client is going to, no client is going to well, very, very, here's the thing, clients typically, we can't expect them to always take the long term view of value in a project. In other words, that's why they hire the architect because they may approach the project with some, some mindsets about how they think things work, what you're the professional. And so this is where so one of the principles here is that you as an architect, should adopt the mindset of a consultant, not just an architect. So you know, even engineers, the comp Consulting Engineers, you know, you could be consulting architect, what that means is that you're not just an order taker, you actually put input into the design solution. So for example, I was talking with a residential architect this past week. And he was saying that he's frustrated doing the kind of products he's doing, because oftentimes people come to Him, they want to set up plans, they kind of already know what they want, quote, unquote, they bring to the floorplan, they say we want something like this, or maybe they've done some sketches. Can you modify like this, and so he does them. But then he feels resentful, because he's like, oh, man, I could do this better if I just did it from scratch and took into account the customized, you know, the, the customizations that I could do with the space based upon the client based upon how they live, etc, right. But instead of actually, powerfully leading his clients, he just kind of does does it their way. Right. So there's this fine balance. And then we have on the far other side, we have architects who are known as, you know, these egotistical bastards, that everyone resents because they show up and it has to be their way. And it's just this way, just because it's my way, and it costs a lot of money. And I'm gonna go with cut down everyone on the job site. So there's this happy medium, between these two, right, being an order taker. And then over here being this, you know, having your ego on supercharge, there's this middle path of being able to, you know, understand and look at what the client wants, and then being able to lead and guide them as a consultant would and help them understand like, hey, that's actually there's actually a better solution here. And may may explain to you why, let's look at it this way. Oh, and so this is part of the conversation process of, and this is where at the beginning of the episode, I talked about the word convinced, what we're not doing here is we're not trying to convince the client that this is the right way, we prefer the word enroll, which means that we're presenting a possibility of an idea we're kind of showing them, there's greener pastures over here doesn't look really nice over here, come with me. It's sort of that that kind of advisor, that mentor mentality, it's like, well, I like your idea. That's a good idea. I'm glad you spent some time on that. There's a couple of things. So you might want to consider come over here and take a look at this right. And so if you're when we approach it with the attitude of a consultant, this is where a lot of the added value comes. Because let's face it, actually, most clients when they go to the architect, that's what they want the architect do. They don't want the architect just to say yes to everything, like any anyone that are hired to come to my house to fix something or to do my yard. I don't I don't just want to be, Hey, do it this way. You know, I may have ideas about the end result that I want, but I want them to tell me the best way to do it. I want them to tell me, oh, you know what? If you want your yard to look like that, then it's better that we cut these off right here right now. It'll look bad for a season, but next year, they're going to look fantastic. Wow, I'm glad you told me that let's do it that way. It's different than what I was thinking. But I trust you the you're the expert, and you're the professional. So as Ryan said, it's our responsibility. It's our role to be able to take the mindset of what our clients are actually thinking about their project or their assumptions. In the case of the the the example we gave earlier, where this client was saying, Yeah, I'm gonna bring in this residential contract to do commercial work. Like this is what As an architect, you need to be able to make give, make a stand, to take a stand, and then be powerful in your communication, to help clients understand what's in their best interest without feeling, being egotistical or just being that architect who's always exploding. And this is why Ryan says that it's a sales process. Right. It's a process of persuasion. It's a process of education. It's a process of enrollment. And one of the things that you'll need to educate your clients on. See, as Ryan said, clients, you know, generally unless they're experienced in in orchid AEC, typically, even experienced professionals don't really understand the idea about when I say like other professionals, maybe construction workers, contractors, things like that. Definitely a lot of owners don't really understand that architectural drawings can only get so detailed, the more detail we add, the more it costs to produce the drawings, right, because the more coordination there is, the more time your staff has spent doing them. And so there's amount of diminishing returns. So as architects, professionals, we know that that that contract document showed the design intent, if you went to a court of law, they would just say, hey, does this match up with the design intent. So there's this and this is where it gets subjective. This is where it gets, as Ryan said, there's an element of looseness that's intentional, because if we tried to make everything exact, like a NASA spaceship, then the cost would skyrocket even more than it already does. So clients need to understand that this this idea behind design documents is that there's actually this, this wiggle room that's left in the design documents is actually a good thing. It's saving the money so that architects don't have to detail everything to the nth degree, and make the contract documents really expensive. And then also make you know, really limit the contractors hands on what they can use, what's this fine balance, and use the professional know the best way to walk that fine balance, but your client doesn't. So this is another example of a point where you need to help educate your clients and help them understand like when they come back during see and they say, Well, how can you? How come your drawing shows this mistake? And you're like, well, it's not really a mistake. What it is, is it's the design intent is here. And the reason why but now see, if it's already a problem in the contract administration, you're on your back foot, now you're explaining why it was done a certain way, instead of being proactive in the conversation, prepping them ahead of time educating them a let me tell you exactly how contract documents work, right. First of all, these are legal documents or set of instructions, there's something called design intent. And not everything is drilled out detailed out to the enth degree. For instance, electrical drawings are highly schematic, right, we know we connect the switches to the lights, but electrician, they don't wire it like that, right? They go and they figured out the best way to wire it. If they're if this is a more complex and sophisticated project, they'll do shop drawings will they'll show where the conduits gonna be run, etc. If it's a smaller project, where they're not going to do that the subcontractors out there figuring that out themselves, right. So obviously, if the architect took the time to specify where all the wire runs are going to go where all the conduits are going to go, that would take a lot of time. And it might be wrong by the time it got to the job site. Ryan's having already like flashbacks, like, can you imagine we're already losing of architects as it is, can you imagine like how many interns we'd need to like to like actually do all the shop level drawings for architects. So clients need to understand this. And to bring this point to a closed, you know, it's our job. As architects, it's our opportunity as architects to enroll clients in this conversation. So that's why it's important that you have a system in your practice for enrolling clients in not only the way that you do your drawings, but also the problems and challenges they're going to have along the way, prep them, prepare them, these are some of the typical challenges that will happen. And then also enroll them and have an educational, you know, part of your system that teaches them, for instance, in about contract administration, it's gonna say, so this is