Hello, and welcome to the Business of Architecture UK, I am your host, Ryan wielaard. And this week I had the fabulous pleasure of speaking with space and Mata, who are based in the Netherlands. I spoke with two of the founders. There's a third founder as well who wasn't present. But I did speak with Jed hack out, and Metallian Paul, third members, Sasha basil, about their fantastic and very innovative business, which really has a number of different tentacles in different areas of architectural process and design from circular area development, Vision making strategic design, master planning, urban development, spatial vision, nearing community building sustainability works. And I think what was really interested in this conversation was we spoke about the ecosystem that they have developed, which they use to deliver self initiated projects. So a little bit of background about everybody did carried out his architectural training both AT T u Delft, and CyArk. In Los Angeles, Sasha studied architecture, RW th, action, and graduated cum laude, and Martin completed his Master of Science at the Technical University of Delft, the faculty of interactive architecture. In 2009. At the height of the economic crisis, they founded space and matter, they were united by the desire to improve the world for their children and all future generations. And their journey began with water ball wohnen, and a floating neighborhood in the Dutch powder. This circular and innovative design not only won first place in national competition, but also sparked the creation of space and matter. And for over a decade, government officials, product developers and community leaders have turned to space and matter for an array of innovative solutions to complex urban challenges. So in this conversation, we delve deep into the ecosystem and the different ventures that they have. There's basically five different companies and organizations which have been founded by these guys. You've got space and matter, which is the kind of design planning aspects there's common city, which is real estate development aspect, there's crowd building, which is kind of CO living initiatives. There's modular construction company called Boom builds. And there's a nature Restoration Organization called Summa Wila. So they unify these five companies, and use them to deliver these self initiated projects. We talk a little bit about how they do that, how they navigate and find and develop projects from start to completion, we talk about how projects are funded. We talk about the art, if you like of being an architect, developer, and contractor. And I think this is for me, this is this is such an exciting proposition of self initiated projects, where architects and designers are really taking the baton, really taking control of where their work wants to be going. And having a vision for it and figuring out a way to have it executed and delivered. And also being able to enjoy the rewards of taking that kind of risk, the same of how a developer might be doing so. So sit back, relax and enjoy space and matter. This podcast is produced by Business of Architecture, a leading business consultancy for architects and design professionals. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architectures flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smart practice method.com Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how we might be able to help you please follow the link in the information. But then, Ted, welcome to the Business of Architecture. Absolute pleasure to have you here. How are you both