Writing and the complexities of the Bardo of Dharma talk are described in many books. Yeah, at this point, I don't know 50 Maybe. I will highlight the salient features of the stages in terms of what the dying person and their character caretaker should know. The level of nuanced detail granularity here is is remarkable. commentaries on the Kalachakra Tantra get into these eight stages, breaking them down. I mean, it's like it's unbelievable how much granularity they bring to the stages and so we're not going to go that deeply into the weeds here. Because it's that information I think is interesting for academic scholars and in the light but not so super critical for what we're doing. With this concentrated overview, we are plunging into the depths of the Bartos teachings are as brilliant and subtle as the experiences themselves, many of us will not recognize the Bardos when we enter them. And in the same way, first exposure at the doctrinal level can be bewildering. What on earth are they talking about? And so the other thing here is the importance let's see, I'm gonna pull this Yeah, I did not have Yeah, just before we get to the stages, I'm gonna pull the book right now. Because Evan Thompson's book on this was not published when I wrote my book. And so I mean, it's right behind me. I'm gonna pull this out of him because Evan says something really helpful and interesting about the stages two seconds
Hey, Andrew. Yes, I just got a message it said that we did on page 73 Last
Oh, I hate when I'm wrong.
Okay, oh, it's all set to just give another set of auto commentary. So yes, you were right. Okay. Well, this is great. This means I can read thank you for the correction, Alyssa. This means I can read in this commentary around this immediately because I was going to wait till we got to the section. So this is a wonderful philosopher. You may have heard me referenced him before. I think he's out of used to be in Toronto. I think he's in Vancouver now, I think a British Columbia. And so in this marvelous book waking, what's it called? waking, dreaming being? Self and consciousness and neuroscience meditation and philosophy. He has a really interesting chapter on the Bardos. He was actually at this event. First time I met him was when Richie Davidson invited me to talk to all the scientists. Why What was this 15 years ago 16 with the start of their took down project, so I think I mentioned took down before this film this documentary called between two worlds. The ongoing study that Ricci is doing at the request of his holiness Dalai Lama to study this really unique post death meditative absorption thing called Duck DOM. And so Richie invited me to do a riff on it. To talk about like, what's going on. Ellen was there um, basically is kind of an attendant along with a bunch of scientists. And I really liked the guy. He's a wonderful human being deep practitioner, and a hell of a scholar. So this is what he says here. So he's talking, I'm gonna read these two paragraphs because they're so good. He's talking about the rich, complex cosmology that's depicted in the Buddhists array of teachings. And so I think this is definitely worth throwing him given this kind of symbolic and religious imagery and language, which permeates the whole Bardo cosmology, it's difficult for those of us who stand outside the Tibetan Buddhist worldview, to regard its account as a literal description of what it's supposed to be like for consciousness to continue after death. The accounted doesn't seem phenomenological in that sense. In other words, it doesn't it doesn't seem to be like hard, cold, direct experience. Instead, it seems to be what religious scholars call soteriological I love this word. This basically means soteriology means excuse me, pertaining to salvation, pertaining to liberation. But it concerns the Buddhist goal of liberation or enlightenment, and how that goal is understood within a religious context of collective ritual and symbolism. So this is the this is the highlight. It would be a mistake, however, to think that the Tibetan Buddhist account of death must be either literally true or false. This is the greatest part this is this kind of Dileep theist approach. So a little a little blinding you with philosophy here. Lee theism is this kind of approach to reality to phenomena that does not abide by traditional Aristotelian or binary yes, no black white on off there live approaches, typified in Aristotle's laws of thought, in particularly what's called the law of the excluded middle, which really says that all that it's either dead or alive. There's nothing in the middle and so we live largely in Aristotle's world and it forms unconsciously a really unhealthy way of looking at reality. This this kind of black white, yes, no deadline binary approach. The world isn't that way. And so the idea is and Bernardo writes about this magnificently in his book, meaning and absurdity. Were the best exposition for the description of paranormal phenomena outside of Jeffrey Crapo, but I've ever come across. It's really great. And so the idea here is something can be literal and mythopoetic. Something can be true and false. At the same time, depending on how you contextualize it. This is actually a much more accurate way to look at reality. I mean, just because it doesn't fit into our shrink wrapped, thinking right? Aristotelian thinking doesn't mean it can't be true. And this drives logicians, mathematicians and the like. Bonkers. Because they can't roll in a world that is so fluid and like mercurial, you can't pin it down. But it's actually much more descriptive of what's actually happening which is why then people like Jeffrey Crapo, this religious scholar out of Rice University you've heard me say this. The true or some the weirder something is, the truer it is, I think, is love that the weirder something is the truer it is right. So what even defines weirdness in that regard, like weirdness and relationship to what, what is normal? What is normal? See, ah, that's pretty darn arbitrary, right? And so this is the point here. It's a mistake to think that Tibetan Buddhist account of death must be either literally true or false. There's room for both. Instead, we can see it as a script for enacting enacted means to bring forth Evan worked quite a bit with Francesco Barella. Back he was like a protege of Francesco Varela. And so he authored co authored a seminal book with Elena rush, called the embodied mind of MIT Press. This actually kind of launched the cognitive science revolution. And so a big part of what Francesco is brilliant Chilean Chilean neuroscientists came up with was this notion of an activism. If the universe is is completely participatory, that we literally bring forth, we enact, we actually elicit bring forth a reality in a participatory manner even through the actual perception. So an activism is a major contribution and Evan was riding the coattails of Francesco from day one. Instead, we can see it as a script for enacting bringing forth eliciting certain states of consciousness as one dies in this way. It is more performative and prescriptive. Than descriptive. That's a really interesting thing to say. looked at from the outside. The Tibetan Buddhist account of death strikes me as a ritualized phenomenology. Oh, I love these terms. They just make my heart flutter phenomenology you know what that is? You're all phenomenologist whether you know it or not. phenomenology is the study of experience. ritualized phenomenology, I think that makes perhaps a little bit more sense is usually using ritual and in this case script of these Bardot's to enact these types of experiences or to suggest the dissolution meditation doesn't so much present a phenomenal phenomenological description of death and I can tell you, there would probably be 1000s and 1000s of Tibetan Buddhists and scholars who would disagree with us. Again, who what do I know what, who knows? Who knows what's right. To me, this is also what vermelha talked about so beautifully is the power of the open question. This is an open question for me. I mean, the don't know mind and Zen the wonderful ability to just say, I don't know, I can hang in that kind of agnostic space. And so this is where it's really kind of up to us. Like how literally do we take these things? Or how, symbolically how ritualized do we take them this is a really interesting discussion for me. The dissolution meditation doesn't so much present a phenomenological or descriptive or description of death as rehearse and enact a phenomenology of death is a ritual performance. But an interesting thing to say. Given the power of ritual, it stands to reason this is like one of the classic you know, you're reading a philosophical book, when they say, therefore follows or it stands to reason, right? It just just cracks me up. Every time I read one of these books, there has to be at least 50 occasions in the book, where it says therefore it follows or does not follow, or it stands to reason, right? I just get the biggest chuckle out of this. Therefore, it stands to reason that someone who spends his or whole her whole life practicing the ritual, or even just living in a culture where there are constant reminders of the ritual would experience its symbolism in a powerful and immediate way, at the time of death. Do with it what you want. I find this interjection really provocative. Be fun to sit down and debate. Some like you know, staunch supporters of the classical view. Okay, so that's my favorite preparatory set of comments for page 73. The outer dissolution. So this is going to be a little bit I'm going to be reading like a you know, a lawyer's academic riff here. This is pretty straightforward. The pattern of the outer dissolution is as follows.
Yeah, earth element dissolving into water. So remember, this overarching view was going to happen here. We're going to go from gross to subtle, the really subtle, from the most dualistic to the most non dualistic so that's the fundamental, overarching narrative. And this makes complete sense to me, in terms of my experience with meditation, and also what I've observed in people when they're dying. The earth element dissolves into water, the outer signs so there's outer inner and secret signs. Remember we talked about those? The body loses strength, one feels drained of energy. The complexion fades and power sets in the cheek. Think stains appear on the teeth. It's harder to open the eyes. Those of you who work in hospice and of care, you know, I mean, you know, check this out. The person may seem physically smaller, he or she can't get up or hold anything. can't support the head has difficulty moving. Dissolving element often spikes or is exaggerated before it fades. When the earth element spikes. One feels depressed, overwhelmed with heaviness or a sense of crushing weight on the chest. Aging, especially old age, suggests the beginning of this dissolution. The sense of sight also degenerated this first stage because that's the most dualistic of all the senses, right? And so those of you who work around dying people you may know this that sometimes something go through the signs and sometimes you'll say, oh my gosh, this is totally true. People will say I've been feeling this heavy weight over my heart and feeling the sense of like, you know, compression that's the earth element spiking before it disappears out or signs that's what we can see. In our signs. that's those are the phenomenological signs from the person die from their own side. My mind feels heavy and listless perception dims things become unclear is if there's not enough light in the room as a sign of a scandal of form. So again, this is just I'm just going to briefly mention this. This is just one of the many things that's taking place here. As we're going through the stages is each one of the five Scott does. Going from gross to subtle, is actually dissolving here. So much is happening on one level. As a sign of the Skanda a forum and dissolving the mind is agitated and Delirious then sinks into into Drowsiness is losing its sense of ground, the quality of bewilderment. Things are unclear and all that everything becomes unstable. We lose our sense of ground and feel as if our world is being swept away. As a sign of mirror like wisdom. This is the other thing that's happening here again, we could talk for months on this but five wisdoms there you know the consciousnesses are being transformed into the wisdoms. So the wisdoms are actually starting to make their first appearance here as well. So if you wanted to really get into this, you'd have to also unpack those five wisdoms. As a sign of mirror like wisdom dissolving, or partial experience of this wisdom at least we no longer hold things clearly in mind and lose visual and mental clarity. Some llamas actually quite a few, quite a few texts saying that everything becomes yellowish, the color of earth so remember we talked gassers so much here we talked about remembering the Bardo Dermatol everything first arises from light, the white light of the Dharma tavas yourself as you will occur. Whatever you want to append to it that white lights and refracted through think metaphorically don't think literary through this prism. But white the light retracts into these five colors. These are the five primordial colors these are our ancestors. This is the light of which were made of this is actually the light of Amitabha, refracting through and into the five Buddha families. And so, fundamentally, the yellow light represents the light of Earth. So when that element dissolves, you can recognize this sometimes the literature says people will experience everything with his yellowish appearance because that's the color that's the light of the earth element. And remember this guy oh gosh, there's so much to say here. You know there there is no fundamental Earth outside of of these elemental qualities of the mind. So that's what's happening here is the reified elements, is being de reified. The frozen light is melting back into light. That's what's happening here. Secret signs so the secret signs are really those who only work at the deepest levels of what we're exploring here. What's really going on from a luminosity approach, because the secret signs or the encroachment each one of these is you're getting closer and closer to this fundamental luminosity on the mind the damata light, which is revealed fully at its so called stage nine, which is basically the entrance into the luminous Bardo Dharma talk. So the secret sign here is a shimmering Mirage appears which is the image of Earth melting into water. Number two. water dissolves into fire. The outer signs we lose control of bodily fluids, or nose runs, we dribble and drill we becoming Patton then there's a discharge from the eyes, we can't move our tongue. Lips are drawn in the bloodlust. So once again, from an inner Yogi point of view, what's happening, the winds are coming into the central channel. This is partly what takes place in according to the Kalachakra Tantra This is what takes place as we age. Every decade one of these five and the five main and fives subordinate winds are literally withdrawing redrawing retreating and as they retreat, the manifestation of that on the outer side. This is what constitutes aging from the inner yogic Kalachakra point of view. Lips are drawn and bloodless nostrils came in we tremble in Twitch, and then as water spikes before it dissolves, we feel saturated with water as if carried away by a flood and then our mouth tongue and nose dry out. You feel thirsty, blood and lymph circulation slows the sense of sound degenerate. So that's the second thing. Those of you who work again with dying people you know this they they just they dry up right? Everything becomes part so you have to keep everything moisturized. To a certain extent in terms of palliative care, you don't want to give them water you know a lesser at the well advance of this. You don't want to keep them alive with food. And this is tricky because we often associate food with expressions of love. And then when someone is dying, the last thing you want to do is give them food if this level, I mean they'll choke on it, it can actually just cause really undue unnecessary suffering. The body knows what to do here. The body is going to take care of itself. Just get out of the way. support their mind, create the holding environment, but don't interfere with the death process. Enter signs the mind is more unclear, vague, vague and foggy. How do we become emotionally touchy? Excuse me or easily provoked signs of the Skanda of feelings. So that's the second scanner right? Form feeling perception formation consciousness those are the five skandhas they are going to be retreating dissolving into the fiscal no which is consciousness that's going to be then what constitutes the three stages of the inner dissolution? All right, excuse me. Signs of the Skanda feeling dissolving the mind is hazy, frustrated, confused and fearful sensations are dulled the sign of the wisdom of equanimity actually. It should be quality dissolving we lose our sense of emotional balance become nervous and irritable. Some say everything becomes whitish the color of water so these air signs border on secret signs. So this is the other thing about this stuff. I mentioned this earlier. This is a really articulate description, but somewhat on the heels of what Evan Thompson says the near enemy of articulation is reification solidifying these stages thinking that everything should go precisely in this way. Well, this abides to the fundamental principle the bar knows that nothing is fixed even this map isn't fixed. So like I mentioned before, the elegance of this can backfire. If you're going through and thinking oh my gosh, what's happening this is stage four is happening before stage two, ah. So this is why you use these as orienting generalizations as a waste, basically a way to solve this general GPS to kind of find your way more or less. But then even even with all this in mind, the most important thing is just get out of the way. Be open to whatever arises and just go for the ride. If the expect and think is gonna go exactly the same way that is described here. I mean, you can see how this can backfire right. Secret signs are we see smoke swirling around us or feel we're in a smoke filled room which is an image of water being poured out the fire everything is cloudy and steamy. I remember my teacher Khenpo Rinpoche Gail I think I saw Gail here. You remember Campbell was once asked about the signs. And when it comes to this one he somebody asked him well, what is it what is it like when this this water dissolves into fire? And he said exactly, I mean, he just right out said well, it's like you're sitting in this room and all of a sudden he gets filled with smoke.
Stage three wire dissolves into when our signs this one I see a lot with dying people. We get hot. Really feverish is when people like take off the blanket. Open the window, get some air in here. I'm really hot. So you're really really hot. And then cold out of the mouth and nose dry up. breath becomes cooler. I've noticed this we can no longer drink or digest anything. We stop eating so eating is associated digestion is associated with the fire element. So this is really helpful to know. I think I told you the story with my mom when she was dying. I asked my dad because it was one of my great regrets that it wasn't there for every last minute of this. But I asked my dad, you know tell me tell me when mom stops eating. And he called one day and said she's no longer eating I hopped on a plane and she transitioned within actually five days. So this is a really helpful one. Unless you engage in artificial life versus authentic death. You know why why why the artificial life just to have an authentic death. That is not a defeat. Don't don't just don't do that, you know, least that's me speaking. But when they stopped eating only two more elements to go. If you're living out of time out of time, get on a plane. There's not that much time left. The environment is burning that our limbs grow cold our sense of smell degenerates, if you've ever held the hand of someone who's dying over day after day after day, you notice this right? And the limb start to get cold. And physiologically what's happening is everything's returning to the brain into the heart. Everything's withdrawing even the elements. Circulation withdraws the winds withdraw the eighth consciousness is withdrawing during life, the eighth conscious the economy, the eighth consciousness is infusing your whole body that's worth Lodge. And so that is also retreating into the central channel and when all that withdrawal and retreat is taking place. You get this these successive layers of immobility and movability. And you'll notice muscles activity drops down, they get colder and colder. Everything's moving towards the central channel, and then everything's going to be moving into the heart. This is why it took time and the post death meditative absorption thing. You can put your hand over someone who's and took down 234 Or five a week after they died. They're still warm fluid, their hearts center, because the consciousness is still resting in the heart center. And so this is what Richie and his team are studying. And this is the kind of stuff that's documented in this film which I do recommend it between two worlds they riff on this quite a bit. Yeah, some texts say that if heat dissipates from the lower parts of the body first, and that can signal impending rebirth into a higher realm. Excuse me if the heat dissipates from the upper parts for a second signal rebirth into a lower realm. inner science the mind alternates between clear and unclear. This is the sign of the scan of perception that has gone is dissolving. We lose our ability to identify and define information received from the senses. We can't recognize family and friends. We can't remember names. This is a sign of the discriminating wisdom dissolving discriminating awareness was the dissolving. It's hard to distinguish people and things around us. What's happening here that was everything's returning to the to the Buddha family of Amitabha this is some Olga Caiola will Amitabha gets technical. And so everything is colored red, because this is the element that's associated red is the fundamental color of this light think mythopoetic layer here, then reifies into the fire element, then reifies into the metabolism. Everything is reddish the secret signs smoky appearance are the last stage to get sharper than sparks or fireflies appear which are images of wind blowing into fire. So if you're really really subtle, good now you learned about phenomenology. Well, we're working with micro phenomenology. Another word that makes my heart flutter. Evan Thompson according This is so funny, right? This I get such a kick out of this. Evan Thompson calls this quantum phenomenology and I didn't share the story with you. This is so great. The scientist psychoneuroimmunology just Candace pert out of NIH wrote this really wonderful book called Molecules of Emotion. Really, really great book. And she I can't remember if it's in his book or in an interview but she says something is just awesome. It applies to philosophers is the material to is applies to scientists, but she says scientists would rather use each other's toothbrushes and each other's terminology that is so true. So dear loving, Evan Thompson, he talks about quantum phenomenology. And on the more classic term is micro phenomenology. But the idea is, through meditation we can become micro phenomenologist. We have the capacity to perceive in a much more heightened and granular way. And so I bring this into play here. Because if you have a heightened sense of perception and perception in particular, when you're answering really really deep meditation states formless meditation states, what happens is the winds are actually entering into the central channel and it could Gordon fashion in really deep states of meditation. Some of you may have had these experiences, and then you actually can get to the point that this is not hyperbole, it's literal. Like I mentioned before, you enter these deep jhana Samadhi absorption states where you're you're literally not breathing. No matter what you're literally not breathing. You're kept alive by the subtle planet systems and subtle winds. But as the winds are actually entering the central channel, really refined meditator can see this they can see the secret signs in their meditation. You can also see this when you're falling asleep. You may notice if you're paying attention to sleep, you may notice certain flashes of light taking place. These are these lights you may notice some of these images taking place. This is a concordant expression of these winds entering the central channel. Excuse me. Number four when dissolves into consciousness the outer signs breathing is harder. Inhalation is short and rough. exhalation is long and sighing rasping and petting occurs. The death rattle eyes roll up the sense of taste, the generates and so those of you who have worked in this business, you know, it's called Shane Stokes or SPIRATION. If you're around someone like my father, this is really quite dramatic and had I not known what was going on. It's really really hard to witness where where loved ones energy is really struggling to breathe, the breath gets really labored and painful. They're really struggling and so when you see that the death rattle or the Shane Stokes respiration thing, there's only one more Elon element to go death is imminent. It's really really close. So that's the kind of thing I mean with my father lasted almost 24 hours it was it was tricky. It was difficult to witness because you could tell he was going you know, whatever level of consciousness he had, who knows. But this is a powerful painful indicator, what's happening on our analog to the winds entering the central channel. Literally, it's as if you're giving these elements back to their primordial lender to the earth. Not easy to see. The inner signs the sensation of one floating or being blown up by a strong wind. The experiences of being extremely confused, bewildered in a seated color Rinpoche says right the internal experience of the dying person is a great winds sweeping away the whole world. An incredible maelstrom of wind is consuming the entire universe. And quote, one is unaware of the outside world. So this time you're getting more and more interior mind is becoming more and more reality. Why? Because there's nothing else says faculties are being shut down and you're being forced with him. Exactly what happens in dark retreat aren't exactly what happens in a certain sense miniature sounds when you fall asleep at night. A variety of hallucinations can occur, which are just thoughts becoming more vivid and intense if we lead a good life we tend to see good visions at this point. We may see angels, deities or teachers. So some people have near death experiences will register this. If we lead a bad life, we might see bad visions. I was with people. And again, it's amazing the types of things that happen I remember, I won't name names, but a friend of community member was dying. I was spending a fair amount of time with him for his last week. And he was a pretty seasoned practitioner. So it was actually really interesting, quote unquote, without getting too clinical. When we'd be sitting there he go Andrew, do you see that being at the end of the hall? And I turn around and I go, No, you know, Jim, I don't see him. And so a while ago, there's only theory as these up on the ceiling now. And so I go well, tell me about him. What does he look like instead of No, no, you're hallucinating. It's not real. Don't do that. Just be curious. Oh, wow. That's really cool. Jim tell me more about it. So super interesting to have these kinds of hallucinations taking place. At this at this stage. Any of this can happen at any point in the dyeing process from but here seems to be a little bit more kind of heightened
the Skanda formations the fourth Skanda some scar sounders is the dissolving. We lose all motivation. That's what basically moves us now there's some scars and a sense of purpose. A sign of the all accomplishing wisdom. This is the karma energy. We're Moga city I'm not I'm not naming all I mean, again, there's so much here basically the other thing that's happening is that any one of these stages, if you can recognize what's actually happening, and you can attain rebirth on that in the Pure land of each one of these Buddhas, because each one of these stages is also associated with a female and male Buddha kind of making their appearance and so if you recognize that you can attain liberation and the pure lands of these respective Buddhas through each one of these stages. So again, this is all part of the extraordinary granularity. It's just a little bit outside of our scope Yeah, the signing of the all accomplishing wisdom and will be city green. Energy dissolves. We're no longer to perform actions, able to perform actions. And then a number of texts say that everything appears green. That's the energy of this wind. The secret sign a butter lamp or a torch appears. The point is to attend to unrest in the secret signs. So this is where the tradition is pretty, pretty clear and assertive for those who have familiarity. At the level of the map, which is what we're doing here are some level of familiarity through meditation. You can recognize these dissolution processes when your life alive and they can then provide quite powerful sign. Which is my reincarnated villain. He can't do that. You want to back you gotta go here
Alright,
my dog loves to talk. When anybody comes by. He's always got something to say. Ah, yeah, so you can get a sense of these. Inner of the secret signs through study like this. And in particular, through these deep meditative practices, where you start to see these concordant experiences of these enter of the secret dissolution sites. Number five consciousness dissolves into space. So this is the this is like a Bardo within these Bardot's. So when I read I read every book I could get my hands on. And it was amazing the amount of variety in this stage five, and so I had to really like ask like, what's really going on here? What are they what's what's, what's really happening? So I try to get basically the consensus from all these resource texts. But then it's almost like a Bardo. It's almost like this is the gap between the outer and the inner dissolutions. And so this is the one that fits probably 50% in the inner dissolution 50% in the outer dissolution, so this is the one of all the stages that was the most inarticulate, the most vague. While the first four just solutions occur at the level of the girl's body, the fifth dissolution occurs at the level of the subtle body. This stage is the most ambiguous almost like a mini Bardo, between the outer and inner stages outer sign body becomes completion, completely motionless. Gasping for one last breath. Respiration ceases a sense of touch to generate and if you've ever been with the chairside bedside of someone who dies, right, it's just the most amazing moment right? Especially with a loved one. You're with them their breathing, their breathing and all sudden
you probably thought my computer froze on that they got a the silence is deafening. If you've been there, you know it's like wow, it's just so impactful that one minute they're alive. Next minute, got they got their powerful, powerful. The inner science the continuity of science from the last dissolution in the scandal of girls consciousness dissolves the complete dissolution of consciousness now occurs in the inner dissolution. So the inner signs and secret signs are the only things that are going to be left in the upcoming three stages of the inner dissolution. Why? Because there's no more body, there's no more senses. There's no place for the outer disillusions anymore. So when we get to the energy solutions probably next time, that's why there's only the inner and secret taking place because there is no longer a growth outer body. Everything that's now taking place is taking place in the inner subtle body, and there is no outer signs from that mostly secret signs the appearance of a butter lamp or torch continuous from stage four that I for those of you who have the book I have this table that summarizes all the stages here. Yep, so what do I have the element dissolve the chakra dissolves the when the sands the scanner, the outer inner secret signs for at least seven things are happening. There's actually more but goodness, that's enough. Okay, so kind of as a summary of this, what's happening. This is Rich at the end of the outer dissolution the girl's body is dead and the outer respiration ceases. During the inner dissolution, the subtle body will die which means consciousness is going to die. In the inner respiration ceases in terms of the outer dissolution, there is another pattern that can further orient this process. Our senses and our experiences are becoming increasingly not all. The senses dissolve from the top down. First, the eyes and the ears, nose, tongue and finally touch. We're descending into the heart of the body. And then into the heart of the mind. We're going from the most dualistic to the least dualistic In other words, the eyes perceive the farthest they're the most dualistic sense sound is less dualistic smell even less taste and touch even less. They're the most non dualistic so called physical senses. Touch is not quite entirely non dualistic because we're still touching an other seeming other. But it is the most non dualistic spelt sounds right? Perhaps this is why we crave to be touched so much maybe. So this is also don't say it is here or not. Maybe I don't. Yeah, so this is yeah, so what's happening here, those of you who are students of Tibetan Buddhism, right, you know, this. No, I know ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. Where have you heard this before? Is The Heart Sutra The Heart Sutra is a death sutra. You're returning into the primordial lap of the mother prajna paramita. Represented in the Heart Sutra, and so on. The Heart Sutra goes through this, this articulation no I knew Ear, Nose, the tongue, no body no mind. It's basically recapitulating this death journey. When we die, we're heading into non duality, or luminosity. This enlightenment fully occurs at the end of the inner dissolution when consciousness duality dissolves into wisdom that this occurs on the heart center, which is the center of our body mirrors, the centering that also takes place in our mind. We're returning to the center of the mandala. We're coming home. It's basically a fundamental restoration project. That is a fundamental restoration project. And returning everything from its fracture divided bifurcated dualistic expression, healing, healing, remembering right the essence of spiritual practice is remembrance. Well, what's happening here are you being forced to remember literally to join up to remember these as you start to dismember, pardon the pun is he stopped if the as you stop dismembering, stop forgetting stop distracting. You start healing you start holding you start restoring. So from a spiritual point of view, this is this is a spiritual healing process. This is a restoration process is taking place you're being restored. Back to your true complete identity as the universe itself. Then the question becomes will you recognize yourself as the universe as being both simultaneously? Nothing and everything? Well, how can you be that in Aristotle's world well let it let alone anybody else's world well, you can't What do you mean I can be nothing and everything that just makes no sense. Well, of course, it makes no sense. In an Aristotelian binary world, but being nothing and being everything is what happens when you died. You turn into nothing. Remember, what did the color Rinpoche say we live in illusion and the appearance of things there is a reality. We are that reality. When you discover this, you will realize you are nothing by becoming nothing. You are everything. That's it with this evil disillusion or being forced to relate to our mind simply because there's nothing else to relate to this is amazing to me this, this is my whole view on death by now. Basically, deficit is forceful liberation is forceful because it's uncompromising and non negotiable. You can't do anything about it. You're returning into the non dual state you're going to be the Enlightened source. And you can't do anything about it. Hence, wrathful form of liberation. Well, if you do these practices, it doesn't have to be the raffle. You can be gentle. You can titrate the experience you can die before you die. That's the whole point. That's what we're doing. Here. There's nothing else to relate to you're forced to relate your mind because there's nothing else everything else has got they got the power I got day gone gone. All the world is gone. Sensory distractions are gone, body has gone. The only thing left is our internal experience. Only thing left is our mind. In other words, think about this, you're being forced to meditate. This is fantastic. Meditation is about establishing a relationship proper relationship to mind. And death forces this relationship by the process of progressive exclusion external side is excluded then sound, smell, taste and finally touch. This is why meditation is such a complete preparation for death. Lama Yeshe che says meditation cuts the gross busy mind and allows the subtle consciousness to function. In that way, it performs a similar function to that of death. absolutely positively. Meditation is just death and slow motion. Can we say that again? Meditation is just death in slow motion. It's all about letting go. Letting go of identification with your thoughts with your body with any phenomena, literally retreating, retreating, stepping back, returning, restoring first to the witness. And then finally, even the witness itself dissolves into non duality. This is why also why deep meditation can get frightening because our normal sense of self is dying. You may have noticed this right? I'm Asian I love this guy continues some people experience loss of identity and meditation. Psychedelics, by the way, do the same thing. Some do. Some people experience loss of identity and meditation and it gets scared. That's good. You should be scared Why are you afraid? Why are you afraid of losing something? What you're losing is your self existent or concrete preconception of yourself. That's what shaken your spirit. It's your projection of yourself that shakes not your non duality that doesn't shake that's your changeless nature. Nothing happens to doubt. Your own nature isn't shaken. Why? Because it's formless. It's doubtless nothing can shake that up. When we're dying, everything internal and external deteriorates and disappears. So we get very scared because we're losing our normal security. We're losing endpoint. We're losing a quote, we're losing all our reference points, all sense of basically echolocation of positioning in our world altogether. With a proper view, we realize that what we're losing on the relative level is offset by what we're gaining on the absolute level that was kind of intimated in that quote from Eckhart Tola last time as our false sense of self evaporates fake news, right? Fake News dies to reveal Real News. The truth body, the body of truth, the Dharmakaya everything else is a fractured, distracted fake news. Fracture upon fracture upon fracture. This is what I'm going to be talking about it that I kind of bent
because I can't people integral people are big into the meta crisis. So I'm going to present a model of how the meta crisis is nothing more than an iterative of expression of successive fracturing, fracturing of self from other that's the primordial rupture that was being healed here. And then upon that fractures more more fractured more fracture upon fracture upon fracture, contraction upon contraction, distraction upon distraction. And you keep breaking, breaking, breaking, breaking, breaking, breaking away, you get a metal break, you got a metal fracture, that's the metal crisis. The metal crisis is that is just the fractal iteration, recursive feeding back of this phenomenology of distraction and fracturing. That's what it is. And so either a dark retreat deep meditation or death, what are you doing, healing, holing? Remembering, integrating, coming back healing, healing, healing, healing, healing, putting a cast on your mind and your body as our false sense of self evaporates is replaced by authentic and immortal sense of self. This is the big S self in the way that Hindus talk about so the phenomenologically on atman selflessness, is exactly the same as the big S self in Hinduism. It's the same. It's the same the big S self is not yourself. The big ourself is this emptiness. My friend David Loy argues this really brilliantly in his book, non duality, in Buddhism and beyond spot on. The end of the outer dissolution is the time to do polar rejection. Of Consciousness just before we stopped breathing. However, some masters say we can start POA at any stage of the outer dissolution. This is a another reason why it's helpful to become familiar with the stages in their sights. Cool. Wow. So that was a little bit kind of, you know, checklists sort of thing. Hopefully not too much heavy lifting. So any questions or comments? I'll look through the chat column. But in the meantime, if anybody wants to raise their hand more than welcome Yes, the coupon thing. Yes, there is one there Hellas, it just posted it prepare 30 That's the code 30% off. Okay, where are we here? Thanks. for correcting me. I was wrong on my page.
Haven't seen any come in through the chat.
Okay, here's a well, okay, well, let's get Jerry and Barbara and Atlanta whoever else is up. Hey, Jerry. Are you taking notes are you transcribing this for our 10,000 page? Second edition of this book? I'm calling on you man got several books, but
I want to ask a question. You know, you're talking about the states are dying. And but there are several cultures where, you know, they practice like you know, different forms of preparing the body for death. And you know, how about oh, what is it? You know? When you burn the body at death? You okay, you know, that's called what again? You know, instead of having a casket, the cream oh, it's cremation. Yeah,
yeah, sure. Okay.
Doesn't that go against a lot of the things you're saying here if they they cremate you, but it's been practiced like in the east?
Where's the say more? Where's the conflict? What is it against in terms of what I've been talking about? Well,
you know, you're supposed to go through all these stages as you're dying you know, losing your senses and stuff like that. And you say like to heart even after the our signs of life are gone. The heart still remains warm. For like, I think you said sometimes days.
That's a rare event. took time is a very rare events. It only happens to people who have pretty deep familiarity with these really formless dimensions of their mind. For the vast, vast, vast majority of people who knows what the stats are, but probably 99.99 something percent right within within I love the way they say this within the time it takes to eat a meal. What is that? 20 minutes, you're out of your body, you're gone. So that basically again, what do I know? Right? Basically, within 20 minutes, that's what takes place with the cessation of outer respiration. Cardiac arrest 20 minutes, but I just listened to a really interesting interview that I for those of you who are preparing to die people, we're gonna post it in that community by Sam partea, MD PhD, who's done some really interesting research around this. I'm gonna see if I can get him for an interview, where basically his work is redefining this whole notion of death. I mean, they're actually able to bring people back hours after their brain dead by normal if they're if they're in a really cold environment, right. You can bring people back for a heck of a lot longer than we originally thought. So the definition of death itself, I'm sure some of the physicians here have been keeping up on this. That's really changing. I mean, where what exactly constitutes irreparable non restorable death. So even at a medical level, that's not clear. So you talked about the spiritual thing, it's even more ambiguous, right and so this is why I love what Deepak Chopra says about all this kind of thing. He gave this wonderful presentation at an event I did with Bob Thurman a couple years ago. He was a guest presenter. And he did this I think I'm going to share this with you. It's just brilliant. He gave us long long riff on how big the universe was, you know how many how massively colossal was, you know, light years across and trillions upon trillions of everything. And then in a super skillful way, you brought it back at the end to bring it all into say, there's so much room in the universe for all these different views. Why does it have to be just at the Buddhist view? Why does it have to be just the Christian view and this is what I like about everyone Thompson's rift is ritualized phenomenology. You know, I think to me, the most important take home here is working with your own mind and heart. The thing that makes a ton of sense to me, is this. What happens when you die in Tibet midterm is wrong, Bob, the mind falls into itself. That's what happens deep meditation and that's what happens in sleep and dream. That's what happens when you die, the mind is going to fall into itself. As Rumi puts it into wider wider rings of vein. And so what's gonna then constitute the death and dying experience is what's going to be lodged in the surface of deep structures of that mind. And so, depending on where you are in that in your acculturation people are going to have different experiences at the outer levels. That makes total sense to me. It does also make sense to me that at the very deepest levels, the kind of the reduction base, and there's some really interesting compelling information here I shared this with you from the Jewish mystical tradition and others Hinduism on the light, that there's this fundamental return to primordial light but this is lobby This is a area of incredible interesting conversation slash debate that will never be resolved. And I'm okay with it. Why can't you have this my friend Sean SPR Hargens calls it ontological flooding. Why can't you have a banquet? table that's big enough to contain all these views? Am I to say somehow, I mean, I think it's crazy ly arrogant and hubris thick to say that this is the only way that's going to happen when you die. Oh, Lord. I'm definitely not saying that. I mean, some some teachers in this tradition they say that but boy, that just doesn't land with me. So anyway, that's just my rant.
Well, you know, even last week, I was training in one of my medical blogs that you know, in medicine does it is your heart stops beating, you know, stop breathing, and that's up, but I was reading in a medical blog about a case where a guy was rushed to the emergency room because I don't know if he had a heart attack, but it was something very sudden, you know, and he was unconscious, and you know, they're working on you know, and he has an out of body experience. And it's like, he has literally floating above and he could see every detail every last detail on the room around a common Yeah. And you know, after it you know, he has no more vital signs. They take him to the more and then hours later, after there's no circulation, no breathing, no movement whatsoever. He comes back to life.
Love it. I love it. Why not? I'm not dead yet. It's like that Monty Python thing, right. Remember? Bring out your dad remember that great saying the guy's lying out by the air and he goes, I'm not dead yet. In fact, I'm I love it. I love it. Thanks, Jerry. Appreciate it.
One last question. Have you ever heard about the Oh, let's see how this goes. The the Dyslexic Agen agnostic?
Yes, I have. Yeah, that's a good one, right? The answer is yeah, you told me all the way
that they won't read if there's a dog.
You got. Thanks, Jerry. I appreciate it. We need some gallows. Humor here. Okay, Barbara. Unmute yourself dear.
Get work. There
we go. Now it's working. Okay. I was having trouble unmuting but now I lost. Andrew. Are you there? Oh, there you are. You weren't on my screen. You basically addressed what I was going to be asking about and because I'm like going along and thinking Oh, yeah. And then I realized I might taking this too literally. That first your outer body dies and then you start doing this under stuff, but are you still alive and so forth? I think you pretty much covered that in the in the answer that you were talking to Gary. So maybe I'll ask a different question, which is, I was going to take your course the death and dying and then I answered too late and it was full. And I just wondered a little bit of how much more or what that goes into that you don't go into through the book and through the going through the book. It's pretty different. I mean, on level on some levels, obviously, there's some overlap. There is 4050 hours of free recorded material. So that there's that which is a little bit more somewhat in line with what we're doing here. But the I mean, there's so much in this course, interviews with all these amazing experts and then what I do over 12 sessions, two and a half hours every week is I just do exhaustive
teachings on the right view, using support from all these different traditions, overthrowing materialism, overthrowing this view of of the body, in mind being the same thing. And so obviously, there are some overlaps but there is a ton of information in that course that is not here. So this is what I think I might have mentioned this I you know, if I live long enough, one of my real dreams is to actually write a trilogy it's a big massive three volume 800 pages each on each one of these Bardot's and all the stuff that I've thought about and and reflected on since I wrote this book. So if I live long enough, that's still my aspiration then when all this stuff will maybe be thrown together. But this is also a Jerry needs to work on after he's done with this 10,000. So it's, it's pretty different. There's a lot in there about quantum field theory pantheism idealism, which may seem like well, God, this sounds like a big philosophical course. No, no, no. It's basically a way to create right view. Because we suffer and we're afraid at the end of life because of wrong view. That wrong view is the wrong wrong view of materialism, the view of matter, the view that we actually exist as an independent self. And so in this course I just go at this like we're trying to repeal and replace Obamacare right down to after death after dead trying to repeal and replace materialism. And I use every trick and technique I can come up with from every possible field, to overthrow this to create a right view. So that then you realize at the end of life, you really do have something to look forward to. So obviously, some similarities, but most of it is pretty
new. It's more expansive, it sounds like yeah, in terms you. Exactly. Yeah. And then do you do some pure land? No,
not in that course. No. Again, there's even with a 50 hour pre recorded thing. There's only so much we can cover and so the Pureline thing I do like the one that's coming up in whether some of this will be canned in archived I don't really know yet. We'll have to see on that but I don't again, there's only so much I can have.
So I go and only so much one can join at any particular job
and only so much you can take in and there's always a TMI, you know, there's just a lot of information. So I always have to balance that with a contemplation meditation and have it which is why those who people who attend that since you gave me a chance to talk about it is we're going to start at annual preparing today meeting gathering every year and draw a mountain center where this cohort thing that gets continues to grow, will gather for intensive practice once once a year for an entire week, where we actually engage in a lot of meditation and not so much me flapping my lips. So we're excited about it's pretty cool. It's a cool gig.
Will you be offering it again?
Oh, yeah, every to every This is such a big success. I've been we've been working on this for 10 years. We're going to be offering it twice a year, the preparing to die thing. Three months of training every every fall and spring. Because yeah, it's just it's been very well received and we're getting a lot of interest in continuing it. So that's the aspiration. Thanks for giving me the chance to put up my lemonade stand. Thank you. Hey, Evelyn. Unmute yourself, dear.
Thank you very much. Loving this book. Andrew. I would question if you can comment on the difference in this dying process when one has a sudden, catastrophic event like car crash or some other form of accidental death? That's,
I've asked a ton of teachers. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, I've asked a ton of teachers this and it makes a lot of sense to me. Exactly the same process happens it just happens a lot faster. And this is where it can be a tad bit more bewildering for people. But maybe not. I mean, maybe it's like a five Meo DMT experience where within 10 seconds if you've ever done it, you're gone. And to me, I mean, I played with this medicine and I loved it. You're in the Dharmakaya within 10 seconds. And I was like this is like a sudden death. It was actually I grew up on it is like really awesome. And so because I was you know, somewhat familiar with this, I actually did it in the context of a deep retreat. There was like, wow, this is the same space I've been in in my meditation for a week. So it was beautiful. I loved it. So what happens in rapid death and a number of teachers that I've talked to you seem phenomenology, ritualized or not, just happens very quickly. And so if you're familiar with your mind again, this the it doesn't matter whether it's slow or fast if you've already retreated if you've already died before you died, dis identified from all these levels of form it doesn't matter. I mean, look at the self immolation of tick Guan duck who burned himself alive and protests of religious persecution and the Vietnamese war. I mean, he entered an erroneous a mapa de I'm sure a cessation state after pouring the gas on him. Someone that has on himself person has that kind of mind control. He just retreated to the center of his being turned his consciousness off on demand within seconds. It's totally possible Delson Armstrong to do it the guy that check out my podcast with him on edge of mind. He can do it. So these these states are available for people who do this type of work. So in short, what happens in rapid death the same thing it just happens. Perhaps no surprise just a lot faster. Thank you. Welcome. Hey, Sandra, how are you? Unmute yourself there?
Me? Yeah.
I think you're still muted or you're still muted. You're still muted.
There we go. Oh,
we can hear you. All
right. So my question is, is if I am fortunate enough to have a death with my loved ones around me
and this sounds so controlling, but I'm envisioning that I would like them not to hold my hand not to touch me. Because I just want the concentration at the at the moment of death to be in my mind so that I'm not distracted and and leave the body through some other portal besides my crown. Is that smart? I mean, I
know it's not controlling at all this is what you want to do. Yeah. You want you want to. I will do exactly the same thing. And this is why you have to have your advanced directives and your Dharma will attack so you have people that so to speak, executors who enforce this for you, I would do exactly the same thing. You don't want anything if in ideal situations, this is not controlling, you're not a control freak. You're creating a holding environment that's allowing you to retreat withdraw. In the most graceful way, I would do exactly the same thing. Say your goodbyes beforehand. If there's emotionality or whatever, those people are invited out of the room or they're not even left in the room. And basically, you're just this is your pony guy. This is your show. And so you create this environment, where it's like, Hey, man, I want to do this interior journey. I do not want to be distracted. I want you as my dharma executors to create this mandala for me. This is what Dharma wheels and that whole thing is exactly about and people should think very deliberately. At the end of the book, there's a whole appendix on this. There's a riff on Dharma wheels. Do this in advance so that you can engage in this interior journey at that moment. You do not want to be pulled out in a way where everything is basically forcing you down and in. And so I 100% agree with you. It's not a control for you just creating a proper holding environment for your release. I would do the same thing.
Thank you. Yeah,
that was fine. Hey, Michelle, unmute yourself. Please.
Yield. Hello, hello. Thank you very much for this. And my question is first I had the same question with an accident, but I'm sad. So my other question is, like, first the body dies, and then the mind I encounter my own mind or the mind and if I which is similar to the state of dreaming already, so if I have a lot of intense and weird dreams, and I die, I would encounter the same intensity and weirdness the same energy
or to say maybe it is really difficult to say what total authority I mean, this is what's so interesting, right? Remember what Robert Thurman says around this, which I thought it was just brilliant, when he said, It's not safe to die, as long as you have an unconscious mind, and that's an amazing statement. Why is that? Well guess what happens when you die? The unconscious mind. The surface becomes conscious and so this is good news or bad news depending on how you stuff your ballot box. So if you're a not so good person with not so good activities, and that's a great karma, right what is the fifth remembrance This is so brilliant, write this down, put it on your fridge. My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground on which I stand. And so depending on the ground you put under your feet while you're alive, and that's what's going to come up after you die. So there's this is no magic. This is physics, I mean in terms of causality. So this is actually either really intimidating or really inspiring. This means that if you lead a really good life, you're going to have a really good death. Because that good habit that good karma, what you've put in your unconscious mind, that's gonna take good care of you. If you've been a bad boy or bad girl, fill in the blank, there's a number of those running around, well Brace yourself, you're going to be greeted by those Hello states of mind. Because your unconscious mind comes to the surface. So what do you do what to accept what to reject? Well, you reject those aspects that are damaging to self another. You accept those circumstances and states of mind that are beneficial to self another. And then with leading a just a wonderfully you want the very best carte blanche across best way to prepare for death is lead a good life. But Emma's latest book how you live is how you die. So it depends on how you live your life. And so for most of us, we're a bit of a smorgasbord, there's some good there's some bad there's some ugly, there's a little bit of everything. And that's why we have good bad and ugly dreams because we are this kind of mishmash of of unconscious processes. But the more you clean up your act, you know this is the all the practices of purification, cleaning up habits cleaning out the unconscious mind, the more you'll actually have a graceful journey. That doesn't mean there might be some surprises that pop up but with a meditative relationship to it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because you're not you realize that's just an expression of your mind. It only matters what if you reify it if you solidify it, you let it copy, let it go. Even if it's so called scary doesn't matter. Because you're no longer non loosen to it. You're no longer buying into it. Basically what does that mean? You're no longer taking and voluntary rebirth into those states. You develop a witnessing capacity where it doesn't matter what actually happens. Okay.
Thank you very much.
Hey, James, two more in life department and then we'll close the live department and then we'll go to the chat department but that department
Hey, buddy, hey, Andrew. I think you just answered my question but I'm gonna I'm gonna pose it again because just this little section under what what dissolves into consciousness that we lead a good life we tend to see good visions at this point. We may see angels deities are teachers. If we let a battle light, we might see bad visions. This just sounds suspiciously like my Catholic upbringing doesn't and it just there's something inside me that just rebelled when I hear that, that that language because you know I'm gonna give you an example when my father who was who was a Catholic, I am not. On his deathbed. He was suffering because he felt like he didn't live a good enough life and he suffered because of he was holding on to that thing and we had to keep reassuring him that he did okay. It's a subjective thing. Is it not this because I feel like if I don't live a life like Mother Teresa, I'm not gonna go to that good place and I'm not living a life like Mother Teresa.
Well, let me ask you, let me ask you this James. You tell me what makes sense to you. So I mean, irrespective of these kinds of belief systems what makes sense to you hear I mean, maybe take a look at your own being and how you relate to your own mind and what arises and just ask yourself what really makes sense here. I mean, domain doesn't. Doesn't that kind of make sense?
It doesn't. That's where I said, I think you answered my question. I mean, I'm writing down some of the things like the Bob Thurman quote or what you said, if you're already familiar with your mind doesn't matter. And I am a regular meditator. I have been for many years now. So I know I'm doing some things to be able to die before I die as you say. But I don't know I guess maybe I just got a good sense of Catholic guilt that I'm not doing a good enough. I'm not doing enough. Yeah,
you're shooting on yourself. Well, don't stop shooting snap. And so you know, the idea here is this. This is also really important in Francesca Fremantle, in her seminal block. This is a masterpiece of a book, luminous emptiness, understanding the Tibetan Book of the Dead. This is a masterpiece. The end of the book, she really really nails it where she says you're in a battle now. There is no BARDA waiting for you. Bartles are the states of mind that you're not going to like die and enter some pre existing terrifying it's like a dream. It's the same thing. It's a dream at the end of time. You go to sleep tonight you're going to die. You're your dream avatar. Your dream body is going to take over so to speak reincarnated in the dream. Is there a pre existing dreamscape waiting for you every night? No. It's just your mind released of sensory that's exactly the same thing. According to this tradition. It makes so much sense to me. This is what's going to happen when you die. It's just your mind. There are no Bardot's outside of the mind. That's why trunk trunk or Ember js book, Journey of the mind it's a journey into and through the heart mind. So this makes so much sense to me that just take a good look at your heart and mind and your everything that the deepest you can go to explore these dimensions here bang. Meditation does this psychedelics to a certain extent, these teachings for sure Bardo yoga practices do it. It makes just makes so much sense to me that this is what's going to happen when you die. The mind is just going to be released from sensory constraint. You're going to enter the dream at the end of time just like in a nighttime dream. And, you know, this is my dream yoga came about principally as a way to prepare for death by the end of life because it's literally called the dream at the end of time. So therefore, yeah, can you say this is a belief system? It's enculturated Yeah. I guess I want that well, but boy, boy, when I just deal with the kind of irrational when I just simply look at the basic causality in effect of what's happening here. And I understand the structure of the mind. It just makes so much sense to me. And in my conversation with Bernardo, which we're going to release in a couple of weeks, you know, we got into this a little bit because he's super clever guy, to put it mildly. And so he has this very, very interesting view on death, I mean, really sophisticated. So we got into that a little bit. And basically, it's completely resonant with everything that we're talking about. This makes so much sense. Well,
I appreciate everything you said. And it does make sense to me. I mean, I I've been, you mentioned some of the things in the preparing to die program. I've been doing metta pretty consistently because it just feels good to wish I wish others well. And even like mantra practice, I've been doing my juicers mantra because they found it very powerful. But I agree, it makes sense. And it's just, I'm just doing the practices and we'll see what happens when you know, at the moment of death, I
suppose. Yeah, send me a postcard. Next message me and give me a high five. Actually, it's interesting when a lot of people die, you may you may have noticed this, there's all kinds of really interesting electronic phenomena that takes place after someone dies. So you might be able to text message me after you go through and give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Okay, just pop it into my voice box and view. Okay,
okay, I'll do that, Andrew. Thank you, man. Hey, Carol.
And then I'll go through a couple of the chat questions and we'll be done. How are you?
Oh, yay, Andrew. I also put my question in the chat, so just ignore it when you see it again. But I'm glad that James asked what he did and how you responded, Because I I'm going back and forth with the radical non duality thing and sit and saying, Well, who's this me that I'm doing all this for and aren't I enabling, you know, this sense of separation by doing all of this? So I that like that's the snag that I have that snag, but when you're talking about but doesn't it make sense to you know, do the right thing live a good life? Not unnecessarily for what it's going to get, uh, me later on. But it just because it feels like the right thing to do, you know, so. So yeah, yeah, thanks for that.
point of clarification. So, to me is when you say doing this, this meaning these teachings and practices, yes, yes. How do you see that how do you see that is counteractive or somehow not in resonance with a non dual thing? What is not jiving together there?
Yeah, so it's like, I'm for doing it for a me like so. When you when you talk about, you know, if you're not a good person, like how James was talking about, like, my sense of that Catholic guilt, you know, comes up, like, oh, you know, if I'm not a good girl, then you know, later on, I'm not going to have a good after life. And but, but really, I'm getting away from from all that, like, doing something for me. That's going to benefit some time in the future, you know?
But don't don't then. Simply don't do it for you. This is a languaging This is a languaging issue to me do it for others. I guess the delicate thing here, Carol is you know, is dancing between relative and absolute truth and the extraordinary difficulty about talking about non duality and dualistic terms. There is no you when we talk about you going this and you're doing that and you creating all this. That's basically from a relative perspective, and you cannot deny that that to me is a colossal mistake and the absolute cystic non dual traditions. I just think they're way wrong. Here. You can you can tell the benefits of non duality to your blue on the face. And that's a type of spiritual bypass, in my opinion. And I can give you some really interesting somewhat painful experiences that people who have attended teachings with these non dual people where they have absolutely no skill set in terms of relating to relative phenomena. So the way I roll with this Carol is I tried to bring heaven in harmony with Earth, I tried to have the view of non duality, which is the highest view, but you have to balance this and recognize this once they reconcile and balance it with the laws of causality with the laws. of habit with the laws of karma, in my opinion, if you're not doing that you're being disingenuous to reality and to yourself and to your students. So I have a real issue with the absolute tist ik approach to this this is a colossal form of reductionism in the non dual traditions in my estimation, and so therefore, I mean, I agree 1,000% There is no you but yet on a relative level, they're sure to seem to view you you're talking to me, you have a body you're communicating. There's something happening there on a relative level, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. So on a relative level, we have to abide by some of those principles. If you don't that's a spiritual bypass in my book. So yeah, we make a real deep look, you take it apart, there is no you there is none of this space doesn't exist. Time doesn't exist. None of this exists on an absolute level. But how much is that going to transform you? I mean, if you just talk about that till you're blue in the face, what does that really going to do for you? So anyway, that's just my role. No,
no, and that's why I'm, I keep coming to the meeting, why want to take preparing to die course. Because I know that that's, you know, but I'm, I I'm trying to sit with it, you know, so that it it, uh, knots itself, you know, it like unraveled itself, because I know what you're saying is right, you know, I know that and I very, very well aware of spiritual bypassing and not having a skill set. You know, I've been at this for a long time. So yeah, thank you. I just needed that encouragement.
Thanks for sharing the insights.
I really doubt now the other thing and you know, you probably this probably won't be that long. It's the question I put in the chat. Do you know of any accounts of people, you know, of those that are very familiar like you were talking about before with a very subtle aspects of mind, who when under anesthesia are conscious? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah,
I know people. Yep, for sure. You know? How does it go? Awareness of absence is not absence of awareness. It's just absence of gross consciousness. And so there's, there's a tacit awareness, the changeless nature, Turia in Hindu language, witness awareness, whatever you will call it. changeless nature. That never turns off. It's always on. It's just completely formless. And so those of us who are almost exclusively identified with form, we have no familiarity with these super subtle dimensions. And so when they get that subtle, we blackout, but definitely, definitely and the literature is replete with this. I know I personally know people who can maintain this type of 24/7, constant lucidity, through anesthesia, through sleep and dream. And it just makes again, it makes total sense to me because this kind of Formless awareness. This is by the way, is the supreme identity. This is who you really are. This is the dimension that does not enter space and time does not enter causality. And that's what's going to be basically discovered revealed when you die, and if you can gain some familiarity with it now, no surprises when you do die. Okay,
thank you so much. Okay.
Okay, let me just flip through some of these. There
was one. They wanted to know what page of the book you were reading from some evidence on this Oh?
291 page 291 Okay. Weird an intense dreams like every night if I died know what? Yeah, that's what I answered. Okay. What is the meta crisis? Yeah, the meta crisis is basically crisis upon crisis. Upon crisis upon crisis, right? political upheaval, racial discrimination, war, ecological devastation, global climate, just everything that's happening in the world. It's not just one crisis. It's a meta crisis. And the integral people are really big, the work of Nick headland and others he's a really really bright guy. He did his PhD dissertation on meta crisis and integral approach is super clever stuff. That's the meta crisis, but I believe what I'm arguing is that the meta crisis like a fractal can be healthfully reduced, not all reductionism is problematic. There's healthy reductionism. You can take complex and reduce it to simple principles, iterative, simple recursive principles. And I think the medic crisis comes down fundamentally to these primordial levels of distraction. I really do a little bit more than I can unpack right now. But this is what I'm going to be riffing on with. The integral people next week. So you can heal the meta crisis through deep meditation and basically the restoration process of non duality. Okay,
oh, yeah. So this is from kala Rinpoche, Bertie the quote, yeah, there is a reality. You are that reality. When you realize this, you will realize you are nothing. And by realizing you are nothing you are everything. A little Rinpoche, I think it comes from his book called The Dharma. But I'm not entirely sure on the reference without looking it up. Okay, are we done here? Okay. I think we're looking pretty good. Thank you all for the bowels and gosh, shows and all that. That's really kind of cool. Okay, everybody, we made it. Yeah, next PDP probably in September. That's our plan to offer it again for another 12 weeks, so we'll be posting that pretty soon. So remember, dedication of merit. That's the other thing we really talked about big time in the Pure Land. I'm going to use quantum field theory to talk about really, I think the best description of merit I've ever come across. I've always wondered for years and years and years, what is this thing called merit? How does it fit in and so I tried to put it together over the last couple of months in a way that really just made a ton of sense to me. But that's beyond our scope for here, but for now, dedicate whatever we've done here, send it out to the entire world is not for us. We send it out to help sentient beings has more power than you can imagine. And until then, like Lester Holt says I like Mr. Holt right? When he signs out. Please take care of yourself and each other. That's pretty good. So until then, I'd follow and Lester Holt's shoes. Please take care. of yourself and each other. Ciao ciao.