I I I I Oh, Oh, Oh, recording in Progress. Director
I director, director,
director,
testing, testing. Miss Murphy, are you able to hear us on the Zoom side?
Yes, I can hear you. Thank you. Meeting of
the City Planning Commission will be starting momentarily, once we address a few technical issues, we apologize for the delay. The September 5 meeting of the City Planning Commission again will be starting momentarily. We apologize for the delay as We address a few technical issues. You
all right. Good afternoon, everybody, thanks for attending this evening we will be starting shortly. Thank you for being patient with US. Applause.
Testing, testing,
testing, Testing,
mic, check, oh, so,
Jack, Jack, Jack, hello, testing, you.
Mr. Royster, if we're good on your end, we're ready to go.
All right,
all right, we will proceed. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for attending our planning commission meeting this evening. It is September 5. The time is 529, we will call this meeting to order. Director Todd, can we have a roll call? Please?
You certainly may, Mr. Chair, Commissioner Bennett, present Commissioner Daniels is excused. He may be joining us virtually.
Commissioner Esparza,
present, Commissioner Harrison,
present,
Commissioner Lewis, present, Vice Chair Markowitz, present, Commissioner Russell
here. Chair Smith present, and Commissioner udavi Present.
Mr. Chair commissioners, you have a quorum. Present.
Thank you, Director. Moving on. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? There are none, all right, as there are no amendments to the agenda, I'm looking for a motion to approve the agenda as presented. So moved. Thank you, Vice Chair, do we have a second? Second? Thank you. Commissioner udavi, Director Todd, can we have a roll call for the approval of the agenda?
You certainly may. Commissioner
Bennett, frozen, approved, approved.
Commissioner Daniels again is excused. Commissioner Esparza approved.
Commissioner Harrison support, Commissioner Lewis support, Commissioner Markowitz support.
Commissioner Russell support, Commissioner udavi
support,
and Commissioner Smith support.
Call it Mr. Chair.
All right, the motion has passed to approve the agenda. Next we have the meeting minutes for May 2, 2024 I am looking for a motion to approve the May 2 meeting minutes. So moved. Thank you Vice Chair, looking for a second support. Thank you, Commissioner Harrison, all in support of approving the May 2 2024, minutes indicate your desire to do so with the sign of aye, aye, aye, and in opposition, sign of Nay. All eyes approve the Mason 2024, minutes. Next we have the we have two public heating, public hearings on our agenda for this evening, as staff might have indicated earlier, if you do have a desire to participate in either public hearing, make sure you fill out one of these cards and get them to any staff member in the room. That is how we will acknowledge you to speak. And if you are attending virtually, you can express your desire to participate in public comment by raising your hand within the Zoom platform. And then we'll call you into the audience virtually. So this is the 515 public hearing. This is a continued public hearing to consider the initiative of the Detroit City Planning Commission to amend the 2019 Detroit City Code, Chapter 50 zoning, Article XVII, Section 5017, 29 and section 15, 750, 1770, as follows. Zoning district map number 67 to rezone five parcels generally bounded by Glendale Street to the north, Memorial Street to the east, Fullerton Street to the south, and Southfield freeway to the west. From an m3 general industrial zoning classification to a m2 restricted industrial zoning district. Map number 68 to resume, five parcels, or portions of parcels, generally bounded by Tyler Street to the north, woodcomb Street to the east, Fullerton Street to the south, and Greenfield road to the west. From an m4 intensive industrial zoning classification to an m2 restricted industrial zoning classification addresses. 12874127001266812600,
Greenfield and 15200, Fullerton. All right, Miss sweater, will you be assisting up this evening with this item? Yes, Mr. Chair, all right, whenever you are ready, you can take it away.
May have permission to share my screen.
Yes, you do. Applause.
Okay, as you mentioned, this is a down zoning for it's in the general area that is part of the Schoolcraft improvement associations area that they cover. It is located in district one. You can see there is on the south eastern portion of that district right just before you hit district seven, it is generally along Southfield freeway to the west, I 96 to the east, or to the south, and Greenfield road to the east. And a little bit closer up, though, you can see that it is bounded by Fullerton Street to the south, and then Southfield to the west, Glendale Street to the north and memorial Street to the east. And that's for there, there where you see the number one. That's the first area, the second area with the number two, that has Whitcomb Street to the east. Again, it's Fullerton Street to the south, Mansfield to the west, and then either West Davison or Tyler Street to the north. So some background on this. CPC staff received a memo on april 24 2024 from city council president pro tem Tate, requesting the exploration of down zoning the subject areas. After researching this request, we have proposed the following map amendments in order to bring these subject parcels into conformance with the city's master plan of policies, as well as to protect the health, welfare and safety of the surrounding community by reducing the intensity of uses that are currently permitted in these areas. These areas were have been historically zoned for heavy industrial uses, and the zoning has not changed since they were originally zoned in the 1940s
one second my computer just froze. There we go. So again, the current zoning on the Southfield and Fullerton area, where it is m3, currently to the north of that. It's zoned r1 single family residential. It's currently developed with occupied residential as well as a religious structure. And that m2 there is also part of the religious use there. There's a church on that property. To the east, it's planned development that's a multi family housing development, and that is also occupied. To the south into the west there is no zoning. Those are Southfield freeway and I, 96 for the Greenfield and Fullerton area. To the north of that. There's r1, single family residential that is primarily developed and occupied. And b4, general business with both religious and commercial uses. To the east is m2 that's immediately east, the northernmost parcel that you see here, for the reason the subject parcels, that's actually a split parcel, so that is part of that same parcel, but the m2 district that's all restricted industrial and it's used as warehousing. There is storage of of the large containers there, the semi truck containers and trucks there, as well as other warehousing. To the south, again, there's no zoning. That's I 96 and to I don't, oh, to the west. Sorry, I'm looking at this and seeing Greenfield road. I apologize, I got myself confused. To the west there along Mansfield, you have r1 again, single family residential that is primarily occupied. You have our two, two family residential it's actually primarily single family homes there. And b1 is just that one small sliver. It is commercial land. It is technically vacant. Is the legal use on file, but there is storage of commercial vehicles, most of which look inoperable when we visited the site. Some of the current permits and uses that are on record right now include concrete crushing facility, carbonic gas storage, carbonic ice storage, manufacturing of various automotive oils and fluids, cell tower, truck repair, garage demanufacturing of home appliances, storage and sales of used cars, junkyard, amongst other uses that are going on Amongst if you look at the three different areas, these are just some aerial views with from Google images. And you can see some of the businesses here, as well as you know the proximity to the residential here. This is Southfield freeway, and I 96 you can see that's the plan development there to the east, with the apartments here is Greenfield road to the east, Fullerton there in the South, in Mansfield to the west, the concrete crushing facility is there in that North or southeast corner. And then some of the other industrial uses there along Mansfield in Glendale to the north. And then this is where Greenfield is to the west, Whitcomb to the east. And this is where it is, the m2 on that eastern portion, m4 on that western portion there.
And this is just another aerial view of the Greenfield and I 96 area.
Some other street views. This is from Fullerton street between Memorial and Southfield, and this is looking from where the apartments are on the left side there. The right side is just up the street, just a little bit at one of the industrial uses there. It is a we weren't able to gain access to this particular structure or this particular building. It is some type of gas supply. This is on Whitcomb street, looking north from Glendale there, that's just east of Greenfield.
Planning and Development Department did provide a master plan interpretation the future land use for this and for all of these subject parcels is light industrial, as well as a small bit of neighborhood commercial. They found that this down zoning would be consistent with the Master Plan designation.
And here on this chart, which we showed in the first public first portion of this public hearing on july 25 it's just some of the uses that are currently allowed on these properties that would not be allowed in the m2 so these would not be allowed, even conditionally after this down zoning, just a few of them would include junkyards, racetracks, seam generating plants, explosive storage, rent. Rendering plants, radioactive waste handling, scrap tire storage, processing and recycling, sewage disposal plants. So as of right now, these are all uses that are allowed, and the down zoning would no longer allow these to be a lot to be on these properties, Yes, Mister Chair.
Thank you. Are any of these uses current, currently operating?
Yes, Mister Chair. And so that would also include concrete, crushing things of that nature. That is not to say that if this down zoning were to pass, that the operations that are currently in place would not be able to operate. They would become non conforming uses, as long as they are currently legally operating, which we can get into further on into the presentation or with your questions later on. So public engagement. There was a School Improvement Association meeting, and I mean just in general, the Schoolcraft Improvement Association has engaged a lot with the community, but on June 20, 2024 CPC staff did go and present the information to at one of their association meetings, answered questions. There were both residents and businesses from the area present at that meeting. Residents were overwhelmingly in support of the down zoning, in addition to CPC staff, city council president pro tem Tate was in attendance at the meeting. He answered questions and also discussed the down zoning with the residents as well as members of his staff. And since then, President Pro tems staff has been engaged with the community as well, and the SIA has continued to engage with the community and with pro tems office, in addition, as we indicated to this body, during the July 25 hearing, we CPC staff, along with pro tem staff, went out to businesses and engaged with owners, managers, employees. We went door to door to as many businesses as we could get into that had doors that were open, gates that were open, or that we could anything we could get into, and spoke with people. As I know that it seems like there should be a lot more businesses that we spoke to, but of the 33 parcels, a lot of these, it's the same owners of multiple parcels. These are big businesses, but we did get to speak with nine businesses, or nine owners or managers of businesses. If we didn't speak to the owner or manager, I did not count them in that number, there were seven of those that were neutral, nobody expressed overwhelming opposition at that time, we have since had one that was has asked a lot of questions and is not sure that it would depend on how it would impact their business and the timing of how this would work out. And then we had two businesses in complete and strong support, is how they put it. We did speak with managers and employees outside of owners of three businesses, and of those, one was in one was neutral on this, and two were in support. The majority of those that we visited did express concerns regarding environmental factors and the general conditions of that area based on just the heavy industrial some of the uses in that area and what it's causing so that is all that I have for you, and I would love to answer any questions that you may have. All
right, thank you. Thank you for the great presentation and bringing this item back. I'll start with my fellow Commissioners for question, Vice Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, thank you. Miss fed for a great presentation. Really appreciate it. Just quick question over the 33 parcels, how many different businesses slash owners, are there in total,
there are I 2222
Okay, great. I, for one, always in favor of down zoning when industrial is right next to, you know, residential areas for the health and welfare of everybody, as well as the view shed, I think it would benefit everybody in the room and the audience to have you speak a little bit more about what a non conforming use is. I think that would benefit everybody in the room. Please,
yes, through the chair, a non conforming use means that, right now they are allowed to operate, and they are operating under a permit that is currently allowed under the zoning, as it stands under the new zoning, they would not they would not have been allowed to get that permit, but they're going to be able to continue operating Under the permit, under any current variances, any conditional use that they are currently operating under, they will continue to be able to operate as they are, as long as they're legally operating right now. And that use will be able to go with the land. They can sell their property in their business. It will continue with that they cannot pull any as as I am recalling and please correct me if I'm wrong. Colleagues, they cannot pull any permits that would allow them to intensify their use in the future. But they as long as they continue operating, they can continue operating in the manner that they are.
Thank you very much. Just to underscore that, you know, if this zoning rezoning down, zoning does go through, that those businesses will continue to operate as is. But if, for example, they were to apply for a permate to, you know, expand their building or expand their uses, they would not be allowed to do so because it would be subject to the new zoning. Or if they wanted to change what they were doing there to another like M for use, they wouldn't be able to do so. So while it's not an immediate fix for down zoning, it inhibits future growth. And ultimately, the goal would be to have it down zoned entirely yes
through the chair. That is, yes, exactly.
That's it. That's all I have.
Thank you, Vice Chair, for eloquently putting that together. And thank you, because I was going to bring up some of those same points just to, you know, set a level of expectations, you know, so that, as vice chair indicated, this is a long range strategy, not necessarily a short term quick fix to the issues that are going on in that area, those need to be handled, kind of in a separate conversation. Would that be correct?
Yes, Mister Chair,
okay, thank you. And also, do you have a any indication of how many of those 22 businesses would be legally non conforming. Mr. Chair, there
would be. There's not very many that would become non conforming. And this is just our preliminary research. Obviously, it is not our department that ultimately is the deciding authority on this.
Sorry. What department would be that would be BC on determining if a property is conforming or not. Yes, Mr. Chair,
there is only a handful of the businesses. And again, it is difficult. From the permits that we were able to pull up, we don't know necessarily exactly what type of manufacturing, especially the ones that we couldn't get into, um, but at least five that I was able to count, and some of those are on the same like the same owner,
and you've been in contact with those owners, they're aware that you know this may be going on or it may be impacted.
Yes, Mr. Chair, all except for one of them, and that owner, all of the owners have received the letters stating that we were proposing the rezoning at the very least. And they received it both to the business location, and if the taxpayer of record had a different address, they also received that letter there, but the one of them, we were not able to gain access or find a different way to contact them, but we did attempt to Okay, and we went out twice, actually attempting to to those properties. Yes. Mr. Chair, okay.
Thank you. All right. Do we have any other questions? Yes. Commissioner Bennett,
thank you, Mr. Chair, do you know the legal status of the current businesses? Are they operating legally with a permit
through the chair? I do not. We were. We do not. I don't have the access to all of that information, and we didn't have the ability to get that deep into that that's all kind of these seeds that they they hold that information. Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner. And to follow up on that question, are you aware of any properties that are operating without any proper permitting within that area, those areas,
without binding anything just, are you aware?
Mister Chair, yes, yes, I am okay.
And those properties that are operating without a permit, they would not fall under that legally confirming conforming because they don't have permitting. Is that a b? Does that become a BC issue, or is that just a planning issue? That's my question.
Mister Chair, yes, that that would become something that they need to work with BC on and try to get their permitting in order. I don't know what order things need to go in. Yeah. Director Todd, take that
through you, Mr. Chair, or two and two and through you, Mr. Chair. In response to the question, when some of these issues come up, BC will do the necessary investigations. They will send out inspectors in some instances, BC, where they know certain activity taking place, will take even more aggressive activity going out and closing down an operation show cause. Hearings will be held where an entity will then be given the opportunity to, you know, present, respond and present having the burden of proof on them that they are legally operating, with some other items that have been before you, just over the past, the course of the past year, there are actions there. There are instances, rather, where the city has actually taken legal action beyond simply the issuance of violations and the procedures for for ending a use, and let's just say that all of those things are In play in this situation and elsewhere across the city. Okay?
Thank you, Director. And I asked these questions. So I imagine you know, as these things go forward, the public may have additional comments or concerns that may continue, and I attempt to just clarify where you can direct your comments so BC would handle a lot of those issues that may come up as it relates to sites that may or may not be conforming following any action that happens here. Okay, all right, thank you. And I see no further questions. So again, this is a public hearing, or continue public hearing from a previous meeting. And if you do wish to participate again, just make sure you get a car here from staff, fill it out and then give it to anyone here in the room. For the sake of time, we do have two public hearings this this evening. Yes, two. So our public testimonies are three minutes. So everyone will have two minutes. Thank you directors out there two minutes, and we will be very stern on the two minutes. So again, I'll give you an earlier apology if I cut you short, or if anyone on the panel here cuts you short, we just have to be respectful of everybody's time. So with that, we will open the continued public hearing. The way this will work is I will start with the audience in the room, and then staff will assist me with any audience members that are attending virtually. I will call up two to three names at a time, and you can queue up at these two mics. This would be to your right, my left behind. Director Todd, when you get to the mic, just tap the mic, the light will turn green, and then your two minutes will start. Alright. So without any further ado, the first two names I have up front are Chris Sema, Liz, Jacob Beverly, Hagler and Sharon Woodard. Those are the first four names here. When you're ready, you can have a seat and we will begin.
Alright, whenever you're ready, name and two minutes. Okay,
good evening. Chris SEMA with Atlas consulting, 400 Monroe, Detroit, on behalf of L and D transport. At 12, 874, Greenfield, we commend the city of Detroit for its efforts to modernize land uses and establish a balance between residential and commercial industrial districts. As a business consultant representing L and D transport, I'm here to express our concerns regarding the potential impact of this rezoning on our clients, business operations, L and D transport has been a valued member of the Detroit business community for over a decade. Their commercial property is located off of Greenfield road and the i 96 expressway, and is strategically important for their operations while they support the city's efforts to address fugitive dust issues from neighboring businesses, they have become increasingly concerned about the potential limitations of m2 zoning on their own business operations L and D. Transport plays a critical role in Detroit's economy by providing essential shipping services, their operations ensure the uninterrupted flow of goods and help to keep shipping costs competitive for businesses throughout the region, the rezoning could have significant implications for their ability to continue serving their customers and contributing to the local economy. We respectfully request that the planning commission grant us additional time to fully understand the potential impact of this rezoning on our clients business. We believe that a more comprehensive understanding of the situation will help us identify measures to mitigate any negative consequences and ensure LMDS continued success. We are committed to working with the city and local neighborhood associations to find a solution that supports supports both our clients continued success and the broader goals of this rezoning initiative. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Next up, we have Liz Jacob,
whenever you're ready.
Hi, my
name is Liz Jacob. I'm an attorney at the sugar Law Center for Economic and Social Justice. My practice is in environmental justice. I regularly serve as an environmental justice attorney throughout Metro Detroit. I have worked for several months now with the Schoolcraft Improvement Association, and I've had the privilege of getting to work alongside so many residents of this neighborhood. I have heard from residents the impact that industrial activity is having on their health and well being. Folks are not going outside. They're not barbecuing with their families. They're not walking around in their neighborhood. Folks have asthma, the respiratory issues that are seriously impacting their ability to work, live and thrive in their community. This is a corner shown example of environmental injustice. It is so important that this Commission Act today to protect the health and well being of the community, to allow all residents and workers to thrive. I just want to draw your attention to the Michigan Environmental Justice screening tool. Per the screening tool, we're able to see that the Schoolcraft neighborhood is home to around 4000 residents. Over 99% of the residents identify as Black or African American in this neighborhood, we see that the neighborhood itself is in the 94th percentile for asthma in the entire state of Michigan, because of the impacts that asthma has on your health and well being and your life expectancy. That means that residents of this neighborhood, who again are disproportionately black residents, are being exposed to so many pollutants that their life expectancies are lower than 94% of the rest of the state. That means the burden of pollution already existing in this community is far too high. Allowing more heavy industrial activity in this neighborhood further jeopardizes the health, well being and futures of these residents. We need to come together and down zone this neighborhood, I and the entire sugar loss center are extremely proud to support this effort. We would be thrilled to see this neighborhood down zone to m2 thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Miss
Jacobs. And quick question, what is the name of that tool you mentioned?
Yes, it's the Michigan Environmental Justice screening tool. It's maintained by Egle. Thank
I do have a printed environmental justice screening tool.
I have a printed copy that includes the screenshots. If that's helpful for
you all to see if you could give it to staff, I'll come grab it.
All right, and before we continue, I would like to recess the 515 public hearing to the call the chair. It is six o'clock, so I want to acknowledge and call the 6pm public hearing. And then I will recess the 6pm public hearing to the call of the chair and then resume the 515 public hearing. And next up we have uh Beverly Hagler and then Miss Woodard. Woodward. Woodard, followed by Patricia Wheatley and Greg Wheatley,
okay. My name is Sharon Woodard. I have been a resident of the Schoolcraft neighborhood since 1979 and my address is 128964, year I live two blocks west of Greenfield and one block north of Fullerton. I am one block north of the Green Valley concrete Crusher business. I can stand on my front porch and see the mountains of crush concrete that is piled up on that company's yard. The Schoolcraft neighborhood should be down zone from m4 intensive industrial to m2 restricted industrial. When I moved to this community back in 1979 the area was a nice residential neighborhood. It has changed to an area that includes industrial businesses that is causing an environmental hazard to the residents of this community, many may face health issues due to their presence. I am currently under doctors care due to lung disease the presence of this polluted business has caused decline in my health. If they remain, I must move, and I know I will have to face difficulty in selling my home anyway. I would not want someone else to be exposed to this hazardous environment, the dust covers my backyard, patio furniture and my car, which needs frequent washing, I must keep my windows in my home closed to cut down on the dust coming into my home, although dust still gets in from the chimney and vents on my roof when I leave my home, I must have my car windows up when traveling on Greenfield, especially on windy days when there are dust storms, that makes it difficult to see which
Thank you, Mr. Girl, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. Your time is up, and we thank you for your comment. Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Next up, we have Beverly Hagler.
I'm Beverly Hagler, best friend of Sharon, and she invited me to come yesterday. We're My concern is the lady that sat next to me is for the health of human beings that are living in the area. Both Sharon and I are registered nurses BSNs and I have watched her health deteriorate, and it's less it's very disheartening and emotionally devastating to see her. We used to she would able to walk long distances, and now she has to stop and EMS has been called, and she spent time in the hospital with the respiratory conditions. And both of us are retired from the Detroit health department and spent most of our lives, our nursing careers. For me, 57 years, helping people and retiring from the health department knowing what it's like to be in the community and see the devastation of pollutants in the environment both I worked as a lead nurse for four years, so I was able to see the result of what happens when kids are exposed to high levels of lead and see them climbing the walls. I also worked with first time pregnant mothers and for a program that was out of Colorado, and they were shocked at the number of respiratory conditions we have in Detroit with our children, and the disabilities and the money that spent because they are disabled And to to to see newborns after they've been here just a few weeks already. Having asthma is just it's just devastating to see these kids suffer and people thinking,
is up. I'm so, so sorry also. Thank you very much for your public service to the city. Next up we have Patricia Wheatley, followed by Greg Wheatley, well, then we could come up. That'd be great. Thank you. And on deck, we have Joan Beattie,
please
go ahead, Patricia.
My name is Patricia Wheatley. I live on Woodmont Street in Detroit, Michigan. For the last 47 years, I used to walk the neighborhood. Can no longer do that because you're breathing toxic dust going and coming. I'm very concerned about the children that go to the Dawson elementary school, K through eight. They're young, their lungs are undeveloped, and we never know what our health is going to be like. I'm a senior citizen, and, you know, I've been breathing this dust for the last four or five years from the concrete crushing company. You go up on the bridge on Greenfield and there's so much dust it you have your windows up, but the dust comes into the cabin of your car, and you see people walking you see people riding motorcycles. They have to duck their head because it's so much dust, the dirt up there is tremendous. And I would invite any of you to come up there and sit for like 30 minutes, and you'll see, and they have the street sweeper sweeping, and it only just spreads the dust all over your car. The cars in the driveway have dust on them. They spray water on the dust in the street, your car. You ride over that. If you've ever rolled over some concrete, wet concrete, it gets into your car and your cars, you know, it just runs the paint on your car. So with that, I am hoping that the Commission will down zone this area from m4 and m3 to a m2 and thank you so much for your time. Thank
you very much. Mrs. Wheatley, appreciate it. Yes. My
name is Thomas G wheelie, I live as in the school crowd for the past 47 years. Raised my family here. When Green Valley concrete company came into my neighborhood, I know that there was a tremendous amount of dust in the air. We don't know what this does, and we don't know the impact of how it affect our health. The company does not know. I don't think they care about what they are doing to us with all the industrial activity in our neighborhood, many members of our community have struggled with many health problems, especially our seniors and children. We have a K to eight school in our area, young kids still have undeveloped lungs. Who knows what their future health would be when they have so much toxic pollution in our neighborhood? I believe that down zoning the prop parcels and Schoolcraft community from m3, and m4, to m2, will protect our health, Environment and Natural Resources. I believe that this down zoning will protect me and my neighbors from even more toxic dust being emitted into our air from new companies like dynamite, concrete Crusher life would be a lot better if there were no man made pollutions in our community. This is why I strongly support the City Planning Commission effort to zone zone the apostles in the Schoolcraft neighborhood, from an m4 intensive industrial and m3 general industrial district to a m2, industrial district. Thank you for your time.
Very much, sir. Next up we have Joan Beattie, followed by Raven Robinson and Patricia Marshall. I think I'm reading that right?
Miss Beatty, yes.
My name is Joan Beatty, and I'm a senior, 86 years old, and resident Detroit, Michigan. I have been a resident of the Schoolcraft neighborhood for 47 years, living at 12962, St Mary's, Detroit, Michigan. I've been retired from my job since 1995 and enjoying without any serious health issues. Until a few years ago I started having breathing problems and noticing a lot of excess deaths and trucks driving down my side street on Davidson. I live on a corner where my house is located, and I have entertained and enjoyed sitting and relaxing in my backyard. But due to the trucks tearing up the roads, causing potholes and the dust, it has been a concern and a problem for my health and my family and friends. Due to the inhaling of these dust particles, also in 2020 I had to have a double bypass, and my breathing has become more difficult. I'm afraid to be outside to walk, which is a must for exercising my body, for my physical health. The neighborhood has changed in the last few years due to the activity Green Valley properties on Greenfield has caused there's a mountain of dirt in our community from the this concrete crushing dust facility piles has been getting bigger and bigger, and the neighborhood used to be full of fruit trees. We used to have apple trees and pear trees and berry trees. Now this concrete crushing facility has turned our neighborhood into a dusty and unsafe place to live. The neighborhood Green Valley, we're concerned about our sia community garden, the children going back and forth to school, and our local business to be able to thrive due to the dust and dirt, I'm strongly support the Schoolcraft neighborhood Planning Commission in its efforts to down zone from A m4 m3 intensive, eventual district to an m2 restricted industrial district. I thank you for the time.
Thank you very much for your comment and testimony. Next we have Mr. Raymond Robinson, please go ahead, sir, good
evening. My name is Raymond Robinson. I have been a resident in the Schoolcraft neighborhood since 1981 43 years. My address is 12808, Archdale. I support the downsizing from m4 to m2 in the school tramp district, Green Valley came into our neighborhood as a Trojan horse, promising to bring jobs and be like a neighborhood home depot where we could get gardening supplies. However, once they were allowed in, they became like the 10 plays God released against the Egyptians, the dust created by the operations has had a tragic effect on the quality of life in our neighborhood, borrowing from a proper proper a popular jingle like a bad neighbor. Green Valley, don't care. In conclusion, there's country music song regarding a couple's divorce settlement. My version is Green Valley got the gold mine. Schoolcraft neighborhood got the shaft. The ball was dropped by the city allowing this business in, I urge you commissioners to come see for yourself, but watch out for the potholes caused by the tractor trailers coming into Green Valley. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Mr. Robinson, next we're going to go to Patricia Marshall, followed by Kelly Perdue, and then George Perdue, and also for public comment, just to keep things rolling along, I have your addresses here written on these public comment cards, so no need to state it aloud. Thank you so much. And go right ahead,
Patricia, my name is, excuse me, my name is Patricia Marshall. I'm an active member with the school craft Improvement Association. You have my address. I've been in the neighborhood for 49 years with my family. I chose this neighborhood because of the home, the environment, the stores, the friendliness of the neighbors, the restaurants and elementary school that you have heard about earlier in walking distance of my home, the large trucks hauling gravel down the nape down the neighborhoods. Got nervous. Hold on throughout the neighborhood, I have submitted a picture of my basement where the main being in my basement is split. I've had it secured. We have cameras. Have signs and cameras and then telling the trucks not to come to the neighborhood. They don't care. They come in the mornings. I have time to seven o'clock in the morning, and have late at 930 in the evening. I We have potholes that you've heard earlier. I don't call them potholes. I call them small private ponds, because if it rains hard, we have a pond. We can't get the city to fix the sidewalk. I welcome any and everyone without notice. You can come to my home. I'll take you to my basement and show you this area where the large trucks, these 18 wheelers come down the side I live on the corner. You're more than welcome to come into my basement and see the split in my main being, where you on the note on the picture, you'll see what I have these large screws to hold this being, I'm only 145 pounds, but if I was over, I might sink through the floor. Thank you very much for your time and your patience. Thank
you very much. Next we're going to go to Kelly Perdue. Go right ahead.
Hi, I'm Kelly Perdue. I grew up in this neighborhood, playing outside childhood friends going to Dawson elementary a couple blocks away from my parents house. I also grew up with frequent asthma attacks that required trips to the hospital. Thinking back now, as an adult, maybe if our neighborhood was never zoned for heavy industry, my parents would have had to make so many trips in the middle of the night to the ER, over 20 years later, I've come back and seen and seen the neighborhood is still being challenged over the right to a clean and safe environment for our community members, families and children to grow and live in with the newest addition of a concrete Crusher on the edge of the neighborhood with piles of Dort piles of dirt stories high, dust clouds obscuring the vision of drivers and pedestrians alike. This does not bolster trust in our city government. It shows neglect and contempt for your own citizens and their health in a neighborhood that's over 90% African American, you can't call it anything but environmental racism. I stand with my community members, elders, families and children, and support their proposal down to down zone, the Schoolcraft industrial areas from in for an m3 to m2 for our health, our safety and the integrity of ourselves and our city. We cannot say Detroit is in a moment of renewal and come back when its own citizens are being choked by the air they breathe, the air we all breathe. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Next we're going to go to George Perdue, followed by Tanya Pittman, followed by Michael Banks, go right ahead. Mr. Perdue,
thank you and good evening. George Perdue, Schoolcraft Improvement Association president, my wife and I have lived in the Schoolcraft neighborhood for almost 30 years, and have raised two wonderful children in this beautiful neighborhood. We have also enjoyed the benefits from residing in this neighborhood where the residents truly care about the community and are sincerely committed to improving and preserving a clean, safe, thriving neighborhood. Unfortunately, within the past two years, the clean, safe neighborhood we have known for years has become unclean and unsafe because of the concrete crushing facility that operates in our neighborhood, and we daily experience the negative health and safety impacts of the concrete crushing facility. We are subjected to daily toxic dust emissions dangerous dump trucks and towering dirt piles directly associated with this concrete crushing facility. These conditions negatively affect both the physical and mental well being of our residents and passers by. In other words, this concrete crushing facility has greatly diminished the quality of life in our neighborhood for our neighborhood residents. As president of the Schoolcraft Improvement Association, I have spoken with dozens of residents, workers, small business owners and community members in our neighborhood. From these conversations I've heard time and time again, the negative impact that our neighborhood's heavy, intense industrial activity has had on our health, well being, businesses and environment. Now the good news, however, despite the negative ramifications of a nearby concrete Crusher, our neighborhood continues to move forward with proactive initiatives that will improve and transform our neighborhood, our neighborhood businesses and residents are currently engaged in a retail study that will put us on track to improve existing business and provide opportunities for new retail, ad amenities and community spaces. Our award winning community garden has received two grants that enabled us to beautify and transform our garden into a more beautiful and enjoyable community space. We have collaborated with Lawrence Tech, School of Architecture and Design, have received an outstanding community development framework that contains several extraordinary concepts to transforming our neighborhood. These are examples that show the level of commitment that Schoolcraft residents possess to improve and transform our neighborhood, realizing our vision is of improving and transforming neighborhood, it's only possible if our neighborhood is down. Zone to m2 Mr.
Perdue, I'm so sorry to interrupt your two minutes is up, but I really appreciate your testimony. Thank you. I want to call on my fellow Commissioner, he does have a question for you right quick, sir. Hey,
thank you for coming and presenting. And I just had a question. When did this concrete crushing start?
Um, they, they received a permit. I believe it was in 2000 2018 they've received the permit, and since that time, they have progressively ramped up to to where they are now at this at this stage of where we're being impacted.
It. Do you remember the community getting notified in 2018 did we? Do you remember was the neighborhood notified in 2018 that this was coming?
Not a concrete question? I think that was that was presented by Mister Robinson. What we were presented with at at the community meeting, was that this was a a garden shop, a garden shop. This is what, this is what we were told. This is what I distinctly remember, landscape, a landscaping supply store. And but since that time, and that's true, you know, it is a landscape supply store. But in addition to the landscape Supply, we've got a concrete question, and since that we've, we've come to realize and know that it was all along a plan for a concrete Crusher. So we were, we were solar bill of goods.
Thank you very much. Do you have any further questions? No, thank
you. Madam Chair, thank you. Thank you.
Yes, Commissioner Lewis,
my question is to staff, was the zoning? Did the commission make a zoning change at any time in the recent in recent history, or has the zoning been the m, m2
Through you, madam chair to Commissioner Lewis, the zoning has been the same since the original zoning code. So it was originally heavy manufacturing, or the equivalent there of prior to the change in when it became m4 and it has stayed the same sense, okay,
so my mistake, but the zoning has been m4 since the zoning code came into existence. Is that what I mean, or
the equivalent thereof? Yes. Okay, thank you. And to Commissioner Russell's question as well, and not to correct Mr. Purdue, but the license was actually issued, or the permit was actually issued in 2019 and they did put in a they did apply to expand the crushing facility in 23 but so far, that was denied. So there did express interest in expanding that facility. Okay, I
have one more question, but before we go through that, I just have a note for the audience that I know public hearings can take a little while. If you have to leave for any reason and you have public testimony, feel free to write it down and hand it to staff. We will read it absolutely. Yes.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and you probably already, it's probably in the report. I just glanced over there. You already, you guys already said it, but it is concrete crushing, a allowable use in m4 or is it a conditional use in m4
Through you, madam chair to Commissioner Russell, it is a loud in m4
so the the procedure would have been that they they didn't have to notify the neighborhood of the the concrete crushing and and then excuse my ignorance, the the uh, Building and Safety monitors the performance of that or what entity would say you're performing concrete crushing correctly on the site, yes, um,
through the chair to Commissioner Russell, that is exactly correct. It is building safety that monitors make sure that they are meeting all of these standards that they are supposed to, that they are not operating outside of any of you know. They're meeting all the environmental safety regulations that they are supposed to things of that nature, that they are, and that also would be the ones issuing any tickets of any type, any that takes care of all of that. And yes, they they are allowed to operate in the m4 District, which all of that land going all the way up to Mansfield, which is where the residential properties are at, is m4 and they do own land all the way up to Mansfield and on Mansfield. Thank
you. I've got a couple more questions, but I will wait till after testimony. Thank you, Madam Chair, yes,
thank you. Commissioner Russell. Certainly want to. I'm sure we have a variety of questions and comments from the commissioners. I certainly want to entertain all of those. But let's get through public comment first, because I think we're going to take care of all of that kind of at once. So next we have Tanya Pittman, followed by Michael Banks and Russ. Forgive me, balance. I think that's right. Pittman,
good evening. My name is Tanya Pittman. I live at 12923, Archdale street Schoolcraft Improvement Association represents homeowners who are currently reside in the community for over 40 years. Many of these residents are seniors who have enclosed screen porches. These porches have been used in the past on a regular basis to enjoy fresh air. However, due to the change in the environment of concrete dust created by the dynamite concrete crushing company, many seniors and residents unable to utilize enjoy their screen porches for fresh air on a regular basis. Two commercial businesses, Michigan, steel spring company, located on Mansfield Greenfield and Metro building materials located on green Glendale street have also complained about the dust and the air pollution within the neighborhood. Large, tall mountains of crushed concrete can be viewed from Greenfield Mansfield Fullerton streets on the dynamite concrete crushing company site, the dust has been documented by videos throughout the year. We're very concerned, because the air pollution is affecting the playground for Dawson elementary school where the children attend the concrete company also has concrete hauling trucks that come through the neighborhood and have damaged the streets. We have a community garden that is being affected, also impacted by the air pollution. The Schoolcraft Improvement Association represents homeowners, business owners, churches and elementary school community gardens that are impacted by the disregard of dynamite, concrete crushing company, the neighborhood has changed from a healthy fresh air environment to an unhealthy environment due to air pollution from concrete dust and damaged streets created by the dynamite concrete crushing company, therefore I'm in favor of supporting m4 and m3 to be downside to m2 Thank you.
Thank you. Ms Pittman, Mr. Banks, good evening. Good evening, everyone.
My name is Michael Banks. I'm treasurer for the school, Traffic School Association. Uh, sitting here this evening, I think we've all heard of the quality increase in the in our of the quality of our environment, at the air, and how it's damaged all of us in our health issues. So I'm not going to be too redundant in that what noone has said this evening, one of our association meetings the city presented us with a report that the concrete crushing was cited for 47 violations, and since that time, they've only corrected maybe a handful of violations. I think that although we may not be able to shut them down, I think that one of the things that they had agreed on when they first came into the neighborhood, because they knew that the concrete crushing would cause a lot of dust, is that they would, they would agree to pave the road. Right now, what they're doing is watering down the dust. But you know, when that drive flares back up, but they had agreed to pave the road, if they paved the road, then a lot of that dust would be reduced, and I think all of us would be much happier with that. So, so that's one of the things I would like to see. But also, like mister Perdue said, I've talked with the principal at Dawson Elementary, Mr. Brown, and he's let us know that they've had a significant increase in asthma. A lot of the students that attend Dawson Elementary. Myself, my endocrinologist, Laura May and Dearborn, I have a hypothyroid. And she said it very well may be the enlargement of my thyroid is due to the dust quality now, so she's induced. She's increasing my dosage of my levothyroxine. I've been in community over 30 years. It's a great community, one of the best communities and one of the strongest, supportive communities in the city of Detroit, I would like to stay there, like all of us, and we need your help in doing so. Thank you.
I appreciate it. I'm so sorry. Although we
may not eliminate or terminate the situation, you guys can help us improve our quality of life.
Thank you, Mr. Banks. All right. Next we have Russ bellent. I think I'm reading that right. Forgive me if I mispronounced some of these names followed by Ooh, having trouble reading this, please forgive me. I think the address is 12731, Mansfield. Mansfield. Eric, maybe yes. Sorry, I couldn't read the handwriting. Yes. Director Todd, thank
you, Madam Chair, it appears that Mr. Belan did have to leave, not sure if he's left any additional comments, okay, but if I may, Madam Chair, quickly through you just to say to the members of the public, you may want to protect your personal information. Again, not necessary for you to provide your address. If you want to provide that to staff. In order to have information mailed to you, you can do so on your comment card, but it is not necessarily to necessary to provide that as part of your presentation. And you may also, though it may be impactful, want to be careful about other personal information that you share in this public forum.
Thank you very much. Director Todd, so we're going to hear from Eric, followed by Gladys, Moses Allen, and then Carol couch. I think it says Eric,
hello. My name is Eric Sims. I lived in the 12731, Smith. I lived at 12731, Mansfield Street, right across the industrial dirt hill. As a young indigenous man of the community, I realized that my as my way of life has been drastically in jeopardy due to this dusty oh and all and over the last years, I too have asthma Throughout this year, actually, I actually coughed up blood due to this asthma, I mean, due to the concrete crushing. Everyone in young like me say that we do not want this concrete cushion. We don't want we don't want it to downsize. We want it gone. So if it's possible, oh, for our way of life, for all of our people. Oh, indigenous people, will you please get rid of this concrete because otherwise we will all have to leave, or we will all die being there, because none of us have the money to really leave. We have to be real of ourselves as the economy blows up.
Thank you very much. Next we have Gladys Moses Allen, please go right ahead and
welcome. Okay, Gladys Allen, my family has three generations of family members living in this area. We have over 15 houses in this area. Most of us live on Mansfield, so it's three generations of us being exposed to this ourselves, our children, our grandkids, are all in that area. Dawson Elementary School is a big concern for me, because those kids play outside. Most of their parents don't even realize where their kids are breathing in. There are only five blocks from this big plant across the street from the free from the concrete plant, is O'Shea Park. It's a brand new facility they just built. Rarely do you see more than three kids out there. It's a brand new park that we got for our kids. They can't even go enjoy that we met with an environmentalist, and they told us, this is what they told us, in the wintertime, come into the summer, we should not go outside. We should wear a mask. We should not run our air conditioners. We should not sweep our houses. We should not vacuum our houses, because it would make the dust rise inside. So you wanted us to stay indoor, not go outside at all, right, up and down the street, you say, a handful of kids out there. We used to ride our bikes in the area. We used to go walking. We've been over there since 72 so we know everybody in our area. We don't even visit each other, like she says, No more barbecues or anything of that. Neces that, if it were dirt, if it were just dust flying in the air, that and this stuff is horrible, but this is concrete. It has silicone inside of it. Once it gets embedded to in your lungs, it can never come out. A document just recently showed 72 72% of the people that work at a concrete facility have to get their teeth replaced, because it makes their teeth once that stuff gets on their teeth, they have to pull them out. So 72% of people that work inside those plants lose their teeth. Googled up the air quality of the air in our area, and it was listed the same as the smog in LA. That's ridiculous.
Thank you.
My name is Carol couch. I'm a resident of Detroit, Michigan. I have been a resident of the Schoolcraft association for 10 years. I would like the Schoolcraft neighborhood to return to the vibrant community that once was and preserve our neighborhood. Green Valley properties has been in the neighborhood. I have not been able to sit on my porch, open my windows, walk, drive or enjoy the outdoors anymore. It has now become a commercial district where heavy duty trucks are traveling down our side streets to avoid the main roads, tearing up the roads, causing potholes and being a wear and tear on my car has cement on it and under it that won't come off science once we're posted to no heavy duty trucks allowed 16 willows traveling down our side streets, but have been removed also dust and dirt that these trucks are causing pollution in air, and I'm afraid to be outside, to walk or sit on the porch, which is my relaxation and enjoyment for my physical health and well being. In the last year, for few years, I have noticed a lot more access dust polluting the air, which I nor my children, can be outside for a long length of time. These are dust particles have been concerning factor for my health and my children since Green Valley properties, they have caused great concerns for the polluting the environment in our neighborhood, residential community and our local business due to the dust and the dirt we don't we don't know the impact that is going to have on our children, future generations breathing these dust parties. I strongly support the Schoolcraft neighborhood Planning Commission and its effort to down zone from m4 m3 to m2 residential industrial district. Thank you for your time.
Thank you very much. Miss couch. Are there any other others in the audience president in the room that would like to have public testimony today. This particular item only. Okay, thank you. All right, we're going to turn it over to our attendees that are joining us virtually. If you would like to speak to this particular agenda item, this particular agenda item only, I'd like you to raise your hand in the Zoom Room. You know, raise it now and we'll get to you, because I will cut off those hands in just a moment. And if I could have staff assist me in calling on our public speakers virtually.
Madam Chair, we are going to promote the phone number ending in 337 if you can give us one second, please,
sure. Thank
you so much.
Yes, phone number ending in 337 you're going to be unmuted and in the room in just a moment.
Madam Chair, they should be able to speak now. Okay,
you should be able to speak now. You have two minutes for your public comment. And thank you and welcome.
Phone number ending in 337, I believe we just need to unmute your device.
Yep, phone number ending in 337, if you can unmute your device,
hello. Can you hear me? We
can hear you. Welcome. You can go right ahead,
all right, thank you. I just for the record. I raised my hand in the Zoom presentation just to ensure that I would be heard, because I raised my hand long before the meeting was started, and I wasn't sure that my hand was raised and kept on record. So my name is Patricia Bosch. I'm a resident of the northeast side of Detroit, and you may ask why I am spending time this evening supporting the folks in the school craft community. That's because, like that neighborhood, our neighborhood of Northeast Detroit is facing similar issues where we believe we are betrayed by the zoning that has been established in the early 40s, long before people understood environmental factors and the detriment that those factors have on the quality of life. So we as Detroit voters and taxpayers are unified with the Schoolcraft community and ask that this down zoning request be approved. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Ms Bosch, Madam
Chair, the next speaker is ash rose. Ash, you should be able to speak.
Hi. Thank you.
Welcome. Welcome. Thanks.
My name is Ash Davis. I live at 3987, Lawton in Detroit. On behalf of the residents of the core city neighborhood, we stand in strong support of the down zoning of the Schoolcraft neighborhood. Core city has been a strenuous fight to prevent a concrete Crusher from going in beside our home, and we are so grateful for all the support we have received from the Schoolcraft community, who has been dealing with the negative impacts of concrete crushing and other heavy industries beside their homes for several years. We cannot put profits over people. Any motivation to continue making the few rich business owners even richer at the expense of the health and literal survival of the residents is extremely disturbing. My heart breaks for the residents of the community who are experiencing such severe health effects from the heavy industry, this is a dramatic example of environmental racism in action. The residents should never have been exploited like this in the first place. The sound zoning is a good first step to inhibit further harm to the community. I hope to see that the city takes action to shut down the current toxic toxic operations as swiftly as possible so the residents can begin to heal and regain the quality of life and dignity that they deserve. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Thank
you very much.
Madam Chair, the next speaker is Carolyn. Catless. Carolyn, you should be able to speak if you mute your device.
Go right ahead. Miss catlos,
hi to support the down zoning from m4 m3, to m2, I think the stories that we've heard tonight are incredible, amazing, and it's, it's a sad story. It's a story that I don't think is the picture that Detroit wants to portray, and I think we need to support our residents. I can't imagine any argument not to downtown. These residents deserve quality of life. They deserve restoration, and I'm in complete support. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your public comment. We appreciate it.
Madam Chair, the next speaker is Raquel Garcia.
Go right ahead. Ms, Garcia,
thank you. Good evening. My name is Raquel, Garcia, and I'm with Southwest Detroit environmental vision, and I'm I just want to my comments have changed. I'm pretty astonished that lnd would actually mention the local economy when we actually don't know how many jobs they produce. We don't know what taxes actually pay, you know, for schools or anything like that. We don't know that they don't have any blight violations, that they don't have any outstanding tickets or fines, that their water bills are paid. We've seen other companies when the dot collapse, we found that that company owed more than $100,000 in a water bill. So I don't really know. I'd actually like to know in more detail what they think the local economy means when we know that air quality in Detroit cost the city over 500,000 school absences annually, and more than 70,000 lost workdays annually due to air quality and other health related, you know, issues due to pollution, emissions and dust. We we've driven, you know, we're in southwest Detroit. We deal with many of the same types of mounds, and I drive down Southfield all of the time. Those piles are tall uncovered. The minute there's any big dust, you'll see the piles sort of losing their tops. They're not kept moist that I can see. They're not covered. They're not they're taller than the fences as listed as from the dust ordinance. And I just really don't understand how they can be talking about money when we have so many residents that are deeply, deeply impacted. I would invite the person who spoke the owners and all of their investors to buy homes in that neighborhood, and then come back and make those same comments again. Thank you very much for your time. I support the down zoning we and our 300 members support this community and the down zoning of this neighborhood zone. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Madam Chair, the
next speaker is Jalen Moncrief, they should be able to speak. Go
right ahead, Mr. Moncrief,
my name is Jalen Moncrief. I'm a face here
with Mr. Moncrieff, we can't hear you. If you could speak up. Excuse me. Can you hear me now? Just barely, I'm so sorry. Well, we can hear you now, that's better. Okay,
is that better?
Oh yeah, that's perfect. Great. Go right ahead.
Perfect. Hi everyone. My name is Jalen Moncrief. I'm a faith senior with plans to pursue a career in cybersecurity. After attending Central Michigan University, I've lived in Detroit my whole life, and the faith program has helped, has played a huge role in my personal and academic growth. Through faith, I become more confident and ambitious, and it's been a blessing to have the support system during such a critical time in my life. I believe projects like Merritt park can provide similar opportunities for students.
Mr. Moncrieff, I hate to interrupt you, but this is for public comment, specifically for the rezoning near Greenfield road. The next agenda item is the public hearing for friends of merit, so we'll take your public comment at that time. Thank you so much. No problem. It's all right,
Madam Chair, the next speaker is phone number ending in 500 be able to speak phone number ending in 500
Hi. Good evening. This is Diane. I'm calling from grandma neighborhood, which is just adjacent to Schoolcraft Improvement Association, on the board, as well as a community member for more than four or five years. I support the down zoning of this area. The sooner, the better. I agree with everything Mr. Robinson said, and a couple of people just recently put up the best of the the comments. The concern is that you you did gain access to a storage facility, and that is concerning to me, and it's also suspect. I feel that we need to know in our area, business wise, there are too many unhealthy aspects of just knowing the businessman mentioned the continued success earlier, that continued success should not negatively impact the health of people living in the area, and the business success owners are likely living in a healthy, non polluting community outside of our area. And I have one question I wasn't sure about, is the clarification if business is currently legally operating, but would be in non compliance with the new zoning if they sell their business, does that new business owner? Are they able to operate a non performing business? I would hope that that would not be the case.
Yes, thank you for that question. I'm going to turn it over to our staff. Miss fed, go right ahead,
yes, through the chair to our caller. If a business owner sells the property, the non conforming use does go with the land. They would be able to continue operating, as long as there was not an abandonment of use. If they did not stop use for a period of time, they would be able to sell that land and continue operating. Thank
you very much. Very much. Any other comments from our caller ending in 500, you've got 11 seconds. I take that as No. All right,
I would like to know if, I would like to know if that could be changed, because that's just ludicrous. It's so unhealthy, and we know so much more now than we did then. So it needs to be changed from a 40 year old zoning compliance. Thank
you very much for your comment and your question. We appreciate it. Thank you.
The next caller, Madam Chair in our queue. We have Pat Bosch next, but I believe she spoke under phone number 337, so I will continue on. And
also, if you would like to public comment, virtually, raise your hand. I'll be cutting it off after this next comment. Thank you.
The next speaker is Robert. Robert Howell, Robert, if you unmute, you should be able to speak, yes.
Can you hear me now?
Yes, we can go right ahead and welcome. Yes, um,
thank you very much. My name is Robert Howell. I'm the pastor, earned pastor of church that's located in the m2 zone area there on Glendale, right off the Southfield service drive. Our church has been in that neighborhood for over 37 years, and we interact and engage with many of the residents that's in the neighborhood, and particularly within the Southfield Improvement Association. Have a very good relationship with them, and I am definitely in support of the proposed down zoning from the m4 to the m2 zoning for the neighborhood, for the health and the welfare of the current residents, for those that attend our church, even though our church is on the far western end of the location there for Greenfield, but still many, many in the neighborhood, and many of our parishioners at our church, they come in And out and stuff. So we're certainly as religious leader and as a religious organization there in the neighborhood, are certainly in support of the health and welfare of all the residents in the neighborhood there. Thank you very much for your comment. Thank
you very much for your comment. At this time, we're going to close public comment with our last comment coming from Victor woods.
Victor woods, you just need to unmute your device.
Hello,
go right ahead. We can hear you.
Okay, hi. My name is Victor woods. I'm actually about I'm a long time friend, one of the residents in the area. I no longer live in the area of Sharon Woodard, and I just like to say I could see the difference in the area and the Newtons, and I've seen how the area has changed. But not only that, I'm a retired truck driver, and I used to dump soil just a few years ago, a couple years ago, at Dino mites, and some of the soil was not actually. It was not clean soil. It's, don't quote me on this, but I would highly recommend that someone goes over there with a health inspector and and test that soil, because a lot of the soil was contaminated due to my regulation, due to my regulation, that soil, some of that soil was contaminated soil, so, and that's pretty, I don't know all the zoning codes and all that, but I think that's it's not healthy at all. And that's pretty much all I have to say about that.
Thank you very much, Mr. Woods, we appreciate it.
You're welcome.
All right, with that, we will formally close public comment, just for this agenda item,
like I said, have a health inspector get over there, test that soil.
Thank you, Mr. Woods,
you're very welcome.
All right, public comment is now closed for this agenda item. Before I turn it over to my fellow Commissioners, I just wanted to say a few things on this item and reiterate some of the many concerns and issues we've heard from public comment today. First off, on a personally and professional note, and as a you know, a proud citizen of the city of Detroit, it is our duty to protect the health, in you know, welfare of our fellow community mentor members. And it is I'm just feeling very emotionally affected by the fact that this is hurting people's health, you know, very seriously, and that recreation and going outside and the dust and it's it's unacceptable, frankly, obviously, I told you before that, I'm certainly in favor of down zoning industrial uses across the board, I want to implore our staff to take a look at if the use of concrete crushing can be a special land use in the future in the zoning code, because having this in m4 district next to Residents is is not okay. I'd also like to see if, you know, if we could have air quality meters in this area and some other areas in the city of Detroit. I know some have been installed in southwest to track what the air quality is there. And, you know, also a B seed can, really enforce some of these violations that we potentially heard of, and also making sure that, particularly the concrete crusher is operating within the bounds of the law and safety. Lastly, the truck traffic on these residential roads. I've heard that there are signs saying no truck traffic if Ted traffic and engineering division of the Department of Public Works can take a look at this that would be most appreciated. And then my other question is, is this agenda item set up for action today? Or no.
Madam Chair, we did not set it up for same day action, no, okay. We did not okay.
I'd like to hear from my fellow Commissioners, but also, if staff has a recommendation on this item, I would entertain hearing it at this time, thank you,
Madam Chair, staff would recommend approval of this proposed rezoning. All
right. Thank you very much, and I'll turn it over to my fellow Commissioners, yes. Commissioner Bennett, Commissioner Lewis, go right ahead.
Thank you. Commissioners, the down zoning would render the concrete crushing company a legal, non conforming use correct
through the Chair. Yes, that is correct, Commissioner
and as a legal, non conforming use, as long as they maintain that use, they could do that in perpetuity, correct
through through the chair to Commissioner Lewis. That is true, but they could not expand their business at all.
I understand, yes, they could not expand. And what I'm getting at is that does not address the issues that the community have brought before us, the down zoning. And I can say that I too, am for the zone down zoning, but what I am saying also is it does not address the dust, the health hazards, all of the kinds of things that the individuals from the community have brought to us. What we have heard on Zoom and I would like to pose the question, if I may, Madam Chair, please do Commissioner Lewis, to the company, if anyone were here from the company, what dust suppression systems do you have in place? Are they state of the art dust suppression systems, such that the amount of dust that is accumulating inside and outside of these households can be dissipated to a degree that it is no longer a health hazard. Perhaps the gentleman that came before us earlier,
Through you, madam chair to Commissioner Lewis, that was a different company that came before, before you earlier. And so they, they are. They have no connection, absolutely not. It was L and D transport, yes, which is owned by a different company, their parcel understood,
yes, okay, is there? Could staff then speak to the concrete questioning company? And I do realize that BC would have to get involved, because that is what they do, to determine if there is a means by which the amount of dust and that community can be reduced, maybe by some state of the art. I don't, I don't, I don't know that business, but again, they will become a non illegal, non conforming use. They will remain, I want the public to understand they will remain in business as long as they meet certain criteria. So what we then want is for them to reduce the dust. Thank you, madam. Is it I would like for staff to address that with BC and or the concrete crushing company? Thank you, Madam, Chair,
Director, top,
thank you, Madam Chair, to through to the commission and specifically to the question raised by Commissioner Lewis. We can raise that issue with the law department. There is actually ongoing litigation on this issue, so we cannot enter, we cannot engage with them at this time. So again, there are continued issue, there are continued attempts to address one or more aspects of that operation, but we can certainly raise those concerns. And you know what we find ourselves in in this situation, as with some other similarly situated activities across the city, such as with the stellantis plant, we have both local regulations that and enforcement opportunities that are in play, as well as The state. And as I was alluding to earlier, when the chair raised the question, this is one of those situations, not only with respect to this particular that particular use, but some of the other activities in the area where one or more things are in play, in terms of violations being issued, being processed, and legal action being taken and or reviews, you know, at the local or state level. Thank you,
Director Todd, and if I may follow up with the question, could with the community then be able to anticipate at some point they would experience a change in the health hazards that they are now experiencing
optimistically through the chair, yes, but we are, I think, very realistic. And why we're, you know, taking the steps we are now that even though, as indicated, there may not be an immediate impact down the road. There could, in fact, be that more immediate impact. But I do think that much like with some of the other situations around the city and even elsewhere around the state that I've alluded to, we are finding it necessary for I believe there to be changes in legislation, state or even federal level to really begin to address the concerns that we're seeing, whether they are being manifested from the transportation infrastructure, as we've often talked about over the years, when it comes to the bridge crossings here in the city and and and all of the related activity to those, as well as the industry that exists in southwest Detroit, uh, historically and at present. And what we actually saw with the Federal Highway Administration and others was some recognition of that and an attempt to improve transportation to at least get the emissions down as they relate to the vehicular traffic. Again, I think it's going to take continued investigation, research and then policy change and development, federal, state and local level, really, to ultimately address what community is raising here today and again, sadly, you know, this community is not in this situation. Is not in isolation. To this community, to this particular community, we have similar circumstances again, around the city, around the state, and elsewhere across the nation, whether it is the the fugitive dust that has been before you, whether it is noise, whether it is particulate that exists in our air, whether it is the obvious results of this that are presented in the increased, significant increase of asthma here in Metro, Detroit, Southeast Michigan, as well as Windsor and this port and that portion of Ontario.
I really appreciate your giving us that detailed background of what what is being attempted at this time? Are there any, does the health department or any any other entities weigh in on this? I think I understand the community's concern in that, of course, it takes time. These, these laws have been in place, this, this zoning. The one of the speakers indicated the misunderstanding of what it would mean to one's health relative to having an m4 next to residential 40 years ago. Who knew, as we move through this process, can we give some some thought to how individuals throughout the city living in the shadows of these types of businesses might I don't even know what type of assistance they could be provided in terms of mitigating the health effects of these companies, but maybe making that a part of the discussion. Is there anything we can do today,
again, through the chair certainly staff can take further look at that if you want to actually make that again a component of your action, asking city council to explore that further. We can certainly carry that on. In terms of the jurisdiction when it comes to air quality, again, that is the state that's Eagle when it comes to some of the results and health issues. Yes, that burden does fall locally as well as the state. But in terms of, again, the regulation of it, that is still, that's not the state
within our purview. Certainly, I leave it to staff. I'm just concerned that I do not want the individuals here to walk away believing that this action, if it were taken today is going to be an immediate resolution to the problem that they have expressed. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Commissioner
Lewis. Commissioner Harrison,
oh yes, sorry. During you to Commissioner Lewis, I would like to assure you and make clear that both myself, commissioner or sorry, Council Member Pro Tem and his staff, we've been very upfront with the residents as well as we have spoke to them, as we have heard their stories, and we've been very upfront that, as Madam Chair mentioned, this is a long, long play, and unfortunately, as much as we would love to see an immediate impact, and as much as we would love that for them, and I Don't, you know, live awfully far from this either, you know, and I'm over there all the time as well. So it's as much as we would love to see that we've made it very clear. We've been very upfront about this in the meetings, and it is something that we've discussed regularly, just just to reassure you that that is something that we've been very open about and tried to be. Thank
you so much. Just adding on to that, whatever decision that this body does make, along with whatever that is, I'd like to for the record, implore City Council and the executive administration and the state to institute immediate measures to mitigate the health hazards near concrete pressures, until the litigation can proceed accordingly. Which will take. Litigation takes a long time, but these communities need help now. If there's anything that City Council or the mayor can do to help these communities. In the meantime, it needs to be done. Thank you, Commissioner Harrison,
thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. And you know, I want to also reiterate or share some of the the comments that have already been made. I appreciate the testimony, the comments from residents about what they've experienced, and bringing in your lived experience, and talking about the quality of life that you all deserve within your community. I think that's really important the comment or I have a few questions, and let me start with this one, because we did mention the state and energy, Great Lakes and environment, are there, are there permits or any type of yearly monitoring that the state does that concrete crushers have to receive? Is there any type of monitoring or required permits the state level for these types of businesses that exist in the
city through the chair. Chris Gulak, CPC staff, yeah, just doing a Google search. Well, obviously we need to meet with BC and possibly Egle to get more information. But just Googling, we did find an inspection report. It was, it says DEQ, but it's now Egle, an annual inspection report on the web inspecting that property.
Okay, okay, it Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that, Mr.
Mr. Bucha, and
that's from that was on the web, but you said it, it said it was sort of D I'm sorry, the MDQ correct. It was prior name. So that's probably from some time ago. I'm wondering, is there a like, a more recent
share? It's actually from August of 2023 it's on DEQ letterhead. I don't think they changed their letterhead to match the new Egle letterhead. So it I think they do an annual this was an unannounced inspection. We could share it with the Commission, but they do. They appear to do annual inspections unannounced to see if they're meeting the requirements of the permit. Thank you. I haven't been able to find permit violation page yet, but I'm still looking for that. Okay,
okay, yes, I'd definitely be be interested to know what, what was observed discovered in those types of yearly review, the annual review, I think that would be of importance. And also, knowing, if there are any, I know that there was a the business that sought a expansion, a permit for expansion back in 2019 which was denied or correct through
the chair to Commissioner Harrison. That was in 2023 they were permitted. They were given the permitted, the permit for the concrete crushing in 2019 from what I have, and then in 2023 they put in for a permit to expand.
So last year they put it in a permit to expand that was denied. Yes, right, okay, right. And I presume that is, is that an aspect of this that's caught up that is currently in litigation with is that something that or or the chair I
do not have?
Okay, just question. So the the, what I'm I guess the question that I have is is, are they seeking additional permits, and are they any timing issues in terms of this decision? Because it sounds like tonight you weren't here to you provided a recommendation, but there was no action that was being sought tonight on this based on your recommendation. So I'm wondering, are there any timing, anything that might sort of be, sort of have a timing parameter or in terms of making a decision before any changes, or any sought sort of expansion or approvals that might be coming up
through the chair. I don't know of any approvals or permits that are in the works right now. Specifically, that's not to say that there aren't. So I just, I do not know, I, as I mentioned, that there has been some expansion of land ownership. And with to remember, it's not just the one business land that we're that we are looking at, but there is the sooner that we move forward with this, the it is definitely something that the community has requested, and that we are looking to, and that I know that the community has requested, that council president pro tem has definitely been looking for us to do just to get this moving through. And yes, I we do have a recommendation prepared. We have gone through the planning criteria set forth in our zoning code and found that this meets all of all of the criteria in the zoning code. I do have some of the most relevant ones if the commission is interested in hearing, I have the top three ones that this meets before me. I And I believe that Director Todd has sent you my actual written recommendation. Oh, okay, yeah, I'm right. Okay,
thank you. Thank you, and I'll be my questions are related to when we're being asked to take action, and we have a recommendation that being provided tonight. However, it was stated beginning of the meeting that you didn't come with the recommendation intended or action intended. I just wanted is that
through the Chair, I meant that there was no request for same day action. There was no request for, yeah, there was no waiver of the like you would that the commission would have to do a motion for the waiver for same day action, correct? That's what I meant. That there was, there was no prior indication that there would be same day action today.
Correct? Okay, thank you. And but we heard from a business, another business, a different business, that is within the vicinity, that asked for time to make the consideration. So that's why I'm asking a question about, you know, if there were additional time, what would be the timeline on
Director Todd. Go right ahead. Thank
you, Madam Chair. Ultimately, for you, Madam Chair, to Commissioner Harrison, ultimately, it's, you know, up to the particular interest and direction of the commission. We would be prepared to come back at the very next meeting, which would be on the 19th, I think, unless, based upon what we've heard thus far, I think there are some of the questions that have been raised, we would be able to get answers by that time. If there are other concerns or questions that commission have has this evening that you would like us to address that could affect that timeline, but I think that we would be able to look into the issue that was raised by that particular business and address their concerns, and again, anything else that the commission would like us to look into, again, some of the items raised by Commissioner Lewis in specific. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Director Todd,
thank you so much, and I'm going to switch on over to Commissioner Bennett, who's been very patient.
Thank you, ma'am, Vice Chair. Want to echo fellow commissioners, and I support the down zoning. And anything to expedite enforcement is great. One avenue I thought about being from the construction industry, believe us. Miss Allen, her comment, she brought up silica. OSHA in 2016 established a rule on silica, silica exposure in the workplace, and it went to effect in 2017 and I believe we have one person who used to dump during his deployment, dump at that site, if he knows anyone that maybe works there, maybe someone puts a complaint in with MIOSHA and OSHA as well. That could be something that could be a very quick potential Avenue, just putting that out there, because the employees, if there is an employee who's concerned about going on to that site, working in that site, and if they are not using the correct mitigation, for general industry, whether it is shroud, whether it is water mitigation, there are a lot of different things that could be something to have some quick action if OSHA takes Over. My OSHA takes it seriously. So I would just voice that, because silica, it's, it's incredibly deadly, what it does to your lungs. And this is, yeah, it's just, it's very concerning as a citizen, and knowing fellow citizens are dealing with this on a daily basis, from young to old, so that's pretty much it for me. It's just mentioning that someone knows someone that works there and they can make a call that might be something to explore as well.
Thank you. Thank
you very much, Commissioner and Yes, Commissioner Russell,
thank you, Madam Chair. I
um, this is, is it is not really related to just this, but for for the staff, what would it take for us to have access to the records for sorry for this was for the staff. What would it take for us to have access to an individual parcel or address that we could pull up any violations?
I'll yeah,
go right ahead. Director Todd, take your time,
certainly to the extent that, and again, through you, madam chair to Commissioner Russell, certainly to the extent that commissioners may want to review some of the items that we've researched or some of the other things that we could look at, we could provide that to you probably more safely, you know, in the office, I think we would want to check with BC and law department to make sure that there wouldn't be any issues bringing that to bear in the public setting, again, particularly if that might happen to be a site where there is, you know, litigation taking place. So that's the only caveat, but I think the answer certainly is yes, we could provide that under certain circumstances. If commissioners would like to view it, we can certainly also look to check with law department and with BC to see if there is information that we could most readily provide publicly, that anyone would be able to look at.
Yeah, like, if there was a template of you guys, could just pull it up and, you know, and it blocks out anything that's not accessible for the public, and then that way we could have it, because it seems like it's an ongoing, you know, theme, the I'm
sorry, through the chair to Commissioner Russell, there is actually a site that you can look up flight violations for the city.
So I don't
I believe you can just look up Detroit, D, A, H, online search. But I can put the city's website and just type it in, right? Okay, yes, okay, that makes more sense. But yes, through the city's website, you can go to the dah site. You can look it up by address or parcel number or owner. I use this regularly when researching a site, as we're starting rezonings, and I can tell you, I had to stop looking at the violations for the majority, not just for the concrete Crusher. In the vicinity of of these sites, there are some really good actors and good neighbors, but there were many that weren't. And I it took too much of my time, and it was a rabbit hole I couldn't keep going down.
So so on this site, and thank you for that the it's blight, or would it then say if there was like a violation of, of of not having a cover on the top of a truck, or would it? Would it? Would those kind of violations be listed on that site as well
through the chair to Commissioner Russell, because I had, I stopped looking because of the numerous violations on all of these sites, and not pointing out one site. I don't know exactly which violations were on there. I don't know if those would go to the property owner or to the specific trucks, because there's privately owned trucks in and out of those sites as well. So I'm not sure I but I do know that the covers are required, and I I do know I witnessed many things on site visits as well, because I spent a lot. I spent some time over there prior to this hearing,
I can tell in this one packet from Schoolcraft Improvement Association, they show some pictures of some trucks that are uncovered and then some mounds. But I mean, you know, this is zoning, so I don't want to get in that bailiwick, but it seems like when you guys come before us, you guys should have access to not only the Blight records, but the permitting violation records. And I don't know if there, that's one in the same you know, through
the chair, there isn't. There is a good deal of that that is available. Um, if you recall when we were doing rezoning for a marijuana facility and they had had permitting issues, they were operating without a permit, we were able to bring that information before the commission. That is, that's where we found that information. We did confirm that prior to bringing it to the commission. We confirmed it with BC that it was a correct ticket, not something on there in air, since it is, you know, not an official thing. But, you know, we, we were, that's the same site that we're able to use
so well, I think the other department should be able to give you official stuff. Oh,
great, yes, through the chair, and they absolutely did. And even with some of these, I spent some time up with BC looking at some of these issues as well.
Okay, well, just two more things. One is, and I don't know if you guys can find this out, but we, I wouldn't think that we as a city would want to patronize anything from a company that was not performing as we wish. So you know, if there's a any is is the city buying some concrete, or is the state buying some concrete, or the federal government buying some concrete, or do we have any projects that are using that facility? Could and if so, could we stop purchasing from them? And I don't know if there's a list like that. I
i Through the Chair. I don't know exactly what we as a city use them for, but, but I do know that one of the main needs comes from all the demolition going on here in the city, right? So as we're demolishing, we need that concrete and materials crushed. It's a byproduct of that as the more we're demolishing, which is increasing,
maybe we could find another vendor, if that's the vendor, and I don't know if we're using them at all. Maybe we're not, but I mean, maybe we could attempt to find out if we are and if we are. Maybe we could stop using Yes,
through the through the chair again, when you're dealing with private contracting demolition companies, that's also
and then, you know, we always the city put stipulations on a lot of contracting, and maybe this would be one where we could and then The last thing, Madam Chair, if it was this body's prerogative to I would be in favor of same day action or waiving same day action. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Commissioner Russell. Do we have any other comments from fellow commissioners. All right, just a few comments. I think we've gone over a lot today, and just to remind everybody in the room, the purview of this particular governmental body is strictly zoning some of these other issues that we're highly concerned about, we can make recommendations for staff to bring to council and also other city departments to look into and certainly with whatever action we take, they've heard our comments to take with it. And judging from who we've heard from here, it does appear that several commissioners would be potentially in favor of this down zoning, and one maybe in favor of waiving same day action. So at this time, I'll take any motions that anybody would like to give Yes. Commissioner Lewis,
I would like to say this, I am in favor of the down zoning I do, as my fellow Commissioner indicated, I would like to give some consideration to the transportation company that is here to they requested more time. I'm not certain what the time was requested for, in terms of what they would bring back to this body or the community. And given that the down zoning does not resolve the immediate issue, if we down zone today, take the immediate action to down zone today, it does not put the concrete company out of business. So if the if, in my mind, if the transportation company wants to come back to this body and the community with something, I would be in favor of giving the transportation company that time so that they can be heard by this body, miss, and that's, that's Thank you, Madam Chair,
yeah. You know I would, I would support that. In fact, I mean saying that this could come back as early as our next meeting for us to take action on, but providing the time within that time, I'm wondering, had you had the opportunity to meet with the transportation company, or would this be the initial conversation discussion
through the chair to commissioners Lewis and Harrison, both CPC staff and President Pro Tem Tate staff have discussed with the L and D transport as well as the owner of the property there, and discuss the issues that they have. Um, and I do not, I'm not going to go further into those issues, but I it in in their best, yep,
but so so it sounds like they've been given advanced notification over several months, and discussions have been had so that they understand what this would mean is that, yes,
our first contact with them was on july 25 at our public hearing, and before that, through the letter, we have had multiple interactions with them, in person, through email, I spoke to them two days ago or yesterday over the phone as Pro Temp Tate staff spoke to them in person yesterday, and we've given them our advisement of their best course of action.
Thank you, Director time. Anything to add? Yes?
Thank you, Madam Chair, to be direct. More direct, I guess. I don't think that it will make a difference, in light of what this way to sharing. However, with that being said, given that the commission is not the final stop, certainly, if you would like to direct staff to continue to work with them to look further at the matter, while we are preparing to convey a recommendation to city council again, should this honorable body act, we can certainly take advantage of that time to continue to work with that particular actor. But again, without belying what Miss Webb is speaking to, I don't think it will make a difference.
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Director Todd, are you all set? No,
yes, yes. I just want to say, appreciate the response from from staff,
all right. And Commissioner Russell,
I was just going to say, you know, I think everybody wants it to go forward, and I don't think anything coming back is going to change that down zoning, and then, you know, over time, I've seen that when we act, there's city council and then there's legal. So a lot of times when we're, if we put something forward, we're, we're sending a message in response to a big public outcry, and that we push it down the road so that we let the other agencies act on it. And if we can do that, especially if we know whatever comes back that the down zoning is the right thing to do, the sooner we do it, the better, in my opinion.
Would you like to make a motion? What is that motion?
And please correct me staff, if I do this wrong, I would like to waive same day motion for this particular item, same
day action,
action, yes, thank you. Yep,
thank you. Do we have a second to waive same day action requirements for this agenda item? Second, all right, support from Mr. Esparza will go with and for that motion. May we have a roll call please?
You certainly may, Madam Chair,
my apologies. All right,
Commissioner Bennett the board, and Commissioner Esparza or Commissioner Harrison support,
Commissioner Lewis support, Commissioner Markowitz support, Commissioner Russell support.
Commissioner Smith is departed, and Commissioner udavi
support.
All right, the motion passes. We've waived a same day action requirements. At this time we will entertain a motion on this item.
Commissioner Bennett, I
move to approve the down zoning as proposed to m2
that suffices for me. Do we have a second okay? Support from Commissioner Russell and Yes, Commissioner Harrison, Madam
Chair, I just like to express or um, uh, sort of adopt the recommendation that Director Todd provided to continue working with the transportation company to understand your issue as it, as it, as it progresses forward.
Thank you very much. Commissioner Lewis
I too would also like to add, as Director Todd indicated that the health and well being of the community would also be addressed in some way.
Yes, and just adding to that, as I iterated at the beginning of this discussion, I'd really like staff to get in touch with B seed as well as Ted on these items as soon as possible, because this community needs some some action immediately, yesterday, a decade ago. So any other comments before we do a roll call on this item? All right, Director Todd,
certainly Madam Chair, and we will piece together the full motion.
I'm happy to do it, if that is helpful
and that Well, I guess technically we take we got parts of we got the components of the motion, but not sure that we actually got a second support.
There we go. Just, you know, double checking that support and at this time, roll call please, all right.
Commissioner Bennett, and again, Commissioner Daniels is excused. Commissioner Esparza support, Commissioner Harrison support,
Commissioner Lewis support, Commissioner Markowitz support, Commissioner Russell support,
again, Commissioner Smith has departed, and Commissioner UW support,
all right, the motion is passed for the down zoning from m4 and m3 to m2 I want to thank everybody for coming out and providing public comments. Thank you, and we hope to help you know, certainly through the rezoning, but we're really going to push to have departments get on this to the fullest extent that we can. And I thank you for for being engaged at this time, I do want to call a five minute recess, and we will return to the call of the chair. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
This different spirit.
Our address is on there from her, Okay,
let me ask you what
Okay, let me ask you a question and we get ready
to go home. Thank
you.
Is, yes,
we've seen that out, and it seems like it's going to People of Color. Question, Do
