The Power of the Collective for Systems Change - Anne Marie Burgoyne

7:39AM Jun 21, 2023

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Anne Marie Burgoyne

Keywords:

people

work

question

nonprofits

collective

years

philanthropy

emerson

anne marie

frictionless

thought

portfolio

grant

possibility

love

impact

curated

team

community

conversation

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Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky. And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Becky, we get to be the rabid fans today.

Okay, can I take everybody back to before we started, We Are For Good. And John asked me this really profound question one day and he was like, What is your goal? What is your goal here and I remember looking at you, John and saying, my goal is like just to sit at the feet of a stranger and hear their story. And today, we get to sit at the feet of like one of the most badass women storytellers of all time. I mean, we are delighted to welcome Anne Marie Burgoyne. She is the managing director of philanthropy at Emerson Collective. And let me just tell you what Anne Marie does, she leads the philanthropic investment process in a wide array of sectors including education, immigration, social justice, and the environment. And she also works with the diverse team in Emerson to assure that partner organizations can access their capacity building there amplification and advocacy support. And so as a woman who has served on more than 30 boards, she's been in nonprofit Ed, she's been in the, in the trenches, just like all of us, y'all. She has been in early childhood disabilities to climate change and building emerging leaders. And when our friend Abby Fay like said, You gotta know Anne Marie, we jumped at the chance. And we are just so humbled to get to know you. So today, we're going to be talking about the power of the collective for systems change. You know, our final core value that We Are For Good is community is everything. And we're bringing in just a wholehearted human who is going to walk us through how they've already done that. So Anne Marie, Mom, just incredible human being get into our house, we're so excited that you're here

I am, I am honored to be here. And I have to say for a moment when you said rabid fans, I thought you said rabid fans, and we had a number of pet rabbits children. And so I thought, Oh, they're rabbit fans too. But I am glad to be here. I'm very, very glad to talk about the power of community, which I believe in very deeply. And I also think I love your your belief that we're in the midst of a possibility and a moving amplification of an uprising, I really do believe that people that know that change is possible. And that change that is about all of us being better seen and understood and represented as possible. I really believe it is about believing that change begins to occur. So I'm very excited by that.

I mean, she's already reflecting our other values back to us that it's not about the giving. It's about the belief. We believe that believers are so much more powerful than donors because they're bringing much more to the table and I'm we agree with you we think we are standing in the possibility of a moment of the greatest radical shift that we could see across sectors for good but and just so you know, I'm a huge rabbit fan. And if you've not read Watership Down you and be a rabid fan as well. So, before we get into all of this, like, we just want to get to know you and Marie, you as a human being like, tell us where you grew up. Tell us what kind of led you to this work for justice and equalization and amplification? Let us know little Anne Marie.

Oh gosh, little Anne Marie. So I grew up in Pennsylvania, half of my life in the eastern side of Pennsylvania in the suburbs of Philadelphia, half in the western side of Pennsylvania, the suburbs of Pittsburgh. And then I went to college in Philly. So I kind of worked my way across the state. I think This has always been true of me, I was very outspoken, and I was also very polite and a rule follower. And so was always trying to find that path. And I think it was in part because I was the oldest daughter in a pretty conservative family. I came from a Catholic background. And so there really was a belief that there were things you did that were right and wrong. I came from a very loving family, but but my dad struggled to keep a job for a long time. And so that's why we moved. That's why we made certain choices we did as a family. And so I think where my work comes from, as a sense that like, empathy is the engine that creates possibility, I think, like it isn't finding empathy that you understand. And there's an understanding that you find solutions. And I also think there's a part where you recognize at least this is how I think about it. Everyone comes from a place that is both complicated and has passed and has like sort of hope. And, but we all get mixed up sometimes in what is complicated, because that is I think, what holds us back. And so finding a place without having to know what that is like, I also think there's a feeling we have sometimes like isn't understanding people's stories that we can be empathetic. And my belief is that you just have to know that there's a story there. And that's where your empathy comes from. Because, like, I think what's interesting is as a funder, and I have been blessed to be in the funding community now for almost 20 years, there's lots of questions that I'll ask you about your mission about your work, better impact, better data. But I won't necessarily ask you about your life that doesn't touch your work, because I also want to respect that there are places you want to need to hold dear. And if you share those with me, I am I am honored. I once I know there's things I'll ask you about your kids, I'll ask you about those things. But I won't unless you let me into that place. But I will know that it has affected you. And that it is why you are driven to do what you do. And it's almost that like empathy is through unknown belief that I think can really make that place where you allow kindness to happen. But what I believe is, at some point, you don't need to know everyone's entire history, they do not need to unburden themselves to you for you to have empathy and kindness toward them. And it is in us holding that belief that each of us has something they are wrestling down, but also comes to their work with really, really powerful, good, strong intent. If we can find each other and we can like lock arms together, that's where problem solving comes from that sense of empathy and kindness and belief, man,

I mean, we're such kindred spirits with the way that you've led into this conversation and honestly just made us feel as people to just in your warmth in the way that you approach your work. So I know that the power of the collective is really vital to y'all. And I think when I read about your work, it just again reminds me of like, this is how we do this. It's not showing up thinking that any one person is the answer. It's the power of how do we do this in lockstep and lock arms together? So I want to give you space to tell a little bit about the history of Emerson because, you know, we've heard a little bit of the story, but what inspired, you know, Loreen to begin this work, and what does it look like now,

it's so interesting. So to give you a frame, I was the eighth person at Emerson Collective, and now the collective has over 300 people. So it has grown in, obviously, size, but in strength and in complexity and impossibility over time, too. And one of the things I loved about joining the collective, and I had been at Draper Richards Kaplan for quite a long time and had really loved the philanthropic possibilities there. But one of the things I appreciated when I went to Emerson was I said to Laureen, I don't think the money always has to be the answer, or the first thing. And one of the things I appreciated was, she knew she wanted to create an organization that would take on social change. She had been doing quiet philanthropy for a long time. But it wasn't the second or third person she hired that was focused on philanthropy, they were focused on policy and politics or convening, or investing are other tools of social change. And so when I joined, what was really interesting was it meant that the dollar wasn't always the first solution. It wasn't we have something we call cog beyond the grant. And so our question really is we know we need to give you a grant. It's part of what we do philanthropically. We want to honor your time, we want to honor your possibilities. But what we're really trying to figure out is given what Emerson has connectivity to or is able to provide, what will be useful to you, and how do we provide that in a way that has optionality so you don't feel pressured? You don't feel like you're using your time or your scarce resources in a way that later you feel frustrated by? But at the same time, if you leave an experience or an opportunity and you think I They have grown as a leader or my team is stronger, or my understanding of my possibility of my work has been improved. That's what we're trying to seek out. And that's why we call it beyond the grant. And so what I appreciated for Laureen was she not only thought about beyond the grant in that philanthropic context, which is where I think about it day to day, but she thought about it, if we have this broader possibility for social change, we're really very ring fenced if we were only a foundation in what tasks we could take on, I could say that, but by being in a position to have a team that focuses on marketing, and communications, and storytelling and branding, and another that is very, very strong and capable at convening, another that's able to focus on advocacy and not feel like they have limitations around that. We have a team that focuses on fellowships, which allows us to not only look at the unit of change as an organization, but the unit of change as an individual. We have a technology team, which has been very interesting, because over time, there really is a divide in our society around those who have access to tech and non tech. And I think we think about that in terms of individuals and communities. I think we think about it less in terms of institutions, because if you look at nonprofits, the technology they have access to and there's there's actually with a cost and a knowledge issue involved in that is much more limited. And so the divides become much bigger between the institutions that are serving the people and communities that are also really disconnected from technology, and the rest of the like the society that's sitting out there. And so what's been great about our tech team is they bring sets of expertise, how to build a strong CRM, how to access various datasets that if you lay them on top of your existing datasets, you would be more knowledgeable about who you might serve, or how you might serve them better, more fundamental pieces around, we just had we did a webinar last week and over 170 people came to a webinar on AI and how AI will affect the nonprofit sector. We have an AI Day coming up where a number of nonprofits are going to get to sit down with AI experts for Dan of a hackathon to figure out how to understand AI as an existential threat, but equally importantly, how to use AI as a tool to do their work more effectively. So the tech piece has been very interesting. So I think for us, we're really asking that narrow question, what's beyond the ground? And then as an institution and organization, we're asking the question, what is the possibility when a number of different tools can be leveraged concurrently? Around what are really thorny, hard, broken systems and education and immigration? In environmental justice and climate justice? That's, that's really where we spend our days.

I mean, John, are you feeling like Emory just succinctly rolled up all of our 2023 trends into fat pants or that we spread out over a three month period I heard marketing's mission, I heard humanize the digital experience. I heard community is core, I heard lock arms for impact. I mean, there's so much that can be realized when you this is a very technical term, Emery in our community, try stuff, which is our phrase for innovation, you know, in really leaning into thinking about your work differently, and thinking about how you curate the voices, and the ideas, because we know because we've worked in nonprofit and I say we as a collective, here We Are For Good, you know that the solutions to the most systemic problems reside in the communities where they are the people who are experiencing them. So it demands cognitive diversity in these areas. And I would like to just double click with you a little bit on your impact, because I'm looking at the areas in which you're serving. And these are very heady, very big topics. We're talking about climate, we're talking about racial justice, we're talking about gun safety. And there's just so much and so I wanted to talk about, you know, what have you guys been focusing on and talk about what your impact has looked like today?

It's interesting. And as I unpack this response, I will probably move between our philanthropic portfolio and Emerson Collective which which is, which is kind of logical and appropriate. When I think about our education work, and the fulcrum there is around high schools. And so I think one of the things we've always believed is that young people who've been failed by their education system, there is a temptation to believe that by the time they get to high school, if they haven't gathered a set of literacy and numeracy skills, it may well be too late for them. And that's been a place we've really pushed back many, many years ago. It's their 25th anniversary so about 25 years ago, Loreen started college track, which is an organization that supports young people to get to and through high school and college, and we have locations in the Bay Area DC, New Orleans. Ian's, Colorado. But that organization has brought 1000s of young people through that program. And I think our realization has been that in that in many ways, our public systems don't have infrastructure that by providing that infrastructure enables young people who have historically not been seen as strong or capable as being astonishingly strong and capable, and simply not in a situation that allowed them to thrive. And and so then that rolled us over time and to our execu work, which is our high school redesign work. We have a number of high schools across the US that are part of that program, plus DC public schools, New York public schools, schools and Tulsa schools in Rhode Island. So that set of schools and districts that have made the choice to relook at the design of high school and make it less about time and seats and more about learning skills, and having experiences and really learning how to problem solve using data using design knowledge in ways that, that actually allow students to do just fine on standardized tests, but equally importantly, help them to understand the world they're navigating, and whether they choose to go to college, whether they choose other choices, to give them that sense of both confidence and skill to move forward in their lives. And it's been exciting to watch this whole districts come to to XQ and say we want to engage here. It's also encouraged us to look at programs like college track that are also an after school spaces brotherhood sister saw in New York thread in Baltimore. So that's what that portfolio has looked like over time. And I think it's also then created conversations at universities, which has been exciting that asks, How do we relook at how we bring students from high school to college? What skills are we actually seeking? What does it mean to be ready for college? What does it mean to be a leader when you come into a college campus environment, so lots of impact there, which is as much about the sort of numeric how a model grows, and then how the structures and systems around that opportunity respond differently. When I look at our work around environment and climate, and the Justice aspects of that, and I will say, this, in particular is a really big movement time it is it is fair to say that there is no one reason why there is so much federal funding now available for infrastructure creation. But I will say it's very powerful, the leaders that were able to voice the importance of much of that money, coming back into communities that have historically not gotten infrastructure dollars. And I do think that when I look at leaders in our environmental justice portfolio, Katherine flowers, for example, their voices, and in bringing people to community to see what it looks like to live in a community that doesn't actually have adequate sanitation systems, and to bring that to Washington, DC, and to have a conversation about what it means to in the same way, there's disproportionate impacts of climate change. What does it mean to have disproportionate allocation of resources to communities that have never gotten those kinds of resources before and how those voices make a difference. And it's been exciting then to watch some of those portfolios of work, pivot, because the skills to advocate for opportunity are different than the skills to receive resources and to bring those resources into the community and to use them. And so there's a whole interesting pivot that's happening in those portfolios, to answer a new set of questions, to sometimes find new and different leaders and organizations, and then also to help organizations that have historically been doing work to also pivot. And there's nothing more frustrating than being a person who led the charge for one thing, and then is that charge has success to be told? Well, you were part of the last chapter. So that's been another piece of the work is how do you then pull people along into that next chapter?

I mean, Anne Marie, I just when we were researching, you know, we ran across this quote, that I just feel like I need to lift because you're saying this, and it's like, just vibing within the values that y'all embody. But this was a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, that's in one soul in your soul. There are resources for the world. I mean, how beautiful of just like this abundance idea, and just the power of the individuals as part of the collective too. And so I want to give you light, because I mean, what you're sharing shows that y'all are really great at asking questions, the bigger right questions and being curious, but what are those mindsets because a lot of people listening are wanting to figure out, what are the mindsets that we need to cultivate to have this type of impact, you know, to get to this type of solution?

I appreciate that question. I mean, I will I will start by saying one of the things I really appreciate about Levine bringing Ralph Waldo Emerson into the zeitgeist of Emerson Collective, is his writing on both self reliance and on nature is really quite profound. And if you ever go to a website that has quotes ROFO Emerson has just buckets of excellent quotes that are as relevant today as they were when he penned them. And I really appreciate that

he even has a book called nature. It's probably 200 years old or something at this point, check it out. It is yes. And it's not literal. In every sense. It's so many metaphors. So yes, keep going.

I just think if he were someone that walked into the present, he, there are things that would probably confuse and surprise him, but I think he could survive and thrive. And we could learn from him. That would be very exciting. But to answer your question, John, I think we have really thought a lot about a couple of frames. I mean, one is really seeking out leaders who are proximate to the work they do. And I want to highlight proximity, presents itself in many different ways that can be about where you came from. And, and what I've learned over the time is different people describe came from in different ways, it could be like where you grew up, it could be where you visited your grandma in the summer, it could be where you went to college, it could be that very first job you have. So I also want to say proximity is very much different for different people. But we look for people who when we say like, why do you do this work? And it seems like such a kind of like, silly question, it usually goes back to something deeply personal, which is true for many people, but not for all. And we really are trying to find the people that they say like this grounds me because and not just the leader, but the team, the board, we asked really do ask questions to understand who's surrounding the work. I think another thing that we've tried to bring is a belief. And this is it's a very simple mechanism, we primarily make general operating grants that are multiple years. And we do that because our belief is that we want to support what you're doing, we don't want to come and say, Well, we really liked your work in Denver, or we really like your work with seniors, we pretty much just believe the most important thing we can do is value your work the way you've conceived of it. And so if we come to a place where we feel like this is not a fit, like, we'd rather say to you, this is not a fit than Hey, this is not a fit. But if you could tuck yourself into this smaller box, that would be a fit. And so my gosh, I feel hard to Zane. Part of that really is about this piece around building community by bringing together leaders and groups of leaders who all then have started the work and are doing the work because that's where they want to be. And that's what we're supporting. I'll also share a story that was I also think we bring a lot of optimism to the work. And when we go back to this piece we talked about earlier about belief. And we gathered a group last year or last week of folks who are independent bookstores, and we're exploring the question of what would it look like if independent bookstores could become hybrid in their structure so that they could have a nonprofit which would then allow them to bring in dollars for the incredibly strong community work and program work that they historically do at a at a financial loss. And I was talking to one of the bookstore leaders at the end, and I made a comment like, oh my gosh, you all love each other so much. I'm so glad you got to meet each other by coming together. And what she said was, Oh, I've known these people for years. However, I see them differently now. Because I used to see when I would come together in a community of booksellers. We basically saw ourselves as people who ran failed businesses. And we all had this shared belief that the businesses we ran were important. And what you've now told us is that we are the leaders of successful community creation engines. And by seeing myself differently, and by seeing this group of peers differently. It's it's reengaged, the possibility of my work and my work with these people. So what you're seeing is not like meeting people for the first time. It's seeing myself and everyone else differently for the first time. And I was really struck by that. And I will say it's not the first time that's happened. So for example, in two different flavors like last year, we did a grant round that we called Climate special grant round, because we're not super creative. Sometimes it naming things by clarity is kind of what that grant exactly. I mean, everybody knew what it was about. So we've reached out to just organizations in the portfolio and said, climate is everywhere. And climate is not only our existential threat, climate is our real threat. So we're not saying please create a mission creep project. But if you've all been sitting around as a team and asking yourself, if we had a little bit of money, and we're watching this climate thing, this is what we would do. Tell us what that is. We'll give you money for it. And it's restricted grant, admittedly, we'll pick 20 organizations and we'll gather you together in a cohort for a couple years explore what it would mean to be Climate Leaders, coming from a place of non historically non climate focused work. And we brought that group of people together And it was really, it was funny because somebody who was fairly new to the team said, Do you think we should, like, you know, encourage people to work together or do something to make that happen. And my response was, now that'll happen by itself. And it does. Because when when, when people find that shared possibility, they actually find it all by themselves. And granted, we'll do things like curate lunch tables, or curate tables to be in conversation about something, because we have theories that if people find each other, that energy would, would, would spark. And then a third example, we also have a group that focuses on urban gardens, that focus on high school youth. And we have about 12 or 15 of them around the US. And we brought them together for gathering. And sometimes we offer this thing, again, not super creative, called the travel grant program. Which means if you are in a cohort, during the time of the cohort, you can travel to the locations of other people's work in the cohorts, you can see it because we believe that actually like you can show people pictures of gardens and bookstores all day long. But if you're really a bookseller, you don't get the book. So you don't get the bookstore till you walk around in the bookstore. And if you're a garden person, that's like a couple of acres of land, the only way to experience that is to walk the acreage with the other people. And so a number of folks recently, we have three of those urban gardens that are in New York. And so people from Chicago and San Francisco, a bunch of people all went to New York together and they visited the three New York gardens together. And I think it was transformative. And and again, goes back to that piece where it isn't seeing your work through the possibility of something larger, it really allows you to see the power of your work in a much more narrow way. And that you're that you're part of, you know, you go back to movements, I really think a lot of this these moves. This is like that, particularly thing as a libertarian movement around food and around food access and around us being able to be much more sustainable in the place where we are. That's pretty powerful.

I want to give you a compliment here. Because you're you're talking and I'm watching as you're talking about this network in this intersection and how just the tentacles of the network are going out. And they just ripple Ripple ripple as people find their people. And as they feel seen. I think that, you know, it absolutely shows me that Emerson Collective despite like, perhaps this celebrity, you know, around Lorraine's name or what people think you are, you have built this sense of empowerment, and you have released control in the most beautiful way. And I love that you've held really tight to your values and what you know of yourself. And of you know what you know, of the change you want to see, but the way that you have gathered, and the way that you have empowered, and I tell you as a recovering major gift officer, thank you, for those multi level and multi year grants, because those allow us to have some runway, but it feels like you're reimagining the possibility of how we gather how we impact how we flex our philanthropy. And the fact that you put mindsets all back to somebody being seen, seen for who they are, what they can bring, is a really beautiful thing. And I think this is the way, to me, this is the way that we need to move forward in collective co building. And we do it in community, whether physically yes, we want that physical, because there's something different when you walk through the garden, and you can smell basil and you or the lavender or whatever it is, and you can actually be a part of it. But just the ability for people to come together and the things that they're passionate about in any way. And bringing those skill sets is incredibly powerful. So I just want to thank you for how beautifully you have built this because it is a model for I think all of us about what is the potential and I and I think I want to talk to you about this frictionless philanthropy that you all have coined, because we've done a big push this year into reimagining the funders mindset and I'm like you all haven't reimagined it. You reimagined it years ago. Now you're living it out. And I want to go deeper into what you've discovered here because Emerson Collective just embrace this beautiful and evolved partnership model that you call frictionless philanthropy, and its deepening impact and relationship with your grantees. Talk to us about this model, and talk about how you've seen it benefit your partners in your mission, as you sort of empowered these mindsets of belonging and feeling seen. Would love to hear your thoughts on it.

No, thank you for that. And so the thought around Flix, frictionless philanthropy was we try to do pretty thoughtful diligence when we bring a new organization into the portfolio. And so then our feeling wise if we've done that, and we really want to be in conversation, and we're not naive enough to know that money in a conversation doesn't always is changed the conversation, then there have to be times in the relationship that leave open the possibility for building greater trust and just being in conversation. And so there's a set of opportunities that we offer. And I'll explain a little bit how we offer them. But the feeling was that they needed to not be about being in conversation and choosing, they needed to be about offering and folks choosing to opt in or not. And that's where the frictionless philanthropy comes in. If you're in a general operating grant with us, a multi year general operating grant with us, then during that time, we offer you things, and you can choose to take them or not take them and they're all cost free. So for example, we have a curated menu of opportunities, management training, access to legal counsel, storytelling, an op ed writing, access to various software and hardware, governance, coaching, and you can choose to use all of them, or none of them, most of them are with external vendors, and you send us the receipt and we send you dollars for it. And that was our way of really saying like this is interesting to you. And and our biggest learning is we need to do a good job of making sure people know what's available, know, they can ask questions about it, without them having to use it, making sure that if they choose to use it, they use it in a way that is not time consuming and doesn't in some way, make someone feel frustrated rather than joyful. So that's a piece of it. And then there's a piece where we have an internally curated menu, coaching support from an accountant. And the frictionless philanthropy helps there too. Because for the team of people who work on our team, by remembering that they're in a position to be able to offer those things at any time, it keeps that fresh and possible. And so it's it's a good reminder, not only for the grantee partner, this is frictionless, this is always available for people on our team to also be in that same mindset. And then the other pieces are even a bigger curation set, we provide eight or nine trainings a year with folks that focus on governance or fun development, or how to grow your impact. And we really try to thoughtfully curate the list of who's invited to those, we try to make it across our portfolio. So to us, it would be a fail, if you didn't look across that room and realize there's people here who focus on education, Immigrant Justice, climate justice, and environmental justice, health equity, like you who you want to look around and say, I don't know very many of these people, because this is actually not my usual group. This is a group with breath, and I'm going to meet new people, and I'm going to understand my work differently as a result. And then that's a curated opportunity to, and that's surprisingly, if you come to those, and I'm really proud of this, our convening team is so good. People have told us from the second they arrived on the second day leave, they feel so welcomed, the food is beautiful, the location is wonderful. The kindness is your show, those things really do matter. And so that's what frictionless philanthropy is, is trying to have these various sets of opportunities that are curated in different ways that you feel comfortable and excited to explore. And that then in the end really should be of great benefit and of no cost, emotional time. Financial for sure.

I mean, I just love this wraparound and the evolved way that y'all do that. I mean, it's all about capacity, sustainability relationships, kind of all those things converging in, you know, we talk, we've curated some conversations around funders, and we just believe that just as fast as the nonprofit space, which is the space Becky and I came out of for the last 20 years is changing so rapidly. The funder in the mindsets that it takes to be a funder in this moment has to evolve to and I know we're starting to, you know, run out of time. But I want to hear just quickly, what are your thoughts you work with a lot of funders through your work? What are some ways that funders could evolve and modernize their work to you know, move faster with nonprofits and grow bigger impact?

So I talked to folks about this a lot. And I think there's actually many ways that could happen. I mean, I think if everybody at least explored what it would mean, to provide general operating support, I think that would really be very helpful. Thank

you,

I think, yeah, I think asking the question, if you are able to give a two year grant in this cycle, can you do a three year grant in the next like, even elongation matters, fewer transaction costs, just more will less stress because of more of a sense of what the front roadway looks like. I think that could be a piece when when people say to our team and one thing I want to highlight here is when you do your work anonymously, and you do it with the level of care with which we do it, you end up having a team of people who are very humble and to work very hard, because it seamless experiences typically are because someone is watching and I don't mean that in a weird way. I mean that in a kindness way. Someone is really asked Is everyone here, having an experience that is a good one. And you know, we'll have meetings after this will be so silly, but I'll use this as an example. We'll have meetings after convenings, and asked what could have gone better. And so like one of the things now we do is like, we've made a choice that our bathrooms during convenings are accessible to whomever needs to use them. Because our realization was some lines were bigger than other lines. And that was one of those moments where we felt like this is not making for a good experience. And this is something entirely in our control to make better. And so we spend a lot of time on the experience. So another thing they'll often say to people is they'll say, we should just do what Emerson Collective does. And my response is, you should do what you would do best. So what are the things and it could come from different places? What are the things that for you, your team, your leader, your board? What assets do they have? What is their social connectivity? Where's their energy? Where's this superpower of what they know? And understand, start there? Or Sure, you could take our curated list of offerings, but maybe ask the question, what are the people in our portfolio, most need desire and want maybe start there? And so I honestly think there's lots of places to have as a beachhead, We've convened a certain way, you may actually gather different people in different ways to different purposes, but you can make the experience an excellent one. And the beginning question is, what is the you know, begin with the end in mind. And so I will often hear folks explain, this isn't really how my donor thinks about it. Or I would need to justify this in this way. And so I often brainstorm with people a lot to around that, how I might frame this conversation, how I would describe how over the years, we believe that we have been helpful and impactful. And I recognize for some people that they really are trying to convince others. And then sometimes I'll also say to people, what do you really because in your power and your purview, and it might be more than you think, because that's another piece where I think folks realize how we choose to ask for or not ask for reporting, where, for example, one of the things we do is we have a call every year with every grantee partner, and we open it up to the entire collective as a way to create ally ship across the collective, and to allow people in the collective who might be in the finance department, or the HR department or the Markham team, or the tech team to understand better the mission based work with the people we work with. And you could do that you could absolutely enable the mission based work that you are really in a position to get to support to flourish in the bigger place. That is the ecosystem of your workplace. And maybe then things would happen that you don't even expect yet, because in learning and knowing different possibilities could emerge. I mean, it's been fun, like, over the years, our legal team at Emerson Collective has done some excellent pro bono work for folks in the portfolio, because they got exposed to them through these calls, and then said, we think we could help with this. And so part of it, John, I feel like is there are some structural things that are hard. I also think there are some easy things you could try. And then I think there's some places where in change happening, more change could happen to I just think

the way that you're approaching this Amory is that was so hopeful. That was so empowering. It was so caring, and and thread that I've noticed in everything that you've said is this care. And I want to connect that to what the output is on the nonprofit side. Because when you're working at the margins all the time, it's not just budgetary margins, it's time. It's energy. And the amount of burnout and compassion fatigue that we're seeing right now is at an epic level. And so when you have a funder, that thinks about how do I create ease, how do I create, moving to impact faster? I think the reporting piece is really, really interesting. Is is it is the way that we need to work and live. And I think you've given some excellent pro tips here about how to start but I feel the shift in the sector and even the way we're thinking and the conversation. So thank you so much for that. And you know that we believe storytelling is one of the most powerful ways that humans can connect and we're wondering if you have a story where philanthropy has intersected in your life in a powerful way that you might want to share with us today.

It's so interesting, I guess I guess this is what I would share. So I was a girl scout for many years. And I was a brownie and I was a junior and I was the cadet and I was a senior and a bluebird and I was a first class girl. I scout and I kind of did I did the whole thing. And as you ask the question, I've never really thought about this. I'm certain that was philanthropically supportive. I mean, I, I'm certain that it was, even though there's, of course, so many rich parts of that, that are also about volunteers, like my mom was a cookie, mom. But of course, all those people in my neighborhood who bought cookies from me, they were also, you know, engaged in the civic experience of supporting Girl Scouts. But it's interesting, because I feel like the residuals of me being a girl scout have stayed with me a lot. Like there's moments when I'll be cooking or camping, or creating something, I'm not a great Creator, but creating something moderately artistic. And now think the first time I was exposed to this was when I did a Girl Scout patch, where there's, there's women who at the time, were girls who I still spend time with. And I've been working on a photo project with my mom, and I look at these photos, and I think, oh my gosh, like, these are the girls that were in my Brownie troop, or these were the girls that I went camping with when I was in middle school. So I guess if I were to think about it, because it was both a long thread, it was a very civically engaged thread. It was a thread that was about self discovery. Like that's what I kind of in hindsight, think is so great about the Girl Scouts was they exposed me to all these things? Because I think they really wanted girls to become well rounded people. And then I'll finish by saying a number of years ago, before I pivoted into philanthropy, I had a time when I actually did a consulting project for the Girl Scouts for Girl Scouts national for about six months. And it was interesting, because the Girl Scouts were trying to figure out in some ways what their mission was. And that was both because she was being asked of them. And I think it was also because the Boy Scout formerly struggling and the scouts were trying to ask how are we different? Because they are and what do we bring with that into the future? And what was interesting was I was you know, on moderately recently minted MBA, and one of my questions was, okay, strategy is as much about what you do as what you don't do, what do you not. But in certain contexts, they serve young men in rural communities where there wasn't another troop, or a boy didn't want to be part of the Boy Scouts. They served young people in carceral facilities, they serve young people in schools, and not in schools and in churches. And I got to this kind of crazy point in this experience, where I said, I believe I have failed, because I believe you serve everywhere. And I am so proud of that, like, my business side, doesn't really know where to go with that. But my side that believes mission is important, is deeply touched by that. And so I had forgotten most of the stories I'm telling you until this very moment, but I'll see the Girl Scout because I think that they really, they deliver I think they still really deliver delivered for me.

I mean, what a beautiful way to tie up this conversation. And I even think of our mutual friend Abby Faye like of like, just the importance of this self discovery, the way the thing that connected us initially is like this thread that's been part of your life and as in your work now. So thank you for taking us back on like, I gotta get my girls and Girl Scouts, like you are the ambassador.

And I don't care what diet I'm on at the end February or March box of Tagalog, so she does also

the Tagalog, although in Minsk if you put them in the freezer Pro,

pro tip, okay, well, I mean, this is this is saddening is to ask our final question for you. But we like to end every episode with a one good thing. You know, you have such a wealth of experience with a mantra, or a life hack or just a piece of wisdom you'd share with us today,

I'm thinking about some of the conversations I have with my girls, I have two girls, a 16 year old and a 20 year old, so a smack dab in the middle of high school and a smack dab in the middle of college. And I think the thing I say pretty often is something in the frame. Have you have you asked enough questions? And and I say that because whether it is they're frustrated with somebody? Have you asked them questions? Do you really understand why it is they're saying what they're saying or thinking what they're thinking or doing what they're doing? Or whether they're struggling with something academic? And? And that's kind of a different question, but it's the same question because then asking questions is about admitting you don't understand, or actually digging down and figuring out what you do understand to know then what you don't understand that again, it comes back to have you asked enough questions. And then I think there's another piece you know, there are things that are like the unknown. There's also like the not known yet, like going to office hours and the faculty person is a lot about going in and starting a conversation. And if you're not sure how to start a conversation, you always start with question. Because then you're opening up to what that person wants to share, or what they know that you would like to know, too. So I guess for me, it's really been about question asking as a way of building rapport as a way of learning as a way of being humble. And then, of course, the reciprocal of that is being a gracious question responder, which means you have to be a good listener, because sometimes you don't actually hear a question, you know, it's like funny, like, when you watch, you know, that game show, and they'll say, phrase it as a question. Don't phrase it as a question, but it really still is a question, and you should have the grace to hear it. And hearing when you're asked a question to the shades of meaning and nuance of a question, like, make sure that the answer is the question they were asking, because that's the best way to honor a question is to really find the depth and the complexity of what someone wants to know, and to bring it to them. But I guess I'd say, that's been the journey, I'd say, no one

is surprised. The Amory brought it back to empathy, curiosity, love, hope, empowerment. So Emory, people are gonna want to get to know how to connect with you. They're gonna want to know more about Emerson Collective, tell us where you hang out online, or how they can connect with you all right now.

I mean, Emerson Collective has a website. I'm on Twitter, which I'm kind of mortified to admit. I'm in LinkedIn, and probably LinkedIn is the best way to find me I visit there the most. And I dare to give my email address I feel like I would that be like a very, very rookie move. But I, you know, that's out there, too. I do email everybody that emails me, I returned on my you know,

I just want to thank you, for your humanity, for your open heartedness, your open hands, your open mind, the way that you are architecting this beautiful world that we're all trying to navigate as, as someone that's just like us, just trying to do our part in our part of the world. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing. I hope everyone got as much out of this as I knew I would as I was sitting in Ann Marie's. Thank you. Thank you, my friend for all of this. I hope our paths cross many more times in the future. Thank

you very much. I appreciate it. And I enjoyed it. And I learned some things about myself, which is always a gift to

you.

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