Okay, so this is February 28. I'm here with Dylan Logan. And my name is Katelyn Lough, and we are here to be doing the interview today with Mr. Billo Harper. Mr. Harper, can you please verify that you're aware you're being interviewed and this conversation will be recorded?
Yes, I approve of the audio recording. I don't approve or give any rights of use of my images, my images, but my image in relationship to these questions, but all audio, all comments that I make may be used as needed. And I give approval.
Yes, sir. Thank you so much for being with us today. So to start off the interview, we're going to start with the first question, I believe all of these you have received already. So when did you attend the Simms School?
Okay, can you do your introduction again? Your name and Logan's name?
Of course. So my name is Katelyn Lough.
And I'm Dylan Logan.
And Katelyn, what year are you at Turner Ashby?
I'm a senior at Turner Ashby
And Logan?
I'm a junior.
Okay. All right. I am ready. Logan and Katelyn. Let's go.
Alright. So when did you attend Simms School?
I attended Lucy Simms segregated school in 1957 to 1963 when the school closed. I think it closed in '63. But anyway, when it closed...
I believe you're right. Yes. Okay. So did you graduate from the Simms School?
Yes. I graduated from the middle school of Simms and then I- It only went to the sixth grade when I was there. And after that, I went to Thomas Harrison Middle School in Harrisburg High.
Okay, so how did you get to the Simms School every day?
The entire Newtown community which was the Black community known as where the Blacks live. We walked to school every day. Everybody [laughs]. Everybody walked school.
Alright, so it wasn't like nobody drove any cars?
No. I mean, people - some people - had cars, but we still didn't--we just walked school.
Okay.
You was an adolescent, you know. Whether you was with your mother or father or just with a guardian who took care of you. And someone had a car, they went wherever they was going, but you walked to school.
Even if you were say 10 miles away, you would walk out?
Now 10 miles away like people from Elkton, they caught a bus...
Okay, there was a bus.
The people from Luray [as well] because it was segregated. So, Blacks that lived in Luray, lived in Elkton, which is Rockingham County.
Yes.
They all caught a bus and rode into Simms, which they had to get up like 5:30 or 6:00 in the morning. They'd get up early. [Laughs] I just came out of my back door.
[Laughs] So you were close to the Simms School?
My house was- My house connected to Simms. Lucy F. Simms School was my playground.
Oh, really? Really? That's amazing.
Ain't that cool?
Yes. That's the same. So I'm next to Pence Middle School. So, I understand when you say that it's your playground.
Me too actually, I used to live next to the elementary school when I went there.
Ain't it beautiful?
Beautiful yes [laughs].
It's a funny coincidence.
So, this bus that you mentioned, was it... So when we--in our classroom--we learned that many of the things were passed down. Was the bus also passed down from like...
I have no idea because I never rode it.
Okay. All right. I gotcha.
Yeah.
So what do you recall from the beginning of your experience at the Simms School?
The school was an extension of the family and community that raised us.
Yes. We spoke to a few of--some of your classmates. I don't recall their names right now. But they said the community was very strong. It's very tight-knit community here.
Yes. Yes. It was very tight, Newtown. It was a community and so your home life and your school life was all one and the same.
Oh, wow. So everyone knew everyone.
Oh! It was no question. No question. No question.
That's great. So were there any specific staff members that you were close to or that you remember very well?
Well, my kindergarten teacher was Miss Blakey and you know, she was really unique. She provided me with the foundation for learning. There was a Miss Awkard Fairfax. She was also the co-director of pianists for the Simms Mass Choir. I'm quite sure you have seen that mass choir picture.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, she was educated at Columbia University Teachers College. And she helped me learn the importance of applying myself when doing homework. Also, I'd like to mention Dr. David Hedgley. He was a high school science teacher on the second floor. At Simms, the elementary and middle school was on the first floor and on the second floor was the high school.
So we're on the second floor right now.
Okay, wonderful. So if you go visit Simms and you go up on the second floor, that was high school.
Yes. We're in what they call the music room right now. So we're in the Simms School. And right before...
Wait, you're in the Simms School now?
Yes. Yes, sir.
[Excitedly exclaims] Oh! You guys are interviewing me from Simms?
Yeah
I was getting ready to tell y'all that class right there. That was my sixth-grade class.
This right here. Wow.
You can look out the window and see my house.
Whoa what!
Yes, you can look out the window and see my house!
[All laugh] That's amazing!
Oh, also, I wanted to talk about the science teacher, Dr. David Hedgley. I never forget him because my sister and other relatives took his class. And he went--he was only at Simms for one year. He was a science teacher. And he's known as the father of computer graphics. He's a genius! He's 86 years old now. And he left Simms and went to NASA and became a scientist.
Wow.
He created computer graphics. So, Todd, Katelyn whenever you get a chance, type in Dr. David Hedgley in your Google search and it's gonna come up 'the father of computer graphics'. He taught at Simms.
That's amazing.
But he only taught one year.
One year. Did you have him for that one year?
No, he's high school. He was upstairs.
Okay. I gotcha. So what was the curriculum or grading like at Simms School? Did any of you have any difficulty with it? Or did you help each other out?
No, it wasn't for me any issues... major issues. Because we had master teachers. Okay. All of them were Black and had been educated at schools like Howard University, Virginia Union, Fisk, Hampton. And they were all educated from HBCUs. And they were exceptional teachers. Now, sure, there was some young people that had--might have had challenges or learning challenges. But the reality of those challenges was that, you know, they would... What would I say? They would, you know, get attention that they needed. And, you know, that's just the way that came down. Yeah.
Yeah. And those teachers were willing to help. They were very willing to help them.
Yeah. And then you had some students that were disruptive. And we had some teachers that would straight up just tell you, "Bend your knuckles and hold it out like this." And BOOM! That's right. There was no play. I mean, and this was third and fourth grade. So you knew he was getting a spanking in front of all your classmates.
And is this Miss Awkard Fairfax that you're talking about?
No, no. I'm not gonna say the name of that teacher.
Oh, you're not going to say, okay.
No. You know, you have to get that in another conversation. Maybe we talk in private.
Of course, of course. Yes.
I'm not gonna put one of my favorite teacher's name out there and say, "Oh, she beat you on the knuckles,"' because she did a lot of other things, too.
Oh, of course. We understand. When we were talking with some of the fellow students of your classmates that used to go to the Simms School, they said that Miss Awkard was very well respected with the school.
And she was a pianist and she was the co-director of the Simms Mass Choir. You see her picture? When you see that picture, you see her standing over on the one side down on the bottom?
Yeah.
And then she was a master pianist. Well, she didn't play. No, she didn't play. But all the teachers had ways of disciplining if you went, excuse me, if you was, you know, acting up. We didn't have social media. We didn't have social media and phones and all of that.
So you just talked.
Oh, you gotta... It's talking. Yeah. Talking and acting up. Pushing your friend next to you. And yeah, smack him upside the head [laughs]. Stuff like that... Adolescent stuff.
Yes, of course. So, during your time there... When it came to lunchtime, what were the meals like? What was the community like? Did you... Who did you sit with? Where did you sit?
The food was good. The chef was a local resident of Newtown and was a master cook. The food was also locally grown from local farms. Although we had some manufactured food from some warehouse that the city of Harrisonburg School System, you know. And they were sending food by a truck. But many times, the chef who was in the kitchen, her and most of the time, it was a female, in my years. And Miss Washington was the chef. And I mean, the food was like you had it from your kitchen table at home.
Oh, that's amazing. So, what were your favorite parts of the school? What events did you participate in? What activities?
What I want to say about that is... Let me see here. I want to be sure I covered this... May Day!
May Day, yes.
May Day was special. Basketball games that we played other schools. Because I was the basketball manager. And y'all seen the picture with me? Right? As the basketball manager?
I believe so. Once or twice. Yes.
Y'all seen it? Yeah. Yeah, I was the basketball manager of Lucy F. Simms. Y'all not gonna have a problem picking me out, are you?
Oh my... [laughs]
Y'all can't pick me out. I'm 10 years old. Can you pick me out? Where am I?
You're far left on the top row. Yes, sir.
Hey, Logan. I was 10-years-old, man.
Yeah.
So that's why I'm saying it's my playground. So when they would go around to Stanton, Winchester, Richmond, Lexington, Clifton Forge, Madison County, Orange County. I would- My mother was working. So after school, the guys would get on the bus and little Billo... I would get on the bus. And I was 10 years old. I'd be carrying the balls and the uniforms. And I did that for like, probably four or five years.
Wow.
So that was what you did after school? Most of the time.
Yeah. And don't ask me when I got homework done [Katelyn laughs]. During basketball season, and I wasn't a particularly bright student, I mean, I'd struggle.
Okay. So how long did that season last? The basketball season? Was it in the fall?
Probably, you know, at least three or four months.
Okay. So, you mentioned May Day. Can you expand on that? What was it like? What was the start of the day and what was the end of the day?
You know, May Day was a fun day. And it was acknowledging that spring had arrived. Wrapping the flagpole in the front of the building with confetti paper was the official May Day ceremony. And concerts, food, and school activities made it fun for the whole day. And most of the time, I mean, you know, they had the May Day Queen and so that meant all the mothers and grandmothers and aunts would do dresses for all the girls... And I mean, you know, fellas, we didn't... It didn't mean nothing to us. But the girls would dress up. And then the fellas, it was just a fun day. And it was May Day. It was the first Friday of May. That was May Day.
So to your knowledge did May Day.... Did that happen at every other school? Or was it just at Simms?
Just Simms, as far as we know. Oh! The other Black schools. But I don't know if it happened at the white schools. I really don't know.
So..
Uou have to understand. During Jim Crow and during Newtown. Where the Blacks live. That's what Newtown meant, where the Blacks live. You have Newtown and other cities around America. And it was referred to as... y'all do your own research to see what--any other history in the context of Newtown. But Newtown was where the Blacks lived. That's where we lived in Harrisonburg. So sometimes we didn't know what was going on over by JMU or where Harrisonburg High is now. We just knew Newtown. Downtown was the divider for our community.
So...
Sometimes we didn't go past Main Street.
Okay. And because it was... It felt... divided that way. Did it ever feel suffocating? Or with that community...?
No, no, no! You didn't feel it. Now, you understood Jim Crow. I mean, the reality of the Virginia Theater that was downtown. As Blacks, we had to sit up in the balcony. So we would go to the movie and just go up to the balcony and watch the movie. We didn't think about "Oh, wow, we want to sit downstairs." Because many times our friends, some of our white friends, that we would meet over the years, they would--we would open the door and they would sneak in upstairs and watch the movie in the balcony with us.
Oh okay. How often did you see movies with your friends?
Well, when a movie will come out, I mean, remember, and this is... It's horrible. All the movies that would come out would be like Tarzan and Jane. You know, we got tired of Tarzan. Like he's a white man that can control animals. I mean... Oh, that's horrible. That's a whole other conversation. Let's stick to the script.
Okay, okay. So your friendships and relationships at Simms? Did you have a few really close friends? Or did you have a whole group of friends? Was it your whole family?
Um, we had a lot of friends. Because you live together in a community. I would... The question is...? Ask me the question again.
So can you recall your friendships or relationships that you made during your time at the Simms School?
Okay, me and my best friends... Because I had numerous best friends. We had wonderful and challenging experiences growing up Black during Jim Crow, with his functional, confrontational reality of that law and the way people's attitudes about it. But for us, we weren't walking around worried, oh, day in and day out about Jim Crow... Our adult parents may have been. The community was beautiful. We had gardens and I mean, we just loved-- We loved the Northeast, we loved Newtown. I mean, Newtown... My mother [Doris Harper Allen]. She has a book coming out about Jim Crow. But once in her earlier book, "The Way It Was, Not the Way It Is," she says in her life, she came up in the '30s and '40s. And she says, "We were poor. We had fun, but we didn't know it." And that was really interesting. And I use that and refer to that because you know, we can get all into what is poor. What is poverty? You know, depends on how you want to frame it. But in terms of our adolescent experience, Katelyn and Logan. We just lived and had a lot of fun and a lot of experiences as friends and we just, you know, we kind of kept it... We kind of kept it moving. And we love Newtown.
Great, that's good to hear. So, what kind of things did you and your friends do after school? You mentioned the movies and you mentioned basketball. But other than that?
Many of us worked around the house because you always had chores.
Yeah.
And you got community jobs, you had gardens. And then I was one of the first Black paper route boys in Harrisonburg. I delivered the Daily News Record.
Oh, wow.
I had to get up at about 4:30 in the morning, and my mother would take me to Daily News Record. And then I would get my papers, and I'd deliver papers.
So did you do this...? How long did you do this for? Throughout high school?
About four years. I think three or four. But then, that's a whole other story. In terms of being a paperboy, and then deciding that you don't feel like getting up. Then all of a sudden, you're thinking about girls and all of that. A whole lot of other stuff [laughs]. Sometimes, you know, you tired. You played basketball, football. So you don't want to get up.
Of course.
Yeah.
So you said that you had this newspaper job. But did you have any other jobs growing up as a teenager in Newtown?
Yes, I had a job. I used to go door to door with Sears and Roebucks. And people would order it. And then they would get the products delivered to their house and then I'd make money. And then I had one of my friends be my assistant.
Oh, okay.
I've been an entrepreneur all my life because of my family. I come from three generations of business owners.
Wow.
Business, I've never known a time when my family didn't own and operate their own business.
So this is, you would say your passion? It's not... You didn't feel forced into business at all?
No, it's a lifestyle.
Yeah,
Business was my lifestyle. Yeah, my grandfather's, my grandmother's. Everybody owned and operated their own businesses in Newtown. And they were destroyed by urban renewal. That's a whole other conversation. Let's stick to the script. I'm getting five minutes, and then I'm gonna have to head out.
All right. So what were some of the activities in the community that were available to you?
In terms of activities, church. Church. What happens at the church was real significant. And in the summer, we would have... I'm not recalling the name... Oh, lawn parties. We had lawn parties, and you'd play games. And lawn parties, I would say were similar like to a circus. Because, you know, the craftsmen of the community would build all kinds of playing objects for games. And then also, we had back in the day, we had a group that came to Harrisonburg from Louisiana. And what was their name... They were called... I can't think of it. I'll think of their name before it's over, or I'll mail it to you. But they used to come from New New Orleans and they would set up a tent over by Washington Street. And they would have dancers and that was like a summer program that would come to the community and they would be there for like a week in the summer. Also, we used to have we used to have our own Black baseball team that would play every Sunday. And that was like a...like a festival. Because, you know, they was playing baseball. So there was picnics. There was car shows because there was a lot mechanics always fixing cars. So they showing off the cars on Sunday. And the baseball games were right there at Lucy F. Simms. Right there on the baseball field.
Wow.
It was always kind of like I say, we stayed among ourselves.
It sounds like you had a lot of fun.
Yeah. And it was okay. I mean, there are certain challenges within a family that happen and you have to deal with it. Some of our parents went to war. And so different things happen. And it would test your family. So, you know, life is... Life is beautiful, but sometimes life isn't fair.
Of course. So as we get to kind of the closing of the interview, are there any other stories or memories that you would like to share?
Um well, you had a question here. Did you finish your questions about why we moved? There was a question.
There was, but I want to respect your time, sir.
No, but I want to finish up. I'm going to hold for another 5-10 minutes. So we can finish your questions. What's the other question?
So, I was going to ask. When did you move away from Harrisonburg and why did you move?
I moved 1970. And we moved to Huntington, West Virginia. And my mother got married. She remarried. Her second marriage. But she wanted to get us out of Newtown. She wanted to get us somewhere that was more progressive. Because she felt that there was communities happening somewhere else. And in Huntington, West Virginia. They were very progressive. They had all kinds of really unique, innovative community businesses, housing developments, and she wanted us to be around this. So when my brother and we moved to to Huntington, my brother, so he got there, he was 18. He had graduated from Harrisburg High. He got a job driving a van for this church selling fish sandwiches. Yeah, so she wanted to get us in a more progressive life. So this was 1970.
Okay, and if you could give any advice to your high school self, what would it be?
Did we miss one of the other questions?
I don't believe so.
Okay. All right. If you could give advice to your high school self? Why did you move? Okay, I answered that...
To my high school self... Wow, you got me on that one. You know, I saw that one earlier.
Take your time.
Yes, Logan, Katelyn. Let me tell you. I thought about this earlier, I saw the question, my staff is telling me, I missed it. If I could give it, I would say to myself... I would be saying, If I could have asked Mr. Hedgley if I can sweep his floor after class, and carry his bags to the car every day. That would have been just phenomenal for me to say that, Mr. Hedgley... That I swept the floor of Mr. Hedgley for three or four months. And then I'd take his books to his car. And now he's known as a father of computer graphics that we use every day. That would... That's what I would have told myself. Because I was old enough, because I had to clean at home. But when you saw me at 10 years old be a manager. So you know, I could do things.
That's great.
And I was disciplined. Because my mother... My mother and father and grandmother and grandfather, all of them... They had their own businesses. They didn't tolerate nothing but respect and discipline. So, I came up in that world [laughs]. Oh, and also I love being around geniuses. Dr. Hedgley was a genius. And he still is today.
Of course, of course.
And he still is at 86.
If you could give advice to high schoolers now, like Logan and I, what would it be?
Be open to learning from your teachers who care about you.
Yes, sir.
However, be serious about completion of assignments before they are due.
Yes, sir.
Don't be waiting. Hey, don't be waiting on the due date. Finish it. Have it ready. That's what I would recommend.
That's great advice for us. Thank you so much.
Hey, you're most welcome. Y'all take care. And I look forward to... Let me treat both of you to lunch one day in Harrisonburg. I'm up all the time. And I love to treat both of you to lunch. We can go to lunch in Dayton at one of your favorite places.
I live in Dayton.
I love Dayton. In 1970, the summer of 1970, I was a junior at Harrisburg High. I did it. I worked as a research assistant at Bridgewater College for the Department of Psychology.
Wow.
Wow.
I got--Hey! I got $750 for the summer for working two months. And I did research on the hooded rat. And I was the only one in the lab. And I would give them these little pills. And when we meet and have lunch, I'll tell you more about it. But I would give them these little pills and it was... The research project was studying the non-prescription and prescription drugs. And I did these on a hooded rat for two and a half months. From June and July. And in August, I was on a U-haul, going to Huntington, West Virginia.
Wow.
All right, y'all take care?
Well, before you go, I'd like to say thank you so much for meeting with us. And I wanted to reiterate what Mr. Van Schaick said before. James Madison University will transcribe our audio and then send it to you so you can get final approval. And then also, they will send you a consent form which you'll sign and send back to us. And once we get your final approval, it'll be up on the Simms website, and you'll be a real part of history that people can listen to, can go on that website and learn more about you and your story. So thank you so much.
The other thing that I want to be critical of in the consent form have them put my statement about the video piece, of course.
And we will make sure to add that.
And I didn't tell you, you know other things that I used to do. I used to... I used to ride and take care of horses.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah. Yeah, I was. I was a groomer for horses. But anyway. I got to head out. And it was really nice meeting you.
It was nice meeting you too.
Yes. Oh, where's Tim at? Is Tim still sitting by you?
He is not in the room with us right now. Would you like me to call for him? Or do you need to leave right now?
I need to leave but I just want to thank him.
Of course we can pass on the message.
Okay. And then where's Jennifer?
She's also... She's in the building but not in the room.
Tell Jennifer, thank you very much. And y'all were exceptional.
Thank you so much. And what is your plan after school and high school?
So I want I'm going to Bridgewater College. It's supposed to be a secret right now. But I figured I'd share that with you. I'm going to Bridgewater College.
Awww! Congratulations. I want to introduce you to my wife, Dr. Harper, who has a new program in the city and she's looking for young leaders like you and Logan.
Oh, wow. That'd be amazing.
Yeah.
She has a program now nonprofit program in downtown Harrisonburg. You can both Google: "Faces For Change."
I think I might have heard of that before, actually.
Yeah, Google it, take a look at it. And if you're interested, reach out, send her an email and say, 'I met Mr. Billo and he told me to reach out to you. I'd be very interested to know more about what you do.'
Thank you so much for letting us know.
Alright. Hey, listen, y'all take care now.
You too Mr. Harper.
Have a nice day.
Bye.
Bye bye.
Okay. All right. Are we done over here? What else we got to do? Okay, let me get off. I don't take them off. Okay.
