Welcome back to another episode of Black Feminists Rants. Today, I have a very special guest Maya Hart. Maya to start us off, can you introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns and, a little bit about yourself, or your title, or whatever feels comfortable?
Absolutely. Thanks for having me. My name is Maya. I use any pronouns. I'm based in Durham, North Carolina, but grew up in Western Massachusetts.
My paid work is with Sister Song. I am the North Carolina coordinator with Sister Song Women of Color, Reproductive Justice Collective. And then I'm also a mom to a sweet, sweet two and a half year old named June. I am a postpartum doula, certified lactation counselor, and reproductive justice organizer broadly.
And a lot of other things, but especially those.
I love that you said my paid work, like just delineating that we do so much work and so many different things. And that we're not only the paid work that we... that we're doing, as you've evidenced through all the titles that you have. So I love that you said that. And for those of you who don't know, me and Maya go way back. Maya actually knew me before the Black Feminist Rants podcast when I was working with her at Sister Song. So super excited to have you on the podcast. And we actually got to meet in person recently. So I love that since 2020, all the stars are aligning, and I'm getting to see people in person for the first time.
I know, I'm so happy to be connected to you. And it was so nice to spend time together in person. And it's just been such an honor to like watch you develop and how expansive Black Feminist Rants is becoming. Everyone knows Black Feminist Rants now. And so I'm just so honored to be here. Thank you.
I had like no idea that my project from 2020 would still be here in 2023. So it's cool to just like keep doing it until I have all the support from the team that I've had...
Yes.
But to kick us off, can you share a piece of your reproductive justice story? One thing that I've left Sister Song with, that has stayed with me is just the emphasis that we all have a story to tell and kind of remembering to center our lived experience in the movement. So I would love if you could share a piece of your RJ story.
I love that too. And sidenote, too, like we all even have a birth story. Like I feel like we were all born. We all got here some way somehow.
This is true.
whether you want to be here or not. We have we have a we all have a birth story. So I love. I love that part of it too. But yeah, I think the part of my story I do want to tell is a little bit more specific to being a mom and a parent. But I was definitely one of those people. My parents told me all the time how at like, truly three years old, I was talking about being a mom. And that's just like what I felt so called to do from a really such a young age, which I think is like really sweet to look back on, especially now that I am a parent. And I actually think it made the transition and transformation into becoming a parent a lot more challenging, because I had had this romanticized vision of what mothering and parenting would look like from such a young age. And I was just so certain that it was going to be the most beautiful experience ever, that I was going to love every second of it and just be like so connected to the baby and just feel so called to do that work as a parent. And so when that wasn't the case, and like those early postpartum days,
it just like sort of shattered this, this vision and image I had held truly for for decades at that point. And so that's why I do postpartum work now is because I think there's so many, so much attention and resources geared towards pregnancy, and labor and delivery. And then you're kind of just sent home to raise a being on your own in isolation in a pandemic. And just like societally, we don't raise children, I feel like the way
I heard about it growing up. Being like, you know, surrounded by family door's always open, people coming in and out. Really building that quality relationship with your child. And that just hasn't been my experience as a first time parent, especially raising a child in COVID. And so I really do this work to connect with other parents, other moms, Black moms. I just think Black mamas are like the heroes of the world. And I'm so eager to connect with other new parents, especially at this point in my life. And so while the work that I do you know, it's some direct service work is providing a service for people. It's also just as much about organizing and relationship building and just building connection. When we're told that like that you should be able to raise a child on your own maybe with like a co-parent, if you're lucky. And that's just not reality. We we as parents and our children need communities. And so yeah, that's part of my RJ story.
Yes, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. There were so many great gems in that, but I really appreciated you
saying how you always wanted to be a parent and you kind of had this idealized view of parenthood. And then once it became apparent that was very quickly changed. I feel like for me at 24, like, I still kind of have that idealized image; even though, I know that's not reality. And I've seen so many like Black women, specifically who've tried to kind of educate younger Black people and be like, "Hey, this is what motherhood is, like, for me, actually don't enjoy being a parent." Like just giving the real. And I see so much backlash that they receive and how they're like, not good parents. And they, you know, they should have this maternal instinct. And I feel like when people do try to be honest with other people, and kind of give them the real, they get all this backlash. So I feel like there's not a lot to like, you don't really know until you know, because when people try to tell you, they get like all of this like vitriol. So I do appreciate you saying that. You said so many good things. Um, I'll pause. Did you want to say something really quickly?
Yeah, I was just gonna say I've actually never, I've tell people this all the time, I've never had so much respect for people who know that they don't want to be parents than I do now. Like, knowing what it takes. And I actually think, especially as people who identify as women are raised as girls, it actually takes so much to be like, this narrative is being pushed on me and that I'm being told from every different direction that I need to be a mom when I grew up. And I'm actually not interested in doing that. And I think like making that decision is so powerful. And like, Absolutely, if people don't want to parent they shouldn't. And I don't like if this is not the life you're trying to live, I don't want you to live it if you're on the fence about it. Or if you know that you don't want a parent and being like forced into that situation. I just have a lot of respect for the variety of different conclusions people come to around parenting.
Of course. And you started to hint at this a little bit in your RJ story. But I wanted to talk to you about your experience as a first time parents specifically through your pregnancy and then birthing during COVID. And how that like, pregnancy experience was for you, as well as a postpartum experience.
Let me rewind, my partner and I made a very... (partner, co-parent and you'll hear me refer to him as both) made like a very intentional decision to try to get pregnant at this time. Mind you, this was like, end of 2019 had not heard of COVID. Before was about to graduate from school and was just like, this timing is feeling really good. And really, right, we feel ready. We feel like financially prepared as, as much as you can be. So we found out I was pregnant, early January 2020. And then three months later, is when everything in the US shut down because of COVID. So I was like just finishing up my first trimester. And that was devastating because it was so there were so many unknowns, and so many questions, like so much fear around, what if I got COVID? As a pregnant person? What would that do to me? What would that do to the fetus? And then also, I'm sure you heard like nightmare stories of people giving birth by themselves in the hospitals because they didn't have access, or there was like limitations on who could be in the room. So it was just so terrifying. And I just remember being so anxious every day, just like wondering if I was gonna get COVID and what that was gonna mean, for our family. Or if I was gonna have to give birth alone.
Were you able to have like, the celebratory moments like the baby shower and things like that, and just, like have community around you during the pregnancy?
I feel like I mean, no. I... because I was so anxious, we took like an abundance of caution. So we didn't even play around with the idea of having an in person baby shower, I want to say maybe did some like virtual things. But you know, that's not the same as as having folks in the room like hugging you holding you. And so no baby shower. And then I'll get to like the early postpartum what that looked like. But luckily, I will say I was giving birth, I gave birth at the birth center in Chapel Hill, which unfortunately, is no longer operating. But they did not have limitations on the number of folks who could be in the room. So that part, I still got to have as I wanted. So it was me, my co-parent, and then our doula, which is exactly how I wanted it to be. And so I feel very grateful that that was still possible because that was not the case in hospitals at that time. There was severe limitations on who could be in the room. But yeah, just like everything was virtual, and I'm like, I have best friends and family that didn't get to see me pregnant. And that's still like a weird thing to come to terms with. Like, people that I've known for life are like yeah, never, never saw your bump. Never got to touch your bump... your baby bump. So I do feel like there were experiences lost for sure and, and things to grieve over what that ended up, what that process ended up looking like. But all of that is to say I knew I actually almost asked my Doula to be my Doula before I was even pregnant. And then I was like, alright, alright, let me not get ahead of myself. Let me wait until I can actually tell her that.
You were excited.
So excited. Her name is Kira and she's a dear, dear friend of our families. And I just knew she had to be there when ...when June was born. And so in that way, I felt like really prepared. I had been a doula and witnessed births myself already at that point, and felt as prepared as one can without actually having experienced it, for birth itself, I would say. And I feel really grateful to say that I had, that I had a really beautiful birthing experience. I feel like that's rare that you get to hear someone say like, yeah, everything went actually how I had hoped or at least went smoothly, and there wasn't any major scares, or, yeah, I felt safe and heard and respected the entire time.
I love that. I'm glad you had that experience.
Yeah! Thank you.
Especially like that being heard and being respected. While you're, I mean, at all times, but especially while you're like in that vulnerable state of giving birth.
Yeah, it's such a personal and intimate moment. And it's very easy to see how people could feel voiceless or not heard. In that same way. So I am really grateful for that, too. And then early postpartum was trash, I will be the first one to say it.
It, I was miserable. And when people, I hear people say they loved every second of it, I'm like, did you though? I don't know, maybe some people really, really enjoy the newborn stage. But I think as someone who really values my sleep, the sleep deprivation, first and foremost, took me out. It's just exhaustion, pure exhaustion for months. I tell everyone, the first night I slept, the first night I got a full night's sleep, after he was born was six months. And that is wild to me that I did not get a full night's sleep for six months. And then I just feel like people don't talk about like, especially up until even one I'm gonna say closer to two. It's this unending process of giving your entire mind, body and soul to someone else that can't really like return or return the favor like it is not a reciprocal relationship. Like yes, they might be cute and small and take naps on you. And that's cute. But it's just constant giving, and putting your own needs last. And I was not prepared for how hard that would, that would feel I'm very much someone who loves my alone time, practices setting boundaries, you know, taking care of my needs, prioritizing myself as much as I can. And that just like, all of that went out the window. So I think it really felt like this really dramatic lifestyle change and identity changed overnight. And I did not anticipate all of the grief that would come with this feeling of loss over who I used to be and how I used to live and think of myself and all these other identities that I held. And then for a while it was just mom, I still am working through like a tremendous sense of loss and grief around what used to be and what my reality now is, even when, even you know with a two and a half year old. So another piece there as I like to talk about postpartum as a lifelong experience, like I will always be postpartum. It's not six weeks.
It's ridiculous that they; tried to tell you, you're healed after six weeks. Right? That really will never be the same. And it's like, it's not my goal to try to be who I was before. But I feel like it's gonna be a lifelong process of exploring this, this new identity.
I was just talking to someone who wanted to have a conversation about the myth of the snap back, snap back culture for parents. And she was saying that even if your body does physically quote unquote, snap back, like you will mentally not be the same. Like your emotions, everything will be changed to like, even just have like this physical expectation that you're going to be a whole different person and people that don't know that. And I love that you talked about it in terms of grief, because we never associate or I've never heard people associate, you know, becoming a parent as like this sense of grief. And just like even for someone who really wanted to be a parent was super intentional, intentional going into it, useful experience. And I thought that's things that people should know if they're considering if they want to be a parent or not.
Yeah, I'm actually so, I want to do like a brain scan of my old brain and like parent brain, because it has to be so entirely different. I just feel like an entirely different person. Like you said, like not even talking about physically, which there's physical stuff, too. Like, I've been in physical therapy since he was born, because I messed up my back and my shoulder, breastfeeding and picking up a toddler. And like, again, those are just pieces that people don't talk about. But yeah, it's like it. Yeah, it changes your world and changes your sense of self. And yeah, how you think of yourself how you move through the world.
That's real. Yeah. I've never heard of someone having physical. They're like, I feel like you know, like you said, we all have a birthing story. We were all birthed, but I feel like moms and parents, I feel like don't tell their kids like, Oh, this is what happened when I got pregnant. And this can happen to you just like, Oh, you have a baby. And it's beautiful and wonderful. And it's what you should do. So sad out to people like you who are actually like giving other people like the real so they can know what they want to do in terms of having children. But you did mention you talk a lot about your postpartum experience and that you are now a postpartum doula. So Can you first tell us what a postpartum doula is? And then some of the services that you provide for birthing people.
Yeah. And it's, it's such a wide range of things. So I'll speak for myself, but I know there's postpartum doulas, all different, doing all different types of work. For myself, it's mostly support around the baby. So like newborn care, but also really just like watching the baby hanging out with the baby. So mom, parent, whoever, can shower, take a nap, eat a meal, do whatever they need to do, like really reclaim that time for themselves. Because it's really hard to create that space if you don't have someone who like really encouraging and showing up for you to be able to do it. So I love just hanging out with the newborns. And it helps me with my baby fever, because I'm not trying to do this whole process over again, but I will hold your newborn baby for as long as you want. So yeah, so for me, it mostly is support around the baby to give parents rest. And then I also, as we've talked about work really hard to have to create open comfortable, safe spaces for parents to just talk about their birth story, talk about how they're feeling that might lead to needing someone needing to get someone connected to mental health resources. For example, diaper funds, you know, whatever folks might be struggling with the parents specifically. It's also making sure you have the right referrals and resources to really get folks what they need in those early days, weeks and months. But I know other postpartum doulas who do a lot of like meal prep, like nutritional support, cleaning up of the home. I just feel like it's like what, to me, it's just like, what does this family whether it's the baby, mom, parents, parent, whoever is the caretaker like what do they need to be okay in this moment to feel heard, respected, honored, and get a little bit of rest and time for them themselves.
I feel like so often in the repro or reproductive health space, we focus on preventing pregnancy before pregnancy, and like the actual pregnancy period, and like maybe labor and delivery and then postpartum was completely forgotten. So I would have never even thought like, Oh, someone might need to come and just watch the baby while you do something or like, watch the baby. So you can get some rest and how much of a positive impact that can have on someone. Because like you said, you went six months without without having a full night's rest. So that's a really important resource. It sounds like and I'm wondering, what can people do who are interested in community with, you know, friends and family members who are pregnant to support them during the postpartum period?
That is such a good question. Because I've been reflecting on, I have wonderful friends like we have had no, we have no shortage of people that love and support us. And that doesn't mean people know how to care for people who are postpartum. Like, there's a difference. And it's not a coincidence that usually it's other people who are parents that like really know how to show up for other parents. So I feel like rather than being like, hey, what do you need being really explicit about like, Hey, can I bring you dinner? Can I come do the dishes? Can I come to your laundry? Can I come take your baby? Do you need to take a shower and nap like offering really concrete, tangible things that are possible for you, is a lot more useful than like, let me know what you need. Because it's, it's so it's so easy for parents who just like get stuck in the day to day that you even forget that you have people who want to care and support. And I love when people are just like, actually intentional about building a relationship with my child and being like, Hey, I would love I have a pretty flexible week, I'd love to come spend an hour with June and like, give you a break. Like that's my favorite thing. Because I know that he's with someone that I love that I want him to grow up knowing. And it's someone that I already trust and can go do what I need to do, just while they even like go for a walk for an hour. That's been my favorite part, especially as he's getting older, communicating more doing more on his own, it's really, really sweet to see him to like watch him connect with people that I know and love.
That's beautiful and integrating like your children into like the new life that you have with your friends. That's amazing. And speaking to like being more intentional about how you offer support to people, but who's gonna want to ask someone to come over and wash the dishes for them, like people aren't gonna think to like, ask for that specific amount of support. But if someone opposite you might, okay, actually do really need that. So that's definitely super important for me as well to just like think about as I'm getting to the age where my friends are getting pregnant and having babies and like how I can show up for them and actually give impactful support. So you mentioned earlier diaper funds. So I wanted to ask you a little bit about your Diapers for Black Durham and how you created this program and a little bit about the work that y'all do.
Yeah, absolutely. So when I will shout out to Sister Song because I had six months paid leave. So I'm gonna start with that. This wouldn't have been possible without that. We should all have access to paid leave for at least that long. So I was on parental leave. And you know, everyone's talks about how expensive babies are. And I was like, Yeah, this is definitely going to be an expense. But I did not realize how expensive diapers were until I needed to be buying them. It's truly like $30 $40 a box, and you can easily go through a box, you can go through two boxes in a month when they're when they're really young. So it is that really, really adds up and puts a financial strain on working families especially. And so I was on leave, like wanting to sort of take on some amount of work that still felt manageable and useful. Before I went back to Sister Song. And I just thought I was gonna do a one time fundraiser. I was like, You know what, let me see if I can raise $1,000. See how many boxes of diapers that will get and get these diapers out to Black folks in Durham who need these resources. So I was like, I had no idea what to expect. And then I think I ended up raising the $1,000 in like 90 minutes like it was it was it was less than two hours. It was less than two hours.
I did not even know that. Woah!
So excited, about like about a really concrete, tangible way to support families, especially in a place like Durham, that's historically Black and being gentrified really rapidly. Like, Black folks who have been here for generations are getting pushed out so quickly. And I think people were excited about finding ways to sustain folks and this need for folks who are in it from the area. So people were very excited about I think I had to like tell people to stop sending me money, because
that's a good problem to have.
Like you don't understand, we met the goal stop. And then I don't remember how many boxes that is. I can't do the math right now. But again, like same thing, went through the diapers very quickly. And, and people wanted, I just thought I was gonna be done. I was like, this is a cute one time project. And people just kept sending me money. And we're like, no, no, I want like people, the request kept coming in for diapers, and people wanted to keep donating. So I was like, Okay, I guess this is gonna be a thing. And I ended up making a Patreon page, so that people could just become monthly sustainers. And then that way, I don't have to worry about the fundraising all the time. Like I just know, every month, I'm gonna get $300 that I can put...
Oh, wow. I love that concept. So everyone listening, go sign up for the Patreon and become a monthly Sustainer. I'll put the link in the show notes.
Yeah, so I don't have to worry about the fundraising piece. And then, folks, just DM me. So, we're on Instagram at Black Durham Diapers. And I just tell folks, let me know what size you need. I'll give you a box per child, give you a pack of wipes. And, and I also get to connect with people that way, like I love when people are hanging out outside. And I get to say, hey, when I'm dropping off their diapers. I worked really hard to actually hand deliver them myself. And like drive around town. Usually, usually I spend like one day a week on the weekend, delivering them and have made like such beautiful connections, which has been so nice for me too, because that's like something I have been missing as a new parent too. I will say like the shortcoming is that I can't possibly give diapers to the same families every month. Like it's just not sustainable for me to do that as one as one person. And so I do feel like it's meeting this immediate need. And I like getting real connection out of it. And people should be able to afford like this shouldn't be, no one should not be able to afford all of our most basic human needs. And for babies that's diapers. And there are daycares that won't let you come, won't let the child come if they can't provide diapers like daycares don't provide diapers for kids. And so it's just so obviously a resource that should be provided for free by government funding for all new families. So that's been hard because I want to be able to give them what they need every single time they ask. And it's not sustainable for me to do that, on my own.
Is it that there's so much new need that comes in that you can't give to the recurring people?
I really want it to be like a one time delivery, and then I connect you to a source that can sustain longer term. So that's really the goal. But those same like larger groups, organizations, corporations aren't connected to like working class Black folks most of the time. So they're like missing each other.
Right.
The resource might be out there, but the relationships not there. And so yeah, I got a lot of folks who asked me probably monthly and I do what I can, but sometimes I just have to say I can't do it this month.
Right. And that that highlights why like grassroots organizing is so important because there's like that human aspect to it. And reminds me of an episode I did a while back with Brandi Collins-Calhoun who does a lot of philanthropy work about how we need these like big funders to be funding people on the ground. So there's a resource, you're a resource. And you're trying to connect people with a like, bigger resource or resource that has more funding and they don't want to go there.Then when you give me the money to you so people can get the resources they need from a place that they want to get it from. So that's a call to the funders that need to support people on the ground. So I definitely wish we could have a shift in our funding practices and the movement to like actually find people who are doing the impactful work like you are.
Yes. And I'm so glad youY said Brandi's name that's who trained me initially as a doula in North Carolina. So I love
Small world!
Yea, I love Brandi so much and she holds a such a special special place in my heart.
I love it. Shout out to Brandi I love seeing their parents and content on Instagram. Like, yes, you seem like an amazing parent.
Oh my gosh, it's so incredible. It's so it's such an honor to be able to watch her raise, like a whole ass teenager, now.
I'm like, that's like seeing their connection specifically and how like close they are. Because especially those teenage years as a teen girl, I know I was revolting in a revolution with my mom. So seeing them have such a good relationship. I feel like...
I know that you are doing something right. If you your daughter acts that way towards you. It's really, really sweet to witness.
I love it. Okay, so you're doing amazing work with Diapers for Black Durham? What's one of the biggest lessons you've learned from creating the program?
Honestly, probably what we just talked about is that the need is clearly there. And there just needs to be more advocacy and organizing around this being a basic need that's just provided for free to families. Um, I really wish I remembered the state. But there's a state that just passed I think like insurance coverage of diapers for the first year postpartum. Oh, I wish I remembered which state it was, but like that that model needs to be used everywhere, because that's exactly right. Like people should not be paying out of pocket for diapers for their children.
That makes sense. Like people should have access to like a local birthing center or something where they can just go and get their diapers whenever they need them. I'm trying to, I tried to look it up really quickly to see which state does it. But yeah, that's a basic need. We talked about that as well as milk for the baby and how we're having like shortages in that, like how you said babies have basic like human needs. And for some reason, they're not able to get to those.
Yeah, and it's like, it's never a flaw of the parent or the family. And I feel like that's how society wants to make it look. Like, they're not doing enough or they're not good enough parents. And in reality, most people can't afford all of like, housing, car, health care, diapers, milk, like, it's so expensive. Most people cannot afford that comfortably at all. And that's because of larger systemic structural issues and racism and white supremacy.
Right. And as we're seeing with all of these abortion bans, like people are going to be forced into parenthood who don't want to be parents. And obviously, they shouldn't be forced into parenthood, but then also, they're not going to be able to afford to care for a child because we don't have like universal basic income or just like living wages for people to be able to want support themselves, especially not dependent as well.
Right. Absolutely. Yeah. It breaks my heart to think about someone being forced into parenting who doesn't want to. Yeah. It should never ever, ever come down to that.
What advice would you give to someone who is currently pregnant with their first child and is nervous about the postpartum experience?
I just had such a wonderful conversation with a friend who's about to give birth to her first child. And I was just blown away by the things she's already thinking about, because there are things that I wish I had thought about. So I think it's so important to have just thinking about like all the different buckets of support you might need. So like a meal train, absolutely clutch, definitely wanting to think in advance of how you're going to be fed for not just the first days, but like first weeks and months. I think that's so important. I think having...
What's a meal train?
Just like having someone you know, there's even websites I do it but but but coordinating drop offs for folks around you who want to either like pay for your meals or just cook for you and bring you food. So that was so important for us. And I think something everyone should have set up for them. If you have the connections and the desire around you, for people to support you in that way. I think it's really important to think about mental health resources, especially if you're someone who has had specific like diagnoses or mental health challenges in the past and if you might anticipate those things being triggered or coming up again. Like having real mental health support in place and not waiting until you're desperate but like setting up that therapy appointment before the baby's here. And not just one on one therapy but like support groups and connections to other parents or other people that you know you can call if you're just like at the end. Like you just had it, and you just need to cry to someone. Like who who can you really call at that at that time? Yeah, I think just... I wish I had thought more about what I think I got so wrapped up in like just having this cute little precious baby that I forgot that like this is a lifelong commitment that takes sacrifice and to compromise, day in and day out, and you're not just agreeing to like physically raise someone, but actually parent them in a way that you want to feel really good about, and in a way that maybe you didn't get to be raised as a child? And how are you going to implement that and instill that? And like and hold onto yourself? What are you going to do for you, to hold on to your sense of self and not just be a parent? Because even though, mom is like such a major part of my identity, there's so many other parts of me and other things that I want to do outside of that, that I'm have to work really hard to hold on to. And that's just something I didn't expect to be the case.
That's all really great advice. I keep thinking back to what you said earlier about the grief and like the loss of sense of self. And that's just like really eye opening for me, and just how you're giving people advice to you know, while you're before you get into that postpartum period, just thinking about how to maintain yourself and, you know, continue to do things that you join that lose who you are as a person, just because you become a mom. That was actually my last question. Did you have anything else you wanted to talk about? That was ten questions.
I know we went through those. I was going to add that I also recently expanded Diapers for Black Durham to provide lactation support and education, because I just got my certification as a lactation counselor, and I think breastfeeding and normalizing breastfeeding, and just asking questions about it, no, no matter how awkward or silly or uncomfortable it might feel is so important to do, especially in Black communities. And I am just so excited to connect with folks around like what can be such a beautiful experience and bonding experience, but that there's just so much misinformation about breastfeeding. And I actually have found that it's more about connecting with folks. And just like encouraging and reminding folks that they can do this, if this is what they want. Rather than even knowing like, all of the things that are actually going on in your body. I feel like most people just need to hear like, you can totally do this. And it shouldn't hurt. And if it does, like let's try these other things, but most people just need to be heard. Like, breastfeeding is normal, natural, shouldn't be painful. And it's like, can be such a beautiful and incredible way to sustain babies. And I think it's also like another really great way to connect with other with other parents and birthing people.
I love that. Congratulations on your certification! When you mentioned that, you know, breastfeeding is super important, but like, there needs to be more resources in the Black community specifically. It reminds me of like all the stigma around breastfeeding and chest feeding in the Black community because of like the stigma of wet nursing for Black people during slavery and being forced to wet nurse either slaveholders babies or someone else in the community, some other white person who has, you know, obviously more power than them. And that stigma that we still hold like years later, and how that impacts people's like willingness to want to breastfeed and also just like not having the resources. So I recently learned about baby friendly hospitals, which when I first heard the term, I was like, every hospital isn't baby friendly? Like, what's going on? But it's actually from hospitals who like implement practices to support parents breastfeeding, so giving them like pumps and like different resources to breastfeed, but those aren't commonly in Black community. So the hospitals that are supporting people breastfeed aren't in the Black community. So they're not going to have that resource, plus the stigma. So all of this is getting back to white supremacy. So people like you doing the work is super important to go out into the community who reflects the community and support them in the journey of breastfeeding. And so I also wanted to ask, could you what's the so you're doing a pause and get so excited. So you have Diapers for Black Durham, and you have your lactation education? What was the connection between the two?
So there is none. I just made it. But I just want to love that. I mean, they're all connected, of course, in some way. But I just decided to expand, let's still under diapers, it's still all call Diapers for Black Durham. But now when folks request diapers, I also check in see if folks are breastfeeding or interested in breastfeeding, or thinking about or have questions about it, whatever it may be. And we'll also like literally, when I drop off diapers, we'll talk to them there or just like set up time to talk over the phone or whatever is easiest for folks, and just see what how their journey is going. And if there's any way they can be supported.
I love that. And yes, that is a natural connection, because someone might not even be thinking about breastfeeding or think that it's an option. But everyone needs diapers. So you can just hit him up like Oh, give me these diapers. You know, do you need support and you can support them? So I love that. That's great.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it's been so mind boggling, like even trained healthcare professionals don't know about breastfeeding and spread really bad misinformation about breastfeeding. Someone hit me up recently, who had been breastfeeding her daughter for a year, they were both loving it like she's loving this experience. And her primary care provider told her to stop breastfeeding because the baby turned one like that was the that was the reason that was given. They were like, Oh, she's one now you don't need to keep breastfeeding. And she was so confused. She was like, distraught. She was like, I'm enjoying it, my daughter is enjoying it. I don't want to stop. But my doctor who I'm supposed to trust with my entire well being is telling me to stop this thing like, what? What should I do? And so it's just so important to have folks just who are able to listen and just, like reassure that. Like, no. You should keep doing what your body is telling you that you want to do what your baby's telling you she wants to do.
That's real, we've definitely... doctors definitely have a place where we've given them so much power. And I wouldn't even say we've given them power.They just have a lot of power. Because obviously, it would make more sense for questions like those to be answered by a certified lactation support person. But again, this power hierarchy with healthcare providers, and now you're getting advice from someone who maybe has never interacted with a breastfeeding person. So,
Right. And to your point, like, of course, they're gonna say that to a Black person, but not the white person. Or they're gonna push formula on the Black person, but not the white person.
It's... as we're talking, it's like, it just highlights how so many of these systems are connected, unfortunately, and how we always tend to come back to white supremacy, and capitalism typically. So it's the common enemy, but impacts like every aspect of people's lives. Okay, are there any other ways that people can support Diapers for Black Durham? I know we have the Patreon follow you on social media, what other ways can people support what you're doing?
Yeah. I take one time donations over Venmo and Cash App and then folks who are local, I love receiving like folks who just drop off unopened boxes of diapers if they're like kid grew out of a size. I always love hearing from parents who are just like I have extra size twos I want to give them to you. So I also happily accept unopened sleeves and boxes of diapers and, and packs of wipes if folks are local. That's about it.
Thank you so much Maya for joining me for this episode and sharing a piece of your story and your experience and just educating us all on how we can support birthing people in our in our lives.
Thank you so much for having me. It was so fun to be here and just to get to reconnect with you LaKia.
Yes, and we need to do another like in person meetup. So you got to come to Oakland. I don't know if Carolina or we got to meet up somewhere.
I am already trying to come back to Oakland again this year. I had the time of my life and I will let you know because I'm I'm truly trying to come back for the entity.
