Developing a Magnetic Brand: Leveraging Instagram to Build Community and Increase Engagement - Carolyn Stine

1:45AM Oct 11, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Carolyn Stine

Keywords:

people

instagram

feel

brand

nonprofit

create

connect

showing

messaging

magnetic

talk

digital

story

community

human

important

pov

desires

philanthropy

share

Hey, I'm john.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community, where nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started.

Welcome, welcome, Becky,

we get to be the rabid fans. today. We are

the rabid fans today. I kind of want to like before I introduce our guests, I want to tell everybody how we met because it's such an interesting winding road. So we have an incredible sponsor to wear for good pro scholarships, MSP digital so if anybody knows the kind chip Stein who is leading that organization, they are such a great they're such great marketers stewardship partners. But as we're visiting with chip, he says, I think you need to meet my daughter like everything you're saying, I think it's what my daughter does. I'm still trying to figure it all out, which is hilarious, so sweet. Yeah, I think my dad knows what I do either. And so we meet Kara, and she is basically the Carrie Bradshaw of the nonprofit world. She is in New York. She was in the fashion world she is a foodie and she ends up figuring out social media and having this incredible blog and I'm gonna let you tell the story. But along the way she figures out the secret sauce for leveraging Instagram to do a lot of things building community increasing engagement and doing incredible storytelling. So we're gonna dive in that into that today. She is an amazing brand messaging and storytelling coach so if you are someone who says how do I do this online? How do I find my digital voice? create my digital soul for my organization? Kara is one of those people that's going to bring you on so she has worked with amazing companies like you know Hugo Boss, club Monaco casual doing digital strategy and marketing and then she just flat out left the corporate marketing world in 2018 started her own business and is championing female entrepreneurs so this is why I love her Carolyn, welcome to the we are for good podcast so glad you're here.

Oh my gosh I It is a pleasure and a privilege to be here that was quite an intro I love it's funny because what I'm hearing too is there's like the family element and how we met that connection Becky but then it's like anytime we meet someone and you know even if it's digital XYZ over Instagram you know, they become part of our family in this little bit of a way too so I love it

and the story is just so interesting the way everybody finds their way into the nonprofit world but I'm very curious about you and you have this just amazing story living in New York City finding your purpose kind of take us back tell us about Carol growing up and what led you to here to today

oh my gosh yes well it's funny we were just talking about this you know off off camera but there's definitely an energy and a glamour to New York and there is also a raw and real energy like scrap it so I feel like it's always an interesting balance and it's interesting being here because I grew up in Connecticut about an hour outside the city you know very small town you know, a little bit more suburban. Definitely not New York City flavor. So I feel like what really drew me here was just having an experience of that Yeah, like something that felt more expansive and I didn't even know what I wanted to be exposed to but I was like, but I know there's more so I want to feel it all. And you definitely been here longer than I thought it was going to but you know what it's like one day at a time right? Who knows where any of us will end up?

Well I love it so I mean you're just such an expert in this space and I love the way that you've used social media as like this force for good, huge and empowering women entrepreneurs and you've got you've amassed such a following of people that just listen and hang on every word that you share. I wonder if you would kind of walk us through some of magnetic elements and I use that word a lot but what are some of them this how do you discover the magnetic elements of your story?

Yeah, oh my gosh, okay, magnetic elements magnetism all of this juicy stuff. I'm feeling really called to actually kind of dispel a rumor here rumor here a little bit because I don't think that there is a magic formula or a silver bullet for you know, becoming magnetic and attracting people XYZ. I think that we really become an our magnetic when we are lit up and in touch with ourselves plugged into ourselves, like feeling our desires, and wanting to share that light with other people. And I think that, you know, that's when we really go from having an idea having a feeling to really being able to move Someone is when we're really plugged into our own source and are radiating outwards, you know with that energy. And I think that there's a really big permission piece there to magnetism, you know, feeling that for yourself, but also then giving someone else permission to plug into that and plug into themselves in their own way to and to share from that place.

So I love this idea of just being it's about connectivity and about awakening, kind of a nuance of who you are and diving into your passion, can you walk our listeners through like, a few key steps that they could discover those magnetic elements within, you know, their organization, or maybe it's their own personal brand?

I think that the first key step is letting go of the idea of perfection, of wanting to be likable of wanting to appeal to everybody, you know, maybe even having a curated presence. I think that so much, especially as women, you know, and I noticed this in working with women and and myself as well, I think that the attachment to perfection can feel and be really quite stifling. And who are you ultimately helping, you know, by doing that, by showing up in a way that, you know, you feel like it needs to be perfect, you feel like professionalism looks a certain way. I think that we get the reaction and the response that we want, so often from the people that we want to serve in our community by showing up as our full selves and allowing ourselves to be seen, like in our mess with our shadows as real humans, because that's when people can see themselves in us, right. That's when people can feel really connected to us on a deep level. And just I think right now, especially more than ever, it's really a values and mission driven economy that we are operating out of. And people connect to us by that shared emotional territory, those shared values, and they can't get there. If we're not letting people in on all of our humanity.

I love it. Because social media gets a bad rap that it's shallow, you know, but what you just talked about is the stuff that people connect on is the values, I mean, some of the deepest stuff that we would hold true to our character, that's the people that we gravitate to, and connect with. So I'm thinking about this conversation in two ways, because our organizations all have their own social media presence, and we're trying to find voice for that. But I think there's this huge space. And I know you work with a lot of like people that are thought leaders. And we just firmly believe that the executive director or the leaders of nonprofits, their voices are just as important online, especially in that transparent capacity just to create connection and connectivity today, that we didn't really have that option A few years ago, could you talk about just creating your own personal voice versus maybe that of the organization how they could compliment

it's funny because I think that we used to think in terms of you know, this is a brand a brand is this, you know, you go to a brand feed on Instagram and it has a color palette and the look and feel and you know, a certain graphic, a logo, certain quotes, you know, XYZ, what does that look like, versus You know, there's so much more freedom and flexibility that we often feel when it's a person who's showing up as an entity. And I think that it's really important in both cases, to think about, you know, how you're showing up as a really beautiful kind of marriage and microcosm of the individual, you and the collective, you know, you expressing yourself, you really kind of weaving your essence, your magic that only you have into everything you share. So you have that authenticity, but then marrying that back to you know, how are you showing up in service of the people whose lives you want to change? You know, what is your What is your mission? Like? What is the movement that you are leading, that's definitely a self assess God and not right there, like movements, activate audiences, right, that's what awakens people and that's what really brings them in. And I think that when you confuse those two pieces together, you know, whether you're showing up as a founder, you know, as a personal, you know, a solopreneur, like me, you know, a business owner, where I am my brand, think that actually, it serves a lot of these brands a lot more to think, as if they were a smaller entity, as a human or humans, because that's who people are really connected to.

That's the beauty to me of social is that it is so entirely social, and it's not limited to the one and you're more successful when you embrace, grabbing somebody else's hand or aligning yourself again, to your point, values or brands that connect to your values or who you want to show up as. And I think that you can be such a brand amplifier, when you do it in the way that you've expressed here, which is it's not just about me as a human being. It's about me as I'm connected to all of these different individuals. And so I kind of want to rewind for a second because your story is so interesting. I would love for you to tell everyone how you got to New York City where you started and how it led to your consultancy today.

Yeah, oh my gosh, okay, it is a winding road I'm going to try to be as concise as possible while still hitting all of the important elements. So I graduated from college, I moved to New York started working in the fashion industry immediately I was doing you know a mix of all digital all e commerce but operations marketing strategy, especially, you know, 10 years ago. Digital departments were not what they are today, it was like one or two people do 60 job functions. Whereas now you know, a social media team might have 15 people. My first job, there were two of us like SEO one day photo shoot production another day, I learned so much, none of this is going to be shade on any of this to be clear up front. But you know, I worked my way up the ladder worked for all of these brands in fashion. And it was always this really interesting point of resistance and itchiness for me, because I was getting such external validation for doing what I did, you know, working in fashion, it's so glamorous, free samples, like I tell people at a anywhere at a networking event at a wedding, what I did, and I got so much validation. But on the inside, I felt like something was wrong, something was missing, there was just this eternal sense of kind of just discomfort. And so I just kind of was like, Well, I guess everyone feels this way. You know, maybe this is just this is just how it is. I'd push it down, push it down. And after working in fashion for almost 10 years, I ended up leaving and going to work in the food world. I worked at chobani corporate headquarters in New York, that was my last corporate job managing their digital platforms. And I thought because I love food, I'm such a foodie, I was like, Oh, I figured it out. I'm gonna leave fashion and go to the food world. And that is gonna solve all of this kind of like internal roiling I feel this, this this prickliness in a way, which in hindsight was so clearly my intuition that I was ignoring. But I was at chobani for a year. And I just at that point, was starting to question everything. For the first time, you know, my beliefs, my desires, my relationship, my job, I was like, nothing feels good, nothing feels good. It has to be more there has to be more depth, there has to be more something I don't know what it is. So I ended up quitting my job breaking up with my long term boyfriend moving out of my apartment, leaving the corporate world altogether, kind of burned everything to the ground. And I was kind of like, well, Now's my time to figure this out. Let's see, like, let's just kind of feel into and see what comes next. I started a consulting business I was doing, you know, brand strategy, social media, strategy, ecommerce, email, a little bit of all of that pulled together, because that was really my past life, I essentially replicated what I was doing in corporate consulting for brands, and I loved the entrepreneurial just the environment, I was able to create, and being really thoughtful about dictating how I wanted to set up my life and create my days what that flow felt like. But I also had a feeling that this wasn't the end stop on the journey. I was like, we're getting somewhere, I'm meeting all these people, like it feels juicy. But this isn't the thing, I'm not gonna be doing this five years from now, when, of course, I had a pandemic, realization slash pivot, which I feel like is so basic, now.

We've got one of those,

another doctor nation, and I realized, you know, because I was surrounded by such a powerful community of female entrepreneurs, so much of what I had done in my business was, um, you know, social media, and really using my presence in order to connect with people I had started blogging years before on the side and kind of built up this presence on the side, which really helped to allow me to step into client work when I left, I glossed over that part. But when I left corporate, and started consulting, and what I kept hearing from all the women around me was how challenging social media and their messaging and their writing all of that was, and I kept thinking to myself, but it doesn't have to be that hard. And so I kind of had that aha moment that what I really wanted to be doing wasn't working with brands behind the scenes, you know, dictating their brand strategy, but working really intimately with female entrepreneurs, with female business owners to help them bring all of their juicy essence and magic and just everything that makes them their own human to life, in their messaging, and anywhere they choose to have impact.

And like Look at her face, as she's describing that last pace. I mean, part Your face is so lit up. It's so vibrant. And you did the Hannah brancher, who you know, is the founder of more love letter, she says, Listen to your nudges. And it's like you listen to your nudge, and you chased it. And I will tell you, I had kind of an existential crisis like that, as well. But I was in nonprofit at the time, something did not feel right. It didn't mean that I needed to leave nonprofit and meant that I need to figure out where was my space and nonprofit where was where was my group of people where was my niche, you know, and what I was doing at the time was not the thing it was closed because it definitely filled my heart and filled my bucket so I can't help but just a moat right now, for those especially in our field who are just trudging through pandemic and trudging through, the way that it's always been and how the way that it always has been done. jive with this new digital social explosion that we're seeing happen and I'm just encouraging everyone, if you're feeling that, that gut that that feeling in your gut, listen to that, listen to your nudges and see if you need to get you know in a different headspace to do the thing you're most passionate about.

There's a reason why I keep feeling like the word alignment is coming up this season like it's about getting where we need to each get that can really go deep into our purpose, our passion and really show up in the way that the world needs us and our seats so your story is just so in alignment with everything I've been thinking this season so far. So thanks for sharing that with us.

I think alignment being in alignment with your purpose with your essence is also such an important element of you know, being magnetic and creating in a magnetic way too.

I love that. Okay, so we're gonna we're going to pivot a little bit and we're going to dive straight into Instagram, and I'm walking into your to my confessional. Yep, I've been on Instagram for years and I will say I am a part of the cadre of Instagram users that I would call Grandma. Grandma knows how to post grandma knows how to tag but there is so much more to Instagram now with reels and igtv and stories and the way that grandma's posting is not getting the eyeballs in the way that we need to be posting so I am taking notes keroh lead us through how we can leverage Instagram to create these magnetic brands start at the beginning.

Yes Oh my gosh, well, everything that we've been talking about prior is all relevant to the platform as well like really honing your messaging really kind of bringing together you know your X Factor your essence all the magic that only you can bring in tying that to to your mission to that like collective movement and bringing that to life in an authentic way and it can be really simple just I want to remind people to you don't need all the fancy bells and whistles it can be quite simple if your message is so there's that nobody's coming to your profile and being like wow, I really want this because you have a Canva quote or you know like x y z you know what I mean? It's like it's everything's a vessel right? Instagram is a vessel it is a container like what are you filling it with? That's the juice like that's the sauce but I think it's also really important to remember that it is human to human connection you know, it is not a right to get likes and comments and clicks each one of them is a true privilege. And if you think about how you're connecting with people in real life you know think about bringing that into the online space would you you know go up to somebody in real life and and demand that they like follow you or check out your service probably not you would cultivate a relationship there's give and take there and so I think that thinking about it in that way not just taking but giving and not feeling like you're owed anything I think is a really powerful first step and reframe

okay humans this is this is our values everyone matters. Are you looking at it as if it's like a piece of technology? Are you looking at as like humans trying to connect find community I mean, that makes it already a conversation everybody should be excited to get into

Yeah, and the analogy of would you go up and just talk to a stranger about these things follow me for the rest of my life true, because it may not even be relevant. We don't even know who they are, what their interests are, which is a great nod to segment and target and understand who your customer is, and target accordingly. So give us the little Instagram mini master class how can we sort of take these brands leverage Instagram? Where should people start?

I mean, it starts within it starts within I feel like I'm a broken record with this. But I think that so much with Instagram, your messaging and your energy you're bringing to it strong Trump's strategy and Trump's tactics. I think that a lot of times people are like, oh the what's the hack? what's the what's the hashtag hack, I need the hashtag hack or you know, I need to show up and do five deals a week a real same thing is just a vessel it is a more dynamic vessel for sharing content. So I think getting really really clear on your why on what you are, why you are doing what you are doing and how you then a unique human or unique humans in your case are showing up in this space and the real transformation you're creating. Speaking to that and cultivating conversation around that I think is the like the key thing. The bells and whistles are bells and whistles

yeah I mean I think it's also threads to how we would talk about any strategy it's like the strategy and the ethos need to be core like don't get hung up on the tactics because Instagrams gonna keep dropping new features to all the time so it's impossible to to just chase that only,

which is probably why grandma can't keep up right?

I feel like that's kind of the fun of it to like it is that so much of it is beyond our control. We show up how you know we how we can literally or we control how we show up in relationship. into the thing and what we bring to it. And like all things, you know, everything changes changes the only constant so getting to kind of flex and play and bringing play to it, I think is really powerful.

Would you kind of walk through the key content that you can create on Instagram and like what is positioned best for a post versus carousel versus, you know a story because honestly, some people have probably never use Instagram to its full potential always die when I go to profiles that don't have story highlights, because I'm like, to me, that's the first thing I want to look at is like, kind of the curated Tell me about yourself, but a lot of people don't even use that feature. So it's, yeah,

it's super interesting, because everybody consumes differently, too, right? You don't know, you know, our work, our job is to show up and share, you know, across these different tools, we don't know at what point a message is going to connect with somebody like that's up to the universe, right, that's what I think, you know, we put the content out there, we don't know at what time or which post is going to be the thing but you know, we show up and take aligned action. When you're posting on your feed, whether that's you know, a static posts, you know, just single photo, a carousel reel and igt, TV, video, whatever it is, that's kind of your your storefront your home that you are inviting somebody into. And so often, because of the algorithm, now your people are not necessarily going to be seeing your content come up in real time. So a really powerful kind of behavioral activity that has emerged as people will go to somebody's profile, and they'll consume, they'll ingest a lot of someone's content at once. And that's where you really want it to feel cohesive and all really infused with your, your message, your movement, your ethos, so people are consuming and they're getting kind of little different ways in with different posts, you know, you're talking about it a little bit of a different way, but it feels really like okay, I, I feel what this person stands for, that's really important. Whether it's real or static posts, at the end of the day, it's actually not as important. It's more important that somebody is connecting with what you have to say and that way, and reels can be fun, you know, take the pressure off, they can be really simple. It can be you just standing there, maybe you're pointing, you're dancing, whatever it is, you don't need to do fancy transitions. Unless you know you're an influencer. And that's a completely different ballgame. If you're really looking to connect with people and you know, potentially find the people you want to work with. That's what's most important. Having that put messaging in there. And I will say stories, just a small aside, stories are so powerful. I think it's one of the most important tools on the platform, especially when in video, you're speaking to the camera, because it's the way somebody can get the most kind of read 360 image of you and your likeness and your energy and you know your inflection and you know how you flick your hair to the left every six seconds, whatever it is, I feel like they can capture a sense of you as a human in a really intimate way. So it's a powerful tool for bringing people in and allowing them to feel connected to you and it's a really really powerful tool for for sharing your offer and for selling as well.

And we we believe that entirely and anyone who's ever produced a video, in nonprofit whether it be for your gala or a campaign it's like it's just a different animal when you have a human being you're hearing their voice quiver when they're talking about something you see them like kind of react and in an emotional way and it takes your engagement to the next level you've you feel connected to someone because you're in you're in their space, they're being vulnerable, they're sharing something that's really important on their heart and so I 100% believe that video has got to translate so much better than a static post a photo anything that you could possibly say so just here to say I agree

Yeah, there's it's like a whole toolbox at our disposal you know, some people you were saying with story highlights john, some people consume in that way and story highlights are just you're able to archive these really ephemeral 24 hour bits of content into collections so people can consume them more easily because that's what they're doing they're coming to your feed so it's all just different ways in to see what you stand for and also at the end of the day to be like hi a human lives here.

You're so right that I mean we talked about multi channel which was several years ago really omni channel all the all consuming every channel all the time right now. I love that you're pointing out that we think of Instagram as one channel, but it's got all these different ways that people consume it. You know, there's our people in our parents generation don't necessarily know there are stories sometimes I feel like they didn't know what the circles were Yeah, they never tapped on them. So really, really interesting way to think about that. Can I ask you one more question? On Instagram? How do you deal with naysayers haters? What is what do you do with people that are just kind of the contrarians and Instagram give us some tips for this because it comes up occasionally. And honestly, I'm an enneagram nine so it makes my skin rocker I want to peace and I want to let's talk about this. What's the best way? What advice do you give for people of just managing that aspect? Yeah, that's

a great question. I honestly actually think it's a bit of a badge of honor in a way because it means that you're showing up in your head. The POV, you know, it's like not vanilla, it's not watered down, you're showing up and you're saying the thing, there's something for someone to ingest and disagree with. So I would say that's kind of a pat on the back for that, you know, we're not for everybody, we're not showing up here to be likable. And the more that we can hone in on, you know, our specific message in our movement, you know, the more potent our messaging is going to be. But on the flip side, there's going to be something for people that disagree with. I mean, I think that you also have to remember that I mean, it's your house, like I was saying before, so you get to decide, you know, who can come in who cannot, if somebody is really being disrespectful, you can choose to block me, whatever it is them. But I think that also just, you know, from a take a step back standpoint, you have to remember that a lot of times this stuff is not personal, you might be catching somebody on a bad day, you they might be just projecting something that has nothing to do with you on to you know, disagreeing, like whatever that is, I generally find that the more ire there is, and somebody responds, the more I'm like, this probably actually has nothing to do with me, this is just like a vessel for some sort of like, resentment or some sort of thing that's bubbling to come out. So I think that you know, you can welcome in discourse and conversation and you can respond to a comment, and you can say, I'd love to learn more about your POV, let's talk about this in the DMS and direct messages, which are really powerful for connecting with people. But I think you also have to remember that, you know, we're all humans, we're all in our own experience. And so often, if somebody is showing up with, you know, hell and brimstone, I really don't think it has anything to do with you.

Can I ask a question here, you know, as I'm thinking about even a tiny nonprofit or person who's in an organization, and they're wearing all the hats, where would be a place that you would recommend they start if they're going to really either start an Instagram or kind of get it up into the modern era? What would be one or two good things that they could do to start moving in this sort of direction of building brands and having an authentic voice?

Yeah, I think it really starts with honing in on the crux of your messaging. So really thinking about defining like, what's your movement? What's your manifesto? What is the POV you're bringing to it that only you can bring? That's kind of supplant, that's the wrong word that's supported by your lived experience, and what you're trying to do. And also going really deep on your audience and really getting a sense of not just their demographics, but there's good graphics, like who they are, what their desires are, like, what their dreams are, what keeps them up at night, really kind of feeling into your shared emotional, territory, stories that you might be sharing so that you can start to craft your messaging around that. I truly believe that is the starting point.

You've just given us so much practical guidance to just lean into Instagrams, I feel really excited to dive into it. You know, we talk about philanthropy, the power of philanthropy, I love that we've gotten to go on this sidetrack of Instagram today. But in your life, is there a story of where philanthropy has really I don't know, changed you or touched you in a certain way that really stuck with you?

Yeah, I mean, it's super interesting. And again, I'm like sensing just all of this integration here, or just integrating even during this conversation. But I think that what's so beautiful about philanthropy is it is this really lovely and expansive union of the individual and the collective too. And then how that comes together, and especially even how you see that, you know, with humans in a small community, and like the power and impact that can happen there. I remember one kind of instance of philanthropy that stands out in my mind. And also every day of every year, I'm always like, I need to be doing more. But a few years ago, I was volunteering in Brooklyn before I lived here at the Red Hook community farm just by myself, like on a whim because I was getting really into composting. And we were all there together. It was this gray, rainy day, this group of strangers, there's maybe seven or eight of us, and we have gloves on, we have galoshes on. And we were picking fruit stickers and live worms out of the garbage like out of all the compost, as they were tilling and turning over the piles as the process is happening. And so not only are we doing this very decidedly unglamorous work, but we're all just kind of chewing things over getting to know each other, like an incredibly disparate group of people. But it was just such a way of bringing people together and feeling very present in the moment, you know, with ourselves and with each other. And I think that that's really, really powerful,

making stinky compost together, getting our hands dirty. That

was the nourishing thing for us. sodhi. I mean, if you if Kara is like an amazing cook, and she has like a amazing blog, you should go check out but it's like you literally got your hands dirty to go in there and figure that out. That's an awesome story. So you know, we end all of our conversations with a one good thing. What would be your one good thing that you would offer to our audience today.

I think the one good thing is really realizing that you can actually have everything you want. And more truly, like there's no limits to what you do. You can dream up to what you can desire and what you can actually have like the or there's infinite abundance out there and I think that opening yourself up to the idea that it can be logical that it can come to you in ways that you can't even conceive of and you might not know the the how or the win but you can also say I want this thing and it's going to happen you know somehow some way even if you know my human brain can't figure out all of the details and control it right now that you can still put that desire out there and obviously you know co create and take aligned action to get there but just because you don't know how it's all going to work out doesn't mean it can't and to really allow yourself to think bigger and and expand more in June bigger

so Carolyn, how can our folks your friends connect with you? I mean, you've given us so much today but I know you show up online and serve in so many capacities Can you share some of those ways we can connect?

Yeah, thank you and oh my gosh again and connections a two way street you know, you're reaching out to me I want to talk to you guys to Instagram is probably my hub with no surprise there. I'm there almost every day not on the weekends and vacations boundaries. That's a whole other conversation. But um, send me a DM you know, send me a comment anything like I love to talk to you and like genuinely connect with people. And all of the information about you know, my coaching programs and what I do lips, their links to my website, and my blog as well. But I really am just excited to meet new people to genuinely feel your energy and to see if we can make magic happen together. There's so much

You're such a great digital marketer. And even if you're just curious about the things that we've talked about today, go follow Carol on Instagram because of course she does an amazing job with reels and stories. And the way she curates her content so it might just give you some ideas about how you could leverage those same tactics. So love this. You're an incredible human. I feel like we've learned so much from you. Thanks for giving us some of your time today.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much. This was true co creation you know, I feel like we're all just in the same place sharing together. And that is a beautiful thing. And I'm just happy to be here for you so much.

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