Well, both my brother. My brothers moved Oceanside.
Yeah, I lived in Riverside at one time. Did you and Redlands, right.
Oh, wow. All right. Hey, Keith stuff. Thanks for being on crossroads,
Josh. Thanks for having me.
So, Keith, you've been in the comedy business a long time. And a lot of people are saying it's hard to be funny these days, because you have so many like sacred cows. There's so much stuff you can't make fun of anymore. So I mean, what he, I guess let's start by how have you seen comedy change with the political environment? Well,
I started doing stand up comedy professionally in 91. So I've been around for a different era. Yeah. And I started in Los Angeles. So I was around all the action that was happening at that time with Sam Kennison, Robin Williams. Of course, he was a little before my time, but prior was around Eddie Murphy was around Arsenio was
back. When comedians were like gold. Yeah, that was back when he you know, you turn on Comedy Central. And it was comedians. You know, it wasn't politics, and they were funny. Yeah, you know,
well, Comedy Central is turned into South Park. Like South Park episodes, you rarely see stand up comedy on Comedy Central.
Well, South Park is May as somehow being been able to maintain the ability to make fun of everything. But yeah, I don't think many people have that anymore. So but let's go back in the 90s. What was the what was the environment of comedy?
Um, it was pretty much no holds barred. Do what you want. However, when it came to getting your content out to the world, like most comedians at that time, the objective was to try to get on a sitcom. So you had your Paul risers and your Seinfeld's and your Drew Carey's and your Rosie O'Donnell's and Alan's and all them. But the angle is a comic at that point, was hoping to land a sitcom that was really the objective and appearance on The Tonight Show was huge, that that meant almost everything. So if you're on The Tonight Show, with FCC regulations, and all the other are in the mainstream networks, it had to be a certain way. So now what you did in the clubs, or in theaters was different material. But what they did on network TV, obviously was it was it was monitored more closely.
So this is interesting. Comedians coming in doing their comedy shows they were aiming to get on the big network. So it was it the big networks, they started clamping on, you know, the politics side of it. What was that where it came from?
That's pretty much where it came from. But that took a while for it to get there. But honestly, most of the comedians that you saw that performed on like the Tonight Show, or even HBO pretty much toed the line, and they were pretty clean when it came to it. Because once again, they were hoping to land a big series at that. That's it's not that way now, but that's the way it was like in the late 80s, early 90s.
So So explain to me what it was like then and kind of how it's changed because it was different back then. It was it was funny back then, you know, Saturday Night Live used to be pretty dang weighty now. It's, it's very partisan.
Yeah, I think Saturday Night Live kind of comes and goes based on the cast and the based on your perspective, I'm with you on that right now. And I don't know that I'm the target audience for SNL at this point, because I watch it, I kind of hate watch it on my own. Because I just like, I can't believe this. I I do watch it because I'm a comic. And I know some of the cast members actually. But from a personal standpoint, it's hard for me to, it's hard for me to enjoy.
So So tell me about this, then I mean, what do you think is the heart of comedy because I personally feel like most comedies not that funny anymore.
I would disagree with that. I just think you're not looking in the right place is and that's drive our comedy. So what we've done at drive our comedy, and I've been doing it a long time, about five years ago, we there's an underserved population out there, people that just want to laugh, they don't want to go through all the muck, but they want clean yet really funny comedy. So at dry bar, we have filmed 500 comedy specials with comedians that are fantastic. And I'll bet you 50 bucks you haven't heard of. But these are comedians that have worked all over the country. They've honed their craft, they worked in bars, and nightclubs, and comedy clubs, in theaters and banquet rooms like this. And they've done their gigs and honed their craft, but never really got the opportunity. And it's even tougher now to get that type of an opportunity because the way the business is run, like when we started dry bar, and I book all the talent for dry bar, I have relationships with agents, and in LA I mean, the big agents, I know exactly who they are. And I would talk to them and tell them about hey, I've got dry bar comedy, it's gonna be a little different. We feel like there's an underserved market out there people that want clean, yet funny, not corny, but really funny comedy. And they're like, ah, what? They didn't believe it exists.
So how do you do it? Because it because you know, the way I've always seen comedy is it has to make fun of something. It has to be a bit witty. Yeah. And typically it's gonna offend somebody. How do you do right? How do you do dry bar comedy? Well,
there's truth there's truth that However, if you look at a couple of really, most well known clean type comics, Brian Regan, Jim Gaffigan, they mainly make fun of themselves. So it's more self deprecating. So as an audience member, as a matter of fact, sometimes it gets to the point where the audience feels sorry for you. Because you're beating up on yourself. Like when I talk about when I'm on stage, I talk about this, you look amazing. I know, I don't look amazing. So I talk about how I look. And so and it's not just that, but it could be my situation, my family situation, anything like that. So no, drive our comedy, that's our brand. But the comedians are all over the board. But they all do bad. As far as their their content goes into a way that anyone can watch this and enjoy. Our motto is funny for everyone.
You know, this is funny, because it's kind of the difference between the jester and the clown and is in some ways, yeah. Okay. And this is deeper than I ever thought it would be. But I've had some really deep conversations with people who studied like clowning. And I'm thinking it's like, you know, I would never imagine the clown, it would be a deep philosophy, but it is, yeah, it's a surprisingly deep philosophy. So as the jester, like the old courts, it was, it was a deep concept, actually, that these were extremely talented individuals. The Jester, though, could even tease the king, you know, he can make fun of everything, right? The clown was very self deprecating,
I think, well, and then dry bar and all the comedy that we have, there's both, there's people that make fun of other people, there's people that make fun of themselves, there's comics that do both in their same act. So when they take their comedy special, they may make fun of a political situation, or a politician or celebrity, or something they saw at a grocery store, but then they also turn it back on themselves. So for the most part, and depends on the comic, it's pretty even handed. And I think if you're even handed, then you'll be probably better received?
Well, and I imagine you're probably in the sweet spot right now. Because it's hard to make fun of anything without getting in trouble. So
you know, what's interesting is that comedy, like even and we were talking off air, but like, if you look back at some of the comedy that Robin Williams did, and some of these other comics, did you go, Well, they probably wouldn't be able to get away with that today. Well, they wouldn't be able to get away with that on network TV. But now that everybody in the brother has a phone with a camera, and they also have access to the internet, you got to be careful, I've got friends that have been canceled or close to being cancelled for saying a joke that maybe wasn't even completely worked out. It was it was an idea and has come up comics, we have to work out our material somewhere. You can't just work it out in a coffee shop at a table, you've got to get some kind of a reaction, right? You need to know is this funny? And my wording it right? So if that ends up on the internet, and it's not complete, or it's not finished, or maybe you've tried it, it didn't work. So you're gonna bail on it, then you're in a position where you could get work and be in big trouble. And not just the comedy business, but how you're perceived and maybe get cancelled?
Well, you know, I looked at I was actually watching some old Robin Williams videos recently. Yeah. And I was watching I was like, you know, this is really funny, but he get into so much trouble these days. Like, you know, politically for saying this kind of stuff. Because he was big on impersonations, he do voices and stuff like that and accents and you make fun of cultures. It was really funny, but he he gets a lot of heat for that now. I mean, even like Mrs. Doubtfire? Yeah, I can't imagine that movie being made these days.
Yeah, you know, I have a friend that's an actor. I spoke to him last week. And he, if you saw him, you would know what race he was. And he used to play characters, Hispanic characters, you know, just whatever he looked, but now they're saying, What are you? Oh, really? Well, I'm Hispanic, well, then you can't play these other roles. And he's a really good actor, and he's a good person. But a lot of those opportunities. They're saying No, unless you're this person, you can't play that role. And I think that's dangerous. Well,
this consider something I've heard some people say is a lot of comedians they I think it was my might have been Seinfeld actually said that he will will not perform at universities. He won't do you want to show us for college kids or worse. So tell me about
it's the worst. I've done college gigs. And, you know, you know, kids are I mean, I sound like I'm 90, I'm not 90, I may look like a 90, but I'm not 90, but no. Kids, you know, they get out of high school, they go to college, and I've got a kid in high in college right now, he said is that we were stayed in Ogden, Utah. And a lot of times they get in there and they think they know better than everyone else. And there's the the woke culture is it's unbearable. And as a comedian, it's infuriating because you feel like you can't even tell a joke or poke poke fun at almost anyone before people would laugh or not laugh now you're getting the moment. You get that from an audience, which is it's in as a comic. It's infuriating. He's like, Oh, come on. Just just laugh or don't laugh, but you don't have to try to make some kind of a statement.
Well, it's a real humorless culture, unfortunately,
well, that's the truth that that's an absolute truth unless it fits their objective. So a lot of times what's happening now, when the universities, book comedians to come perform, they're looking for categories. They're saying, Okay, we're not bringing in someone like Seinfeld, but he's aged out of the college market anyway, as well as myself. But if the comedians that they do bring in for gigs like that, believe me, they're very specific at who they're picking
Oh, so that, like the college types they
bring, I promise you,
that's exactly what I said, Tell me what tell me about the college comedians? Well, like, what do you have to be to be the college comedian,
you have to check all the boxes, you have to check all the boxes that they want, they want certain, they want certain, it's not really necessarily their sexuality or their race, it's what they're going to say. It's what they're going to say. And it's got to be on brand, with what Hollywood and what the woke culture wants. Because if you go away from that, they'll try to shut you down, they'll try to unplug the mic on you those turned off the sound system.
Actually, tell me about it.
They will have some, if someone gets emotional to you've offended me, they will have someone go up, turn the sound system off and say Show's over,
like that. The people running the show or, or the kids,
a lot of times the people who book like there's like, I don't know, if the student association many times are the ones who decide who's going to appear on campus, it could be a speaker, right? They'll bring in people to speak on campus, and they'll say this person's conservative, or religious or atheist, whatever it was, but they have to approve whoever that is. And they do the same thing with the comic. But comics, you may see a tape of a comic, but what they do live, you never know what's going to happen. And that's part of the excitement of stand up comedy, in my opinion, is the unknown. But if that comedian decides to go off script, when there is no script, but off what they think that you should talk about, they will unplug or turn off the sound system and the show is over. Well,
this is this this seems like a real crazy like symbol of society. To me, it's like in terms of like what that just says about society where it's like, it's like he killed the clown rally. Maybe it's like you killed the humor, you're killing that little light that that kind of gets you to take things lightly. Also
free speech, which I'm a proponent of as a comedian, you you have to be, I may not like something something may not make me laugh. I mean, it may not appeal to me. But I firmly believe that any comedian or person should be able to say what they want. But when you get in certain environments, and if that environment happens to be a college campus, if you do not toe the line, believe me it is over quick.
Yeah. It feels like a kind of a Stalinist type.
Type. Yeah, it's it's not right, because I did when I was younger. And when I was touring, I would do college gigs. And I was able to do whatever material I wanted and talk about whatever I want. Not that I'm particularly controversial at all. But there were really no issues at all when I did that. But now you truly have to fit in the in the square that they'd like.
Yeah. Now let's talk about the Dave Chappelle effect. Okay. So, I mean, I was a kid I was I was in high school when the Chappelle Show was going on. And I can't probably repeat almost anything he ever said on that show without being canceled myself these days. But it was like some of the funniest stuff ever. I remember kids and you know, I think it was probably middle school in early high school for me. You know, it created like a cultural phenomenon in school, everybody was joking about it. And in a funny way, being able to joke about it created a lot of racial tolerance. Like, it felt like Dave Chappelle was like almost like single handedly ending racism in America in a funny way, you know, because because he could make fun of this kind of stuff. Yeah. And
he would point things out in a very, very funny way. And he's very smart. He's very, I mean, he's really a smart guy. So yeah, so he was able to bring people together. Now, since the world has changed. He's kind of fighting a battle. I will say this. He's very powerful. He's powerful in this business. He's got I mean, even when all the hubbub happened with Netflix, he still
won. Yeah, he did somehow still pull other
people's content like that, but he's got so much power and influence, and he's so successful, and he makes them a lot of money. And believe me, that's what it gets down to, that he's able to still fight whatever five he wants to. And I think most people didn't even watch his special in its entirety. I think that they didn't like a couple aspects of about his special and that's why they went after him like that. But some people can get away with things that other people No way can do. Dave Chappelle could get away with it, but he's out on his defense. He's earned it. I mean, he's he is a great comic. Like I said, not everything is for everybody. And that's different strokes for different folks. But he's a good there's no mistake. And he's a great con.
I'm curious that did did him kind of doing that whole series. And of course he is basically was made fun of the transgender crowd. Right, right. Yeah, here we really went into. Yeah. But did that create like a change within the comedy scene, the Dave Chappelle, like, you know, kind of break the current, so to speak
well, amongst comics, I can tell you amongst commerce, there's definitely a division. There are people that were comedians that were living with Dave Chappelle and couldn't believe he would say that they're exactly who you would think they would be. And then there's the other side, I believe, for of comedians, like myself and a lot of other comedians the same manner, I don't care, I just do what you want, everyone should be able to do whatever they want. Now, whether it's received, or or if it makes money, or no one wants it, whatever, that's let the chips fall where they may, but it should be allowed to do whatever they want to
do. Now, I'm curious for yourself, you do dry bar comedy, which is like clean, calm. I mean, I assume you started this before this whole political environment, but you're, you kind of seem to have like, you're in the perfect position, honestly, it's yes,
I think we are in a good position. Because back in the day, and you know, 70s 80s 90s, the stand up comedy that mainly that you saw, if it was on television, would be what you would see on The Tonight Show and all these other talk shows that they would have guests. And then with the the culture has changed, the world has changed not just in comedy, music, fashion, you name it everywhere, movies, any everything has changed. And I believe comedy has gone the same way. And it created a void for content, like we provide a drive our comedy, not corny comedy, not just hey, this is clean, but really funny comedy. So we produce these comedy specials. We put them out all over social media. They're everywhere. We have over 10 million followers to be in views on our content. There was an underserved audience out there that I can tell you for a fact that the agents did not believe existed, right? I'm talking about William Morris. Gersh, ICM, CA, I deal with every one of those big agencies, and they rolled their eyes a few years ago. Now those same agents are saying, Hey, hi, now tell me about what's going on. Because they see that it's working, that there is a market for that?
Well, I imagine in many ways, it also kind of protects their butts. And I could see many I could see many angles for that. I'm curious how it started though. Was it more like you wanted things for like a cleaner religious crowd initially? Or how did that start?
Not necessarily religious, but there was so just not a lot of comedy that you could watch? If you're if your kid was there that now that may not get
the job? I don't I don't they're put on most comics in front of my dad. Right? Yeah.
But I tell you what drive Are you can. So I've got kids, and I've got family members. And I know they're into watching it because I know something's not going to come up. That's gonna create an issue. And that's why we're funny for everyone. So we started doing this, you know, you've got your big names that are filling up arenas, you've got your Ryan Hamilton, who's a great friend of mine. He lives in New York City. Gaffigan Reagan, and these guys are named Bart Godsey, who lives here in Nashville, that are really funny comedians, and they don't want to be called clean. They want to be called funny. That's what a comic, I don't say, hey, this guy's claims like Nana, how about funny, let's go with that. And it is clean. But when you watch Dr. Our comedy, you won't go oh, these guys are playing, or these guys are playing to go oh, this is funny. And and it has a broad audience.
Yeah. Well, and I can imagine, too. So is it more like the corporate boards go for you? I mean, even on YouTube, I bet you can actually publish stuff without getting canceled, despite wonderful as well.
Well, I think well, yeah, I think you probably know better than I did. Cancel me all the time, right? Politically, if you say the wrong thing, and then they're also you're suspended or shut down now, but ours is on YouTube. It's on Facebook. So you can watch it for free. We have an app with 300 comedy specials on it really dry bar comedy. Plus, you can watch the app, watch it on Apple, watch it on your TV, and not have to worry that the kid walks in the room and hears something that you'd prefer they not hear.
Yeah, interesting. Now, I'm curious to have you seen the market change with this. Because as I was saying, a lot of people are complaining comedy is kind of getting killed right now. Comedy is getting killed by the woke culture. There's a lot they can't You can't make fun of anything. Everything's a sacred cow. Everything is off limits. It's really hard to get by. And it's an environment that if your, your job is basically to like make fun, right? But you're kind of you've, you've created a product that kind of gets around that so you know
what just like what you're doing. I mean, you're you're you're not on, you know, you're not on NBC. You're not on CBS, you've created your own niche and you're doing your own show. And you could do the same thing with stand up comedy, and some of the comics that may go off the beaten path and may do things that are not accepted by the mainstream, their voice will still be heard whether you like it or not, it needs to be heard. That's just like your voice needs to be heard whether people like it or not, and to get shut down is is unacceptable. And I feel the same way about once again about comedy, even if it's comedy that I. And trust me, I've seen it all I truly have. I've didn't notice long time, I'll see some algo. Alright. Okay, not my thing, but not let's shut it down. Never would I say that's a different mentality totally different. Well, especially being in this business. And I know your perspective. Being in the business you're in in broadcasting, you I'm sure have very strong opinions on certain things
on everything.
So so dry bar comedy, I booked comedians that a lot of them that I've known for years. And I say, Look, these are the guidelines, this is the brand. If you're in let's do it, let's take a special Yeah. And if you're not into it, I got you no problem at all, do your thing. But there is a huge market. And there's a market. Once again, we have over 10 million subscribers to what we're doing. And it's not because it's just claimed, it's because it's fine. It's really funny,
you know, you know, I'm kind of getting something new here, because I think you're kind of feeling the same phenomenon feeling. Which is, I mean, epic times the media I work for we're doing we're doing well, only because the mainstream media kind of committed suicide, basically, you know, they mean, like, they feel like they're offended. They take out the samurai sword and like get themselves right. I mean, I agree. And that's what they did. And I think they did the same thing with comedy as well, actually. They, they destroyed themselves. They made it so big, the big names have, they actually can't do much anymore, because they destroyed themselves
only if they toe the line for the most part. And that's where Chappelle as you mentioned earlier, he pushed back, but he's so powerful, he's able to do that. But if some regular Joe wanted to do what Chappelle is doing, and he was just a funny comedian, but not with that juice that Chappelle has, I don't know how long that they'd last or what kind of exposure they would get in any positive light.
So tell me about the growth you've seen? I mean, is it 10 million? That's pretty big. I mean, yeah, as I've been recent, has it been gradual?
No, it's been gradual, and it continues to grow. And we continue to shoot more comedy specials. Next month, we begin shooting season 10, there'll be 30. Comedians, I'll come into our studio, we shoot the comedy specials, live audience, we added them, we publish them, they're on the app, they're on YouTube, they're on Facebook, they're all over the place. And we signed a distribution deal with comedy dynamics, which is the largest distributor of all comedy, and we're part of that distribution. So now we're, it's growing. So comedy is alive, it's alive. You just have to know where to look for it. And I think we're a great place for that. A key Stubbs thanks for being on crossroads. Thank you, Josh. I love it. How
