You're listening to cubicle to CEO episode 194. Today's case study is a masterclass in audience growth and retention for any content creator to pay extra attention if you're a fellow podcaster. Les Alfred, podcast host and founder of balanced black girl joins us on the mic to divulge the juicy details behind her podcast meteoric rise from 70,000 to now 350,000 monthly downloads and impressive 5x growth in just one year. Bounced black girl is an online wellness community and podcast focused on mind body health habits spacious productivity, financial wellness and self care, amassing more than 7 million downloads and 1500 5 star reviews since the show's launch in 2018. Les is a podcasting powerhouse who prefers sustainable strategies for listener growth over quick hacks. She'll be sharing how she keeps listeners coming back week after week, her weekly content plan for creating highly shareable social media posts to promote each episode and how she activates listeners to put into practice what they hear on her show.
Welcome to cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On this show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes. Subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday
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Hello friends welcome back to the show. I am thrilled to have Les Alfred here with us today. I first met Les, very briefly, it was like on Instagram Live, she joined us as our featured Norby creator for February. So I was just blown away. Even in that first meeting together. I was like, I know I have to bring her on to our show. So Les, I'm so glad you could make time. Welcome.
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I mean, I am a cubicle to CEO listener, I think I found your podcast about a year ago and have been listening since so I'm really excited to be here.
Wow, I am so honored. I actually didn't know that too. So thank you. And I wanted to bring you on specifically, well, for two reasons. One, as a fellow podcaster, I selfishly am always curious and wanting to learn from other podcasters, what's working in this space. But also, I think, your approach to podcast growth, which is what our conversation is going to be centered on today. I love that what you believe major show grow is so rooted in the actual quality of the content rather than these, like, oh, here are these quick like hacks for how you get more downloads, you know, and I think that tends to be the conversation in this space when people talk about increasing your downloads. So anyways, I won't spoil it. But I do want to start first before we get into that with your own cubicle to CEO story. So what was the catalyst for you jumping full time into entrepreneurship for yourself?
Yeah, so actually, what's funny is that I still am doing this as a side hustle. So really, I'm still wearing both hats, which is just its own crazy adventure. But I got started as a content creator back in 2014 actually started off as a blogger, because I feel like you know, back a decade ago, that's kind of what everyone was doing. I was really deep into my own wellness journey and love talking about wellness, I was obsessed with reading other blogs. And I was like, I have a communications background. I'm a personal trainer, I know a lot about wellness, I could blog like, These people aren't writing anything that I don't know. And so I started my first blog in 2014, and really jumped into the content creator world and have continued to kind of evolve with it since then, because it's changed a lot. But by about 2018, I started getting pretty burned out of what I was doing. It was a lot of fitness content, workouts, videos, recipes, things of that nature. And I decided to take some time off. And when I took time off, I was getting messages from my audience. And they were like, hey, Les, I know you're taking time off. But when you're not posting, I don't see other women of color posting in my feed. Like you're the only person who's talking about wellness, who looks like me. So I'll be glad when you come back. And seeing those messages. I was like, I think there's a need here. I think my audience wants to connect with other women of color in wellness, so that they can connect and see that they have like interests with people who understand them and who understand them culturally. So it was when I had the idea to start my podcast in 2018 and have been going with that ever since.
Wow. Well, you were kind of early in the game. I mean, granted, podcasting has obviously been around for much longer than 2018. But even in 2018, I still feel like it hadn't quite hit the level of normality for lack of a better word that it is today where so many people are used to listening to podcasts. So that's really cool to hear that you were early to the game. Also, funny story. I don't know if I've actually ever shared this. But my first entry into like the content creation space post college was actually creating a fitness blog, like Ellenyin.com used to be like a health and fitness blog, which is so funny, because I was the world's worst blogger. Like I think I made a total of three posts. I've been like properly disappeared. But hey, we all start somewhere. So I have to ask, though, I think you're the first guest on our show, who's currently in real time still been working full time while while, you know, building this business. So I would love to know, given the immense success of balanced black girl and your podcast in your whole brand. What is keeping you in your day job in you know, still continuing this as a side hustle?
That's a really great question. And I'll also say I feel like so many of us who are online now got pulled in via the wellness space like 10 years ago. So yeah, just had to say it was like it got all of us. We were all a part of it at one time. I would say the biggest thing is right now my current, while my real only source of revenue is brand partnerships between brand partnerships on social media and brand partnerships on the podcast. And financially that's been great. Like I do make good money from doing that. But there is a part of me that is uncomfortable with that being my sole source of revenue, even if I'm bringing in really good revenue, because I feel like I would then be less selective with the brands that I work with. And I'm kind of at the mercy of what brands are willing to give me and so I like not fully relying on that to maintain my lifestyle versus if I were to go full time with that being my own A source of revenue, I think I would probably have to be a little bit less selective to make ends meet. And so until I map out some other revenue sources, I feel more comfortable continuing to work.
That makes complete sense. Having options does allow for selectivity. Like you mentioned, do you feel that for you it, it would have to look like having diversification in your income streams for a balanced black girl? Or do you feel it would more be centered around reaching a certain revenue milestone, at which point you would feel like, okay, even if I didn't diversify beyond brand partnerships, I would still feel comfortable moving forward with this full time?
That's a great question. I think I could go either way, I think while I'm still kind of on the side of being a bit of a smaller creator and have smaller deals, I wouldn't feel comfortable going full time with brand partnerships. I think if I can get to a point where I'm maybe getting bigger deals and have fewer deals with a select brands and have really like in line annual partnerships, and that is a bulk of the revenue is coming from I would feel a lot more comfortable. But right now, it's like I have to do more deals to earn more money. And that feels like a slippery slope.
Absolutely. And of course, everything is relative in this world, right. And it's funny, you consider yourself a small creator, because I think for many of our listeners, your stats are very impressive. I mean it since 2018, balanced black girl has generated more than 7 million downloads. I mean, that is a an accomplishment that very few shows ever crossover. So huge, huge congratulations to you there. And then I think as of when I checked this morning, you have more than 1500 5 star reviews. So just absolutely incredible what you have built over these last number of years. And that brings us perfectly into our case study today, which is all about how a you were able to achieve that from like a lifetime perspective, but also specifically how within the course of one year, your monthly downloads increased from 70,000 downloads a month to averaging 350,000 downloads a month. So let's maybe peak into the micro first and then expand to the macro. At the time when that jump happened from 70,000 downloads to 350,000 downloads. Was that a true hockey stick, like jump? Or did you really see that as a tiny gradual movement towards you know the difference?
Yeah, so the year that happened was 2021. And so those steps are the difference from January of 2021 when I had 70,000 downloads that month to January 2022, when I crossed 350,000 downloads that month. And I would say for probably the first half of it, it was really gradual. It was a gradual, like slowly increasing listenership. And in the summer of 2021, which was when I really started implementing some changes and how I produced the show, it started to take off, and it became a bit more of a quick increase. So it was kind of both.
Yes, super interesting. I can kind of relate to that. Because even on our own show, when we really started to see that more exponential growth was also ironically in the summertime, and also due in part to a lot of changes we made to the content. For those listeners who are not familiar with your podcast, which I'm sure we have a lot of people listening who are regular listeners and fans, but just for those who are not familiar with you, can you set the scene for us in terms of your podcast? What is the frequency that you are producing it? Is it a weekly episode? Is it a season based podcast? Are you mostly solo shows? Are you mostly doing guest interviews just set the stage for a little bit more context before we get into the numbers?
Definitely. So actually, during that time, I had been doing a bi weekly cadence. So from I want to say the fall of 2019 until the summer of 2021. I was releasing an episode every other week. Now it is weekly and it's continuous. So it's not seasons, it's just constant content straight through. And I would say my show is about 60% interview 40% so low. It started off as being a really interview heavy show because the premise was I wanted to interview black women in wellness to spotlight them and connect my audience to other women and wellness they could follow but a lot of the feedback I was getting from my listeners is they're like okay, I liked the interviews and I like being introduced to these people, but I love the solo episodes. So can you do more of those so I slowly started incorporating more solos.
I'm curious how did you gather that feedback from your listenership? Was that something you directly ask people through a survey? Was it just kind of anecdotally collected through various DMS throughout the years?
It was both Yeah. So I for the first three years of the podcast, I would do an annual survey where I would ask people what topics do you like what episode is your favorite? How did you find the show? What would you like to see more of and usually the overwhelming response Once Was I liked the interviews, I love the solos. Also, in a lot of reviews for the podcasts, that's been a lot of the consensus. There's people saying I love the solos and then also in DMS and direct feedback, people have said it as well.
An annual survey that is so brilliant. How do you disseminate that survey? Is that something you send out to your list? Is it something that you share on the podcast and direct people to a link? Is it social, all of the above? How are you getting people to fill out that survey?
Yep, it had been all of the above, primarily through my email list, I would send it outside of a weekly newsletter. So I would send it out, have it open for a few weeks and put it link directly in the newsletter, I would have it in the show notes for the same amount of time. And I would do a little bit of sharing on social. But I also do have quite a bit of an audience who follows me just for social and so it, I think there probably were some responses in there that may not have been fully relevant if they just like to follow me, but didn't listen to the show. So I would say, my email list and putting it in the show notes was a more reliable distribution channel.
That's really interesting insight. I know that the bulk of our conversation today is going to be focused more on content strategy. So one last add on question before we get there. I'm just curious, in all these years of doing the annual surveys, what has been the number one Discovery Channel for people to become new listeners of your show? Where are they finding you from?
Yeah, this has been super interesting. So the first I think two times I did the survey, it was Instagram, I have kind of a method for Instagram content that has a good mix of content related to the podcast, and then content that's designed to be shared to get basically on the feeds of people who don't follow so that they're familiar with balanced black girl. So the first two years that was the most common, then word of mouth actually became most common. So for a lot of people, they were saying my friend sent this to me, or it was recommended by someone I know. Or it was either recommended in the list of other podcasts that I listened to. Oh, very cool. Okay.
I feel like that's when you know, you've really made it is when your audience starts to be your evangelists for your brand. And it's no longer just you talking about this is why you should listen to my show, right? So that's incredible. I'm so happy for you to hear that. Beyond that, of course, there's three specific things you pre show in your discussions with me privately, you feel like there's three key things that helped you get from 70,000 downloads a month to 350,000 downloads a month. The first you mentioned was implementing a series model to increase the amount of people returning week after week to listen. So walk us through what a series model is. Can you give us an example of how you're implementing that on your show?
Yeah, so I implemented the series model in the summer of 2021. And when all the growth happened, and that is like the big turning point for my show, before then, I was doing episodes about random things like every Tuesday or every other Tuesday, the topic would be either whatever pitches I got, or just whatever idea popped into my head. And so you could be listening week to week and one week we talk about nutrition. And then the next week we talk about relationships. And then the next week we talk about menstrual cycles, and it would just be like all over the place. And in the summer of 2021, I was like, Okay, what if we make this a little bit easier for people to follow? So whatever they're listening to this week, how can the conversation next week connect directly to it so that they want to come back and want to continue the conversation because of the topics are going all over the place? It's really easy for someone to say, actually, I'm not that interested this week, and then kind of forget about the show and not really come back.
So I started creating a series model where I would take a central theme or idea and I would have episodes revolve around that theme for about four to six episodes. So the very first series we did this, it was like with a little bit more of a kind of like woowoo spiritual, I think the first one was raising your vibration. And so we talked about like manifestation and astrology and things related to that. And so it was like one week we talked about human design. The next week, we talked to a manifestation coach. The next week, we talked to somebody who manifested a partner. So it was like all of these things were different, different perspectives, but there was a really common thread so that if someone was interested, they were likely to listen to that entire series. And when we implemented that, almost overnight downloads increased astronomically. That was our first month where we crossed the 100,000 downloads mark and we've never gotten the low six figure downloads ever since and it's continued to climb.
Okay, I'm so fascinated I actually if you're watching this on YouTube, I broke out my pen in the middle of talking because I was like I have so many thoughts popping in my head right now I have to jot these down. Okay, first of all, brilliant because basically, you're like leaning into the pattern behaviors that we have as human that that binge, you know content consumption behavior that we've become accustomed to, due to the nature of content these days with like streaming services, you know, Netflix will drop all of Bridgerton in one day, and then I stay up until 5am. Finish it right. So I think it's so brilliant that you're, I mean, though, you're not dropping the episodes all at once. It's almost like you're treating your podcast like a TV show where right, there's that continuation of a plotline where you want to come back over and over. But it's like doing that within continual show. So like you said, it's not a season based show. So there's no start and stop necessarily, but it's like many seasons within the broader show.
Okay, I love this. Actually, I feel like I'm going to be voxing my Podcast Producer after this way, how could we be better organized? And I just want to pull out one key thing you said. And I think this is so important, no matter what content medium your greeting through the way you thought about this, I love that you thought about it, not from the perspective of how can I get more downloads, but instead, how can I make it easier for a new listener to find the information they need, and be able to come back sooner rather than like, forget about us, because I had not thought about it until you said that just then. But you are so right that when a new person hears one episode of yours, it doesn't necessarily mean that they've instantly integrated you into their podcast rotation or their lifestyle, right? So like, you have to get them to get over that barrier, the first couple times of coming back to you.
And I know I keep relating this back to a TV show. But it's exactly like why so many people who are like, huge fans, for example, like I'll just take Gilmore Girls, because that's my favorite show, like a lot of people that I tried to get to watch gilmore girls that are like, Oh, well, I watched the pilot episode and I wasn't that into it. So I just stopped and I'm like, okay, but you have to get be like, you have to find the cadence and like, yeah, for five to six episodes. And before you really know whether or not you're gonna resonate with the show, right?
Yep, exactly. And so we're trying to kind of hook people from the beginning.
Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Okay, I want to know, when you're introducing one of these new series, do you actually record like the first episode that drops? Are you actually saying like, Hey, we're going to be doing a series on manifestation over the next six weeks, you can anticipate this? Are you giving them a preview into what to expect? Or is it just like, the episodes kind of drop in and they kind of figure it out as they're, you know, listening?
Yeah, so I do get previews of what to expect. Usually, in the episode that kicks off the series, I'll have a little bit longer of an introduction, talking about the series and just giving an overview of why we're bringing it to the podcast, because also, it's like you want people to care. Sometimes they care about a topic right off the bat. And sometimes you have to kind of help them understand why they need to care. So usually have an introduction to kind of walk them through that process. And then I also will have an outline on social where on my Instagram, I'll say, Okay, it's a new month, in April, here's what we're doing. And here are the topics we're covering to get people excited. And then also usually at the end of a series, as I'm wrapping up that final episode, I say, Okay, next week, we're kicking off our new series about XYZ. Make sure you're subscribed so that you don't miss it when it drops.
Oh, hey, that's super helpful to know, that must make coordinating guest interviews an interesting challenge, though, right? Because you basically have to map out many, many weeks in advance to make sure that you're filling the spots appropriately. But also, it's like, if you just wrapped up, let's say, a series on manifestation, and then a month later, you get this amazing pitch from someone who wants to talk about that topic. How do you navigate that? Are you saying, hey, you know, I just did a series on this, I'm not going to circle back to this for, you know, potentially another year, or what's your solution to that?
Yeah, I've pretty much had to turn to outreach only and very rarely accept pitches. And if I do accept a pitch that I do want to eventually pursue, I will say what you said, like, Hey, we're not planning to cover this right now. But I would love to follow up in the future, when we come back to this again, and I will, you know, if I've gotten a great pitch, I will circle back to somebody and say, hey, now is a better time to have you on Are you still interested. But I also do think that focusing more on outreach, as opposed to relying on pitches has also improved the quality of the show, because when I research guests who I want to have come on, I get excited about wanting to talk to them. And I think that that leads to a better episode as opposed to like, okay, this person wants to be on the show, what do I talk to them about? And so, it has been, it's required a little bit more organization and planning, but I actually think it has lent itself to improving the overall content quality.
I can see why because really, you're starting with the end in mind, like you said, it's like okay, what content is going to best serve the listener and then finding the right people to fit those roles, rather than like you said the other way around, like how do we fit our show around the guest?
So, I like to think of it as being topic dependent, not guest dependent it?
Yes, that's such a great way to distinguish that. Within a series you already mentioned you do about 60% interviews 40% solo across your whole show, but within an actual, let's say, six episode series, how are you structuring that? Is it like every other episode is a solo? Are you doing like a bunch of interviews in a row? And then you kind of recap at the end with a solo episode? How do you like to approach that?
I've done it both ways. And I've done in a number of ways depending on what the topic is, I've also done series where I've just done all solos like January, I had a series it was all about kind of resetting for the new year. And I did all of those episodes as a solo. And then I did have a guest come on for a specific segment. So I've done a mix where it's like I'm doing a solo maybe to start this series and to end it. And then we have interviews all throughout, or I have also alternated in the past, it's kind of dependent on the topic.
Here's a little hot take that I want to hear from you. How do you feel about solo episodes where there's certain shows that I've heard do this. So I don't know if you've ever tried this format, but it's like a solo episode, where throughout, you'll bring in like a guest. And it could be multiple guests. And it's just like an excerpt of a very specific kind of almost sound bite that's inserted into the solo episode to backup maybe what you're saying or to expand on what you're saying. How do you like that type of format versus a pure solo or pure guest interview style show?
I think depending on what the subject matter is, it could lead to an interesting listen, I think from a production standpoint, I have not done that. Because it seems like a lot to coordinate for very little, it's like if I'm going to coordinate all this time to like get this information from somebody or to get a sound buy, I would rather just get them on a call and record an interview. From a production standpoint, I'm like, I don't know if that sounds worthwhile of the production effort. Like I think I would, as a host prefer to if I'm going to bring somebody in bring them in for a conversation as opposed to an excerpt. But I think it could be really interesting if it were produced.
Well, yeah, no, thank you for sharing. And you make a great point. I mean, especially like you said, this is your side hustle at the moment. And so you have to be really intentional with your resources and how you're spending your time. I wanted to ask, is there any type of series that you feel like has performed exceptionally well compared to other series? And if so, what do you think was the unique marker or trait from that series that our listeners can implement? If they're podcasters?
Definitely. So the most popular series that I've had on my podcast two years running is called reframing the reset. So it's what I do as my new year's series. It's basically all about resetting for the new year, resetting our habits. In 2022, I had a mix of solo and guest episodes. And then in 2023, I did it like all solos, like I mentioned, and actually, that ended up being our biggest month for the podcast ever. I think we pulled in 560,000 downloads that month on major, I was very, very surprised. And I think the reason why that series does so well is one that timeliness. So January is a huge time for wellness content, that's when people are looking at their habits, that's when they're wanting to make changes.
I do have a background in content marketing and SEO writing. So I know how to create content that does well in search. And I also think that's been helpful for the podcast. And I know I'm sure we'll probably talk about that more. But I know what keywords to target for that time period. And it's especially good that time of year because there's so many like wellness focused keywords that you can really pinpoint. And it really goes to meet a need that the audience has, if they're at the beginning of the year. And they're like, Okay, I'm feeling unorganized. Or I'm feeling like I want to work out and I don't know how and I have an episode that speaks directly, very tangibly step by step, here's how you do that. And every week, they know they're gonna come and get very specific action items they can apply to their life. It's been really, really helpful for listenership and every year is our most successful series.
That is really cool that you've been able to establish a recurring series like that, that people can look forward to and really bring into their new year like, it's like you become a part of their routine for setting up for a new year, which I just think is incredible. And that's how legacy brands I think our bill is like when you build yourself into people's routines and habits. So that's brilliant. Since you brought up SEO, SEO is actually something that we recently, as of only January of this year of 2023 started seriously investing and we hired a copywriter to optimize all of our blog posts for SEO And then we purchased a course from Elise Armitage, which if you're a longtime listener of cubicle to SEO, if you haven't heard that episode yet, we'll make sure to drop that in the show notes. She talks all about how you can explode your website traffic with SEO, but less in terms of applying SEO to podcasting. You mentioned that timeliness, of course can impact the the number of search results. Do you always base your series choices on the timeliness of what's happening in the calendar year or in the broader news cycle? Or is that only really applicable to your reset series?
Its most applicable during reframing the reset last year, I did test it with another series. In the month of April, I did a series on maternal health because that is black maternal health week happens in April. And in the United States, we have a major black maternal health crisis was also part of the inspiration for the podcast. And so I did and series all about reproductive health that was really timed with that as a bit of a test. It didn't, it wasn't the same as reframing the reset, because there's less people searching for specific resources during that time. But it was also timely in that way. So outside of that, I usually do tend to go for topics that I think my audience will be interested in at that time, but it's not usually as seasonal as the New Year content
That makes that makes complete sense. One final question on this piece before we move on to part two. In terms of podcast titles, are you doing SEO research in how you actually name your podcast titles? Or do you not focus as much on that piece and you're more utilizing SEO to determine the topic of the episode not so much the title?
I do if I am able to find a keyword that is relevant to the topic, I will try to include it in the title. And I also do now I didn't always I had to learn this in my own professional development. But I do also now title things very simply. So I don't use inside jokes or like cutesy phrases or puns in episode titles. The titles are very straightforward so that if someone is searching for that information, there's a good likelihood that it could come up. I think sometimes the mistake that podcasters make, especially if they've been podcasting for a while, is they focus almost a little bit too much on people who already know them not to say that you shouldn't serve your current audience because you absolutely should. But if you had an inside joke that was maybe relevant in your 10th episode, and you're on your 50th episode, and someone comes to listen to that one for the first time, they're not going to know what that inside joke is. So if that's all you say, or the only way you talk, or you use maybe like a code word or something in your title that only people who have been listening the entire time would understand, you're really going to hurt your chances at growth. I've also stopped including like numbers or things like that, and the title because it's also pretty unnecessary. And it just takes up space in search. So it has helped me really simplify the way I title things to make it easier to find.
Okay, I am so glad you said this because this has been a like years long, inner debacle in within our own podcast is because from the very start, like literally episode one I've always opened the show with you know, you're listening to cable, call the CEO episode number, blah, blah, blah. And in some ways, it makes it easy. Like in the middle of conversation. If I'm referencing a certain episode, I can be like, Oh, go find episode 175. And people can like scroll to the number which makes it a little easier on Apple podcasts at least. But to your point, I also understand that numbers don't really have any broader positive impact on on search, and probably too many points of yours is not that helpful overall. So I don't know, I'm still struggling with deciding whether or not to completely revoke our use of numbers. Do you title your series though? Like if it's if you're doing that, you know, reframing the reset? Are you putting that at the start of every episode title related to that series?
I'll usually do it for the first episode, like I'll say, you know, reframing the reset systems of self care, because I think that was what the very first reframing the reset episode that we ever did was called, and then I will try to title things that are related to that overall topic. So I'll say like, reframing fitness, how to create a workout plan that works for you, or I don't remember what some of the other ones were like reframing our relationship with stuff all about decluttering for self care, so it will be clear to the listener that like, okay, these things are very similar. We're reframing different things each week. So yeah, I have like to do that in the past if it's made sense to.
Yeah, no, that's actually really smart just to bring in like one recognizable keyword into each title but not having To put the full series name at the start of every single one. Okay, thank you so much. I know I just like that was so fast, like rapid fire questions coming your way, but you answered all of them with ease and grace. Moving into number two, the content strategy that you also feel has had a large impact on your show growth. So this one is all about highly shareable content on social, I'm assuming mostly on Instagram that relates to the podcast series. So can you define for us what you consider a highly shareable piece of content?
Yeah. So I would say usually highly shareable pieces of content are things like memes, tweet, graphics, things of that nature that are really attention catching, and people immediately either laugh with or can relate to, or feel inspired by at a glance where they either immediately want to share it to their story, or immediately want to share it to their close friends. And that helps us really gain momentum. And so usually, those are what my team calls Friday posts. So on Fridays, we usually aim to share that kind of content. So it's, it's usually a little bit more lighthearted. And those have worked out pretty well for us.
That's amazing. Do you create all of your own memes? And you know, these type of posts, or are you curating from other creators and highlighting them on your page?
I would say it's a mix. I mean, we do the occasional finding, like things on Twitter to create things from and then we also do create quite a few of our own memes. Like we had one that did pretty well, this year. In the reframing the reset series, I always refer to that series because it's just always like, kind of our signature. I had done an episode about digital self care and the importance of like, digital decluttering. And then for that Friday post, I had created a meme. I think it was like a picture of Beyonce looking real sad at a laptop, and I made some joke about like, inbox zero. And so people like loved it, because it was funny, and they could relate to it. And then in the caption, it's like, well, if you want tips for actually reaching Inbox Zero, you need to listen to this week's episode. So it's like, funny and catches people's attention and is all connected.
I see. Okay, so you're using that initial hook to get people to feel quick emotion, maybe share with their friends or to their stories, like you said, and then they come back and kind of absorbed the caption and are led to a resource. Okay, so smart. I'd love that feedback loop outside of these Friday posts that are more lighthearted and meant for that quick reaction. How else are you approaching your content calendar from a weekly perspective? So your new episode, let's say it drops on Tuesday? How are you taking that top of funnel content and breaking it distilling it into shareable social content? Can you maybe like, take a recent episode and walk us through how you promoted it that week?
Yeah, definitely, I can use this week's episode as an example. So this week, I had a guest, who released a new book, which was very exciting. And she and I had a great conversation about the book. But then we also had a conversation just about like, trusting the timing of your life and navigating from your 20s to 30s, and all that good stuff that everybody loves to talk about. And so the first thing we did to promote it was we got a really good juicy clip of her saying a great gym and share that as a real video on Tuesday, as soon as the episode dropped. And then later in the week, my social media manager actually created this really beautiful kind of slideshow post. I don't wear, sell, or sell. That's the word carousel post.
That served as kind of a summary of the episode but also it was she framed it as like reminders like just in case you need to hear this. And all of the quotes were these like really beautiful tidbits that were actually pulled from the episode and the caption in the CTA was like, if these resonated with you listen to the episode. For more, it's jam packed with more tips like this. So it's kind of that one designed to get people swiping and staying in the post for longer hopefully have the post show back up in their feed. If the cover image didn't get them, Instagram will show them maybe the second image again, hopefully get their attention. So we do really like relying on carousel posts to summarize the episode. And then on Fridays, we'll usually do the shareable content. And so that flow tends to work really well for us. And then I also do always send out new episodes to my email list every week. So that's also a big driver for us.
Yeah, I can imagine. Especially because email is so clickable, right? Like, so easy to access directly the content that you're referring to. So if I'm hearing you correctly, on a weekly basis, you typically create three unique pieces of content to promote each episode one is the reel with the video talking head of the guest. The second is a carousel post of direct quotes. From the episode and the third being, of course, the lighthearted post on Friday, yes. For the carousel post, when you say it summarizes the episode. Do you mean that from the perspective of your you or you know, your brand, the brand voice synthesizing? Hey, like, here's some of our favorite things. From this week's episode. Here's like the key highlights and takeaways we want you to have, or do you kind of remove your own synthesis and perspective of the episode completely out. It's literally just like a bunch of quotes directly from the guest herself or himself.
It's usually the latter. And it's usually an interpretation of something that we learned on the podcast like another example would be last week or episode, we featured Chrissy King who's the author of The Body Liberation Project. And that book is all about the difference between body liberation and body positivity. And so the carousel posts that week was actually this is the difference between body liberation and body positivity. And my social media manager created graphics directly from our interview where our guests talked about the differences between those things. And so it's very swipeable. It's very engaging, it's very shareable. And then again, in the caption, there's that CTA of like to dive deeper into the difference between these two, make sure you listen to this week's episode.
Oh, okay. Interesting that that makes complete sense. Do you find that on those type of posts, people are sharing more about not engaging in conversation as much in terms of comments? Or do you find that it's more I guess, conversation heavy and not as shear heavy? Like, I'm just kind of curious how people engage with different types of content? You know?
Yeah, that's a good question. I think we've seen We've seen it go every which way, it kind of depends on what the content is, I would say for something like that the body liberation posts, we definitely saw more shares than specific conversation, because I don't think that there was a ton for the audience to really say, versus this week, where it was like, here are some reminders, if you need to hear them that are really designed to be like a really feel good post, we had a lot of comments around like, Thank you, I needed this, or slide three was especially helpful. And we saw a lot of shares. So a lot of it is kind of experimentation to see how the audience reacts. And we've seen kind of all of the above, depending on what it is. Right?
Do you feel that the CTA? Are you always driving people to a Lincoln bio to listen to the most recent episode? Or are you asking people to, for example, drop a specific word in the comments and then taking the, I guess, more proactive approach of directly DMing them the link? Like what have you found works better for getting people to actually take that next step of listening to the full episode from social?
Yeah, that's a great question. So I have not yet tried any specific outreach of like DMing people a link, if they comment, something specific, all of our CTAs have been Lincoln bio. And then we do have, you know, each specific post linked directly to the episode in the bio to make it easy for people to find.
So you use one of the tools where it's like the gallery of images, and each post image actually goes to a different link. Okay. Yeah, got it. Amazing. I know there's a couple different tools that can do that. I believe Metro cool, can do that. That's a tool that I've used in the past to achieve that function. What is the one that you use are using Norby to create the individual posts?
I use later for that for Later's link in bio for that particular account and Lincoln bio and then I use Norby for my link in bio for more of my like influencer related content.
No, that makes complete sense. Different different functions. Right? Exactly. Perfect. Okay, oh, my goodness, my brain, like I said, is already spinning with so much. But let's jump into number three, the last content strategy that you feel really made a difference. So this one is all about creating more content on socials and for your newsletter that you felt focused on how listeners can actually apply what they're hearing each week with you on the podcast to their own lives. Can you give us an example of how you've done this?
Yeah, definitely. This episode could just be called like the reframing the reset case study. Because that was that was the series I feel like we've done all of our best work in but with reframing the reset because especially that series was so lifestyle focused, I also designed a challenge around it so people could opt into my email list and they would receive a notion dashboard that I made with specific prompts that they could go through each week directly related to the episode so like this year, I did an episode on digital decluttering as I mentioned, and then I made this like really detailed digital decluttering checklist. So if you signed up for the reframing the reset challenge and you opted in, you got access to the notion dashboard that had the checklist to help you digitally Declutter. So it's like, not only are people listening to the podcast, but we're giving them a resource to help them actually do the thing that the podcast episode is telling them to do.
I love how interactive that is, oh, my goodness. Like, I feel like this episode, this conversation with us is really inspiring me to go back to the drawing board with our team and think about how can we make this an even better product and even better resource and really engage beyond? Like you said, people come away, of course, with their own takeaways from each episode, but really giving them the extra convenience factor of implementing right away with a tool like a checklist, just, I mean, that really goes above and beyond. Is there any other piece of content you've created, let's say specifically for the newsletter that you feel has worked well to help someone implement what they heard on the podcast?
Yeah, so I would say the newsletter is one of the pieces of content that's probably a little bit more personal than the podcast or a lot of my social media content. So often the newsletter I will have kind of my like, Editor's Note, editor, I'm doing the whole thing. Yes, I'm the editor. That will usually have like that personal kind of Editor's Note for me usually about how I'm implementing whatever that week's topic is, and how I'm mapping that out and doing X, Y z's. Because I often think that people need to see examples, like they will hear something on the podcast, and we're like, okay, great. What do I do with that? So that's where I'll take it a step further and be like, Okay, if you want to know how I do this, subscribe to the newsletter. And I will map that out for you every Wednesday related to what we're talking about on the podcast. So that's usually how I tie in the newsletter.
Oh, okay. Got it. And you're so right, I think especially because you are really the the voice or the personality there connecting with behind balanced black girl. Getting to see how you're living the lessons alongside of them probably feels really encouraging, right? And I really love that approach outside of your Editor's Note, what else do you like to include in your newsletter to support the podcast? Or is the rest of the newsletter less podcast focused, and it's really the Editor's Note that is directly connected.
Yeah, so it's a good mix of content. So I have my Editor's Note. And then I have a section specifically for the podcast, a direct link to listen to the episode. And then after that, I'll have content of the week. So those will usually be articles, videos, other podcast episodes that I'm either listening to, or watching that often do have topics related to whatever that week's episode is. So for example, in February, we did an episode about adult friendships and how friendships impact our health, which actually to date has been our most popular episode. Even though reframing the resets our most popular series, the friendship episode has, like blown everything else we did out of the water. And so that week in the newsletter, I included some links to articles that were talking more about friendships and about why it's hard to make friends. And about, actually, I think I found this article that said that for most people listening to podcast literally feels like they're having a conversation with friends, which I thought was really interesting. They might include to that in the newsletter. So I'm trying to give them like as much content as possible to support whatever it is that we're focusing on that week.
That is so interesting. Well, if you have that article, link, send it my way, because I'm very keen to read that now. And I'm not actually surprised at all that that particular episode is your most popular one today. I feel like that's a recurring question that I see just people ask, jokingly, but also seriously, like, how do we actually make friends as adults, like outside of work, or, you know, especially if you're a full time entrepreneur, and you're working at home, it can be very hard to meet people. So I'm excited to drop that episode, in particular in the shownotes. But also, of course, reframing the reset, we cannot not include that so much. Yeah, I'm sure all of you are like diving over to Les's podcast right now to listen to that theory. So anyways, all of those links will be below in the show notes. If you're curious. And we'll just link the most recent years reframing the reset series. But of course, go back and binge from episode one.
Les, this has been so massively helpful. You've given me so much inspiration ideas, just for our own shows, I just want to say thank you. And if we choose to implement any of them, which I know we will, it's just about capacity and when it actually rolls out, but as we do, I will make sure to keep you updated personally on on how that's performing. Because I I really just think the way that you approach content from this place of how do I make it easier for my people to utilize what they're learning and actually see improvements in their life. I think that's such a beautiful relationship that you've built with your listeners. And I'm just I'm so in awe of you. So thank you I really really genuinely mean that.
Thank you so much. And yes, if you do implement anything, I would love to hear how It goes, I mean, I feel like you already have such an incredible platform here. And it's already doing really, really well. So...
That means a lot. That means a ton. To wrap up our case study one last Bonus Question. I couldn't not ask this because, of course, I know anyone listening in as a podcaster always wants to know, how can I get more reviews? And it can be so hard sometimes. I mean, of course, we've all heard, you know, just make sure you ask, be consistent with the ask. But we all know I mean, I'm guilty of this myself. There are many shows that I've listened to for a long time where I love the show, I support the show. But it can be hard to get yourself to take the extra moment to leave a thoughtful review. So you've amassed more than 1500 reviews for your show. What do you think has been the single most effective way to get people to actually take the time to do that?
That's such a good question. Because I will be so honest outside of the CTA to ask people to do it every episode. That has been my main thing, you know, the first probably year or so of the show, I used to read a review of the week on the show, which was really fun at the beginning. And so I think when I first started out, that was probably a fun way to incentivize people to leave a review, because they wanted to see if there's got read on the show. And then we got to the point where it was like, I kind of got too many. And it was just a lot to sort through. And so I stopped doing it.
I have also seen other podcasters do really cool things like giveaways, where they're like, if you DM me a screenshot of your review before you post it, like you'll be entered to win a giveaway, or they will, you know, read a review and say, Hey, if you wrote that, you know, DM me for a giveaway. So those can be really helpful to really incentivize people because even I've been a podcaster for almost five years. And I still sometimes will listen to shows and forget to review because it's something that we come for the content, we get what we need, and then we leave. So I think keeping that conversation open with your audience and just reminding them that it is a really helpful way for them to support you, when people understand that they want to do it. But I think for a lot of people, they just don't know when they don't know how important reviews are. So communicating not just that you want them to review, but why you want them to review can be really helpful, because I think that's how the audience feels like they can thank you for the support that you've given them.
That's such a great perspective. No, you're so right. And it is really, I mean, the roles of podcaster and podcast listener are so symbiotic. You know, it's like one really can exist without the other. We both help each other in this process. So I love that. And thank you for being honest. It's okay that there's no like magical secret
Just podcast for a long time. Yeah...
I think I really do think consistency, especially for this medium is really what sets the greats apart from you know, the many podcasts that fall off after six months or whatnot. So, Les, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful, truly inspiring conversation. And I would love for you to tell people where they can go subscribe to your newsletter. And of course, make sure you go follow balanced black girl on Instagram and the podcast. So tell us all the places people can connect with you.
Yes, absolutely. So you can listen to new episodes of Balanced Black Girl every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcasts also soon coming to YouTube, because I also haven't haven't actually done YouTube yet. So I think by the time this episode comes out, we will be starting that soon. So that'll be really exciting. We're also on Instagram at balanced black girl podcast and LinkedIn or bio there, you can find our newsletter. And I'll also share a link with you so that you can add it to the shownotes.
Yes, please. And what's your personal Instagram too? So people can say Hi, yes.
My personal Instagram is at balanced Les. So that's where you can see me do the wellness see things if you'd like more of the wellness, lifestyle content?
Yes, we were just talking about and this is recent chemical peel revenue records. You weren't from pro tips on that. Yes, definitely go check that out perfect. So everything will be linked below. And I'm so excited that you're going to be bringing your podcast to YouTube. We did that about a year ago. And you know, it's slow growth is a small audience. But I really do think YouTube is such a powerful search engine and will only continue to grow in terms of the podcasting platform they're building out there. So I will be your first subscriber once that link was live. Let us know we'll also drop that below in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Les.
Hey, Ellen here thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoy today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode link to a friend leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or radio show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign Work click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big!
