded me something very important is that we have to when we feel imposter syndrome, and a lot of us may experience imposter syndrome when pitching for podcasts, even pitching a client pitching for Summit, etc. And you're only starting to do that you have to make your makes base and remember that it's okay to be a beginner in something. I think there's so much out you're everyone is talking about how you have to be an expert how you have to know everything, but it's totally okay to be a beginner. We all were beginners in whatever we are doing right now. Make it was a beginner when she was she started her repitching channel, I we were all beginner hosts, and we didn't know how to interview people. And if you listen to some of our first episodes, it's probably you'll be like, Oh my god, what is that? In the same way, you know, whatever it is that you do in your business, you were a beginner first. And on that when I had that conversation with my clients, we talked about how I feel a lot of impostor syndrome in relation to my daughter, how I feel like, you know not good enough as a mom now that she became a toddler and moved away from babyhood from that, you know, sweet, sweet baby phase. And they reminded me that you've never done this before. You're a beginner at raising a toddler. And it's okay. And for me this was really a wake up call because I think we forget to allow ourselves to be beginners if something is solely okay. And yeah, I think it's something that we need to remind ourselves off. So with that, let's look at our first pitch. So which one should I go for? Should I go with the we have two options? Well, let's go yeah, let's go with with the bracket one. Let's go right in. Let's you know, let's let me ensure that every thing is, and not always the way it should. But I think I checked a couple of times that it should be. It should be okay. Awesome. All right. So fun story, this is actually a pitch I received, I'm not sharing my screen yet. This is a pitch I received. So well, the these, the people who are being pitched to be on the podcast are, I guess, hired a couple of agencies to help them pitch on, on different podcasts. And I've received their pitch from three different agencies pitching this couple and every, like, every time every time it was this, like, maybe it comes from the clients, you know, that's kind of like, the information that they want to share with the host probably comes from the client. But all agencies pitch this client awfully. And I just feel really bad for this client. All right. So your

as, as your as your carrier for these pitches, I may just like jumped in with a question here and there, if that's all right, because Absolutely. Because there's something that I do really want to hear from you. Because I do want to put it out there that not all agencies pitch this awfully. It's just that some of our biggest stories, when it comes to certain pitches are they just tend to be from agents that use? Yeah, but I just want to say they're not all agencies are bad. Some of them can be on really, really good. It just so happens that a lot of our experiences just happened to agencies.

Yes. And I think one of the reasons is because not definitely not eight, not all agencies are bad at pitching. I've had some good pitches from good agencies. But I think the big issue with agencies is that they have their list of podcasts. I mean, we all have, I have a list of podcasts I like to appear on. But then they're just like, batch all those emails, and they send it out and they forget about the personality. And the personality, as you can see is so important. And it's not hard. It does require some extra time. But especially now with the rise of AI and that's a whole other conversation. And that's something I actually want the it's okay with you. And if Chad GBT is going to let me in. I would like to try and write a pitch on Chad's GBT together on the call. And, and you're just going to see how similar the bad pitches are to what Chad GBT is gonna throw at us, because it lacks that personality element. And you can instantly see when someone sends you a page that is just a copy paste that is sent out to tonnes of other people. So I think it would be could be an interesting exercise. And if charge up to

a thing like, what a bonus slides.

And if Chad GPT doesn't let us in because they're they have too many people that we can also try. I mean, there are tonnes of other eyes anyway. This is the pitch. As I said it's the client is is a couple so x and x co founders of this are available to appear on your podcast. I mean, already. You know, it's kind of like a one on one to say, Oh, well, thank you. Thank you for this honour.

Thank you so much. Grace upon your presence. That's exactly what I say. But I love how you just did that.

Exactly. Like Oh gracious. I am honoured that these people who I have no idea who they are, are making time for me for my little podcast that gets a couple 100 listens per episode. Oh, by. I mean, sometimes you just have to be nice. And this this pitch. Unfortunately for me, it was an instant. Now, we're gonna we're gonna move on. But let's see. Let's see what else happened here. All right, so x and x are excellent guests for discussions on branding, marketing, leadership, company culture and business trends. And the sad parts is but I can everyone still hear because I don't make anything froze. Maybe her internet went off. Awesome. All right. Thank you for letting me know Petra. The the sad part is that these are actually really great topics that I personally cover on the podcast. I love talking about branding. I love talking about marketing, leadership. These are all topics that my audience would love hearing about. And it makes me feel like hey, if you pitch this to me, you probably know what my podcast is about. So why go in ruin it was such an awful hook was such Shouldn't awful introduction, Why ruin it from the very first sentence for your clients? But this is actually a, you know, a good way of introducing the topics for discussions. Let's look what they would they select. After that here's a link to one sheet with short bios and make it I would actually be interested in hearing you on this with you thing about this one sheets. Because I'm I mean, I am a busy person, but I'm not like your I don't want to say that who I do not have time to look at you a little one sheet. But I really don't. I mean, ah,

I think they are really lazy to be honest. Because Because because, okay, that there is a time in place for one sheet. So it's not during the introductory phase, I think it's best used during the booking phase, when they said yes, and then like, all of the links are in one place. And instead of filling in certain forms, some agencies do do use their clients, one sheet instead of following a form process and some podcasters are fine with it. But giving a one sheet upfront, that tells me that like, Oh, you're doing this at volume, because you're not curating this for me, even though you're asking to be on my platform. That's my take on it. I think it's a bit lazy. And I think it shows lack of consideration and a lack of care. Because it's not as curated now.

Yeah, and I agree, because it for me, it makes me feel like hey, I don't have time to write you a long personalised email. So I'm just going to let you figure it out with a one sheet. So I'm not personally not a huge fan of one sheet unless as Mai-kee said, it's a good point unless it's later in the process. One sheet is basically a PDF almost like a CV for for podcast guests. So beginning in Google that could have like a one sheet for a podcast, podcasting. And it's usually like a little review, like a CV, it's tells a bit more about you. Like a media kit. Yes. tells people a little bit about you maybe shows a couple of episodes, or podcasts or summits or workshops you've run in the past. And what are your topics of interest, etc. All right, moving on. So here's a link to one sheets. And then we have this just I was HoH Lord X and X recently released their first book, we're happy to send you a copy once we booked their periods on your podcast cringing this was I think this is the like, really the worst. The worst pitch I received. This is incredibly braggy and unsought. I mean, it's thoughtful that, hey, we're gonna send you a, a book, but hey, you gotta you gotta book us. I don't even know who you are. What is this book about? Do I like? Will I like this book would be me, it wouldn't be funny. They were they were saying, Hey, we're gonna send a book to your first I don't know, 10 of your of your readers are something that's No, not a good. I mean, I don't mind someone talking about their book, you know, if it's, they just wrote a really interesting book that my audience may be interested about. And they want to talk about a topic related to the book. And then in the at the end of the page, they say, and we'd love to share at the end, we'd love to share a little bit more about the book they just wrote, I wouldn't mind that that much. Because you still tell me that, hey, you're there to actually share value. And I'm not an idiot. You know, if you know, you wrote a book, I know that you're doing these podcast episodes, as a promotional, you know, for marketing as promotion. So this was just like, huh,

I see some, we have some comments like, Oh, this is painful, very bait and switch TKE the fact you had to deal with this pitch three times from the Apple Watch.

But again, you know, it's not the fact that I had to deal with three different agencies who sent this pitch. And there was just no differentiation between them. You know, I wouldn't I would actually be would be a good case study if one of them one of the agencies actually wrote a really good pitch for this for this couple. But but no. All right. The data team will heavily promote their appearance on your podcast to their approximately 1000 social followers and their email list of 2.5 and we'll also share on their personal social feeds. Of you Okay, I like the fact that you're going to promote I like when my guests promote but Hear that would be great. If you drop me a couple of links for me to look at your, at your accounts, especially, you know, and we'll also share on their personal social feeds again, like,

oh, wow,

thank you can I have a link to those? Because I would like to see what are those feeds about? I also like to just check out people's social media, etc, so that I can get to know the people a little better. But all right. Again, a lot of braggy you know, kind of you doing me a favour. I mean, it's, it's quite it's, I would I don't want to say expected. But I, I love creating content. So when I have guests on my podcast, I create content for them to promote, and I love to do that. But it's rubbing in my face. Don't quite like that.

Yes. And by the way, you said like, oh, it's not you kind of like stumbled a bit unexpected, but no, expected is a good practice. As a podcast, it's good to practice your part. Yes, it's a good practice, especially if you're using podcasts guesting as a way to connect with people and actually build genuine relationships as opposed to just leveraging someone's platform, regardless of how you've impacted the person, if that makes sense. So it's a good practice. And it's what I teach in the in the ultimate podcasting workshop series. No host, ghosting, just,

that's true, because I think you have to realise the time and effort that the host goes through in order to give you the space to share your value and get in front of their audience. I mean, it's creating a podcast is a lot of time and effort and sometimes investment, financial investment, you know, not only are they're spending time reading your pitch and determining whether or not they're gonna say yes, but it's also the admin part getting you on board. And maybe they have a team member that does that they pay, you know, they pay the page them to do that, then making time to record the episode, editing the episode promoting the episode the horses doing all of that, yes, to share value with their audience, but also for you to give you exposure and to introduce you to a new audience, you know, create a relationship with you. So of course, you know, giving back something is I think, is natural.

And great completely.

We're not done, we're still we're still going. It's a long pitch. X and X are veteran podcast guests. So they will be on time in a quiet environment and ready with enthusiasm. I actually like that. I you know, I think it's like something something along the lines of hey, by the way, I do a do have a professional mic. I think Mai-kee youth had me that little line. So my voice will be crystal crystal clear. I actually liked that part. But then we're going into all the things they've been featured on. So feature together. Oops, I forgot the first names. Emily and Justin, my bed. And then please reply. Hold on, I need to move. Please reply. What does it say? I have to move all the things from zoom with questions and your interest level booking x and x, I'd love to set up a recording date. I really should have said my interest level is zero. In booking in booking, this, this guest and again, it's a shame because it's nothing. To be honest, I don't know, this, this couple I don't know who they are personally. And I actually the topics that this this agency pitched. You know what they would they could could talk about marketing, leadership, comedy culture, these are all as I said, topics that I love talking about. And potentially we could have had a really great conversation. But what I'm missing here from this pitch is just natural, personal interest in being on my show, in sharing value with my audience and telling me what is it that you're going to bring to the table? Because from what I'm seeing here, you're, you're here for the free right? You know, that's about it. I can't tell what is it that what's the point of having of you being on my show? What are the topics that you would like to talk about specific topics, and it's really helpful when you can give three ideas for example to your to the podcast host but what is it that you would like to talk about? It's so much easier and saves a lot of time, because if I were to consider them to be on the show, my next question would be like, Okay, what do you like to talk about? Save me an email, you know, tell me what are the top three ideas that you have? What are the top three things that you think will be valuable for my ideas? Show me that you understand? Who is it that I'm talking to? So this is, this was an unfortunate pitch, you know, it's a shame for my last time, but it's also a shame for this, this couple because, unfortunately, it doesn't really, you know, doesn't help them to be a guest on a podcast. What do you think make it what are your thoughts on this on this pitch? I mean,

there's many things that they could have done that would have just changed the tide? I mean, if they didn't, well, first of all, the first line is the immediate No, and just like, yeah, we exaggerated like, well, thank you, for you know, even considering us to be graced upon your presence. I mean, like, clearly, they have a lot of credibility. And that's great and everything, but to put their self importance over the service that they can deliver to you and your audience, is the reason why, like no amount of good things can help them kind of like get back into your good books, especially now that they've been pitched across so many different agencies, that yeah, there's a lack of links for how they can promote you there as they clearly are doing a podcast tool for that book, and thought that they can incentivize you, or kind of bribe you a little bit to into a yes, but then also send you a book. And like, there's so many things that Mr. Mark, and there are so many credibility markers that if they were used in a service driven way, they absolutely could work. Because like you said, you you're interested in these topics, and you're happy to talk about their experience. But because it was positioned in such a way that reinforces a power dynamic that you're the host is actually down here, and they're up here is definitely just like rubs off the wrong way and has probably, almost, I don't want to use the word sabotage, but it's really negatively impacted a future possibility for collaboration with you in them. And that's really unfortunate, because sometimes the pitch is the only first impression we'll ever be able to make with people. And so you know, when you are writing a pitch, remember, it's an invitation to connect. And every single person who's a podcaster, you know, what I just said it, you know, every podcaster is a person that a human behind this microphone, this screen, and we deserve, that we deserve to send them an invitation that was thought well thought out.

That's very true. Yes. So much skill. Yeah, I think there's just so many opportunities that were missed here from, you know, even like the I'm not going to talk about that first line, and just how rude in general it is. But even you know, they said that they're a co founder of x, they can remember what it's even an agency or just a business, don't remember. Even that, you know, tell me what does this business do? I have no idea. You also don't provide me with a link. So that means that I am will need to go and find that for myself. Make it as easy as possible for the host to get to know you better, and say yes. And honestly, for me, it was a really good check, whether it's a good pitch, whether I'm writing a good pitch or not. I tried to just put myself in the shoes of other hosts of someone who doesn't know me, and just honestly, tell myself, would I say yes to myself. I do this all the time with, you know, even like, marketing myself, and especially with marketing, I asked this all the time, would the client want to hire me, you know, when I'm designing or something like this. And at the same here, when you're writing a pitch, try to step away from it as the guest and look at it from the perspective of a host who knows nothing about you? And ask yourself would would I say yes to this person? Do I like this person from this first line is how does it make me feel? And if it's like, oh, just check in with yourself, see what's missing? What's missing from the host perspective? I think sometimes we write those, you know, with write emails or even just content as ourselves and that we sometimes forget about the other person who's actually going to be reading this. I have this often especially when I reply some client emails you know, when I don't know a client is being a little maybe rude. And you have like all those like emotions and just start typing and you're like, oh, that breeze. This is not going to do any good for anyone. And then just delete everything you're like, Okay, how would I as a client, want to? What do I want to read in order to take like, this particular action, for example? So yeah, just try to make it a practice to check in with yourself. And yeah, besides like, for me understanding a little bit more about this couple and or understanding about specific topics that they would like to talk about. I'm like to even listen to my podcast, like, Do you know what I'm talking about? Even a note, you know, we're going to look at some examples, an example afterwards. But even showing that you've actually listened to your partner to an episode, that you understand what the podcast is about, you understand who my audience is, all that information is publicly available. It's in my pot, like, even if you're lazy, and you don't want to go and listen to the episode. By the way, now the podcast is created to convert, I changed the name of the podcast. But even if you don't want to take the time, listen to an episode, read this description of the podcast, check out the podcast webpage, to at least get an understanding of who is it that you're talking to? So yeah, a little bit of an unfortunate pitch. All right, should we does anyone have any questions about this pitch? Anything that they want to? To mention? Or should we look at pitch number one, number two,

before we move on? And you know, for anyone who wants to type a question, if you could like type Q? In the in the chat, so that way, like we know to wait for the first question that you want to write let us something that might help that. If there's any questions or reflections that you might want to share? Let us know in the chat. But there is a question I did want to ask you, you said that this pitch is quite long. And as you may know, that I do tend to teach how to write longer pitches. But I'm curious, like, what is too long for you? And like, yeah, just what are your thoughts about you know, the length of the pitch?

No, it's for me, it's not that this entire pitch is long. It's like, it's the bad stuff just carries on. For me, if it's a long pitch, but it's a good pitch, I don't mind reading about it. I don't even you know, they told me that, hey, we're doing a book tour in class or doing a book tour. I don't mind if you were honest and forward with me. But no lengths, why I think this is this is fine, lengthwise, where we're saying that we're it keeps on going is that the bad stuff keeps on going, you know, it's just it's not getting any better. So that's what I meant. Okay,

so what I'm hearing is that length is actually that's not the thing is about what the content is of the pitch itself.

Absolutely. Because the short pitch can also sometimes be like, yeah, that's all you're gonna say. Yeah, kinda. Yeah, you know, because sometimes pitches don't have enough juice in them. And especially if you don't know the person, it may feel like a little bit. Excuse me, you know, I'm gonna invite me for dates first, like are we jumping right into that? Okay.

We do have a question. So what subject line would you recommend as using something clear like guest pitch for x y Zed or something more creative?

I mean, I'm a I'm a sucker for a creative subject line I'll be honest, it shows personality and remember I shared shared with you one of my very first podcast appearances for a Oh, the close the podcast since then, but it was a something elevator. Remember that? And my subject line was like, hey, is there still space on that in that elevator? Remember, and for me the thing is, the thing is when now when I see a podcast pitch with like, guest guest suggestion for Cree to convert podcast I mean, yeah, you're straight to the point but I'm also like, Ah, okay, let's let's see, or huh okay, I'm gonna read it later. But when it's something creative and something that I like, Hold on now, what is this little email? It just you know, it also shows me that you have personality and maybe you're not sending this to every single person you know, maybe you're it's a subject line just for me and I feel a little bit special. But that's that's my personal preference, but above you make any

So as x caught your eye, so I'm always taught clear over clever and cutesy. I think clever and cute things can come into play so long as it's doesn't clouds the clarity. So don't dismiss the power Have emojis. Okay, that's fine. There was a podcast that I pitched. And it's the podcast was a perfect symbol would be red apples, just like a Snow White Apple. So put that in the pitch. And she was like, I'm not gonna lie that caught my attention. Because it's just something that does seem so right. And to be honest, I personally prefer clarity over cleverness, if that's only if the cleverness again, it's just it's a bit confusing. So it's the cleverness of the cutesy Ness makes it confusing, but it does clear that's when you've kind of missed the mark. And it's just like every, again, as an ex copywriter. For email marketing, you only have one chance for someone to open your email, and it depends on the subject line. And you either really hit the mark, or you make it clear anyway, and because you know, there's no guesswork of like guest request. And even though it's not as original, as the, you know, the LM, is there any space in this elevator that you wrote? It still it still pique someone's curiosity? And like, Okay, let's see what the surgeon had to say. They're pitching themselves, you know, so there's definitely room for both. But so long as it's clear first, that is your number one priority in your subject line. But that was a great question. And a great question.

I think very quickly. Very quick note on that as well. It really also very much depends on the personality of the host. You know, it depends on the podcast that you're pitching, sometimes it's just like, not really the right place and time for emojis and cute in, you know, cute see creative subject lines. So I mean, hip experiments. I will I will talk very briefly about, you know, hearing nose and or hearing silence to a podcast pitch at the end. But it's also you know, just because somebody doesn't reply, don't think that automatically it's, is the subject line is the entire pitch. I'm a failure and everything, you know, just like everything sucks. Not always you can also experiment with. Yeah, what works best for

you. 100% So our next question that we have is would a video be interesting to add or would that take too much of your time? Oh, okay. Okay, I've said a couple of video pitches in my time. Very curious what you think about Gee,

I sent video pitches in Instagram, DMS. I did not I haven't sent podcast pitches, video podcast pitches in emails. But I've received and I've watched half of them. I watched the ones where a person tells me Well, first of all, if it grabs my attention, and if I'm having a good like vibe from the pitch, but also when someone tells me that this is a 30 or like 62nd video. I know you're I know you're a busy person. So I just I'm just gonna take 30 seconds of your time to introduce myself. No, like, you know what, I have 30 seconds of my time to watch someone's video, a personalised video knowing that this is someone who you know spent time recording this for me. Yeah, watch it. But, but sometimes you received a podcast fish once with a video. That was six minutes something and I was like, Ah, okay, I mean, this is a lot.

Yes, definitely. So, videos festival you'll stand out 100% with a video because it's a bit more nerve wracking to do however, there are it and like to share how long the video is, is definitely something something that will always help you. If you have some sort of like post it note or like a little mini whiteboard, however you want to write their name so they know it's personal because you know how you receive. Like, I receive a lot of marketing emails like oh, I made a video just for you and like you didn't you didn't record this just for me. You said it's the whole you list but I'm making it pretend as if it's personal, but no, it's not. So if you're gonna send a video, highly, highly recognised not even just a recommendation, do it. Okay, do some sort of personalization like write their name, and like make it clear that you made it just for them. I sent a video pitch to a very prolific podcaster it took me over a year to get booked on this podcast because I was persistent in a in a but they definitely they caught my eye caught their attention via this video pitch. I wrote their name. And and if you know that they have a team base because I was on the email list and everything. I know who answered the emails and it wasn't the host it was a team. And so I wrote their name. I was like, hey, so and so it's like and also like Gretchen Are you there and She was like, Oh my God, that's me. Sorry. Like, that takes obviously an additional level of research. But trust me, that attention to detail does not go unnoticed. So at the very minimum, write that write their name. And that's a huge name. Not not just like team, whatever the company is, right there, the actual team members name, and it will stand out above all the rest, and making sure that it's personal. And that is relevant. And that is relatively short as well. Fantastic. So, yeah, that's

a great tip video pitches. Gregory tip, I might use that and myself, actually,

please, please use it. Trust me, it does work and, and eat and remember, just want to say that. And no, could be a knock right now. Right. And that's something really important to remember. Because we can be so hard on ourselves when a pitch that can go wrong, and pitch doesn't go right. And all we get ghosted, but you might just find that through the power of a intentional follow up. That's not too pushy. It can really work on this. Actually, Gigi, I know you have another your sleeve. But before we do move into that one, could you actually share a bit more about your thoughts on follow ups today?

Yeah, so actually, my next pitch is include some follow up. Okay. And okay, I think it's really great transition into that. I think follow ups are incredibly important. I say it to my students with client follow ups. And it's great that you said that I know is also an potentially no right now, because this is exactly the same thing I tell my students, a couple of them are here. That you know, just because a lead tells you you know, that you're not see they can't work with you right now. Doesn't say that's mean that it's forever. And follow up. Maybe you know, I'm not even talking about following when a couple of days, we're talking follow up and maybe a couple of months. Maybe they I don't know they have a very busy lifestyle, maybe they missed your email, maybe their teams accidentally deleted your email, there are so many reasons why you may not hear from the host tonnes of reasons. Don't assume that it's personal. I think this is the the biggest one, one of the biggest things I would love for you to take away from this session is to when you pitch to really, it's not just about podcasts or anything, when you pitch your lead the clients for summit for whatever, try to detach yourself from the outcome. Pitch thinking that, you know, whatever this whatever happens, if I'm okay with that, if I hear Yes, amazing, this is going to be a really great opportunity to do something new to to learn to, to have a new experience. If you're no, great, I'm going to learn from it. If I don't hear anything, I'm going to learn from it. And I'm going to try it again and again. And that's fine. I'm okay with Hearing no. And I'm will detach any personal feelings I have about this. Because a no or a radio silence has nothing to do with you personally. It's it's and I think it's so much easier to pitch from that positioning. I mean, some of the pitches, you know, the pitch that we looked at, I mean, yeah, there are a couple of personal notes that we made there. But that's what we're here for. We're here to not, you know, learn how to create better pitches. But if you do have a really intentional pitch, you know, you put time and effort into crafting it. You don't hear anything bad. It's okay. It's okay, I will move on to the next one. And if I still really want to be on that person's show, I'm going to touch base again. And I'm going to, you know, try and follow up with them and see what is it? I usually follow up three times. I think I remember the setting you fill up more make a if I'm not mistaken.

I say between three and five. But I but nowadays, I would follow up to three times. Yeah.

Yeah, same same for me. I follow up to up to three times. And actually, if I don't hear anything after three times, and let's say three months later, I'm still like listening to that show. And I'm like, I would be a great guest for that show. You know what, I'm gonna circle back, I had a really funny story where I actually pitch someone to like, early on, I pitch someone to be on their show. And I followed up with them never heard anything back. And about maybe six, eight months later, after I started my podcast. Their team pitched me to be a guest on my show. And I was like, Ah, hello. What's happening? We did end up I should be recording An episode together. And it's I told her, You know what, I actually pitch severe on your show because she's actually really, really great. And she told me that she actually like, I mean, I don't know how true it is, but showing that she actually never saw my pitch, she would love to have me on her podcast, but she should never got she never saw my pitch. So then the question is, is it true or maybe the team, you know, maybe just got lost in this, bam, that's also a possibility, and they never saw it. So anyway, following up is always good, but there's a good way of following up and there's a bad way of pulling out. So we're gonna, we're gonna have a look at that. Let's look at our next pitch. Okay, so that it is I should have had everything before. There. So this is also this is also from an agency. Hi. So listen, there's this there's this saying that a person's name is their favourite word and the word in the world. And when I don't see like how GG OCO like, did you send this to everyone?

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah. And even if I see someone say hi, give ganja for me. I'm always I've always also feel like maybe you didn't listen to my show. I mean, you begin is my name. Don't get me wrong. But everyone knows me as Gigi and I introduced myself as GG on the podcast, although often you would see you again in the brackets GG. So just like those little you know, those little little details, but here are not the mean seeing if ganja or GG for me was a little bit of a question, Mark. I hope you're well I am. Well, I'd like to propose x for the creates connect convert podcast. Okay, I mean, nothing too bad so far. He's the CEO and co founder of x a company whose mission is to eliminate operational silos, silos and improve processes and scale for SAS businesses. Ah, okay. I have a podcast for creative learners. I didn't understand how

words silo operational silo I have no, I don't mean.

So honestly, I did. The first time one thing I read this was like, did they send this to the right person? Because like, there is just nothing in common here. I mean, they have my podcast name there. But I think if they probably send this to everyone, and they just changed the podcast name, because this is definitely not something that I know about, or something that my audience is interested in. There's just like nothing, nothing in common. The company is the largest single operator for revenue in Silicon Valley managing over in bold, 2.2 billion in revenue. Their customers include this in that, do you see a little bit of a pattern with the previous pitch where it's like, Hey, this is how amazing we are. Look, I'm gonna put in bold, that we're managing over $2 billion in revenue. This is how amazing we are. And just this number should shock you enough to invite him on the podcast. I mean, it's great. I'm so glad that he's, you know, he's successful, and he has this really great business. But don't throw those numbers at me because this is not what you're going to impress me with. I have small business owners on the podcast, I have clients on the podcast, I do not need to know how much you're managing and revenue, at least not for my podcast. There are and I really do believe they are, you know, podcasts in the maybe finance industry podcasts that are specific to Silicon Valley SAS specific podcasts that this for whom this information may or may be important, but not for my audience. Sorry Mai-kee just got kicked out I think of the room one second. With me just reply to her thing her intro internet kicked her out. All right. I hope she's going to be able to get back in let's continue in the meantime. So yeah, especially said Know your audience know what are the things that are important to them. And again, a lot of that information will be available in the podcast description. Make his back. I'll get you they will say what this podcast is about who this podcast is for and potentially even what These are the, you know, what are some of the values they may be, or the topics of discussions they may be covering on this podcast. On the podcast X would love to talk about how to identify and close operational gaps, improve the buyer journey and increase the LTV long term value of every customer, you could also talk about the common traits of all high growing companies. I think at this point, it's just safe to assume that this is just not I'm not the great podcast for that person. Again, this could be a good podcast pitch for Silicon Valley, podcasts, financial industry, podcast, SAS, whatever, not for my type of podcast. And all that I can tell from this is that the person didn't do their homework, they are just sending it to everyone without even you know, checking for person's name. All they're changing is basically this the name of the podcast and that's about it. To get a feel, here's an interview he did with the dots. Okay, I don't mind if I weren't interested in getting to know this person better. I might even check it out, you know, to even like, listen to the person and see if I like their vibe if I like how they are, how they talk how clearly they can, you know, piece their thoughts together and all of that I am interested in that. Would you be interested in having X on the podcast? That's about it? No, thank you know nothing, you know, again, like I'm here to basically do you a favour and get this person on the podcast. That's how it feels. And honestly, if you are going to be bolding something and make it maybe you can share a bit here. Some thoughts here, as a copywriter is better with your background is on in copywriter in copywriting. If you are going to be building something bold, something that will really make an impact. What do you think?

Yes, definitely, don't shy away from using boats and as hallux. And again, depending on the personality of the hot host. The occasional emotion, don't overstuff them. I mean, I am a sucker for emojis, especially like good ones. But yeah, if you're going to use bold, then you know, put it around something that's going to be like really valuable because the bold is almost like a road bump in the reading journey of someone's of when you're reading a pitch. And so if you're gonna build something, make it about how it's in service to the podcast yet again. And a quick note, by the way, when it comes to leveraging another interview that you may have already done, especially at podcast, one, which tend to be quite long, a little secret tip for you. If you're going to leverage, use a user podcast with a host that this host knows one. And number two, give a specific timestamp that like oh, you're gonna love 3228 because like it's going to be in relation to the thing I spoke about just something like that. Just give them a timestamp because it shows again, the attention to detail that you've gone through to let them know like, Okay, I acknowledge you have a busy schedule. I know you're short on time. But here like here's a quick hits that you can get not only is it going to help them understand how you articulate your thoughts, how you talk about your story, etc, etc. But also that, again, that extra level of detail goes a long,

long way. That's a really great tip. And actually someone did do that. But with a video podcast, they linked directly to that time for YouTube. And I was like, Thank you for making my life. Easy. I like to

make it make it easy for them.

Yeah. So this email was received. Hold on, I think I caught this. Okay, so the previous email was received on a Friday. And on Sunday, first of all, why are you telling me on a Sunday. But on a Sunday, I get this, Hey, I just talked to x and told him about this show. He would love to join if you're up for it. And for a second remember I read this and it's like, who are you? What did we have some sort of conversation I'm not aware of. I actually remember I had to go back and read the previous email because I could not understand who we talking about. Who is this person? Why did you tell them what what show about this show with show? My show? Do you see the level of the lack of the lack of energy they put into this fall? up no first name. Hi again. No, I never said hi. There is no name of the podcast. And what do you mean? You just talk to x? I thought X was really interested in being on my show. But he just found out about my show. What's what's happening? What is going on? So this is definitely you know, sometimes when I see those, like follow ups and pitches and like, I mean, it seems so obvious, again, put yourself in the host shoes. Right? Would you like to receive an email like this? I don't think so. How would you feel about me? Well, like that?

I mean, that the pitches that pissed me off the most are the idled ones. To be honest, I was like, Oh, yes, again, it anything that makes me feel like, Oh, well, thank you so much, you know, to do that bow thing that we did earlier. Anything that's written from that kind of perspective, it's, it's not just a pistol.

I may have lost you a bit. Oh, right. Where, where did that get cut off?

It's that you said that the pages that you see off most are the most entitled ones.

Yes, anything that makes me feel like I need to bow to thank them for bestowing upon me their presence. But it's, it's just presumptuous. And it's quite, it's just rude. It's just full on rude. And if they didn't give us the time of day, why would we give them the time day, let alone a place on our platform? Yeah, so

I agree. And, you know, it's for me, what's a little bit shocking me, I don't have a big podcast, I'm out. I'm a small fish. Right. And the thing is, a lot. I know a lot of a lot of big podcasts big or podcasts, they receive pitches like this, as well. Because they're probably just spamming everyone with those pitches. There's just no differentiations and at this point, I don't know I just feel like for me as a smaller podcaster it makes me feel like Oh, you think that you're so above me with your 2 billion in revenue that you're not even going to take time to say like to say my name, you know, that's how it makes me feel. As I said, remember that there is a person behind the behind the screen behind the podcast and the final cherry on top on Tuesday. On Tuesday, how many words do you think she wrote in this Follow up? Follow up third follow up oh well second follow up. How many just put in the chat How long do you think this follow up was I don't let me quickly check myself

I'm just gonna go out there 10 Watts

let's see where's the share screen it was two words. What

thread is this the same thread by the way? Yeah.

So this was this is Sunday. And this is Tuesday. She sent me two words touching base as if we're pals. Hey, just touching base. There is no base there is there is no base here.

touching base. What? Oh my god,

there was no foundation or base that was built initially. What base are we going to be touching? Just again, from in there is a reason you know, I don't ignore every single pitch I get. Even if it's not a good fit pitch. I will reply Hey, sorry. It's I don't think this is a good fit. Best of luck. But when you send me this, I'm not going to reply. I'm not going to take the time to type an answer for you. If you can't make the time for me. I'm not gonna waste time for you either one for me, that may sound harsh, but hey, we need to at least minimally respect each other that way. So this was just like, Okay, go touch on some other base. Cheering

Oh, wow. I think that's no it's not I think that is the most shocking follow up I've ever seen in my life. And I've seen a lot of them. I've I've written a lot of follow ups myself. But wow, touching base. That is. That's just one for the record books.

Absolutely.

All right. So whilst just if there are any questions or reflections about the pitch that Gigi just shared, as well as the follow ups, feel free to let us know in the chat or like with a queue or something, it's just notice something there. I'm curious, Gigi, from your experience, have you've had any good follow up threads? If so, what did they say? Well, what they like? Because I'm curious about that.

Yeah. So when I was actually reading through the pitches that I got I someone an email, that's actually a, it was a long time, she sent me that email in 2021. So it was a long time ago. But I read it, I'll say, I'm happy to got it that I didn't reply to that, because she said that she sent an application, she submitted an application through my application form. And she hasn't heard back now. And she actually told me the date when she when she sent it. And she said, now I understand you're, you're you're probably incredibly busy. So I'm not going to take much of your time, just wanted to bump this, bump it up up here and basically say that I love your podcast, love that episode, they'll listen, and we'd love to be on your on your show, to talk about this topic or that topic. The rest of the info is in the application form hope to hear from you. So this was actually for me, this is a kind follow up is someone who did apply via the way that I prefer. And this is another really important note, do not say if I have an application form, please don't send me emails. If I have a specific ways for you to submit a pitch, please use that because a note on it. The reason why we usually do that is so that everything is in one place. So that when we are ready to accept guests, it get guests as guests, we go through all of the applications, we filter through them, and we look at who is a good fit, if you send it by dm is you send it via email through the application, it's so hard for us to have everything in one place. And that's how applications get lost. Other really just really nice follow ups or just like genuine, genuine follow ups. And something that I personally do when I follow up is well, first of all, I don't write two words. But I do something similar, where I say, Hey, I wanted to follow up on this completely understand if you know if your schedule, schedule is busy. But and again, that's something that I like doing, but I listen to your latest episodes. So there's going to be time right between follow ups things that have happened, and maybe they released some new episodes, I want to show them that I'm still like listening to your show, and I still have opinions or thoughts about your show. First to show them that I'm actually actively listening to your podcast, but also that I'm you know, I'm interested, it's not just a general follow up, it's a follow up for you as a as a person. And and that's usually gets people's attention. Because sometimes, what I realise is people may look at the very first pitch and be like, Okay, I might look at it later. But then when they see a short follow up, and they see that it's a follow up specifically for them and not the Hey, touching base. They're like, Oh, let me actually check that first email she sent. So yeah, I don't mind follow ups as idle as long as they are personal and kind and, you know, just nice follow ups. I don't know, for me, it's almost seems like a little obvious.

Nothing is obvious, nothing. Unfortunately, no, but that's a really good point. What I'm hearing from you, in ideal follow ups are ones that I just consider it and ones that acknowledge your, your time take in and what I love about what what you said, with this person who fought with you give you a very specific date. So it would have made it easy, like yes, you would have had to comb through some of your applications, but that very specific day would have helped you narrow down instead of Oh, send an application last year. I'm like, okay, you know, but is that again, that level of detail that really shows that you that they care and providing some follow up insights from you know, your podcast, and um, how their topic that they pitch is still relevant, and would contribute to the conversation like yes, yes to all of that. So not just touching base but actually a real basis to touch base. Real bases?

Yes, I think this is going to be the quote This session Yeah, a build a base before you touch anything. You know, build some build a connection with your with your host. It's, it's so important. Oh, there was just I didn't not like that that email. And it's actually from an from a pretty big agency which frustrated me even more. And yeah, no, not a good not a good do we I'm happy to answer some more some more questions actually first, can you? Can you share a bit more about your follow ups and what you love doing?

Yeah. So when I do when I do this, I'm actually do pretty much something similar like probably not to the degree of detail that that other person did. But I love what they what they did when, like, Oh, yes, just like following up with the insight to like current podcast episodes, that's not something I have done before. I tend to just take, like, hey, hope you doing well. And, um, I let them know because I follow up in that thread in the same thread. So like, they can see the original pitch. But I just circle back with a summary. Like, oh, hey, I'm curious if you're interested at all in having this conversation about x y Zed, because I know, blah, blah, blah. And again, I'll reiterate why it's relevant for them anyway, even if it's not in relation to a present day episodes, but I'll still share why it's relevant, but not in that amount of detail that was already in the original pitch that they can go back and look for themselves by just kind of have a Cliff's Notes version of the pitch deck, just normally with a topic, why it's still relevant. I hope to hear back from you soon, either way. And I always say like, either way, something that helps remind them that I know, is their podcast. So they don't have to tell me? A Yes. You know, like, this is their choice. So by saying something like, either way, acknowledges that, like, yes, you're in full control, whether you say yes or no to me, you know. So I do something just similar to that. I don't just say that I'm certainly that any thoughts? Like I don't, I don't tend to do that I always like, you know, do with like a little summary of what was what was said already. But just like making it shorter and shorter each time, just like removing, like a layer of detail, it was already done in in the previous thread, but I only follow up like up to three times. And other than that, I don't write them off, per se. But if I still think it's relevant, you know, for potential collaboration, then I will circle back probably like three to six months after, I used to be a lot more diligent with this. But now because I'm extremely, extremely mindful of who I collaborate with now, I tend to only pick a small handful, and I know, there's like 95% chance that is going to be going through because I would have built a relationship with them. But back then, when I didn't have such close relationships with everybody, I pitched him I challenge that I would have done the follow up process like that. But now, you know, I tend to stay on their radar. And so that's something you can also do, it's kind of like an unspoken follow up, where you stay on their radar anyway, so on their social media, when they're posting the episode, leave a comment. And, you know, tag tag them in your stories, when you're listening to episode, there's a way to follow up without actually having to follow up and you stay on their radar like that. They will recognise your name after a couple of touch points. And it's and then that might be the great time to actually pop in the follow up. And by the way, I'm curious to see what your thoughts are. When it comes to that the length in between follow ups, like how many days is okay? And what is it too pushy? When is it too late is too long? Like, I'm curious what that is like for you.

I actually have a week before my original pitch. And the first follow up, I will leave about a week. And what I do is, I mean it's not something that I do, like, you know, consciously go and be present on their social media in general, whoever I'm interested in being a guest on whoever I like as a host and I would like to be a guest on their podcast, I follow them, you know, I read their emails, I may even reply to a newsletter, I comment on your stuff and comment on your story. You know, I'm, I'm engaged in their their content anyway, because I'm interested. And that as you said, it's helps form that relationship. But between that first pitch and that follow up, I do like to be able to be a little bit more active. So that they see they see my name and they kind of you know, it's Oh wait, I saw her name somewhere and plus My name is pretty unique. complicated name somewhere unique. Yeah. So it's, it's a little it's a little easier. But it's, it's it's not something that to do like okay, I sent a pitch. I'm gonna go and stalk them on social media. It's just natural. You you're in there, you follow them anyway, so there's a week between vaping And the first, the first follow up, and then we think it's like, still like, five, maybe five working days. I don't do like every second day because honestly, like, I know people are busy. And I also almost need them to forget me a little bit to be like, Ah, crap, I forgot, of course, let me let me go and check in check it out. So that's for me personally, I know what about you? Same.

I, when I do follow ups myself, I would leave at least a week in between, because I just acknowledged people are busy. And something that popped up for me just now in my head. Pay attention to people's autoresponders if they have one, and they will let you know their timeframe that they tend to respond as well. Because if you email me, you'll know my auto responder says, Hey, I don't respond. I don't know word for word, to be honest. But it's something along the lines of like, look, I will respond when I have the energetic capacity to do so. And so this may not be in the usual timeframe that you would normally expect. And I just want to set those expectations now. And I just got a comment yesterday from a founder of a coaching academy. She said her team members, so my autoresponders that oh, we might have to borrow some of that gorgeous language because setting boundaries, yo. And I was like, Oh, yeah. So all that to say at least a week, because I acknowledge people are busy. You know, and I'm not going to pretend that the world revolves around my pitch because it doesn't, so it doesn't. Oh, yeah. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, Anna.

So I'm looking at the time, and I just want to make sure that we have a little room for any one who would like to share any reflections or any questions. If you do have anything that you want to say if you could type a one in the chat, whether it's reflectional question that doesn't matter, but to one just so that we know just to like, have some space for you, because we would love to hear any thoughts that you have, or any questions that you have for Gigi and or myself. But yeah, so as we are waiting, Gigi, is there anything in particular that you want to say? Because I'm going to pop, I'm going to reshare the screen where people can go and stay connected with you. So I thought

if we if we have like five, I'll try to do it in five minutes. We can quickly do the chat GBT. I feel like it talks about it. And I feel like it would be it would have been nice to just forget about it. So if anyone wants to volunteer perhaps, and tell me even you know, if somebody wants for us to use them as example, to write a potential Chad GBT AI pitch, I would just need like to know a little bit more about your industry and kind of like a topic that you would be interested in talking about. And we can just see what it pops out. I think AI is scaring a lot of people right now myself included as a creative as a designer, you know, there was so much tog that she's going to become obsolete and nobody's going to hire a brand and web designers anymore. And I think is it's a great example to show that Chen do AI can be a really good tool to help us support us, but it's not going to replace human connection and personality. So that's why I wanted to do this quick exercise. If anyone feels that they want to you know do want to put themselves forward just write in the chat.

Yeah, just write one in the number one if you want to. Otherwise do you're more than welcome to use yourself as a Yeah, you know, because obviously you know your industry inside and out. Oh, we have a volunteer, we have a volunteer.

Our amazing if feel free if you want to unmute yourself. If not you can also just write in the chat.

Hello. Okay, so I am a brand designer and a system designer. And so I work specifically with neurodivergent people and topics are generally talking about how your business can be tailored, or I'm sorry tailored to your specific needs. So like benefits of thinking outside of the box rejecting conventional business ideas? Advice,

stuff like this is really great stuff hold up my mind doesn't work that quickly. I can't information. One thing with with any AI they're trainable, right. So we need to tell them who we want them to act as. So I need you to act as a brand designer. And I correct me just a Just my value. You said brand designer and

system specialist says for who? For neurodivergent creative business owners

Okay, so this is who we want them to act us. I, I need you to it's such a weird AI you have to be so like precise in your language and sometimes it feels like sometimes I still write Please can you write? And don't forget that this is a machine and you don't want to be a

socialite?

Would you mind taking the time? All right, I need you to write I want to be a guest on a podcast and I need you to write a pitch for the podcast host the pitch a needs to introduce me and tell them that I would like to talk to their audience about

three times yes.

So like the power of being unconventional? I'm the benefits of thinking outside of the box. And identifying strategies for neurodivergent business owners. Oh no, stop

stop generating. Sorry, not you not stop us. Sorry, number three. Can you repeat that please?

Ah identifying strategies for neurodivergent business owners think it's what I said.

neurodivergent neurodiverse gent business owners

actually, let's let's let them let the machine figure out this. So I need you to act as a brand design assistance specialist for neurodivergent creative business owners. I want to be a guest on a podcast. And I need you to write a pitch for the podcast host. The pitch needs to introduce me and tell them that I would like to talk to their audience about these topics. Let's see what it creates. Let's see what comes up. All right.

I'm so curious about this because wow.

Okay, so it didn't understand you see it presents you as it acts as an agency presenting your so it didn't understand.

So first is first we can see that, okay, we didn't you know, it actually is executing what we asked it to but it does exactly what those pitches that to start talking about you first and basically saying how amazing you are, have extensive knowledge and experience in helping individuals who think differently. I don't know if it describes it correctly. But for me, personally, as a podcast host I love first seeing that the the the guests, the potential guests actually listen to my, to my podcast. And if you tell me at the very beginning, you know, hey, Gigi, I really loved your recent episode on how to find clients, especially when you talk about this strategy. And I actually implemented it and you know, got a couple of leads. I'm just brainstorming here. This tells me that okay, this person knows me this, they listen to my podcasts, I'm ready to now listen to you and what you have to say. For me, it's all it's an automatic, you know, hey, I'm interested. However, a lot of the times when the pitches that are received especially from agencies, they go right in introducing the guest without ever talking about the value that they will bring to my audience or showing me that they know who I am and what my podcast is about. So the way I use I actually use chat GBT a lot. It's especially for someone who's English you know, English is not my first language not my second not my third. And it's sometimes I make mistakes or I overcomplicate things that I write and it helps me bring clarity into what in what I write, but you can see that the A Woods it's popped out is so as it may neurodivergent individuals successful entrepreneur is passionate about sharing their essays on how embracing unconventional thinking can be a superpower in business. It should. It's interesting that it added more to your topic. So not just, you know, power being unconventional but also, you know how it can be a superpower in business. I would love to discuss the power of being unconventional and the benefits of thinking outside the box in today's fast paced and ever changing business landscape. It's pretty crazy that it like it's throw this out there in like three seconds. Also understands the unique challenges that you are diverting digital space when started in running your business as someone who has navigated these challenges is uniquely positioned to offer valuable advice and identify strategies for neurodivergent business owners. It's actually I mean, it's it's quite interesting, the way that it's phrases it, it does like a little bit of personality. And also, I think, acknowledging, you know why you believe this would apply to their audience. Why this is a good topic for for them. And finally, I believe that I would make an excellent guest on your podcast, and I highly recommend them as a thought leader. Okay, so because it's from a third person is not as personalised but hey, not about bass notes, then go and improve on to write your own personalised pitch. So you can play around with Chad GBT, there are tonnes of different AI tools out there as well. But Chad jpg is quiet quite strong, too, then what you can do is that you can take that and then say, okay, use this is a base. Now I want to add, sometimes I add the I asked him to add humour. And I'm like, forget about the humour. You do not have humour. You cannot do that just yet. So, um, so yeah, I think it's, it's pretty interesting exercise and something that you can experiment on.

Wow. Oh, okay. Oh, vessel, Ella, what do you think about this, what you saw just now because, um, even though there's very minimal context provided, the way that the chat GVT like just elaborated on it. I thought that was fascinating. But just like, how would you you said, because it was written from a third person perspective, is it like personality, but which you can actually go in and add, you know, to take taking this as a base that we can touch? But yeah, well, that's definitely not the full picture. But it definitely can provide you with a preview of what there is to be. So that's really, really interesting. Absolutely. Absolutely. Saying the comments are fun and helpful gets good to know. Thanks, Petra, as well. Is is pretty interesting. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, we're actually at time i like GG. I'm not sure if you have an extra couple minutes to talk like this. Okay. If not, and if anybody is already, like, you know, tapped out is that's totally okay. This has been recorded for this very reason. But are there any final thoughts or questions? For those of you who are still here with us? live right now. And as you who are watching this recording, or we've got anything else, and Gigi, are there any parting thoughts yourself that you would like to share after reviewing these just today?

I mean, I think at the end of the day, a personalised pitch is always going to to be better, you know, a pitch that really focuses on the on the host and their podcasts and their audience, showing that you you care showing that you're here to provide value. And I think that's big, since you're here, you probably already have everything that it takes to write, you know, start writing much better pitches than what I showed you. What it showed you today, you know, the mistakes that are out there. You know, what you have to offer, and now it's about writing and practising and putting yourself putting yourself out there. I think we often have so many ideas and things that we would like to do and out of fear, we are not taking that step forward. And with podcasting, I'm always just like, just just do it. Just send a couple of pitch pitches because your first pitches are going to be your worst. And the scariest. And that's absolutely okay. We're all here to learn and experiment and grow. But you have to recognise how amazing podcasting is because I told this to my students yesterday, podcast guessing is a marketing strategy. I think it's one of the best strategies out there, because not only it puts you in front of a new audience, it allows you to share value your knowledge show up as an expert to other people. It also helps you build connections and build a relationship with the host. It creates marketing material From you, in form of audio, you can write a blog post about that episodes, you can ask the host for any video. You know, clips, if it's if it's a video podcast, it's just one of those marketing strategies that does everything. And it's very rare. So I really hope that you're gonna, you know, you will use this as a marketing strategy to grow your exposure this year and beyond. Yes,