So, just to reaffirm, can I get your name titles? What you do here at the university and pronouns?
Great. Yes. My name is Sherry Schwab, I use she her pronouns. I'm the Vice Provost for Institutional Equity and Diversity. Awesome. Also, other titles that go with that are the title nine coordinator, ADA coordinator, EEO coordinator. So that all goes this all in under there.
Awesome. Yep. So tell me a little bit about what you and the DI office do. Well,
we have a broad scope of responsibility. We have a unit called the Equal Opportunity equity unit and we do in that sort of our compliance related investigations as it relates to Title Nine gender equity all of the civil rights protected categories race, color, religion, etc. So we do education about prevention of those topics, but we're also the office where those reports come to and we do the necessary follow up investigation. And either we hand those investigative reports to Officer Student Conduct if that's appropriate, or if it's with employees, employee relations are handled, otherwise handle those. And we also do accommodations for pregnancy and parenting folks religious accommodations or commendations for persons with disabilities that are non students. So the Disability Resource office handles, accommodations for students, and we do accommodations for any other party. Awesome. Oh, so that's one unit equal opportunity and then we have the four cultural centers right, Women's Center, Multicultural Student Affairs, the LGBTQ Pride Center and the African American Cultural Center. So those are all student facing centers, and providing students services, student advocacy, student support on those identities that they're named after, and also in the intersectional identities that those and we have the the other unit we have here down the hallway is inclusive excellence and strategic practice, I ESP and that's our training and development. For mostly employees and an on campus to help people raise their cultural competency and, and help us help them not only get the knowledge but put it into practice, right like to actually apply and then I'm the vice provost and so I sit on the Chancellor's cabinet and I'm going to senior administrator for the university.
Yeah, so what does accessibility look like to you at North Carolina State?
Well, maybe you could before we so accessibility can mean a lot of different things. It can mean is that maybe I'll ask you after I try to respond here. It can mean access as it relates to persons with disabilities, you know, physical or mental, psychological disabilities, that allows them to have an accommodation to access their classes or activities on campus are their employees you know, do their work without being hindered by the structures that structural things we have in place that may need to be adjusted for that person to be fully have full access to the to their work or to their classrooms. Or to their activities. Now access can also mean like just access to higher ed so like limited resource folks, you know, may think about financial aid helps people have more access, so accessibility to higher ed so wasn't sure if your question was more around disability or if it's more around general access to higher education,
sort of thinking more so as in accessibility in terms of you know, and let me kind of tell you where I'm coming from with this article.
So I should have asked that from the beginning. Oh, no, it's
fine. That's um, that's on me. But there was the king in the clan documentary about a month ago, and one of the speakers in there was talking about, you know, we have the DEI office, and that's wonderful. And great, but you know, I wonder if and this was someone who was retired and moved on from state and she said, you know, but I also think that making sure that dei is accessible is, you know, just as important as having the office. And so I kind of went into this and was like, Okay, well, let's maybe look into what that looks like and how that
how is dei accessible to people? I mean, the one thing people say, oh, there's an office. That's like, okay, it really should be everybody, right? Like one office can do all the DEI work is that maybe what you're trying to get to in this story are somewhat
so just as much that as it is. And I want to make sure I'm not butchering the way I heard it, but basically that we can have dei but implementing it's another thing. Yes.
Gotcha. Kind of like that inclusive excellence in strategic practice. Yes, right. Okay. Right. Yeah. So we work at all primate, reframe it this way if I can. So, there, we tried to work at four different levels, when we're thinking about dei there is the inner individual or interpersonal cultural competency, right? Like, okay, I'm a white, heterosexual female. I hold those identities so I have less knowledge about the lived experiences of other people. So me learning more about diversity and inclusion at the inner individual interpersonal levels, me understanding my privileges my places where I am in the more dominant identity, perhaps for my white identity, and where I might be in the not the dominant identity, which is maybe female. So that kind of construct so I need to understand my own places, my own identities and then other places where I am because so just understanding that, but it's another thing for me to work at the other two levels. The structural or the organizational level. So understanding what policies may be kind of keeping me pay being different, equal or let's think about lactation spaces for pregnancy pregnant and parenting folks. It's like I want to be if I'm a new mother and I want to be able to come to work after I've had a baby, you know, not having spaces where people can look, have lactation or do lactation, that's a structural prohibitionist that kind of keeps people from able able to come back to work so putting it into practice, then it's like, it's one thing for me to learn about it in a class. It's another thing for me to be like, Oh, I'm gonna go back to my workplace and be like, Oh, now I understand more about that issue. What's something I could do about it? What's something I should do? So, to me, that's about putting it into practice. And that's really what we try to do with that unit is and we know we have people come and learn we won't just want them to consume the information and then walk out of class and go like great, I earned a badge. You know, I can put on my email that I finished this class, we want them to go back and actively think about what are the things I need to do differently and it can be even at the interpersonal level and you want to a world event happens that affects an identity that I don't hold. But I can still be sensitive about that and understand my colleagues or friends or students may be impacted by by that I may be impacted by even if I don't hold that identity. Think about the murder of George Floyd. I'm not a black person that that seeing that affected me and so how do we think about what that means in our workplaces or our classrooms? Gotcha.
So with that in mind, you know, what are things to consider in the realm of making dei practices accessible? You know, just in every day, sort of situations. Um,
so we have a great program that we've partnered with with our libraries. People often ask this question like, How can I access dia information? How do I know it's credible or not? So we created this DIY D E. I so clever, but it's a resource of like, okay, I want to learn about different topics. I maybe don't have time or not yet. A lot of folks worry about going into classes, classes, lectures, what have you where d is the topic because they're afraid to make a mistake. And then, but we want to be in a learning frame of mind. So that's why we created Dei, DIY Dei, I can go and I can look and I can do some self learning to help. And so that's one way we try to make it more accessible to people. How do I Where are credible sources that I can learn about, and we call it being called in we don't want people to be called out for learning and maybe making mistakes and not understanding everything yet. We want people to get the information know where they can safely ask questions like I don't really understand the conflict that's happening in Israel right now. I don't know a lot about that history. What's going on? Is the State of Israel saying something against or for the State of Israel, anti semitic or anti? Palestinian, so people are really nervous about that. I'm really afraid to ask questions. So where can they get that information? And that's what you mean by access. It's like how do I get this information and explore it and make informed decisions? about it? So resources like DIY D AI, is one way we try to make it accessible. We really think about that a lot in terms of our you know, whether it's newsletters or rather than just coming to a class and sitting in it or in a workshop sitting in it, what are other ways people can engage folks to learn more about it? And then, you know, putting things into practice, we do try for, to always pose a few questions. How does this show up in your day to day What? What is this new information mean for how you will respond for yourself, how you adopt it into your beliefs or not? Does it fit? You know, ask yourself these critical questions. And then you know, not only internally but also in your friends that you work with, or not work with, sorry, I'm in employment land right now. That you are, you know, are in your circle, but also in the world, right. So those are those different levels that I was talking about. Two people usually tend to apply to themselves first. What does it mean for me individual? What does it mean for me between the people i Who are my closest circle, and then that next level, what what does it mean in the world? Right? So we try to ask those questions or have people think about it. And then it's really for people themselves to decide how they want to apply that. We just try to help them think through what does that mean? And hopefully it's for improvements and and I think our our centers that I mentioned, they try to have workshops that people can attend or think about or speakers. It can make things more accessible. For people to understand, but it is the question that you bring up. I was at that presentation at that Wednesday night at the MLK and the kk k. You know, a lot of times I think what people think about is the people who engage in dei programs like that are the ones who are probably already the ones who maybe think it's a good thing. They value d diversity, equity inclusion, how do we bring in people who are still in the learning phase? You know, and I think fortunately, college is being at a university is one of those times we have the best opportunity to do that. Because you can just go to a lecture on a Tuesday night because it's here for you. You know, it's here on this campus. It's something to do and you can learn about all kinds of different new to you cultures and it can be as easy as you know, the dining hall is focused on a certain cultural food for a particular reason or cultural heritage month. Those are easy to engage in kinds of activities. And then and then and then people can branch out more but I do think we all could use more effective ideas about how to have conversations that might make be about sensitive topics identity, what you believe in what's important to you what religion you believe in what cultures, cultural things are important to you. We're not all going to agree we're going to see things differently. How can we have those kinds of conversations without harming people right without causing major blow ups or rips? Right? I think that's a question a lot of people have so I hope I'm getting to what you're trying to know you are. Okay. Okay, good. Good. I'm like, am I even on the right track here? So,
yeah, um, you know, share too much about what I'm hoping to do with the article. You know, this is hopefully going to be in next week's edition, which was, you know, Black History Month wrap up. And so, you know, this was something that you know, coming from an MLK event and felt like, okay, you know, this is something I've been thinking about for a while, probably could explore a little bit more, you know, I feel like on campus we talk a lot about di but also there's kind of this general, you know, I was just in a group project for a sexual communications class and we were talking about like, you know, our product is sex ed related. And so one of the things we were discussing was, what terminology to include and what not to, people were like, Well, we, you know, we definitely need to separate it out, you know, for, for, you know, not boys and girls. But, you know, I just forgot the terminology. I've heard the terminology like yeah, you know, assigned male at birth sign, female birth or like, exactly. And, you know, it was, um, it was kind of something I, this was just today, but it was like, Yeah, you know, trying to find the right words when you may not know exactly what they are not trying to reduce harm.
Yeah, exactly. We get a lot of questions like that people like, okay, hey, we want to have people register for this event. And we want them to tell us a little bit about themselves so they can be registered. Name, you know, you've got first name, last name. But then you add anything like, is there something at the beginning, you know, Doctor images of Mrs. Mister, what else do we need to add if we're going to be inclusive? And then you might have a preferred name. Even if your name is Sherry like mine, maybe I prefer to go by something else. Maybe it's Rene just for what other people have a first name and then they have a preferred first name for something for different purposes. So we want to be inclusive and open and not try. And then same with gender. Race, and other characteristics. So you know, and then I think, we have to think to ourselves, and I think especially when you're a writer, right journalism or others, how do you convey different principles and what's who's your audience and what are you working on? We we use often use, you know, female identified, what did the person tell us? They wanted to be referred to as so we, we instead of say, this woman, blah, blah, blah, blah, this female identified person so you kind of learn that but it does take a little while to, to know and sometimes when you're talking in a broad group, you don't know what every individual within a group might say. Do people prefer to be called Black or African Americans? That one that people often think of? So do you use black slash African American you know, so would you use bipoc? Do Yes. So I think language is evolving. You know this from your so how do we think about doing that effectively, without causing harm? While things are evolving? Yeah.
So in what ways could accessibility in regards to D IV something more accessible on campus and what ways might it be improved and what means might students be able to take to take to improve it?
She couldn't be more accessible
not to i know i for free questions at you. So okay.
Okay, good. Let's see, how could it be more accessible? I feel like
it's a great question. I think there are plenty of opportunities, but I don't know how students go about finding them. You know, like, yes, we've got the four centers and people go, Oh, that makes sense. But there are plenty of other places. Where dei types of information is being shared you saw on the library's you know, so I think the university has done a better job on the university calendar, where you can go like, what's all happening? What can I plug into? There's a category of labeled diversity events. So you know, so people could, if they're looking to find opportunities, that aren't just going to one of the centers, for example, there are there, ways to look up pay, you know, be more mindful of the billboards in the intelli or in their building. Of what kinds of events are happening. We've got an every college there's a college diversity director, and they're putting on college level dei programs we're putting on university open programs. So I think there are plenty of ways even you know, if you're in a student club or student org, oftentimes, they they have, you know, dei related topics or programs for people to listen to. So I think there are a plethora of opportunities just here on the university campus. And then there's also that Dei, DIY da to participate in. So I think I think there is a lot accessible to people if they know where to go to get it. And sometimes that's the hardest part on a big campus like this, like why do I even go to get some of this? So we're actually going to be starting a new in our newsletter for odd it's called ask that it be EDI. So you know, like, Dear Abby kinds of advice column sort of strikes from so arburg and ours is going to be asked Betty and again belonging, equity, diversity inclusion, and we're going to we're inviting people to send a question into us that we would use but we also have some, you know, common consolidated questions that people have asked us before so we can say, hey, where would I go to find this kind of information? What should I do about what if I have this kind of so we're wanting to use it as a way that people could ask us questions, and we try to respond to it in that sort of format. But so that's one way I mean, there's there are classes that people that especially, you know, undergrads, or every undergrad has to have a US diversity required class, you know, and so that's one way also, but people can also find plenty of workshops. So now that's not the putting it into practice part. And I think it can be but I think to have, you know, just look for those opportunities. There's so many, I don't know, let me answer your question. What was the other part of your question that have answered it or I
think so. It was just about, you know, putting into practice. How can students be a part of this? Where to look on campus, but I mean, yeah.
Stay open. I mean, diversity can be a whole array of things. And however it is that people are learning to understand other people. I think about what the kinds of lessons I learned about people not in my same situation, for example, through Habitat for Humanity, or like, gosh, we're building a home for someone who is in a less fortunate circumstance. Or you might go and volunteer at a soup kitchen or a shelter or something, those give you perspectives. To better understand you don't stop not to be performative, but you know, try to engage in ways with other cultures. Now's the time to start doing those kinds of things. That's when I did it. And I was at this event last Monday, this past Monday, where we had the the documentary showing of the 36 seconds of a hate crime. I don't know if you saw that
advertised. I think I've seen the film but but I was not even it's just come
out. So we in 2015 There were three NC State along to two that had just graduated and were going to dental school at UNC Chapel Hill that were murdered. They are Muslim, very prominent well successful students here and graduated started dentistry school their, their neighbor they had an altercation, the neighbor murdered them. And so this documentary is really about going back and taking a look at that. But so we had that showing and people could come see this documentary and then there was a panel discussion afterwards sort of about that. But at that event, I had to go look it up. The Imam of the Muslim mosque here that's right adjacent to campus, you know, they have coming up next weekend, march 2, or third, whatever Saturday the second just an open invitation. Anyone from the community can come to our mosque, it's an open house, we have food come ask what is our religion about? And I went to it a couple of years ago, because I was like, you know, I don't know enough about Muslim as a religion. And it's here's one of our neighbors, so I went there and it was one of the best experiences. I mean, I was a little scared to go first not scared of the people. But because I was going by myself, but I didn't know anybody. And I'm like, I don't know what this is gonna be like, but it was very welcoming. And I learned something I would have maybe never had an opportunity to learn about you know, otherwise. And so again, please don't put that I was scared the people I was just, you know, I was going on my own. I didn't have any friends. Hey, venture friends. Let's go but you could do that. Hey, bunch friends. Let's go and spend an hour invest an hour of your time to learn about another culture. Yeah. And it opens up more than Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I can figure this out. And then you just leaves tomorrow. So is
there anything else that I should know? Going into this article? Just in general
I think if you have an opportunity to you know, highlight that there are news article like articles, the articles newsletters that we have for the cultural centers, that is an easy way for people if they just subscribe to them, you know, they can stay informed, or of course, follow us on Instagram and you know, all that. But if they plug into a couple's it's an easy way to keep informed of opportunities to do to do something, so there's also the things Student Government has Diversity Committee that you know, they put on so if people have concerns sort of they can think about student government is another opportunity. I think Graduate Student Association also has a diversity committee. So you know, the student government is working to think about these kinds of topics to not just us here in our office, and I think to lift up that every every college does have a designated diversity director, sometimes it's an Assistant Dean for Diversity or, and so there are places in your college and people in your college as well as these university wide offices that are here to help and help you navigate and want your people to be engaged in dei from wherever they are, you know,
