All right, so that might have been my roughest start yet. But Welcome back friends to another great episode today. I have Susan gold with us. Susan, thank you so much for being here.
It's a delight.
And Susan for the audience, would you mind sharing a little bit backstory about yourself?
Yeah, not at all. So I grew up in the center of Pennsylvania in the sticks, just wanting to get to New York City as fast as it could. I was in the middle of five with two pseudo adults doing the best they could at the helm. My dad was a genius astrophysicist. And he also had a little issue with alcohol and womanizing and bulimia through exercise, my mother was trying to find soothing through food, she was a compulsive Overeater and was treated with diet pills, which, at the time was speed. And she also may have had a mental illness. So it's a pretty chaotic, and rough environment. And it was cloistered no one from the outside really knew what was going on inside. And I left the morning after I graduated high school. I left a coordinate in the morning, and I didn't go back often.
That's often the hardest, right when it looks normal from the outside, but it's only truly few people know, what really happens behind closed doors. I think everybody likes to, I think to some extent everyone has, you know, problems that go on, but we like to give up front, like everything is perfect. Right?
I don't know. Yeah, I
hope that's, that's crumbling. Now, I mean, with my son's generation, they're sort of, I mean, way more open about mental health struggles and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, maybe there's, there's hope for transparency.
Right. I think that's, I think that's really important. Because we need a sense of community sense of support, especially when you go through things, such as yourself, right? And I want to ask, because that leads us to where we are today. And you wrote a book on this type of stuff, because it truly has impacted your life. And, you know, what have you learned along the way?
Through that journey? Well, I've learned a lot, I think I laid it down and talk therapy, and it took a couple of decades off and on. But I'm glad to have the storyline. And then what's really helped are more somatic forms of exploration, I hold a lot of body trauma, internally in pockets. So that's what's really helped with actual shifting, you know, the neural pathways, but the book really was not my idea, you know, so much time, like, dissecting all this, because I had issues, you know, that came up in young adulthood and, you know, they continue, right, that's life. That's, you know, part of life is that self exploration and self realization and opportunity for soul evolution, at least for me, but I was encouraged by by an Irish seer in 2007, probably before you were born to write this book. And then I have two other intuitives make the same recommendation. And the last one said, Well, you have a lot to say you have three books to write. And I was like, oh, man, is that going?
Are you reading three books?
Oh, gosh, let,
let's see what the universe has to say. You know, I, I am willing, if that's what it takes. It was a great exercise. You know, it was a TV producer for a long time. And you're a bulldog in the trench just making things happen. I used to come in at eight and they say 1:30pm Today, we have a live hit. We need a black, a white and an Hispanic with opposing points of view on this issue. Go, you know, so.
Like, yeah, let me just find that real quick.
Yeah, you're kind of expected to. So you know, that's the modality I've played out in writing the book, you know, I'd spend 15 minutes a day at the computer. or whether I had something to write or not. And it was, it was cool to get a first pass. But I didn't feel connected to that story until really a wise mentor said, you know, why don't you go back and take a pass from, you know, that inner child in your heart that's lived through all this, that really experienced it. And that's when everything sort of fell into place. So what does that mean? I'll pass on, like a pass. Um, so take another, right. Okay, look at the manuscript. And, you know, make edits, rewrite it from little Susie's point of view. And that's when it became real.
Did you go through much of this self awareness journey on your own? Or did you have a support system? Oh, my
gosh, to go through it alone would have been excruciating. I've never wanted to be a sole monk on the mountain, trust me. But ya know, I've had a lot of help a lot of teachers that I'm really grateful for. I'm very fortunate in that I'm very open and willing to try all sorts of things. But initially, it was traditional talk therapy. And I was guided in that direction, because my life was like, completely out of control, totally unmanageable. I had abusive relationships that I couldn't extricate myself from I took a slug from a wind job, just like my dad used to do you know, from the whiskey bottle at 7:30am. I wanted to ask for a raise at work and can't seem to do it any other way. My goals were sort of falling by the wayside, and my friends were becoming more nefarious and a little bit more fair weather types. So I knew I knew something was that Well, I was associating with a different frequency. Let's just put it that way. I, I was very a brilliant, I was very dreamy. And when I first arrived in New York City, and I sort of let life experience spin me down a little bit on the spiral. I had no semblance of self, I was like a chameleon, I was who you wanted me to be for love for attention for what I thought was approval. And I learned that early on, in my upbringing, so a general like, level sense of playing field, and, you know, a platform for, for knowing who I was. That was much later in my
trajectory. So are you saying, you saw a sense of drifting apart? Due to, you know, maybe, what are your dreams different? When are you dreaming big, or,
I was still, I was still dreaming big. But I think my dreams became more fantasy. As I started to play out this, this vision that more matched the home that I grew up in then where I wanted to go as a child. And luckily, I could see the signs. And luckily, I asked for help and was guided to the perfect place. It led me to get clean. And four and a half years later, it led me to treatment for clinical depression, which I struggled with often on for 10 years until I learned about clinical depression and the signs and how to manage it. And I'm happy to say I've been off medication for decades, but I was grateful that it was there as a tool when I needed it. Um, and I was led into silent meditation. I'm a longtime meditator. And also endurance sports marathons triathlons, which had its pluses and also had its downsides. Well, that's
right. You know, I really was excited about this conversation because I believe self awareness is so important. And I think today more than ever before it's looked over, especially because when anyone has a moment of silence to their own mind, we just run to the next thing to escape, whether that's on our phones, you know, when we're eating, we won't watch TV. When we're in the car, we'll listen to music. You're almost never alone with your thoughts anymore. And I think that's led, you know, the generations to come in a predicament, it makes it harder to, you know, express yourself and truly find who you are.
I think one of the most painful moments was, I went into a restaurant with my with my son, he was in his teens, and there was a family at the other table, a family of four, and they were all doing, you know, this, like, looking down? I don't know, maybe they were texting each other at the table? I'm not sure. But
I've seen that before. I've seen seen it texting each other.
Yeah, and it's just this cold, sterile disconnect.
And this pure disconnect of who we are as human beings with intellect and emotion.
And beauty and explicit power within sort of gray.
And a small portion of communication is verbal. A lot of it is nonverbal, right? The the way someone says it the delivery the the body language, which is all lost through text.
I think so, I mean, for me, and probably you two, or you wouldn't be doing what you're doing right now, or you probably would have gone to school for Anthropology, I would imagine. I was like, super intuitive, as a little kid. And I actually was highly telepathic until it got me into too much trouble. And I had to shut it down. But that's, that's come back. And I think I think many of us are, and I think I think for many of us, that gift is being reactivated and we're sort of tuning into that. And I think I think dialing down the digital trauma, and cacophony will really help bring us back to that point of a balance as a society.
So when you say telepathic, can you elaborate?
Okay, well, I'm going to try not to get to Southern California who want you. I'm now living in rural Montana, right? Yeah. So so the chaos was intense in my home, and my mother could be very loving, like, very kind. And then the next minute, she could be grabbing your arm with their thumb, like penetrating the little bone and shaking you until you almost pass out. So I learned to intuit and understand to an astute degree body language and feeling sensing, energetic shifts, I could see by her eyes, I could tell by the frequency of the body, that there could be trouble or be Abreu. Right. And I knew how to stay mom and take cover and pray My name would be called. And I could also just very naturally, I could hear people think I could I could hear like full sentences in My Father's
being. And he didn't quite understand why a six year old understood his affair with sweet Susie, while he was finishing his PhD, I mean, just very literal. Information would come my way. And then I think as an adult, you know it. It came back so fiercely when I was on a silent meditation retreat, it was a week. It was total silence, no eye contact. And sitting on the cushion like for half hour hour segments one night all night. And by the end of that week, I went to the grocery store to pick up a couple of items before I went back to the house. And I could clearly hear what the checker was like the conversation she was having internally and I was like, oh, it's back again.
Sounds really lower than
it is pretty intense and it's something now that that I turn off most of the time but I do have the the ability to turn on if if I want if I choose to and I don't Choose to often because I really want to experience life as it is. And as I possibly project it to me.
I'm assuming people give you weird looks when you say things like that.
Yes, sometimes they do. And I have to say, like, sometimes I'll meet a friend, they'll slip into the booth and it just comes up and out. It's like how did you know that? That's like been on my mind for the last three days? I've been really struggling with that.
That's really interesting, because, you know, I think part of the ability to develop a very strong intuition has to come from a sense of need
for it. I don't think I don't think
I don't know what maybe from your experience, you can tell me differently. But it seems as though anyone that can develop a strong sense of intuition had a need to develop it in the first place.
Actually, I think we all have it. Yeah, I do. I think, do we all
develop it? And no, no.
And perhaps you're right, perhaps there was a need? I don't know. That's, that would be an interesting study.
Yeah. Right. So, you know, you talk about meditation quite a bit. So far, I'd like to get into that idea. Because I think that's really important when it comes to self awareness and understanding your mind. Like we said, people escaped very frequently and very easily nowadays. So, you know, what was that meditation journey? Like, when you started? Was it kind of, oh, no, this isn't, you know, what could this possibly do? And, you know, I assume, you know, even with me, when, when I first heard about meditations, like just sitting there and doing nothing, like, how could that possibly do anything for you? Right, it's, it feels so easy that it couldn't possibly work almost.
Well, I think the first experience was a half day set in my one of my therapists, she was a longtime meditator, as well. And she did a half hour and a half day workshop in our apartment in New York City. And I thought I was gonna die. I was like, This is ridiculous. And time for this. This is a waste, I can hear the car horns, there's nothing silent in my head. thoughts were so intense. And then I moved to LA and like, found it was the possible style. So I sat in the posture and did very focused work setting and, and the teacher was super scientific, and every retreat, he'd have a different strategy on, you know, the focus and, and then ultimately, I said to him, you know, yeah, I feel internal. But what about all this stuff out here? Like, I can really feel out here? Like, probably three feet. From my being, there's all you know, colors and all sorts of things going on. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, like, we're moving on from here. Yeah. So my meditation practice became much different, it became less about the cushion. And it became more about just breathing and being in the moment, noticing my arms and my legs. Noticing when I was in conversation with you, for example, anticipating what your question might be, before I finish my response, or listening to your question, but not really listening. Rather formulating my genius, academic response. That's why Yeah, right. So yeah, so it's, it's more about just noticing and and I'm not judgmental, I have nothing formal. You know, I just, I sat for 20 minutes, just out of the blue before our conversation, and it sort of just happened naturally. But I don't think I've sat for 20 minutes, probably, you know, I don't know, 10 days. I look a lot at the mountains. I look at the sun. I appreciate nature. I watch the wind blow through the prairie year. You know, I like the sun. Colors changes as the sunrises, those are all meditations and also being with strangers. You know, just sit and just breathe and tune in and just be very present. Right.
So in college, I did this biological anthropology research in Kenya, and it was the first time, I had been, as I describe it attuned to nature, and it was the most life changing experience I'd ever had at that point in my life, because, you know, for two decades plus, it was, you know, fast paced society, you know, constantly surrounded by people and technology. And so although technology wasn't as prominent as it is now, there was still, you know, those massive computers and things like that we were still surrounded by it, you know, as I grew up, and it was a very fast paced world. And for the first time, everything felt like it just flowed, and it was present, rather than what's next, what's next, what am I going to do, it was, you know, enjoying the long walks on the sand and, and listening to the waves. And it was super surreal. It was the first time I realized that I do believe nature is important to our well being, and the more detached you are, I think the more mental health problems can start to arise from that alone.
I'm just so grateful that you had that experience. And it is profoundly surprising to me that, you know, there are many of your generation, and the generations below that just they don't that connections been trained out of them. But I'm hopeful that it comes back and people see the meaning of it. And there is plenty of nature on this planet to enjoy.
I'm hoping that, you know, over time, more information like this is shared between people. So people start to, you know, think maybe there is something to it and try it for themselves, because there is a lot of science behind even for those that are interested right science behind how nature impacts your body and your well being. So, you know, what are some of the self care that you do that's in nature? Well, just,
when I when I get the opportunity to ground, I love it. I bet there was a woman who was so impactful in my career, and she did not stop running. Her central nervous system was on overdrive, she was highly accomplished. But we used to meet occasionally to, you know, go to a park and have a sandwich together. And one of those lunch hours, I said, like sit on this grass, like it was a beautiful July day. And we sat there for 45 minutes. And she was chatting and chatting, you know, as she did.
And then all of a sudden, she said, Oh my gosh, and her breathing, you know, slow, she said, I feel like I've had a full body massage. And I said, yeah, thank you just experienced grounding, and earthing.
I've looked into that idea quite a bit, actually. And there is some science to suggest that the Earth emits this slight negative charge, and then your body kind of absorbs it. And you know, we have this thing called oxidative stress, which is positive charges in your body. So it attracts. And, you know, to the audience listening, I would say don't knock it till you try it. Because if you think about it, most people feel very calm after the beach, when they go to the beach, and they come back, they feel incredibly calm. Because you know, their feets in the sand and they you know, listening to the waves and there is a sense of, I think there is some signs there. I think there's something that's truly impactful to the human body.
There's a lot of science in the sciences becoming more available. And there's all sorts of light and frequencies that we're open to now in that are flooding the planet. I don't know about you, but I've been taking a lot of naps lately. Very tired had have had body aches and, you know, brain fog. And I think it's the amping up of the frequencies and the light.
I've been drinking quite a bit of caffeine. That'll do it too. But, you know, I when I was in Kenya, there is you know, these children, let's say roughly around the ages of maybe four to 810 years old, and you know, they like to interact with, you know, foreigners and when They were just talking or, you know, the short form of talking we were able to do because we didn't speak the same language. And they asked, they asked me to come with them to show me something. And these kids were all running through the grass, flat, plain grass. And I had taken off my shoes for some reason. And I took a few steps in the grass. And I start like bouncing because there's thorns in these grass. And there's thorns everywhere. There's thorns in the flowers, or stones and grass or stores on the tree in Kenya, it's, it's crazy. There's thorns everywhere. And these kids are just like laughing at me, they just thought it was the most hilarious thing that my feet couldn't walk on their grass, and they just rocked like it was nothing. And they're like eight years old. So they just like are laughing hysterically. I'm like bouncing up and down. Because it's like, painful. So I had to, like put on shoes. And it's just interesting to me that, you know, the human body is so adaptable, but I think we've detached so much so from society that we're uncalibrated in a way.
I'm right there with Yeah, I mean, just my own personal experience with that is, you know, I was an athlete, a masters athlete and adult athlete, very accomplished, again, grabbing self esteem from the wrong but bucket perhaps but nonetheless. And then I got to the place where I couldn't even walk around the block without excruciating pain. And I knew you know, I'm of the age, if I went to a mess, Western medical profession, they'd say Insert titanium, you know, here's the date. And I didn't want to go that route I, I wasn't willing. And it wasn't the easier softer way, it wasn't the shortest way. And I had a couple of years where I was in chronic pain, but I did not focus on the pathology, I focused on the muscle. And eventually I found healing. Um, and I just, I just say, you know, it's just so simple. Well, I'm on a time timeline, I need to play tennis next week with my partner. So just cut me open now and fix my wrist, you know. The human body is amazing. And our ability to heal is amazing. Our ability to add to it our ability to dream and envision and create. And I believe we have everything we need inside to really live prosperously and abundantly as a global community.
And I think in order to get there, we need to align the mind, body and spirit. Because even if you look at Western diet, it's it's almost atrocious, actually, if you look at it, the way that FDA just kind of interferes, and allows things that shouldn't be allowed. And coming from you know, I, I was born in India, raised in the US, but I go back to India frequently. And even there, I noticed that a lot of the chemicals and products used in everyday products here are banned in India, and they're banned in many other countries as well, like the food coloring, used in a lot of these candies and stuff like that. So it's a little it's a little nervous, nerve racking, I would say, being in the United States, because you have to almost think independently, whether you should or shouldn't do something.
You have the choice to do it. And I agree wholeheartedly there and I think a lot of our illness comes from those food. I can't even I don't even want to call it food. Like maybe a better word is plastic.
Right? Yeah.
Yeah, I think I think our food system, our health care system, certainly our education system, our banking system, our government system, I think a lot of our systems may need a little revamping, a little exploration a little gentle upgrade. And I I really feel we're being led in that direction. A lot of people that I know are a little apprehensive and feeling a lot of fear. And I'm actually focusing on the hope and the belief of a positive transformation. I know that the trauma that I've been able to To transform and my own being, and where that's led to such freedom now, as an adult, I mean, I've, I've come full circle, my mom's gone, but my dad's still here, my brother that was horribly abusive. My sister who, you know, I love and adore, and my two younger brothers, we have a relationship. We have interaction, you know, my book is called toxic family. But I don't feel that way, about my family, my title was actually magical illumination, because that's what I feel this discovery has been. And I'm grateful for all those players, because they've created another reality for me, they've, they've given me the opportunity, as long as I was willing to take it to step up and address what wasn't working for me, and to see it in a new light. And I feel like that is the same opportunity we have as a global population, to sort of step out of the matrix that was not to our benefit, and to create something that is, and I see that happening. And that keeps me very hopeful in these times. Right.
Now, going back to the idea of self awareness a little bit, what exercises or practices helped you gain more understanding of yourself.
So I writing and I was never, I mean, I was told I was a writer, you know, Fox News Channel and the news. Just right, the way gold does. But, um, I think what's really helped is, and this is something that Lee Harris gave me who's also a teacher, just I open a journal and I just or my notes in my phone, or, you know, on the computer, and I just sit, I take a breath, and I say, What would my soul have me know today and I just write whatever comes up, and, you know, for the first couple of weeks, it's kind of okay, this is the same dumb message that's having to do with anything. But But um, yeah, I'm really surprised by day 21. How much you know, the writing is clear and and helped me shift and open me to other considerations. And I didn't even need you know, I Alaska to do it. All there.
Right, or a shaman?
Well, that too. I mean, they serve their purpose, right, you know, whatever. Whatever way works for you to get there. Honestly, like, I who am I to judge
those sound really sense? I've I've heard stories, having a shaman there and doing Ayahuasca that sounds it sounds because apparently you quite literally purge your you vomit. Because it's, I don't know, maybe the body can't physically handle what you're drinking or whatever. And then you go through the experience and sounds very intense.
So for me that that intuitive voice is super loud on that, like, I think I was in fifth grade when they showed us the movie of someone flipping out from an acid trip and jumping out like a skyscraper in the city. I didn't want to have anything to do with it. Like it always scared me. Even when I was you know, experimenting, I, I knew I couldn't go that direction. So I feel the same about, you know, the iOS stuff. And I knew that wasn't for me, but I had done traditional Native American sweat lodges with, you know, a leader who was really magnificent, and that's, yeah, that's definitely me. I did. I did hot yoga for way too many years. And that was also a transformational experience. Really? I think we all Yeah.
Yeah. But as opposed to regular yoga. Like yeah,
okay. Yeah. So I did Ashtanga for a lot of years, which was really beautiful, but it turned out like super hard on my joints and I really love to sweat. So like going in a hot room at 105 degrees or a little more was fun for me. It just felt natural. My body seemed to take to it like a duck to water until it didn't, but it just felt like yeah, some kind of amazing cleansing but I think I also became addicted to it because I do have an addictive personality. Second, I can take almost anything out.
Well, I like the idea that you mentioned about writing. And, you know, when you first start, it does feel a little.
I would say,
unproductive. It doesn't feel like you're getting anywhere. But something that helped me was almost writing as if I'm talking to somebody like it like a conversation, rather than trying to express it in the form of eyes. Instead of saying, you know, I feel this, I feel that talking to somebody else, like, hey, you know, this is what I'm going through. And then it's like, then you flip the script, and you're like, Okay, well, why are you going through that as if you're having like a conversation. And that seemed to really help me dig a little deeper. When it came to ideas, for sure. Wow, that's such a beautiful tool.
And I love that you share that. And it also triggered a memory for me, like when I was five, I had this imaginary uncle Eddie that used to come to visit me. And I used to talk with him, like, having a conversation about things that were going on. And you know, how I could be helped. And, yeah, it was almost the same dialogue that you've just described. But I haven't tried that. I want to try that.
Yeah, it really helped me get into this flow state of writing to understand myself because you just start asking yourself the same questions as if you were speaking to a friend or, you know, even directing it at someone has helped as well, thinking of someone in mind when you read when you write it.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Have you done any other? Because you mentioned Okay, meditation, writing yoga? Are these the main ways that most people obtain higher self awareness?
Well, you can do it through harming like, harming create set frequent frequency, and it lifts your frequency sometimes. Don't tell anybody, but I go. I go in the center of my living room, you know, where there's no furniture, and I put my arms out and I spin around, you know, like little kids on the playground, spin around. And it just, I feel so happy.
You don't get dizzy. I can't do that. Yep.
That's all part of it, though, isn't it?
Yeah. Except I get motion sickness. So if I did that, I would fall just collapse.
But I've always sort of kept that childlike, you know, curiosity and, and sense of fun. And I think that's what's helped me stay brilliant, and grounded on the planet for as long as I have. Because I know there are exit points for all of us along the way. And I can recollect more than several. I think my first fascination with the possibility of suicide was when I was six, I was in the kitchen, and I opened the cabinetry and saw the chopping block with the knives in it and I, I took out a knife and just surveyed the blade with with fascination wondering, you know, what would, would it be like if I could just Lance that played through my heart, this would all be over. And then my mother came in screaming and shut them right back in and then put it back. But if I didn't have that light within me, I think I would have been out of here on an earlier train. But I meant to stay. I meant to stay and, and I think, you know, the, the exercise of writing this book, I'm speaking to amazing people through podcasts. And just the experience of putting the pieces together as I have now. After a lot of self reflection and examination and help. I feel like, this is my purpose. I mean, my career has been amazing, right? I had a lot of flashy celebrities that I worked with, and a lot of great opportunities.
I saw some movies in your bio with the Phineas and Ferb project and things like that. Oh,
yeah. It's a lot of lot of stuff. Yeah, I did a lot but I feel like this is my purpose. This was the reason for All that I've walked through and lived through. And the the whole topic is taboo of, you know, toxic family. That's it, that's taboo. And I feel like creating conversation around it. And, you know, really sharing experience to inspire others to share their as, as well and start to look at things that may feel shameful. Or secret can lead to dropping a lot of stuff that doesn't belong to us. Right and to live life with wings rather than weights.
Right, that's so true. Another thing is, I'm hoping that over time, we can go back to having civil discourse about topics that right now feel a bit taboo, whether it's politics, religion, spirituality, diet, I mean, there's a lot of topics that people are hesitant to speak on it. And if we don't speak on it, how are we ever going to grow as humanity? You know, in a right direction, we're just either gonna stay stagnant or slowly go backwards. I think that's evolution.
Yeah, there's, there's been a poll, I think there's been a pull away from that transparency, there's almost been a cloak of censorship in in all areas of being human walking a human journey. And, and I feel like that cloak is starting to get peeled back. You know, the weighted blanket is coming off.
Right. That's why on the podcast cover, I put discovering the human experience, because after that transformative journey in Kenya, I realized there's a lot more that then a lot more to life than meets the eye that we are here.
Yeah, really? How did your How did your life change after you came back on the plane? How did your own life change as a result of that experience?
Well, when I first came back, I tried to hold on to that euphoria, of bliss that I felt that when I was attuned to nature, but very quickly, I realized my body adjusted to life's luxuries, like air conditioning, and cold beverages again. And just literally everything. Within a matter of weeks, I was back to who I was in a small manner. And then I spent the next few years really just kind of frustrated as to trying to figure out how to feel like that again. You know, I tried, I would experiment I would try, okay, I'm just gonna take cold showers every day, see if that did it. Okay, I'm gonna, you know, drink only warm water every day, see if that did it. And I think ultimately, I'm at the point where I realized I don't think it was just one thing, I think it was a synergistic whole of everything,
to create, what felt like,
not just a tune with nature, but attuned with who I was, as, you know, a better understanding of my body and my mind, because of the lifestyle that I was in. So, you know, once I realized that, I took a step back and thought, Okay, well, then that means I need more work on self awareness, self care, and things of that nature, right? Whether it's working out to keep your body healthy, or writing to keep your mind healthy. And then, you know, thinking to keep your spirit healthy, I guess.
I'm so grateful you share that, because that's, it's so helpful to hear it, especially coming from the masculine right? We don't get to hear that enough. And I just think that's such profound messaging. Thank you.
Yeah, no problem. So you say, you know, you don't hear it as often from the masculine perspective. That's something I've actually observed myself, I don't think we see as many men willing to accept a spiritual journey. Have you noticed that?
Well, I think You know, the training is pretty rigorous, right? Big Boys Don't Cry, you know?
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I think that the indoctrination kind of doesn't help. But I, I feel like more has been unraveling and I think we're headed to more openness more feminine merging with the masculine. Right, right like a balance. Yeah, I mean I had I had an over developed sense of masculine and it's not been easy for me to surrender and pepper in more femininity
in heart. I bet you know,
but if we even look back at it, I would say if you look at philosophers and and you know Greek philosophers and stoicism and things of that nature, there was a point in time where men were much more open to understanding their mind as well. I think that
art got muddled somewhere along the way. Yeah, I have to agree with you.
I don't know why could maybe it was the Industrial Revolution, and then technology, but I think I think you're right, I think we do see a little bit of shift back to understanding ourselves.
Yeah, cuz it just doesn't work. Men are broken.
Yeah. Right. You know, right. And the only way to heal and I mean, yeah, yeah. And the only way to heal is to truly look inwards. Yeah. So, you know, Susan, this show is called Learn or be learned. So I want to ask one final question, which is, what is one big lesson that either you learn from someone or you want the audience to learn from your own life?
Well, I think, for me, the greatest lesson is to be true to who I am, regardless of other opinions or
frailties. So I think that
the real truth for me has been to step into that small still voice, who has my best intentions in heart. And then to be brave enough to say, Yeah, I'm going to follow you. And I wish I would have done that. At 20 rather than 50,
but I'll take it. Yeah, we all have our own journeys, right. There's probably, there's probably a purpose as to why your journey happened the way it unraveled.
Yeah, but I think next time, I'm gonna look at that fine print. All right.
All right. Well, Susan, thank you so much for being on the show. I had a blast.
I am so grateful you're producing it. And I know, it takes effort. It takes intellect. It takes heart it takes energy, takes finances, to bring this message forward. And I'm so grateful for your guests have been profound and deep. And you're the real thing and I hope you continue on. Thank you.