It just kind of, he actually, it disconnects you from an empathic presence, because I'm not listening to you, or it can be a reaction you're you're talking about Israel, and I get totally pissed off and say, No, you're absolutely wrong. And I start, you know, having my own emotions, reactions to it again, I'm not being present with you, and so all those things you know, emotional contagions a reaction to what, what, what you discover through empathy, is also not empathy. It may be started with empathy and empathic presence, but it shifted and it becomes actually a block to empathy, just like sympathy becomes a block, but it started with an initial, you know, moment of empathy. So that adds to the to the confusion, and that's where the empathy and that's where the empathy circle is really helpful, because you have to maintain the empathic listening when the as long as the other person is speaking, and you have to be able to reflect back your understanding of what that person has said. And to do that, you got to pretty much pay attention. And again, that's based on Carl Rogers, using that in the therapeutic process, he would only listen to his clients, not give him advice, not sympathize with them, not ask them questions, only stay present in this empathic so, yeah. So I think in terms of your response, what do I think about that it's like, it's a matter of staying in presence and with that person you were talking with, you could have asked her for an empathy circle, right? Okay, what I hear you say, is this, this, this? And my thought, is this, this, this, can you reflect back your understanding of what I said? And you're sort of bringing people into that empathy circle practice, and it's totally Yeah, like, for example, just one person in our group was mentioning, she was, you know, driving with her son and her son brought up an issue in the family that he was sort of critical about what's going on in their family, and she tried to defend herself, right? It's like, no, that's not it. And he just kind of, he got, it's like, oh, she's not listening. She's just defending herself. So he said, Oh, forget it. You know you're right, or you're right. You know, that kind of just acquiesced thing, because I don't want to argue with you. And then she said, Oh, I've learned this empathy practice. I should just listen. So she reflected back, oh, you're just saying there's these problems in the family, and you're having concerns about that. Yeah, that's right. And by her listening to him, she opened up, he opened up. Shared more. Shared more. Instead, it was like a great they were driving from, you know, Santa Barbara, to San Francisco. They had, like a whole a great day, because she just started listening to him instead of getting defensive and responding. So, yeah, and that's a choice, which I think we should all be making, like, a good choice, saying, okay, is this really worth like, this hellish car ride, or should I just, I mean, even just to avoid the bad car ride, let's make the better choice for our mental health or whatever. So I, I hope, I wish I made that choice more. And I think I I'm working on, I think we're all, like, working towards these things in our own relationships. It's just, it's crazy to think how many wasted, potentially beautiful relationships ended without people listening to each other. I know it's happened to me, definitely in my own relationship. So yeah, the whole woke it seems like a wasted energy. If it had been a focus on empathy and people empathizing all those millions of hours, it would have transformed the world. You know, it's kind of how I see it. And the empathy circle is a good training ground for that, because when you do the empathy circle, you're practicing those that mindset. So it's sort of like, you know, your neurons that fire together, wire together. So when you're practicing in the empathy circle, empathic listening, you're strengthening the neural circuits in your mind, those pathways of instead of reacting, you're deepening those listening and I think that's I think that something that's unique that we have is we not only have sort of the philosophical framework, but also some practical tools, you know, for fostering empathy. So I'd love to see and, you know, support you in holding empathy circles, or we can even hold some empathy circles with our group. You're welcome. We could set a, you know, if you have some friends or something, we just get four of us together and actually just practice an empathy circle, or something like that. And so you'd have, and we also have trainings for it too. So every couple months, we have a four week training on how to facilitate an empathy circle. I think that'd be helpful and useful. And I think that there are people in my program at Northwestern that would be interesting.