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| 4 | State Checks, DILD & WILD, WILD Practices | Otter.ai

| 4 | State Checks, DILD & WILD, WILD Practices

Night Club1h 45min

Chelsea Waves

00:05

Hi everybody, welcome. Good to see your faces in this day, wherever you are in the world make get some gallery view so I can see all of you

Chelsea Waves

00:28

right. So, what I usually do or one of us usually do at the beginning is share kind of like a group guidelines, especially because these are going to be open to night club as a or everyone as a free offering until the end of June. And so, just to give a little bit of context about what we're going to be doing together, so the first portion of the gathering will be DoDI, Katie and I sharing about lucidity, induction techniques, and then the time we have left will be open for questions and conversation. And in that portion, you'll just use the raise your hand button is at the bottom underneath reactions. And if you want to share or contribute, you can just raise your hand and before you share, we just ask that you take a moment, a one breath meditation to just kind of check in with yourself and ask yourself how the questions or the contribution will benefit you and the group. And then I also just wanted to remind everybody that these gatherings are recorded. We also have little disclaimer that we want to share with everyone. Okay, let me just share my screen

Chelsea Waves

02:08

so I'm just gonna read it out loud for everybody because we noticed that there were some questions really coming up that have to do with like, Buddhism and like really great questions in depth questions about Buddhism and we just wanted to share that the three of us are devoted lucid dreamers and Tibetan dream yoga practitioners. However, we are not Buddhist lamas. None of us have done the traditional three year retreat. While we will always do our best to answer your questions, we may refer you to Andrew horshack If we feel unqualified to give a satisfactory response to a question you have asked. So thank you for your understanding. And we're so grateful to be on this journey. With all of you expanding our lucidity together. And also if there's a question that you ask and we don't know the answer, we're happy to take the question to Andrew and then write back to you by email. So you get the answer. Okay, so now we have Kenny

Chelsea Waves

03:28

Oh, Katie, you're muted.

Katie Love

03:32

Thank you Yeah. Hello, everybody. So good to see you all. i Hi, Dario. I'm going to leave here some overarching intentions for the group as I've done in previous groups, because we might still have some new people here. So I'm just going to share what our overarching intentions are this acidity induction group in an ongoing way. So our intentions for this group are to expand our lucidity in dreaming life and waking life alike. To explore and practice a variety of lucidity, induction techniques, and to engage with a community of people dedicated to lucidity. And all this is held with joy, devotion and lightheartedness. That's the feeling and emotional part of the intention. The so we invite you if you resonate with these intentions, we invite you to join us in holding these intentions together so that we can have more of a collective field of intentionality.

Unknown Speaker

04:59

Great

Katie Love

05:04

and we also just want to let you all know we've done three of these three lucidity induction groups so far. And you can find the recordings on the lucidity induction group of the nightclub page. And if you scroll all the way to the bottom of that page, there's the recordings from the previous three groups where we've covered a variety of foundational practices, sleep hygiene practices, and other induction techniques. So feel free to check that out if you haven't seen that and we also really want to just thank everybody who engaged our gift session offer. So in our last gathering, we offered gift sessions to anyone who was present and we had so many of you engage that offer and we're so grateful it's been such a joy and a delight to be with all of you who engage that offer and more of a one to one context. And we've been getting a lot of feedback that just in general the context of this container and the sessions have been really enhancing people's lucid dreaming. So yay. Wonderful. Thank you. And now we're going to begin diving into some content and sharing some practices. So we'll start with Bodi.

Speaker 2

06:34

All right. It is great to see all of you again. And I just want to say thank you to the one on one sessions that I the people that I did one on one sessions with I so enjoyed it. It's great to see some of you on the call today. And I learned a lot so it was it was really great to just meet people find out where they're at. And and it was just a really mutual kind of engagement and really enjoyed it. So thank you. And so the first lucidity induction thing we're going to talk about today is state checks. That's really big, really big here. So a little bit later, Katie is going to is going to describe what category state checks fall into and give some details on that. But let's dive in probably probably most people on this call know what state checks are. So you know, we're but we're just going to kind of explain it a little bit. Talk a little bit about it just so that we know everybody knows about state checks and how we use them and why we use them. So Andrew refers to state checks as primers and they like you know, in the old days you prime the pump with some water to get water to come out of the well or you know you you prime something to get it going. And so he likes to refer to state checks is that's exactly what it's doing. It's priming you to have lucid dreams at night because you're you're getting some lucidity during the day you're sprinkling your day with some lucidity. So, you know he refers to that in his book. I I like to call state checks. Pattern interrupts because they basically interrupt the pattern of the day you're non lucid, you're doing stuff, whatever. And you take a moment and you break that pattern. And that's really good because you're hoping to do that in your dream you break that pattern of non lucidity with something that triggers lucidity. So both are true it Prime's, you know, it's priming the pump and it's breaking the pattern. So these are really great techniques that that it takes. Take some time you don't just get water to come out of the well. Right away. After priming. You gotta keep priming it. And eventually boom, you get the water's coming out and you're getting more and more lucidity. So, just to let you know on that. So right now, since there's probably so many, you know, there's I think on the polls that we've had in the past, there's about usually 50 plus percent of the people in this call that are are lucid dreamers or have been so right now if you could put in the chat. What is some of the state checks that worked for you? Because you probably have already heard of several you probably tried some. Is there any that worked for you? That have worked or that you know, even just a state check you've heard about and maybe you want to try? You want to know more about it or something just go ahead and put that in the chat. So we get a feel for it and maybe we'll find some that that we don't know. So go ahead and do that while I continue to dial in here. So state checks are just something that breaks it up. You know, you do something you say something. So, you know, one of the ones that a lot of people know is you look at your hands in the dream, your hand probably won't look right. And so you throughout the day, you look at your hand, and you might ask the question, Is this a dream? And you might put your hand away and look at it a second time. And in a dream Your hand will generally usually look different. When you pull your hand up the second time you go oh i i am dreaming. So that's like an example of one. So while you guys are putting some stuff in the chat, I'll just talk about quantity. How many times a day do you do a state check? You look at your hand you ask the question, Is this a dream? You know, and I will mention a few more here in a minute. But how many how many times a day that question comes up a lot. It came up a lot in the one on one chats or, or sessions. And you know that's really up to you, but the more the better for sure. For me, I you know I wasn't getting results and I finally had to I had to really push to get the the pump primed. I had to do fifth to every 15 minutes during my waking state. I had to use a watch. I had to have an obnoxious beeper go off and then you know I would do my state check. And you know, it could be that you just need to do do it every hour or whatever, but just kind of feel into it. And but yeah, the more because every time you do it, you're breaking that pattern. You're putting some lucidity into your waking state and all so. Chelsea, you probably got eyes on the chat. Do you see some of the any responses?

Chelsea Waves

13:13

Yeah, so we got quite a few. Quite a few people saying nose pinching, looking digital watch putting hand through a wall, looking at writing and then look back to see if it has changed ask myself if I'm dreaming. That's let's see you're looking at your hands jumping in the air always works looking in the mirror. Let's see with emotional activation, reflect pause, breathe. Dominica said that whenever she hears in airplane overhead asked myself am I dreaming? That several times a day. Daria has a lucid dreaming phone app that gets 10 reminders per day. See, I'm just trying to read through. I'll see if I can see my shadow.

Speaker 2

14:12

Night. Those are great. Thanks Chelsea. So yeah, those are wonderful and the jump you know do a little hop and jump. Andrew loves that on he talks about that one. If you go to any of these workshops, you read his books, they love that and and I love it too. You know if you jump in, you float back down here dreaming, you know, or are you you know, go through the earth or in something weird or you continue to fly up? Yeah, you're dreaming. So you just do a little hop. And so yeah, I've done done that and and that's a really good one. I really like that one. And then you know, rather than use a watch, you know, like I mentioned, I love you know the idea of like when you hear an airplane, you know if you're in a city or something it might be a lot more but yeah, every time you hear an airplane I tried doing the one where you every time you go through a doorway, you go over a threshold. And and I man that was hard for me because I go through a lot of doorways all the time and moving you know, moving around throughout the day and I'm like, oh, shoot, I missed that doorway. You know, but then I'm lucid I caught myself. And so there's a lot of ways that you can add more lucidity to your daytime practice, which will stimulate the nighttime practice. Now, I don't go through. I mean, I'm not going through a lot of doorways that I don't recognize. I'm going through doorways in my dreams so much. So I tried something different. So that's another thing with with state checks. You know, yeah, you do want to stick with something for a while. But if you just kind of feel like wait a minute. I'm not you know, it's not showing up in my dreams and this kind of way. Like I said, you know, doorways I don't quite recognize going through doorways in my dreams. So much so I stopped doing that. But you know, I chose color red. Every time I see the color red, I would say is this a dream? And sure enough, Red was starting to show up in my dreams. And, and I would miss it. And of course when I woke up in the morning, I'd be like, Oh man, there was read my dream. I forgot in my dream to ask if it was a dream, but it created lucidity. It started priming the pump. And sure enough my subconscious. My dream weaver as I call the creator of my dreams started showing me like bright yellow and and I caught it so you know you never know you never know what you know you kind of work with your subconscious you work with what's going on. So if you need to change up your state checks, you know, change them up, explore, but you kind of got to stick with it for a while. You might have to increase your quantity how much you're doing it during the day, but the more the better. Whatever you can afford to do. I just started doing the the pinching my nose and and I hadn't heard that one before. But Tim on the call mentioned that when I was like oh wait, I mean I haven't tried that one. And so I've been trying now on and and you know because if you pinch your nose, you can't breathe through your nose. But in a dream you pinch your nose and sure enough you can breathe. So there's another good state check. So think thank you everyone who puts those suggestions in the chat. Appreciate it. And, you know another thing what one thing that I did I changed up. I kept asking the question, Is this a dream? And, and for me, I was like I don't know that. It maybe I should change that a little bit. So I changed it to making a statement. This is a dream. So when I do my state check, I would say this is a dream. Now that worked for me. By all of a sudden, in my dream I just made the statement. This is a dream. And then it kind of shook me in the dream. I'm like wait a minute. This is a dream. So it worked by changing that. Now that might not be true for everyone that question for a lot of people might be better than the statement so just, you know play with it and love to hear more exploration of anyone coming up with state checks that work. Email me, you know, mentioning in the chat in the upcoming months and like like Katie mentioned, we've got three more months of being in the lucidity induction group free you don't have to join nightclubs. So really, really glad that we can extend that and hopefully more people get to join so that's the checks. So now on to a Katy

Katie Love

20:18

Thank you buddy for sharing about state checks. Can y'all hear me? Okay? Great. Okay, so, the practice Bodie was just sharing about state checks is in a class of practices called Dream Induced Lucid Dreaming practices. Or dialed d i l d. And the reason that they're referred to as Dream Induced Lucid Dreaming practices is because we're doing a practice that is hopefully priming us to become lucid once we're already in the dream state. So even though we may be doing the practice during the day when we're not dreaming, the idea is that it will plant a seed in the dream itself. And we will have lucidity arise within the dream. Well notice, I'm in a dream, this is a dream. So that's a Dream Induced Lucid Dream or a dialed D ILD. There's another class of practices that are called wake Induced Lucid dreams, or wild wi LD, and wake Induced Lucid dreams are when we bring our waking consciousness with us from the waking state, down into the dream state directly. So there's this continuity of consciousness that comes from waking into dreaming and I want to show you all this Hypno gram. Have, have y'all heard of a hypno gram before? No, somehow some haven't. Okay, great. Yeah, so a hypno gram is a graph that tracks our brainwave frequencies during the night and it shows the various different stages of sleep and the REM state. And this was taken actually directly from the book Dream Yoga by Andrew HolidayCheck. So what I want us to look at here is first these tall lines at the top that are mostly thin, those represent waking states. This that says no one over here these lines is stage one of sleep which is lighter sleep. And two is stage two of sleep, which is slightly deeper sleep. And three is deep sleep, stage three, some call it stage three and four. But it's deep the deep deep sleep that we get the deepest sleep. And then these dotted lines, here are the dotted bars. That's our REM states. And so there are a few things that I want to point out on this Hypno gram. The first being that in the early part of the night is when we get our deep sleep. So this is 11pm to just before 3am is when this person is really getting the deepest sleep. And that's true for for most humans is that we get our deep sleep in the beginning of the night. So really important to let yourself get that deep sleep. And in a previous recording Chelsea shared with us some sleep hygiene practices. And so I would invite you if you haven't seen that and if you are having trouble getting deep sleep to go back and watch that, because it's very important that you get that deep sleep and that you prioritize that in the beginning of the night. There are a couple of little REM periods in the beginning of the night, but they're quite small, quite short, which is why we don't we don't typically focus our energy on lucid dreaming. In the earlier portion of the night. You can have lucid dreams and these REM states. But we don't typically focus on that. Where we really want to focus our efforts, especially with the Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming techniques is in the later part of the night, like the two to three hours before awakening. So you can see here that these timelines are when we wake up look at how many times we naturally wake up during the night. So incredible. So here we wake up, but we go straight back down into REM. So these places where we have the waking state going straight into REM are the best opportunities that we have to do wake Induced Lucid dreaming. And so that's where we really want to focus our efforts to get the most efficiency and effectiveness out of our practice. So this can be, as I said, in the two to three hours before you wake up in the morning, but it could also be during a nap oftentimes we do go straight into dream states when we when we're napping, so that's another place where you can focus your efforts. But with the wild technique, the Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming technique. If we are doing this in the night, what we want to do is we want to wake up and then stay awake for some length of time. I think classically it's recommended to stay awake for about 20 minutes. But I would actually invite you to play with that and see what works for you both in how you wake up and and how long you stay awake. Because there's kind of a sweet spot for each person in terms of when they wake up the timing, and also the length of how long they stay awake. So that you get enough waking consciousness to bring it back down into the dream, but not so much that it's keeping you awake for the rest of the night. You can't go back to sleep. Yeah, so some people like to use alarm clocks to wake themselves up two to three hours before awakening. If you do it, if you try it like two hours before waking up and you find that you can't go back to sleep. Go for a longer period before waking up. So go for like three hours before waking up so that you have had less sleep before you're waking yourself up. I personally don't like using alarms ever in any context. I really like just letting myself naturally wake up and because we do you have these natural waking points throughout the night. We can put intention there to notice those and to wake ourselves up when that when we naturally would wake up just to wake ourselves up a little bit more. Or we can also use if you are a person that goes to the bathroom in the middle of the night which I am it typically go at least once in the night. You can use those moments for your wake Induced Lucid Dream practice. So yeah, a couple options more structured or just kind of more free flowing and when you wake up in the middle of the night especially do not turn on lights. Do not look at your screen, do not do anything that is overly activating and that is going to wake you up more than will allow you to fall back to sleep. So keep all the lights off, maybe go into a meditation or a particular practice which Chelsea is going to share some specific techniques around wake Induced Lucid dreaming. But one more thing I want to say about this is that as we're doing the Wake Induced Lucid Dreaming practices, we're going to have this like diminuendo de crescendo as we descend from the waking state down into the dreaming state. So it's kind of this dropping of our awareness, while bringing that waking consciousness with us into the dream state. And so as we're in that process of that diminuendo de crescendo, we want to pay attention to how our thoughts slowly transition into dream images, this liminal space that we're in, where we can actually notice how a thought which is correlated with waking consciousness transforms into a dream which is correlated with dreaming consciousness as we're moving from the awake into the sleeping state and you know, you can notice these little dreamless forming in the liminal space between waking and sleeping, waking and dreaming. So with that being said, Now I'm going to turn it over to Chelsea and she's going to share about some very specific wild practices that you can choose to employ.

Chelsea Waves

29:30

Thank you, Katie. Yeah, so we're gonna dive into the practices a little bit. And what we'll start with is I'll just give like a brief overview of some practices, and then we'll actually engage in one together. So the first one that I want to start with, it can actually be found in Andrews book, The Lucid Dreaming workbook, we'll put a link in the chat too. So you guys if you don't have it, you can get if you want. He starts talking about these techniques on page 104. So after you've done your meditation, recapitulation and reinstating your joyful intention, which I talked quite a bit with focus in my one on one sessions, about joyful intention. It's so important. If you haven't heard us talk about joyful intention yet I think it was the first gathering we did. Katie talked about it so highly recommend you go back and listen to that. We actually talked about all three of those meditation, make capitulation and joyful intention. So what you'll do is you'll want to lay down or if you wake up in the middle of the night, you can actually do all these things, setting up whatever was most comfortable for you. And you'll either recite mentally counting down, or the mantra which I'm going to share with you. So the first technique is called the counting down to lucid sleep. So what you'll want to do is mentally say to yourself, one I'm dreaming 2am dreaming 3am dreaming, and you continue to count like this until you drift mindfully to sleep. So creating that connection, as Katie said, between the waking state and the dreaming state. You can also do a practice called 21 breaths where you breathe intentionally and mindfully with your breath. Up to 21 times and you do your best not to get distracted as you're breathing in. So it would be breathing in, breathing out, one. Breathing in, breathing out two. And you do that all the way up to 21. And then once you get to 21 you can either let that go or if you feel so inspired, you can go back down. But with both of these techniques that have to do with counting, you want to be really mindful that you're not holding going from being too loose to being too tight and counting to 100 or 1000 in the middle of the night because then you won't go to sleep. So just be mindful that you're not using this to get to a number goal. You're using this to really descend calmly, intentionally into your dream space. My favorite that I use almost every night is I recite a mantra as I fall asleep a Buddhist mantra. Its own mani padme hum. And I actually have a slide that says the mantra on it for all of you. And if you aren't connected to Buddhism or you're not interested in reciting that mantra when we do the practice together, you can also just say to yourself, I am dreaming. I am dreaming. I am dreaming. Or if there's some something else that kind of infuses for you. Then you can say that to yourself. So, for example, mantras a sacred sound. And so Andrew likes to call them email addresses of the deities, right or forgetting the name. Yeah, just have these like special beings, right, who can really we can call to them, and then they can support us in that moment. So oh mani padme hum. It's the Bodhisattva of that's where? Chan Raizy which is the bodhisattva of compassion. And so you can say I'm mani padme hum. When you're feeling whatever you're feeling in the moment whenever you need a moment of compassion or to use it as a way of drifting down into sleep. And so I am going to share my screen I can find it

Chelsea Waves

34:29

I've been having lots of weird computer stuff today. So thank you for being patient with me while I bring this up.

Katie Love

34:39

All right, so I've got it

Chelsea Waves

34:52

so it's also known this particular mantra as the jewel is in the lotus is a common translation. Of this particular mantra. And this is generating right here, just so you can see what Chenrezig looks like. Who we are emailing to right now, when we do this. And what we can do with this mantra is we can like Katie said a decrescendo, right. So we'll start out saying it out loud to ourselves at whatever pace works for you. So you can get a go as slow or as fast as feels comfortable. It can be own mani padme hum, it can be own money from your own money, family, money, family, whatever works for you. And then what we'll do is we'll go a little bit softer into a whisper and then from there, what we'll do is we'll go internal with ourselves. And the thing about this as a wild technique, is you want to be mindful of like if you have somebody sleeping right next to you talk to them about this, you know, get their consent. Is this is this cool with you? Is this peaceful? Is this annoying? Like check in with them, see how it feels. And you can always just say it internally to yourself. And usually what I do is I don't actually stop saying the mantra kind of like we do with the counting techniques. I just let myself slowly descend into sleep with the mantra. And sometimes it's really cool. The mantra will actually keep I can feel the mantra in me as I'm falling asleep and going into lucid dreaming. And I wanted to share that with you because it's just to me, it feels so magical. To feel that connection between the waking and the sleeping in that transition. So we will do the practice now. So you can have your eyes open, or you can close them. And what we'll do because I also think it's important to feel the mantra when you're saying and so if you want to you can put your hand over your heart. So you remember to really feel into your body. Notice what you're feeling as you say this and what I will do is I will say the mantra medium pace, seven times out loud, and then seven times as a whisper and then seven times to ourselves. And like I said, if the mantra is not resonating with you, then you can say I am dreaming. I am dreaming. Okay, so we'll begin. Mani Padme Hum mani padme hum mani padme hum, mummy, ma'am. Mani Padme Hum, money, ma'am. Oh mani padme hum. Whisper Honey. Honey. Honey, honey. My honey. Money, honey. Money pardon me. Pardon me. Now seven times to yourself

Chelsea Waves

39:04

if you had your eyes closed, just take a breath to notice the transition the pause in between the practice and coming back to the group.

Chelsea Waves

39:37

To look at my other screen right now to ensure there we go. Yeah, so I hope that you were able to feel that inside of you on some level and home mine. Oh man money. Nice scary. I'm glad I had the words on the screen. But if that's what resonates with you, then that also works too.

Chelsea Waves

40:17

If you notice, you know it. It really promotes this way of noticing the transition between our windy minds during the day which are much louder even through our own voice. There's speaking to whispering to being silent and internal and it becomes more subtle and so to conclude, I'm just going to share that. Take your time as you're doing all these practices. You know, we have a lot of habitual patterns that we've collected on the way along the way, including myself that I'm working through all the time and just be gentle with yourself. And if you are having a moment of like, Oh, this isn't for me, I recommend with all of the practices to ask yourself is this not for me because my ego is telling me that it's not for me and it's a slide trick of you don't want to actually do this? Because you might actually notice your own lucidity and luminosity within? Or is it really just not for you? Because that's totally fine too. But just explore that question. If you're having some resistance and be playful. You know, no, have fun with it. So, I am done. And I also just want to say hi everybody that I did the one on one sessions with it's good to see you.

Chelsea Waves

42:00

So next, we have Bodie, he's going to ask our question or poll.

Speaker 2

42:09

All right. Hey, everybody, this is when we get to celebrate our group our How are we doing? Is there anyone that we can celebrate with who's had a lucid dream for the first time or so this is this that opportunity? So we have a poll. And Alyssa if you could bring up our poll and we're asking the question, so choosing one of these. So have you never had a lucid dream. You had I had my first lucid dream in the past month since we, our group has met had been lucid dreaming for a while and did not have a lucid dream. Since the last gathering. And then last choice is have been lucid dreaming for a while and did have a lucid dream since the last gathering on March 9 So if you would feel so inclined to to just give us where you're at. Tell us tell us where you're at.

Chelsea Waves

43:44

We've got about 29 Oh no. 31 out of 50 people have participated, so maybe we'll give it a lot like I'll give her about Yeah. Okay. There's lots of people that are answering right now.

Unknown Speaker

43:58

All right. Yeah. Now,

Katie Love

44:00

I also want to say if you you know, the third one is have been lucid dreaming for a while. That could be if you've ever had a lucid dream to like I've had at least one lucid dream and did not have a lucid dream since our last gathering. That would be where you'd fit if you're in that category.

Speaker 2

44:24

Yeah, so it looks like we might have an opportunity here to celebrate. If I'm if I'm seeing things right. But I'm dyslexic, so we're gonna have to depend on Chelsea to read this as well from

Chelsea Waves

44:43

you. Good things are dyslexic. We can't see but it's all good. We've got each other okay, so two people have their first lucid dream and the past month. Let's all celebrate, okay.

Speaker 2

45:03

Ken, if you if you're one of those two people, or if you're a person that had your first lucid dream since March night, and you didn't fill out the form with either just Can you raise your hand? Can you just kind of wave? Can we can we just see you we want to celebrate? And if we can, we'd love to celebrate with you. And we see who that is? Anybody. Katie, do you see anybody

Katie Love

45:39

down? I don't see that in themselves. Yeah. Yeah,

Speaker 2

45:44

we've got some shy people. That's okay. But, but that's awesome. That's that's two more people that had their first lucid dream. That is amazing. So, blessings, may you have more and more lucid dreams. And so we celebrate with you. And, and those of you that are continuing to have lucid dreams. Awesome. Awesome. Continue on. Great. We love to hear it. Love to hear about it. If you had your first lucid dream, and you just want to go ahead and write it in the chat, so we can celebrate that way. That's good too. But thank you. And thank you everyone for filling out that poll. Appreciate it. So, and we are now we're gonna end the poll I guess. There we go. And share results. Okay, let's do that. Sounds good. So let's see we've got q&a. I'm ready ready? With your questions? Because we're ready.

Chelsea Waves

47:08

Bodie do do we want to just say out loud since folks on the recording can actually see the poll results? Just what each one ones? Yes,

Unknown Speaker

47:17

please.

Chelsea Waves

47:18

Okay, so never had a lucid dream. 25% of people 10 out of 40 have my first lucid dream in the past month, that's two out of 40 or 5%. And then the next one is have been lucid dreaming for a while and did not have a lucid dream since I last gathering on March 9, that is 30%. And then the next one is have been lucid dreaming for a while and did have a lucid dream since our last gathering on March night. And that's 40% that's a celebration within itself

Speaker 2

47:59

too. Yes. Yes. Fantastic, everyone. So, you know, you know, I think meeting as a group, hopefully you're feeling something it looks like something's working. So we're going to keep doing it. Come on back where something's happening. All right. So moving on to q&a. So if you got any questions you can use the emoji raise your hand down there. And all right, Nikki.

Niki Patton

48:47

Yeah. Hi. Hi, everybody. Really glad to be here. I've been to a couple of Andrews talks and saw this and said, Well, what an interesting idea to do it monthly, which gives you the so this is a direct question for anyone who's been started working on it. I have never had a lucid dream. And it's the individuals who are actually lucid dreaming in this group, both for spiritual and spiritual answer and for a logical answer what have been the benefits to you of lucid dreaming. I was looking them up and found it on the website get calmer, it said again. But I also want to know have you found spiritual benefits to were in a group where Andrew explores a lot of spiritual material, and that's from anybody who has been doing this and found it useful. I'd be appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker 2

49:39

I want to see Katie you

Niki Patton

49:43

having a little trouble hearing you Bodie. I don't know if I'm the only one can. Oh,

Speaker 2

49:48

okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay, I'll, I'll speak up. Katie, would you like to take this one?

Katie Love

49:55

Sure. Yeah. And I also want to acknowledge that I think Nikki was posing the question as well to the group. So maybe we could also have someone from the group answer as well. So I'm just going to share my own personal experience, which is that lucid dreaming was actually for me, the doorway, the gateway into spirituality. Because I started having lucid dreams from a young age. And I started having these really profound spiritual experiences within the context of the dream. And it led me to this understanding that there was way more to life and the world and everything in existence than I had previously understood. So for me that has the spiritual aspect of it has been a huge both motivator but also benefit to it, to be able to expand my experience of spirituality within the dream space. But also, you know, so many benefits to lucid dreaming. First of all, just such a joy for going to sleep like every single night I have so much joy for going to sleep because I get to explore this dream world that I have. Also, so many benefits in terms of creativity. So in the dream space, we can actually really work with our creative mind. And we it's a lot of times it's not even for me at least it's not even something I'm intentionally doing. It's just that creativity seems to come through in that space, at least for me even more easily than it does in the waking state. So I'll wake up and reflect on my dreams, and have had so many creative experiences. That that enhance my creativity in the waking world, as well. Yeah. And then also just the opportunity for spiritual exploration. So this kind of bridges more into the Dream Yoga path, but we can go from using lucid dreaming, which is more about self fulfillment, which is like what do I want to do in the in the dream like what would be fun and joyful and what are my desires and what I like to try to using the dream state as a place for self transcendence, where we're actually working with different stages of Dream Yoga, like perhaps we are having trouble with someone in our life and so we can use the dream to step into this to the shoes of that person. And in doing so, have compassion for them. Or we can practice meditation in a lucid dream, thereby adding more time to our spiritual practice, and also experiencing a variety of different benefits than we would through meditating. When awake. So there's a few things to get you started with benefits and I also feel called to just see if there's someone in the group that also wants to respond to that by themselves personally, since I think Nikki was inviting that

Niki Patton

53:20

there's a few responses in the chat too, which is great. Oh, okay. So both ways. Oh,

Katie Love

53:28

great. And I

Unknown Speaker

53:29

I could make a comment. Okay.

Katie Love

53:32

Yeah.

Speaker 4

53:37

I regard the practice of lucid dreaming to be a direct pathway to waking lucidity contributes to our awareness of the illusory nature of our waking state, not just the illusory nature of our sleep state. So that for me, that's the greatest spiritual benefit. I'm not adept at not enough. I'm not adept yet to be deliberately practicing spiritual objectives. In in a lucid dreaming state. But the lucid dreaming practice is when I when I say it feeds back into waking lucidity that is a specific spiritual practice and benefit.

Chelsea Waves

54:38

Yeah, Um, I'm having trouble hearing you as well. I don't know if you want to lean closer to the microphone. And I also thought it might be helpful to read through the chat, since we got some answers through there.

Unknown Speaker

54:50

We want to do that Chelsea Yeah.

Chelsea Waves

54:56

Sees Tim shared spiritual benefit more awareness that this is really mine created universe very much like a dream. Marianne sharp shared, it has really helped me loosen the grip on conventional reality I've become more and more lighthearted, which is helpful for embracing aging. Yeah. For me, having a lucid dream has been profound effect of demonstrating the degree of which our daytime reality is so massively created in the mind. And Louise shared I experienced the clear light when meditating and a lucid dream. have not been able to get there through meditation and waking reality. Daria shared benefits. I've had physical and emotional healing, practicing meditation and lucid dream is more challenging and very efficient. Barry, Barry didn't have a lucid dream until he was 71 years old everybody. So it's letting everybody know that it's awesome that you've had a lucid dream, Barry and thank you for sharing that. I think that can be inspiring for people. And then yeah, so that's everything on the benefits. I also just wanted to share to really quickly just thinking a little bit more practical so you can actually practice in a lucid dream. So just like Katie was saying that you can use the time to meditate. You know, you can also use the time if you're a swimmer. If you are a musician, if you are any kind of like sport, anything like that. Katie said creativity so practicing your art, trying to figure out a problem that like is kind of stifling you that maybe you don't have, you know, it's it's easier in the dream to kind of visualize a solution. I think Albert Einstein did that. And it's like the theory of rototill tivity if I'm remembering correctly, and then another one is healing. So being able to meet someone, maybe who's died in a lucid dream, being able to talk to them, and maybe heal that relationship a little bit and then you can of course do that with your like subconscious as well.

Speaker 2

57:25

Thank you, Chelsea. I personally am looking at lucid dreaming right now as kind of the beginning of my a practice for death for getting ready to die, which I think is a really spiritual, cool thing that we all do. And preparing for that lucid dreaming is like the, you know, that's what I'm I'm using right now and later. I'll be stepping into learning more about preparing to die, which Andrew is is really excited about teaching and and but lucid dreaming is my my gateway for that. So that's what I I'm looking looking for lucid dreaming to do for my spiritual self. All right, and Tim, good to see you Tim.

Tim Thayer

58:24

Good to see you too. Buddy. And Chelsea and Katie and everybody this is a it's wonderful to be here. I'll give a partial answer to Nikki's question too because it's relevant to my question. You know, something I've found incredibly valuable with lucid dreaming with this really kind of mushroom for me in the last couple of months has been kind of exploring no self or the fluidity of self because who wakes up in my dreams often feels very different from my waking self. You know, I look back and like, wow, that guy's pretty disinhibited. playful. And, and so, there's a lightness about it. And so it's been a nice process just in that kind of triangulation, like who's waking up and it's added some fluidity which has been nice to kind of my my practice I'm almost a more psychological level. But of course these you know, dovetail with spirituality. But my question is, when it comes to induction methods, particularly wild waken, waken Induced Lucid dreams, are there certain methods do they do they carry flavors with them, you know, are are they're kind do they lead to kind of certain types lucid dream, particularly for someone who's pretty new and doesn't have a lot of dreaming, manipulation control. I'm a bit more, you know, still rigid in my mind structure. I hit that wall beam, and it still feels like a beam most of the time. So the question about flavors with different methods.

Unknown Speaker

01:00:03

Right, Chelsea, Katie? Anything coming up on that?

Katie Love

01:00:14

You're welcome to share Charles right can you feelin me too? Okay. Yeah, I love this question. And so depending on what wild technique we use, does it create a different kind of flavor of a lucid dream and there's a couple levels to it. So in one way, yes, it definitely can. And in another way, not necessarily. So the two the two levels would be the not necessarily would be that whatever we're doing as a wild technique, is just bringing waking consciousness down into the dream. And if we do that, and it brings us into a lucid dream, we can then choose whatever we do in that dream, right. We have total freedom to choose whatever we do. So it doesn't necessarily have to flavor what ends up being in the dream. But when we use techniques like Montra, for example, what I've sometimes found when I've used mangia to descend, is that I'm then put into a dream scene or a dream environment that has imagery or different aspects of the environment that are flavored by that mantra. So it's kind of like a magical way of seeding the dream with certain certain things. And we can do that not only with mancia but we can also do it with intentionality. So if whatever practice we're using as a week and just lucid dream has certain flavors to it, that can then see it or infuse the dream with those particular flavors. Yeah.

Speaker 2

01:02:04

Beautiful Thank you, Katie. I was thinking that like the, the wild is the doorway what? What door you're going to use to get into the room of lucidity. And, and Katie was pointing out that some of those doors will will guide you to a particular type of lucid dream or your you get there faster. The other thing that I might just add is the level of lucidity that you have will help you be able to to put your hand through that wall where up until then, you haven't so much been able to do that you haven't been able to fly or or whatever you haven't been able to do some dream yoga techniques of changing one thing into another. The level of lucidity once you get in that door using your daytime practice and whatever you you go through one of these doors into the room of lucidity, then your level of lucidity, how lucid Are you will help you with Can you put your hand through that that wall or that beam and so you know if you can you know in the beginning once you enter that room of lucidity. Oh, I'm dreaming great. And if you can increase that level of lucidity and there's techniques to do that we've mentioned like one thing I've been using lately is stomping my feet. There's rubbing your hands and stuff if you can notice that you're increasing your level of lucidity like things get clearer the colors get brighter, then you'll have a better chance of doing those things that you want to do in that room of lucidity. So there's there's getting into the room and then aware you know how lucid Are you once you're in that room, if that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. And Gary, what you got for us, Gary.

Speaker 4

01:04:34

Thank you, Bodhi. I've had a number of episodes of lucidity in the past month one was really significant. Like wow, you know, but there were two others that I recall that in which I was lucid, but there was no dream and one of them I'm absolutely certain I was lucid because I did as a reality test and I put the fingers of one hand right through the palm of the other all the way through. That I'm curious about you know if they're if you've encountered this before even been asked about this before, had your own experience of it, or whether there's something about it that sounds fishy or what interpretation you can offer

Speaker 2

01:05:26

definitely not fishy that that's an awesome lucid dream and, and your

Unknown Speaker

01:05:33

dream. Yeah,

Speaker 2

01:05:36

okay. So let's let's talk about that. Let's see. See what we got on that. Chelsea or Katie you

Chelsea Waves

01:05:45

Katie's played with this one quite a bit. Actually. I feel like she'd be appropriate. Yeah.

Katie Love

01:05:53

Yeah, yeah. So you kind of Chelsea and I talked about this.

Chelsea Waves

01:06:00

We talked about this a lot.

Katie Love

01:06:06

And maybe we can both. Maybe we can both give an answer to it. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. So I actually have a question for you, Gary. When you said there was no dream were you seen black or white? Is there any sort of color lessness or color definitely

Speaker 4

01:06:22

wasn't white. More likely black. Was that it was at a deep lucid, a deep sleep moment of lucidity.

Katie Love

01:06:37

So, um, so one option for what it could be is that you're in a lucid dream, but there are no thoughts or dream images arising within the dream space. So just like when you're in a meditative state, and there are no thoughts arising, you can be in a dream with no images arising. And that I think this is likely what you were experiencing, but not the only possibility. And I'm wondering Chelsea did you want to chime in

Speaker 4

01:07:12

I thought maybe maybe the fact that I became lucid at the moment I became lucid, the dream just ended.

Katie Love

01:07:22

Right? Right. But if you were still in dreaming consciousness, yeah. Right. Then the reason why the dream ended is because the content of the mind ended.

Unknown Speaker

01:07:37

Because I was suddenly self conscious.

Katie Love

01:07:41

They'd be Yeah, that could be why Yeah, okay. Certainly. Yeah. I have this experience fairly regularly as well. I think that's what yeah, that's happening. But there's I think there are other possibilities the only one on the planet. Yeah, you're not. Chelsea also has this experience.

Chelsea Waves

01:08:05

I think it's also important to notice how you feel from the experience like what I see from you, Gary, and just even hearing that and sharing it with us is that you makes you really joyful and happy. Right. And there's a saying in the Tibetan Book of the Dead, recognition and liberation are simultaneous, right? So if we have dreams, if we have thoughts that are playing out in front of us, the dreams or thoughts are projection of our mind. And so, if we can recognize moment, this is a dream.

Speaker 4

01:08:38

Well, the reality is best I did was like, instant confirmation, you know?

Chelsea Waves

01:08:43

Yeah. So that's a way of actually experiencing that of your eye. Right. You could put the hand through the other hand, experiencing that visually, and not only in the waking state. Thank you for bringing that up. That was fun to explore. And I just want to share we also have some questions in the chat as well after we hear from I'm sorry, is it is it Darnielle? Okay. Yeah, sorry. Sorry.

Speaker 6

01:09:15

Okay, um, I, I've been avoiding lucid dreaming, practicing dream work, but I've been avoiding it because I didn't know enough about it. And my question would be really about the mantra going in and I love the idea of seeding the dream intention for the dream. But I'm interested I'm, I believe I'm mostly interested in the dream garden blooming, that I'm not controlling the bloom, but that I'm experiencing it and I wonder if that's still lucid dreaming or if there's always needs to be a level of control when searching.

Speaker 2

01:10:01

Great. This kind of sounds like I think it's called pole lucid dreaming, Katie is that with what it sounds like to you?

Katie Love

01:10:13

So that I would say that's that's one part of it. And I would start with actually, so even if we become lucid in a dream, most often the dream actually still unfolds before our eyes, even as we are lucidly navigating through it. So becoming lucid doesn't stop the dream environment from arising. It's pretty magical, actually. Yeah. And, and part of the reason for that is because the you know, thoughts are to waking consciousness as dreams or to dreaming consciousness. So until we are enlightened, we still have content arising in the scope of our dreams. Okay, and so that's the dream scene arising and unfolding. And that's, that's one level of the question. I'll just pause there and see does that does that make sense?

Speaker 6

01:11:13

I, I just wonder. I mean, my sense is that this is an epiphanic universe meaningful, joyous universe, and I'm proud of it. You know, I'm, but I'm not the whole I'm not the conductor. But it sounds like in a lucid dream, a person kind of wants to be the conductor. Which I am have no problem with that but I don't think I'm interested in conducting because I love the universe involving, though I see that what you're seeing is, if you're lucid dreaming, you can be more active in participating. Yes, yeah. And remembering Yeah, yeah,

Katie Love

01:11:56

you can be more active in participating and then the that other level that Bodie was talking about, which is part of lucid dreaming, is where you aren't controlling or manipulating the dream whatsoever. You're just moving through it, but you're aware that you're dreaming while you're doing that. So you're lucid to the dream. You're not manipulating or changing anything. You're just witnessing it and letting it unfold. And, and one beautiful way of working with this practice is you can see how when you get pulled into certain aspects of the dream, like you grasp onto it, because you love it, or you push it away because you're repulsed by it and you don't want that experience. If you do either of those things in the context of a pellucid dream. You go non lucid, and you don't have the awareness that you did where you recognize this as a dream. I'm an active participant in my reality. So that could be one one way of approaching it that might be more true for you is to do. Like if I become lucid in a dream, I'm not going to try to change anything. I'm just going to be with the dream and be present to it and move through it. Pelle lucidly.

Unknown Speaker

01:13:13

Have you spell that? Pelosi mi

Katie Love

01:13:16

ke E L L? U C? I d is pellucid. I'll put it in the chat as well. Yeah. Ken Wilber is the one I think who has actually coined that phrase, but it's kind of like a moving meditation in a dream space.

Speaker 6

01:13:33

Yeah, well, I think I'm getting it. Um, what what is not lucid dreaming? Maybe that's also the question.

Katie Love

01:13:44

Yeah. So yeah, just want to view on it. Take this or I can continue as well. You feel Chelsea?

Chelsea Waves

01:13:56

Bear Yeah, I can I can share. So a non lucid dream is when we write when we can tract. Like that would be a non lucid dream. So I'm thinking about like in the waking state, for example, when we're non lucid, we're just kind of like moving through our day without any awareness at all. Things are arising things are happening, but it's just it's just happening. We're not even noticing. We're not co creating somebody put in the chat co conducting with life. Whereas lucid dreaming, we have the ability to recognize, oh, I'm empowered to recognize that this is a dream. Just like in the waking state. Oh, I am empowered in this present moment to recognize I am not the contraction that is happening. I can feel the contraction that's happening, but I'm not the contraction that's happening. So I can co create with the universe in this moment to maybe show up as something that's needed. Right. But if we're non lucid, we can't do that. We just show up as our habitual patterns moving today. So I thank you. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker

01:15:12

thank you so much.

Chelsea Waves

01:15:15

Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2

01:15:19

Thank you, Chelsea. That was beautiful. Those are great questions. Dario. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker

01:15:25

Thank you.

Speaker 2

01:15:27

All right. Did we have any more questions? In the chat?

Chelsea Waves

01:15:35

We do. So let's see here. I think we answered Danielle's question. And then let's see. Has anyone used the Fitbit to track sleeping? And then also is is kind of intertwined in a way would you recommend using gladdening to help induce lucid dreaming

Speaker 2

01:16:08

I've used the Fitbit way back when they first came out. And it was it definitely helped me realize that I was not at the time getting good sleep. And so it helped me value sleep and a part of sleep is REM or rapid eye movement, which is where we get our lucid dreaming so it encouraged me to to have better sleep hygiene. So those kinds of devices now there's devices, there's rings and all kinds of cool stuff and I've been kind of tempted to look at him again. So yeah, I think they, they do tell you, you know, the quality of sleep, which is kind of a part of it, you know, it helps, you know, especially if you live a busy life that might put a little bit more emphasis on hey, you need better sleep. So those do help. Katie or Chelsea, do you have anything else on that?

Chelsea Waves

01:17:19

Now, I still really can't hear you very well, buddy. I don't know what it is. I don't know. Maybe you want to try taking out the headphones that you're using the microphone through? Yeah. Bodie turn up your microwave, someone says Okay, let's see what else is in here. Um, I just want to take a moment and I saw that Kara posted you know, I think a benefit is of lucid dreaming is is recognizing when maybe you're depressed and you know, having inspiration to to be alive and see maybe the fluidity of life and so I just wanted to touch on that. Because I've definitely been in that space too. So thank you for sharing it definitely can inspire us to continue our lives day to day. And then there's stuff coming in so the chats moving around.

Chelsea Waves

01:18:31

See. Regarding Gary's question about no imagery and a dream would not the hand through which he put his other finger constitute enough imagery to qualify as a dream. Katie, do you want to talk about that at all?

Katie Love

01:18:51

Yeah, sure. I think I think it's a really valid question. And yes, and I think it would just be my understanding was that maybe he did that first and then it was black after that, but maybe Gary, you can come on and respond to that was it that you did the finger through the hand first, and then it turns to all black

Katie Love

01:19:22

maybe it's not here anymore.

Chelsea Waves

01:19:23

He might not be anyway.

Katie Love

01:19:27

Yeah, so but yeah, that definitely could be enough imagery to qualify it as a dream on its own. And you may have had a sequence after that where there wasn't anything.

Chelsea Waves

01:19:40

Great. Great. And then we have another one in the chat. Does liking slash disliking? Dream content and a lucid dream usually lead to non lucidity. But do you do you want to try to answer that one? Did you change anything with your microphone?

Unknown Speaker

01:19:58

I did.

Chelsea Waves

01:19:59

Is it better? It is better. Oh, much better. Thank you.

Speaker 2

01:20:04

I learned something. All right. Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. Like Katie had recently mentioned that your attack its attachment you're attaching. You know you're getting attached to it in some way like you're repulsed or something. So add version, or, you know, it just it can. It can throw you out of the lucid dream for sure. So, that's where the you can stay in longer. In a lucid dream, the less that you're attached to having an outcome or something in the dream is happening, good or bad. staying neutral will keep you in the lucid dream longer. So if you're attached to accomplishing something, or you want something to happen, or you're trying to manipulate characters in the dream, yeah. If you'll get kicked out pretty easily I do. And then I'm like, Ah, man, so then you adjust, you know, okay. And it's great because that's what happens in your waking state too, you know? So can you go through your waking state and, you know, some crazy drivers honking at you and driving crazy or something road rage? Can you not react? Can you just respond? And so, yeah, the more we can do that in the dream state, the more we can do it in the waking state, and vice versa, you know, so hopefully that answers or helps answers that question. Do either of you ladies have any more to add to that? Okay, we got two more questions showing up on the screen. And I think next we have Shante that's pronounced correctly.

Speaker 7

01:22:23

Yes, it's Shaunt. Yeah. I just had that little sticker on okay. Yeah. So I'm still I I'm not sure if I have lucid dreams I'm still you know, following along Dario, Dario, this question of of this distinction and some of the some of the points that I'm getting is that it it leads to a state of like, empowerment in a way like, is the distinction, conscious choice that you are able to, because, because, because if you are if that is, then wouldn't that also mean that there is some sort of attraction or like some sort of thing that is, is is might be called attachment. Like there's preference. You know, if you say, oh, I want to do this. I'm wondering is this semantics sometimes people how I've heard people say, like, yeah, I jumped up did this thing and it was awesome. And then I flipped around and then I beat this thing. Does enemy a thing of fun than this? It's like this like, dramatic story and I'm like, I do drink dream journaling. And, you know, I do recall and remember, I'm like, is that polluted? Dreaming, remembering? Is it remembering, or is it lucid? Like, is it semantic? So these are some questions that are that are coming up for me, you know, it and you know, there's also the aspect of like feelings and desires. So like, if you're not going to be detached or like want anything and then you still want to be lucid and aware of, I don't know, it's an interesting kind of combination of like, what is the meaning that comes out of all of it? Or how do you know if you will have been if you're, if you're fine with the choices, or are you making the conscious choices? I know I just put a lot of things but I'm, I'm like piecing together these parts that were coming up for me around, like how do you tell or what is that distinct distinguishing point of like what a lucid dream is, and whether it is an awareness in the dream that you recall.

Speaker 2

01:24:54

Great. I love how deep your thinking shot. Thank you. Thank you. And Katie and Chelsea, how what do you think? What's your, what's your thoughts on? Yeah,

Chelsea Waves

01:25:07

so kind of what I'm hearing is like, what is a lucid dream? Right. And a lucid dream is recognizing that you're dreaming in the dream. So I'm just gonna let that sit for a moment.

Speaker 7

01:25:24

That feels like a colon or like a like a meditation in itself. Like recognizing that I'm dreaming in the dream. Okay, like what tells you that? It is like it just feels like a recursive like. I don't know. I don't know if it's a feeling like another thing that was coming up. Is it a frequency band, like that? If you reject something, then you fall out? You go lower frequency.

Chelsea Waves

01:25:51

So yeah, yeah, yeah. I love what you're bringing up and I love that you're like, pinging on to all of these different things. And I think that sometimes you know, our minds want to, like piece all of the things together, right? Without maybe getting the foundation of what's actually happening. And so if you're a meditator, do you meditate. Okay, so when you're meditating, right, and you notice a thought there's a recognition that happens right when you notice the thought

Speaker 7

01:26:33

yes and no. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Katie, do

Chelsea Waves

01:26:38

you want to share? Excited to move towards your computer?

Katie Love

01:26:42

I was just looking at the chat.

Chelsea Waves

01:26:48

Yeah, so it can be a yes and a no. So I guess what I want to know is like

Chelsea Waves

01:26:58

you're bringing in a lot of different things. And when I'm hearing from you, as you want to be able to know when you're recognizing that you're lucid dreaming, and somebody put in the chat, there's an experience of freedom. Right, so you're not necessarily caught in the habitual patterns of just letting the dream arise. Right So normally, when we're non lucid, we're just letting the the our lives, our waking lives arise, without any recognition that we have any kind of ability to co create with the universe or with other people. It's just happening. It's like a movie, right? So we're watching the movie. And we think that we're part of the movie rather than being able to back up and see oh, there's a there's a screen right here. And there's space around the screen. So I am not the projection that's happening. Right. So when you're in a lucid dream, there's a projection that's happening. And you're recognizing that you are not the projection projection that's happening, that you have the freedom to recognize that Israel is a dream. And then you can choose to fly you can choose to beat someone up, you can do any of the things that you said right. And so that I think you asked some more questions underneath there and I think maybe if we can hold them for next time and kind of get into more of the like, because I've heard you bring up grasping an aversion or like, kind of those pieces in there too, or pushing something away or kind of taking it in. So if it's okay with you, we'll go over to Kim because we're about towards the end. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 2

01:28:52

And shot. That was some great stuff that maybe we can, Chelsea and Katie and I will think about what you're asking and you know, maybe it will be next month. Maybe we can dive more deeper into answering those questions in a deeper way. So thank you. Yeah. All right, Kim.

Speaker 8

01:29:16

Thank you guys, for doing this. This is just wonderful. So my question is a little bit along the lines that Sean's question is about is the intention. As a as a practitioner, you know, I really have a strong wish to be lucid in my dream so that I can practice in my dreams and I'm having thoughts about can I then do open awareness practice where I'm just observing without, you know, let watching it unfold? Or is it more Shama Tao where the dream becomes the object? So those are sort of my questions, but I guess first is, I had one beginning of a lucid dream at the workshop with Andrew last last month in Costa Rica, where I took the Galantamine and I, I jumped up in the dream and started to fly. So my question is, should I just stick with that just sort of sort of increasing the lucidity of my dreaming before I started having these aspirations of doing my vaudrey Autumn practice and sort of sophisticated, you know, spiritual practices. Thank you.

Speaker 2

01:30:31

You bet. Yeah, me personally. The joy just got me deeper and wanting to have more lucidity. So doing joyful things. If you enjoy flying, you enjoy that. Or you enjoy changing one thing into another. You know it for me it went from flying and then realizing, Oh, actually, changing one thing into another is a part of my yoga. Yoga practice my dream yoga practice all that's great. It's the low level, you know, it's level one or two or something. Yeah, I'll I'll practice that. It's fun. Okay, great. And then finding more things that I enjoy doing that is increasing my abilities in the dream world without getting attached and getting kicked out. So it's a lot of Yeah, you know, like practice. Yeah, it's and there's so Katie or Katie, do you have something on this?

Katie Love

01:31:40

Yeah, yeah. Great question, Ken. So it's it's both linear and nonlinear. I think for each person where there is kind of a natural progression that you would have based on who you are and what your experiences in the dream state in terms of what you can do. Right. I've heard of actually, I think is Anne Louise recently had her first lucid dream. And because she was a meditator, and a practitioner, she had this like amazing meditative experience in her first lucid dream. So that's totally nonlinear. Right? That's not what we would expect. We would expect you might have to build that up. But it doesn't necessarily happen that way. Because the dream space is a totally free space. So I suggest starting with what brings you joy to do what you really want to do. And also what's easy for you in that state. Because if you can have some successes, in the lucid dream with what you're trying to create or achieve, then you have more confidence to continue down that path. So yes, I suggest like yeah, following the joy following what's easy for you, but also having like what you really want to do as part of your intention as well. So I hear with you like you really want to do spiritual practice in dream state. And I would keep that as part of your intention, but maybe just have multiple layers or tears to your intention, so that you don't, you know, get disappointed if you're not achieving that. So that you have multiple options once you're in the dream state and then can access whichever one is accessible to you in that moment.

Speaker 8

01:33:37

So having only thank you for that. So having only had really a few one or two lucid dreams, for me might be just to say hey, I'd love to just have more lucidity and my dreams. Just kind of start with that simple. I would

Katie Love

01:33:53

say you want to say I want to have more lucidity. But you also want to say what you want to do when you become lucid. Because yeah, because sometimes you're like, Oh, I had a lucid dream. I had lucidity cool, but I didn't do anything because I didn't have the intention to do anything right. Or to create anything so I would say have multiple layers to it.

Speaker 2

01:34:13

Absolute Absolutely. Fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, the longer you stay in a lucid dream, you're like okay, what do I want to do now? Then, so hopefully it kind of have that layered Oh, I just achieved this what I love now I'm gonna try and do this or, you know, like, wow, I think I'm I think I have enough lucidity I can now practice meditating and dream. That's that's high, high level, you know? So, work your way up. Have some, some goals. Maybe you know, or some intentions that are, you know, just entry level and, and, and see see how long you stay in that dream because you might get several things accomplished or intentions things that bring you joy. So great. And Kara.

Speaker 9

01:35:08

Hi, thanks so much for this. I just wanted to speak a little bit what that was talking about because I know Andrew talks a lot about that the preliminaries for this practice are so important. The practice of this is so important because there's no thinking that can get you to lucidity in a dream. And it's not your mind that is your friend in in in getting this lucidity. So you're gonna think 100,000 ways around it. And the best thing I've heard is that it's Truman in The Truman Show. And he gets more suspicious and more suspicious and he starts to feel and taste these little things that don't feel right, right. So that suspicious system and a buzzing in my body is is what leads me to, to going oh, I should do that state check. But the other thing I want to say to chant was once I had a dream, I became a lucid, and by the way, flying is is great, but if I jump, who hi I have bounced myself right out of the dream, so I have to do everything gently. But once I had a dream where I was lucid and I couldn't believe it and I went into various rooms to tell people Do you not realize what's going on here? Do you realize that we are lucid? And what I realized when I woke up was the light turned an actual experience of lucidity into a plotline in my dream and I was no longer lucid, but I was my mind is so fucked up fucking tricky. The ego is so fucking tricky that I just incorporated it into my dream and I was like That is cool. There's no amount of thinking that can do this. You just have to practice and it's like Grace. It's like it'll happen. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker

01:37:23

thank you,

Speaker 2

01:37:24

Kara. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah, it's there's there's a trickiness to it and it's just practicing. Yeah, do it. How do I want to engage with these dream characters? Do I want to share with them that this is a dream? Yeah, maybe it might. You know, do I want to do any healing? Work on myself others is all kinds of things. So yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea Waves

01:37:54

I really love what Karen just shared, which is like the thinking part is not like the thinking actually can trapped us. Anyway. It Like It's beautiful. To have the thinking this and Shanti even brought this up. It's like you said is there a feeling to it? You ask that question, and I think it depends on the person. For me, sometimes there will be a feeling to I'm dreaming. You know, I think some people will be more inclined to maybe thinking to themselves, I'm dreaming. And then some people might even be in action and recognize that they're dreaming. So that happens to me too. I'll be like swimming in the ocean, in a dream and then all of a sudden, I'll be swimming, swimming, everything's totally normal. And then I'm like, this action right? Of me moving my arms through the water actually causes me to recognize that I am dreaming. So it's a really part of the beauty of lucid dreaming is you really get to know yourself. Like what works for you. There isn't going to be an answer that is solid for everyone across the board. It's really diving into your own mind your own body, your own subconscious and getting to know it and familiarizing yourself with it. So thank you, Kara, for bringing that up. I saw you unmuted so if you've if you feel like you want to respond and and then we'll conclude because I know we're over time.

Speaker 7

01:39:31

Yeah, I was just reminded there's a lucid dream or a recurring dream that I that I have that I was reminded in this conversation of that, you know, I'm still wanting to like, semantically make sense is it lucid is it's that every so often like my dreams and with me kind of going into a theater with and the theater can change with different people and like I'm like in the audience and I interact differently with the different audience members and like right as I'm about to watch like this show, I wake up you know, as right as the the production, the theater production or whatever is about to start like I wake up. So I'm like, okay, that's very very clear metaphor dream weaver What is it lucid Are you know, it's just an interesting you know, Dream language to you know, in writing the length the dream journaling, you know how my subconscious or Dreamweaver speaks. So, the I think the thing is like the intentionality of having the experience reflect more of something that is inspiring to my desires versus like, just like kind of like the processing of you know, shadow or, you know, of emotional things. I think that's that is also something but yeah, there's just like, I just, there's, I'm in the question still. What is it always so grateful for this experience? Yes.

Speaker 2

01:41:34

Shawn, so one thing that you can try is, is you are your subconscious is giving you this wonderful opportunity to have to have to become lucid, fully lucid. And so it's giving you this reoccurring situation and if you will, take that as a clue. So you can throughout the day, say anytime I'm in a movie theater, I'm going to ask, Is this a dream? And so, you know, because your your your dream weaver has given you these movie theaters that you're in. So you take you can take that if you want and say every time I'm in a movie theater, I'm going to ask this question, and that will trigger the lucidity that I think you really really want. So try that if you if it sounds good to you. And that's that's an amazing little you know, click and and you'll just have that lucidity. The movie might not go on but you'll be lucid and know Oh, this is a dream. So that's that might help and answer a lot of questions for you. So we're going to close the q&a right now. Thank you, everyone for those great questions. And it was wonderful. We're, we're getting a lot deeper as we go along. And I really, really thank everyone. So and what are we? What are what do we do next? Ladies?

Chelsea Waves

01:43:12

Sorry, I just want to let everybody that's still here. No, thank you for being with us for the entire time. We really appreciate it. And I am going to put our email addresses in the chat if you have any feedback or want to contact us for any reason. Feel free to reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you. And then I am just going to say a little bit of a blessing and then Katie will do identification of marriage. So just want to say to everybody that here may you have lucid dreams. May you have vivid dreams. May you recognize that you are dreaming in the dream. May you become aware and each moment filling yourself and others with love and compassion for the preciousness of this life

Katie Love

01:44:26

and whatever MERIT has been accumulated by us gathering here by this group, we dedicate to the benefit of all sentient beings. May it be so

Katie Love

01:44:44

thank you all so much.

Chelsea Waves

01:44:46

Yeah. Bye everybody. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker

01:44:50

Thank you,

Katie Love

01:44:53

your friends because they're keeping

Chelsea Waves

01:44:56

another couple of months yeah, please tell your friends. So everyone's welcome

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