Reporting climate change from the Pacific Islands. Global Journalism Seminar with Lagipoiva Cherelle Jackson, Founder, Pacific Environment Weekly

12:30PM Nov 10, 2021

Speakers:

Meera Selva

Lagipoiva Cherelle Jackson

Keywords:

journalists

pacific

islands

climate

climate change

reporting

people

coverage

pacific islands

covering

cop

journalism

impact

media

pacific island

issue

country

cyclones

specific

story

Hello, and welcome to the Reuters Institute for the Study of journalism global journalism seminar series. We are in the second week of the cop 26 summit in Glasgow and it seems very apt and very appropriate to be speaking today with our speaker that you prefer Cheryl Jackson. A climate journalist from Samoa. She's both a climate expert but also a good friend. She will and an old friend electric over Sherelle was a fellow here at the Reuters Institute and way ahead of the curve. In 2010. She wrote a piece of work of work for us called staying afloat in paradise reporting climate change in the specific Pacific. At the time that we were only just beginning to understand both how important climate journalism was in this area and also the depth of it and how hard it was at the time and still can be to convince newsrooms that this was a topic worth considering, since her fellowship with us she's gone on to found the Pacific environment weekly publication aimed at increasing coverage of environmental issues across a region, and it's also a regular contributor to The Guardian, The Economist in many other publications. Charles, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you so much, Meera. for having me out of the lava, everyone.

Thank you. Welcome. Now you have a presentation. So I'm gonna hand the floor over to you and then we'll be back for questions and general discussion.

Thank you. Thank you, Mira. I'll share this screen now. And we'll go from there

and hopefully today, technology will cooperate with us. Okay. Can you see the presentation Yes, we can. Perfect. Perfect. So good afternoon. Good morning. It's great to be here. Once again, thank you, Mira for having me and Caitlin for organizing. So it's a pleasure to return to my roots at the institute. I wish I was there, although it's always freezing when I'm there. So I'm glad we're doing virtually as well. A little bit about me just to say that I realized with some dismay that I'm it's been 10 years 11 years since my time at Reuters so I always have to reintroduce myself when I do these talks, so I'm originally from survivor which is an island in some more the bigger islands. My I was motivated to do the work that I do on environmental journalism. Because of where I come from the islands I'm from which is survived and also the people in the family that I represent. And a key part of that family is the lady here with the three bridge flowers, who is my mom Hi chief, but Felicity Malanga Jackson, she founded the first indigenous Conservation Society in some more and one of the first ones in the Pacific. So under her leadership, rather and her you know, being brought up by a strong conservation leader, you kind of didn't really have a choice but to, to also work in the field and, you know, promote the value of environments to indigenous communities. So in 2009, and 2009, I found it the epic environment weekly 2010 I did the research on thing afloat in paradise. And, you know, I think we did a great job introducing, so I don't need to go further into that. But I wanted to highlight the outline of my presentation. So So first, I'll be highlighting the stages of reporting on climate change as ICS from the global narratives of Pacific islands. Second, highlights of some of the cop 26 coverage that I've seen so far. Third, my personal experience in covering climate from a Pacific Islander perspective. And then I'll briefly touch on Pacific representation in media research and in climate journalism initiatives, and then touch on tips for coverage. It sounds long, but it's not that long. I'm looking forward to kind of discussing with you some of the issues that will come out of this. So here's my theory and how I've perceived how climate has been covered by global media in respect to to small island states or Pacific islands. In this case. I feel like in the past 20 years, this is how its evolved. One the first stage being that global North media paid very little attention to climate change as a new story in respect to Pacific islands and Pacific islands were not really a factor when it came to climate change reporting. Second, it was when they did start covering issues related to climate it was a very much of western perspective, global North media recognized the problem and started covering it from a Western perspective. You know, using the ice caps, and polar bears and things that in the Pacific Islands we couldn't really connect with. We didn't see ourselves as part of that problem. Then you had the but we're deep inside now which is doom and gloom reporting. So co founder of media realized that you know that their islands are part of the world who are facing the direct impacts of climate change. And then there was this, there is this influx of over reporting on the doom and gloom aspects, but with a twist on Western like lenses, and you know, I'll expand on this as we go. And then the future and it's also now I perceived as the focus on less on them on doom and gloom, but more on In Depth investigation of high emitting countries more like a solutions oriented approach to climate journalism. So that's really that's happening now in some areas, but it's rarely an in depth treatment of Pacific Island issues.

So just a snapshot, I know that mirrors just returned from cop 26 And I really want to have a great conversation with her on that to see what her reflections are, because it's a whole other beast in itself when you cover it as a climate journalist. So just some initial research reflections on the coverage so far. If you just do a Google search on club 26 in Pacific Islands, the most prominent news item that you'll see is the to follow Minister speaking doing his presentation to a side event and cook 26 from the ocean. Quite an extraordinary achievement by them in that you know, it was it was a very compelling imagery, they captured it really well and use social media to push out the the messaging and highlight the work that he did, there in presenting from from the ocean. Then you also have some issues you know, the the usual vanishing islands approach disappearing islands and then representation of Pacific islands in in cop 26. Then, if you look at how the thick media covered cop 26 You'll see smiling faces. Everyone's happy and doing the 1.5 which is a campaign run by one of the environmental regional environment so bodies in the Pacific and it's really more nationally focused on what Pacific islands are doing as a cop. So for example, my mana any restaurants and has just been really lifted to the cup Bureau a big deal. There's only 11 members of the Bureau and one of them is someone and she says sits representative. So that's actually a huge deal that wasn't really covered by global media because it's not anyone thinking or wearing a skirt. So So here's the differences that I saw. Global Media tended to and this is this is a classic approach, global media tend to focus on Pacific islands, kind of quaint region. When it comes to climate change coverage. There's references to tiny countries to disappearing islands. It's almost an amusing subject. Matter or region to include in a climate story. continuously focus on grief on doom and gloom as well. And there's also broad generalizations and the impact of climate change in Pacific islands. As we all know, the Pacific Islands there's varying degrees of impact depending on the type of islands you're the actual nations which, you know, sea level rises, and they do and there is like imminent, rich on the existence of those islands. And then you have volcanic islands such as more who you know, where the impacts differ greatly to explanation. And then if you look at the way that Pacific Island media covered it, really focus on national approaches, national approaches, being you know, what is the Minister of climate change or the Minister of Foreign Affairs doing what are the interventions that the small island states are making? This happy faces like I pointed out, there's empowering language. You'll see that when Pacific Island a youth advocates were, you know, appeared in plenary, or were in protest, you know, that they highlight at the resilience of specific people, and also the voice of use, you know, but it was really empowering language. So you'll see in Pacific media that when we cover ourselves and Pacific islands, we treat the Pacific like any other country, not as quaint little countries in the Pacific Ocean. And then, you know, there's also like, specific focus on the topics of interest in these in the differences with islands. So, my personal experience in covering climate change of the Pacific Island journalist has been very, very interesting. Interesting in that

throughout the my experience, I feel like I constantly, constantly have to push the fact that we are not tiny that the issues that we face are legitimate and should be globally recognized. And not just, you know, a one off story for one particular beat occasionally, and it's it's very discouraging, but it's also very encouraging in that every time I have to argue for specific coverage or specific words to be used. I know that my role in that particular news organization at that time is important. And I'll reflect on that as we go. So some of my most recent coverage is the Pacific Islands. declaring our baselines, fixing baselines of the Pacific Islands so that when islands shrink the maritime entitlements of the Pacific don't shrink with it. Then some of the coverage on the IPCC reports and implications on the Big Island. And then most recently, that's a really exciting project on an impossible choice. And it's a podcast and article series by The Guardian. This is initiated by the Pacific editor, Kate Lyons in Australia, but that's what this appeared in print in London, two weeks before cop 26. And the idea there was really to highlight the true impact of climate change on the existence of atoll nations. We spoke to something like 30 people on these islands on Tuvalu and Catherine islands and people who migrated as a result of climate change. We spoke to experts and ambassadors were negotiating on behalf of the Pacific. So it really brought together kind of like this holistic narrative of the impact of climate change on the people of the Pacific. So if you have time, go listen to the podcast series because you'll hear the voices off the Pacific, about the impact on them. And when when we noticed climate change in our history and in our communities. So the podcasts involved a team of eight people working across London Sydney, Melbourne, and then we had correspondents out on on the islands in Tupelo in New Guinea, and in a few other places. And so, you know, we worked over a few months, trying to track people down trying to make sure that we get all of the voices that we needed for the podcast. It was the first time I worked on a podcast on climate change. I was really interesting experience. And these are some of the things I came away with which I think is really important. When we speak about covering climate change. And I think for some context, when I did my study in 2010 at Reuters Institute, I did look at how UK media was covering Pacific islands. So to then 11 years later work on a project with the Guardian, on the cific islands was a big, big deal. It's a huge honor for me to do this, but also spoke to the changing nature of mainstream journalism and how you know the Pacific is becoming this area where mainstream media he is regarding. So these are some of the reflections that I have on that particular experience. One representation matters when it comes to covering climate in the production team that we had, it was all Australian, yet we were covering yet the story was on the Pacific. So I was grateful to be part of the production team. Because that means I could, you know, insert the nuances in the Pacific that was definitely necessary for projects like this.

All along. All throughout the project. I constantly had to assert empowering language, because it comes naturally in the coverage of specific issues. So the number of tiny references I had to delete in the script was quite extraordinary. And this is no judgment. You know, on my colleagues, my amazing colleagues at the guardian who I worked with, I just think something you know, are just second nature and you can really avoid it. Another thing I found really interesting, which, which again, speaks to the need for that representation, like if you want to report on the Pacific, have a Pacific Islander as part of your team collaborate with Pacific journalists. There was a reference to a paramount she's on one of the islands that one of our journalists went to. And so when the interview came back to production, my Australian colleague wrote this part of the script that said, you know, name of the of the chief said, let's say Tom, Tom sassy, a paramount chief. They're like, it's it was a very innocent kind of scripting. And so I changed their to the name of the village, the island country. And she queried that why, you know, that's longer you know, why, why would you change it like that when we've just made the paramount chief? And I'm like, would you say, The Queen there? You know, and that's something like she she stepped back and she goes, Yeah, that makes sense. I wouldn't say the Queen Elizabeth there, or she's the queen there. You would actually reference the country. And so you know, those I know it's it's a small reference, but it's still a really important one. Then the other thing I came across in that project is balancing grief, reality and still not be too disempowering in the language that we used. That was a really kind of fine line to, to walk on in producing that series. And then the other one is the target audience challenge. So the Guardian made it clear that we were targeting and we were the audience was the UK, Australia, Global North. So it was a challenge for me in that some of the things in the issues that I took for granted that I know that Pacific Islanders would understand, had to be explained in a way that a Londoner would understand. And then the final one is, you know, being the story while reporting on the story when it comes to climate change. Pacific Islander, you are part of the story. And so that's always been an interesting line to kind of tread carefully so that it doesn't become so much about self but it becomes about the islands that we report on. So, I wanted to touch briefly on this because of the important work that the the institute is doing in bringing together all of your perspectives, the global fellows and the amazing research that takes place at the institute. There still continues to be a limited number of specific journalists involved in climate journalists. Research. When climate journalism research is conducted about Pacific islands, Pacific journalists are not invited to participate generally, or Pacific experts.

Climate change, journalists and research so done by Australian and British academics tend to be condescending and make broad generalizations not founded on realities on the ground. So a good example is about a few years ago Monash University in in Australia did the study, noting that Pacific journalists rely on politicians are not scientists for climate stories. So this is really a flawed finding, because most of the scientists in the Pacific actually work for government. So they are their scientists, but sometimes their politicians and also insinuated that specific journalists had a choice. Because often on the islands we're from, we actually don't have climate scientists. So to have a finding like that, not informed by the realities of numbers, at the situation on the ground is the exact reason why it should be you know, these types of research should also involve journalists from those countries. Um, those are 2020 study by Oxford University on Pacific Island coverage of climate change, which claimed to be the first study of its type. I found actually fascinating I didn't know about it. I was actually tagged on Twitter by a few people. From the UK and a few researchers from the Caribbean, saying, didn't you do the first study in 2010 on this issue? And I said, Oh, yes, I did. But obviously, I'm not from the UK, so maybe it didn't count. So you know, and, of course, I'm being sarcastic here. But, you know, that's a challenge that I'm sure a lot of us have, coming from developing countries, doing genuinely good research on our own industry, and not being recognized because, you know, we didn't affiliate it with a well known researcher or a well known journalist, so I wanted to touch on that because it's, it's valid. And then you have like representation in climate journalism initiative. I'm sure you've heard of covering climate now. Media and climate change observatory in the US, and currently, which is the meteorology and climate news service. And then, of course, the Oxford climate journalism network, to some initial reflections here. The Oxford one is actually the only one that has a one a woman to a brown person as part of this leadership, and you can see her on the screen. And it was really important for me to have this slide here because for the first three initiatives at the top here, it's all led by white men.

Either way, I think all of them are Americans. And so the perspective is always slanted to the west. It's always slanted to the global north. So it's really important not just for the Pacific, but for developing country, journalists to also have a space within climate journalism initiatives so that our perspectives continue to be taken into account when issues related to the challenges of reporting and climate are considered. So I'm really grateful to the Institute for and Mira for initiating the the Oxford climate journalism network because it's, it is actually one of the first networks of its type that's truly inclusive in nature and from a credible and well respected Institute. So I'm really excited to be a part of it and looking forward to more to come from the network. So some final tip. Overall, just a reflection on all of these issues that I brought up. Is one if you're going to do work on climate journalism, if you're going to, to research or do stories about the Pacific involve Pacific journalists, there's so many Pacific journalists who would love to help you out. You can find them online through social media. There's really no excuse anymore, not to like branch out to steer clear of the disempowering language so words such as tiny disappearing, vanishing, all of those not necessary, you can still use good language, typical language that you will use anywhere else. So a good go to would be would I say this about a country occupied by white people? Would I say this about a continent? And if the answer is no, then don't say it, then find alternative language. Three, understand the nuances is the nuances if you and this is something I always find very interesting about Western journalists, is their confidence to go into a place of strong cultural history and reporting on it like just any other place, when there's so much richness in language and culture, that it could inform a story better, so I would highly recommend those who do cover climate in the Pacific to really understand the nuances of politics when it comes to climate change in the Pacific. Fourth, we don't look at climate change the same way that Western journalists do. We actually like really find. We always find Pacific Islanders find humor in a lot of situations. So like we could be suffering from a cyclone, and we'll still find a way to laugh about it. And I know that's not the narrative that The New York Times would want to appear on their front pages because it doesn't add up to the grief aspect of you know, climate change. So but we do when we cover and when we talk about climate change in our circles, it is fun, there's some stuff that's quite a bit diplomatically incorrect in many circles. And then the last one is, you know, let Pacific Islanders tell their story, straight from the source. You know, it doesn't have to be an expert sitting in Germany that could tell the story of the Pacific because there are people in the Pacific that could tell their own stories and this is the last one I'm going to leave up here for a minute. This is up and coming climate journalist and more His name is Mark. And these are some of his stories. I messaged him and I said I'm going to feature you at Oxford. So this is one of the greatest moments in Psalm one climate journalism. So I just wanted to like my, my young colleague here who's decided to take climate journalism because he feels it's an important thing for the Pacific. And for someone we want to encourage that and yes, me right he will be a member of the network. And that's it from me. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Serral. Thank you that was utterly brilliant. And yes, and the quick plug for the Oxford climate journalism Network. Thank you so much for mentioning it and we are taking applications from all journalists. I want to say I'm not just climate journalist, but health, politics, transport, sport, whatever beat you cover, do look a second free to join network. We do want journalists from around the world. So please, do join the deadline is Monday. On your talk, it was brilliant. So thank you covered Absolutely. Everything I would hope you'd cover and I've written we are not tiny in big capital letters across my notebook because that's a very short woman from a very small island myself to small islands Blanca and the United Kingdom. I completely empathize. And on a side note about diversity I was at the COP Summit, as you rightly pointed out, and we held an event on Friday night and it was very striking. There was tables and stools that we were meant to perch on. And I can't put on the stools I have to climb up there my legs. If you look at the photos, my co founder Wolfgang cloud was very tall in German is sitting at ease against the stool and I'm stood there because I can't get up on the stool. So if you have an international summit, assume that most people aren't six foot tall or hilarious.

Sorry, I totally empathize.

And one thing I did was we got lots of questions from our journalist fellows in the seminar room and also from the audience online. But one thing I wanted to start with was, at the beginning, you raised the story of your incredible mother, who was so active in this field so long ago. Could you talk a little bit about where you see the issue of gender and climate change because we had a day of gender at COP 26 And it puts it focused on two things. It focused on this idea of women as natural custodians of the earth, and having a different approach and then a kind of more feminist approach. That said, we're just saying essentially, the patriarchy is destroying the planet and that's what we need to change. And I'd be very interested to know what your perspective on these two things are.

Yeah, it's gender and climate is an area that really needs more attention from the media. I think it's something that that really requires more work also. From developing country media. So I co founded women in climate change in more which really brought together so as a climate journalist, I did that but brought together politicians, private sector, ATO workers, so across the board, what I found was I didn't need to look for women. I just needed to invite the heads of these specific things, and they just happen to be women. And that's telling, you know, statistics because women are leading in climate change. Women are leading in negotiations, women are leading in the science in policymaking in community and grassroots. So, capturing that in respect to the work on climate change, it's really important. And you know, I learned that from my mom and this is back in the 80s. This woman founded the Dinges indigenous Conservation Society, and that is common throughout developing countries. And so it's just a matter of capturing it under UN f triple C when the Gender Action Plan was approved another CG cup which was in Bonn, I think this was 2017. That was a really a game changer in terms of integrating gender into the work of unit Triple C, but also how countries report on their work in integrating gender into adaptation and mitigation. On the ground. So I think it's really important work and I'd love to see more research on it.

Thank you. And one more question for me for our jumped to the audience. And you mentioned the grass skirts issue, the idea of the fact that colleagues who are doing important work on the on the UNFCCC and elsewhere are not getting the attention the profiles cannot be grabbed skirts. Again at COP there was quite some focus on indigenous communities and land right defenders, especially crucially in on Saturday, the kind of climate protests happened outside the venue and it did strike me that the approach was very much to come in traditional dress and speak on the platform in traditional dress and it made perfect sense in many ways. It's it's very visual and it grabs people's attention and also very clearly identifies who you are and why you are there. On the other hand, it plays into a certain other ring where when everyone from everywhere else in the world is in basically jeans and heavy sweaters against a Scottish rain. And you know, and a small group of people have to be in their traditional outfit. So John being blunt cut out for the Glaswegian weather in November to kind of make that point

you know, there's a there's a fine line right? And usually in advocacy outside of COP of the cops, you will find indigenous representatives and advocates come in traditional where and I think that is the space that is there. Right All right, coming out on traditional wear, no matter where, whether it be the blistering winds of Copenhagen. You know they'll still appear will come in skirts and flowers and what have you. But I think what I was referencing was how do Western gender journalists then frame the narrative on on Pacific Islanders, and it really needs to go away from from that approach of, okay, their queens, you know, cute women in grass skirts that's going to disappear. So that really needs to change. But what I really you know that you mentioned this and I think it's a really, really important point. The involvement of indigenous communities in the cop it's actually not indigenous communities are not well represented, nor are they well integrated into the cop. You know, the UN f triple C, the cop did pass indigenous representation that delegations had to have an indigenous representative as part of their delegation. You don't really see them in the room, but you see them on the side events. So is that true representation or is it just merely you know rubber stamping and making it look like that? And I've been in in you know, cops where someone walks in, achieved walks in full regalia, and they look out of place, like you said, but I think it's sad that our indigenous communities are seen as the other when they do walk into global spaces. Just another anecdote on this. A few Pacific Island negotiators intentionally wear suits to blend so that they are not perceived as the others. So it's something that we realize ourselves, so I don't wear a flower. I don't make myself look any different when I go into negotiations because there is a certain stereotype that comes with it, which when you want to do the work, you know, you don't really want that to impact the work. Otherwise, you're having to fight that narrative while still trying to do the work. So it's entrenched. The marginalization of indigenous communities is entrenched in the unit, un F, Triple C, and it's something that definitely needs to change.

And it also just highlights how many more layers of complexity people have certain people have to go through before they're even seen never been given a face at the table.

Certainly.

Thank you very much. I'm going to go to some of the journalist fellows questions now and in particular, one from Claudia from Guatemala, about audience prioritization. So you talked about the podcast with The Guardian and who are the target audiences? So how, how do you really do this? You know, how do you look manage audience prioritization? And do you have a single audience focus that you tried to maintain or do you try to do it on a case by case basis?

So for me, I don't really have a choice. I just go with what the editors say. And we all know that the Guardian really targets the British audience and the global north audience. So it's just a matter of balancing. You know, so there's some issues that I don't really want to dumb down too much. I don't really want to use that term. But so to have to like explain concepts that Pacific Islanders understand very well. You know, it was that was an additional challenge was some of the things that we took for granted. I then had to kind of explain a bit deeper, because I knew that I was speaking to this was aimed at someone who would not really know. So I hope that answers your question.

Thank you. And the second question from her from still from Target is about political pressures, because climate reporting is very polarized in many parts of the world, and you've spent a lot of time in the US where it's very, very credibly polarized. Have you felt any kind of pressure when reporting reporting on climate and you know, have you come in have you basically clashed with anyone's political, political interests?

Well, yes. But just on the homefront, we've had, you know, I've had ministers in the past fill up my editor in chief and publisher, you know, to discourage me from reporting on the impact of climate change because it made our country look bad. So really, it's fortunately for us in the Pacific, not such a contentious issue. We don't really have climate deniers, and it's not so much a political issue as it is a lived reality issue. So that's something I don't really have to to deal with. But knowing and seeing the political pressures that Western journalists have to face, especially in the US, it's been quite fascinating, that it's such a political issue for them to cover. So for myself, I've had a lot of pressure internally to try and minimize the, the impact aspect of the climate crisis on islands. But otherwise, it's been fairly a safe area to cover.

That That in itself is really interesting and worth looking into more deeply. We'll talk to you about that. Question from mirage. He's reporting from Kashmir and talk about India and Delhi. That's news laundry. Could you give some examples of some of the empowering language in the Pacific islands that you would like to see used as opposed to disempowering language that you've given some examples of

Sure. So the use of the word resilience is something that really needs to be highlighted. So like building the resilience. There's this classic narrative that Pacific climate warriors are using which is we are fighting not drowning. So avoiding the use of words such as drowning and thinking, so writing, resilience writing, and I think the the, the issue is not so much using empowering language as it is just stating the issue of the do. So instead of disappearing, it is an existential crisis instead of drowning it as sea level rise. So just stating the issue of fact, and not in in the lenses where there is the victim. For Pacific Islanders,

and coastal clouds, a Austrian fellow who has been covered cut for a long time, and he's been caught 2122 and 23. How would you explain the mainstream media's focus on climate change in the last two years from your perspective, I'm interested in this as well because I've seen lots of different viewpoints of what what cop has become about and and be really know what you how you see it, and especially the role of activists, partly Greta Thunberg, but also young activists elsewhere. And we have lots of research at the Reuters Institute that shows that a lot of people's climate change consumption amongst younger people is driven by influencers and celebrities and activist. And so from your perspective as both kind of an insider and outsider to this world, what do you see?

Well, you know, the last year of Trump presidency was very interesting in terms of climate coverage. Because of the denialism aspect. From my viewpoint of the coverage of climate change in the past two years, it's definitely needed that liberty to attract coverage. And it needed a white celebrity too. So there have been a lot of young advocates from the Pacific from Africa region from Asia region, who have been advocating for the rights of indigenous communities in climate crisis, but it's never really received the same level of coverage that Greta has. Now. And this is not to discredit because I think the role that Greta has played in climate coverage in the past two years has been extraordinary. This girl has single handedly raised the profile of climate change. As a news topic. In so many communities, you know, in even in, in the Pacific community, she is, you know, known everyone knows her name, and I think the fact that she's from she's European and used part of the privilege to raise the profile of the issue was really important. And the great thing about her work is that she really credits indigenous advocates in her work as well. It's not about her, it's about the issue itself. So I've seen a lot the coverage in the past two years has really been focused on the role of high emitting countries, responsible corporate responsibility, and I've really enjoyed that that part of the coverage. But I really feel like the missing piece here is what is ahead in terms of negotiation, realistically, who is blocking negotiations, and will anything come out of the cops moving forward? I really feel there should be better and more in depth analysis of those issues. There are some in The Economist defender of some really amazing work on that. But there's definitely should be more

who is blocking the negotiations.

We're having a journalism soap, right? Yes.

Just curious.

From the Pacific region, Australia is one of the kind of like you know, you have that uncle who comes to the party and says that you know, they love you but actually turns around and does really atrocious things to you as a family member, that's Australia. So in terms of blockage in the Pacific region, Australia is is a key part. Of that. You know, they are responsible for extraordinary amounts of emissions compared to the big islands put together and they refuse to own up to it and to actually deliver on what they promise.

Thank you. Think back to journalism a colleague in Georgia, he got ruined in Pakistan about digital media platforms in their in again the research have shown kind of in the digital news report shows that television is by far the most important vehicle globally for how people still receive climate change news and then the digital space and print is relatively unimportant. What is most important for you which which platforms do you use the most and again, in some our and in the communities you work with, where where do they get most of their news from?

So, in some worthy if you want to. So newsprint is still very popular newspapers, and that combined with online media, so a lot of the news is received through social media. So newspapers and TV and radio use social media to push the content. CV is still the most popular so I agree, CB radio and then newspapers, but in terms of like influence, newspapers still tend to be the the medium that has the most influence. So I personally use online media because that's easier. And that's the way of the world. I don't really like television, because then I have some book pretty well speaking and thinking at the same time. Time for that. I really enjoyed the podcasting space. And that's something that's really growing. Some of the reason why we don't get a lot of coverage in the Pacific on TV, is due to the low bandwidth. It's really hard to kind of send good footage across so that some of the challenges we have in ensuring that we have good footage off the Pacific when climate change is covered on TV.

Thank you. Can I ask a bit more about podcasting with TP from Finland who's doing their entire project on podcasting? And what were the goals and how did the what do you think the listeners gained from listening to it? And also, how's it doing? Do you have a sense of numbers and reach and engagement? Oh, yes. So

I don't have the numbers. But it's doing really, really well. I've have like right now on average since we aired is air there's a word for podcasts as we release it. I've been receiving messages from people all over the world on social media and emails reaching out to tell this story but also to share their reflections of how they thought of the podcast series. So it's been well received. The Guardian, really our team at The Guardian are really impressed by how it's been received. The numbers are good. That's what I've been told. The numbers are good it's been a great experience. And I think as a medium to tell more in depth stories of climate change. I think it's an excellent way to do it. I've received a lot of good feedback in the US because apparently podcasting is a big thing in the US. I didn't really know that. But it's a lot more intimate. So the stories can be told in a lot more personal manner. Yeah, so those are my reflections overall it went really well.

Thank you look out for it more as well and see how it develops over time and especially if there's an uptick after, after the kind Yeah, definitely. And you touched on this just now on impact. And this question from Gideon Sarpong. In in Ghana, but he said he's in the seminar room, but he's journalists from Ghana. Give specific examples of how some of your work has in resulted in direct action from governments. And do you think that do you think kind of policy change? What do you define as impact in your reporting and your work?

policy change? policy changes is a key one I've definitely seen shifts in approaches to being transparent about the work that government is doing and climate change. That's certainly something that I've seen the impact of my work. Some of my broader broader environmental journalism work just received really good reviews and also accepted by governments in the Pacific in terms of like the development and how they move forward on environmental development. One of the stories I did back in 2007 on development, tourism development that was done in an area that was quite prone to storm surges and sea level rise. You know, that story itself led to actually the burning down with my office, but it also leads to more awareness of environmental impact assessments. So EIA are now publicly available and more accessible to journalists to experts, because it took me five years to get my hands on the EIA for that particular project. Yeah, it's the tourists sorry,

you can't mention the burning down of your office.

So I did this in three point investigation on the on a tourism development that involved was a multi million dollar tourism development. And the EIA and the social impact assessment clearly outlined that it would be a flooded, it's a flood zone, and that the manmade island that they created would get it would actually harm the communities around it in cyclone season. And there were quite a lot of politicians and very wealthy people involved in the in the, the project itself. And so I ran the two parts and then the night before the third part was supposed to be published, which included a name, my office burned down the newspaper that I worked for at the time that I was editing for was actually burned to the ground. So I never did get to publish. My my laptop was in the building when it burned down. But that's like that's the reality of reporting on environment in the Pacific. In Fiji. There's been some cases of Fijian journalists also being threatened as a result of their reporting on on environmental issues and environmental impact. So it is, as I'm sure a lot of environmental journalists go through it is fraught with some of these threats. But overall reporting on climate change in the Pacific has, you know, has done has elevated the issue of the true existential nature of the crisis on our islands.

Thank you. But no one was ever charged or arrested or you're not gonna sense what happened?

No.

I've had this conversation with you for just the last minutes about what you know what journalists in the in the Pacific region need from the international community. And you said we were very well trained. We now I don't think you were when your paper was published in in 2009 2010. But I think in the intervening years, there's been a lot of kind of training given and you talk about your office being burnt down and you talk about not being seen in the room. So in that count, you know, not being recognized, you know, have not your work seen international committee, what do you say you need from the international community right now for the international media houses right now?

Sure. There's a lot of I think what what specific journalists need, especially up and coming one is exposure, exposure and opportunities to report on broader issues that include the Pacific from a global perspective. And I think this is the one in the need of every, you know, developing country journalist is to have the opportunity to report from the cop, you know, to report from the convention meeting to rub shoulders with experts in Oxford, you know, to interview experts around the world. So what I feel Sivaganga journalists need is access to expertise that could strengthen our stories. access to opportunities for coverage, whether that be meetings or events, but have some sort of resourcing that assists the journalists. We're actually overtrained when it comes to climate journalism. That's partly my fault. So we've received on an annual basis something like 1015 trainings with specific region on climate change, and environmental reporting. Like you said, in 2010, when I was at Reuters, this wasn't so much the case. But since some of the work that we did, a lot of the attention came to the Pacific once into news came into the Pacific kind of like that was a game changer. And that required like two years of me harassing the earth journalism network and telling them that we exist before they came into training in the Pacific. And once they did that was concerted effort by other by other agencies to also train with the picture and so really, what we need is exposure. You know, access to expertise, and perhaps broadening the skill sets of specific journalists, both in context we really small media industry and even smaller newsrooms. So opportunities for advancement within the industry is very, very limited. Like no one really makes it up to editor position because it's all owned by four or five people in one island. And it's just not an option. So we're having some opportunities for Pacific journalists to feature their work globally, would be you know, in itself a really valuable opportunity and of course, peer to peer learning, and network with other like minded journalists from around the world.

Thank you and two questions. One very kind of practical one, which is from the audience from Lauren Belkin, what what local organizations and specific specially run by Pacifica people would you recommend that people follow and crucially donate to this kind of organizations focused on climate journalism and activism? You can also tell me later we can send it around in our newsletter

show so we do have nationally focused national association so if you if you like if you want to support toma there is National Association of Journalists in Tomah or Fiji. It's usually best to support the National Associations because they know what the local journalists need in Tommo. We have a somewhat alliance of media practitioners for development. And so that also includes like camera operators and producers. And the reason why it's good to invest in that type of organization is because it's cross sexual in nature. So we also train camera you know, camera crew on how to take like the best footage when you're out in the field. So I would recommend that you do look at National Association. There are some regional organization. But if you're from an organization that wants to support journalism in the Pacific region, reach out to the big journalists and see what they need and then initiate trainings or information sharing session. There's so many opportunity

Great, thank you. And then last first question, I'm going to combine two questions from journalists fellows from Tom who's a documentary maker from the Netherlands and Mirage who we've spoken to before from India, about climate change reporting in your countries, tawny saying if I was going to come to the Pacific Islands next year, and rang me up and said What should I be reporting on what what do you want story you want to get out there? What would you what would your answer be? And then mirages system again, what aspects of how climate change is impacting Samoa, the region is being missed by the Western media at the moment.

Sure, so first of all, if you come to someone, don't take anything warm, because you're gonna be really hot. What should you report on the greatest threat to our community in terms of climate change, is the impact on fisheries. So a lot of our communities depend on fisheries for our livelihood and subsistence. And that is not really well covered. I would say you go out to a village, talk to the fisherman who hasn't been able to make a good catch for two years. Talk to him about how 10 years ago he was able to go out for one hour and get enough for the week, versus now where he has to go back every three hours to try and get a catch. So those are like the direct impacts that need better coverage. And also how women who rely on the ocean for their families also are impacted and how that's impacting education, and like the standard of living for children. So the second question Mira, I

kind of Italy kind of kind of answered it, which is, how does what are the specific climate impacts in Samoa and what aspects of these impacts have been missed? Western media generally missed or glided over.

So the frequency of cyclones is a major one for us. And more and the impact of those cyclones on the national economy, but also on the livelihoods of people. So when a cyclone hits, it basically wipes out all of the bananas and that takes a long time to come back. So people then have to find alternative food sources. So it's like food security is a major one. And a very interesting impact that I didn't realize until recently when I experienced it myself was landslides. landslides are not really common in Samoa and the recent cyclones have caused massive landslides across summer. So I think looking at what are some of the measures in place and what some of what are some of the examples from other countries in dealing with landslides. And food security as a result of the more extreme weather events and frequent cyclones.

Thank you. There's a lot to unpack there and we will continue this conversation but Stroud, it's been a real, real honor to have you with us. Thank you for taking the time. Especially this incredibly busy week.

Well, thank you so much, Meera, and thank you so much to the fellows. I love that when you ask a question that you say the name of the country and you've already mentioned like seven different countries, and that's the beauty of the institute is the fact that you have these amazing journalists and experts from their own countries, you know, take part in this. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to present today.

Thank you. Thank you and goodbye. Take care. Thank you