Black America Looks Back to Move Forward with Bob Woodson
12:05AM Aug 12, 2023
Speakers:
Scott
Darrow Miller
Dwight
John Bottimore
Luke Allen
Bob Woodson
Keywords:
black
people
bob
school
work
slavery
community
kids
inner cities
family
church
racism
hear
gave
values
mothers
country
jim crow
joseph
story
The people today, who are the racial antagonists who are trying to divide this country are doing so because on the premise that the problems of the inner cities blacks are directly related to the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. That's patently untrue. Because what we have found in our studies is that when whites were at their worst blacks were at their best.
Hi friends welcome to a very special episode of ideas have consequences the podcast of the disciple nations Alliance. On the show, we examine how our mission as Christians is to not only spread the gospel around the world to all the nations. But our mission also includes to be the hands and feet of God to transform the nations to increasingly reflect the truth, goodness and beauty of God's kingdom. Tragically, the church has largely neglected the second part of our mission. And today, most Christians have little influence on their surrounding cultures. Join us on this podcast as we rediscover what it means for each of us to disciple the nations and to create Christ honoring cultures that reflect the character of the living God.
Well, welcome again, everybody to another episode of ideas have consequences. This is the podcast of the disciple nations Alliance. My name is Scott Allen. I'm the president of the DNA and I'm joined today by co workers, John Baltimore, Luke Allen, Dwight Vogt, Darrow Miller, we have a full house. Hi, guys, Scott. And we are so excited and blessed today to have a very distinguished guest, one we've been looking forward to having on for a long time. So Bob Woodson, this is a historic day for us. We're joined today by Bob Woodson. Bob is the for those of you who don't know, Bob Woodson, he's the amongst other things. He's the founder and the president of the Woodson center, and 1776 unites as well as voices of black mothers united. Bob is a an American classic. He's a civil rights activist whose career goes back to the 1960s. And he has spent his career in an area that is close to our hearts working to see broken and impoverished communities uplifted and beginning to flourish, especially in our black inner cities. And so Bob, we're so grateful for your work. He's a major voice you hear him on a lot of podcasts and media, you can, I mean, every major media outlet I think, has had you, Bob. So we're grateful that you finally came on that the biggest one of all, which is of course, ideas have consequences of that. And Bob is author of many books, including his newest book, which is called titled Red, White and Black rescuing America's history, from revisionists and race hustlers. Right, Bob. I'd like to get us started, Bob, just by, you know, the thing that I think strikes me as I look at the landscape today, especially in the United States in the West, is just how race has become so dominant, you know, it's it's everywhere. It's, it's, I saw a graphic recently that expressed how many times the word race and racism was used in New York Times articles over the last 20 years. And the line from the 1980s 90s is fairly fairly flat, and then you get into the mid to the late 2000s. And it just shoots up like a rocket. So we're in this kind of new era of race and racism, it's just dominating the news. And I thought it would be really helpful to get your perspective, Bob is somebody who's been around the block for a long time on what's going on what's changed. Why are we in this situation we're in today? And maybe you could just start by by sharing your story a little bit, you know, where do you come from? And, and just your background, so?
Well, well, thanks for having me. I was born in 1937. At the end of the depression in low income black neighborhood in Philadelphia, we were segregated in the north. But my street was like a small village. 95% of every household had a man and a woman raising children. Elderly people could walk safely in that community without fear of being assaulted by their grandchildren. I never heard of a child being shot to death in their crib. I never heard of gunfire throughout this time, my mother, my dad died when I was nine. He was on the cutting of the First World War and he died as a result of war related wounds, but it delayed him and he later died. So she was left with a fifth grade education and five young children from nine to 17 to raise in a, a low income black neighborhood, as I said, and so it gave me an appreciation for why young people join gangs. Because when you're when you're growing up a situation like that, you join more to your peers for support, they become a surrogate family. But I was blessed if my mother equipped me with the kind of values that I chose good friends. And there were seven of us. One of you one of them became very famous. You will know who he is. He was Gordon on Sesame Street. With the afro
Yes,
well, we were in Cub Scouts together and so so we grew up in his daughter is Holly Robinson, the actress is married to Ronnie pick the football player. And 12 years when he died. It was my first trip to Hollywood, I was asked to come and eulogize him. So it was my first trip to Hollywood. But there were so that there's there was six of us left there, three is still alive. And we formed the bond. But they were a year older than I was. And so as a consequence, when they graduated, they went on to college. I was left unaffiliated. If you don't grew up in an urban community, you know what that means? It means I have no protection going to school. That mean my whole social network was gone. And so I just turned 17. And I just and I wasn't very interested in studying in school anyway, I was only going to school because my buddies were there. But I was a straight A math student. So I didn't because I didn't have to study. So when, three, three months into my 17th birthday, I quit high school, and joined the Air Force. And it was really a blessing because suddenly I was thrown into a place. I thought and believed that black people were a majority until I went to Samson Air Force Base in New York. And found myself one of seven and a squadron of 80. But listen, listening to people with with German accents, Southern accents as a whole new world. Long story short, I was the military tested me he gave me a series of diagnostic tests. And I was selected for training to go into an elite airborne airborne electronics training school in Biloxi, Mississippi, one of eight people selected for this training. And I sold us my first exposure to the south, which of course, a Polish friend of mine, we're riding off the base to go in town to have a beer. And the cab driver took us outside of the base. He said I can take you for him, but not both of you. And that's how I got introduced to segregation. And it was really raw in Mississippi. But the long story short I But then, after my training, I went to Patrick Air Force Base, where obviously the space program, flying missile test control. And again, I faced discrimination, both inside the military and out. But there were always whites, who were fair minded, and became friends so that it prevented me from generalizing about everybody. And there were always friends and, and so a lot of things happen. But in the process, I realized that a lot of blacks are being disrespected, who didn't have any more education than I did. So after two years of doing things that young people do when they're in the military, I decided to go to school, and not completed my education. And then upon discharge. I was admitted. Thank God there was not affirmative action. That would have put me directly into the University of Pennsylvania, but instead I went to a small black college at Cheney, where I met with some sympathetic professors, and helped me to learn I read my first book cover to cover at 21 starting college, and I needed that kind of remedial attention. So I could build up study skills, and but in the process of getting my undergraduate degree, I worked in a juvenile jail. Working from four to 12. I went to school from nine until three and then work from four to 12 every night every day, but I worked on this unit. There were no programs 65 Kids blocked behind two doors. When Nope. programs, but they were the same kind of kids I grew up with. And so there were five of them, I would have adopted if I had the money to do so. And but I knew how to handle myself. And one day, I took them to an unsecured area of the prison and gave them a little party because I collect money from the other guards. And without prompting, when I came to clean up the place, all of them stood up and applauded me and I had been burning bush the experience without knowing what a burning bush was at the time. But I was just overcome with emotion. And I realized that math and science is not what I need to pursue that I need to serve young people like this. So I then earned a scholarship to the University of Penn School of Social Work, and began to work on behalf of low income people. Then I'm 25, I'm in the Civil Right, leading civil rights demonstrations in Westchester, Pennsylvania. Confronting racism, but I left the movement on the issue of forced busing for integration. I was against it. Because I think the opposite of segregation is desegregation, and not integration, integration as an individual matter. But that puts me at odds with the Civil Rights leadership. But also I left it when I we picketed outside of a pharmaceutical company. And when they desegregated they hired nine black PhD chemist, and we approached them to join the movement. They said, they got the job because they were qualified. And I realized that that as Dr. King said, What good does it do to have the right to eat in a restaurant of your choosing, or living in a neighborhood if you don't have the means to exercise that right. And the civil rights movement was not conscious of the need to help people who are poor. And I realized the civil rights movement was really driven by middle class people just pursuing black middle class interest. And then, of course, so I left the movement and worked on behalf of low income people of all races. And so but then I challenged the orthodoxy of the poverty programs. And I knew that the people today, who are the racial antagonists who are trying to divide this country are doing so because on the premise that the problems of the inner cities blacks are directly related to the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, that's patently untrue. Because what we have found in our studies, is that when whites were at their worst, blacks were at their best. And that's why we did 1776 shoe nights, because we documented the fact that when, under that, following slavery, that slavery, that there there are attempts to define America by his birth defect of slavery, and Jim Crow. America is a country of redemption, that none of us should be judged by the worse than what we used to be in the past. Amen. But there are my friend defined who's driving this race narrative who's dividing us apart, who's moving us away from Content of Character, to the to the condition of our skin. And they are there elements trying to divide us America's birth defect of slavery as a bludgeon against the values of our nation. There are two types of people driving this agenda. Delano Squires, one of my young colleagues said, is to hold the nation has been driven by guilty whites who are seeking absolution from crimes they never committed. And entitled, rich blacks are seeking seeking absolution from injustice as they never experienced. And so But and so there are two again, there are people who are driving this agenda who are ill informed, and those who are ill intentioned, as far as important for us to lead with agape love. That's why we did our book that's been downloaded 110,000 times by people all over the country, because we gave examples, that the present day situation with blacks has nothing to do with history of slavery and Jim Crow. Because, as I told you, between the 1930 and 1940, Black when we when racism was enshrined in law, blacks had the highest marriage rate of any group in society because of our Christian faith. I elderly was safe and our children were secure. But all of that changed. In the 60s, the 60s poverty programs that Attack. When government when the when the affairs of the poor have a Transfer From Institutions like the church, neighborhood and families, that authority was transferred to the federal government. And there was the poverty program spent $22 trillion on programs to aid the poor and 30. Only 70% of it went to those who served the poor. And they asked which problems are fundable, not which ones are solvable. So we created a commodity out of poor people in the Civil Rights leadership, when they transitioned from being civil rights leaders, to liberal democratic policy makers in the cities, and they were the ones spending the $22 trillion.
And that's why you saw what some of the social scientists said would happen in that because there's a group about socialists who want this country to go to redistribution of income. And they use poor blacks as a tool, and that by separating work from income, thus, out of wedlock, births flourish. And crime and drug addiction. So what, what blacks made progress every decade after slavery up until the 60s. And so what has happened since the 1960s, was much more devastating than anything that Jim Crow did the first 100 years after slavery.
Bob, let me just and I, yeah, thank you for that broad kind of brushstroke of history. It's so fascinating to hear your perspective. And you know, obviously, you lived through this and you were a part of it. This isn't just your Outsider's kind of academic viewpoint. This is this is the viewpoint of somebody who's been a part of it and lived it as well. So I am sure the guys have some questions. I just want to underscore a couple things I heard they're number one, in when you were growing up, and you said it was Philadelphia, right? Yeah, Philadelphia 97%, of, of, of black marriages were intact, or together. That's amazing, especially when you consider that number today. And it's not just a problem in the black communities is a problem all over our society. But that's, that's a huge shift. You said, you know, blacks were at their best when, when whites were at their worst. Did I did I hear you say that correctly? Something along? Yeah. There's an irony in that, right. I mean, none of us want to go back to the days of Jim Crow. But what I'm what I'm what I'm hearing you say is that the outside kind of pressures on the black community because of Jim Crow, it caused the black community to have to be together, and to kind of strengthen itself in a way that once that outside pressure was gone, it didn't have to anymore. So it had a kind of a positive, you know, even though it was such a, an evil thing, it had kind of a positive influence on the black community. And now, you know, it's changed. And then you also mentioned that the a lot of the problems that the black community are facing today aren't a legacy of slavery, or Jim Crow, that of the war on poverty. And just this shift in kind of the concern or the care for poor from families and local churches, especially to the government, and that had a devastating influence on it might kind of getting those some of those broad brushstrokes, correct, Bob,
it is. But you see, this is what happened, that what the left has done is appropriated the legacy of in their efforts to so called promote justice for blacks. They use our past, but then they migrate like they did in in Minnesota, where they say, Well, there we are, we're helping blacks achieve justice. And what is the first thing they do they migrate from social justice to a tax on a nuclear family and the burning of the flag, right? So that the so called Social Justice Warriors are attacking the very foundational values and principles, that explains black ability to survive slavery and Jim Crow. It was our church. Only 10% of blacks after slavery could read or write. Because our churches stepped up and set up Sabbath schools. That number increased to 70% and less than 40 years, when the Freedmen's Bureau sent workers to say, he said, the black church is already doing, there's nothing we can do. The black church is doing it. And so we didn't have insurance. So the black church had various societies where you would put money only for your burial. Well, at Gaston, a sixth grade entrepreneur in Alabama collected these funds and created a black insurance company that capitalize a lot of our businesses. A place like Chicago, that is a real trouble place today. In 1919, we had 731 black owned businesses with 100 million in real estate assets just in the Bronxville section. And the out of wedlock births was under 9%.
And all of that history of black people kind of empowering themselves. And it's really remarkable history. I you know, we work all over the world. And, you know, we often draw on the stories of black Americans like George Washington Carver is one that we draw on a lot. Because there was such amazing things happening kind of right out of slavery, like you're talking about these stories that are incredibly powerful. They're being completely whitewashed today, right? The effort is to completely erase that history. And it's just to me, it's just such a crime, because it's this amazing legacy of a community that was, you know, treated unbelievably horribly, but yet surviving and flourishing, John, go ahead. Yeah,
yeah, there's been such a replacement of the beautiful examples of responsibility and agency Bob, that you talk about here, and to try to replace those with grievance and victimhood. And all that is doing is inhibiting or eliminating that, that opportunity to really show that that agency, many of our audience have never heard the story of Elijah McCoy. So if you don't mind, telling that quickly to our audience, that they would love to hear that because they know the saying they don't they just simply don't know the beautiful story of his responsibility and hard work.
Yeah, Malachi McCoy was born to fugitive slave parents, they escaped slavery. And he was educated in Canada and in Scotland as an engineer. But he came back to Chicago in the mid 1848. To secure job with with the Chicago railroad, because he was black. He was given the worst, most dangerous job of oiling the wheels on the train. But he used that opportunity to invent a box that would cover it that would automatically lubricate the wheels. And he became rich, and he had about 70 patents. Well, a lot of people started to develop knockoff machines. But the owner said, No, we want the real McLaury
No kidding. That's so interesting, huh? Now there's one other
character that I think you should know about is Robert Smalls. He was born in something off Carolina, and was working on on a on a Confederate supply ship. And he commandeered that shipment. The captain went for dinner, and picked up six members of his family and they maneuvered past five garrison and turned it over to the Union navy. He was celebrated and met with President Lincoln. And it enabled, it persuaded Lincoln to let blacks fight in the war. After the war was over, he became a wealthy businessman, a member of Congress purchase a plantation on which he was a slave, and took him to destitute family of the slave master, and allow the mother to sleep in her bedroom because she was delusional. That is a tremendous act of radical grace. Absolutely.
Wow, what a story. Man,
and there are 20 Such people who were born slaves who died millionaires and bought out a couple of them purchase a plantation they wish they were slaves. Those Those are stories of resilience.
Absolutely. And perseverance. Yeah, those are the kinds of stories that lead people to come out of poverty when they hear those things because they realize what's possible and, and the potential that the human being has even in the in the space of incredible persecution. Bob, is that part of what you're doing right now with 1776 unites, it's really collecting and making sure that these stories don't die, right are aren't completely whitewashed out of our history, right. Is that part of it?
Yes. We, we believe that we agree with 1619 that we have under told the story of slavery. And that should be told
is the 1619 project.
Yeah, like a project but we said also the In other words, I call them crucifixion, just people who just stop at the crucifixion. That's not resurrection is. But you got to know the importance of resurrection by knowing about the crucifixion. But what people do, who are naysayers We're trying to destroy, they only talk about crucifixion. They only talk about an assessment of our event, if I were to assess everybody on this call and said, How much card debt that you have mortgages, and then I stopped there and said, These people are in bad shape. The only way that I can tell what your net worth is, is that by looking at your assets, and compare them to your liabilities, well, that's how we have to look at the human condition. We have to look at people's assets, along with their liabilities. And then I'll encourage them to do more of what they do. So what what the Western Center does, is the same spirit of entrepreneurship, the same spirit that that existed back in slavery and Jim Crow still exists today in the community in what we call Josef's. The I look at the Joseph from the Bible as the model for what the center does. If it wasn't for the wealthy, discerning Pharaoh, we wouldn't know about Joseph. But Pharaoh had to be secure in himself enough to look beyond his power and his wealth, and acknowledge that he needed help from the most unlikely source, a 31 year old uneducated Hebrew. So Pharaoh had the power and the influence. But Joseph had the testimony. And the two of them came together, which meant that Joseph had to forgive the family that betrayed him, and also forgive the Egyptians that enslaved him. So that's an act of radical grace. And Joseph had succumb to bitterness because of how he was treated. God could not have used him. Yeah, right. So there are practical consequences of embracing these these, these principles. Yeah, so we use that as a model for recovering the inner cities that we looked for Pharaoh's to help provide the kind of financial support and partnership with our Josephs. But Joseph's need more than just money, they need managerial skills, they need whatnot. And so we go into drug infested crime ridden neighborhoods, and we look for those Josef's. There are two types. The Josef's who were fallen, who were drug addicts, who were prostitutes, but to God's grace, they became redeemed. And therefore there are powerful witnesses to others, that redemption is available to them. And the other type of Josephs are the ones that are there that never wrote a stone stolen by, but who's still suffering the conditions. So the two of them become the resources, the the renewal of the cities. And what the center has done, is we've come in and found some of these Josef's, and they've been helping 10 people. We give them the money and the technical support so they can expand from helping 10 to help 100 and from 100 1000. So we are rebuilding the moral and spiritual infrastructure of these communities by helping into redemption of individuals. So they can sow the seeds of redemption and renewal in these communities.
Such a beautiful strategy. Are you are you heard what you're seeing? Are you seeing success through the strategies just a strategy?
Yes, you can go on 60 minutes and see one group that we've worked with in the 80s. If you go and sit in YouTube and look up Bertha Gilkey, if you look at that segment, I work closely with the producers of 60 minutes. We have around four or five examples like this. In fact, there's one place right now that we're trying to hold up his Piney Woods schools. It's 115 year old Christian boarding school that takes only kids from the most deprived families. 96% of them go on to college. Wow. Compared to LeBron James's school in Akron, where all this money and the kids not a single eighth grader could pass a basic math exam.
Yeah, just pause on that for a second just by way of compare and contrast. Bob, I didn't know about LeBron James's school until just this weekend. I literally read a story about it and its failure. What Why do you think in what is the name of the school LeBron James is school there in Akron, Ohio. Is it a Cleveland?
i It's called i promise i prize.
But it's kind of been a failure. What Why is that Bob? What, you know, obviously, there's no shortage of money there. I mean, he's got as much money as you could want.
Because they have gotten away from the fundamentals of faith. You know, tiny Wood is a face centered school. Kids come there as mandatory chapel mandatory work. They'll no cell phones. And they're given a rigorous academic background. What you won't find discusses what their pronouns are.
Yeah, yep. Yeah. Okay. When schools like
LeBron James, they've given all of the latest woke, lessons, everything but how to read, it will be helpful if they could teach kids to, to spell transgender.
Well, and if it's if it's if it's emphasizing kind of this new woke ideology, I'm sure it also emphasizes just this critical issue of, of, you know, you're a victim, right? And whenever you think I'm a victim, then I have no agency, somebody else is to blame for my circumstances. And when when that becomes a mindset, it's almost impossible to move forward, you know, either to graduate or anything, you know, because it's somebody else's problem. So it's just such a destructive idea. So you're, you're, you're challenging that idea.
It's insulting. In fact, it's an embrace of white supremacy for anybody to say that black people can't achieve until white people give them permission. That's white supremacy. Well, I was. I was in a debate with Hawk Newman, the head of Black Lives Matter in New York. And I said to him, you know, doing segue segregation, when racism was enshrined in law, we have five black high schools, in our urban centers, would use textbooks, crumbling buildings, half the budget of white schools, every one of them out tested white schools in the same cities. If we could achieve that, then in those same schools, today, less than 10% of the kids are reading at grade level. So how can you say racism? is the cause of that, but we have to confront them now? Not with a counter argument. But with fact based truths? Yeah, yeah. The other way you neutralize them is, I don't have them argue with Bob Watson, I believe that experience will always trump an argument. And a witness is more powerful than an advocate. So I just say, so if you you, you have the race grievance approach, show me your kids who are achieving under your race grievance agenda. And I will show you the kids who are achieving under my faith based agenda at the Piney Woods school.
So true, so true, one of our partners and look and tell us if it's okay to mention that or not. But one of our partners who works in this type of ministry, has said the opposite of racism is not anti racism. The opposite of racism is righteousness. And, and so that's such a, that's such a beautiful thing that that can unlock the kinds of truth and the kind of agency and the family that stands behind it and all that. What's your comment on that?
Absolutely correct. But also, I think one of the ways that we persuade is the way Jesus did. I said that Jesus and Joe Lewis had something in common. Are you gonna say, What's this? What does? John Lewis fought at a time when his opponents were racist? The people watching him were and the referees and the judges, though, Joe Lewis said in the presence of those challenges, don't trust your faith to a decision knock him out. Jesus. Jesus did the same thing when the when the service of John the Baptist came to him and said, Are you the one that we seek another? Jesus didn't offer a resume? He healed in their presence and say, Go tell him what you saw. And that's what we at the Woodson center that's how we confront naysayers or people who are coming in. We make them confront the experience. I said, Here are 10 people who were drug addicted last year. They're drug free now. Don't me you're 10 who are drug free, Christ eliminate them, ask them what delivered them.
How do you The naysayers respond to what you're doing. And when you like you said a few minutes ago you were debating this flag. Yeah. How do they respond to you?
They just stumbled over themselves. They didn't know what to do. You can go look at on YouTube. He just stumbled, they said, I said, so he said, Well, you know, institutional racism. I said, What do you mean? So in other words, white people can ride pass a black school that is run by a black school board, principal and teachers and points, some kind of remote control device in there to cause them to miss educate our children. Is that what you tell him? Of course, he's laughs No, they don't have an argument. They're hoping that I will be silenced. But they know that they don't know the words, in order to argue with me, you have to argue with the 3000 grassroots leaders that we support and 39 states, they're black, they're white. When we have our gatherings retreats in the last 40 years, racial animus never came up one time, you know why? Because 80% of my closest friends have letters in front of their names their ex something. And they are more concerned about explaining how they overcame their brokenness. Because you're not a white junkie, or black junkie, you're just a junkie. That's what they tell you. And so when you come together, it's amazing how, when the left and the people who are trying to destroy this country, when you confront them with evidence of your faith, when you show them witnesses of that faith, when you recount the experiences undertaken by people of faith, it's hard for them to challenge it.
But Bob, this has been my observation, they, they don't actually want to see these people's lives change for the better. You know, they're that's not really their goal. It's, it's to kind of weaponize this issue for this other agenda that they've got, which is tearing our country down. Often, I think it's kind of a socialist agenda, isn't it? It's good. It's driving it. So, you know, Jesus said, you talked about Jesus, he said, buy their fruit, right, you'll know them. And that's what that's the approach you're taking Bob, look at the fruit. And you know, you can't argue with that fruit. This is real change. This is real transformation and people's lives based on the power of the Holy Spirit and you know, biblical principles being put into practice. If you look at Black Lives Matter, now we can see this has been around now for a while we can see the fruit, right, the fount, the three foot, the three founders have basically just used it as a platform to enrich themselves, right. And their families. It's little, there's a lot of graft, but you don't see any uplift in the black community as a result of that black lives matter. Movement. Right? At the same time, Bobby, there's still so many of our friends, fellow Christians, especially who still are supportive of Black Lives Matter, and just that larger narrative, they just have bought into it completely. And they feel like, you know, if you don't agree, you know, you're you're not seeing things truly are correctly. How do you challenge people's? What, what's the what, what are ways that you found most effective a challenge and getting them to kind of question their assumptions about this dominant race narrative, that they are just convinced that is true. And
I think first of all, you have to approach them in the spirit of agape love. Under agape love, you assume that people are misguided, and not ill intentioned. And so your goal then is not to humiliate them or to insult them to change their hearts. I change I attempt to change their hearts not by offering them a superior argument, by take them by the hand and show them the consequence. And the majesty of somebody who was who was broken and then had become transformed. And I bring them in touch with them and then say, ask them what changed them. And they will tell you it was the values that I embraced that change me. And then that separates them from the naysayers the naysayers are the people. So it is important though, to operate on the assumption that people are misguided. But but you must do more than just argue with them. You must show them examples. That's why that is I always tell my trouble with conservative policymakers is that all they're offering is argue That's, instead of leaving their their offices and going out into the communities, and a lot of Christians are guilty of this, too, is that the kind of help they offer is humiliating to the people that they're serving. They don't understand that, that help must be given with grace. We must do it in a way that that enables a person I'll give me an example that I use all the time. There was a, it was a face centered women's shelter. And every Christmas the volunteers would collect toys and give it to the kids on a Christmas party. Everyone was happy except the mothers. So the second year, Executive Director, collected the toys and gave the mothers an opportunity to volunteer and earn toy vouchers. So the moms babysat, they clean they did various tasks throughout the year for which they will be given toy vouchers. And when Christmas came, it was the mothers who shopped for their own children. And then at the Christmas party, it was the mothers who gave the toys to the children. I knew Jeb Bush, when I advised him when he ran a second time. I connected him with a with a named my daughter. She's like a Mother Teresa, public housing, got hundreds of kids whose lives she touched. He said, I'm going to go and take my dogs, kids to my house to swim down to Disney World. I said, I don't want you to do that. You should do it in partnership with my daughter. You enable her to do the things that you want to do with those kids. So he went there, him and his wife, and said, Mom thought how can we take your kids to my house to swim, he recruited some others mothers. And so when the kids came back, she said, My daughter and these nice people took us. These are very small things. But they're evidence of a much larger principle that you can injure somebody with the helping hand. It's better to go in assuming that there's already agency and capacity there. And what you're seeking to do is augment that wishes there.
Yeah, Bob, the way that we talked about what you're describing, as we just talked about treating people as human beings. In other words, a human being is not an animal, an animal you feed, right, you just you know, you feed your livestock, human beings are made differently, right. And, you know, we were made to Yeah, make choices. We have freedom, we have disability to work, and when that's not recognized or acknowledged, you know, it's dehumanizing, actually. So I that's what I hear you saying. And I just completely agree with that we've we've had so many dehumanizing approaches to to our work with people that are poor and struggling. So
you see a lot of people, Christians, too, they believe the only way that they can relate to and be and play a role in helping poor people is to sacrifice their values. If I want to help black people, that means I've got to accept that that somehow my values have to be dumbed down. Because a lot of the activists who are we're running a guilt trip on white folks rely on guilt. Yes, but I tell people do not establish relationships with people whose values are hostile to your own. Whether you are cooperation, a church or anyone do not enter into a relationship with any group who does not share your values. There are enough around who do but if you do, and, and those kinds of corrupt relationships, the people who are legitimate in those communities see you doing so. And you become invalid to them. Because they say, why are you empowering the enemies of us? Does that make any sense to you?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
You're validating you're validating the wrong principles and values by establishing relations, funding relationships or partner relationships.
And yet, Bob that's going on so often now. In fact, I mean, this it's become such a juggernaut, this this, this ideology, this narrative that's using arrays, you know, corporations and everyone is involved in it's taken such a deep route. Give us some hope Bob, do you do you see this? have, you know continuing to gain strength upon strength? Or do you see this kind of fading? Where give us a sense of where, you know, what do you see the future holding? Do you see the advocates of this counter narrative that you're you're championing this biblical counter narrative which is rooted in our own history as you so well said? Do you see it having a making a comeback? What are your thoughts? Yes, and
I experienced when 1619 When Nicole Jones published her her work. And we published our since they were using the black community as a as a bludgeon against the values of our country. We thought the messenger has to also be black. And the people we recruited, were offering not just a counter argument, but a counter narrative. That's inspirational and aspirational. Pamela Cole Jones is curriculum that developers downloaded 14,000 times. Our books sold out within three weeks on Amazon. And so far, we develop a curriculum, which has been downloaded 110,000 times and 50 states.
Now this is the book red, white and black. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, we
have free school curriculum that has been developed from it. That's available, and it is amazing. There is a thirst in it.
So so you're you're you're hopeful, Bob, I mean, you see this really gaining momentum and gaining ground. I mean, not you don't hear that, of course, in the in the media naturally. But what you're seeing is, that's where the bulk of the American people are. And they're hungry for this. And it's shown up by the numbers there in terms of both your book and your curriculum. Yeah, that's, that's so encouraging. So tomorrow,
I'm on my way to Utah, I'm taking my team of five people, we're going to be spent three days there, I'm meeting with the head of the, of the of the Senate, all the leaders of the Senate, the house, five, presidents of universities, civic groups, they all are looking for the head of the LDS. All of them are looking for alternative ways to push back against the assault on our country. That's why we can't recruit an inner city. And again, the number is 80% of black Americans are against defund the police, you would know that 60% of blacks polled said that racial animus is not a barrier to their success. But you wouldn't know that because mainstream media only reports the race hustlers. And every day more blacks killed in one year than were killed in 50 years of the Klan. Wow. But you would never know that. Wow. And so but, but I am saying that, but the challenge is, we're trying to get the pharaohs, people with high net, we need to invest as heavily into Black Lives Matter is able to raise $90 million. If we have a fraction of that to invest into Piney Woods school, we really need a ground game, we need to have something that as the moral equivalent of a George Floyd. That may sound weird. But we need something on the positive side where we're trying to raise $20 million. So we can go to the Piney Woods school and redo the dormitories and help them for 50 kids up a million dollars will support 50 Kids saving them from the inner city coming and raising, we need to have something like that to showcase and have everybody it will draw their attention. Unfortunately, the amount of money we invest in things confers authority and validation. And that's why we're trying to raise money in the Joseph fun. So we can make such a statement like that. But we got to do something beyond incremental instrumentalism.
So you're looking to make a kind of a bigger statement. Yeah, that but boy, it's hard isn't it to break out in this in this climate where kind of the cultural heights are, are so kind of dominate dominantly commanded by people that are pushing the other narrative. But Bob, if people want to get behind that work financially, or in other ways, what how did they do that? What's what's a way of connecting to what's
in center? And what's your what's your.org?
Wisdom? center.org.org? Yes, yeah. And I just want to encourage our listeners if you want to see real positive change in the if you want to see and this is such a broken community, and we all have a heart for seeing broken communities thriving and prospering flourishing. You know, I just agree with Bob You've got to get behind organizations that share biblical values and principles, and not behind those that don't. And I just want to really recommend and, and, you know, encourage you to take a good look at the Woodson center and this good work that you're doing Bob and getting behind it. So we can all be on the same team kind of pushing together, especially in the churches, if we could get all of our churches kind of kind of lined up in the right way, I think we could make a difference. Did Bob Do you see that in the black church? You know, are you getting Are you getting greater advocacy and help from from predominantly black churches because that was such a huge part of the, of the goodness of the black community was the strength of the church, you know, historically,
the larger the church, the more they're removed from reality. And okay, a lot of a lot of our grassroots leaders, our pastors or their ministers, and most of them are ex junkie, drug addicts and drug dealers. They have been saved by Christ and they witness. So, but I'm hopeful, but there are some mega fests like Reverend Joy Floyd flake in Queens, AR Bernard in Brooklyn, who's rebuilding a whole community there. There are quite a few passes around her lust later of lust, who are rebuilding humanity using the turret as an engine of renewal, praise God, but they're isolated. So what the Western Center tries to do is I want to bring them to into a community of people. That's what we're with. We are bringing people together, who are oriented. At our at our gatherings, we have a staple in our in our procedures, no one's allowed to bring up a problem unless you have a solution.
And bobbins around the game, as you said earlier, it's a ground game. It's not about, you know, big, big swoop ends and swoop out. It's about a ground game where you're there for the long haul, and you want to partner for the long haul. And it's so important.
I think to Bob, you know, the principle of the mustard seed is very important on these kinds of things. Because it's often out of sight, you know, it doesn't nobody sees it, you don't get a lot of attention or glory for it and doesn't cost a lot of money. It is very small. And yeah, Jesus says that's how the Kingdom of God advances, right? Because I think rows and how it grows and the time that it takes to grows, grow is often in his hands. But it grows. And so just there's no you know, is one of our friends. Hein Van Wyck, from South Africa is fond of saying, you know, we never underestimate the day of small beginnings right? We don't we don't you know, any these small things that we do are not small in God's sight. So
we need more disciples. You know, it's fine to have Congress but we need disciples. Amen. That's that's not grassroots leaders are disciple.
Team. As we wrap up, I'd love to just open the floor to any kind of final questions that you would have for Bob or comments.
I just want to say how thankful I am for you, Babak. Like I say, we ran into each other 25 or 30 years ago, when you're in Phoenix. I remember. You said some things there that were paradigm shifting in my life and thinking and we haven't seen each other since but I've just so admired what God has done through your life and in your life over these years in the hope you're bringing in. I just, I just want to thank you for that, sir.
A man Thank you.
He's coming around for some reason.
Yeah, Bob, and we've we've been exploring ways that the DNA can be you know, affiliated or partners supporting, we just want to lock out lock arms with you just as like minded like hearted people in your cause. And we look forward to continuing to explore ways that we can do that. I mean, it's a small way, just having you on this podcast, but it's wonderful. So we really appreciate you taking the time to do it, Dwight, any thoughts or questions from you? Before we wrap up? You've been kind of quiet there, and I'm sure you've got some thoughts.
I'm with Darrell ball, I just want to encourage you. You're, you know, you're longing years is a long experience. And it seems like for whatever reason, God is magnifying your voice. And so I encourage you to stay with that as long as you can. I, I was at the Coulson center of Wilberforce meeting three years ago, I think where they recognize you and I was like, who's Bob Woodson, you know, oh, that's Bob Woodson. And now I know who Bob was in this, you know, Dr. Phil or whatever, 60 minutes, but I just encourage you to, you know, keep going, you know, and I really appreciate you really do I really do
Yes, indeed.
Thank you. Well, Bob, on behalf of the whole team, thanks for taking time to be with us today. And may God just really bless your work for His kingdom. And, Lord, Lord, just be with you and strengthen you. So thanks. Thanks again for for your work. And for all of those who are listening today. We appreciate you. tuning in to another episode of ideas have consequences. This the podcast of the disciple missions Alliance.
Thank you for listening to this interview with Bob Woodson. If you'd like to learn more about Mr. Woodson, the Woodson center 1776 unites or any of his books, all of the resources and ministries mentioned this episode will be linked in the episode landing page. And you can find that page in the show notes. I would also encourage you to go and do your own research on Mr. Woodson and the solutions to inner city corruption, poverty and violence that he is proposing. There is a plethora of talks, debates, articles and commentaries from Woodson out there and looking into them will be time well spent. The ideas have consequences podcast is brought to you by the disciple nations Alliance. To learn more about our ministry you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube or on our website, which is disciple nations.org. Thanks again for listening and we hope you're able to join us here next week on ideas have consequences.