The Changed Podcast #48 Transcript - Dr. Ian Brooks
3:36PM Sep 16, 2021
Dr. Ian Brooks
My guest today started off working in a clinical psych ward. Now, after more than 25 years applying his expertise helping people have transformations in other contexts, including corporate consulting. He is the author of Intention, Building Capabilities to Transform Your Story, which integrates research and personal journey. I'm talking with Dr. Ian Brooks. I'm Aden Nepom. And this is the change podcast.
It's nice to have you here Ian. Should I call you doctor? Should I call you Mr. Brooks? Thanks for being here. I have so many questions based on just your history, you have such an interesting history. So you worked in a clinical psych ward? like, Are you talking about like inside our, our prison system?
Well, actually, some people did come from our prisons, other people were brought in by their, by their families to accident in a lockdown ward so it was a 14 was supposed to be a 14 day lockdown facility where the only way to get in and out, outside of handcuffs or being brought in by your family, was through with a key. And so in that context, people brought in straight off the street. Some typically dealing with those who are mentally disabled, or obviously have a mental imbalance of which they needed to be brought in and brought down from their highs, recalibrated doing therapy, as well as readjusting their medicine. So a very, very interesting experience across the board, you really work with that population from a psychology perspective, both from a coaching as well as just a day to day How can we just be better and getting it back? reintegrated.
Wow. How long did you do that?
I did that for two years. So I've worked with an adult population. So having adults come in and doing that for two years. So I had an opportunity to not only do their intake, but also work with them from a context of their group coaching and individual, one on one therapy, and even working with their families as we tried to reintegrate them back in to society. So definitely an interesting experience and one that I don't, I won't ever forget, but hope I'd never go back to.
You're done. You're done with that one. That's good. Yeah, I'm super curious as a so you know, my dad's a doctor. And one of the things that we talked we've talked about often is as consultants, and that his experience as a practitioner, is the challenge in getting your patients or in my case, my clients to move forward to take action on recommendations, right. So you're like, this is what needs to happen next, here's your homework. Was that more or less difficult for you in that context? Like what I I'm super curious, in a lockdown Ward, is there more buy in because people have to to get out? Or...
Yeah, it was a lot more buy in within the context of that lockdown facility because they weren't getting out any way because they had to pass through myself or other individuals who were looking over my work, as well as the the actual psychiatrists who was actually prescribing medicine and so forth. So that way, they had to pass certain tests, and both from a conversation standpoint, or other, how are they integrating with other patients etc, to before they were actually discharged. So that buy in they could get buy in within that, within the confines of of that those 14 days, potentially even longer staying in that facility. But as we extended that beyond to their actual environments, that buy in was a lot harder in Wayne. And that really, really speaks to that transitional point that I think we all experience from a change perspective, that if we within the ward context, you have 14 days within you're locked in, you're doing intentional focus across that entire time, and every day is scripted and dictated. But we get back out into our environments, our whole structure is very fluid. It's what we've put up to keep ourselves safe. So think about our people, places and things that really establish the foundation of who we are. That all goes out the window. So while it was fun to your question, or easy, or easier, within the confines of those 14 days, and then that ward, a lot more difficult as they went back and integrated to society.
What a trip. What did I mean? How do you define so I mean, you talked a little bit about how that relates to change because that is you changing behavior changing habits change is 100% involved. How do you define change? What's your working definition?
Sure. My working definition is really really separating out change from transformation. So changes I can get someone to do something one day, that particular moment in time, and taking very targeted steps to do something different, that's a lot different than transformation, which I think a lot of people are really reaching for. And that is building it into your fabric of who you are more so in a integration perspective, so it's now part of my people, places and things as part of my routines as part of how I think versus what's interjected into me, no different than what people are in a ward perspective, which that speaks to a moment in time that I'm fine right here right now. And there's a there's a compliment in marriage between change in those multiple steps and moments that integrate into transformations over time. And so that's really where I see change, and then extending that to transformation for me, as we all are looking for that transformative effort. But we tend to get stuck on those changes in the moment.
Right. That's, that's interesting. That's I think that's a really cool distinction to make, like, in order to achieve transformation, you got to make changes, but you don't have to be transformed in order to change something. It's the chicken and egg.
It's pretty clear here. One of them is definitely first.
Yeah, I think I think so.
A ridiculous analogy I tried to make
a chicken and egg. But I think when we think about change, it's in that moment, it's like, what can I do right now, because we think about it and draw and write about it. And here, it's like, I got a pain or I want to do this one thing. And if I can do this one thing, everything goes the solved, so I just changed now I don't have to worry about it. I'm done. That's a lot different narrative than saying, I truly transformed and now it's going from that chicken and egg. I'm no longer an egg, I am now a chicken. And you're not going back to being an egg. That's just not happening unless you know, it is. So there's a great analogy in that because that is transformative.
I wonder if a lot of people talk about being afraid of change. I wonder if what they're really saying is they're afraid of transformation?
I really think so. I think it's a I've never heard it put in that context. But I think it's something that needs to be explored more, because I do think it's about that transformation. And more specifically, when I think about that fear is now I have to do this every single day. Now I have to constantly do this, because now it's that vulnerable place that I'm in now isn't just doing the one time now I have to do it all the time. And we get tired, right? We want to be like I'm done. Like, let's be clear. I did this good. right back to where I am where I was right. I'm good.
Okay, so we're really talking about our behaviors we're talking about, we're doing something different consistently that both mean success, failure, learning, adjusting, and then consistently moving forward. And then that's, but I think then, would you describe that fear of, I've got to do this all the time. Now, it's expectation that I now have to do this. Yeah, it's interesting.
I mean, it, it makes me think of, you know, any of the really like well known books on changing habits talk about like the your belief in your ability to do it. And I'm always reminded of a good friend of mine, who quit smoking the easiest way in the whole wide world, which is she just changed how she identified which is also simultaneously like the hardest way in the whole wide world. She was like, I'll just transform and then the change just is inherent. You know, she was like, instead of saying, I'm trying to quit more smoking, or I'm not smoking anymore, or I'm not smoking right now, she just said, I'm not a smoker. I don't smoke. Even though yesterday, she was a smoker, but today, I'm not a smoker. And she hasn't picked up a cigarette since. And you know what, she doesn't even miss it. It's like because she's not a smoker smoker would probably miss smoking, but she's not a smoker. She has other things to think about.
That's the power of the mind. Sometimes she was like, Oh, I'm no longer gonna do this. I'm not I'm not a smoker. So that's what's gonna happen. I know, I remember as a kid very distinctly, saying to myself, I'm not gonna cry ever again. I'm not gonna cry.
And I was thinking about that it more recently, around the power of the mind. And in that moment, thinking, however, I got to that solution, whatever that solution was, it wasn't about how I was crying. And the reason I was crying, it was like, I'm no longer crying. Because that was the
I have so many questions about that. But I'm not a psychologist.
I'll delve into it. I remember cuz my parents were fighting and I forgot what they were fighting about. But I remember just crying. I was like, I'm in and obviously when you cry, it can be very exhausting. And I've just remember I'm tired of being
I'm just tired to be exhausted. That's it. You're not crying anymore. I'm tired. I don't want to feel like this anymore. And if this is what crying gets me, I'm not gonna do it. It is not it's not worth it. There's no winning in this and as a child as a kid thinking like that came with that same level of thought, guess what, I haven't cried, I can probably count on one hand, maybe minus fingers, how many times I've cried since. And it's a very indicative idea as what you just described as quitting smoking. It's like the power of the mind. Now, mind you, your friend is an adult well, and I'm describing myself as a child making that decision that has carried over into adulthood, um, and it's very, but the power of the mind is very interesting. And as we think about fear, and the reasons why we don't do certain things, or even potentially the reasons we do, it's very interesting context as in specifically, this idea of change. Because we do things up quite a bit out of fear, not necessarily providing the context around, how do we actually move forward?
I'm curious what your personal relationship is. So you helped a lot of people but also your a people, too. So what is your relationship with change? Do you get excited about changing things up? I have, how many times have you transformed? Are you are you transforming again, like what's, what's your relationship to the content on a personal level?
On a personal level, I do it all the time. Now, others might have a disagreement with that, but it's always in the eyes of the person. And actually, in my book, Intention I actually talk about my own growth, and evolution, as I experienced it, even just writing it of the person who I thought I was, and the person of whom I am evolving to become. And let me give an example, when I was actually, you know, this book has been written, this is a second version of this book. But the first one has actually seeing the light of day, the first version was an audio book. And I was like, Okay, let me go and do the audiobook recording. Now, mind you, I'd never written a book before, I had never done an audio book before. Yeah, quite frankly, I'd never actually even put the book, The only people who had actually read the book, were my editor, and a friend of mine. So I was really saying it out loud for anybody. And so then as a as a person, who isn't much into social media, and so forth, but getting there, and one of my growth opportunities was to actually extend myself and one reason why I wanted to do the audiobook to really push myself in, in real time. And boy, did I, um, it was a two day recording, but that first day was so draining, just to read words, just to hear myself, just it's like when I say what I think I said, and then I'm judging myself, right? Because that's the natural inclination. When you go into cage, no expectation like,
oh, oh, and judging is so exhausting. If you want to feel tired, just spend some time and self judgment.
And I tell you, I've got to that first day and bless, bless the producers and the team that was helping me because they really coached me through that first day. And after that first day, I just sat on the beach, and I just sat there, and I actually I went to a bar that was on the beach, and I just sat there with a drink like, Man, I'm tired. And the next day, you know, I got re energized, and did it again. But the remaining portions of the of the script, and it went a lot better. From that experience, and then subsequently listening to myself. Actually, from an auditing standpoint, listening to it from the tone, listening to it from the content, listening to it, as though I'm judging and no different than I would judge anything else be from the lens of a consultant in health care. I was doing the same thing to myself as though as a third person. And I was like, Oh, I can't say I can't publish this. There's no way in the world I would ever give this to anybody, I hope no one ever hears. But what that experience from that recording, is as it was draining, I do it took me a while to listen to all the portions, that audiobook. What it afforded me to do is do two things. It allowed me to sit down and say, what's my priority? Is this something I really want to do? It's either yes or no, it's not maybe you don't just step into this, that answer's yes. Then we need to go, we need to do something different. Now what's going to be that difference? So I scrapped the entire book, that experience made allowed me to become the author of the book needed, in a way to be truly transparent, to be still be authentic to myself in owning my voice, in a way that now intention, I believe, has gotten there to the stories and even just my acknowledgement of that transformative process. So as the saying goes, I'm not only a spokesperson or the author in this case, I'm also a client because I I look at this book, and And I smile because I know what it took to get there. And in that process, and even just the self exploration that it has continues to afford me in a way that I could never, never have experienced or even anticipated. So
That's all pretty exciting and cool. I mean, yeah, really, they're, in listening to you describe the process of wanting to write a book going for a project scrapping the project writing this current book, it makes me think very much of, I often think about, when we change ourselves to the discomfort involved, and really having that transformation. So I think about, like, I have this picture, I'll just draw it with my hands for you. But it's maybe, you know, listeners are familiar with this already. But it's like, down here is comfort town, this is where we live, this is everything that's comfortable now and doesn't necessarily serve us these can be all kinds of behaviors, expectations, self judgment, all that stuff that's really familiar. It's like nasty, smelly sweat pants, but we hang out there. And we see up there where like, the peak of discovery lies ahead. That's where all the cool stuff is. That's where like, the ideal me probably hangs out. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna head out a comfort zone, I'm gonna head up the hill. But we get into this uncomfortable territory, which is actually bigger than you expect. A lot of people head into that uncomfortable territory. And they're like, No, no, I didn't bring enough snacks, and they turn back. And then they live in comfort town for a while longer. So I just was imagining this moment of like, bleaah, that discomfort, this isn't going the way I wanted to go. And you had a choice, you were like, I could just scrap this and really just scrap it, or I can regroup, take stock of my supplies, put my back my back on and keep hiking. And so you know, I think I think that's really kind of a cool journey. And it's inspiring to me, because you know, I haven't put a book out there. So on a selfish note, I'm like, but I could climb that mountain, I can do it.
And I'm sure you could and in reality, to what you just described as it's, we know, we're going to face challenges, and we cognitively know what's going to happen, like, okay, we know we're gonna write and I got this, right. The moment you like, Oh, wow. Um, this is a lot. Yeah, a lot. Action wise, but also we touched on is that emotional side, because we often judge based off of what we see, with our eyes that what's in our hands. And so we offer nourishment based on that object. And it's hard to offer judgment on how we feel. And then going back to our previous conversation on fear. That's what captures us. It's like, it's like the Wiley Coyote effect. It's like you try one thing one time it fails. Oh, I'm not doing that again. Because I'm scared now. It's like, I'm good that I tried it. It didn't work up. I can said, I say got the T shirt and move on from here. But it is that
I had that conversation recently with my stepdaughter, she's now eight and a half. And she asked me to do her, her second grade PE class with her here at home. She's every other day in person. And I was like, Yes, anything physical sounds awesome. So we come together to do this thing. And the PE teacher as the warm up experience has this doing this really silly dance. That's like kicking your feet and then walking in a circle. It's not complicated. But she doesn't take to it right away. And she just like sits down crosses their arms. And she's like, it's hard. And I don't know how to do it, right. I heard myself go. Nepoms don't quit just because it's a challenge. Which was a made up sentence. Because but, in the moment, it was like, I don't know what else to do right now. I don't want to quit just because something feels hard. Because anytime I have quit when something felt hard, it's it's never you know, I don't quit for long I because I I just want to keep going the one time I quit doing something because it was hard with skiing. And honestly, I'm okay with that. The older I've gotten the colder I've gotten so I can have other hobbies. But this is like we hadn't even started into PE class and I was like, You can't just
You can't just give up on yourself like thatl you eight and a half year old. My expectations might be too...
really... five minutes in the class.
I mean, you want to slow down We can slow it down, you want to, you want to pause the video and practice together we can do, those are things we can do. But we don't just cross our arms and wish for life to be easy child because it isn't you the good things are worth working for. And so are the sometimes. So are the mediocre things like a PE class from school?
Absolutely. And it's a challenge, and even just to challenge yourself from a context of in this case, I think is a great example, it's probably the right place where you need to be, I don't know how to do it. This is a challenge. Well, those things are probably maybe true. It was true I guess, in this case, but there's an And to that.
I don't think
there's an and that, oh, we're gonna do this, we're gonna get this right. Or I don't need to be perfect, but I just need to make these steps. But I think it's a microcosm of what we all expect. Yeah, it's a challenge.
I think so two kids are great at reflecting to us, what do we do in our grown up lives in a very, like, acute way it's like, and also a cute way. But anyway, I digress. Well, I've invited you here to share a story. That's the real reason you're here to tell me a story from a time in your life after which things changed in some way for you, whether that's your view of the world, or changed how you identify with something or changed your direction or whatever. And before you tell your story, I'm curious, was it hard to pick one?
It was actually, um, because I, our stories evolve, where we are in place in time. So there's places that you know, when I was a child, and as we were just describing earlier,
When I was thinking as a kid and how that changed my direction versus when I was a young adult versus an older adult. Now, I'm, what that means and does the perspective that I in context, and I'm going to provide it was it was it was was challenging?
Well, I'm excited to hear your story. So I will ask you now, Dr. Ian Brooks, will you tell us a story from a moment in your life after which things changed?
Sure, you know, the one that I'm gonna stand really stand on is a moment in time in my mid life, when I was actually riding a motorcycle, and I was I was hit by a car. And in context, when you're riding a motorcycle, at least, I always I had in my mind that it's not a matter of when it's just a matter, it's a matter of when not if, but when you actually got in an accident. And so always mentally, I knew that at some point, I would get in an accident, by my own hands or someone else's. But when I got hit, in this case, I was t-boned by a car so literally an entire car coming into the side of me. I immediately after I got hit and, and all things transpired, I was riding in the ambulance. I recognized that I have an opportunity here to really take hold of stock in my own life. No, no better place than then being in an ambulance. Um, and not knowing what's going to happen and while I felt good I you know, and mentally obviously, body wise was a little little banged up to say the least. But it also provided me opportunities like at that moment riding in the in the in the ambulance. And I don't know how long it took us to get to the hospital and get to the ER, but I knew riding I thought to myself, I'm getting on this motorcycle again.
Paint me a picture of that day. Where were you headed?
Sure. So actually, I was leaving it out there. Forget it was that actually Obama's second? It was November 7, I think was November 7, when it was the when Obama was going to be elected president again, that was about a day and I was leaving work around four o'clock. And I was I was driving home and I only lived a mile away from where I work. And I was driving in downtown Los Angeles. And there's a lot of traffic as you might imagine, because people are going to different polling places aside from just a regular traffic of individuals going home in general, and I was driving in my lane and California can split lanes but I was driving in my in my lane and again downtown you can't go so fast anyway. But as I was crossing an intersection a car that they had the light and just turned into me it took me out. and I immediately hopped up from that motorcycle and on the other side and just started running I was like just just move I you know whether I was running walking it didn't really matter. But just move just to get away from the car just so I didn't get run over, etc. And I sat down on the curb and you know, obviously good Samaritans stopped and they couldn't go anywhere anyway, from a traffic standpoint. motorcycle was totaled. And car was on the side. And I thought I was fine, right? Because I was like, oh, if I get in an accident, you know, my family friends don't want me to ride again, anyway, they think it's dangerous, you're gonna kill yourself. And here, here's an example. Um, and so I was sitting on them, I'm fine, I'm fine. Just let me breathe and, and so forth. And then, you know, obviously, that's what we tell ourselves, right? Again, getting into this mental and just that physical side, right, and I started just, you know, just feeling good. All of a sudden, my body just wouldn't shock. And it just started going into an alive atrophy. Because I just couldn't stop and, and, and I was like, Oh, I'm just fine. It just, you know, water breath it clearly that was not the case. In that respect, but that was the experience in and I will never forget it. I'll never forget the intersection. Don't forget that what that felt like. And again, if I can't remember, mentally, I do have, you know, the scarring and, and the reminders, still to this day that that afforded me an opportunity to say, You have come from this. You can come through something else. And both physically and mentally. And as we think about change, never losing sight of that it can be hard, and it will be hard, in some ways should be hard. But something that I won't. Yeah.
Did you get back on a motorcycle?
who's listening? Yeah, I have a I have been on a motorcycle since Yes, I yes. I have been don't wanna get in trouble with too many people. But yes, I have been
I'm telling your mommy on you.
It's worse when they see you in that state and you're like, Oh, I'm getting back on? It's because there is fear. Right. And obviously, again, it's about change. we're managing expectations of other people as well. Right? Well, this is an individual journey, the journey I needed to go on. I'm also and we're all conscious of the journey. So other people are experiencing around us because they care about they have their own comfort zones.
yeah, of course, Well, you are a braver man than I am. I am not a brave man. I have not gotten back on the motorcycle. I was in a motorcycle accident when I lived in South Korea. And yeah, and I remember it so vividly. And also with a theater background, I was rather dramatic. I mean, I dragged myself to the side of the road draaaaagged, please call for help! I mean, I've really milked the moment. And I remember that ambulance ride as well very vividly. And mostly because I couldn't stop laughing. Yes, apparently, when I am in distress. That's what happens. And that Yeah, so. And I, I got off pretty easily. I was not terribly injured. But the I never got on a motorcycle again. And I never will. I'm committed to not doing it.
I can, I can appreciate that. And I and you're laughing about dragging stuff to the side. I mean, quite frankly, what might have been dramatic, quite frankly, I'm sure that was part of the case. I was like uhhh... I mean, hey, let me just get this out. Let me just reconcile this for a second. Am I good? Like, let me check to make sure I got or some skin looks better. But you know, from you know, as we talked about change and in the versus transformation for me, it's less about a motorcycle more about the capability. transforming, just that idea of getting on the motorcycle is in and of itself, is that change is a goal. But it wasn't, is not the goal. It is I can do more than what I'm defined by in this motorcycle injury or otherwise. And but I can appreciate there's also a level of Been there, done that got the lesson learned. Thank you. I'm not gonna do that again.
I mean, it's interesting is my Yeah, my experience definitely. It's the first time I can remember realizing in, in, in real life in real time that life is not permanent. Like you always think that that. That was the moment in my life where I had the big epiphany. And then, you know, that was added to later as I lost loved ones or family members or whatever, as you as you get older. And you do. So for me, that was my first brush with mortality and it stuck. I'm curious, you know, you you had that really you had the wherewithal to just like dig in your heels and that mentally in that moment to be like, this does not define me, but I am sorry, I added a little more like Yeah. But you know, but you had that kind of like this is not going to be the thing that defines my relationship with myself or with riding a motorcycle, that's pretty intense. But I am, I am wondering if there were intangible changes that only in reflecting back, you can really see in yourself. Things that like, you're like, I do that differently, or I look at things differently because of that.
Yeah, I, you know, for me, I feel very stable, I look at life differently as well. Sitting in the emergency room, and hearing, you know, the, the screams, so just the howelling that that I wish no one actually hear in any regard, let alone experience. But as you described, it is a, it is a function of, well, I, I'm here. Now I don't know what here really needs at the moment. But I'm not here. I'm not cowelling, and it's in that's that. What it afforded me to do just even subtly is to say, to myself, in that perseverance that I'm going to do this, it was all in the laying in that hospital, even just for those 13 hours, you know, that long night really afforded me a chance to say, you've got? What are you going to do today? Every day is an opportunity every moment is an opportunity because we're not promised a day, we're promised a moment. What can you do? And I talked a little bit about this in the book as well, because I think it really spoke speaks to is the the the principle of 24. We only have 24 hours in this day. We were only promised the next second. That's it. And I can't tell you what I'm going to do with that next second. But I can tell you that it's going to be done with purpose. I don't want to waste time. And it's just those those subtleties in perspective of that I reinforced with myself every day that was really underscored in that moment. And I can truly sense that even why my book is called Intention in a number of ways, is for that purpose. And we think about long term and that's not promised, as you just described, the day isn't promised.
Only this moment, and if I'm gonna go out I'm gonna go out laughing as you did, you know, we go it may or may not be fun, but I'm going to go out. I'm going to do this on my terms. And that can somewhat seem selfish in some ways. It but it's the terms of choice in that when I say it, it sounds selfish. But the reality is, that could be with spending time with you Aden, right now having this conversation, that's, that's a choice right there. This moment, with our family, with our children, with our friends, those are moments. And we need to maximize that. And that really does underscore some of the change I saw saw even more so in myself.
Do you ever catch yourself in a moment where you are not in that moment doing something like purposeful like, like getting a glass of another second glass of beer or whatever? Or like getting a trying to think of a great example. You're like, you know, sleepwalking to go get your shower, whatever and you do you ever just like catch yourself and be like, sleepwalk to the shower with purpose. Like, do you know what I mean? Like do you ever catch yourself when you're not doing like and doing something mundane? And you're like do but do the mundane thing in purpose. Like...
Yes, like this moment is like okay, some things aren't that were purpose like an issue like hey, I ain't doin this with purpose just tie your shoes, move on with our lives?
That's exactly what I mean is.. Do you ever catch yourself you're like, but you could probably inject a little purpose into this shoe tying moment.
I don't do that but what I do say is like consolidate your movements man like you just walked back here like five times to get five different things won't you just get all five right now you just sat here wasted your time. You do realize that. You realize you could have saved yourself all this headache by just doing this. That's what I think to myself like Yeah, I just I just it was a task of futility. I know, and I'm going to I'm going to take that loss next time I'm not I'm not saying I'm sorry about it neither it that's literally conversation like to make myself like,
your statement of I guess not purposeful, but it's Yeah, you do realize that you can't do it all the time. And you can't manage your life that way. Sometimes it's, hey, let's just hop on a plane grab a ticket someplace and let's go like, but I got bills. I got it like, okay, let's, let's go like this. As we go,
yeah. I was talking with somebody yesterday about, I grew up in this, I don't know, I came out of a class of students from a high school in a small town that have gone on, like a lot of the folks in the class, not all of us, but a lot of us have gone on to do really interesting, and sometimes really impactful things. And it's like a whole group of people left that school, feeling like you got to make the most of the life you're given. And it's a really cool thing to have that experience. But there's also this thing where like, not everybody has that not everybody was trained to think about life in that way. A lot of people and I think sometimes listeners of this show even are listening to this show. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you make it sound so easy. But you know, what's really easy, is I'm gonna just watch another show on Netflix. How bout I do that with some purpose you blowhard? Like, I wonder, you know, like we do? I think I think when you get into the business of change, and you get into the business of consulting and coaching, I think I think it is really important to acknowledge is not as easy as we make it sound. There's work involved.
Absolutely. And and I think that's, you know, I think it's an outstanding point. And as we use the word purpose, and that unites the principle 24 moments, right? Yeah, distinguishing out and separating out what that really means. It's, if you want to kick your feet up and eat a whole bag of potato chips and watch Netflix all day, you're doing with that purpose, whether you realize it or not congratulate. Now, if your purpose is really to go out there and exercise, well, then that's, you know, that's a that's a different conversation. But you're still doing what you're doing with purpose. And it could you are doing it intentionally, right. And that's okay. It isn't always necessarily an outcome based, hey, I have accomplished I, you know, I hiked this mountain, or I did this or that. Well, you have a story to tell sometimes that purposes. I just need a last my thoughts. What did you do today? No. I didn't do a single thing. And I did it intentionally. And I'm okay with that.
I think that's critical. I think it's super important actually I think if I think to live a Purpose Driven Life in which you are trying to get the most out of every moment, some of those moments, you need to get rest. And some of those moments you need to get spaced out. Some of those moments you need to get forgetful. And it's that's all part of the equation. It's like life is is a balance of experiences, you know?
Yeah, it really is. And, and I think people again, just get lost in a Go, go, go, go, go go. It's like, no, yeah, I need to stop. I just need you to just do the opposite. I just, yeah, just stop. That's purpose and in and as you mentioned, that offers balance that we don't necessarily afford ourselves because we're in that constant comparison of like, Oh, my God, if you'd even describe your eyes go like you've done some really cool thing. So in maybe some people's mind, while I'm like I put myself out there because they've done this really cool stuff. And I just did this, like, Well, that doesn't make you less than it's just you have a different story. And that's okay. You don't need to keep keep doing. But it isn't always a hierarchy of you did this and they did this mount constant comparison. And that's what we sometimes get caught up, unfortunately.
Yeah, well, I really enjoy talking with you. I'm seeing what time it is. I'm curious. What are your final thoughts here? What would you like to leave people thinking about as a result of having heard this conversation?
Sure! I You know, there's there's two takeaways that that I'd say after our conversation? I think, as we described, there are several takeaways, not just two. But the first is a change is hard, right? I don't think I don't think your listeners are surprised by that. But this is just another story in acknowledgment that as we go about our journeys, each of our journeys is different, and acknowledging that we're not only the writer, or the director, we're the actors, and we can't control our sets, and not being afraid of what that really entails, which leads to the second point of fear. It looks good on a piece of paper, right? We all live parallel lives on paper. But when you put in that work, that what you're feeling versus what you're seeing, that's when that's when that challenge comes and when that fear starts to come out. person, you know, have have the context of that knowing that it's going to come knowing that it's going to be there and Now how are you going to mitigate that? And it's okay to say I'm not going to do this. But acknowledging that still puts it puts you in a position of power versus being held captive by the fear. And then finally, enjoy the journey. Continuously look for opportunities to just lay up, watch Netflix and eat ice cream and eat chips as much as you do. laying up and enjoying yourself and doing taking activities. But acknowledge that it's your choice. But always do it with intention, and you can never be wrong.
Thank you for your time. I really, really appreciate it.
No, thank you and it's been a wonderful conversation and look forward
Okay, so I am really interested in this idea, this distinction, that Doctor Ian Brook has made between transformation and change. Since the whole idea behind this show is to explore the meaning of change. I will confess to you that personally I have been including transformation among the many definitions for change that I have. But now I am thinking about what happens when you parse these two out. Suddenly, transformation is this category where it feels hard and change maybe is a category where it's less hard or easy. I don't know. I will be thinking about this more and I encourage you to do the same. I want to hear from you. have thoughts feelings, sarcastic remarks or a story to share based on listening to this episode helps us keep the conversation going. join the Facebook group www.facebook.com/groups/changehub. Make sure to pick up your copy of Intention should you choose to buy one from your local bookseller. And of course, please help us spread the word about this podcast. I want to thank you for listening to and supporting the change podcast. Special thanks go to my family for their love, support and patience to all of the amazing changed podcast Patreon page members who I couldn't do this without. Art of Change Skills for Life. And Patreon member producer Dr. Rick Kirschner.
I'm Aden Nepom. And I wish you the kind of experiences in life you're excited to tell stories about.