Theatre Forum Finance Session
10:42AM Mar 11, 2021
Hi everyone, you're very welcome this morning to this finance session, and I'm Irma from theatre forum, and is here as well and we're delighted to have Jane Jackson with us from u h y for our leader Weiss limited Jamie really appreciate you being with us this morning, and how we're going to do this is we're going to look at the TW S S E ws s and the pup. I'm going to pose some questions that you all saw which were on the, on the theater Forum website but please add in your questions as well and then we can move through them too so Anna is going to be keeping an eye on the chat. So, just because we're sort of doing things slightly chronologically and I know a lot of us are dealing with just the kind of the legacy of TW s s at the moment, we're going to talk about that part first, and Jane, we were speaking about. Can you tell us a little bit about the TW s s closing all that off, tax liabilities for employees, and how, how we might all handled us.
Okay. All right, the TW SS came in last March, and was basically what until last August the end of last August, it was a subsidy scheme. So what happened was initially the subsidy wasn't to be taxable on the employee, we've seen since then it has become taxable on the employee, and that's what's happening now is that, please may have seen that, they are getting a preliminary statement from revenue to say that they have a liability for 2020. So that subsidy scheme ended in, in the end of August 2020 basically. So, the preliminary revenue statement from revenue has come through, and that may show that you are taxed for 2020
Now, what sort of options do employees have if they have a tax liability.
Okay, there's revenue won't be very helpful on this matter at all now to be honest with you, basically, most people are being pointed towards harassed online account revenue my account. This will only help certain people to get an idea of what the liability will be because if you're self assessed, then you have to do a tax return form and basically then the pointing you towards that find out what your liability is in contact revenue and ask them to give you the liability, they won't give it to you the putting all of this basically back onto the taxpayer. Now, that's the first problem, and that's a problem that most people are gonna have to try to calculate the tax themselves or the Galactica context and want to actually do that for them to find out what the liability is once you have that liability, then there are three options available to you. You can pay yourself. Now, you can ask revenue to put it through your tax credits for the next four years so basically what will happen is your tax credits will reduce. And you'll pay more tax on a month by month basis over the next four years to actually get that liability paid off. Or you can ask your employer to pay it for you. If you ask your employer to pay for you it has to be done by the end of June this year. What will happen after the end of June this year is your employer pays it for you, they'll be deemed to be a benefits in case, you'll end up paying tax on that benefits in case the revenues put the concession in place to say that if you were employed pays it for you by the end of June this year, lots of benefits in case it can just be paid and then it comes about.
Do you feel that there's one in particular that that will work best for people or do you think people need to figure that one out with their employers themselves or
I think it depends on that on a, on a person by person basis because obviously there's going to be employers that are struggling more than other employers, there may be some employers who are coming through this in not such a bad situation as other employers, and I'm thinking maybe in terms of I don't know, certainly some of some of your industry, maybe, for example, really wouldn't maybe have the cash flow to pay liability on behalf of the employees in terms of that situation then probably taking the option to have it paid over the next four years, would be the best thing to do maybe thinking about the liability of say 1000 Euro 90 by four years will take months you're looking at paying 20 euro and tax every month so it's not going to hit you that hard if you choose that option spreads over the next four years. Jane,
can I just interject there and there's no obligation for the employer to pay, is that correct.
That's right. That's right, no obligation for them to pay and so on.
So the employer, the employee can ask her when the employer could actually say, say no and therefore in that circumstance, it's back to the individual themselves of how they want to handle it. And the four years that Jane refers to actually starts
from next year Jane 2020 Yeah, that's the next year. Yeah, and in fact if your employer does pay for you if they do say that they will pay for, like, Allison say there's no obligation. There's no corporation tax deduction for that either so that the employer doesn't get a benefit of actually paying that liability for you
that that probably won't be relevant for a lot of the organization's on this call though Jane could said probably be exempt from it, yeah.
And if anyone has any specific, I'm going to ask some kind of a explainer to me like I'm six questions now, but if anyone has any questions that that please do add them in and we'll come to there so. So if you're, if you are an employee, that is, you're not you don't you're not self assessed in any way you just straightforward to have a salary and you have this, the place that you're going to find if you have a liability is by logging into your, your, your My account on Ross is not right. That's right. I'm
sorry through gamma you log into revenue My Account basically and then you go to manage your tax 2020 And once you've looked at when it is at 2020 There is an option at the top, choose a preliminary end of your statement. And that's what that will give you the information about the tax that's going on.
And then at that point then you're able then to select in that in that section whether you want to add it onto your tax credits or you could then go and have a conversation with your employer about that.
Yes you can. Yeah,
okay. And if, if you are if you are if you are on a salary, have an income, pay pa ye but also might have other income coming from other places, so you self assess as well. You're not going to be able to see that liability at the moment is that correct,
you will be able to see a liability when you go in and prepare your tax return. Okay, problem is it won't specifically give you the liability relating to that income, it will calculate the liability as a whole on your total income. And that's the same for jointly assessed people as well, it will give you the tax on the total income for yourself and the spouse.
And what is there, so that's, that's basically submitting a form 11
Or a form. Okay, um,
what would people need to be doing that at this current time or is that something that they could wait until October to do.
They can wait until October, unless they want their own the option of having their employer pay that liability. By the end of June.
Okay. By the end of June. Okay, that's that is important. And are you keeping an eye on the chat there is there anything that I'm.
There's a few very relevant questions. There's the first one is if the employer is paying that tax. The tax that the on the employee can the employer deal directly with revenue, or it does the employer need to pass the employee on to revenue, and if it's the latter, what's the best way to make the payment. If it goes through payroll, there's a suggestion that it will be taxed the payment will be taxed and, and the individual or the employee may not have the ability to generate an invoice.
Okay, there's two options if the employer is gonna pay for you. So basically, they can go back to that December 2020 payroll, and they can increase the tax elements of the payroll for December 20 and pay the tax through that. Or they can actually hand you the money, and you can pay that tax liability.
But I think I think the question Jane is and will if the employer is going to pay it, will they deal directly with revenue and the answer to that is yes as
well it depends. Now, the employer pays it through payroll. They deal directly with revenue but if the employer hands you the money, then the employee then is paying it through their own email account.
But the easiest way is employer to pay it and not run it through the payroll, the employees, or the employer No, because the employer can pay it with no tax consequence. Direct.
Yeah and it has to go through the employee, it does. Okay, so it has to come through the employee that does know if, if you
rerun your December payroll, as the employer, you pay the money direct revenue and there's no tax implications for
the, for the employee. That's right, yeah. December payroll the employer pays it down on its revenue, but then it's going to the employee for them to pay, then the employee, the employer pays the employee the cash, and the employee pays the revenue.
And just before we come on, there's another question here in the chat, but just to say that, to clarify that if people are temporarily on payroll, is that this tax liability follows them to their next, what would be, you know, On a payroll job doesn't it, it stays with them.
Oh absolutely and it's not always that they leave their employment that are going to leave that like that. And that might be something that people need to think about as well if they're going to leave and employment. If they want to discuss the option of their employer paying it. They need to discuss the options before delete them.
And we've a few other questions here just on any update from revenue or any more information on revenue. If people received excess TW s s amounts and the need to repay them, I think the period in question that's mentioned by Elizabeth here was the 26th of March, the fourth of May in 2020
Yeah, that was the transitional phase so most people did receive too much freedom let's ask them. The situation with revenue at the moment is they requested as a CSV file being uploaded to them before that, before the end of last October. What's happening is that revenue only just now, this week actually only just now looking at those TW SS that are in the CSV files that were uploaded, they intend to look at those from the middle of March to the end of June. And that's when they're gonna come back with any queries and ask for any access to do.
So it's important, if anyone is unsure about how their TW SS played out to get that checked really with their with their accountant at the moment, isn't it.
Yeah, I would like we were discussing earlier and it is very important to keep an eye on us. Ross online accounts because revenue at the moment are sending out a lot of letters basically asking people to look at some anomalies in their payrolls, to make sure that they don't have to pay back to AWS.
And I think there was quite a timeline because a lot of people felt that they had completed all the due diligence around a TW SS last September, October, and yet there have been less you're sitting in Ross in the last few weeks for people to revisit all of that which is, I suppose, cause for alarm. And even though it can mostly be resolved with the information that they have already, and somebody has suggested that they paid the employees tax by running an extra pay an extra payroll run or fortnightly run, and after. Was it the F 26 and sage called as this presents just a bonus room, so the payment was made, but it didn't impact on pay, but it merely rectified the income tax and us see liabilities for that
is that a mechanism that you think is a useful way to, or an effective way to deal with it if the employer is in a position to pay,
I'd be a little bit concerned about that in terms of prsi weeks, I wouldn't want to do that in the prsi weeks for the year. And what revenue the revenue instructions are basically to go on to Ross and just increase the tax liability that you're paying over for December, so you don't need to run it to your parents or basically just going to your RAs, going through payroll submission amended payroll submission, increase your tax. Okay, it's over that way.
Do we have any other questions on TW SS, that would be helpful at this stage. It feels like the big takeaways are to talk to your accountant if you need some help to make sure that you have that everything is correct because the end of June is a really important point in that because at that point, revenue if they thought there was an anomaly there could ask for a clawback, isn't that
correct. That's right, they can do. Yeah,
yeah, okay, and
employers to make a decision on whether they're going to pay the TW SS on behalf of people. And it is important to separate out what, what part of any of the liability relates to TW SS, Because you will have a lot of people who like to say we're on temporary or a number of weeks, but they also might have been receiving the COVID payment, or they could have been working for other employers. They want to ascertain how much TW SS related to the employment that you had that person for, Because you should only take on that liability.
Okay, and there's, is there a specific deadline on when employees need to make a decision as to how they want to proceed with that liability
only in terms of I do want my employer to pay for them. After that, then you told me that you were looking at the end of the year and only because they're not going to bring anything into your tax credits, until 2022. Obviously you're going to have the 31st of October deadline for your tax return form as well.
And Jay and I assume anybody who isn't former 11 based on just employees and revenue here no communication I assume revenue will actually take the call to reduce the tax credits if they don't hear from the person.
I say, Well, isn't it, I don't think they'll just demand no thing I think they will just automatically change it.
Okay, um, if everyone's okay with that, I mean if something else comes up, we can come back to it, obviously, but it feels like maybe now we should move on to the E W SS. I'm just going to post the questions that I had already kind of spoken to Jane and Allison about. And so we're going to talk about ew SS eligibility in 2021 income calculations rates payable, all that kind of stuff, Jane,
do you want to
switch tracks to ew SS,
yes the EW SS eligibility basically is this, this is where the situation changed slightly, is that the TW SS basically was an option that went from revenue through the employer to the employee, whereas the AWS s and I was just support for the employer, it doesn't actually have to even reach the employee, and as long as they're getting a salary at the end of it now. So, the subsidy scheme came in and it's based on a downturn in turnover that downturn in turnovers 30% Okay, and it has to be, well, it depends on your year ends and things like that when your business is set up, but really it's basically comparing the same, the same months of this year 2021 Two the same monster 2019 and seeing if you have a 30% downtime business
will always be compared to 20, it's 2019 Definitively because obviously
there are some exceptions now basically the if you if you started your business after 2019 There are some exceptions to that. And if people want to send me an email afterwards I can give you the information for that rather than go through them now but, but for most people it will be that you comparing, like with like President Obama 2019
We, at the moment, if anyone has any specific AWS has questions if you want to pop them in now, and at the moment the information we have is that the AWS ES is on track until the end of June. And we don't have any further information about that but we are in theta forum we are cognizant of the fact that even if AWS s ends at the end of June, it doesn't mean to say that we, as businesses will be able to get back to the income levels that we were out. So there's definitely, there's something in that that we're going to be looking at going forward with our partners and other resource organizations, because we might need to make a case around us. The questions just come in here on ew SS in turn over taking the entire income, or different types of income arts consequences slightly increased but guarantees artistic income is very much reduced, we have generated new types of income but the strictly artistic income guarantees box office is very much reduced. The big question. Should the Arts Council grants be regarded as part of turnover.
So I actually
think I took two things together but they make sense.
I think you should be looking at so of Lincoln 2021 Compared to 2019. So in 2019 your income included the Arts Council and company should be comparing like with like. 2019. Okay,
sorry, Eva. I hope I kind of got that question in properly so you're saying basically, if you've generated new types of income, but the strictly artistic income is very much reduced, it's just totally, you're just looking at as in a totally.
A lot of places have changed how they do things and they've obviously had to come up with new ways of creating income, but from revenues perspective, they're treating it all as income, income,
do we treat restricted income, the same way as general income, we would have specific restricted like certain Arts Council grant consideration, stuff like that.
Okay, and what would you not considered restricted income as your income in 2019
No I think restricted income is more in the sense that you're, you're in an arts council or other funder relationship you're told you're basically indicated how to spend that money. But I think it's down to that income is income thing again isn't that I believe it would be okay.
Can, can we just, maybe it's both Alison and Jane, and there is, there has been quite a lot of conversation around the offers of funding and vamos want to come in on this as well. And I think most people's offers a funding, have been described as unrestricted funding, but there is some direction as to how that money should be distributed across the various activities, just from an auditing point of view and from a revenue point of view, and it just needs to be we just need to be very clear that unrestricted income is unrestricted income, Because if it's treated in any way differently in reporting to the revenue eligibility for AWS s, it carries forward into your audited accounts, and the treatment of restricted income into the future is very problematic and brings with this additional layer of reporting, and how you manage those funds into the future. So I just, it's just a clarification that unrestricted income should always be taken as unrestricted income, and regardless of force. Conditions are attached to that or what direction is attached to that. It's just, I think it's important from an accounting point of view, and a reporting point of view in the future. Is that your understanding.
Yeah so separately from the AWS s criteria, and I suppose what Anna is trying to say is, when you do your accounts, you've got to, you've got two income streams, the restricted one which can only be spent on X, Y, Zed, and then an unrestricted one can be used for any burdens of the organization. So you're restricted obviously you want to use as much of that as possible on the criteria because you don't want to carry forward with a restriction that you can only spend certain money in the bank on items that you may or may not have a carry forward of, so it is important that the restricted, income, and typically on the organizations that we are restricted once doesn't cover the restricted expense. So typically, it's all about how you show those in your accounts calculate the moat and make sure that it shown that, okay, even though we received restricted income for this project or this category of expense the expense actually was significantly higher and we had to use someone restricted income for that so we don't have to carry forward at the end your accounts are restricted element of the income. So it's important when you're cash buyers know for your financials that you identify the restricted expenses against restricted income and likewise are not unrestricted.
That makes sense on it.
And we did another question there just around income for a capital project. Is there any special consideration there.
I would suggest, if, if there's one off, I would say, and, and there's, there is a case to be made, I would suggest that the organization contact revenue, I think we were saying, Jane, and because I do know that people received capital grants, and, and obviously there was there was new funders and there was an amount allocated by the government. So I would if people are saying, this shouldn't be taken into account and we feel because of the nature of it that we shouldn't take it into account, then I'd suggest to my inquiry to Ross, just to clarify, and then you're totally upfront about it and there's no risk,
just maybe, Allison in relation to some people, and later this year. Other people may be applying for stabilization funds from the Arts Council. Our stabilization is income, or an award under the stabilization fund is that to be treated directly as income.
The revenue are, to me, could take a very just straight up view that income is income like we said, like if you think of older industries and it doesn't apply, apply to this but a lot of people had to move to online sales. Okay, it's a total new way of doing things for revenue we're saying you've made up your income we don't really care how he's made it up. So you don't need our support anymore. So, you know, like I said if people have. If they really feel that shouldn't be taken into account, I would suggest to my inquiries, but in my initial thought is income as income
is a bit of a sort of maybe it's a bit of a naughty issue in the chat at the moment which is trying to maybe look at the differences in how revenue we're encouraging people to look at their reduction income under the T. WS S scheme, and now wonder the E ws S scheme because it feels like a 30% reduction in say box office income and or general income but mostly box office was our 25% Sorry, was the, was the TW s s measure, but what you're suggesting is for ew SS, it's a 30% reduction on all income, is that a difference,
they did change the rules. That's why they changed the whole scheme name, and they did change the rules change, if you want to just clarify on
that. Yeah, they did. Thank you. Well, yeah, basically. So in the AWS, that's the actual narrative say the business expected to experience a 30% reduction in turnover orders. So that's it has to be the disruptions caused by COVID-19 as well so a 30% reduction in turnover orders is what revenue required to qualify for the USA.
And they obviously changed had a tax ID as well, where the TW SS, I suppose it was obviously an emergency. An emergency state that was brought in, and they hadn't fully thought it through. And there was some subjective, some subjectivity to it, where AWS s is just across the board, same for everybody. Yes,
there's one there maybe we've already answered this, but in considering the relative incomes of 2019 2020 Do we have to consider that in terms of cash received some grants go for activity over the whole year, but may have been received in the period in question.
What is the 30% downturn in turnover orders, so it's not necessarily the cash receipt. So you just got access but it depends on the business by business point of view as to how your business operates, whether it is your cash flow has been affected, or whether you're, you can actually go on an order basis rather than a cash flow basis. It's, it's really it's going to be specific to every person.
I come in on this one. Briefly I come in on this one. Of course, My practice my view and practice has been if that that unrestricted income an ordinary grant from the Arts Council should be apportioned for the for the purposes of ew Ws and budgets, generally, over the year on a time basis, not by when it's received, because we live very often these days the art counselors event and other organizations that are advancing money very early in the year. So in other words, not when cash received it's when it's a portion over the years. So, when divided by 12 and it's so much a month and that's that's the way I've always done it for budgets and reporting purposes internally. And that's the approach I've taken as regards TW S S and E ws s. Now I don't know whether that's the correct way, but it seems sensible to me because that's the way one that when it comes for internally. Always. I wonder I wonder what the professionals, he was on that one.
To be honest with you, David, I don't have much experience in dealing with your business now, so I can't really comment on the, on the ground that you see there maybe Allison has more.
So obviously, Jane most of the grants will be issued for a time period, and most of them from the Arts Council in particular are for a year. And some might go over two years depending on who the funder is. So, typically,
unless it's project based the Arts Council one in particular is normally spread over a 12 month period, and particularly would have been on restricted because it's for the furtherance of the organization. If you receive funding for a specific project that's happening in a particular month, or a particular season, then, typically when they, when people would do their budgets and forecasts, they would show the income released as the expenses are going out and what yeah it is typically for either a period or a project. Yeah,
but more or less could occurs with a feeling. And I would argue strongly with revenue if they if they if they if they came with me without it. I could strongly that they are wrong and wrong when it comes to that sort of an annual grant.
And that was the conclusion I think that's a fairly lengthy discussion David around this issue, the last time, concluded that apportioning particularly an annual grant, you know over the 12 months was the, was the correct way to do it. Yeah. And the only difficulty is if there's, if there's very significant project funding or other funding at a particular time of the year. And that project is very time defined in that, you know, in that month or quarter, then that's probably the that's probably the more difficult situation to, to present,
but you won't want us to adopt a different approach on that occasion, I think that's perfectly reasonable because, for instance, in that case I'm thinking over the background given of 15,000 for a tour later that leisure in 20 2021 Well, that, that would obviously we just regardless as income for the month or so that the tour is taking place or being planned or taking place or not, will not be apportioned over the year but over the two or three months when the planning and the tour is taking place. I think that's entirely consistent with good practice generally as regards management accounts.
it's released, it's released in line with the period that the expenditure is incurred.
This one just came in there and the chance, if, if you're collecting rent holds for a local authority on Studios, which are transferred to the local authority so in other words it's money in but it's money straight out again. Do you need to contract revenue to have that exempted.
Well if the if the if the organization was doing it in 19 as well. It probably is irrelevant. So maybe it's only if it's a new source.
I'm not sure about that actually.
Just explain that only a little bit, they collect rentals on behalf of Dolan Yeah.
All right. They use us.
So we're managing Creative Hub Studios on behalf of the current council that gives us a management fee for that what we collect the rental to be transferred to them funny sort of money in and out of our way, where you're doing
that 19 as well. And as
we were but I don't know, we managed commander but I just concerned about just being taken in like, you know if, because, because there really wasn't much rentals be honest in 2019 because the studios were closed during the COVID, but it's just if they reopen again, my concern is that, you know that could impact.
I'd say that that would actually work, possibly in your favor because 19 It would have been open and 21 It won't be. Yeah,
well it wasn't open for most, some from some, some parts during 2019 No 2020
March 2020 2019 should be a large part in 21, in that instance. Yeah,
no it's just as if we were to open again like sourcing and it was also there was talk of another, like a production company having funds comment to a funding grant coming to us but we then we transferred to them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that kind of you know, when I have seen that happen on on a few instances that that you know obviously, you act as an intermediary, and it's something we nearly advise against in so far as the reason why you're doing it for them is maybe they're not set up independently, we would show that on our accounts as a balance sheet item, so not on an income and expenditure which shows, as you've been a third party person in motion, you're obviously just taking on from a, from a, from a company point of view, you're taking on the liability of an individual which isn't necessarily the best but from an income perspective we would show that as a balance sheet item as money in rather than an income and expenditure accounts.
so I'm not too sure how your accountants or auditors treated but that's how I've treated in the past.
Okay, that's good to know. Thanks.
Does anyone else have any questions that they'd like to ask on those kind of broad areas
do if so pop them into the chat, the only outstanding one we had was, we were talking a little bit about the pandemic unemployment payments, and obviously for that has been tough,
that that will be taxed in real time in 2021. When a person returns to work. So, I suppose for employers if they're taking someone on on if they have a pup tax liability, how that might be handled or and what the implications are for that Jane and 2022, the pandemic unemployment benefit wasn't taxed in real time, which meant that basically the, the tax liability accrued until the end of the year and then we're seeing a rise in 2021 for last year. What's happening now is revenue tweeting in the same way as they would treat a maternity benefit for example so they're actually in real time changing the tax credits for employees to account for the tax on the beauty now. So you'll see if anyone is on the view the, the tax credits will get reduced. That means you pay more tax on your income, that may be that no tax arises if that's the only income that you have your tax credits make and make a bit of cover up. But that's that's what's happening is that if someone goes and claims that pandemic unemployment benefit even for a couple of weeks, come back to work again you'll see the tax credits and reduce take into account the tax arising on that. So that's effectively happening automatically through revenue. Yeah, and people are getting a bit of a shock now to be honest with you because they don't understand why the tax credits have changed so dramatically and evolving after a couple of weeks, but they do go back quite quickly revenue is actually getting quite quickly and changing it back again. So it's all the benefits in real time payroll now.
Someone just asked a question there can staff on pop who are laid off be temporary, temporarily reemployed for a couple of weeks and still be entitled to easily return to the payment.
Yes. Not at the moment. Yes, definitely.
So long, and Jane that they would be entitled to the pub, so long as they lose, lose their job due to the pandemic rather than just made unemployed isn't that correct because there is a difference in the unemployment payment, and the pub payment.
That's a very good point, actually, I suppose we were thinking more more before about people being being on pop and then taking something for a couple of weeks and then going back on it, but it's different, maybe if it's, well it's not different, but you're right you need that clarification that it's because of the pandemic.
Yeah, because the unemployment, I think is two or three, where the Pope is potentially 350 You know, so we'll make a difference to people to have that. And fanola You just put your hand up there a little while ago. Was there a question.
Yeah, I was just gonna put it in the chat there but just a very quick question. In relation to you know working out your,
your turnover, I presumed that the E waste is not included in that turnover, so that's before you receive the money 100% Yeah just I'm just double checking.
Yeah sure, you would exclude. That's correct, you would exclude the monies that you're receiving in relation to the EW SS when calculating the income for 2021.
Okay so, actually there's a question there as well, but really around the same things that we received a backlog of ew SS payments in January February that are proper to 2020 Should we be counting these as income for 2020 Or is it okay to keep them in 2021 accounts from the audit point of view, it's not income that was that right.
Well, it would be, would be correct to treat it as an income and to the period that it related to which is the 2020 year so you received the money into the bank in 2021 Jane, this is the incidence but it relates to your payroll of 2020. So in that instance it would be. It should be accrued accrued income in your 2020, again,
there's one question for what do you include in your accounts. And the next question is what you included as your income, revenue. So that was instead of looking at your accounts you have to include it as your income that you're looking at your turnover, then you wouldn't bring the AWS s in as your return.
And again just just the point that we're comparing 2019 Which, obviously there was no effect of COVID versus 2021. When we're looking at the criteria.
I just want to maybe I'm going back a little bit but I got an email question around someone who's basically jointly assessed, and they do a joint tax return. But, uh, but when this person is logging in to Ross basically the tax bill that's due as to see the tax bill that's due as a result of TW SS. However, in addition to that, there's a figure for social welfare, that doesn't seem to tally with anything they received. They got a statement from the Department of Social protection for 2020, and they have that person down as receiving payments which they didn't know, and they're assuming that incorrect social welfare figures in placing their tax bill as it's down to pump so they need to kind of clarify all that, yeah,
yeah, that's the kind
of thing happening to anyone else or
it's unusual Jane that that they would have because most of our records would be accurate that people were on the Pope or TW SS or a bit of both. Yeah. Have you seen people have been incorrectly on a case,
I have. Yeah, to be honest with you I think because of the speed everything happened last year I think there's a lot of confusion in the background and social welfare, have given figures to revenue that aren't necessarily correct for the employee concern so is this a glitch in the system, or where people lose a lot of people's PPS numbers could be proud. It can be done so many see in the newspapers this week this 100 Nights 7000 or something that someone claimed incorrectly somebody out that it could be both. It could be a bit of fraud or it could be it could be just an incorrect amount. So I think that's one thing, it's probably something you need to get working on quickly because I don't see that that's revenue and social welfare acting that rapidly to try and resolve that, and certainly needs to be paid back, so I would initially contact the Department of Social Protection, try and figure out who should have got that handout with that unemployment benefits or whatever the benefit was just to clear that up and then obviously then once you get that answer then you can say,
okay, and then you'd contact my inquiries and ask them to release that income from yours because obviously you don't want to be taxed on that.
Thanks for that,
and is there any other, they were the main questions that we had kind of coming into the meeting. If there's any other questions people would like to ask now or if there's anything you feel, Jane or Allison that we missed talking about that's really important.
I want to cover it very quick question on P up just as a matter of interest. Does the revenue have real time information from social protection about P O P payments, or is that does anybody know I mean, are they really working in real time on that.
I believe they are they to be honest with you ever seen it happen very quickly that an employee will go off will be made unemployed will go off work or claim the unemployment benefits, their tax credits will change, and within a couple of weeks they'll change back again. So I think when you say real time certainly within a couple of weeks revenue and social protection are a couple of weeks, but it's pretty straight pretty,
pretty good communication between the two departments though.
Yeah. Yeah and I think that that would be
I think that that would have led on from before, they weren't necessarily talking to people about maternity benefits and I think they've got the experience now, because if people are taking maternity leave Jane would see that effect tax credits pretty quick now as well so I think that was the start of the link open that helps them do this for the Pope. Yeah.
And what we, what we might do is, we might work a little bit on maybe pulling together some a little kind of a FAQ about some of the things we talked about today because I think there's quite a lot of information and I know personally, I found it at times quite difficult to understand exactly the best way forward. So we might do that coming out today and we'll put that on the website. And obviously if anyone has any additional questions, they're always more than welcome to send them into us. I just saw Oh, there's one more question just to double check to qualify for AWS payments in 2021 income reduced by 30% of Arts Council grants are included in this income.
But again the apportionment whatever apportionment you would normally do.
Okay, well, unless I'm
sorry I mean you might, you might have covered it when I lost a connection there, in the last few minutes, but just to just to confirm, and you know from Gene analysis point of view, that new hires, and including artists, as we go into further into 2021 are all eligible, in terms of the EW SS scheme is that is not all new hires can be, and can be taken into account in an application for support. Isn't that right,
yeah, there are a couple of exceptions in terms of hesitates, they all new hires, and in the instance where someone has a payroll and they employ someone who's a connected member of their family, then that person wasn't on the payroll in 2020 for the early part of 2020 that they can't claim a subsidy for them. But otherwise, all new hires will qualify,
including artists, and, and they can go on payroll, and the W scheme can be applied to everybody.
Yeah. Yes, yeah. Okay,
well listen, I think that's it for this morning. As I said we're going to put something on the website about this, including a recording, and, yeah, if anyone has any additional questions, please send them through to us, and we'll do our best. But for now, I'd really like to thank Jane and Alison, so much for sharing your knowledge with us. We really appreciate it.
And we just want to we have everybody just to conclude on another issue which was a concern to people in December in January, and we've had a response from Imro, and they will be consulting with the sector, starting next week, And about payments and royalties in relation to streamed performances, and there will be an opportunity for us to gather together at any venue and Art Center in theater that is being will be involved in payments to Imro over the coming years, and whatever hybrid models of presentation we're all going to be involved in. So that consultation will convene that meeting with him row in the coming weeks, but expect to get a survey from him row in the coming week. Thanks everybody and see you see in the next few weeks. I
thank you airmet Did you ask for me to stay on.
sorry I just amused as well. Sorry.