Dr. Sinhala prasad was working as a paediatric doctor at Croydon university hospital when I met her a couple of years ago in the a&e department. But little did I know she was studying acupuncture behind the scenes, to prepare herself to lead them to leave the medical profession and open a holistic clinic, which she is about to do. Welcome Dr. Sinhala.
Hi, thank you for having me do it slowly, sweetie.
Well, it is lovely to speak to you. Because I always love to speak to other doctors who leave the medical leave the medical profession, especially when they leave to do another health based career, which is exactly your background Denise experience, I just want to launch in by asking, you know, why did you make the switch?
Where do we begin? So, yeah, so maybe I should just talk about my kind of background in my career so far. So I joined Corydon when I was an f1 f2. And that's where we met in my ad rotation at the end of f2. And I found myself volunteering to go to the paediatric ad department quite a lot. And I just found that I was like, actually, all right. And at that point, I hadn't found anything in the adult rotations that are done word had that feeling of fulfilment, or, or I've made a difference. I'm sure I did in some shape or form with the rest of my team members, but I didn't have that feeling. And treating children was the first time where I felt like, you know, I've done something, even if it's just laying a pitch for parents kind of fears, or, you know, making them feel a little bit better or giving you a little high five, you know, something it helped and also in the more serious situations, you act quickly and things things get better. But with with paediatric, it's also a very emotional job. And overall, I was quite lucky. I just had those. I mean, you know, from working in Croydon, when things go bad, they go by very quickly with the patient. They turn up very unwell at the door, lots of lots of time. And when you don't get the outcome you want, especially I think in paediatrics it's, it's difficult. And I've always said I'm a bit soft. And with my paediatric colleagues, you can see some of them are really built for it because they do have, I don't like the word resilient, but they do have that in them. And they can process things and kind of get on with the shift. Whereas I felt that it would stay with me for a very long time. And even now, I still think about those losses, and it doesn't leave you that kind of thing. And so I was just starting to think, you know, what, what else is out there for me where I can feel I can make a difference. But it's not taking such an emotional toll on me. And also, you know, there's all this gripes that medics have in general with rotors and that kind of thing that was there too. But in paediatrics, I was willing to look past that because of that satisfaction of treating treating them. But it was that emotional aspect that was kind of just weighing heavy on me. And so during, so I took an f3 year where I did my trust squared job in Munich, it's just to get a bit more experience. And that's when I was starting to look at other things. And I wanted to stay in healthcare. For me that was important. Number one, so I could use the some of the training that I worked so hard for. It's it's no mean feat with doing six years. BSC, the medical degree and then I had started also doing my post grad exams in paediatrics as well. So I wanted something where, or that experience that you build up of just speaking to people and speaking to patients and having that manner with them, I wanted to use that. But also just use my brain in a slightly different way. And so my family's from Kerala in South India. So, I was already kind of familiar with Ayurvedic medicine. So, I did look into that a little bit of what actually you know what, I'm kind of familiar with that already. I want to learn something that's like, brand new to me. And my mum had had some acupuncture when I was a teenager, and she'd also had some I remember like distinctly smelling these Chinese medicine herbs in her house that she had a few because of quite strong smelling as well. about Chinese medicine, and that kind of looked into a bit more on the philosophy behind it. And the main thing that spoke to me was this idea of holistic medicine. And I think it's a term that is used quite a lot in our maybe people, it's maybe lost a little bit of meaning for people. But it is that idea of thinking of Mind, Body Spirit. And Chinese medicine has has that kind of view of, if you can, if you can liken it to Western medicine of homeostasis, that idea of balance, everything is imbalanced. And when something is out of balance, or just off, then you work to to regain that balance. And acupuncture is a thing that does that. There are different modalities that we can talk about, as well. But one of the main things that acupuncture does is, is regain that balance. And so the next decision I decided, okay, acupuncture is a thing that I'm wanting to look into, what course do I do, and the leg discovered, there are actually a couple of versions of acupuncture. So it's a really long answer, a couple of versions of acupuncture that are around so there's traditional Chinese medical acupuncture, and there's Western medical acupuncture. and Western medical acupuncture is the route that actually lots of medics do take when they want to learn it. And it's run by society called the British Medical Association of Acupuncture. And I'd looked into that, and they do sort of one year diploma is weekend courses, foundation courses. But from for me, I felt, I just wanted to learn about Chinese medicine Electress a little bit deeper, and how to diagnose and Chinese medicine, which is what then Western medical acupuncture courses don't necessarily do this, they teach about points. So you have x Western medical condition, condition, and you'll learn the points that can help with that. But what I wanted was to be able to see your patient, think about what their Chinese medicine diagnosis would be, and then look at the points that would be appropriate for them. So having that skill of knowing what the West medicine diagnosis meant, but also knowing it what it meant in Chinese medicine, which can be very different things.
Tell me more. Tell me more about that. Why was that important to you?
For me, it was important, I think maybe just from the nature of who I am like, there's a joke in my family that I'm slightly addicted to learning and studying. I'm not good at many things. But I do like learning and studying. So I was just naturally curious like that. So these points that I've been taught and protocols. But where did they come from? How did they come about? And what do they mean? And if that, and there is a huge amount of value, I think and thinking about a Western diagnosis, from a from a completely different angle. And something that's kind of a philosophy noted in Chinese medicine is the root and branches of a disease. It's called the bn and BL. So there's something that's deep rooted. What What was that first domino that led to the disease process, and the branches or the bow, or these are the symptoms that may come up on the surface? And what I think Chinese medicine does really well, which I think maybe Western medicine doesn't focus on as much is that being the route going back? And so a patient can come in, for example, with musculoskeletal pain. So you'll be out is treating the pain, acute pain, but what led to that deficiency for them to be prone to that kind of pain? It could have been that they just had an accident, fine. But what meant that they took longer to recover? Or how can you help their recovery by boosting their foundation their constitution or makes them them? And so it's a whole really poetic and philosophical way of thinking about a person and not a disease. And that's the that's the satisfaction I'm getting from learning this philosophy.
Really? Wow, what I'm really hearing there is that, I guess the moral Western approach, even when applied in acupuncture, may focus on alleviating symptoms. When diagnosed, via the Western modality is applied, looking at the symptom and using the points to alleviate that symptom, but learning it more traditionally, actually totally transforms how you view the symptoms. And then actually how you treat the patient no longer becomes an exercise of treating symptoms. It come becomes an exercise of deeply knowing the person and supporting them and their constitution to come back into balance to manage, I guess, their person their life, symptoms will follow.
Yeah, it's about it's, it's about prevention more than reaction. And I think, unfortunately, with with what we have at the NHS at the moment, a lot of it is reaction, because you just don't have that time GPS don't have that time they've working so hard aren't made to sit in those 10 minutes, that firefighting. And you know, that they're still saving lives. And that's important to know, like Western medicine has its place, it is essential. And you can't, for me, can't have one without the other, I don't think. And I also say I was lucky in the sense that I had the opportunity and time to because of course I did was a three year diploma two days a week, during term time. And the, the BMS course is, I think, a little bit more approachable for medics, because he can kind of fit it in with your job a bit more. So I was lucky in the sense that I had the savings to pay for that course. And I had, I was looking like during my three or four years, so I had a bit more flexibility. So that's what allowed me really the opportunity to go down that route. But yeah, either way, is about that kind of concept of deeper work. And I saw your posts recently by that woman that you saw Nene, where you you had that feeling like something deeper is going on, you can't you just can't fix what she means right now. And that when you're you've got the board of patients, and you need to keep going. So that really resonated with me as well.
Yeah, and I think actually, it's not even just because of a lack of time, that we can't approach the root cause of something, it's just not inherent within the system itself, like we are. It is designed to be a reactionary system. So we are waiting for disease pathologies to emerge. And then we treat. And that's what how the Western paradigm, as we practice it, is set up to do. So that's really what we're doing. We're really a disease care system, where we're managing the diseases once they've arrived, you know, we're working, you know, if someone has high blood pressure, then we manage it. Yeah, if they, when they have a heart attack, then we manage it. The whole system is set up to do that. And I totally agree, I think we need we need a balance of both because we need interventions when the diseases emerge. However, how much could we prevent, I think, in the last conference that I went to keep banging on about this conference by phone is so impactful, that IPM it was 74% of all diseases are preventable. There's an enormous, you know, as a norm as an enormous disease burden that we are inheriting that we may be able to intervene with way before they emerge wouldn't only benefit the patients themselves, and sure the whole system, but also, you know, how people felt inherently felt, you know, more vital, more vibrant, able to go and live really full and fulfilling lives, because they were feeling in balance, you know, a wonderful feeling that I think once we've experienced, it allows us, you know, great freedom in our lives to to, to pursue work we love to give to give to our families to overflow. So I think, yeah, we're missing an enormous trick in that, or is it about even framing it as we're missing a trick, it's perhaps just that by only focusing on the western paradigm as the only paradigm that exists? I think it's just important to recognise there are other health paradigms that we could use support on work alongside collaborate with, to, you know, see our place and play to their strengths.
We have these, these principles that they're 1000s of years old, whether it's Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, they've been around for millennia. So I think, you know, there'd be some element of hubris to say, Oh, actually, we don't let's not look at that at all. And, you know, there is that thing maybe that some maybe some medics have Oh, it's not evidence based, it's not evidence based and well, actually, but, but it works, you know, that you get you do get results. And I think maybe you make it. So what Miss Western medical acupuncture does, it doesn't make it slightly more palatable for the kind of western perspective by putting it into RCTs. Or framing it into that kind of scientific community. But actually, you're never going to see the full beauty of Chinese medicine by putting into that box, because it just doesn't work that way. But I do appreciate that there's an effort there. And anything that can be done to get it out there into the community have been great. But it's, it's when you appreciate that, that wisdom, that's there, that ancient wisdom that said, and I think that's when you really unlock its, its its power. And as medics, we just don't have that language do we're not taught that language in medical school or our foundation trained to think, you know, there's a certain kind of stigma by saying alternative medicine like, but actually, it's just, it's, it's truly complimentary. It's not just alternative, it's meant to complement. So it's just, we shifting that perspective.
And I would even challenge it to be complimentary. I mean, it can be a primary health care system that somebody chooses over the Western system. And there's nothing to say that that is inferior, but I completely agree with you that there is a stigma around the world word alternative, that we have to be really careful. And I've been so conscious of, of, of using because it carries feels very loaded. It just isn't true. It's not an alternative. It's it's, it's their first choice is, you know, so. So I love that you've gone into it from a more philosophical and deeper gaze, and I guess it positions you in a really wonderful way to be able to compare, hold both the Western diagnostic kind of process, as well as the Chinese and I guess that puts you in such an interesting position. Tell me, which kind of I know that you're, you're you're excited to start clinic? What kind of conditions do you feel lend themselves to? Chinese approach?
So I mean, this is a great question, because the the short answer would be like nearly anything. But what what's important is an aspect of Chinese medicine, which I really love is that it's personalised. So a patient can come with, with any condition, say, for example, rheumatoid arthritis. So what their main complaint will be is pain stiffness. So from a Chinese medicine perspective, what I will think about is okay, so that they'll be out of the branches, or this is there pain, I'm going to use needles to alleviate that pain, short term and long term over a course of sessions. But what I'm going to look at is, like I mentioned earlier, what the Chinese medicine diagnosis is. And so what we do is we take a really thorough history, and we look at etiological factors that may have led to that, and that starts from childhood, and even starts from the constitution of what their parents had. So there's something called gene which is your essence. And that's something you inherit from your, from your parents called pre heavenly chi, which is a lovely way of thinking of it. And so that could influence a pet patients constitution, for example. So you could pretty much take any condition and think, Well, what's the root cause of this? And how can I balance that pathology, the pathology of chi, and imbalance it again, I should explain chi, what we think about when we say chi is it's another term for energy. And everything is Chi, tangible, non tangible, and the physiology of of chi is that it should be free flowing any direction, it should be free flowing. And when you get a disease, the pathology is that that flow of cheese going in the wrong direction, or it's stuck, essentially, that's the very, very basic way of explaining it. And so any disease process, when you think about it in a western medicine sense, and then translate it to Chinese medicine, there's a pathology of that kind of cheese. There's also yin and yang, which is another principle that we think about, which you may be familiar with that symbol. Again, it's down to balance. What I'm what I saw. So we did, we did a year a student clinic in our last year of college. And what I saw was mental health was actually a huge beneficiary for with acupuncture, stress, anxiety, immune disorders, depression, having that course of acupuncture really helps. And again, what's really lovely about Chinese medicine, it's holistic. And part of our consultation process is giving something called Yong Chun, which is lifestyle advice. And so what we've learned in our course is a bit about dietary advice. So it's, it's a little bit different with how Western medicine views, dietary advice. So for example, in Chinese medicine, we love warming cooked foods. So someone will say I have a really healthy diet, salads, lots of veggies, you know, I have a nice cold smoothie in the morning. And in Chinese medicine also. Because that is a thing that will stagnate your chi cold things stagnate your chi or having something that's raw means your digestion is working harder to process it. So you're depleting your chi. So there's a different way of giving even lifestyle advice. But mental health is one of those things where it is very complex and multi layered. And so they may well be on medication, which is great, they can continue that. But it's about thinking about those deeper things that have contributed to that. Something that I'm particularly interested in as well is women's health, and also paediatric acupuncture, which is relatively new women's health in particular. So acupuncture is already quite well established in the fertility world. A lot of private fertility clinics will have an in house acupuncturist that complements the kind of period beforehand where you're having lots and lots of injections to regulate your cycles. And even afterwards, as well with implantation and maintain symptoms from pregnancy as well. So there's there's essentially, where there's where there's a situation where patients thinking, there is a medicine I could take for this, but I want to avoid the medicine, or actually, I don't want to rely on it as much, then you can think okay, well, is acupuncture, something that can help. And paediatric acupuncture is something I'm really, really looking forward to getting into this a bit more, I'm going to do be doing another one year diploma in that next year. It's just another one. But I've already kind of looked into it a little bit. And it's, it's amazing what it can do. There's a really lovely clinic in Oxford, called The Little acupuncture room, run by Rebecca Eva, and he's like the leading acupuncturist and paediatrics. And it's a form of a multi bed I'm not sure if you've heard of that before. It's a it's a really brilliant thing, actually a concept for low low scale payments for acupuncture to make it a bit more accessible. So essentially, it's a room where more than one patient is being treated at a time sort of in tandem. And they have this little multi bed for children in Oxford and I went and saw it last year. And the youngest one This one was six years old and the oldest son 16. And they came in for different things. So constipation, eczema, anxiety, and just lovely it's just the little kids were so so okay with the needles I thought they're not screaming their heads off because you know, when Amy when we're trying to bleed the patient or the report, three people report are down. But actually because the needles are so so thin and acupuncture and with children then any retained for like a minute or so because the cheese so reactive, they don't need a lot of time. It's just in and out. So it's really it was really lovely to see that being used in a paediatric setting as well. And they loved it. They really enjoyed it.
I mean, that was one of my questions. I was going to ask you later. So glad you've brought this up. You know, what is the scope with using acupuncture in children knowing that you love working with children and it's amazing to hear that it's being used and is really well tolerated? And is accessible? Yeah, I using these multi bed multipath clinics? Yes, yeah.
So adults have them as well. It's something that I'd love to do in the future, is have a paediatric multi bed down south, because as far as I'm aware, the only one that exists for paediatrics is in Oxford. So patients are travelling so far long distances for that so I'd love to have one down south in the future once I get my clinic established but and then it does make it more accessible as well. Because I guess with alternative means of medicine, there is a certain level of not elitism, but what's the word just, you do have to have a sort of spare income to access it as well. So I think your long term goal is doing that definitely the future in the multiverse setting.
I love hearing that because as I see, like accessibility to these so called alternative therapies, it's something that we all have to consider if we're going to work in this space. Because it can be a real barrier for for some people. And I just want to remind anyone listening, remind them of Oracle and sage. So, Sage are an organisation who pay for alternative healing modalities through a subscription model.
You mentioned a post, yes, yeah,
yeah, I just want to remind people, that this is a way in which some people are being funded to receive healing modalities, which they otherwise may not be able to access. Yeah. So just want to put a little reminder in for our sort of, I'll put a note in this in this podcast episode in the show notes, I donate one pound 11 a week, but you can donate as little as one point 11 a month. And all of that money goes into a pot, which then supports the funding of a treatment bundle for someone who otherwise couldn't access that. And I actually refer to patient that I saw in a&e Three weeks ago, who I thought just could really benefit from them. And it was really nice to know that I could offer her something. Because as you say, finances are a barrier, especially know when, when all of our processes feel a little bit tighter. So I had a question from the BBC that put out on to my stories. Yesterday, this morning, and sort of the questions are twofold. First of all, the first question was, why does acupuncture work for some people? For others? Can you answer that?
Yeah, so there's a few things. So the first thing is patients constitution just might not be not might not be compatible with it. People are different, and no one size fits all. And so for some people, maybe sort of their mind, body spirit isn't aligning the way where actually their body is going to be receptive to this modality. And that's, it's a really unique way of thinking that actually, not every not, it's not going to work for everyone, but it is it's true. And, and I think something that we have, we do make a point of and that was taught to us in college, this idea of contracting. So when you see a patient at the end, at the end of the consultation, you give them an idea of how many sessions they need. Or you might think they need, you always make sure you have a kind of midpoint review, where you say is this working? Is this is this making a difference. And sometimes it's the case of time, patients just need a bit longer, because there's lots of factors that you're working with, or I kind of read deep rooted. Sometimes you you're having to maybe switch up your diagnosis and revisit your diagnosis a little bit and revise the points that you're using. Sometimes it's it might be the patient themselves in terms of not making changes themselves. It's a very collaborative process. And acupuncture is not just a case of me sticking to me doesn't saying off you go like that, again, share that lifestyle by some mentioned, super important, so it's about the patient wanting to make a change as well. And sometimes it's just not the right time for them in their life to do that. And that's okay, they can come back at another time. Sometimes it can be the practitioner. So that's hard to not take personally sometimes, but actually, they could go to someone else and find that they react really well to the acupuncture, and the therapeutic effect or the practitioner holds a lot of weight in, in that patient's outcome. It's true so that that how they communicate with you, how you communicate with them, how you're able to kind of delve into what's going on with them. That will will make a difference. And it's the same with our work in western medicine, right like when your how you approach a patient massively then dictates what they give you in terms of the information and asbestos especially true in paediatrics. So there's a there's lots of reasons why may not work for someone. And to be fair, so far, I haven't had any patients and student clinics that I was in that said, this is not working for me at all. Touchwood. But, again, it can just be a case of time, but there just may be the odd person here. And because I actually, you know, what, it's giving it a go. And I just don't think it's me. And that's okay, as well.
I love that really honest answer. And I was about to see, I mean, you've captured already there, it's across the board, you know, the practitioner element of A is across the board in any healing modality, the the doctor patient relationship, is an entity in itself. And also the, the the quality of the practitioner is really important, just as it wouldn't be in western medicine. outcomes will be different. If you go to perhaps the top surgeon in the land, as opposed to someone in training, that decision makes sense. Yeah. And so yeah, I think there can be
I think there can be the temptation to sort of, if she was under the impression that, you know, oh, acupuncture, it can work for anyone. But I guess also, like some medications, we know, in western medicine, that there is a number of patients that are needed to treat in order for even one person to have an effect. So it also works in the same way, for some reason. The Constitution of the body is just not metabolising is not absorbing is not reacting in unexpected way. Because we are all different and so individual. Yeah. And so I guess well, actually, I want to ask the question, are there side effects? Because I guess, in western medicine, if you take the medicine medication, and it's not producing a desired outcome, the risk of that is that they have undesirable outcomes, called side effects. And, you know, really, it's it's, it's, it's doing them a detriment, side effects from acupuncture. Is that possible? If you can you? Can you balance them too much the other way?
Yes. So, in short, yes, you can. Needles are powerful, although they look inconspicuous, because they're so thin. How you use them, how you manipulate the needles, particularly the points that you use, they can have an effect on a patient. And if you're, so we look at patients constitution, and there's something that we do in Chinese medicine, looking at the tongue in the pulse to help our diagnostic process and also just observing the patient observation is a huge thing in Chinese medicine. And what you're thinking about is, what can they can handle in terms of the needle. So there'll be a patient that might come in where this is a classic one where they're working crazy hours, like medical, possibly, crazy hours, poor diet, not looking after themselves, and they are depleted, their chi is just right at the bottom. And so if I was to go in on the first consultation, first treatment, and, and stick, you know, 14 needles, and then which is maybe a standard number of needles, I could wipe them out, they could leave that that treatment, just feeling like I'm just Wheezy and tired and just completely dead, like just zapped. So what I have to be careful with is thinking, Okay, I'm gonna start off slowly. See how they react to these needles, if it makes things worse, if it's constantly assessing it, basically, and tailoring it to that patient. Likewise, there are some patients who actually need more, and they need a bit more manipulation of the needles, they need more needles, or they need their diagnosis adjusting slightly. The main thing that I see in terms of what we consider side effects is patients feeling a bit spaced out when they leave, they just kind of feel a bit, it sees them but they just kind of feel a bit like sometimes it's a bit lightheaded. But we always advise patients to make sure that so it's a bit before they come in, just to help with that. And also the technique of needling itself. There are safe ways to needle and there are unsafe way so you don't just as in western medicine, there are safe ways to do procedures and unsafe ways. And so if you follow the kind of preset procedure, in terms of making sure you're clean, you're using a clean field. You're disposing of needles in a safe way, you're placing them in Safeway. So for example, I think there was this story last year, it was publicised quite a lot where one of the female football players had acupuncture from a physio, I think they did some dry needling. And she ended up getting a small pneumothorax because it was over her ribcage. Yeah. And that should that shouldn't be happening, because there are safe ways to, to learn. And I'm not blaming that video in any way like, these things happen, as in western medicine, mistakes happen. But if you are approaching in the safest possible manner, and you're using the techniques that you're taught, then you should avoid those really serious consequences. But in general, the side effects are very minimal. To be honest, if if you're listening to your patient, and you're kind of being sensible, then it's minimal.
Hmm. That's good to know. And also, it's good to know that a treatment plan is outlined at the beginning. And there's a review process because I, I guess, as we talked about before, the financial implications of a never ending programme that's not being assessed to work can be a bit daunting for a lot of patients to consider. And so, so that feels important. Yeah. There's another question from from the community, which was, you know, I guess a more personal question really speaks to how, how you feel having made the shift yourself, and also how, how people in your life have reacted to you leaving the medical profession and moving into something else, particularly acupuncture, which, as we've talked about before, is, you know, alternative, perhaps seen as woowoo to some people? So how has the process of making such a big life transition career transition? What's the impact it's had on you and others? And how has that impacted you?
Yeah. So starting with me, I think it was one of those things where there is that, that sense of agony, where you're kind of pushing and pulling, and you think of all the hard work you've put in, and how the family supported you, which my family very much have. And, you know, it's, it's a risk, it's a big risk. And, you know, I've not given up my training number yet, I've just an hour of programme kind of pause on it. And because I've just, I'm just like, oh, I can't, I can't quite let go. And I'm gonna definitely still keep my GMC number, my licence. Because I just, I don't want to fully close the door on it. And nothing in this world is permanent, right? Like I could, in a couple years time think I'll actually know what I'm just itching to calculate someone today. I just need to see a patient in the hospital, you know, that might happen. In the same way that, you know, five years ago, I wouldn't have thought that I would be doing something completely, completely different. So. And that's very different from me as a person, because I'm someone that plans and sticks to that plan. I don't deviate. So when I came into my three or four years where I didn't, there wasn't a thing that I was chasing after. That was really unnerving and unsettling. But I'm having I'm forcing myself to find that that's actually new. A new normal for me now is actually just being a little bit more flexible, which my family would absolutely love that if they heard because I am, you know, that type a like, let's, let's do this, and this and this and this. So yeah. So I mean, I've still got my training on my back pocket. And what was important to me was doing my post grad exams. And I don't mean, I don't know really, exactly, I think I wanted that knowledge. Again, just because I'm one of those people I want to know as much as I can know, at this stage. And I think it's something maybe my parents instilled in me as well, as you know, the first generation immigrants is having those qualifications under your belt, and just kind of, you know, I've got that now, no one can take it from me kind of thing. There is that sense there of having that. And, you know, I'm proud that I've done that, and I've achieved and I've got that kind of security there. But yeah, it's one of those things where I have to think about in 10 years time, what where do I want to be what do I want my life to look like? And the way it was going With paediatric because I just I interviewed last week who said I'll just do community paediatrics as if that's an easy option. And it's not an easier option. And they work extremely hard as well. Or lots of people say, you know, do GP with a paediatric specialty and like, or no, that's not an easy option, either. Because, again, that's an extremely difficult field to work in. So there were all these kind of things that people were suggesting as intermediates. And I was like, Well, no, I just want to, I just want to do what I want to do and not compromise. So I guess that's how internally, I kind of found that. That comfort in that I've, you know, I've got my GMC licence and registration. Still, I've got my training number for now. And I may give it up in the future. But I've got this whole other qualification that I can pursue, that I'm lucky enough to pursue and fortunate to pursue. And I can come back to medicine if I want to the choices there. And I'm so privileged and lucky to have that choice. So it's just being grateful for that, really, in terms of like, beyond me, friends, family work colleagues, is there's different kinds of variations. So I've mentioned my family already, and my parents, I think, obviously, there's an expectation that I will, you know, reach my potential in paediatric medicine. And we haven't had like, a full on conversation about, you know, me leaving medicine is kind of like, what my dad said is, you know, you must take risks, that he came to this country not being able to take risks yet to take the jobs that he was given. And get on with it basically, and not pursue things that would be he personally wants to perceive for the sake of providing for his family. And so both my mom and dad have worked really hard to give me the opportunity to actually say, you know, what, I'm gonna take this risk, and I'm incredibly blessed to have their safety net of having them to fall back back on as emotional support. So I think they're, they're proud of me, no matter what I do, I can really lucky in that sense, they might have to address to slightly as a bit about what I'm, what I'm going to be in 10 years time. I think if they see me being happy and fulfilled and healthy. That's, that's what every parent wants. Right? So I think that's, that's, that's what I'm kind of thinking will happen, is happening. And my brother and my cousins, they're already super supportive, and none of them are in the medical field. So they're like, Yeah, this is really cool. Like, go for it. And, and all my friends are non medics as well, actually from school. So they're like, Wow, this is this is great. In terms of work colleagues, actually, the reaction has been surprisingly like quite nice. I say surprisingly, like it shouldn't be, but it, it has been nice. My paediatric colleagues in particular, so made a really great group of friends from my trust, great job in neonates back in 2019. And there they will, to me, they're all superheroes all still in training. They're, they're all registered voters now. and Sr reg is a registrar Association has a feel for following, let's see doctors. And I can see in them. What I can't necessarily see myself maybe is that it's just that persistent drive to take all the bad stuff, and know that the good stuff outweighs it that in a way that I just wasn't quite able to do. Not that there was a deficiency on my part, but you know, everyone is different. And when I hear them talking about work, I'm just in awe of them. Like they're superheroes to me. And anyone who works in the niches is a superhero to me, but they work so hard, and they're they're just really, really supportive of me taking this new venture as well. Say the only time where I face a little bit of scepticism was I think I mentioned it to consultant one time that I was kind of I was doing this course on the side and they just had been raised eyebrow, really? And I was like, yeah, not quite okay. And they didn't ask any more think more. But that there was the raised eyebrow was noted. I think I'm lucky in the sense that they swore scepticism or cynicism and to be fair, I think and I faced it I just say well, I'm doing what's right for me and and it's a really, it's a really interesting area of medicine. That's that really, you know, there's a thing I think people need mixed feel, who do other other means of medicine is that they have to justify, or like sell it as like, well no, no, this lots of people reuses is 1000s of years old? No, there's not a million RCTs and peer reviewed journals about it, but it does the job so that that's enough, you know?
It seems like you kind of feel really confident in the decision that you've made. And still the need to justify to the sceptics says that you just don't really want to waste your energy on because yeah, like worth it,
I can talk I can teach you about it, I can talk to educate you about it. And if you weren't interested, come along, but if you're not interested, that's fine. That's okay. Like, each to their own. You know, I think that's really important to respect people have their own preferences.
And what would you say to someone who I guess has taken the leap to leave the medical profession? What would you say to any healthcare professional, any doctor listening to this? Who is? Who has a sort of niggle, who's sort of thinking, but you know, is finding, it's finding them sort of trapped in the indecision or in the agony of, of, yeah, the consideration of leaving, like, such a such profession behind what would you say to them?
I guess I'm talking to myself, in a certain sense, as well, it's, it's what what makes you happy. And I'm not talking in a sense of, you know, waking up, and that sunshine and lollipops, and it because every job has its downside, right? Like, I'm going to something where I'm going to be self employed. If I don't work, I don't get paid. I'm going to have to constantly work to recruit patients, I'm not just going to get my nice NHS slip, pay slip, I don't really understand into my account anymore. I'm gonna have to set aside my pen, there's gonna be lots of downsides. But it's that thing of what makes you inside feel like, you know what I've just, I've just done something good with my day. And there were lots of days in medicine, where I just felt like I hadn't, I've been, I've been working really hard, like, I've been running around like a headless chicken and not the head Milou break and had a 10 minute lunch break. And I've given them given given, but I felt I had felt empty at the end of the day. Whereas the difference I felt when I was in college, the student clinic was, I actually felt repeated at the end of a clinic, like I felt for that in, in my spirit. And a part of that is that you get to spend a whole hour with a patient, which is like, amazing. But you there is that real transaction of chi between the patient and the practitioner, like what you're giving to them and what they're giving to you. And it just hit me in a different way. And so, I mean, I guess it's, you're not going to find the answer to that, like, overnight. It's, it's a case of work, right? And just really thinking like, what is it that's, that's going to meet me, even with all the even over all the cons or the negatives, what's going to make me keep striving and keep moving forward, and I just, I'd lost, I'd run out of steam with that with medicine, like I just had reached my limit with that. And so, for different and the circumstances that you're in as well, I think it's really important, like, not everyone, as I said, has the opportunity to have the time to take off and think what works, what's actually make gonna make me happy. I was fortunate and I was able, I was able to pick up loads of local shifts and earn a little bit more money. Whilst having that flexibility. I'm still I'm still living with my parents, you know, that I was not paying them as much rent. So financially, that I think that's a huge factor, actually, for a lot of medics who are looking to leave is there's that thing of financial instability, and the cost of living, etc. Like, it's just a bit more difficult now to say, actually, you know what, I'm just not going to work for a little while and think about something else and study, but had the luxury of studying for two days a week. So I'd say for anyone who is thinking about that, just kind of think about those finances, because it is a very real thing like have have enough savings. You don't want to be in a position where you're kind of scrambling for your mortgage or your rent each month. There's a certain case of thinking ahead. And being practical in that sense. Like it's not all just about dreaming about what makes you happy. Like there is reality as well. But yeah, I think it is just that thing of that guilt isn't like that. Six years of studying. Plus the T as a foundation training plus all the money I've spent on my postcard qualifications like what you are so what is it all For, but it's appreciating that value that you have gained from all those experiences and all that time. Like with my course, for example, I had the capacity to learn and study and do exams, because I've been doing that for since I was 18 years old and then longer interacting with patients that, you know, when you not I was myself and those an osteopath, in my class, were the only health professionals in our cohort. And you can see for people who are from a non health care background, is a completely different skill set that you're having to learn with speaking to patients and that manner that you use. And so I already had, it was fortunate that I already had a little bit of that. And I wasn't nervous at all speaking to new people or speaking to patients, and finding out more from them. And so I think there's a there's something we have to recognise is that we are, we are more than what our degrees are on paper, we are more than what our role is in the NHS. And I'm very grateful that I've had that training. And like I said, I am going to keep the door open. But there's so much we can take from that that makes us more than Dr. Prasad, you know that there's more to to us than that. So I think it's just finding that your identity again, outside of that it's really important.
Yeah, we are more than our role within the NHS, I think, yeah, I think we often do over identify so much, and then see, can't see who we are and who we could be and who we actually want to be beyond that, because that's been, what we've striven for, for such a long time. So I guess it's really encouraging to hear from someone who has taken that step that there is an identity that you can create beyond beyond your roles in the NHS. And I just want to say, you know, I know you're very, you're speaking very humbly and you're very, the opportunities that you've had and also just, you know, you've worked very hard for no one, no one gets through six year medical degree intercalates does postgraduate exams, works on the front line. No one does that. No one No one does that for nothing. So you know, although you you're grateful for the opportunities and the privilege that's allowed you in education like that. You've also worked very hard to achieve it as well.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Exactly. So, Dr. Prasad, tell me your opening your opening a clinic. Tell me about this clinic where can people find it when in your doors what kind of patients would you love to
so I'm gonna have a couple of locations. So I'm recording go through through born and bred so I've got a couple of rooms that I'll be renting in South Croydon, Sanderstead. And then I'll have another room in Kentish town is really lovely. practitioner hub record will mean Women's Health run by a lovely lady called Anna. And she is a therapist by background as well. And she opened a venue near Camden Town where lots of other female practitioners are working. And it's a really lovely environment. And she also has a scheme actually where women can access treatments through subsidised fund as well, which I really, really loved. Made me really keen to work there as well. So I'll be splitting my time across both locations in the Kentish town location, it will be moving to women's health, but also paediatrics primarily. And also did a course in facial enhancement acupuncture, which is a new thing happening at the moment. Yeah, and it's basically cosmetic acupuncture. So women who aren't maybe wanting to go down the route of Botox or might want to rely on Botox less, or just want to try something new. You have a course of facial acupuncture that kind of gives you that glow, basically. Yeah, I know. It does look quite scary, because there's lots of needles use but they're very, very, very small. So I'll be doing that there. And then in South Korea, and I'll be seeing anything and everything because well, you're doing the facial stuff there too. I'd be having different kind of demographics, I guess across both locations, but what I'm wanting to do is kind of cast my net as wide as possible in terms of the patients I see. And what I've been told is you kind of naturally attract the patients that you end up kind of wanting to learn more about anyway. And I think obviously with my background paediatrics will be one of those things. Women's Health so did their BSN reproductive medicine, so I'm super interested in that and But you know, we're also the bread and butter of like musculoskeletal pain super satisfying to treat. And this really fun machine that I use. Have you heard of electroacupuncture? No, sounds scary, but it's not a promise. So it's this machine like little box, and you connect some leads from the machine to the needles that are inserted into the person. And they emit pulses, basically, that so the needles kind of move a bit more vigorously when they're in the person. So rather than me manipulating needle myself by moving it in and out, the machine kind of wiggles it around for me. And I've seen amazing results with that within Elektra. And it's just really fun to use as well. And the patients at first, like, what are you doing, but actually, some of them really, really love it. Again, not for everyone, but it's something cool as well. So I'm just super excited to see what I can do with this kind of modality of medicine. I'm so excited to learn more as well. There's always like other CPDs I can do and just to really deepen my knowledge and respect of the modality I can't wait.
Amazing, I can feel the passion, I can feel the passion, and how can people find you to get in touch? Yes.
So I've got my Instagram page. So that's SP dot acupuncture, and my website is wwe.sp acupuncture.org. So that will have all my booking details on it for me and women's health booking systems on their website. So I can send you that link as well. But for coding locations, the booking will be by on my website. And my email is similar p acu@gmail.com. I can give that to you as well. So if anyone was email me and ask them questions, or they can DM me on Instagram, I'm more than happy to answer any more questions as well.
Amazing, I'll put all of that in the show notes. And they just want to thank you for coming and sharing such an informative I guess, Introduction to acupuncture. Through a Western practitioners eyes is always so much more accessible, I think, to understand it from someone who has perspective from both sides, or what you're bringing to the world is still valuable. And I'm really grateful you have followed that nickel and sought fulfilment and taking that brave leap. So thank you so much. And thank you for coming on here and sharing it with me and my audience really appreciate it.
I know thank you, dude. So thank you as well for having this new forum and platform where where medics and non medics can kind of see all these different sides of our health and how we see ourselves in the world. So it's really valuable to have people like you who are kind of, you know, making that really known and available people and so really, really appreciate that you have this forum as well, and it's made me feel kind of less alone as
I am so glad to hear that. Yep, absolutely. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate that. All right.
