Ken Meyer Welcome to the show. Thanks for making today happen.
Oh, thank you very much for the invite greatly appreciate it.
We're gonna have some fun today. I really like your background, I really like the passion for what you've done. And I'm interested to invite your interactions invite you, but share you and your story and what you do with those that are following who's who in HR. So if you wouldn't mind, give a quick synopsis of what you're doing, and who you are.
Sure. I am the Chief Human Resources officer for a federally qualified health center, based in New York City. So what we do is we provide primary care, behavioral health and care coordination to the underserved communities of Brooklyn, proximate and Queens. And we employ over 600 people engaged in that very noble cause. And between all of our programs, and by seeing patients, we touched the lives of about 85,000 people annually.
Wow, that's powerful. I love your commitment to this field, you're 30 years in healthcare correct?
Actually, I'm 30 years in HR, but I'm actually 42 years in health care, I got my first job in healthcare the same way a whole lot of people get their first jobs in health care, that's through their mother or father or some other family member working in a health care setting. And saying, hey, when I'm 16 years old, saying, Hey, listen, they have jobs open at the hospital, or whatever you should apply. And they put your name in, you go into applying to get in New York City. I don't know if this is across the country. But I know in New York City, health care is pretty much a family employer, which on the negative side, it's when a health care strike happens. It's doubley and tripley, devastating close a lot of times, well, nota majority, but a significant amount of times when that happens, and tire families are put out of work.
That's like the police also and fire.
Yes.
And I know that about health care. It's interesting. You know, something else that you mentioned, that I think is really important, too, is the power of your passion, how you described it as a noble profession.
Well, it's funny, I was talking to a group of nurse practitioners for still in school and nurses that were in school, and looking to become nurse practitioners once and I said, You know what, when you're looking at your first employment experience, when you get out of school, you're going to meet with a lot of people, and they're going to tell you, what can work for me, and you're going to change the world. I got these four year, those people alive, you can go and change the world. But I'll tell you, you can work for us. And you'll be able to help that immigrant family who has a husband and wife and children and have that Father be able to come to us for health care. So they can go out and earn money to help their families, you'll be able to do that. You'll be seeing children who because of the work you're doing and controlling the asthma and things like that, that little kid now that kid can play Little League, that kid can play basketball, that kid can play soccer, that kick participate in gym, all those things. So are you going to save the world? No. But are you going to be able to positively impact their worlds on a daily basis? The answer is absolutely, yes, you will. That's what I tell people. And that's what we do.
That's awesome. That's about having a purpose. That gives you something to get up every day because you know that you're making an impact. And then there have been studies after studies that show people that have a purpose are higher performers, they stick around longer, they bring a happier energy to the workforce, which obviously through osmosis trickles down throughout an organization. So it's really cool to hear your passion.
Thank you.
So I'd love to let the audience get to know you a little bit. I've got a section I call it rapid fire, right kind of throw out some quick questions for you and give an opportunity to kind of share get it learned a little bit more about you. You ready to rock?
I'm ready to rock.
All right, let's do it. Where is your happy place Ken?
my Happy Places when I'm walking out a big believer on getting the 10,000 steps in? And I'm a big believer in walking. When I'm on my walks. That's when I'm happiness. Great.
Tell me something that most people don't know about you.
Okay, so when I was a lot younger, I used to sneak into cbgbs when I was underage, so I watch my favorite punk rock bands like the Ramones and we're talking heads,
you got to see them?
Yes.
I used to go to cbgbs. Also, how sad was it when they shut it down?
Yeah, I know. Although I have to tell you that when you go past there, I don't know if you've been passing since they shut it down. JOHN Varvatos has is like an old his downtown boutique there and it has like this very good vibe to it. So I think it sort of captures a little bit of what cbgbs used to be if you walk inside.
I mean, it should that places like a historical society and from my perspective, I've probably been there 100 times conservatively.
I used to like the place next door to a cold great gildersleeve she used to see be able to see decent bands in there.
went there. Interesting. So jets, your giant chess, my projects. We're not ever gonna go any further. That's all we got to say. What are your thoughts on SHRM or some of the other HR associations that are out there?
Well, currently, I'm actually on the board of New York City SHRM. Okay, and that's SHRMs largest, local chapter. And we're also the oldest our chapter number is actually 0001. Were the first chapter. And one of the things I am very fond of saying is that I am not where I am today. Without being a member of New York City, SHRM and sharp I think they offer incredible educational opportunities way to advance professional development. And I would encourage any HR professional to number one become a member of Sherm. But second, and probably even more importantly, get involved in your local chapter, it is incredibly important to not only your individual professional development, but also to the professional development of others.
That's the key right there. You nailed it, and what are things that people can be doing to get involved,
the first thing you should do is find out who runs your local chapter, not just send them an email, a lot of them have websites, go on their website, see what they offer, some are small, some are large, and they're always looking for volunteers for something, whether it's for membership, or professional development, or communications, things like that. So it's just there are so many opportunities. And that's a great way to network with other HR professionals. And it's incredibly important for those folks that are just starting out in HR,
completely agree. So what prompted you to get on the board,
I've always been active in the association, and then I became the chair of a special interest group, it's called the manager's forum, which is funny because I don't think there's an individual who's part of the special interest group, who is actually an HR manager, we've all essentially rose to we're all at higher levels than just an HR manager. But a lot of us started out as HR managers joined the special interest group and through the learning opportunities, we were able to build our own resumes and progress and move up.
That's great to hear. So let's transition more into the work that you're doing right now. I would love to learn about the community that you serve, and what it means to be an HR leader in healthcare or just the nonprofit space where you're serving, you know, such a diverse community.
Yeah, I mean, first of all, two people come and work at ch n, they are literally the strength of the organization, because it's the type of organization where you know, where you're really there to serve others. That's what your job is, your job is to serve others. And we do a lot of recruitment. And we do a lot of hiring from within the communities we actually serve, which is a strength. But it's also a challenge. Like say, for example, one of the biggest effects that our organization has, is that in cases of inclement weather, or in cases of like, now we have a healthcare emergency with COVID, when they shut down the schools, that dramatically impacts my staff, because they're not only working for ch n, but they're also becoming a part time teacher and all of these things. It's incredible. And that's and that is because we recruit from the communities that we serve. And I think a lot of our folks praying that kind of, it's a way for them to serve the community that they live in. So it gives them some intrinsic satisfaction. In addition to that, they know the communities that they serve, so if something isn't work, and they're able to say, Hey, listen, this doesn't work for my folks. And here's why
is it similar to like community policing, in a sense, again, by the importance of knowing your community and those that you serve?
I would say yes. Because like, say somebody like me, I may think I know the community. But there are times when I don't have a clue. And I really depend on the folks that, you know, work with me to say, hey, and and I, one of my things is when I say, Hey, listen, if I'm doing something wrong, you need to hold up your hand and speak up. Because I mean, you need to teach me, because last thing you want me to do is to be wallowing in my own anger. And then all of a sudden, the poop hits the fan. And then you're coming up to me and says, You know, I meant to tell you about that. But and I'm like, that's the last thing I want. And you know, what, a buddy of mine made the Navy a career. And he went to like, officers, Candidate School and things like that. And he used to talk about getting your sea bars, and we would talk about it as and then you get respect. Because when you're instructing and you're doing this, you've been out to sea. So that weeds the people you're instructing, they have a lot more respect for you, because, hey, listen, you've actually been out to see sort of same thing where, like, okay, even though why I live in a very nice section of the Bronx. But no, I did go to school in the South Bronx, 116 1/64 Street in Walton Avenue, three blocks away from Yankee Stadium, and played basketball, when I was a lot younger, all across the city. And I grew up in Washington Heights, and the Washington Heights section of Manhattan, three blocks away from George Washington High School, and came from two working parents and my, my dad worked a lot of overtime to try and get us those little extra things and things like that. So even though I come from that background, I still have not experienced what many of my employees have experienced, when it comes to growing up. And things like dealing with the police and things like that, I have not experienced that. And I'm lucky that I have it. And that's where my employees need to teach me what that I shouldn't say they need to I need to learn so much more about that,
like that perspective. how do you take care of people that are taking care of other people less, especially during a pandemic, I mean, I mean, again, that's just got to be so much to shoulder for a lead in HR.
Yes, a lot. Like how I take care of it was first is really is through coaching my managers, I understand that, what you what you need, what I tell my manager is that Listen, I understand stuff got to get done, don't get me wrong. I mean, that's why we're here, we're here to work. That being said, though, before, you're ready to like, have that sit down with the employee, because something may go wrong, right, or something like that. Now what, take a deep breath, take it easy, we're in an environment that nobody has ever been in before. Take a deep breath, take a look at what other struggles this person is having. And instead of dropping discipline on the person, let's try and coach the person to performing, find out what is going on. And you know what the 10 of the people who report to you might have the same stuff going on. But you know what, they may be a little stronger than this person. So therefore, they may need some additional help. The bottom line is that you need to have to get to a level that they're productive, and they're feeling productive. And they're not doing that at the cost of their own health, their family's health. So that's one way I do it. And the second way is, is dealing directly with employees and employee issues and, and making sure you're administering your practices, right and things like that. Because during a time like this, are some people going to take advantage? I would like to think No, but I'm also not that naive. Maybe there will be but you know what? Just realize that yes, that is going to happen. You can't look at all your other people through the one or two people who may be taken advantage. That's the worst mistake you can make. That's one of the biggest mistakes you can always make.
Yeah, that's a good I like that perspective. And definitely I like your approach with empathy, which obviously has worked. Oh, I've got to think of other challenges that you're facing has got to be just funding. Can you explain how funding for your organization works like how much of it is State and mature state government like like how much of that is coming from that source?
Sure. So our annual budget is about $100 million. And all that seems like a lot of money. But when you're providing care to 85,000 people, and you're paying over 600 employees to do that, and you have 20 different facilities across four boroughs, all of a sudden that 100 million gets spent pretty quick. So essentially, our funding is, we get grants from the federal government, we do get some state grants for particular programs, and then its revenues from operations. So approximately, with the federally qualified health center, and this is everyone, your Medicaid population is going to be approximately, somewhere between 60 and 65% of your patients, about another 25% of your patients are going to be undocumented on insured folks. And then the remainder are going to be people who are on Medicare, or other commercial insurance. That's how we get the revenue from those operations. Now, for the folks that are undocumented, are insured, and they're self pay. They do pay us what they can when they can. But I'm incredibly proud to say we never turn anybody away because of an ability to pay,
and how does the funding affect the rules of your organization?
Well, there are some things we can do. And there are some things we can't do because of funding, for example, like one of the things that we're able to do is, we are able to provide very good benefits to folks.
relatively small cost out of pocket that benefits to your employees. Yes.
Okay. Yeah, talk to our employees. So that's one way we're able to that it affects our salaries, the highest? The answer is No, they're not. But with the type of organization that we are, like, we can offer things, like better quality alive, like to go to work in a hospital, are you going to make more money? Yeah, you're going to make more money. But you may have to work every other weekend, you may have to rotate evenings or nights, you may have to work overtime. So from a quality alive standpoint, we have a lot to offer someone, do you ever have to
compete for resources, though, with other departments? or How are you you're paying for things yourself?
There are times that I'll pay for things myself, there are times when that's a very good question. Thanks for asking that. I mean, when I can, like if there's an educational program that has a fee to it, I'll just pay that I don't put in for that. That's, and that's just me, personally, I
sit and I think a number of my colleagues do the same thing. So you're not making as much money as you could elsewhere. And you're still doing these kinds of things. Oh, yeah, that's getting back to the nobleness. And just believing in the cause. And that's powerful. There are a lot of people that make a lot of money that I've worked with in past companies, and they're like, submit, that could be like a toll $3 toll or something, and they're gonna, you know, submit that expense. So it's so nice and refreshing to hear, you know, what you're doing and the sacrifices you're making. I'm sorry, to cut you off.
You know, it's funny, my son works at my son works in finance. And we have a lot of conversations around performance and things like that. And he's, and he says to me, that I can never understand why you never went to work in finance, you wouldn't be great in my environment and things like that. I said, Yeah, you're right. And but you know, what, I don't think I'd be happy. That's what I said. And it's not like the folks and that work in finance. Don't work in the public good. Because I think they do. They just do something different. For example, how they how to focus on finance, they work to invest money and things like that, well, a lot of times that the money that their investment, is somebodies goes all the way back to somebodies 401k plan or a pension plan. And so then this way, when they do get older, and they do retire, they have enough money that saved up for themselves to live a comfortable retirement to provide for those needs that they that may have to come up, they enable beat people to buy homes to have a better living situation. And all those things that like in the finance world. I mean, when it boils down to it, I mean,
a lot of it that's in the public good too. I love that perspective. I've had that same argument or I've heard or discussion I should say that you want them to make money because if they're making money, there's going to be taxes that are paid and those taxes are going to get trickled down into your organization. So we all need each other Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Speaking of finance and nonprofit I can you tell me about the magic of salary
accrual. Certainly, this is something that I became painfully aware of when I worked early in my career in the early 90s, for a Child and Family Services Agency. And this was an agency that did some awesome, excellent work, because we did foster care, adoption, preventive services and group residences for teens. And it's the first place where I ever worked, where we actually tracked this salary accruals on each position, meaning that somebody works in a position and then they leave and then it takes you a period of time to fill that position. Well, that gap in between the time that person left and the time they recruit leave was paid. And the time you hire somebody, there's like a block of budgeted money there that is unused, and we use it. I call it salary accrual. Some people call it vacancy savings and things like that. For example, one organization, I worked at pretty much how to target you had to have 6% vacancy savings in your department. And you weren't allowed to fill a position unless you were at or above that target. If you were like if you were at like 4% or 3% of vacancy savings, then like they wouldn't let you fill a position. Believe it or not. So. So the thing is, is that when doing that, especially when you're a nonprofit, you can use that money to like say, for example, one of the things we did was we had a hard time recruiting master's level social workers to do foster care and adoption casework. Now, FOSS countertop and adoption casework is tough work. And I have so much admiration and respect for people who still do that. The level of out of the I would say out of the 50, or 60, or 70 caseworkers we had working for our organization. I had one person at the MSW level doing that work, just one. But through using our vacancy savings or salary, accruals, and things like that, we were able to push through an adjustment in the salary scale, where it went from one to 10. Wow. And like the period of a year and a half and to this day, and that that was my goodbye yellow brick road. Where it's like I know it was early in my career that I did it. And I've done a lot of good work over the years, I still consider that to be one of my highest accomplishments.
Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. So we're running a little tight on time, I'd love to know, what would you suggest for those that are listening? What are the biggest pros of working for a nonprofit? Obviously, a con is you're not getting paid? Like maybe someone else that your peer, but what are some of the other pros? What are the reasons? You're I'm assuming you're sleeping well at night? or hopefully you're sleeping well at night? Yes,
yes, I would say the pros are more often than not when you work for a nonprofit organization, you're working for a truly mission driven organization. And there's something really cool about that. And I know that I work at a really cool place because where I was working prior to this, the medical director for the facility, when he found out I was leaving, and then he fat. And I described where I was going, he told me Can that place you're going to work sounds really cool. So I know it's cold. And and there is something just like really cool about that working for a mission driven organization now, all types of organizations across the United States have missions. Absolutely they do. And working for a nonprofit. I think it's working for a mission driven nonprofit having to having to do with making people's lives better. I mean, up to a plate because there's not there's working for a nonprofit that is working for a nonprofit, like say, for example, up until like two or three years ago, the National Football League was a nonprofit organization. Really? Yes, the teams are profit making enterprises, but the actual entity of the NFL was a nonprofit organization. I think Roger Goodell said, yeah, that's really not a good book for us. I think we better become a for profit corporation. That's
what that's Hilarious. I mean, he knows what does he mean? He makes like $40 million?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he does a great job. Don't get me wrong. But
I mean, when you think about it, like the NFL being a, like a nonprofit entity, it's, it's To me, it's hilarious. When I say working for a mission driven nonprofit, it does give your life purpose.
That's fantastic. So if you have time, I'd love to ask you one more question. Sure. What was the best advice that someone ever gave you? And then what would be some good advice that you would share with the audience today?
best piece of advice that was ever given to me was given to me by my father who used to drill this into me say, never carry your grudge. The only person who gets hurt by carrying a grudge is you the old Borscht Belt comedian Buddy Hackett said it differently. He said, Never carry a grudge while you're carrying the grudge. The other guy's out dancing, which I really love. But yeah, he said, learn to let things go. Because if you don't, you're the one who's going to end up being hurt, not the other person. Because I think it was Medgar Evers, who said this, he said he does a terrible thing. I'm the only one who gets hurt by hate is the one who's doing the hate. And because of all the people you hate 50% of them do not know that you hate them. And the other 50% they may know, but they just don't care that you do. There's no reason for it.
Yeah, that's good advice. I've heard something similar. It's like don't carry the grudge, because it's like taking a poison pill and expecting the other person to die or something like that. Well, that.
Yes. I've heard that. Yeah.
Oh, man Ken great conversation. So many good takeaways, I gotta tell you, I love again, it's You're so passionate about serving other people, a lot of takeaways, whether just your management style, that empathy. I think that's there's a lot to be said about that. I really like that approach by not blaming everybody, for the few that take advantage of things. Really interesting how your or I forgot what you called it, vacancy savings, or the salary accrual. That's awesome. And I hope other people that are listening, they can, if they're not familiar with that term, or how to do that, that's something that they can look into. I mean, you obviously have had to be really nimble and really creative, to do what you do on the level that you're doing. And I tip my hat for you. And I really appreciate what you're doing. I've always been a for profit guy. And now I feel a little bit better about being for profit, because you've made me feel better that at least my taxes at least are going towards something good. So so. So thank you for that.
I really appreciate everything you're saying. Thank you very much.
You got it. Make it a great day. Thank you for coming on the show.
All right. Thanks a lot. Take care. Have a good one.