because they can use people they don't know which direction equity so being able to get to the door so there's a notice of default that happens. Don't write them just public record. Who's gonna get to the door? Because Rick goes as whoever gets the doors gonna win that relationship. And if I'm calling and somebody's in default, they're not going to pick up their phone because all the other build guys are chasing them anyway. And if you're male, it's up to him. They've got a stack, you know, Bryce from Secrets You said yeah, I've gone to houses where they've had stacks of postcards under other kitchen table and, and they will call out anybody because because they feel bad. And so if you get to the door, you can build a relationship with them. That's where there's the opportunity. I believe that the next 18 months is getting to the door. I have an OD and I've tracked them for very nice. I've tracked them sorry about that. I've done in the last couple of months. I tracked 20 of them that track 10 of them in the last six months in the last six months. There's been a lot of government money that's come to the rescue for them, and they've got equity. And so HUD has just been putting tons of money out there getting people current on their homes. Well, those are just going to come into foreclosure again. And so they're going to have to make a decision about taking the equity off the table. Whether they're going to continue extending where they're gonna end up living. And so I believe that getting to the door right now, there's a great opportunity in helping these folks before it actually, after they get an OSHA default before it goes to sale, because it will get cured.
You're contacting the actual homeowner and you're hoping to what if either, if I help them with the short sale before it goes to foreclosure?
Well, first of all, we just come from contribution, right? So we want to meet homeowners because we work in our area. And by being able to get to the door with them and bringing empathy and end up being in having and being gracious and asking questions saying, hey, Kelly, realtor Keller, Williams, as a matter of public record, you know, your homes in default. Were you aware of that? And they'll say yeah, we are where we've been a little modification. We're working on loan modification. Okay, well looks like get about $200,000 equity in your home or more. So if you ever get to a place you don't know your officer reach out to me. Can I get your phone number? Yep, now we've got the right phone number now we get their email address. Now we get the permission marketing piece that we added on to be qualified to our database. We didn't have a realtor report and we specialize in the area that we can really helping them if they if they're in a pinch.
Do you provide them with any materials pre pre scripted materials that share your experience with their options? Or do you give them options like hiding?
Yeah, we give them a homeowner's matrix and then I'll send that out to a thicker so that everybody you guys can make it your own. But there's there's 10 to 15 different options on there from bankruptcy to renting out a house to take the money out of your 401 K to a forbearance to you know, all these different options. Could somebody an attorney that we can refer them to? Because we're building that business out just like Mr. Kimmel does. And so by, you know, direct them then to somebody that can provide them a free consultation so they know what their options are.
So you provide them with what you write checks with their assumptions.
Yeah, it's just the one page and so he has a list of all the things. It's got a QR code down in the corner, in the top left hand corner, it tells me about where their expenses are at the top right hand corner. It tells me where the mortgage said so in that way, from when they originally read your loan, one how their income has changed, or to their mortgages change if they've done that, and is it more than 45%? Because that's a conversation that they're taking equity out of their house that they're showing
on it. And so, any one time how many of things like tracking or staying in touch with
let's see the team is in touch with 20 to 22. There might not that forever. And that's an interesting thing. So last year, I tracked about I tracked 24 of them last year and then through them took two listings last 10 nights and then ended up getting re forecaster and we're back current by by additional funding sources. So it'll be interesting. Moving forward to see the consumer pitch in getting to the door and being in this conversation. So have a better idea of after the second of this year.
And those two that went to listing before that you were talking about how did they let us stick with the scenario?
Yeah, maybe there are both one door that we've not done. Yeah, my dad played COVID No, my sister doesn't talk to me. She's the the trustee of the state. She'll never sell the house. And I said well, if I can get you guys together coffee are you willing to have coffee and gamble and talk over five years? We independent decision maker says lucky winner when I read and then the split between the two of them. They were able to control there are other excellent property
Wow. Pretty amazing.
So yeah, just go to Georgia grounded in Nevada. You don't have an eye level of empathy that you're just a solution.
And you got started working default forbearance because I've been getting a ton of those.
No, we have not.
I think Justice week. Either my team or someone in our office because we get a lot of stuff from the office to 1314 default forbearance.
And what's the difference? What could you explain that in more detail?
I mean, it's still, I mean, it's still default and still some eventually going to be foreclosed on. But basically they did their forbearance and they haven't been paying it. And so, the other thing we've been kind of doing because we're like known as the like REO investment team, like we just make it known throughout the entire office. We you know, like, like everyone knows it's we do so we get a lot of referrals just from in house in the office, where they're like, Hey, I've got this person. Here's what's going on. I don't know what to do. You guys deal with it. And I'm like some people don't want to referral fee. They just want to help the person. Some people are like, hey, referral fee on it. And then I feel like on a lot of those situations, we've been trying to go with more the creative financing deals for either ourselves or other clients because rates are higher right now. And there's opportunity for assumption alone, right? So just because something like may seem like a short sale, we've kind of went the opposite way on it. It was like well, you're at 2.9% There's no point in selling this because, you know, are we going to waste our time go through a short pier sale for six months, I might be able to get you someone to take over your note because you got 2.9% interest and give you 2030 grand in your pocket. And we just call it a day and move on. Right? So a lot of those situations are just you know, like there's a lot more opportunity and we actually learned something from one of my agents on Tuesday. She's like, this girl does a ton of investment stuff. Her and her husband have been able to use their VA loan to get 30 doors in the last seven years. So they're really, really, really smart on how they do things. And they told me the other day and they actually in the process of doing one is you're gonna assume a VA loan if you're not a veteran. The only reason you can do it is because let's say I'm the veteran and I'm giving you the assumption alone. If I do that, you can get it you don't have to be a veteran, but I eligibility is still not valid until that property sells. So everyone thinks on an assumption alone if you can't do it which you can. I've been talking to lenders that say you can't and we actually are doing one right now because you can do it. There just have to be okay with their eligibility and their entitlement being done until now if you do a va va va approved for VA. The person selling it gets their entitlement back and the other person uses they're entitled before so those are other ways you can do it.
Real big caveat to that and I know this from personal experience. I sold my soul my first home and I let them assume my VA they didn't formally assume I think you're good subject. And they went into default about a year and a half after they purchased the property. And what that did was the VA contacted me and said you're going to lose all your other eligibilities medical, everything else that comes with with being a vendor. And so I went to the guy or he was in a mess and ended up selling in there, however, was going to come back to me so you have to be really really careful that you disclose that. If something goes sideways, they could lose all their other stuff to not just their eligibility perhaps only if it's subject to
their kind of subject to and it's a true assumption you don't when you're correct on it as on a subject to you do. If anything were to happen, you're liable and that
take you back a little bit to the default berries. You're getting a lot of listings that way How can you walk us through the process on that and how
it's honestly there were just I mean just regular, they were just regular like going through funny Notice of Default, and then you find out their forbearance ones. And then I started just going through forbearance after that because it's lists of people.
I mean, here's the thing, you're so good. It's your you know, don't assume.
Dive into it. That's, that's really really really, really, really hard to get into talk to no see because once they go and default some of these guys want to try to figure out ways like people that are on the note some of them just want help on getting these people out or because they're like we already worked with them. What can we do? So it's basically go into short sale route, have it be like hey guys, I know this was in forbearance and even having forbearance and someone will tell you what we have these people you know we'll get keys to get them out or we'll we'll reach loan or whatever we need to do like like this many possibilities you just say willing to make the calls. So that's where me all telling them I might spend three days finding one client. Yeah, one client that I took three days to get. It's gonna get like that's the guy that wanted to emailing everyone that he does notes with and said they only want to use me so yeah, that's three days a bit, but it's also endless possibility because he owns all the notes,
not you. So what you're saying is the forbearance list that you're talking about is not public knowledge, like,
no, no, it's not public knowledge. You gotta be willing to ask the right questions and ask people what the default Notice the default is, and then you kind of talk to those people. Oh, you are in forbearance. Here's what's happening. They focus on something because they're in forbearance, they can't get foreclosed on, to be honest with you. I would say probably more than half of going for some for some reason think they can get foreclosed on because they weren't. You haven't paid to sit.
If you were someone like me that's not doing any of this at all. Where would you recommend that I start with the track of less
than I would say Pull, pull more voters, just just start calling them. Don't even waste your time like you want to start tracking the information. You're tracking the information. The reason I'm tracking, I'm tracking to see the trends, how many more properties are going number one to default, just so I know, and how many people properties are really coming out to reo. So I know so then I know okay, it's been
more like looking the trends or trajectory on that. On that. Why do you think that is?
Just because well, because rates are high. Less people at the auctions are buying them. When I go to the auction. There was I mean, probably a year ago there was probably 10 on Tuesday and Monday.
People are always
there. It's like you're starting to see all the you know, new investors and all the other people and all the no buyers. They're like all fallen off and the guys that have been there for five 610 years, 20 years. They're the ones coming back and buying these ridiculous rates. They're more realistic. They know what their endgame strategies are. So if they if the trustee is not going to sell that price, it's just going to move. The fact that people were being more realistic about their numbers because I feel like when you're at the auctions, people were buying based on an assumption of appreciation of what was happening. I saw properties that at like fully renovated, were worth 220,000 And at the auction they were selling and it needed 40 grand to work with sell for 200 and I'm like what's the plan though? Oh, well, in a few months, it's gonna probably work to 80 I'm like you're facing on a guess like,
maybe more clients down the road. Steven, you might get the era. Yeah.
Steve, you're right because I do the same thing in my market. As far as tracking the auction sells. We do everything electronically. Thank God. We have to show up anywhere. But you're right. And I think just to add, to add to that is the rookies made a lot of mistakes paying too much. That's why they're gone. I've seen guys outbid me that are sitting on 15 properties and doesn't have a soul. So there's shocking bullshit, basically, to my opinion.
I got investors, we've been fixing flip. Yeah,
but my other question though, Steven, you mentioned earlier about about loan assumptions. There's due on sale clauses on on everything but VA and FHA. So how do you get around the due on sale clauses?
You're assuming the loan you're going through the loan process assumption with your loan, your loan, that the rate
is not a subject that there's there's there's the the one sell clauses on mortgages,
that's that that assuming alone and a subject to are two totally different things subject to you'd have to worry about to do on the on the you'd have to worry about the clause. An assumption alone is just me going to your bank and saying hey, I want to assume the loan, they run and do my credit and I get fully approved through the bank through your to take that loan at that rate. It's not and that's where that what you're talking about to subject to me taking over the property based upon an attorney document but you're technically two totally different things.
Even with with with interest rates where they are now and you have mortgages at a much lower rate, what what bank in the right mind would would approve a mortgage rates so low?
I just got one
that said no. I think this year we've in the last six months we probably bought 10 I've not had one denied that I bought myself
at lower interest rates and today
yeah, like literally all the rates are I have not had one bend enough.
Wow. That's great to know.
Instituting here is a RTDs are all inclusive trustees. And in California in order to be wraparound, they have different terms for it. But basically what you're paying $1 and therefore to their bank, and you're really recording a memorandum of sale. And I don't know if you can do that in other states. I know you can do that in California because I've done it before. There's a guy out here how he dealt all this business has been doing fairly well for the last four years on it because I've known him all that time. But you are you I wouldn't pay the seller directly. Directly I would set it with a management fee and build that into the payment. And we've we've done that over and over again here and I haven't done it recently, but I have done it probably 20 years ago and it's starting to come back because the rates are too high. And there's a lot of there's a lot of you know lower rates out there that people want to move and they can't move because you got nowhere to go. But we can get them out of their place and when I got
took over his loan, but then he IgD just like that. And I had that property for about seven years not a hassle at all. does apply to us. It does apply to that that's true, but you know the way it's being done as long as the mortgage, you'll find out as long as the mortgage is being paid. They don't really know where it's coming from. Because I've got to tell them
any issues just as long as it's paid, I've never had any issues.
As long as it's paid, there's never a problem as well. That one it's got to wait, but it doesn't you have to get you know you have to lay up to the seller so they know what their what their risk is what But technically, they really don't have a result. They've gotten their money and moved on. Because it's just so difficult that they probably already had against their name, or they may they may have been almost at sale. And so if you can disclose what the what the issues are and then you can go from there and as long as they are aware of it and attorneys can review. You know, we actually have a couple of attorneys that wrote the contracts for us. The only
way I do it is the attorney draw it out. Yeah.
Steven, let me ask you do you use lane by how do you get your foreclosure list?
I've got a ton of systems. Unfortunately I pay for way too many. I use land land boys. I use bash leads I use prop stream. I've use
these are all paid for.
I have red X. I have Vulcan seven.
Why so many?
No, because you know what? From what I find is every time I pull a different list from different places and skip trace it with different systems. It's always completely different. Yeah, I always get different data. I always get different numbers. I was getting different email addresses. am I wasting a ton of money on system 100% But if I like if it's a property I really need like there's a property we're flipping in the house cross street, no one can get a hold this lady and I ran it through all the systems and literally yesterday at filings that will go and it was some random number that nobody else could find. And I found it and it was on one of the systems, but it happens a lot. Like it's just completely different data. And so I just like using a ball. I mean, at least my full team uses them. So at least everyone kind of uses everything consistently. I guess maybe
you're signing up to these lists to get information about before it's for clothes because you know Dallas in Texas, the count is backwards right for the upcoming foreclosure by using that data.
You can you can but it's I mean my thing is my time is valuable, right. So like if I'm going to sit there and comb through county records takes time. I rather just pay for it. And then there's like four but like actually I have another system to it's fine call foreclose Houston and then foreclose Atlanta trying to think what the other ones are. And basically, there's always somebody that has it and literally I just went public and I can even send mailers from it and do everything directly from it. If you look at it, like point and click and then like it gives me all the data. The one thing I do like about that system though, it gives me everything I need to know to be honest with you. For example, like God, man,
I'm gonna ask you for a list of all the places that you foreclosure data
I could show you what this one like this one system uses that I really liked. Okay, it's like it gives me every piece of information I can ever want.
You know the host go ahead
and which side is this? This is one of the it's called, it's called 14, Houston. foreclose Atlanta it's like they name it each one right? They have a bunch of so the thing I like about this is so if you can see it. Can you see this? This spreadsheet? Yeah, okay. So gives you the address Tiger, Lake Michigan loan services, click here for the notice. Here's the values and tells me if it's going to like everything I need to know.
And it's in there in default, or have they been
default, every single one of them in auctions is sometimes I'll go like okay, so I know right off the bat. There's only a few companies that do reverse mortgages, right. So reverse mortgage it'll tell you no, okay, here's a reverse mortgage coming out. Jazz ma also known as ma'am, okay, so they're one of my clients. I know that I need to reach out to these guys to see what's coming up.
Sorry, who would the reverse mortgage companies mainly, you basically
have Sealink finance of America, which don't have many promise. And there's a few small ones, but Sealink and RMS are probably the two big reverse mortgage loans Fannie Mae used to but waterfall Botamo and so they don't even have them anymore because you have to have a certain license for it and only certain certain companies have to licensed by him to be able to do them so
So you click on the you click on the notes and
everything I can find out where it's mapped that
like contact information for the companies who you can reach out to see if they have that kind of data in our respective markets.
All of them. You just have to you just have to search like the Atlanta one. I'm not meddling I just got Atlanta and and so I was like, let me just see what they have. And I just, I'm gonna research it and I found it and I was like, okay, every city every every area. I actually found this through a wholesaler and nationwide and he gets these lists from all these companies all the time.
That would be what said what area are you well,
the Houston one but like I have San Antonio, I have Austin, Dallas, Atlanta. I have what's the name of the company? There's like the websites just foreclose in the city. And they have like a bunch of different ones and it's so then like the link to the trustees, so then you know who the trustee is to because it tells you who the trustee is. Here's the owner but it tells you like auctions with like Hasler and Associates and all that. So then you can click View the notice, and it goes.
Steven, walk me through this website. How are you? What are you what's your roadmap on this? How do you get your information? Is it the same place or do you just have to search everywhere?
So here you go. So like this one, I just clicked the loan notice information, start mortgage with like even on loan servicing, it gives me the address of the loan servicer
and what are you going to do from there with that information?
Okay. So I know it's a nation start reaching out to nation start, find like, and you just figure it out, like you start to just make contacts like, I don't know anyone in Asia, but I'm gonna call them up and say, Hey, we potentially want to buy this property. We're trying to figure out the issue blah, blah. They start forwarding to people.
Talk to you, but
you'll eventually get there. Right? And would you reach out to the servicer as well as the
I would go for the servicer first as a service is gonna make the decision on who does the dispo usually, because that's the information you have obviously, if I already know who's gonna dispose of this asset other words and ask and a lot of times you don't like it unless you know exactly like everyone knows those companies that they like I'm trying to think of like, so you're here to you know, who's going to disclose it's going to be fellow Okay, so don't waste my time. Right. Why? Because Bella is there Harringtons
Carrington Okay, Bella? Okay,
like, what? Why do I waste my time on it? I know it's gonna go to Bella. Move on.
I hate. I hate that word Carrington. So like
mid mid Firstbank okay, I don't know who that is. Maybe I'll call the workload the trustee, call him and see what he can tell me
to the note holder straightaway to the service.
Can you see a copy of the declaration page on that property?
Service? Now just just just to note, it's just the notice substitute trustee sale.
Where would you go to find a copy of the declaration page?
Well, now I'll go now after I get this right, I have the I have information I can start going to Okay, here's the filing numbers. You go into the county, right? And you can start to piece it together. Once you know that right? Like you can get the information once you get to. Once you start getting valid data. It's just snowballing in there. If you want to ask an easy way to do this, there is no easy way you know, getting someone dedicated to doing it. Unfortunately, I'm so anal that I do it myself. I don't have people do this to me.
Would you say there is any sort of time period is is there a typical part time period for when you get this list to when they list how much time do you have?
Oh this is before hits the foreclosure auction so so I would I would get on this list simple. First off when you're reaching out to these companies, you might bring up this property and say hey, I actually may have someone interested right. You might not have any interest in who cares what is the conversation? And then it's like oh, you know, let me know if you need a valuation whatever on this property. It may not come on for a few months but then may turn you like actually there's another property we have or anything any help. It's initially building the relationship with the right person. Right and then because you're not and Paul agree, you're not going to get everyone was like oh, I want to deal with you. They may hang up on you. Okay, no big deal. But if you're telling them hey, I might actually have someone that wants to buy this. Okay, well, let's talk. Let's see what we can do get it off the foreclosure. Now. They're gonna save money. That's their big thing. How are they? How can they save money? They don't have to go through this lengthy process and just vote. You have to be creative. You have to think outside the box. You can ask Paul. I'm terrible at this stuff. I'm not. I'm not good with scripts. I just got out of my own bubble and told myself, you know what, I'm gonna do it. If I'm making the team do it. I'm doing it myself. Like, let me show them this works. So I just started doing it because no one else is gonna do it besides yourself. So I was like, Alright, let me just start doing it. And I started taking the time and researching it and like, maybe you waste a lot of time on this and I'm like, I do waste a lot. And I tell him I don't waste a lot of time I spend a lot of time because it pays off and I get
back to that note. You were looking at that foreclosure notice or whatever it is where it says auction or Kessler, what does that mean, again?
Kessler is that's the trustee. Okay. So now like so that's the trustee sale. So that's really it turns out foreclosure attorneys. They just I don't know why it's stamped. But yeah, Kessler, like he's one of the foreclosures or that trustees. You call the trustee and say hey, I actually have a buyer that sometimes they'll talk to the right person for you, or, Hey, you know, I mean, you just have to get in good with these people to take the time, spend some time because this is where you're going to make them like you. And I've told people this story before and still nobody believes so there's a property that I found on that I picked up a swear I did. Actually, I'm trying to buy the owner and I'm like, hey, I want this property. And the guy's like, and I can add as I get the 9 billion word needs a lot of work, whatever. We couldn't get it. He was so firm on 100 It gets foreclosed. I go to the foreclosure auction, I went to foreclosure. However, don't sell it to me because the trustee pulled it back. So I still don't get it. Two days later, my wife gets it at them as an REO
Oh, that's funny.
I was already in
contact with the bank and everybody everyone knew I wanted this
gets I can't even buy
it now. Yeah. All my my time and everything because yeah, because You
