Good morning. Good morning, everyone. May we begin the meeting? Oh, yeah. This is how we start. Oh, yeah, guys colleagues, good morning. It's past 10 o'clock in the morning. I hope you had a pleasant night yesterday because we had a nice session under my fellow Vice Chairs. Thank you, thank you for the quiet.
Well excellencies distinguished representatives, ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to you all who are participating remotely. Where we will now continue with the consideration of Agenda Item three, entitled The revised draft text of the convention. My name is Koichi Warisawa, and I'm one of the vice chairs elected at the beginning of the session this morning or this Monday, I should say. And following instructions of the chair, and as per the methodology of work proposed by her, I will be guiding our discussion on the chapters on preventive measures, technical assistance and information exchange, that mechanism of implementation and final provisions. I'm very honored and humbled to be sitting here to assist the work of the committee, meaning ourselves and I try my best our special effort to contribute to the committee in its discussions on these four very important chapters
Excellencies before I begin, I would like to beg your indulgence to allow me to remind you one very important point. This is what my fellow vice chairs, George, and Briony and the chair herself stressed at the beginning of each meeting they lead this week that it is worth repeating. We only have very few we meetings to consider these four chapters and reach agreement the referendum. With this in mind, I hope that our discussions will continue to be guided by a spirit of compromise and flexibility. Please, we might be reminded to make only such proposals that are absolutely necessary and without which you cannot accept part of this text or two offer alternative language that is closer to consensus that our current draft. Please be reminded to make concise and specific statements only. And as the Chair mentioned, this is the final session of our ad hoc committee. And as a result, we must make the best use of the time we have available.
As done yesterday, we will use the speech timer which will be best which will be set to three minutes. During the consideration of Agenda Item three delegations will therefore have three minutes to speak each time. Let me repeat how it works. When you are given the floor you will be given three minutes to speak. Once you have one minute left, your microphone will start to blink so the two minutes have left you the microphone that will start to blink. When your time is up, the three minutes up, your microphone will be silenced automatically. And I thank you for your cooperation in advance.
Now I will be starting with chapter VI on preventive measures. This chapter is consists of single article which is article 53. On preventive measures streamline on preventive measures. This article streamlines proposals made by Member States and articles 512 and 13 of UNCAC and 31 of our UNTOC the only changes that have been made to the original draft were the deletion in paragraph two paragraph three B of the word and contribute to its non tolerance and inclusion of paragraph 3G encouraging service providers to take effective preventive measures
excellencies are discussed in the sixth session have shown that we can reach agreement on this chapter in an efficient manner. Now, I would like to proceed with this article 53 based on the observations that I've mentioned just now, may I take it, that other committee agrees with the chapter and preventive measures that was contained in this draft of the convention? Now, I will open the floor to you.
Yes, I see the United States. That is the state's you have the floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, and good morning to colleagues. I wonder if we can although you pointed out the new language if we can step through just relatively quickly the entire chapter on the screen so we can see it. I thought there were some additions that were made that I don't know if they were been captured or not thank you very much.
Thank you United States, I think the the wording is on the screen now.
I will take a few minutes to consider you to consider the wording and language proposed on the screen. But in the meantime, if anybody has a yes I see Egypt, I will give the floor to Egypt.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, dear colleagues, I would highly appreciate just for clarification, Mr. Chair, whether there is an amendment in the text comparing to the the revised text that we had already working on in this in this session and I would highly appreciate it if you can reflect the the text also in this screen because this one is for for those who are sitting in in the side of the room that would be highly appreciated. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you think Korea is on the material technical issue of showing that text on the other side of the screen. The technicians are now working on it. So please have some time for us. And in terms of the rationale about the changes that have been made for the rd TC, this is something that I have already mentioned at the beginning of the before the opening of this part of this session that article 53 Well, the explanatory note is already on the website of the AHC I think you have already gone through that but I can repeat that, again here. This is the changes that have been made. For this article. The only changes that have been made to the original draft were the deletion of paragraph three B of the words and contribute to its non tolerance. So yet 3d and inclusion of paragraph 3d on encouraging service providers to take effective preventive measures. That's the whole paragraph. That's that was included in this text.
And I see on the list, Iran, Islamic Republic of, Iran, you have the floor now.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulation to you for your appointment as the vice chair of this ad hoc committee. And good morning to you and all of the distinguished delegations today. Mr. Chairman, my delegation would like to propose to minor change and suggestions in article 53 of the draft text in paragraph two of the article 53, we propose to add, authorized us authorized relevant stakeholder as you know that regarding for the definition of the stakeholder and now the considering has been taking place in the informal meetings, and so, it is whether to put here authorize, as the one are suggesting preliminary suggestion, until that we are going to have a very exact definition of the stakeholder. And in subparagraph D subparagraph D 3 My delegation would like to propose requiring or urging, instead of encouraging and after that secure and in that subparagraph. We propose to add and safety after the security in the third line of that sub paragraph. And in paragraph . G after in the fourth line. After the prevention, my delegation would like to propose this wording after the prevention, removing criminal content and its advertisement. This it means that the deactivation of the access to criminal content. Thank you, Mr. Chairman in if I preserved my rights, the other articles we have this amendment as well. Thank you.
Thank you around for your proposal. Any other delegation who wants to speak? or Yes, I see Egypt, Egypt, you have the hello again.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thanks for the clarification that you had made regarding the my question pertaining to whether there is a new amendments or not to what we had I understand from your comment, Mr. Chair that there is no additional amendments to what we already got in the our DTC and we thank you for this clarification that you had explained to the already changes that took place comparing to the the tax that was introduced during the six, six fashion. Mr. Chair regarding article 53. First of all, there is a reference to the term stakeholders. And this term is not yet have adopted or defined in the use of terms committee or Coordination Committee, I think that it would be we are not in a position to pronounce ourselves regarding the use of this term now, till we finalize its definition and how it will be placed there maybe at the end of the of the of the negotiations, we might return to the use of the categories that already illustrated in the own token UNCOC, of course, in addition to the private sector, because of their importance in assisting the member states to prevent and combat the use of ICTs for criminal purposes. So, I would highly appreciate it Mr. Chair, to consider going through this article or chapter, para paper, and with with understanding that we are not in a position to have a consensus on the use of the any paragraph that has mentioned the stakeholders. Thank you, sir.
Thank you, Egypt for your constructive comment on the methodology of the proceedings today. Well, in terms of the methodology, I have in mind, two possible approaches, especially on this chapter, or article, article 53, which is a single article consisted of many powers and sell powers. I would like to see the water, if I may say sell, to test the water of this room. What sort of proposals and how many proposals you have, from many, from different delegations, on different parts of this article. And I would like to see that continue this webpage for the title moment to see if we can have any common ground, if not the different views on different parts of this article. But mostly open to another or the other methodology, which my colleague chose, took in yesterday's session, namely, going through the article para by para, which might be also conducted contract constructive for the possible agreement on this power on this chapter. So I think Egypt for that again, but I will continue doing this for the moment. If the room agrees, so and I have another delegation on my list, and I will give the floor and it 's back rain behind you have the Florida
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We propose a an amendment on paragraph g of the third article to replace persons in vulnerable situations and to replace it with those who need care and support because we feel this would be more comprehensive in its meaning Thank you.
Thank you for hearing how I see Egypt, Egypt. Hello.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and we are in your hands regarding the way that you are seeing appropriate for moving forward and we will support any proposal in this pertaining to the methodology Mr. Chair. So from our point of view, we acknowledge again the role of the stakeholders and but Egypt during the previous sessions had proposed. Informal Sessions had proposed some minor amendments to paragraph two to add In the last line before the before the prevention relevant aspects of So, here we are trying to to make sure that not all the stakeholders will be involved with in, in the prevention in general, but the relevant aspects aspects are in this regard taking into consideration that, for example, the academia cannot make the or prevent or combat like the private sector for example, that will assist the member states in in this regard. So, and I think that it is important to highlight that there are relevant aspects or aspects of prevention that might each stakeholder can address in assisting the member states in this regard. So, that brings me to paragraph three of paragraph subpar a, again, we are proposing of relevant aspects of preventing and combating, taking into consideration again, that this is a you know, for brainstorming for the time being taking that bearing in mind that we didn't agree yet on what is the definition of stakeholders for just you know, for the info of the distinguished colleagues to reflect on to a later stage of negotiations. In paragraph three para g understands and supports the idea that was proposed by the distinguished delegation of Bahrain regarding this article, but we, we think that we might need to delete the last sentence
Egypt. I'm afraid the microphone is now automatically turned off. Since you're in the middle of your intervention. And I since I don't see any other delegations requesting for the floor, I can give you the floor again. Is up, do you have the floor up?
Thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chair. Just to finish my intervention, we suggested the deletion of taking into consideration the special circumstances and needs of persons in vulnerable situations. And we are looking forward to hear the other proposals from other distinguished colleagues in this regard. Thank you.
Thank you, Egypt for your proposal. Now I see no other delegation that was requesting for the floor. And also from the discussion so far. I understand that there has been some there have been a couple of or more than a couple of comments and proposals around the role of stakeholders, especially on paragraph two. And paragraph three is some some sub powers of paragraph three. It's the question is around the roles of stakeholders and stakeholders, depending on the discussion on terminology, which is underway, the discussion of which is still underway in different tools. And other than that, I don't see any other comments from other delegations. So if I may, I would like to take that another approach that the district delegate of Egypt has mentioned at the beginning of the session, which is to agree on agreeing on paragraphs that are that have haven't seen any comment from the allegations under this chapter. I see no Comment from the allegations regarding the paragraph one of article 53. So, may I take it that the committee now agrees on the revised draft text of the convention as it sounds as put on screen? I see no objection. I see no comment now request. So, the paragraph one of article 53 is agreed on the referendum.
And moving on to the paragraph 2 which I have seen some comments and proposals have been proposed by delegations. I will now leave it open to discussions at a later stage.
And moving on to paragraph three, which has a number of sub powers out of those powers sub powers I should say. I have seen some comments proposals from some delegations. That in terms of Armadale, others have peros namely sub para a sub I'm sorry, I should say sub para b sub para c d should be under discussion and sub para E sub Perez e f i j k l I haven't seen any comments from delegations. So I will now go through those sub powers attempting to agree how para by sub para under sub under paragraph three
I see on the list united states and the states you have the Florida
thank you I couldn't hear myself thank you. We went to look at three j if we can on the screen and we've previously discussed this this edit but like to suggest where to seek receive to strike publish and disseminate and replace that with and impart information concerning so rather than publish and disseminate to say and impart I'll send you back to some of the comments made by the distinguished delegate from Egypt a bit earlier today on the role of stakeholders and just want to reiterate our strong strong desire to see that language included very clearly here as it stated now thank you
thank you that is states
and now the comments from other delegations
okay subject to sub powers that are still under discussion apart from those power sub powers are will now go through cell Paris doubt seem to be seems to have a potential to be agreed on our the referendum in this room unless you have any other comments okay. So, we all go to sell power. We could we take it as agreed on how the referendum I will take a moment of view to make sure that anybody can The nobody has any comment. Okay. The sub para be under paragraph three of article 53 is agreed, or the referendum.
Now moving on to sub para C in the same methodology. Does anybody any delegation have any comment? Or otherwise? Oh, yes. I see a couple of member states on my list. First is El Salvador, followed by the European Union. El Salvador, you have the floor now,
thank you, Mr. Chair, regulations on your appointment to lead this meeting today. Now, generally speaking in in line with the what our delegation stated yesterday, we'd like to explain that our delegation can support article 53. However, based on what we've already stated in formal mission, sessions are our national positions expressed in this committee and other relevant forums, El Salvador is seeing a growing number of threats that are evolving quickly in scale and intensity in the digital sphere. And Bearing this in mind and acknowledging that prevention is a an initial and crucial line of defense in the area of security of information. In the past session, we propose an inclusion in this chapter on preventive measures. This preventive measure that we propose, seeks to safeguard the investigators of cybersecurity that are dedicated to investigating practices such as hacking, and other activities that are carried out without criminal intentions. The idea of these measures is aimed at identifying certain things quickly. Aiming to remedy the situation. My Country considers that incorporating this provision or this measure in this chapter is essential to enhance cybersecurity at the global level. We're flexible to discuss this given the concerns that some states can have with regard to this proposal, specifically with regard to the challenges, this presents at the level of national legislation, thank you for your attention.
Thank you, El Salvador, Mejia Yasser El Salvador, is your proposal to add extra new paragraph under this article? Or is it something more fundamental to make the to make a change of the what should I say a status of this article or chapter? I would like to ask for your more clarification elaborate on it. Thank you.
Gracias. Thank you, Chairman. We are will prepare language and we'll submit it to the Secretariat so that it can be examined and taken into account in a timely fashion. Thank you.
Thank you, El Salvador. Thank you. We will be waiting for your proposal in specific terms. And we are open to discussion on your proposal at a later stage. Thank you. Now going back to the Speaker's list, I have the European Union by lace the European Union. You have the floor not.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm honored to speak on behalf of the EU and its member states. The EU is supportive of this, of course of this article, which is very important when it comes to addressing cybercrime. We just wanted to highlight that, due to the fact that we have parallel negotiations and discussions. We will be mindful of that, as was raised also by distinguished delegates of Egypt regarding the issue on terminology that it's being discussed in parallel that might affect these provisions. And this is also true for the scope. So we have references to offenses that are covered by this convention, which you also know the scope is being also discussed. So just wanted to clarify or that I think if we agree that referendum or tax that this should be with the caveat that, of course, the understanding that that might be some negotiations that might affect the text. And the final text of these these provisions. And in terms of amendments, and the US is generally supportive of the text and open also to consider other proposals, as we just heard from, for example, from Salvador, we would have a small maybe editorial adjustment in three h paragraph three h, which regards making efforts to remove Child Sexual Abuse material, which is a very important effort. However, the wording might need to maybe reconsider using the word immediate removal as might not always be technically possible. Maybe we could think rephrasing this in a way that say would say, as well as making efforts to, to remove or making efforts to guarantee the prompt removal. But this is just, we wanted to propose this as for the consideration of the room. But like I said, we are generally supportive of the text as proposed. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, European Union. On your point about some of the issues that are currently under discussion in parallel to the plenary? Yes, we are, we can come back to those articles and paragraphs anytime in dependence, I should say, depending on the outcome of the other discussions that are going on. And thanks for the proposal as to the paragraph three sub para page. I have another request from Burkina Faso on Biolase. So I'll give the floor to Burkina Faso now. Massey, Mr. President,
thank you, Mr. Vice Chair bikina fossa notes that article 53 paragraph three initially F became became G then match mentioned it mentions taking into consideration the special circumstances and needs of persons in vulnerable situations we see that this mentioned still remains and we want to reiterate our position that we want to see that phrase deleted Thank you.
Thank you both. So since I see no obligation requesting for the floor, I would like to go back to my methodology of going through sub paragraphs which seem to be gathered seems to have gathered support from the room generally. So I think we were in the middle of sub para c. Yes. And I would like to ask you, if any of any delegations has in comment or proposal to language otherwise may I take it that the committee now agrees our the referendum on soft power see under paragraph three, article 53 chapter six. I see no request. So we agreed on subpara c ad referendum.
Now we're moving on to Sub Para d under para three Since this is a new text on RT TC, based on the discussions that we had in the sixth session of AHC. I would rather like to request who are called on you to have your comments on the text or otherwise, I will go on to following sub Paris because I would like to keep this sub para d open for the moment for your consideration.
Okay, let's move on to sub para e. I haven't seen any comment or proposal to the formulation to the current formulation of the text on sub para e. I would like to ask you if we can take it take this sub power E as agreed on the other referendum? I see no. Request. So let's say it's agreed.
Now moving on to sub para f in the same methodology. Does any does any delegation have any common comments or requests for clarification comments or otherwise we agree on the separate health as well.
Sub para G I think we have some comments from a couple of delegations so far. So I will keep this sub para Oh, yes, I see. orchestral Cameroon. So I will give you the floor to Cameroon followed by Cabo Verde. A massive should have Thank
you Vice Chair for giving the Florida the delegation of Cameroon we wish to share our concern the concern has to do with the presence in sub para g of gender based violence. As highlighted previously, we said here we wanted to see that treated in the preamble to address the issue of gender. Because it seems to me that we agreed here that in order to strike a balance between those that are for the question of gender and those that are more reserved that we would handle this in the preamble and we would add in accordance with the domestic law of each state. My country is highly reserved when it comes to the presence of this issue here in Superior G I thank you
thank you Cameroon. As I said we can always come back to the issues under this article under this paragraph that are interconnected with other issues that are might be cross cutting across the convention text or could be under discussion out in other route. So I note that and I would like to give the floor to cover Virgina.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Okay for the support the test as draft 3G including the retention of gender based violence and needs of persons in vulnerable situations.
Thank you Cabo. Very day
I see no other legation requesting for the floor for now. So yes, I have Pakistan wireless Pakistan have the floor.
Thank you Chair, I just want to reiterate the position of my delegation calling for deletion of paragraph 3G, because in the eyes of the law, all individuals are equal. And the context of gender based violence is generally accorded special treatment, which need to be redefined. The context of people in vulnerable situations is subjective and broad. And we would ask for deletion of it. Thank you.
Thank you, Pakistan. Now we have Paraguay on list, Paraguay, you have the law. See?
Yes, the Republic of Paraguay is in favor of the original text with regard to article 53 on preventive measures. Thank you.
Thank you back back why, and I have another delegation requesting for the floor. I think it's around Iran, you have the floor now.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My delegation would like to support the position made by distinguished delegation of Pakistan. Thank you.
Thank you, Ron. I have two more delegations requesting floor now. But at the same time, I would like to move forward, while keeping this South power g because it is clear now that this power is under discussion. And we can do this at a later stage. And in the meantime, I would like to go through the sub Paris that seem to be agreeable by all member states in this room. So after I give the floor to Mexico, followed by the United States that are on the list already, I will go back to the methodology of going through Sal Perez, that can be agreed upon at the referendum. But for the moment, I will be I will give the floor to Mexico. Next speaker, you have the floor.
Thank you, Chairman. I'll be very brief. Just as their speakers, Mexico's in favor of retaining a bear G in its original form, including the reference to gender and persons in vulnerable situations. Thank you.
Thank you, Mexico, and the United States, you have the floor.
Thank you chair and in respect of your methodology, I will be very short in responding to subparagraph G. Another delegate mentioned the mention of gender in the preamble, and we just want to clarify the gender mainstreaming is quite different from gender based violence, which is quite rampant through the use of information and communication technologies. So we strongly support as Mexico did as well retaining subparagraph G in its current form. Thank you.
Thank you, United States. For your clarification. I have your clarification or contribute to the discussion at a later stage. We have another member state on my list. I will give the flow to Costa Rica but after Costa Rica, I will go back to the Vanuatu Yes, let's stop it there. After giving the Florida two delegations, I would like to go through South powers that seem to be agreeable. But for now, Costa Rica you have the floor not grab.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just very briefly, because to rica wholeheartedly supports the paragraph that we're currently discussing in plenary, as United States said we consider that gender based violence must be covered under the measures in this article. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Costa Rica, and Vanuatu have the floor.
Thank you, Vice Chair bhanwar to support in its entirety. Article 53 on preventative measures without any dilution and that includes the retention of paragraph three G Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair
Thank you Vanassa for your comment I have other requests from the floor from the delegations, but I would like to ask the allegations who have already asked for to speak I can assure you that we will have discussions on these paragraph paragraph three under Article 53 particularly sal para je because it's under discussions and we have different perspectives, different views and different language. We will definitely discuss this at later stage bell on due to time constraints before us I would rather go through other cell peros trying to narrow down the issues on our table so as to make the best use of our time because this plenary session has only two hours to go and this morning session and I would like to ask delegations who are requesting the floor now you may have your floor after at later stage either in an informal setting or the plenary setting. Thank you for your understanding I only have one Thank you. Thank you. Thanks very much for your cooperation I will assure you that you you will have the floor up later stage and we will discuss this cell power okay so let's go back to the sub powers that may see beggary seem agreeable South power age we definitely have discussions on this South Barrow so well we'll leave it open later discussion but
for the moment going on to South powers sub para i May we take it as agreed on at the referendum on this SATA i I see no request for the floor from the delegations. So let's say it's done are the referendum sub array
Okay, so let's move on. On sub para j we definitely had some comments to the current formulation so I'll leave it open for now but
I'm going on to the next cell para which is supper K which I don't think we had any oh yes no, I see no request I see a flush of name of a member state on my list but fairness now so I take it as there's no comment Okay, let's let's agree sub para que are the referendum now.
So we have the last cell power under paragraph three not separable l may we take it as agreed on the referendum? It sapper L I see no request for the floor. So just how parallel is agreed are the referendum okay. We have come to the end of the paragraph three.
And now we are I see United Kingdom down on the list. I will give the floor to United Kingdom please.
Oh thank you Chair I'm sorry for coming in slightly late on this paragraph but I think in L the UK would like to see The the phrase would like to see articles six to 16 of this convention inserted just to make it clear what what this paragraph is focused on. And this is similar to comments we've made previously around just improving the clarity of drafting so that we can all implement these things better.
Thank you, the United Kingdom. He mentioned is your proposal is to insert Article Six to 16 of I presume that goes between the word with our this convention. So it varies in accordance with Article 6 to 16 of discrimination. Yes, thank you. Thank you for clarification.
So for the clarifications sake for my side, since we had a comment from the United Kingdom, on SAP para el, it's not as it's not agreed at the referendum.
But I would like to open the floor on this salpa For now, since we had a proposal coming from the United Kingdom. Oh, yes, I see Egypt on my list is do you have the floor?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I would like to commend your able leadership in in this exercise and regarding the proposal by the distinguished delegation of the UK, Egypt cannot go along with it taking into consideration that it limits the the list of crimes that will be included in this convention, taking into consideration that the protocol there is an article for additional protocol. And also, I think that it's it's there is a bigger discussion now and regarding the scope regarding the risk of crime, and I think that it would be premature to to pronounce our final say regarding whether we are going to the offense established in accordance with this convention or other phrase that will cover or address this issue. So I think that for the time being let's move on to another paragraph or article, if it suits the rest of the delegations. And I think Mr. Sherr that since I have taken the floor, I can give you the Egyptian support for Article Three, para three sub para de as well, since it is a new one. And we can support paragraph D. Thank you.
Thank you. Yes. Yes, I agree. On your comment in terms of going through other cell powers or paragraphs that may seem agreeable, but for the moment, I have other delegations requesting before the fall, so I will give the floor to Russian Federation, the Russian Federation, you helped flow.
Thank you, Chairman. The Russian delegation shares the position of Egypt on the subparallel Thank you.
Thank you, Russian Federation. I see Yemen, Yemen you have the floor.
Thank you. On the scope of application, and as mentioned yesterday. If we mentioned articles that six to 16. This will entail several amendments to different articles and paragraphs. I believe it's better than to wait for an agreement on the scope of application. At the end of the day, we can agree on the linkage depending on what we agree on in terms of the scope of application and articles from six to 16, as well as all offenses established in accordance with the convention. And we know that articles from one to 16 Identify the offenses, we also support an expansion or extending the definition of criminal organization of electronic crimes, because they are new crimes that are likely to develop with time. Thank you.
Thank you, Yemen. And thank you for your advice. Yes. It seems to me that it's clear now that we have different perspectives. And the issue is also connected with the scope of application the issue, especially the criminalization chapter. So, what I would like to do now is to go on to the following paragraphs, namely paragraphs four, on the words under this article, unless I, I have several member states on my list, requesting for the floor. So I will give the floor to Australia first, followed by Central African Republic, Australia, please.
Thank you, Chair, as this is the first time that Australia is taking the floor today, I wanted to express our strong support for the retention of subparagraph, three G along with Paraguay, the United States, a Costa Rica and Fatah to, for example. And that's the paragraph in relation to gender based violence and persons in vulnerable situations. In relation to paragraph three, l. We agree with the UK that the convention should be clear that the cybercrimes established in accordance with this convention are those in articles six to 16. And we appreciate that this brings up a question about the unclear scope of this convention. And we appreciate that there are then links to the ongoing informal discussions on scope. Thank you.
Thank you, Australia. And I will give the floor to Central African public.
Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Since this is the first time that my delegation is taking the floor in this closing session, I'd like to congratulate you for the way you're conducting your work. That said. My comment is on para 453. My delegation is in favor of this paragraph. But we would like to add the word after prevent the word sub suppress the each state partnership shall take appropriate measures to ensure that the relevant, competent authority or or or authority responsible for preventing or suppressing and combating because we're talking about, we need that it's not just about preventing but also suppressing. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Central African Republic. Thank you for your comment on the paragraph full. We will come back to this later on. That we have broken up first on my list. I will give the floor to Burkina Faso. Merci. Merci.
Thank you, Chairman. My delegation would like to support the language 53. Three L in its current form, as shown on the screen. Thank you.
Thank you, Burkina Faso. I see Armenia on my list. So Amina, you have the floor.
Thank you Chair very much. I don't want to that we make regress on this article, but I'm a bit confused with regards the paragraph three sub paragraphs K and L. On the one hand, it says developing or strengthening support programs for victims of the offenses covered by the convention, and the URL says related to defenses established in accordance with this convention. So if I understand correctly, first of all, I want to understand the difference between covered and established. And if I understand correctly, if we haven't yet reached a consensus on the scope of the convention, then I really don't understand how we can agree on the K, if we cannot agree on L. Thank you.
Thank you, Armenia, for a very important question that you raised. X, actually, I personally do have the same type of question. But since there hasn't been any comment on that point, I just let it go. But I see similar language, as we see in sub para que now reads covered by this convention, this language. We can see that in other paragraphs, and sub peros, separate a sub para B, and sell power see that since these are the power sell powers that are under the discussion, they're open for discussion, we can come back to this point at a later stage. And also, very similar to the question that Amelia raised for us. There is a word there is a language that reads the offenses covered by this convention, under paragraph two. And paragraph two, we have the similar but a little bit different type of language in there. So I would like to ask delegations, if we should come back to this point, namely that issue that is interconnected with the question on scope of application, and criminalization. And we come back to this at a later stage. Load together with all the questions. Yes, the United States is asking for the floor. I hope you might be able to help us out. Thank you and United States, you have the floor now.
Thank you, Chair. As you noted, just now, this question of offenses established by or if it's covered by is under discussion and other informal discussions that are taking place currently, we would recommend throughout this article, that that remain an open issue until we resolve which offenses are established by in which offences are covered by the convention. So perhaps we can we can add ref with the caveat that that issue just like the terminologies, issues that are here would remain open until we resolve those issues separately. Thank you.
Thank you United States that was very helpful. Yes, I agree with you. In terms of cell para que. It's clear that the this cell para que contains the title is the same type of issues that we see in other cell parents and paragraphs. But other than that, we see no comments or objections to the agreement on ser para que. So let's, let's have the sub para que agreed upon the other referendum with a caveat on the issue of scope application. So that was my proposal. I'll give you some time for consider for your consideration. But for the moment, I see Jamaica on my list, so I will give the floor to Jamaica for now.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. CARICOM has no difficulty with the approach you have proposed. Just to point out that similar language can be found in paragraph if we could just go up to paragraph F, which makes reference to convicted persons convicted of offenses covered by this convention. Just wanted to point that out. Mr. Chair, thank you.
Thank you, Jamaica for all the help that was very helpful as well. So we put the caveat on paragraph cell power f. Although for other parts of the cell power we have agreed upon
Okay. We have no other delegations requesting for the floor. Now, well, we are now Oh, yes, I see Egypt on my list, I will give you the floor to Egypt.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If it suits the distributed delegations to consider this, we can delete agreed at referendum in general, you know, instead of putting this disclaimer, I think that we are complicating issues. And, again, Article, paragraph three in general is a non mandatory in nature. It's not a mandatory one. So, the wider the scope doesn't cover which is covered by this convention doesn't preempt the any country to to to limit the scope at its domestic in accordance to its domestic law. So, the most important thing is not to minimize here in not, so, the wider scope, I can accept that all this sub par has to be in accordance with covered by this convention, but the not the opposite to limit the scope to the only the offenses established in accordance with Article Six to 16 This is a very limited scope. Again, the paragraph itself is non mandatory in nature. So but we are in your hands Mr. Chair, and again, you had given us the floor to reflect to or you have given us some time to reflect on our sub para de and I wonder if we can consider it before moving to paragraph four thank you
Thank you Egypt.
Well, thank you again. Now, after consideration, I would like to with some hesitation because I want it to narrow down the issues on the table. Try to have as many out of the referendum agreed on paragraphs and sub paragraphs as possible within the list limited time period. But I think you've had a point in saying that the covered by this convention and offenses covered by this convention of offensive satisfy this convention clearly have different meanings. It also depends on the substance of each paragraph contains that language in it. So what I would like to do now is to remove that are the referendum that have been put on some South powers including sub para que Yes. And leave it open for discussion at later stage.
And I also notice, and I also note that the paragraph two which is still under discussion from in terms of other issues as well, it's so it also has the similar language in it. So it's let's, let's leave this paragraph also to the same category. And colleagues, I hope you are following my methodology for just a moment. After going through this article I will reconfirm what has been agreed or the referendum or what has been not been agreed upon. So, for the moment, unless you have any questions or comments on this issue, I would like to or there's, oh, yes, I see. I have Yemen on my list, I will give you give the floor to Yemen for now.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We are now discussing preventive measures. And as you know, preventive measures that happen before a crime is perpetrated at aims to prevent crime doesn't have to do with penalties or with the differences in the criminalization from one country to another. So, connecting it to the scope of crimes is not useful in this context, because we are talking here about preventive measures that happened before a crime is perpetrated. So, a covered by this convention should be the wording that is sufficient because preventive measures can include or can be covered by general agreements or bilateral agreements, I do not believe that this article should be a problem, I believe that we should adopt a general wording and this should be enough to serve the purpose of the preventive measures. The aim after all is to prevent cybercrime and I believe if we adopt a general wording, our problem will be resolved. Thank you.
Thank you, Yemen for your comment. I understand, I understood that your perspective is particularly related to paragraph three sub para G, which in this current draft contains a gender based violence. And as I said before, we would definitely go back to this cell para along with others at a later stage. And I would like to encourage you to discuss this matter after all, after at the later stage. For now, I would like to go through remaining paragraphs under Article 53.
On paragraph four, we had a proposal from a delegation. So, this will be left out in moving on to Article paragraph five, I should say paragraph five the paragraph contains the language covered by this convention. Again, I think this paragraph might be on the discussion that is connected with the cash question on application scope of application or otherwise, we might be able to agreed on this paragraph out the referendum I would like to seek your comment on how we deal with sub para paragraph I should say paragraph five. We will be we will we leave this cell perhaps paragraph to a discussion for later stage together with others. I see no objections. So let's let's leave this paragraph for discussion at a later stage and I will like to go on to remaining paragraphs first. Paragraph six I haven't heard any comment on this paragraph so far, and this morning session but I will I'll leave this for discussion for now. If any of the delegations has any comment, or proposal I see no requests for the floor. On paragraph sick. Oh, yes, I see Yemen, I will give the floor to Yemen
on paragraph six second sentence, I said just adding aimed at the reduction and prevention of so I suggest the adding reducing reduction of cyber crimes because as I've already said, that's the preventive measures aim to reduce crimes. And this is why I proposed adding reduction and prevention of Thank you.
Thank you, Yemen for your comment. Any other delegations has any comment? Or proposal regarding article 53, paragraph six.
Or can we, I think I should give give us some some time for consideration of the proposal made by Yemen, just for now, just now. And in the meantime, I think I should go directly to paragraph seven while leaving para six, open for discussion at a later stage. Okay, so let's go on to paragraph seven. Does any allegation have any comment or proposal on this paragraph? It's paragraph seven.
I see no request for the floor. So as per my methodology in this morning session. The committee agrees on paragraph seven, under Article 53. May we take it as I agree are the referendum? I think we can. So let's say it's down. Okay. Well, thank you, colleagues, for your cooperation. Throughout this article, article 53. I think we have come to the end of this article, we have narrowed down some issues. While we agreed on some of the paragraphs and sub powers. I see a request from the United States. So I will give the floor to you and
thank you Chair for the productive discussion of this article, which we feel very strongly is very important and the commission would the Secretariat mind scrolling through from the top to the bottom for references here, as you discussed? I believe there are a couple of notes here where we have the issue of covered by versus established by where it is still marked as ad rough and we just want to see if we can clarify that as you scroll through no thank you
thank you United States that's exactly what I was trying to do. So I will go through the text to see if we had any agreed on paragraphs and Sal Perez so
Okay. I will go through paragraphs by paragraphs to make sure that we share understanding on the which was agreed on which was not. So paragraph one we have agreed on this paragraph here the referendum and under paragraph two sub para a has an issue under South Para under paragraph three, we have some paragraphs thrilled to help in agreed on the referendum after question was raised by member states out to the question on covered by this convention versus offense is covered by this convention article 66 to 16 of this convention. Salud para ser Perez A, B and C. have that question in there. So they haven't been agreed. Now the referendum on self-parody It's a new text, new text fresh. That was that appeared on the rd TC for the first time. This is this hasn't been agreed on anyway in any way. But following Power Cell powers power, so power r e. F, have been agreed on how the referendum Yes. SAP our G had some issues around it. Gender by gender based violence. So we will be coming back to this at later stage. Separate hasn't been agreed on. Sub para i i think it has been agreed at the referendum. J health some issue contained in there. K was agreed but has been cancelled? Because it contains the question I'm covered by the screen convention. l held that issue as well.
I see United Kingdom on my list. So I will give the floor to United Kingdom first.
Thank you chair. And I think perhaps for consistency I think also be contains the phrase posed by the offenses covered in this convention as well, which was one I think we've managed to previously make some progress on I think, colleagues, this wasn't sort of intended to I suppose to sort of hold up progress or sort of wasn't intended to get into a discussion around scope here. I think just from the UK perspective, it is important to know sort of what we're supposed to be preventing when we implement the things in this chapter. So I think it's just a drafting sort of issue that is obviously related to discussions that are going on in the informal so yeah, I just wanted to clarify our intention was more just to make sure that we can actually do the things that we sign up to in this chapter.
Thank you United Kingdom. I will remove out the referendum from South Para be outside Paris see. And I noticed your comment on the nature of the question. Taking consideration of the chapter, its preventive measures. I think it's yes, very much to do
Okay. It seems that we have a clear understanding of what has been agreed and what hasn't been agreed. And it's on screen as well. So unless you have any other comments
we will make sure that we have the same understanding. Other paragraphs under this article. We had a comment from Park from a member state asked to Article paragraph 4000, degreed. poweroff. Five, how's the same type of question contained? This is very much like the covered by this convention question. And I think we had a proposal from distinguished delegate of Yemen, on paragraph six, still under discussion. And paragraph seven has been agreed on the referendum. So this was to try to make sure that we have the same understanding. Okay, what I would like to do now is to go on to the next chapter, because I think we do need to have some time to consider new proposals for some parts of article 53 chapter six. And also we have a new fresh formulation in parallel to para three sub para de and I haven't heard much from member states on this paragraph. So I would like to come back to sub parody and paragraph three, again, for confirmation of your agreement.
Okay, let's go on to Chapter Seven, its technical assistance and the information exchange. To me, this chapter is one of the critical chapters contained in this convention that requires that require a higher level of spirit of cooperation, because of that needs because of the nature of this chapter. And we have three articles under this chapter. Namely articles 54 to 56. These articles follow articles six to 62 of UNCAC and 29 and 30 of them talk only a minor changes have been made in relation to the original draft. In Article 54, paragraph one particular consideration to the interests and needs of developing states has been included. Yes, you see that on the screen now. And in paragraph three, subparagraph G, the word confiscation was included. for consistency sake, with Article Three, paragraph four now contains a reference to domestic law. And finally, in paragraph eight, the wording of operational training, I should say operational our training activities have been replaced with technical assistance and capacity building. So, those are the changes that have been made after the article 54. And I also note that there are problem questions around stakeholders. I I am assuming just assuming on articles 55, 55 to 56, but I won't be going into that for now. I'm so colleagues many of these provisions are based on language from nearly universally ratified instrument as I said. So, I encourage you to consider proposing alternative language only alternative language only if you otherwise would not be able to accept certain provisions contained in this paragraph in this article. Now, I would like to ask member states, if we may take it that out of committee agrees with the current draft text articles 54 to article 56 as contained can we take it as agreed? Or do you have any comment? Firstly, on Article 54. I wouldn't be going through para by para, because I would like to see the waters if I can use that term, again, waters of the room on this article. But after listening to member states comments and proposals, we may be able to go to an alternative methodology of going para by parasol para by sub para. Just we did in article 53. Okay, I will now we'll open the floor to you. So, so if any delegation has any comments or proposals, you can request the floor.
Yes, United States, you have the floor.
Thank you chair. And we're pleased to see article 54 and its current state. But we do have a few minor adjustments to propose. We believe this is again one of those critical and foundational elements of this convention to ensure that we all can work together to combat cybercrime through increased capacity to do so. First, I'd like to comment on the title to bring this in mind with with UNCAC as one of our other crime conventions. We've mentioned this before, but we believe capacity building is a form of technical assistance. And if you look at UNCAC, as an example, we've titled The chapter is technical assistance, including capacity building. And we'd suggest making that same edit here to the title. So it's clear that we're referring to technical assistance, including capacity building, and the article. I'll start with with paragraph one with a few additional comments if that's okay, sure. So we would make a similar edit in the second line on the screen of peril one. So the widest measure of technical assistance, including capacity building, and then it can continue for others, including capacity building, training and other forms of assistance. We've spoken at length before as well on on relevant experience and specialized knowledge and the importance of that, we'd like to ensure the greatest flexibility as we exchange that experience and specialized knowledge we propose here, including the word of voluntary and so it's, it would be the voluntary and mutually agreed exchange of relevant experience. As language that we've we've discussed previously again, so I'd be the voluntary and mutually agreed exchange of relevant experience and we'd also like to suggest adding here the term best practices and removing specialized knowledge in the fourth line of para one, as seen on the screen, we have currently where it has and where possible, the transfer of technology, we would suggest where possible the transfer of technology on voluntary and mutually agreed terms and then, continuing taking into particular consideration the needs of developing states parties, we would recommend striking interest. And chair, I would just also flag for your attention. This article also contains issues related to the scope of application has been discussed in the informal. And so this paragraph
Thank you United States for your cooperation in terms of time limit. Okay, I will now give the floor to Tunisia. Mr. President,
thank you. Vice Chair. My delegation welcomes the inclusion of technology transfer in paragraph one of the article as well as the awareness of the needs and priorities of the developing states. However, we call for the deletion of the term where possible and on a mutually agreed terms in paragraph one, which condition in a sense the transfer of this technology because we think simply the fact of mentioning according to their capacities, and this paragraph should encompass all forms of technical assistance and capacity building as well as technology transfer. So there's no need to add in addition, where possible right before technology transfer, and on mutually agreed terms, specifically, to apply to technology transfer. Thank you.
Thank you, Tunisia. I have Qatar on my list, followed by Yemen. So Qatar, you have the floor now.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With regards to technical assistance and capacity building for the scram, we support the original paragraph as worded. Thank you.
Thank you, you, man, you have the floor now. She couldn't continue.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the wording of the article is that if we are saying shall consider then this is optional, and not mandatory, and therefore everything is optional, and not mandatory. Therefore, whether we're talking about transfer of technology or any other items, they're all linked to this first word, shall consider. And we have no issues with the text of this article. And we support it as it is in its current form. Thank you.
Thank you, your man. I have European Union on my list, European Union half the flown out.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We would also it's a bit difficult to follow all the amendments this way. But we would support our colleagues from the US delegation of the United States that proposed some amendments. It would also think it would help the tax to to add after in specialized knowledge and come up where appropriate the transfer of technology, voluntary and mutually agreed terms or something along the lines of that, which is a bit similar to what we heard. And then again, it's a bit difficult to follow the the text on the screen. We will have the proposal that was submitted, I think, as well. Thank you.
Thank you European Union. And now I would like to encourage you, those of you especially proposing alternative language to the draft text. I would like to urge you to share your proposal with other member states or delegations to get support from your proposal, because those proposals are yours. And you're responsible for that proposal. As per the methodology of the this session of the HC HC we will not be we will not be showing each of the different proposals coming up from member states on screen for now. Irrespective of this, I think within the time constraints that we have for those member states who are arguing for opposing specific language, you're encouraged to share it with other member states to give out support, and come back to the meeting after that, because that's the easiest way possible, and also the practical, and I think it's the only way possible under time constraints, so, thank you for your cooperation in the downs and I would like to turn go back to the discussion. Now, I have three member states on my list first this is and then Rwanda followed by Colombia. So first Egypt, you have the floor now.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Egypt would like to align itself with the intervention made by the distinguished delegation of Tunisia regarding the deletion of where possible and on mutually agreed terms and retain the remaining of the power as is and are we supposed to consider to reflect on paragraph one only Mr. Chair or shall equity
now you can go on to other paragraphs as well.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, as you eloquently mentioned, the issue of the stakeholders still for us is bracketed. So, we are not in a position to agree as referendum on any sub para that addresses this issue. In paragraph four, we want to move subject to the domestic law to come after and cooperate closely with other state parties and come up subject to to the domestic law. So it will come before relevant stakeholders in the second line. In paragraph six, we would propose to add also after stakeholders as appropriate in paragraph eight, we suggest the changing are encouraged to to shall in paragraph eight, but we are flexible in this Mr Chair, if there is a consensus on are encouraged to we can go along with that. This is for article 56 Mr shear and I think.
Thank you Egypt and I will give the floor to Rwanda now.
Thank you Mr. Chair. One agreed on Article 54 para one as it is but to call to divisional word shall thank you Mr. Chair.
Just to make sure we have your comment clearly. Your proposal is to remove shell from
to delete the word shall
I wanted to ask if this is about a paragraph one. Paragraph one. Thank you. Okay, I will give the floor to colombia .
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since this is the first time we're taking the floor today, we want to thank you for your hard work on bringing us towards consensus on a language that's acceptable. We also want to thank you for your invitation and for the invitation to all those who are proposing language to circulate the language because it's difficult to follow all the different proposed amendments Now having said that, with regard to this article 50 floor and generally speaking for the entire chapter seven, we believe that technical assistance and capacity building and transfer of technology are for the benefit of those who need it. And usually, these are developing states. And the discussion we began this morning, the states that have expressed the their objection to to language softer language in which these activities are voluntary or subjected to the goodwill of the those who are offering are the developing countries
So, bearing that in mind, at least for for Colombia, but it's I think, all all the countries of the global south share this view, if this chapter does not allow for transfer of technology and capacity building and technical assistance that's effective, it will be very difficult for our states then to be in a position to comply with this instrument, we will become parties to an instrument for which we don't have the knowledge expertise or technology to really implement and so, based on that notion, any kind of caveat that would be added to this paragraph I think would be impossible to accept. This is why as it is drafted as a text is drafted is already kind of soft, because for example, it it mentions to the fact that these activities shall be when possible based on terms that are mutually mutually agreed terms which are usually less favorable to developing countries. So already in its current form is kind of a not very soft, relatively soft language, but we can live with it but if in addition to this language, there are going to be additional caveats added such as you know, transfer technologies or capacity blending in technical assistance will be voluntary or will will be subject to the the the the good intentions of etc,
the microphone is switched off.
Evening. Thank you Colombia? Well, first of all, I think while having a listen to a comment about importance of technical assistance and information exchange, I don't think anyone in this room have any doubts about importance of technical assistance and information exchange, especially in the implementation of this future convention. What we are discussing now is the terms and standards of specific formula of technical assistance and information exchange. And what we you know, member states ratifying states who has the capital have the capacity to provide with capacity building assistance and information exchange to other ratifying states. So, I would like to listen to what are the delegations have to say in that question. And also, as regards the request to circulate each and every single proposal coming from member state delegations, on the afraid this is not possible, under the circumstances we are in. Just to confirm, this is the last session of the ASC. And we have the question, if we can make an agreement based on this revised draft texts prepared by the chair. And any proposal to alter the language of the text should be on the responsibilities of the member state or member states that are arguing for the proposal. So, again, I would like to encourage you, those member states who have and who are going to propose any alternative language, please share your proposal to as many member states as possible, so that you get your support, you get the support from those member states, other member states. This is the, in my view, the only practical way possible to make an agreement including your proposal. So, again, I would like to go back to the work because I have a long list of request from member states. The next speaker will be Albania, Albania, you have the floor.
Thank you. Thank you, Chair. And I wish you the best and we really appreciate the methodology and leadership today. We support the proposal of adding on voluntary and then agree on mutually agreed. So we support this wording, and we consider it important. Thank you.
Thank you all banja next speaker is El Salvador, El Salvador we have
. Thank you, Chair. Once again, good morning. We'd like to support what was said by Colombia. For El Salvador on the chapter, the chapter on technical assistance or delegation has repeatedly mentioned the need to introduce new additional safeguards so as not to undermine important provisions for the transfer of technology. Salvador insists that language, as reflected with regard to transfer of technology has been sufficiently developed to be well balanced and El Salvador prefers not to introduce any changes to paragraph one of this of this article, because the terms of mutually agreed terms already reflect the legitimate interests of those who provide technology and those who receive it. And this is also balanced with the considerations and needs of developing states parties. However, we would not accept the addition of new new conditions such as adding voluntary to the obligation of transfer. Thank you.
Thank you, El Salvador. I will give the floor to Norway now.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Regarding Parowan in the previous session, we then supported to include the transfer of technology in this paragraph. However, we have listened to other delegations, and we see that its inclusion is important to many delegations. And in order to reach consensus, we will support this article and it's the inclusion of the transfer of technology, but it is Also important to us that it is done voluntarily and where it is possible for us to do so and on mutually agreed terms. So we will not support the deletion of where possible and mutually agreed terms. Thank you.
Thank you, Norway for your very constructive comment. Well, I'm not taking sides on this question. But I very happy to hear that in no way said that the we need to make a balance, sort of point of equilibrium. Where different perspectives different member states can agree on because as I said, the chapter this chapter is very important for the implementation of this future convention. So distinguished delegates of Colombia said that the without this chapter, we wouldn't be able to implement this convention in the future after it takes effect. So we definitely need to make an agreement on this chapter. Yes, okay. We have our delegations requesting for the floor, the next speaker will be bounded out to Vanuatu.
Thank you, Chair, is a developing state of Vanuatu recognizes the crucial importance of article 54 to its ability to implement the provisions of this convention, Mr. Chair, therefore, one or two supports the current language of the revised sticks of the chairs version of this negotiating document, we believe that the language of paragraph one represents the outcome or the result of numerous discussions, negotiations that have taken place over the last few sessions. And we believe that it is a balanced representation of what the parties had required. We understand that that provides a balanced view about the issues relating to transfer of technology and the sharing of special specialized knowledge. And for the reasons given, were opposed to any change to the language of this paragraph, Mr. Chair, in relation to the end of paragraph one, two, and paragraph three, A, we observe that, again, the words covered by this convention, are present. And they will be subject to the same caveat that we have discussed in the past. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.
Thank you very now, too, and I take your point about the paragraph two paragraphs two and three. Okay. Let's go on to other speakers. We have Iran. Yeah, yeah. So we have Iran on the buy list. So Iran, you have the Florida.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving the floor to me. This article, I mean, article 4055, regarding technical assistance and capacity building, and specifically the issue of transfer of technology is very sick is of a significant importance for the developing countries. Therefore, my delegation is supportive of deletion of the caveats as the terms as mutually terms, mutually terms, agri terms and also as appropriate, and also additional caveat, just propose, as well. And three, we believe that this caveat, make the transfer of technical and technology impossible. Thank you.
Thank you, Ron. And I will give the floor to Brazil.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair for the floor. Brazil would like to express its support the language is As you presented it on its latest version, on a national capacity, we would, of course, have preferred to see this language and technical assistance and capacity, capacity building with fewer caveats that are in the text. But we believe that you, like other delegations mentioned, have managed to find a very good balance within the positions across the room, so we can support it as it stands, with no further additional caveats as we do see that they would, in any way, render the possibility of technical assistance, nearly impossible. So we support the language as it currently stands. And we believe that this is a good compromise between the different positions on this matter, thank you very much.
Thank you, Brazil. Now I give the floor to Israel.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, as this is the first time we take the floor this morning. I would like to first and foremost, congratulate you on your election. And thank you for leading us through this discussion. On this matter, we would like to join the United States proposals and the EU proposals, as was eloquently explained the issue of technical assistance and and technology transfers are extremely important. At the same time, they cannot be coerced. We're talking about a cooperation, this cannot be obliged upon somebody. So any kind of voluntary terms would be very highly recommended. Thank you.
Thank you. It's real. I have other delegations requesting the follow up on the floor, top as Iraq I have the I will give you the floor to run through that.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, my delegation joins the African Union's proposal to eliminate where possible and on mutually agreed terms, because there is some discrepancy in the text. Adding these terms where possible and on mutually agreed terms is contradictory to the phrase taking into particular consideration the interests and needs of developing states parties. If there is truly an intent on the part of developed states to take into particular consideration, ie provide support to developing state parties, then Why be so cautious and add the phrase on mutually agreed terms. Technology will also support not adding this the phrase voluntary Thank you.
Thank you, you rock. I will give the floor to Bolivia
Thank you Chair. First of all. Let me thank the Chair of the special ad hoc committee through you for your excellent leadership of our work. Now, this chapter seven. believe we can support the text presented by the chair and as well explained by the delegation of Columbia has sufficient safeguards. Its transfer of technology is particularly important for developing countries to better take advantage of advanced technology as well as the exchange of experience and specialized knowledge. At the same time, we believe it's important to do ensure capacity building on the ground and not to depend on any kind of conditioning. This is why we believe it's important to take into account the substantial differences between developed and developing countries. This means we need to work together with a an approach of differentiated common but differentiated responsibilities. And so it's for it's very important to strengthen international assistance and cooperation to prevent and combat cybercrime. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Bolivia and Peru. You have the floor now.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would like to support the proposal of Kalam. Bear, we believe that the chairs tax, the latest tax is well balanced. I don't think it should be changed. And I think both Colombia and El Salvador stated the position that is shared by Latin American countries. Trend transfer of technology is very important. And there's no doubt that the possibility of of mutually acceptable agreement would would make it possible to have the appropriate transfer of technologies, which is where we don't believe we should add any any caveats. Thank you.
Thank you, pero. I have a number of delegations requesting for the floor on my list. I have China next, followed by Mauritania, followed by Paraguay, Cabo very de and United States, and Nehru. Now, I would like to give the floor to China now.
Thank you, Vice Chair. Thank you for your effort and coordination. For this chapter, China has a very general but very brief comment. We believe that this chapter is very important. And for developing countries, this is a particularly important chapter. The convention should focus on the international nature of ICT related crimes, and sufficiently consider the interest and the needs of developing countries to strengthen technical assistance, capacity building, as well as the transfer of technologies and around the whole world to strengthen the capability of countries in terms of combating ICT related crimes. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair.
Thank you, China. And I will give the floor to Mr. Tanya
Chronos. Thank you, Mr. Chair, we would like to congratulate you on your presidency and cheering of this session. And we would like to thank you for your efforts to reach a consensus. As for article 54, we support the text presented by the chair as it achieves a certain balance. And we join a number of delegations in their concern regarding adding multiple caveats including the word voluntary as this might stand in the way of technology transfer for the benefit of developing states. Thank you.
Thank you bar Tanya, for your comment. Taking this opportunity I thank you for your kind words for myself. But for the sake of time, I think we can skip over the compliments for me and then get straight into the substantial discussions if you like Okay, I will give you the floor to peg right now.
International cooperation is very important in combating cybercrime. Well, we're always talking about the certain acts that are cross border accept involve more than one country. But indeed, based on the experience we have in this in this area in combating cybercrime, we have to acknowledge that cooperation with major powers can be very effective and I'm speaking of based on our own national experience, we have cooperation both in terms of capacity building and tech technology transfer as a democratic country. We believe that technology you were facilitating the attention of technology by major powers should be voluntary based on democratic non non obligatory principles. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Paraguay on my list. I have Cabo Verde next, followed by United States and our room and after that, South Africa, Pakistan, Chile, and Zimbabwe. I will now give the floor to Cabo Verde.
Thank you. Once bought the borrow one has dropped. With amendments We will present by African group, I think it's not possible to have better cooperation. If we we are in the same stage sometimes can't ask some position some some useless, but the rough countries has no same conditions to respond. So I think it's important that who can have it in a better way that can share it, not just voluntary.
Thank you acaba. De, we have United States State as they do have the floor.
Thank you chair. We are listening to the room. And I think we're honestly in full agreement that this chapter, and its purpose is one of the most important in this convention. We are ardent supporters of many international organizations that are supporting member states in this room, to strengthen their ability to to prevent and combat cybercrime. We do that through the Organization of American States. We do that through the UN Office on Drugs and Crime. We do that through the Council of Europe. This is one of our highest priorities is helping build the capacity of other nations to help us work together to combat cybercrime. I would argue these are not caveats that are here. These are ways to strengthen cooperation between donors and recipient countries to strengthen the technical assistance that we work and strive to provide around the world. This these caveats, as Ben have been described, are ways to enable cooperation, not hinder it. These are things that we need as donors, and I think they also facilitate again, better cooperation in both directions. Again, we are strong, strong supporters of this article, and are seeking support and understanding that, that we believe in that this convention will lead to increased capacity building increased technical assistance, and we will be right there to provide that. But we need your support and providing the flexibility in this article is to ensure that we can do that effectively as my colleagues from Paraguay just stated, thank you.
Thank you, United States. And thank you for your comment about the rationale about for your proposals in for alternative language. I actually have a question for you, United States and other delegations who have supported United States proposal on specific proposal to insert voluntary, before mutually agreed terms. I would like to seek your assistance on this wilding because, firstly, throughout the discussion so far, it seems to me that the majority of delegations have supported that the text the language as drafted, which is on the screen. Yes. As drafted, I should say that you would like to see additional language inserted, which is voluntary. Just before the mutually agreed terms. Does the does your proposal have any legal bearings having legal consequences? Added to that text? Because it seems to me since the terms is on the mutually agreed basis? Wouldn't it include the voluntary element in it? So this is the question I wanted to ask. You might might be able to help me and help us help the room in trying to trying to come to an agreement to find a balanced point on this paragraph. You can make an intervention at a later stage because I have other delegations requesting float for the floor. But for the moment, I would like to give the floor too narrow.
Good afternoon Chair. Thank you. No rule will be the first time speaking We'll be Nauru is given the first time to speak in this flow and we we wish to support one waters position with respect to article 54. We believe that this article is important for developing states we are vulnerable as we do not have, we may not have the technology there the required skills to combat cybercrime. So therefore we offer our support to Vanuatu is proposed. Thank you.
Thank you, Narew and South Africa, you have the floor.
Thank you very much, Mr. Mr. Vice Chair. So South Africa considers this chapter to be critical in promoting the effective implementation of this convention, especially for developing countries. We don't think the inclusion of additional caveats and chair we do think that they are caveats would be helpful. We've noted appropriate voluntary, a mutually agreed terms in a chapter that we all agree is very important. In fact, it goes against the very essence of facilitating and enabling cooperation, there is a responsibility on on the committee itself, and the countries that are here to assist other countries, especially developing countries fulfill their obligations. So there is no need to make it so onerous. If the objective is to work together. Technical Assistance should be full and forthcoming. And just to clarify chairs, so we support the proposal made by the African group yesterday, as well, thank you.
Thank you, South Africa, and then Pakistan, you have the floor now.
The chair regarding this article, my delegation is satisfied with the inclusion of transfer of technology. In this paragraph, we would like to support the original text, as proposed by the chair. We believe that the original wording comprehensively covers any caveats required for the purposes of this article. Thank you.
Thank you, Pakistan. And I have chili on my list. Shall you have the floor?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My delegation would like to express our support for what was stated by the delegation of Colombia and the delegation of Brazil, Peru, Bolivia. Also what was mentioned by the delegation of South Africa. This chapter on technical assistance and infirm, information exchange is extremely important to be able to successfully fulfill the aims that we have set for ourselves in this convention to put additional conditions on what I to add conditions to what paragraph one of article 54 already includes will only complicate these efforts in the future. The original text that is proposed is satisfactory to us and indeed reflects the spirit we are trying to achieve together. That's what I wanted to say thank you.
Thank you, Chile. Soon, Zimbabwe, you have the floor.
Thank you, Chair. And good morning, everyone. Zimbabwe, we just want to reiterate the position of the African group, which was a blee, delivered by the distinguished delegation from Egypt. Zimbabwe, we are opposed to additional caveats to aspects of international cooperation, technical assistance and information exchange. And we believe that if we are to effectively fight the use of ICTs, for criminal purposes, we have no choice but to cooperate. We all agree that these crimes transcend our borders and technical cooperation is actually key to the successful implementation of this convention. Without this key provision, chair, article 54, and without the caveats that are being proposed now, we will be able to move forward but if we continue putting those caveats we believe that we'll continue to have the scourge of ICT related crimes, and we certainly have to find a balance in this meeting. Thank you.
Thank you Zimbabwe. I have Switzerland. So Switzerland you have the floor.
Thank you Chair. Thank you chair. Switzerland supports the EU and other countries such as the US Albania and Norway in their statement on Article 54, paragraph one, that the transfer of technologies should take place on a voluntary basis. Therefore, we support the addition of on voluntary and mutually agreed terms, understand the technical assistance and capacity building are a serious concern for developing countries and thorough consideration should be given to their needs. For us, however, any mechanism that could lead to states being obliged to transfer technology would go too far. Thank you.
Thank you, Switzerland, Sudan, you have the floor.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be concise. And I will not commend you on your able stewardship. Perhaps I can commend you after the end of the session. We are aware that today's meeting aims to bring our views closer in order to reach an agreed upon a text on a technical assistance. This was thoroughly discussed in previous sessions and developing countries have expressed their desire to keep this article because this article allows the developing countries to cooperate to ensure the implementation of this convention in the in the future. Mr. J. Mr. Chair mutually agreed terms weakens the text. Because we cannot know who has the upper hand in determining these terms. And do these terms on the these? Are these terms only limited to specific items? Will they affect sovereignty? And what happens if the mutually agreed terms are not agreed upon? Does that mean that states will not have access to assistance, this is not cleared and the current text and wording these terms that make developing countries at a disadvantage, as opposed to donors, this text does not respect the principles of equality. My country does not support the expression on mutually agreed terms and where possible these expressions, we can the article will support the petition of the African Union and many developing states at parties that expressed their reservations. We believe that this article is essential to ensure the future implementation of this convention. Thank you.
But can I faster? Sorry, thank you, Sudan. I have Burkina Faso next.
Thank you, Vice Chair. My delegation also supports the position expressed here by the African group. And we welcome that technical assistance and capacity building has been included. We also think that the inclusion of a new proposal will would provide these sense we think is necessary for cooperation. So it's important for the implementation of the Convention being discussed. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I have now exhausted by a list of speakers who want to take the floor. Oh, I see United States on my list the United States you have the
Thank you chair. These are complex issues. I recognize. And I just want to repeat that we are in strong agreement with with nations that are expressing and noting the importance of this article in this convention, we fully agree. And we fully agree that in order for all of us to implement this convention, we must expand and increase our technical assistance, including training and capacity building around the world. On this question of technology transfer, as noted by Norway and others, this is a complex issue in that it relates to an international intellectual property standards and patent law. It's complex, and there's a legal reason why we are placing this this qualifier here to ensure that we don't violate international standards on patent law, for example, in the transfer of a computer, we fully support the transfer of technology but it needs to be done. So in which the parties not only agree contractually on the agreed terms mutually, but it's also done in a voluntary way in which the party is moving that technology to the recipient country in a voluntary fashion against It's a legal issue related to intellectual property. And I don't want to we're not we're not a body here to discuss international patent law. But I would like to caveat that that is why this is here. It's to ensure that we can do this. And I repeat, these terms here are not meant to hinder. But they're meant to facilitate the transfer of technology. Thank you.
Thank you, United States. I think it was helpful. I see Columbia, Melissa, Columbia, you have the floor.
. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, just very briefly, to respond to the many of the United States and some other countries who have tried to explain why, for them, it's necessary to introduce a term voluntary and referred to the issue of intellectual property rights. This is a discussion we had very extensively very similarly, during the negotiations of the BB and J instrument, that we know that has a scope of application that is different, but the the the discussion was very similar. And we we managed to resolve it without the introduction of the term voluntary, because we also understand that to, to to achieve mutually agreed terms. This implies voluntary anyway. And so we can live with the inclusion mutually agreed terms, with the understanding that this includes the concept of voluntary, voluntary. Even though we had this discussion, we didn't include the term voluntary in that discussion yet we managed to to reach an agreement, and we don't really understand why it's different here. Thank you.
Thank you, Colombia, for your question. I should say, comment. Well, before I go to the next speaker, I would like to recall, to draw your attention to the question that I asked for United States and the United States delegation tried to answer to the question a couple of minutes ago. And I now come to think but I am coming to think about the same question goes to the other delegations as well, because this is the flip side of the coin, as the distinguished delegate of Colombia mentioned, if the voluntary factor is already implied in mutually agreed terms, could we possibly agree all the insertion or deletion of voluntary factor? Either way, if it is included in one way or another? Perhaps we can agree on so I'm coming to think that we're very much closer, closer to the beginning, before the beginning of this session closer to you know, compromise text. Before I go on, I have a couple of delegations requesting for the floor, I will give the floor to Cote d'Ivoire.
Thank you chair. The delegation of Cote d'Ivoire believes that article 54 is one of the major articles of this draft convention. And this provision was obtained following numerous discussions. It reflects the desire of the states parties. As regards their desire to significantly step up cooperation in order to combat cyber crime, especially for developing states. We therefore, support the African groups amendment aiming to delete the addition of volunteer as well as any other addition in the same vein. Above all, we want to aim at the objectives envisaged by this convention.
Thank you, and I will give the floor to human chakra
thank you again, Mr. Chair. I apologize for taking the floor again on this issue. In response to your question about voluntary I believe here we are talking about three expressions. So I'm giving now a legal definition. As I've already mentioned, the verb consider includes a voluntary aspect. So, states or parties that are considered and this entails a voluntary aspect, second, on the mutually agreed terms. And, and this also entails a voluntary aspect, this also applies to where possible. So, technology transferred is ascension, and and that text we have three different terms. And there's also a logical, rational intellectual property when we are talking about interest among states. And when our interest is to combat cyber crimes, we know that developed states have these technologies. But we also know that crimes are perpetrated by the developed or in developing countries and sometimes the crimes are perpetrated in developing countries targeting developed countries. This requires international cooperation between the developed and developing countries, both countries that should cooperate internationally, international cooperation is a requirement and essential to combat crime. And that stands for of a technology as a precondition of this international cooperation. Without technology. Developing countries will not be able to investigate crimes that target developed countries. And without this cooperation and transfer of technology, we will not achieve our objectives. Thank you.
Thank you for your comment your name. Since I have exhausted my list of speakers, what I would like to propose now is since we're reaching the end of this session, in the morning session, and since I have seen discussions still going on, and we haven't come to an agreement on this paragraph, although in my understanding, majority of member states are in support of the current draft text, whereas some member states are arguing for insertion of additional language involves some legal consequences as well. And I recollect, as a distinguished delegate of Colombia mentioned that the negotiation of BB N J. For those who are not aware of this negotiation, this is the area of Law of the Sea Convention, the BB n j stands for the biodiversity beyond national jurisdiction. And I was part of that negotiation as a member of the Japanese delegation 10 years ago, in this room. And we had a discussion, a huge discussion about technical transfer transfer technology in the BB and Ingenico. Station. But when the session was over, I went out from the UN building at four o'clock in the morning, exactly 10 years ago. And I flew back to my capitol, and then I had a bad flu suffering from that about 10 days since then. And honestly, I would have liked to repeat that, and I don't think anybody would do that would want to do that. So, I understand that this question involves a huge question. And because of the importance because of the importance of technical assistance and capacity building, and because of the importance of technology transfer, it entails discussion, I would like to exhaust that discussion, so as to strike a balance, balance the point on the text. But on the other hand, I have seen I haven't seen any comment for most of the parts of this article.
So I would like to leave the discussion open for the first paragraph of Article 54 While going on to other paragraphs remaining following paragraphs under Article 55 You're 54 I should say and To see if we can agree out the referendum on those paragraphs. I see no objection from the floor. So I would like to switch my methodology to that paragraph by paragraph sub powered by sub para now, using the remaining time of the morning session. First, paragraph two, it seems to me that there is a question on the Application Scope. It involves in this paragraph because it has a language, the offenses covered by this convention. So perhaps we might want to leave this paragraph for a discussion at a later stage, rather than to agree on the referendum now. And on this paragraph three, we have a short poll for paragraph three. But we I hadn't heard any comments on this language. So perhaps, hopefully, we can agree on the Shippo of paragraph three for now. Or the referendum? Of course. Okay, let's do it. Let's do the Shippo. paragraph three, agreed on the referendum. Okay. Okay, great. So let's move on to sub powers. Sub para a under paragraph three. I think it also contains the same question on the scope of application evolved. So let's leave it out in paragraph sub para V. We've already agreed on on it. Other referendum. Moving moving on to soft power see. Does any delegation have any comments or proposal? Or could we take it as agreed on the referendum? I will take some time to see if anybody has any comment on it. I see none. So let's call let's say SAP RC is agreed on the referendum. Okay, great. Sub para de to Sal Perez de to f we have already agreed on. And sal para. She I think involves the same old question on the scope of applications or let's leave it open. Cell power age. Could we agree on SubTerra? Age are the referendum? Okay, I see none, which is good. So let's say power soft power age is agreed. Now. Okay. Great. So the last sub part of paragraph three sub there are i i see no delegation requesting for the floor. Right now section. Let's, let's have a look. Agreed. Great. Okay, great. We have come to paragraph four. And we had a proposal from Egypt. So we move a certain language and insert it to a different place where we'll come back to later on. So let's keep it open. Paragraph five. I haven't heard any proposal or comment in the session. So perhaps we can agree on paragraph five out of the referendum Oh, I see United States on the list United States you have the floor not.
Thank you chair just again looking at this entire article as a whole. These paragraphs use the term shall consider to ensure that they're not obligatory. This paragraph actually is an exception to the standard of this article. We would propose an edit to say shall consider assisting And one another. And so at the start of parrot five, shall consider assisting one another. And then also, you'll see the line three of para five, it says, And to that end, shall also consider when appropriate. So just to bring this in line with the other parents of this article, just for reference, we'll make the same proposal as well. And paragraph seven, where it's another anomaly in which it's listed as a obligatory and it should be a shock, consider, as well, from our view. Thank you.
Thank you, United States, I will give other member states other delegations to consider the proposal from the United States. So I will leave paragraph five and paragraph seven for discussions at later stage. So paragraph six. I haven't heard any comment, but we have the question on the offenses covered by this convention. So perhaps we should leave it open for the moment.
And moving on to paragraph eight. Paragraph eight contains the wording technical assistance and capacity building. But in this session, I haven't heard any comment on this. In that case, perhaps we can agree on paragraph eight are the referendum. US US United States you have.
Thank you, Chairman, I apologize for taking the floor multiple times. We've made this point several times before, but we believe that capacity building is a component of technical assistance. And therefore I strongly urge the room consider technical assistance, including capacity building, in per eight. Thank you.
Thank you United States that exactly what I was wondering about. So thank you for your help. And I also recollect that Egypt, delegation of Egypt proposed to replace their wording are encouraged to shell. But also, they said they are flexible on bail change. If the rooms they agree on the current draft. But anyway, let's leave this paragraph open for discussion, especially for the proposal made by United States. Okay, let's move on to the two remaining paragraphs. Paragraph nine. I haven't heard any comment, proposals, anything at all, in this morning session. So in that case, we can agree on paragraph nine as drafted. Great, I see no request for proposal. So let's go the paragraph nine is agreed. Now the referendum. Now we have come to the last paragraph of Article 54. And I have United States on my list the United States you have long.
I think a chair we do not want to stall progress and your efforts today to to close more paragraphs. We fully support and commend the work of the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. But we would note that there are other relevant international organizations that are also conducting the same work. And we believe as part of this convention, we should encourage voluntary contributions to the other international organizations that also serve these efforts to implement this convention through technical assistance and capacity building, we would propose and edit to say to make making voluntary contributions to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime and other relevant international organizations, and then continue from there for the purpose of fostering. And so just to clarify that there are we again, we commend the work of UN ODC but also I would like to acknowledge in this paragraph the work of others as well. Thank you
Thank you United States for your comment and proposal. It seems to me that the proposal made by the United States doesn't look like a controversial one. Or perhaps we would like to take a moment or two, or for some time to consider. Well, let's, let's leave this paragraph open for a consideration for your consideration. But I have a high hope that the the wording of paragraph 10, including the proposal made by the United States have no comment against it. Okay, so great. Now we have reached the end of the morning session. But before we just miss, I have an announcement from the secretariat. I see Israel on my list. So I will give the floor to Israel.
Thank you, chair before we conclude this morning session, I was listening to you very carefully. And I wanted to ask, maybe procedural or methodological methodological question. You've mentioned before, you have been counting delegations or member states that have been opposing or supporting you gave remarks that you've seen that there is a large number or sought a smaller number. Since we're not engaged right now in the election, or voting process? I was wondering, how is it relevant for our discussion? Thank you.
Israel, thank you very much for your question and clarification? Well, I mentioned the majority of I was saying that, on the judgment of the room, the voices of the room, I am not pressing any decision, or any prejudgment, or prejudice, of course. But I am, what I was just would like to say to do is to try to help the room try to help the committee to reach an agreement on this very important chapter. And, of course, well, seemingly minor, comparatively minor number of member states, of course, you do have your right to say, it is not an election that Elijah mentioned, it's not a voting, of course, it's a discussion to realize to create agreeable text for the convention. So, you can come back to and make an intervention at any time, I will give the floor to you, when you feel the necessity to do that, within a limited time schedule, of course. And I will note your comment on the methodology a of mine. And I will try to improve that because I have to confess that this is my first occasion to lead the negotiation as vice chair or chair and under you and assistant I have to confess that so I am all yours to your advice and assistance. So as to better convene the proceeding of the morning of the session, of course. Well, thank you Israel for that excellencies before we conclude the morning session, we have a announcement to make for you. So, as you will have noticed an indicative schedule of the methodology, which is avail available on the website of the concluding session. The meetings from Tuesday afternoon onwards are left without the specification of the chapters that would be discussed. I would like to specify now how we will continue this afternoon. I will continue with the chapter the six to nine. Which sounds like a very good news to me, maybe for you. In the evening. My colleague, vice chair from Australia will help inform us on chapters four and five. So we do, we continue the rest of our chapters this afternoon. And then as the evening, we will have a different different ensembles on chapters four and five. Tomorrow Thursday, during the morning session, my colleague, the vice chair from Nigeria, will continue to discuss chapters 123, which is remainders from yesterday. Tomorrow afternoon, my colleague, my vice chair of Australia, will come back to continue with a discussion on chapters four and five. And then tomorrow night, I myself will hold the meeting in an informal setting on chapters six to nine. So the discussions will continue this afternoon, and then tomorrow night on these four chapters that we have on the table. Finally, on Friday, during our morning meeting, chapters 123 will be discussed. So this is a plenary session. Yes. Okay. The secretariat will also post this shedule also on the website of that committee, so I would strongly recommend you to to consult that as well. Is it already on the website or? Okay, not yet, but it will be soon. On Friday in the afternoon meeting, the Chair will guide the discussions for the how we can proceed with the deliberations onwards. I hope it is clear. But if you have any questions or comments, perhaps you can come to us come to the Secretariat and ask questions or otherwise, we can conclude the session. Oh, there's another one. Oh, yes, there's another announcement to make from the secretariat.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Secretariat would like to inform governmental delegations that the open ended informal meeting on articles three 517 24 and 35. will continue this afternoon at 3pm in conference room 11 and online. The link to join the meeting has already been circulated by the Secretariat to all registered governmental delegates. Furthermore, the open ended informal meeting on the use of terms will continue tomorrow morning at 10am in the same conference room. As announced previously, given the limited size of the room, that is conference room 11. delegations are encouraged to limit the size of their delegations in such informal consultations to not more than one or two delegates and make use of the hybrid format, especially if the room is full. And finally, delegations are invited to monitor the website of the concluding session for information on the schedule of open ended informal meetings, as well as the meetings that are happening just announced by the chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Secretariat. So we conclude the morning session and the way we all meet each other in the afternoon in this room at three o'clock. Thank you
