But I also want to kind of go out in kind of two other ways this question. One thing that really is a common thread in the book, is that this culture around disciplining is often reflected within the kind of administrative process of the university. And so one way to kind of think about this is that one of the things that really emerges, and I think someone could write a whole separate book on this, is all the different rules for when and where you can hold a campus protest. And again, these are rules that really develop out of the 1960s so just about today. So a student today, if they are like, Listen, I have a organization, we want to raise an issue around this. And again, this could be across the political spectrum. They have to go through all these levels of approval to have a particular space and time for a protest, and you know you're gonna have a certain day, and there's only a certain space that's voted to it. And so this process inherently just mitigates any disruptive potential, right? Because it part of the value often, of protests in particular, is how it ends up being kind of organic and surprising, and oftentimes pulls people in ways, in surprising ways. But if you structure it and limit it in certain ways, it loses that potential. I also think, has these weird unintended consequences too. It was last year, you know, with especially, again, when we're thinking about protests in the news, and campus protests in particular at Columbia. And what happened is that you had organizational groups. They were like, I wanted to have a protest around, you know, what would be the kind of anti war, pro Palestinian position. And then, of course, you had groups that were on the quote, unquote, other side of it. And so what happened at Columbia is they both, they both went through the administrative processes. And what happened is that one part of the campus green was devoted to the kind of anti war, pro Palestinian position, and other one was not, and was that kind of pro Israel standpoint. And so then it creates these conditions where then there's actually no productive discourse happening. And it actually creates these both real but also metaphorical walls that I think is reflective, then, of the kind of failure of the university for providing a space for genuine, kind of public deliberation. And so I think it's on that kind of last point, you know, especially the kind of public deliberation piece of it. You know, there's this kind of recent movement around kind of programs oftentimes coming through these civic engagement centers around kind of civil dialog. And like, how do you get students to kind of engage with these issues across differences? And again, I think the spirit of them come from the right place, and especially thinking about what happened at Columbia. But I also think, you know, like, there's a model for this one that actually was quite successful from the 1960s though limited in kind of time and space, which was the teaching model. And you know, this was a model in which, you know, it brought administrators together, faculty together, students together, residents from the local community together, in which the university was used at a space where it says, Okay, here's this political issue, and this political issue is divisive around the Vietnam War. Let us debate this issue in an honest way. Let us think. About ways in which we can engage students and faculty around it. You know, like the Vietnam moratorium, this kind of movement of organizing in DC comes out of the teach in movement, so it allows students to move ideas into action. But it also had teeth, to a certain extent, right? I think the issues right now with the kind of civil dialog movement. It's like, I don't think it's enough to just say, well, let's bring people from different backgrounds going to have a dialog. And then they all walk out of the room and, like, the institutional policy or concerns don't actually have, you know, much change surrounding it, right? And what the teacher was trying to do is like, Okay, if we deliberate around this, we then want right, the university actually then to take a position right, whether it's through financial means or just even the statement of positionality, but as long as it's rooted in a process of deliberation, I think that's been some of the critiques is that presidents would take these positions right, representing the University, but it wouldn't be part of a lot like a bigger community process going on in university. Now, of course, the caveat to all this, John, because we were just chatting about this in our kind of current context, you know, such an effort with like, the teach in like requires, on one hand, an amount of institutional autonomy that just seems almost inconceivable in our current context, especially thinking about what's going on between the universities and administration. But the other other way to think about this, and this is actually something that has become even more of interest to me recently, is that it also requires a shift away from the disciplining cultures and silos that are just so common right within the university is like, what was value about the teaching is that you would be bringing right a scholar from engineering to be in conversation with the scholar from the social sciences, to be in conversation with the activist in the local community in a way that, like forces one to rethink some of these boundaries of our knowledge cultures. And I think that's one of the actually, the even harder areas is like how to actually transform those, those cultures that, again, as we started, tend to have a very kind of conservative tendency. And I just want to end with this last point, you know, and it, I'm actually kind of working through a piece to see if it actually kind of works out in terms of kind of a clear argument around this. But I start this book out, and I don't think this would surprise listeners so much is that I allude to, you know, Tom Hayden students for democratic society, and the Port Huron statement, probably because it kind of rhetorically captures this, this larger vision of, kind of turning towards the university as a source of social change, right? And that's kind of that progressive vision that really has lived on so much of political discourse since the 1960s if I keep on thinking about this piece, where I go, well maybe Tom Hayden was wrong, right? And so one of the things I kind of focus on, or I've been thinking more about recently is that many of the historical actors and books, not a lot, but there's this kind of minority of thinkers who maintain that, like, maybe the university at its best is this intellectual third space for like, reflection and providing context for their activism. But you know, the actual, real work of kind of engaged citizenship, social activism, those are things that just are always going to happen outside of institution, right? That efforts to kind of try to create programs with the institution will always mitigate them, right? And so this is where, again, there's this kind of, partly this history of kind of SNCC, but also to certain extent, SDS creating, what were these alternative institutions, right? So students could still be at once engaged from the intellectual side in the university, but then when they wanted it to participate from a political standpoint, they had these alternative institutions that were the kind of resource for it. And so, like, one way I might end this, there's this activist from San Francisco State, Michael vozic, in the 1960s and I think he captures kind of my own kind of thinking of how I kind of navigate some of the lessons of this book. And he was in this conversation with some activists at San Francisco State, about thinking about, Well, should we a program, kind of in the institution that supports the work of activism, or, as some argued, like, you know, we need to keep it separate, right? Because it will ultimately kind of mitigate the type of work we want to do. And Michael said this, he just goes, you know, the real difficulty, and I'm quoting him here, is, trying to work inside and outside at the same time, the really radical experiment is trying to be in both places. And so like, for listeners that are intrigued with this book and thinking about lessons, is like, what is that kind of really radical experiment today that is kind of in both places? That. Hold its value. So I'll end with that.