friends and enemies alike. I always crack myself up. It's nice to see everybody really like to scan through and say hi. See who's here. Welcome welcome. So this is our when i What is it Wednesday Thursday q&a thing we started this with COVID What is that three four years ago crazy and it just hasn't stopped. I keep trying to kill it. But this does seem to be one thing that defies impermanence. Just last week at all. Katie, you're back. Nice to see you. So glad I owe a big warm hug to you. Nice to see you. You've had quite an adventure. Wonderful. This is so great. So basically what we do here is I love it. I really do. Because people come and they send me questions and I get it, I get a chance to try to respond. You can also raise your hand with the reactions thing. Always a little better. Really. If you can do something live, there's some interaction. You can also put a question in the chat column, which would be great but we always start with just a few little so called housekeeping entities. I just wanted to put the link up to this happiness program. I this is this is actually a program I've been wanting to do for a really long time. It's actually based on an unpublished book, a part of it is my very first book that I wrote. I hate to say like three years ago, we'll call it out of what does it call out of silence on the mechanics of happiness. And so I wanted to really come back to some of those principles decades later, and expand on them with some of the more recent insights. And so this is a program that I put together that I had never presented before. The description and examination of happiness from Eastern or Western perspective, talking about colloquial conditional happiness, what actually constitutes that and then a much deeper look at it like unconditional happiness like really what is it and the relationship of spirituality to happiness because in a real way, spirituality, the practice of spiritual pursuits, is just the conscious, deliberate pursuit for happiness in an authentic way. Everything else is a substitute. So therefore, even our conventional drives for happiness, are fundamentally driven by spiritual principles. We just don't recognize them. So I'm super excited about that. In terms of upcoming events, oh, my gosh, we have so much happening. So I did the interview with John Dupree the integral recovery thing and integral approach to substance abuse and addiction. Two and a half hours with this guy, I actually thought he was really pretty darn cool. Next week, I'm interviewing Federico fat gene, courtesy of my friend. He may know he may not know he is my friend but on his friend, Bernardo kastrup, who I just adore this guy, right? And so if at Eco and I have had a little bit of exchange he was he presented this week at our little study group I do with a bunch of scientists and academics. This guy is amazing. And so he, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing here today. If it wasn't for him, he invented the microprocessor. This guy has a colossus on the world of computers. He invented the touchpad. I mean, this guy is a giant and he's he's in this kind of phase four of his life's kind of Sanyasi phase where he had this amazing as a hardcore materialist scientist, physicist. He had this amazing set of experiences two decades ago, non dual things that completely turned everything upside down. So now his big thing is the study of consciousness. He wrote this book called silicone which I don't have with me. He's not he's not his. His, like academic scientific papers are really not easy, heavy with math heavy with science, but as a person, he's a beautiful human being. So for that, he goes coming on. We'll do that next week. I also have finally get my dear friend and he has a dear friend, Bruce TIFF, who wrote already free Buddhism, the psychotherapy on the path of liberation or something like that. We're doing something I think and next week, he's amazing. I've got commitments from Robert Moss, who is a giant in the world of dreams. He's written like what 15 books on dreams. And I was introduced to him by my another real friend. Ryan Hurd who I interviewed him but we haven't posted it yet. That's coming up like today. So Robert moss is doing something with me. And literally, like half an hour ago I got a nice response from Frank White, because I had a hell of dinner with him last week. The guy, the astronaut who wrote the book, The Overview Effect, he's really big in the world of space. And so we're going to do a little riff on space principle relationship of outer space to inner space, and John because I'm not John Frank, because of his interview experience, is now also really big. He's really big into spirituality, mostly Zen Buddhism. And so we're going to be talking. We haven't said the date yet, but probably end of March. So there's all kinds of really cool things happening. In other programs blah, blah, you can read about it my main site we I got thing in Europe. I got things all over the place. I'm entering my active season. This is when I really start to get around a little bit. So let's say here's the big pause you want to go recording in progress. So here's here's, here's the questions. Oh, yes. Wait, I wanted to get one book
that was gonna read one thing from this book. So there's a bunch couple of ideas I can pick through rather quickly. From Rachel. Hi there. I was wondering if I'll be offering any dream yoga retreats. Yes, I'm doing one in Spain. Come join me in a place called hidden paradise. I'm also doing one in outside of aspen in the bay or retreat center. Also, are there any scout? Oh, yeah. So there's more techy things, scholarships, volunteers. You know. I will respond to you directly behind the scenes because I don't have control over this sort of thing. If I don't host the events myself. So Rachel, I will ping you a direct response to see if I can help you with that. But instances where I'm not hosting an event, I don't have a ton of control over those. I'm a guest, but let me see what I can do for it. Okay, from Jimbo. When starting out on your dream yoga journey, is it okay to use the beginning stages of your journey to use lucid dreaming to pursue your desires and an ethical way of course, and work through your desire systems before diving deeper into the more spiritual transformative work? Is this a legitimate way to start your dream yoga practice? So should you focus just on the spiritual stuff from the beginning? It's a good question, Jim. Jimbo. Yeah, so you can totally do that. But that's not Dream Yoga. That's lucid dreaming. And again, there's nothing wrong with lucid dreaming. But this is one of the things that distinguishes lucid dreaming from Dream Yoga and if you if you are familiar with my listing of the nine stages of Dream Yoga, stage one is in fact just this, do something fun. And I think this is actually there's nothing inherently wrong with this. I often do this like before I go to work, so to speak in the dream I wake up and because I love to fly so much I love I love flying in my dreams. It's like this is the coolest thing. And so I will often just go for a little Joyride, you know, zipping around, flying through the Grand Canyon died bombing, scaring people on the streets kind of stuff. There's nothing wrong with that. But here's the deal. It's not going to wake you up. It's just entertainment. But if you're if you're confined, if you're a prisoner if you're a paraplegic, if you're literally handicapped in that regard. This type of escape is actually a very powerful thing and it should not be dismissed. I'm not dissing it at all. It has a place but it's not Dream Yoga. But the thing to understand here, Jimbo, is that wherever intention is involved, even at the level of a lucid dream, if it's not lucid, it doesn't matter. That's just the exhaustion of karma. You're not creating karma. You're exhausting it. But if you're in a lucid dream and intention is involved, karma is created. And so therefore, when you insert it in an ethical way, that's the really important thing. You know, safe, clean, fun, whatever, with with relatively pure intentions. I mean, if you go in and you're playing some wild video, you know, like, a video game, just crazy, cognitive mental game. You know, that's not the best thing. But if you're going to have some fun, you want to enjoy it. That's fine. The reason I say this is because you want to maintain a balance with your dream yoga curricula. It is a Yoga it is a practice it does take some effort. But if you try too hard, then you're going to lose the inspiration to do it. So having a little bit of fun on the front end. I do this a lot. Really. I wake up in the dream. Oh, cool, lucid dream. I do my little die bomb thing. And then I go okay, okay. Now for that then I go to work. So doing that is totally okay. Yes, it's a legitimate way to start your dream yoga practice. Yes, but it's not official Dream Yoga. It's still lucid dreaming, but that's cool. Should you focus just on the spiritual stuff? Not necessarily. I mean, if you're inspired, sure. It's great. But you know, not too tight, not too loose. Otherwise, this stuff is just like, I don't want to do this stuff. It's too much work. So have fun with it. Right? If you really enjoy and have fun, it's a cool thing. Okay. All right. In his book, The Tibetan Yogi's have dreamless sleep. This is from Marion as a one year revenue, who I interviewed back in February, January what a wonderful man. podcast is on edge of mind. He's up there. Also nightclub turns. He talks about some Saric dreams as well as dreams of clarity and their origins. Yes, he does. He also talks about dreams of clear light. So exotic dreams I get all the time. Yes, we all do. All our dreams are I'm gonna run commentary as we go through these samsara dreams are the default dream. That's just the residue of of all our samsaric thinking and patterns and whatnot. So regular standard dreams are some Slavic dreams. Can you expand on the difference? The differences between dreams of clarity and samsara dreams? Yes, I can. So again, just what I said samsara dreams are kind of like what they sound it's just your samsaric habitual patterns what are called Buck chalk Layton tendencies, just expressing themselves in dreams of clarity are they're still samsaric dreams dreams of clarity are still samsaric dreams, but they're really good ones. They're they they're they're borderline, that liminal type of dream. And met now the dreams are filled with more positive karmic traces, positive box chalk, dreams of teachers, dreams of teachings, that kind of stuff. And you will notice as you progress on your dream yoga path, because Dream Yoga was the moniker the measure of the path dreams will tell you where you are. Basically, the more you do the stuff the less samsaric dreams you have. The more dreams of clarity you have. You have less and less violent dreams bad dreams, nightmares, eventually nightmares. Stop all the bad stuff stops. That's a that's an indicator sign that your unconscious mind is being purified. You'll have more dreams of teachers more dreams of the Dharma more good dreams, more uplifted dreams. Those are dreams of clarity. Now the one dream just you don't mention I just mentioned it parenthetically, are what are called dreams of clear light. These are the highest level of dreams period until all dreaming stops at a certain point. When the unconscious mind is completely empty and exhausted the eighth consciousness when that's empty dreams stop. Dreams. That point you're not dreaming. Or another way to say it. Everything is seemed to be a dream. That's the same thing. This male scene is seen as a dream manifestation of mine. But dreams of clear light dreams are the highest form of Dream, which is where the dream is immediately mixed with the clear light. Those of you who know these terms, this is the union of generation and completion stage practice. And so for those of you who do that level of tantric practice, you can measure that in your dream you start having a dream that is infused with a clear light at its outset. That's the very highest type of dream. Can you expand on the differences? I think I just tried excuse me, in particular with examples of dreams that arise from transpersonal karmic traces. Well, it depends on how you define transpersonal Miriam, sometimes transpersonal I think you're talking about individuated transpersonal karmic traces which are transpersonal karmic traces coming from within you. That would be a dream of clarity, or a clear like dream. If you're talking about trans personal and this is a multi Vaillant term is that which is beyond your persona, not just within you but actually but beyond your mindstream altogether, your mental event horizon. In other words, mind at large out there. If you're talking about those kinds of transpersonal karmic traces, that's a whole different deal. Because first of all, at that point, it's no longer your karmic trace. It's collective karma. So I don't think you're talking about that. I think you're talking about individual individual individuated personal transpersonal karmic traces, and those are very much connected with the two types of dreams that you you mentioned dreams of clarity, those come from those transpersonal and then the dreams of clear light also come from those. Okay? And if you want clarity on any of these, don't be shy to come on. We can do a little back and forth. Okay. Oh, another easy one from Gerald. I love it. Dr. H. Will you be offering a week long graceful exit entry death dying series of dollar Mountain Center in August? Yes, it should be up there. If it isn't. We have to let them know the sun's down the luminous part of Dynamo top part two. You can come as a standalone. You don't have to have the prerequisite prerequisites. But it does help. So yes, Gerald. What are the dates? I can give you those dates. It should be on their website. We just put that up I sent them the stuff like last week August 18 to the 25th Be there or be very square. And I do an annual week long thing there every year and I just love it. Okay, from some way.
Okay, number 123 questions here concerning concern regarding dream states. And the idea of the Bardo states between states. Okay. Bob Thurman. spoke about how there are entities that experience meditators sometimes have feed on them. Okay, if I understand that properly, Bob is talking about how it is that external seemingly malevolent agencies can be parasitical towards you. Okay, and then the shaman right Alberto Vito Villoldo Villoldo and never know if I pronounce his name properly described a baby that had these things tormenting yet. Okay, how would he know that? I'm not questioning Yeah, but it's like a Z reading his baby's mind I mean the debate he communicate this so any yeah open question and I don't know. He called any animal spirits to help the baby. Okay, cool. I concern that is is that in different states? How do I deal with things that I am not aware of? Usually I am exhausted and don't remember much. Okay. Well, if I understand this properly, this seems to be a question about seemingly malevolent entities, agencies and so called forces affecting you and influencing. How do you deal with that? Well, it depends on your relationship to these things. I talk a little bit about this in my interview with 10s on one gal Rinpoche so listen to that podcast on night club and edge of mind. I actually pressed him on this I came back two or three times to say, can you answer these sorts of things? So it really depends on on who you are and what you believe. My teacher, Kimber MPJ, let me just say this mighty cheeky teacher Campbell Rinpoche says that if you don't really believe in these things, they don't have that much impact on you. That's one version. I heard tenza Wrong. Obj something say something a little bit different that even if you don't believe in them, they can affect you. So I let you decide which one is right. However, what you can do here is you can create protection circles, so for sure. Depending on what tradition you're in the shamans. I guess, Umberto was using some kind of animal spirits to help the baby that's really really awesome. The Buddhist tradition has protected principle you can create a mandala again, depends it depends on who you are and what your background is. So I don't know what your tradition is. If you have a relationship to higher forces benevolent forces in your tradition, you can call upon them, like spirit guides and angels and that sort of thing. You can call on them to protect you as you sleep and dream. If you are connected with Tibetan Buddhism, you can invoke literally a protection circle protection mandola you can do liturgical recitations for protectors. I generally don't do these in a public setting because not everybody that comes to my gig is Buddhist, let alone Tibetan Buddhist. And it seems a little bit to me like I'm jamming something down their throat it may not speak to them. I am a student of these traditions I have experienced these positive and sometimes negative agents. So I do believe in them, because I've seen them. And so therefore I invoke the protection properties that I have at my disposal to my condition. So how do you deal with them? It depends on you and depends on your tradition, without having some back and forth. I'm not going to kind of suggest or impose the things that I do they work for me, they may not work for you. Here's one thing to really keep in mind, however, and this is the ultimate protection. This is really important. Everything I just said these are relative means I'm not dismissing them. But what is the ultimate protection as they say in the low Jiang mind training, slogans, emptiness, shunyata emptiness, nothing has the power to adversely affect you unless you reify that entity, emptiness cannot harm emptiness. So this may not mean anything to you. But if you are a Buddhist and you want the ultimate protection work with the principles of de reification with emptiness, nothing can affect you that literally nothing has the power to adversely affect you unless you reify it. That's the ultimate protection. Number two second question from her. I wake up in the middle of the night into a physical reality. Okay, let me stop you right there. I understand what you're saying but it's not a physical reality. You wake up from the dream into this reality this parenthetically. This is not your question, but I can never pass up an opportunity to challenge this. There is no physical reality. There just isn't. Physical reality is just I love the way Bernardo talks about this physical reality is just the dashboard on the panel of your perception. There is no physical reality physical reality is an imputation physicality is an inference. There is no physical reality. It's all a dream. But I get what you're saying. You wake up in the middle of the night out of your dream into what you think is physical reality. Okay? I do that a great deal and I paint. Oh, that's awesome. Cool. Good for you. This seems to be more like a statement than a question which is great. I rarely remember my dreams. Well, you can change that. It's actually with some cultivation with the aspiration to recall dreams, you can absolutely positively increase your capacity to remember dreams. So just because you don't remember them now, you are having these dreams, five dream cycles four to five a night whether you know it or not. And you can absolutely positively increase your capacity to remember so that's more a statement than a question I guess. Number three is sometimes what's happening in a dream spills over into the physical space. Of course it does because it's not physical. That's why it's spilling over. Right? It's just one manifestation of mind in the dream iteration, basically then extending into the waking iteration. This happens all the time. I have had countless dreams where I wake up in the middle of the night, particular dream pattern is taking place. I wake up and then exact it's this bizarre is can be the exact same sort of things actually happening. Like it I mean, it's just out there kind of stuff. So the fact that this spills over into physical space, this is no surprise whatsoever. It has to do with the porosity and the permeability of your mind. And the bleed through that takes place when the boundaries between these seemingly disparate states of consciousness are dissolved. They're all arbitrary. They're all arbitrary boundaries. There are no fundamental boundaries. These are all creations. These boundaries are creations of our limitations, to experience all these states with full lucidity. So what you're talking about here, the drain spills as a nice phrase is completely common with these sorts of things. Again, it's that spilling over into physical space it's just filling up spilling over into another space in my space, another state of consciousness. What is going on? That's what's going on. This stuff happens all the time. Because it's just mind your mind consciousness. Basically. You can't even say traversing, because that seems to apply that there's a person traversing through the stage of consciousness there isn't. There's just this mind that colors itself in the waking, dreaming and deep dreamless state. So if you understand that principle, there is no one going through the sleeping dreaming waking journey that implies that there's an entity doing it there isn't. There's the appearance of that, but that's not what's happening. There's just mind basically, opening, contracting, opening and contracting, creating these different dimensions of consciousness. Okay, hope that helps. Ah, all righty, okay. So here's here's a couple of enemies real quick. I just want Kim. Hi, Andrew, what is that queasy, striving feeling that saturates dreams? I'm not sure. But I have an idea. Based on the rest of your question. These these types of questions camera are a little bit difficult for me to answer with any authority because I might enter in your mind space. I don't know what that queasy stripy feeling is that saturates your dreams? But let me read the rest of your question. And then I do have an idea of what might be going on. Based on your experience. It's not specific imagery, objects or phenomena a nightmare just an existential dread. That under underlies the dream narrative, that's the key statement to me. More on that in a second. This dream nausea, dread. An interesting term is Dream nausea. I like that seems to be more explicit now that I am using induction techniques and I almost feel like I can engage with it more directly. Not lucid yet, but more able to identify this unseen yucky feeling. Okay. And this is where I think I can answer your question. Your last line really helps me I've been practicing adrionna Studying the Bardo teachings for many years and just started a Dream Yoga practice. That's what helps me here. Based on your experience, can I think again, I'll read a little supporting quote that could explain what's going on here. My guess and again, so hard for me to say with any authority, right? I mean, what do I know? But to me, it sounds like what you're experiencing is the nausea.
The Dread, I believe is is an experience of an incipient taste of emptiness. In other words, what I playfully call nausea, not not again, I love words I love to play with them not motion sickness but notion sickness, notion sickness. The notion that you don't exist. And so when you're in as a practitioner, and this is why I think this could be what's happening when you're in the dream arena. This is a more de reified environment. The Avatar, the dream avatar doesn't have nearly the reified status that it does in the waking state. And so you're basically coming apart. I think that's what's creating this notion sickness. There's not yet there's like, Hey, man, I don't exist here. Right. And so let me see if I can pull this up. This quotes Hold on. Pull this up on my phone. This is interesting timing because this quote came in Yeah, here it is. I went over your question last night. And the minute I got off your question, the nightclub we have this wisdom. What is it called whispers of wisdom that comes up every day. In a synchronicity was kind of cool. So this is exactly what I read in my inbox because I get these whispers every day as well. Even though I write them I forget them. And this is what it says is like zip, the soul from Steve Hodge. This is his introduction and commentary, I think, to his translation of the Tibetan Book of the Dead or his version of it, this is good. our so called self the ego is a parasitical illusion without any substance substantial existence, something that has been constructed as a defense mechanism to deal with the experience of impermanence as it strives to create itself out of empty space and become solid. The ego self always feels paranoid, that it will be discovered for what it is a hollow illusion. I talked about synchronicity I mean that's amazing. There's your answer. Right. That's it. So if you get the night club quotes, quote from yesterday, answers your question. Basically, you're discovering the parasitical illusion of the self sense that it's just this there's nothing there. And that's what gives you the queasy feeling. Otherwise, the experience would be just what it is experience of dissolution. So I think next time you have this experience, can what you can try to do this is high. Okay, how do I work with this? Here's what I recommend. When you experience your dreams without reference, your as your Buddhist practitioner to Lopez beautiful statements, when the mind is free of reference point, this is Maha Mudra. The nature of mind when one has become accustomed to this familiar with it, enlightenment, the unsurpassable has been achieved. So basically, when you have the experience next time, don't reference it. Don't contract. Because the nausea I guarantee you this, the nausea is created. The Dread is created by reference to self. That's what creates the dread. If you just have the experience without the reference, there's no dread. There's just the experience. I promise you that so that's the way I would work with this yucky feeling. The yucky feeling is only yucky from the point of view ego because ego is basically starting to attend its own funeral so to speak, which you can't do, and that creates this kind of yucky feeling because it's dying. It's being seen through it. It can't die. Because it doesn't exist. It's simply being dissolved in the same sort of, so I think that's what's going on. That makes sense to me. Okay. Oh, this one's a little bit longer. This one's this one's a little bit. This is a little bit intense. A little bit beautiful. And I'll keep it anonymous, just in case you want me to this was powerful. So I'm currently in the midst of what feels like a ripe period with opportunity for transformation and seeking guidance. My two greatest fears since childhood have been death and child birth. Over a period of years, I worked with my fear of death until eventually I had convinced myself that I would go gentle into that good night. That's a beautiful reference to Dylan Thomas's famous poem rage rage against the dying of the light right? Do not go gentle into that good night. Dylan Thomas is totally wrong. Back to you. Last year after realizing I could not avoid facing my other fear great fear any longer became pregnant since the last trimester of my pregnancy. I have been waking in the night with a strong sense of existential anxiety when this happens I feel panicked. And unable to tolerate the darkness of the room. It is now clear that my fear of death never left but went underground. Yeah, that's usually what happens. So good insight for you. Based just gets buried out of sight is not out of mind. Out of Sight is deep into the unconscious mind is going to percolate there until related to the question above, you transcend the very sense of self that creates a sense of fear to begin with. So good for you for seeing that you can't solve a problem you don't know you have. And you're not alone. Everybody has this dread until they wake up. I recently gave birth to my daughter after a difficult labor labor that ended in a C section for me and in ICU. For me, while recovering in the hospital, I was diagnosed with pulmonary embolism. Yeah, that's not a non non trivial big deal. The very thing that killed my paternal grandmother not long after returning home I was readmitted to the hospital. When a new PE was found pulmonary embolism in spite of my being on a heavy dose of magic wagons my little hospital I experienced frequent Hypnic jerks myoclonic jerk steering I would die if I were to fall asleep. Let me let me just say something about a couple of things as I go along because otherwise this is somewhat long and I'll lose a track and have to repeat it. So in relation to this, the Hypnic jerks are also called myoclonic jerks are extraordinarily common when you're going through the hypnagogic liminal phase going from waking to dream and sleep you're you're literally falling apart, you're coming undone. And so very often when people have these Hypnic jerks we've all had them. Part of it is exactly what you're saying feeling that you are you would die if you were to fall asleep. Well on one level you do die. Your ego dies, for sure. And that ultimate death the provisional death entry level of death takes place on the dream can also connect it to the earlier question. The full death egolessness takes place in deep dreamless sleep which is why we don't experience it. It's too scary, right? It's too scary for the ego to experience deep dreamless sleep so it doesn't experience it blacks out. It's still there. Phenomenal consciousness is still there, but metacognition of that is not so what you're saying here is really common and the good news here for both of these. It denotes a really sensitive mind a really sensitive experiencer someone who can now see the fear that's still there. Not easy, but really good. Now you can work with it. Someone who recognizes this fear of falling asleep and dying, that's also really good. Because you know, you're being aware of what's actually taking place when you fall asleep, you're actually falling into a microcosmic death you are and sometimes the panic that ensues, you know, you feel that dissolution you're falling. Literally Hindus are falling you're falling apart. What happens is what's the jerk it's a contraction. It's panic is contraction. What does that contraction do? contraction is ego is egos effective response fear, to its dissolution. So that's what creates the contraction. The fear is your falling apart. And your contraction actually reinstates the very sense of self. It's dissolving. That's why you contract. That's why you have the hypnic jerk, and fundamentally whether we know it or not, in this playful sense, we're all jerks. We all live above this vibration, this frequency of this contraction. You're just simply now starting to see it. This contraction is happening all the time. I'm writing two books on it. It's such a big deal topic. This contraction is happening all the time. Even now as we speak. If you see yourself as existing, if you see me separate from you, you're contracting. So what you're experiencing here is totally connected to this and honestly, this is good news. Your story starting to see really, you know, it's not easy. It's uncomfortable from again, the perspective of ego is only ego that creates the fear. It's on the ego that creates the sense of unease. Do with the experience, relax into it. There's part of you that can't dive in there. is a part of you, that is indestructible, they cannot die. That's what you want to discover. So then when you go through these phases is like a mess like no big deal. Then it becomes really interesting. It's like wow, here I am falling apart again. How cool. Here I am coming back into form again in the morning. I'll cool if I can do a lucidly, right. So I guess what I'm saying here, obstacle into opportunity, the fear is a good sign. Having this experience is a good sign, if you relate to it properly, and maybe that's what I'm helping you with here. Okay, back to you. Well, the past six weeks have shown me are the persistence of my fear of death. Yes, everybody. If they don't have that they are denying it until they're awake. And my strong attachment to my baby. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is where it really gets tender and difficult for me to say much about but I'll try
my love for her as a source of not only incredible joy, but also incredible sorrow. Because I know one day will come to an end picture dying now. Picturing dying now I think I would go kicking and screaming. Well, again, thank you for being so honest. Anybody would in that in that situation. So this is really tricky, right? Because first of all, I'm not a therapist. You're talking about really beautiful, profound things. And here I am, in a public setting, throwing out sound bites for something that's really quite deep and profound. So please accept my apology in advance. This is something that would warrant a really much more in depth conversation and dialogue instead of me just trying to spit out some stuff. But with the understanding the parameters, the limitations, I can say a couple of things here. Maybe attachment, we are attached to everything. It just it just becomes more painful. It's, you know, exquisitely painful when it comes to family members and the intimates around us and I'm only going to tell you what my teachers have told me because I don't want to be glib, facile and dismissive of the the elegance of beauty, the sensitivity and the profundity of what you're sharing and you're experiencing. My teacher Khenpo Rinpoche would always tell us about the charter of love without attachment. Love without attachment, that's unconditional love. And for most people that's like that. That's like an oxymoron. I don't even know what that means. Maybe we can simply use that as an aspiration. The fact that again, this is so beautiful about what you're saying. I'm trying to see all the wonderful lights and what you're saying. The fact that you can actually discern this is really beautiful. And the attachment is I mean, we're attached everything that's why it hurts when something is taken away from us. That's why it hurts when some someone dies. I mean, really, it again, nobody's died yet here so I can say this. It may seem like cold and clinical and whatnot, but see if it's true. kick the tires, see if it's true. Grief is a form of withdrawal. And that doesn't mean we shouldn't grieve mo it's completely appropriate response. But grief is a form of withdrawal of our attachments. Almost our addiction to attachment. And so, you know, I'm in no position to say like what you should do here, I can only tell you that you can use these really powerful experiences, to inspire profound investigations to look properly or clearly at what's really important for you to look at the power to see if it's true. How attached we are to things. See if you can have an open heart, love without attachment. Again, easier said than done. But also noticing what you're saying here that in one level. This is a very powerful expression of the four reminders that everything is impermanent. This is unknowable truth. Everything that comes into form will disappear. That includes us, that includes your baby that includes everything. Now, that doesn't mean we have to then live in this kind of pathological paranoia. No. What it means is we can therefore use this impermanence to actually reframe our relationship with others and energize it. If you hold everything in the important in the embrace of impermanence and death, it ironically in beautifully makes things more valuable, more precious, more, more purposeful. It's only when we take things for granted. Oh, they're gonna be around forever whatever that we that we live a kind of pilot light level existence. And so this is what you say here. My love for her is a source of not only incredible joy but incredible sorrow. Will Trump Rinpoche said very beautifully the the idea this is such a beautiful cryptic statement that he was a genius this guy I mean, even genius is a pejorative for him. He said the ideal emotion is sad joy. Well, what an amazing thing to say. The ideal emotion is sad, Joy. Sad root means satisfied fullness. It's like the sad joy you feel with incredible beautiful, incredibly beautiful music or art or poetry. You feel like laughing and crying sad joy at the same time. So what you're what you're sharing here is really the ideally motion disability to like hold these two spaces in your own heart and mind. And again, if you if you hold her with with the embraces, like, this is wonderful line, we just do this demo. And Chai I think it was so we hold up this glass. I wasn't there but I read it. He's holding up this class into teaching. And he does kind of the following riff. He says look at this glass. He goes this glass is amazing. It holds water. When I ping it, it's sayings. There's all these amazing things. But one day, I'm going to knock it off the shelf and it's going to break. And then he goes into this beautiful riff about my how my understanding of the impermanence of this glass makes me appreciate the glass all the more. And so I read about this quite a bit in the first part of my book preparing to die using the kind of the mechanism or the medium or the for reminders, contemplating the fragility, the impermanence of life, not in a pathological way, but actually as a way to saturate and imbue our life with increased sensitivity, joy and appreciation. So look at the positives here. It will make you appreciate your daughter more it will make you appreciate others more but then the trick is and again, the stickiness. Notice how often we get sticky we grasp and the minute we grasp if we reify that grasping this attachment. Grasping is active attachment is passive. Attachment is reified grasping. So again, I don't want to get too clinical. This is a really delicate thing. I'm doing my best with a really rich question. Instead of comments. I hope this is helpful. What simple practices can I do on a daily ongoing basis alongside the demands of a new baby to ease my fear of death? And to learn to love my daughter with less clinging I mean, this is so beautiful. Well, in addition to what I said, maybe consider doing the four reminders on a regular basis. Those are really really helpful to ease your fear of death for you. This is a really beautiful, big question. This is what the entire corpus of Bardo teachings are all about all about, you know, to discover. This is the summit statement to discover that which cannot die because it was never born. Let me say that again. To discover that which cannot die, because it was never born. So the way to work with the fear of death is use your fear of death to propel you forward to the truth. Milarepa right. In horror of death is amazing man who killed 37 people and he realized that you know, the deep trouble he was in he said in horror of death I took to the mountains, contemplating again and again on the uncertainty in the hour of death. I captured the fortress of the deathless unending nature of mind. Thus all fear of death is over and done with wholesome fear. Use your fear to propel you to the truth. And therefore if you can discover literally that you're not this outer body, you're temporarily wearing this costume. Your baby is temporarily wearing that particular costume. That costume will be dropped at the end of life. There are deeper dimensions of your being that that are naked in a certain sense. They actually talked about naked awareness that don't enter the world of space and time. This is the part of you that that won't die. This is the inner part of your baby that will not die. And so this is where deep spiritual practice will take you and it leaves leaves you with this indestructible joy of the appreciation of life and also tremendous ease and confidence. Right. So this is basically your question is all about why should I study the Bardo literature? Why should I study Bardo teachings? Because of questions like this beautiful deep stuff? I hope what I shared is of some benefit, not easy to shrink wrap these things Okay, so a couple more and then we'll open it up for people here. Okay, yeah, so this is another this is a good one, Matt. I'll see if I can find the quote to support this. In terms of phenomenology, which is basically study of experience are there any explanations for the difference between the dream state and the waking state? This is a there's a lot of questions here. So I'll answer them as I go along. Yes, there's a ton. In fact, is is why I wrote this entire book right here. The second book of my dream trilogy, which we have on the nightclub site, we spent, I don't know 100 hours going through this book line by line. This entire book was written to answer this question and so if I can find it, I will find you several supporting quotes that really riff on this are there any explanations? Yes, there's a ton of explanations. I'll see if I can pull up a couple quotes. Why is the dreaming state private and intermittent while the waking state seems to be shared with others and consistent Well, the dreaming state is private and intermittent. Only because we exclusively identify with the waking state and we tend to dismiss the dream state. So this kind of wakes up centricity, the supremacy ontological supremacy that takes place on the waking state, that therefore then imbues projects onto the dreaming state. This kind of private intermittent qualities it's, it's intermittent because the mind hasn't become stable enough to see like I mentioned earlier, there when the mind is completely awake. And I'm not being metaphorical here. This is literal. There's no difference in the mind of an awakened one between being awake, asleep dreaming, no difference.
In fact, what Wait, let me see if I can. Let me see if I can remember the scope. This is from Ramana Maharshi from Advaita Vedanta tradition, the sage dreams, but he knows that to be a dream, the same way he knows the waking state to be a dream. Established in the state of supreme reality, the state the sage detachably witnesses the other three states waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep as pictures superimposed onto it. For the sage all three states are equally unreal. Most people are unable to comprehend this, because for them, the standard of reality is the waking state. Where as for the sage, the standard is reality itself. What an amazing statement. That's it. From the perspective of Advaita Vedanta when you're established in the state of supreme reality and in Buddhist languaging, rigpa Dharmakaya Dharma doubt to clear like mine, from their perspective, just like like Ramana Ramana Maharshi is saying from that perspective, all other states are seeing just as that there are states that come and go, no more real or unreal than any other. And that's the journey of awakening to differentiate from di to let go of identification with any of those street states. Because if it's a state, by definition, it's impermanent. It's not who you are, it's not going to last. You want to drop below that into this fundamental state, in which everything appears to be a dream, or manifestation of mine. These two aspects of the waking state which differentiate it from the dreaming state, oh wait, while the other while the waking state seems to be shared with others and is consistent Well, again, it seems to be that way this waking state isn't consistent. That's why I wrote his bloody books, partially part three on the science. This waking state is reified and frozen. It's an imputation or projection that consistency the stability is not inherent in the fabric of reality. Reality when it's seen properly is pixelated pointillistic empty, fluid dream like every scientist will tell you this quantum physicist, every perceptual cognitive scientists will tell you this. It's just everything is just fleeting floating dream light. We're the ones that freeze it into concrete and steel. So the consistency you talk about is not inherent in the reality that you're talking about. It's a projection of your internal states of consciousness while the seeming state of others, while the waking state seems to be shared with others, there is a collective karma thing going on. There's a certain conceptual reality that we share, but it's highly idiosyncratic. You think you're sharing the same thing? Well, why don't you get Rachel Maddow and Tucker Carlson together and see if they're seeing and sharing the same thing, right. Right. Same phenomenal appearance, radically different interpretation. So not only this is ontologically issue, this is culturally of issue this is where cultural wars come about. If you want to get even a further rendering of this, and I might have this book here because I just read this book. This is unbelievable book, a man's world. How animal senses reveal the hidden realms around us. This book will blow your mind. It's a book a marvelous book about all the different ways and animals or animal brothers and sisters and actually the realities. I mean, if we took a vote and took all the animal kingdoms and we had a vote, what is the reality what is reality you we would be voted out of office. In fact, that's actually what's happening. We are being voted out. Trust me on this, where we're going to be scraped off this effing planet right and the animals are going to survive hopefully we don't bloody eliminate them. Don't mean don't get me started on this crap. But this is a beautiful book, about the relativistic nature of perception and the realities that we enact. There is nothing solid, lasting, independent and out there. There's an imputation projection from our karmic histories, or biological histories. All these cool conspiratorial factors that come together to create this world of reality that we call reality. It's not a reality. It's a construct, talk to my dog, see what he thinks talk to my cat. Talk to a hummingbird talk to a lizard talk to a snake, talk to a fish. Ah, ah, this is a profound contemplation to study the nature of our animal brothers and sisters. And to see that what we call reality is just we take in less than one here's the math on this man. We take down less than one 10 trillion of the data that's flowing in around us think about that. It's like ridiculous and we think it's real No way. So anyway, this is a really good question. Okay. These two aspects of the waking state which differentiate it from the dreaming state seem to be the two main obstacles to seeing waking life is dream like that's a good point. I agree. Any deconstruction of these two aspects would be very helpful, dude. That's the whole bloody path, man. That's why I wrote this stupid book. Read it. Apologies if this question has already been asked and answered before No, no, no apology needed. But we did go through this whole book in what like 50 sessions at a time but let me see if I can find these two quotes here. Let me find these for you because and then I'll leave with these and we'll we'll get the live ones. Because this is a really great question. So let me see again, but hold on. Let me see if I can find this for you.
Now, here it is. 115 116. Yeah, check this out. This is such a great quote.
Okay, to two quotes just because this stuff is so rich. So the first one is from my teacher Khenpo Rinpoche, I'm going to read this in full because it's so rich. In response to the question, whether you're dreaming or not, like right now, how do you know you're not dreaming right now? Check this out. So this is from this guy's awake, right? So this is from an awakened master. Maybe you feel like saying because dreams are never so vivid as this colors are not so bright form sounds, smells, touches and tastes are not so clear and precise. However, someone else might disagree and say his dreams are even more vivid than his daytime experiences. Anybody that's had a hyper lucid dream you know this. You wake up from a hyper lucid dream. You This seems to be the dream. Does this then does this then make his dreams, waking experience and his waking dream? Does it mean if your faculties become impaired, so that you no longer experiencing so precisely and clearly that your life becomes a dream? You may laugh at the suggestion that you're dreaming now. You may think that if you were asleep and dreaming, everybody would stop interacting with you. They will tell you that when you woke up that you had been dreaming, so there is no way that one could confuse dreaming with waking. However, there is no inherent reason why you should not dream that people have woken you up and told you that you have just awaken from a dream. And here's the kicker. Finally, one has to admit that there is no fundamental characteristic of waking experience that clearly distinguishes that from dreaming. It's only a matter of degree and one's emotional predisposition. And I could do a whole rant here predisposition based on fear. If this world wasn't solid underneath your feet, you had freaking freak out. Right? So you freeze the world so that you feel comfortable in it. It is all psychological man. You believe you are a waste because you wants to feel secure and feel that the world is solid, real and supportive around you. If you were to seriously doubt you were awake, you would feel frightened and confused. The stability of the experience of being awake reassures you so you Believe in it and give it a reality that you do not afford to dreams if you're suffering the dream you're happy to let it go when it ends feeling reassured that it was not real anyway. If you suffer in what you call your waking life, you're getting emotionally involved in it and afraid of the status of absolute reality. I am not saying there's no difference at all between waking and dreaming. I am saying that the difference is not one of an essential difference in substance sub stance. And here's the last one, this one's even better, and then I'll open it up. This is from mahasiddha or Gamper. When I first read this, I was just floored the distinction that we make between waking appearances and dream appearances is purely based upon the fact that we do not wake up from our waking experiences. We center we practice Dream Yoga, an illusory form. Back to him the waking experience has been going on since a period of time that never began and is never really interrupted except by the additional overlay of dream time confusion. We know the dreams are not real because we wake up from them periodically and therefore we have contrast. This is the line. However, we have no such contrast by which to recognize the unreality of conventional appearances until you find a dimension of reality that is more real than this. The clear light mind until you discover a state of mind a sub stance to stand below sub stance more real than this, which we haven't discovered until we discover the clear light mind. We reify this reality we don't see it as a dream back to him. All the things that we experienced when we dream are obviously the appearance of habits that have somehow been placed in our minds. In turn we understand that the reactions we have to dream images such as pleasure and pain, and the various sensations that we have in dreams do not have the slightest true reality. Although these sensations and experiences are quite vivid when we wake from when we are awake from sleep, we understand that they are not real. And here it is. The only reason that we do not have the same understanding of conventional waking appearances is that we have not woken up from them yet. I mean, hello, this is the most profound quote. This summarizes the whole bloody journey of lucid dreaming Dream Yoga practice of illusory form. Okay. Wow, what is that a great questions everybody. Now I will turn sorry, took long but I don't want to rush through these questions. They're so good. I get speedy anyway, I just want to slow it down. So let me see if anything else buzzed in. Otherwise, I will turn to Chelsea Emily and then whatever came in in the chat. Column. Cool. Thanks for your patience. HLC HRC far away. Nice to see you.
Hi, good to see you too. Um, so a question and then I also just have a comment, kind of speaking to what you were talking about something you were talking about earlier. So my question has to do with open awareness. Okay, so I'm noticing the more I practice it. The more I notice myself wanting to go back into like shamatha almost like which is this really interesting thing and I'm, I'm wondering, do I become just more rigid? Where I just open, open open or do I let my because I've been playing with both. But I also know it's not a great idea to blend them necessarily. Okay. So what do you recommend?
Yeah, so let me ask you this Chelsea. So why, what is the kind of the emotional, what are the reasons that you want to pull away from open awareness and better shamatha? Like, what's what's driving that impetus?
I think it's, I think it might be just a pattern that's being created. Like, I did it a couple times. Maybe and I don't
know. What's the what's the end? What's the end?
Sorry, I really like back to shamatha like a couple of times, and then I think I like accidentally blended them. And now I'm trying to figure out how to just handle them is how it feels to me.
Okay, yeah, really good, really good stuff. So, you know, all the practices in Buddhism. Really all of them can basically be categorized as variations of shamatha or the passionate shamatha are the practices of of tranquility concentration consented to practices, the passionate of the practices of insight in the light and So, fundamentally, initially when we start we centrifuge out the practices of shamatha and be passionate. We practice shamatha first and we practice we're passionate. But the key is in your question is good one because the key fundamentally is the union of shamatha and the passionate. You want to be able to unify the two practices because they're basically what they're cultivating two aspects of the mind. It's not like to two completely disparate faculties of the mind, right? They're just different aspects of the mind. So we start with shamatha, because without that stability, it's also a little bit easier, though there will be no stability if you do you're creating an infrastructure, there's been no ground if you don't have quality, stability and shamatha and just read the works of BL and Wallace. You know, I mean, when I interviewed him three years ago, I mean, he had this guy is known as Mr. shamatha is fantastic, right? People tend to race over shamatha to get to the goodies, but passionate type practices and then they don't stick they're unstable. They don't work. So shamatha is super important. But shamatha in and of itself will not liberate shamatha sedates. It does not liberate so then eventually you want to initially because we don't have the capacity, we do practice the separately whether it's conventional, passionate or an open awareness, you know what's called a Mahathat passion. Are you working with a with the highest level of passion and before you get to nature, mind Maha Mudra Vipassana and So originally, we do it separately, because we just don't have that facility and ability but eventually, they start to merge and you can have, it's a little bit like, we've already had this experience of like, if you had to hold a teaspoon full of water, yeah, you're holding a teaspoon. You have a fill of water, and you had to walk across a room. Right. That's the union of Shama temper pasta, paying attention to the teaspoon that's spilling it to shamatha having the panoramic awareness that allows you to walk through the room is a passionate, you want to work with both. So I would just say just hang with it the fact that you've noticed that propensity is interesting play with it, don't beat yourself up. Sometimes the reason I asked you what is the like the reason you do that some people come back to shamatha because they find that passionate to open. There's no place for personal identity in that space. You're actually fundamentally whether you know it or not. Open awareness will take you apart shamoto will not. And so sometimes people retreat from open awareness because it's too open. It's just too it's too much because it's too little. And so then they retract back in the shower and they go, Oh, this is great. I feel comfortable. This is cool. I'm safe. I'm grounded. You know, if you want to chill out and the world's on fire, that's great. But this is why I'm writing this other book. Okay. I'm mindful my what right? endorsement and critique of the mindfulness revolution, mindfulness, the data does not liberate. So I would say just be aware of what you're doing. Play with it. Don't be too hard on yourself. Maybe work, you know, just continue to stretch your mind from the comfort zone or Samata into the pasta. Notice what it does without judgment, and then just be playful and just persistent and consistent and then you will notice eventually, because these are fundamentally inseparable qualities of the mind, you will notice that they will start to emerge, right? Something like that.
Yeah. Well, you said about the t shirt was really helpful because it does kind of feel like that. And because I was noticing it happening, I was becoming overly aware of it almost of like, Oh, I'm going back to shamatha I don't think I'm supposed to do that. But hearing that they'd get eventually gets to a place where every integrates back together and it kind of dances. Exactly.
Thank you. Oh, they're all manifestations of mine certain aspects that are being exercised separately. And then eventually they're brought into union. And here's the, here's the other kicker, and then we'll let it go. Yes, on one level, you're cultivating them here, but on another level, you're discovering them. These are inherent properties of the mind. So carry on. Okay,
nice to see you. Chelsea. You need to discover Can I also just share a comment as well? Yeah, totally far away. So that comment just as quick. So something that I've been practicing is just opening my heart compassion and doing that in dreams and lucid dreams. And so what you were speaking to about the dreamworld kind of filtering into the waking world, I've been experiencing that at night, because I've had different things keeping me up at night, whether it be people or construction or something last night, it was construction, and it was almost like I became lucid. In my, in my room, it felt a little bit like a false awakening. Then I recognized I was dreaming and then I went outside to the construction that was happening into the construction workers and I was just like, thank you thank you so much for that kind of that thin veil. Yeah, yeah, it's something I've noticed more and more as I practice the veils of
perception, the boundaries start to drop right. Me Ken Wilber second grade book, no boundary. The veils eventually start to break down and then fundamentally, you'll discover the veils between the unconscious and the conscious mind start to break down there is you know, there fundamentally is no unconscious mind. That's that's basically a facade. So all these veils get thinner, you start to see through yourself, you start to see through others, you start, you know, all the boundaries break down. So the fact that you're actually starting to see that is really a beautiful signs. Something's wrong. Something's happening. Cool. Thanks, dear. Hey, Emily, how are you?
I'm also having more of a technical question about meditation. So in Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche his book he he encourages you to meditate on an object and on the Tibetan A and so I got this pillow that has the letter on it. Yep. I'm trying to concentrate on it. And he says, It's hard you have, you know, takes a long time to work up to just staring at an object for a long time. So you know, but I'm working with it. And I'm just wondering what you think about this concentration practice and do you recommend it and is it something that'll help me with lucid dreaming?
Yes, yeah. That's really appreciate he's big on that and it's wonderful. It definitely has a place Emily again up every one of these practices. This is what's so great. Every one of these practices are skillful means designed to work with a particular bandwidth of our mind and heart. They all have a very powerful place. But they all are limited. No one practice alone will really do it. So therefore, the strength of the consultative Summit is this shamatha with form referential shamatha you're talking about. It's a wonderful way to tether anchored and tame the mind that eventually will be trained through shamatha. But, again, as powerful as that practice is I'm not dissing it at all. It is limited. It only takes you so far. But I think for many of us and to get us to where I do agree with Alan Wallace, for many of us in the West, we get it sometimes especially the country because the community people, they tend to hopscotch over the shamatha practices, and then they wonder why they don't have any stability then they don't then they wonder why their higher level practices aren't working. They just get too impatient and they want to rush to their esoteric, sexy types of practices. They just don't work. So I really appreciate the kind of infrastructure things that turns out Rinpoche does and others. It absolutely positively has a place but always remember that those those types of consecutive practices, they only go so far, and then eventually that you do have to mature. Some teachers will say that if you do shamatha purely it will naturally spontaneously morph into Vipassana. I think theoretically, that's could be I haven't seen that in my experience as a meditation instructor. People can just get stuck in these giant states and these God realms, and they're really delicious. They're the you know, these Samadhi states are really juicy. They're really sexy meditation states of mind. But this is what the Buddha exhausted when he studied with all the Brahma, Hindu teachings of his of his era. He mastered all absorption states. And then he realized close but no cigar. So this is a massive you go through the nine stages of shamatha. And this is a massive teaching that you should read. There's a number of books on this topic. I think Alan Wallace is the intention revolution. I think. He goes through the nine stages, turning your Mind into An Ally is another book. It's helpful to understand the nine stages of shamatha it's really helpful to bring a level of articulation to the other otherwise Willie nature of our mind. But always realize that these the best thing they'll give you the very best of samsara. These states will bring you into the God Realm. So bringing with it the jhanas states, the absorption states and then you will be reborn as a god but that's just that's the penthouse and samsara man. It's not nirvana. It's not a pure land. It's a High God Realm. And this is this is I think, you know, if you're in the interesting kind of conversation slash debate with the Tera Vaada tradition, which I'm always happy to engage in So again, these these practices are beautiful, they're genius. They have their place, but in the integral spirit, it's not enough. Critical, right? necessary but not sufficient. Use it in that regard. Train your mind. Again, if you're involved with Tenzin Rinpoche, this guy's a rock star. So if you're doing his stuff, man just do it, do what he says, because then he will do a conveyor belt approach he will invite you into these other so called hire practices, which transcend but include shamatha
Okay, thank you
You're welcome. Okay, Kathy, wake up.
Oh, no, I'm kind of meditating on it. No, I asked you what's the difference between out of body astral projection and dream body? Lucid dreaming?
Yeah, that question came in somewhere. It wasn't on this list. Yeah, yeah. So good question. So it depends on how you define these terms. Yeah, these are really good questions. There's when people talk about astral body, solid body dream body, its relationship. If you're Buddhist assembled mkhaya. One has to be really careful and really precise about what exactly are you referring to and what are you talking about? Because these are all phenomenal bodies. Within the bandwidth of Lunchables called the inner court. Within Tibetan Buddhism, it's called the sub Olga kya, which is this vast intermediate display of subtle body. So basically, what you're talking about here are all the variations of the subtle body there isn't just one subtle body. There's a whole bandwidth of these subtle bodies. And so the Buddhist tradition doesn't really talk that it doesn't use things like astral body, Astral projection, that's not as nomenclature. But I think if you were really to sit down and be very specific, and this is what I love about translators that are so careful with these things, you could definitely start to see these overlaps. So let me pause for a second. Maybe you can rephrase your question or even just ask it again, because this is such a big topic. I want to make sure I'm hitting your sweet spot.
Well, I don't actually feel like I have astral projection experience, but I've been really interested. And I'm taking lesson from people that I really do believe they have the experience. And so it would be like, you know, they literally there's like an astral body. They call it astral body, whatever you want to call it. That gets that leaves the physical body and it doesn't say in the astral reality. And, and obviously, there's a difference in time perception. The so I was asking this man, I'm like, Well, do you think it's different from dream body dream? And he thinks it is. But we didn't get.
There's ways to test that. There's ways to test that. Let me refer you to a couple of very elegant, sophisticated sources here. The best one, I think is Evan Thompson's masterpiece of a book waking, dreaming being. Read this book self unconsciousness in neuroscience, meditation and philosophy. This is an incredible book. And in this book, Evan devotes at least one chapter to the whole outer body thing. And in a really elegant, sophisticated way, which makes so much sense to me because he's so smart. Most out of body experiences are actually altered embodied experiences. And so it's basically it's an issue of altered environment, you can induce out of body experiences using haptic VRI. There's all kinds of ways you can do this without even entering into the dream state. There's also a way to test whether you're having a true astral OBE or a hybrid lucid dream most of these experiences when I sit down and I talk to people, and again, I can't say with total authority, I can only tell you my experience. When I'm talking to people about this, I asked them 23456 questions, I can usually tell that in any critical way. That's not an OBE that's a hyper lucid dream. And there's several ways you can test here's just two things, just two of many. One is when you're in that experience, let's say you're having this experience, one thing you can do is spin. Spin your avatar, spin your dream body, spin your astral body, whatever it is, spin it and then stop when you stop spinning. Is that a different scene? Or is it the same scene? If it's a different scene, that's a hyper lucid dream. If it's the same scene, that's probably an out of body experience, that's just one test. So there's there's actually ways where you can test this phenomenologically for yourself. And so, I run I have an open mind around these things. But I'm also you know, agnostic and a little bit skeptical, because again, I've talked to dozens if not hundreds of people who have these OBE ease and you know, time after time after time after time, it's a hyper lucid dream. I'm not criticizing it. It's a great experience, but it's not an OBE. And so again, you know, I put my scientific hat on here a little bit and say if this is really true, why can't they do these laboratory situations? Why can't they do these remote viewing things where sometimes they can't, but for purposes of time, I would recommend highly, highly read. I've been Thompson's beautiful book waking, dreaming being and then also on the wonderful anthology edited by Stephen Colbert and Jane Katzenbach. I think it's called Sleeping drain sleeping brain waking mind or something like that. There's a brilliant chapter in that book by Susan Blackburn. She's a psychologist or a psychologist. And her riff on this is also really brilliant. So if you're really into this stuff, and you're playing with it, and again, there is again in classic Dream Yoga, stage eight, maybe seven stage seven Dream Yoga, is in fact to create a special green body and do these sorts of things. But what's actually taking place? You know, ontologically phenomenologically. This is a really deep question that requires, I think, really subtle investigation a little bit outside of our scope for today, but maybe some of those comments will help you really send you in a direction where you can do some homework. Thank you, Andrew. Oh, I love it. Good stuff. Okay, two more and then we probably got to close it. Hey, Jim Bay. Unmute yourself, bro.
Newt. Can you hear me now? Sorry. Thank you, Andrew. Yeah, my question was about sound I was. I'm recalling a lucid dream that I had. That was induced by sort of the transition from hypnogogic state into right into the dream but I started with like a very low hum, that was almost like an ohm or an ohm and then it fell into it. It became very loud, like a channel that I kind of drifted into and, and I hadn't thought about it a long time, but I was at a sound meditation where you know the musicologist was speaking about sound waves and I'm so in the short of it is are there channels that can be like rediscovered somehow where, you know, one might find the space and drop into it? But that you know, of or is it just happened to be that bad experience?
With recommend replicability, right, something that you can kind of tune into that could get invite you into the state of consciousness. Is that what you're talking about?
Yes, yes, exactly. At the time, I had been doing a lot of meditations I was really kind of aware of, you know, maybe more sound rather than, you know, like, basketball sound, maybe I don't know how to describe it, but it really became almost as if it was a sound it was, you know, it had its channel of the home or the channel.
Oh man, I'm hearing so many different things here, bro. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, so, so I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. I mean, in my mind is going all over the place because
Oh, sorry. Okay. Well, the short question might be is if I'm investigating sounds, and specifically you know, sounds that are being created some which are healing sounds or sacred sounds, is there a way of dropping into are there channels that one might be able to drop into and follow it into this, you know, no
channels channels of sound or channels of consciousness or both?
Yeah, he's channels of sound that lead in that are at the same time channels of consciousness that one might, you know, have this experience of a non body? Listen, you know,
well, I think it's possible. I mean, like, why not? Right. So for instance, I mean, the reason I'm interested in this right now is I just met a guy. I'm going to meet with him in a couple of weeks. Who has this whole and actually sounds really pretty effing amazing. So stay tuned, I'll get back to you. This whole amazing sound and light binaural that even binaural beat it's, it transcends using lights and sounds and all kinds of things to induce particular states of consciousness. So I'm gonna go down to his little lab central place and play with this stuff. When I come back, I think I'm doing that at the end of March. I'll file a report and let you know where it took me. Right. But you know, and also the, you might want to listen to the interview I just did with John Dupree because he gave me a free link at the bottom to his eye awake technology, which is brain W E Brainwave Entrainment things. Check that out. Theoretically, what you're saying, oh, yeah, for sure. Right. Each one of these sounds has the capacity each this is actually really interesting stuff. Every state of consciousness is associated with a chakra with an energetic system with a sound and with a color. And so theoretically, not even theoretically, if you're really good at it. Maybe this is what happened to us spontaneously. Do the recitation of the sound for instance, in this case, the sound associated with the sleeping consciousness some bogus so we'll go Kairos and bulgur chakra is our own home. And so, by reciting the sounds and joining them, especially with visualizations, inner yoga is actually precisely about this where you can then through the process of visualization and sound invite what are called the Hindus the mind pearls drops to move into these respective centers. And the correlative phenomenal experiences waking, dreaming and sleeping. So to me, it makes total sense that either serendipitously or perhaps with some induction techniques that really rock these color sounds and whatnot. They could in fact channel you enter the states of consciousness. I see no reason why you can't do that. Well, that makes sense to me. But I'd get back to me in a month, right? And I'm really interested in checking out the scene and if it works, I'll get I'll ping it all over the place. And I'll say go see. Sweet Michael, check out his gig. He's a very smart guy. And I'm actually really excited about what he's got to share. So stay tuned. I'll get back to you in a month on that one. Okay, here's the way I roll with this stuff, man. If it works, this these are the principles of neuro phenomenology, right with every phenomenological experience state of mind, there is a neurological correlate. That's just the way it works. Correlation. Not causation. So if you work with a neurological correlates, it makes total sense that you can invite the phenomenological experiences makes total sense to me. And so I'm sure if the Buddha was alive today and he had access to these things to alter consciousness. I think he would be all over these things. Like these are skillful means. Why not? Use these devices to bring about so called altered states of consciousness or just different states to allow one to discover the fluidity of the mind and all the other things that can happen? But basically, what you say really does make sense to me. And I think absolutely positively you can do this sort of thing. Okay, awesome. Okay, one last one from Adam, and then I'll go through the chat column, and then we're done.
Thank you very much. Um, so, my first time on the channel, just a very methodological question. So I read your books I started about three years ago. I have a very good with a hypnagogic. State. Very good with dream recall. I've had just a few lucid dreams, but I really have a lot of trouble. Like I'm spending a lot of time working on it. And I just am having a hard time with actually achieving lucidity. It's like, you know I'll be dropping into the hypnogogic stayed at 4am being like okay, come on, let's do it. You know, and then boom, it's gone. I just, you know, dropped through the Bardo gone into the dirt into the dream state. The dream world is real.
Questions. Oh, my friend if I had a nickel every time this question was asked me, let's look at all the smiling faces on this platform. And again, I'm not I'm not criticizing you, or Oh, no, no, it's cool. This is the number one, the number one most common question outside of in my Bardo teachings. What continues after death, right. That's my best number two question. So I have I have written talked about this extensively but let me say a couple of things and then refer you to some sources right so I don't know if you're a member of nightclub if you're not don't worry if you are a member cool so go back to I don't remember off the top my head which webinars but when we first launched the program, I think I ended up doing like 50 webinars. And if you go through, we have write ups on them. If you look in there, you will find 234 Or five, six webinars about stability. But here's again, this is like the number one thing connected to some of the earlier questions as well. The fact that we have so many there's so many ways to answer this atom, but the principal reason that we have so many non lucid dreams and that we capitulate to analysis at every night is because we have a non lucid relationship to the contents of our mind period during the day. And so basically, if you really want to work with this, this is what separates Dream Yoga from lucid dreaming. The number one single greatest thing you can do is meditate. Meditation is the practice of lucidity. That's why meditators have more lucid dreams. Oh, Alyssa. This reminds me if you have it, put up the link from Benjamin Baird. My neuroscientist friend because he wants you remember, dear friend of mine that I'm doing a lot of stuff with the scientific community these days really cool stuff. I'm working with a bunch of scientists. And I've worked with Benjamin Baird was even the bearish band.
But just to note, I've been I'm a Zen practitioner going back 30 years, seven day you said Sheen's um you know, sitting for an hour a day, so I got that part and I try and use I love to you know the practice the lucidity practices during the day that you give. I've used them all the time. I'm just something I'm losing it in the dream. I'm just I can't go No.
Okay, well, cool. That actually then really helps me. So then the other practice that you can do that I don't think there's any tradition has are the batteries of practices associated with illusory form. So again, there's several different things. The meditation thing is the big one. The practice of illusory form is another really big one. And then you know, really the most important thing is, as you know, as a practitioner is just the steadiness, the constancy. Just keep going at it. bump it up every now and again with some Galantamine. Take some of this acetylcholine esterase take lanch me four milligrams eight milligrams, every couple of weeks, every month or so what that will do is really spike up the clarity and your dream and really increase the likelihood and again, studies have shown this we're having lucidity, play with all these extra different techniques, engage in programs, you know, people when they attend programs, it's like when you start to saturate your mind in this space, he started to have it. So there was a lot of magic involved in lucidity. But there's a heck of a lot of mechanics, causality, physics, karma. And so all the stuff I rip about riff about in the Dream Yoga Book, all the stuff in the hybrid depress dreaming workbook thing. You start to really saturate work with these things on a consistent basis. You're gonna start popping lucid dreams more and more. Now, it doesn't happen constantly. It's not like a clear graph curve going up. It's like the tide goes down and comes back because then it comes back, but slowly, it progresses forward. And so the single most important thing is perseverance, balance with a sense of humor, levity, playfulness, and basically you know, really powerful intention is driving intentionality and then also other times like in my conversation with Ryan heard, you let the whole bloody thing go. Because sometimes if you're trying too hard, it backfires. The sandals too tight. You have to release it. Often when you release it. What a surprise. I give up. Stewart being lucid dream start coming. It's almost like they're flipping you off right? The principle that lucid dreams don't abide by by traditional principles, space and time don't apply. All the stuff doesn't apply. Even even patterns of effort. Don't apply. So sometimes to me, it's like the lucid dream is flipping you off. Like you're trying too hard right egos too involved so that's what makes these practices advanced and subtle and difficult. They're the needles really slippery stuff mercurial. If you ever tried putting your finger on a Betta mercury, it just slips all over the damn place. But eventually trial and error you find your sweet sweet spot and you'll know how to work with these things. Okay, well, thank you welcome. Okay, let me just go through these and this chat column and then we're done. Hi, Andrew, my age in my age in stages of life, not much sexual activity. Welcome to Aging. Who needs that stuff anyway, man, it's overrated, right? In my dreams, like I had so many bad jokes here i straining myself. In my dreams. However, I would say that 30 to 50% of my dreams have some kind of sexual component in them. That's super common, super common, in your opinion. Why is that? I can't say for sure. Is just unbelievably normal really? Which is why again there's some very creative okay, this is this is this is X Ray did little commentary but this is true. I'm not kidding is this when I said this? I said, Are you kidding me? I'm not sure if it's there, but Google it. There's actually a device he could get it had the word rooster in it. I can't remember I looked at it a couple of years ago, and I said, Wow, this is like really clever. But a lot of men when they have these dreams, they have erections. And so there's this particular device. I am not making this stuff up and there is this particular device you can put over yourself in the appropriate place. That then will actually signal right when you get erect it will send a signal. It's like the dream vagal thing but it's a different set of stimuli. I'm not making this up. And then basically through that type of association that will then trigger you you know, there's something I haven't tried this I'm pretty kinky, but I'm not kinky. It will apparently trigger lucidity because it's like, hey, wait a second. I generally don't feel this down everyone. I'm dreaming, right? Try it. This could be this could be your way in man. Right? This could be like, Oh my god. Andrew changed my life on that one day. Try it. I've never done it. It's there. When somebody said it to me. I said, Wow, no, this is really clever. Clever. I wonder if they got a lot like a startup campaign for this. Anyway, very funny in a certain way. But somebody thought about this already go for it. Okay, what about people from dreams within a period of waking life? Yeah. That's not at all uncommon as well. That's part of the fact that dreams are often that often dreams originate from the substrate consciousness all phenomenal appearances arise from the sub substrate consciousness. And therefore very often you have poor cognitive prodromal dreams that then manifest in waking life because before that experience manifests in a waking reality. It comes up through the southern dimensions of mind you register it as a dream. That's really common. Carl Jung talked about this as well. Kind of slow down here trying to get through this. Oh, yeah. Nice. Nice insertion of quotes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. From Mary Rose Bernard. It's actually a seven part session on idea like the idea of analytic idealism that Bernardo is offered for free on YouTube is effing brilliant. This guy's this guy's amazing. I'm a huge fan of his seven part session. It's really great. Oh, yeah, man, animal world and immense, an immense world beautiful book.
Cool. Cool.
All right. I think I got them all. Yeah. Andrew, what was the other book that you read? From? Which one dear hope sorry. There was a second book that you read from the only book I read from the both. They're both from they're both excerpts from my book. So yeah, I mean, the whole book is really in some ways about the the union of waking and dreaming realities. So it's all about that kind of stuff. So hey, thanks, everybody. These sessions are getting rich. I hope they're not too speedy. I tried to get through really deep, big questions in a short period of time. It's not so easy. So I do my best. So we dedicate the merit if that means anything to you, the stuff we do here is not just for ourselves, it's for the benefit of all beings. Please don't forget that. It's also very secret sauce for lucidity. You want to attain lucidity and the dream. Practice your dream yoga for the benefit of others. Wake up in your dream so you can help others wake up. So if this means anything, gather the merit, send it out to the world. And then the usual array of events are taking place. You know everything that's happening on our platforms, but it's a total delight to be with you all if you want to do this geeky love thing we do you can turn on your camera, unmute yourself and we can give ourselves as big group cyber hug which is really corny, but it's also kind of sweet. Pleasant, everybody. Everyone, thank you