You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 238. Our show recently made its debut at South by Southwest week in Austin, Texas, with a live podcast recording at the cherub pop up shop. cherub, one of the companies I Angel invested in last year is a platform connecting founders with funders. If you're interested in Angel investing, or you're a founder who's seeking capital, and wants to plug into a network of strategic angels for your next fundraise, shoot me a DM at MissEllenYin on Instagram with the word cherub and I'll help you get started. In this live recording, you get to eavesdrop on my conversation with two founders on the chair of that platform, Shannon Davenport of Esker and Bridgitte Mallinson of Gut Personal, who have both successfully raised money for their businesses, we all see the highlight reel of how much companies are raising and making. But rarely do we hear founders talk about the flip side of the coin? How much are they actually spending and on what? Today we're going behind the business with Shannon and Bridgitte to answer these questions as they get transparent about their company's burn rates.