The Lovestruck Relationship Experiment: What Are You Thinking? Part 1 w/ Dr. Robin

4:03PM Jul 4, 2022

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danielle

date

felt

conversation

people

acting

thinking

fantasy

hari

gis analyst

vibe

person

robin

read

question

experience

researcher

pandemic

exploring

moment

See? How good are we at guessing what our date is thinking? And should first dates and much sooner than they do? Well, today we're putting that question to the test, um, to real people who have agreed to go on our first date live on our show, put on your lab coats and snap on your safety goggles because this Love Lab is about to heat up. I'm Alicia. Hi,

I'm Sarah window. Welcome to love struck daily, where we explore all of the signs of love each week. saying to you I'm in love with you. Alicia, how good are you at knowing what Kyle is thinking?

I think I'm pretty good. I feel like I'm really attuned to his body language. So the minute he gets a little tense stuff or, you know, looks a little worried. I'm always like, what's wrong? Are you Are you okay? But I'm also kind of an anxious person. No, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I've never I've never heard this, you know, I

hide it really well, but that's me. I'm very anxious. And I think part of that is I'm very, always hyper attuned to what's what's going on with people around me like, because I'm always worried they're mad at me. So I'm always like, are you mad at me? Or is everything? Why are you frowning? So yeah, I think I'm pretty good. Yeah.

Well, we've talked a lot about first dates on this show, especially your dating history and learning how to go on first dates with continued optimism. And today we're going to take a deep dive into that question. We are going to be exploring the question How good are we at reading what our partner is thinking on a date? And we're putting this question to the test using A Harvard study on this very subject. We're going to be conducting an honour experiment with two willing participants who have graciously agreed to go through this with us. But the basis for this experiment is really cool. This is all based on a 2021 Harvard study, do conversations and when people want them to spoiler alert, my answer is always no. Like 10 minutes earlier, but this study was conducted by Adam M. Mastriani, Daniel T. Gilbert, Gus Cooney and Timothy D. Wilson, and they paired up 252 strangers for 45 minute conversations, then spoke to them individually to analyse the conversations. When did they want the conversation to end? And maybe more importantly, when did they think their partner wanted to end that conversation? The study found that only 2% of the conversations ended when both participants wanted them to. So today we're going to adapt this experiment for lovestruck which means we aren't going to run any normal conversations we are going to run some dates.

Today we're welcoming on some very special guests. First up, we have licenced psychologist Dr. Robin, New York Times bestselling author and speaker with a PhD in Psychology counselling and several decades worth of writing research and practical psychology experience. With a special focus on relationships and marriage. Dr. Robin brings a great deal of expertise to the table. And joining Dr. Robin are two strangers who are about to go on a first date. How are you? Bhaskar is an actor and performer based out of New York and Danielle varier, a GIS analyst. Let's see what they find in common.

Welcome Dr. Robin, I am so glad to have you here today. How are you?

I'm great. I'm so excited to be with you guys. This is a fun moment and one where I think we're going to learn something about ourselves and about each other.

Absolutely. So tell me about yourself. How did you get started with with what you do?

I am a licenced psychologist. I had a real longing and love for curiosity. And for the things that don't always work out. Yes, not just in the lives of other people, but in my own life. And again, very curious about the ways in which we live, connected and belonging and where we are disconnected not only from other people, but disconnected from ourselves.

He's really the ideal person to bring us through today. Shall we begin?

I think so. It is time we have with us today. Hurry and Danielle. And so we're going to have a first date. We're going to pay attention and listen and learn from them and then we'll come back and talk to them. They'll talk to us about what they experienced.

sounds really interesting. I am also very curious.

So Hari and Danielle. I'm just I'm gonna welcome you pretend that none of us are here with you right now. I know that's a little strange. But pretend anyway, and really just step into this fresh, never lived before moment of meeting each other

I planned on having coffee for this to be like, oh, a coffee date and then completely forgot. Yeah,

definitely, definitely. I mean, I'm just like, it's been a bit of a crazy day. So yeah, my mind is still like a bit hazy right now cuz I haven't had any proper food. Yeah.

Yeah, that's it. I'm running off of coffee. And just adrenaline from work. Because I like to say it's not crazy every day. But every day I'm like, oh, yeah, something new. Okay, that's on me. Yeah.

So what do you do for work?

So I'm a GIS analyst, which just means like I do stuff with maps and data and like, GPS and stuff like that. And since I'm the only person who really works with GPS and like field applications, I get a lot of calls from field crews about that

to do like work on like, the Google Maps like software and stuff like that.

The stuff that I do is kind of similar, but it's another software that's like, just for a mapping.

This is like, what's the name of the software that you are working on right now.

So it's from Esri. And it's the kind of ArcGIS we if you're familiar with that at all, like ArcMap, ArcGIS. Pro, they have dashboards, which way early on, when the pandemic started, if you looked at any of the stuff that they released of like, look at this, what's going on? It's the same software because I was excited. I'm like, I know what that is. Oh, well, shouldn't nerd out about this, but I did. So are you working from home?

I just graduated from acting school like a few weeks ago. So I'm still like, going for gigs? Yeah, I'm like going to games here and there. So yeah, like, I have some I have quite a few theatre projects coming up. So I came to the city, like a year and a half ago, I was in India before that. Yeah, so I came during the, during the pandemic, like last year,

that had to be like, it's such a wild move to begin with. And then during that with everything that's going on, and like stuff closing and opening. That had to be challenging, but exciting.

Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, I came here just for just for acting school. So now I'm done with that as well. So now it's all about trying to find as much work as possible so that eventually I can try and get a work visa to actually stay in this country. So So yeah, now it's just about like, right now. I'm just like hustling and like hustling and bustling. Searching for work everywhere.

How long? Have you known you wanted to do acting? That's I don't run into a lot of people who do that kind of stuff in school?

I would say, seven years at least. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like I probably, like it was in high school that I decided that I want to, I want to go into acting. And I decided the whole thing that I want to go to acting school and then train and then go out. I mean, right now I'm doing all the dirty work. dirty work in the sense that like, I mean, I would say like, you know, when you start off as an actor, it's not it's not going to be glamorous from like, day one. Yeah. It's kind of like I I'm doing all the dirty work right now. But then, you know, diamonds come out from the dirt.

Yeah, exactly.

So I just want to come in for just a moment. All right. Would you mind just taking off your headphones for just a moment so I can talk to Danielle. So Danielle, let's take a deep breath. Yeah, first date first meet and greet with Hari. How is it feeling?

Yeah, I think it's going well, because he's good at conversing back and forth. And like, you know, it feels like there's a fair balance. And he's good at keeping the conversation going. There's a lot of times where I feel like I'm kind of driving the conversation, but it actually feels like he started out driving it which is kind of early for me. I'm like, Alright, nice. Someone's taking charge, but not like over powering the conversation either. So good

balance. It's a good beginning. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So I'm going to check in with Hari, if you want to take your headphones off for just a moment.

We'll be right back after the short break.

Yep, I'll take these off and turn my camera off and just step away for a minute.

Right. So, hurry. Where are you with this first meet and greet? The date, feeling what's working? I mean,

I think it's like really too soon to say whether it's working or not, because we we barely talked for like 10 minutes. Yeah, I'm still not very sure about it speaking from experience, like, you know, going for, like, whatever data that have gone on like this. Yeah. I don't want to read too much into it. Yeah.

No, you know, that's, it's good to hear your perspective, apart from Danielle and hers apart from you, because it allows both of you to have your own experience whether or not that's similar or different, without really without interpretation. So that's great. Well, let's let Danielle come back and join us. And we will continue. So yeah,

where were we get cut off?

Yeah, I don't remember. But I do know. Like, we don't have a lot of time left. So I wanted to ask a little bit about like, what you like to do for fun? Oh, yeah,

totally. I like apart from acting like I love working out. Like I love going to the gym. So oh, oh, yeah, I yeah, I love I love going to the gym. Like while I was at school, I would go like six days a week. I do my splits like so. I would do like, twice a week. Like, say all the parts. Yeah, that's how that's how I used to do it. Now. Like, my schedule is a bit of erratic, like, at least for the next two days. Yeah, I have like 12 hour rehearsal. So Oh, wow.

Yeah. I mean, 12 hours of like, rehearsing sounds like a workout in itself. Yeah.

It's my when I need to do is my acting gigs. Like, that's my first priority.

No, I gotta, it's the same way of like, some days I can have a plan of this is what I'm gonna do. But urgent work comes in and I have to work late. And I'm like, right. Maybe I can get like, half an hour in on the elliptical or something. And that's it. Yeah, totally, totally. It's definitely a challenge. But yeah, I'm the same. If I miss certain days when I have it planned. I definitely get a little stressed out like, No, today, I'm supposed to go away on my front squats. Like, darn, I swear. Like, that's one thing. I like to you know, my anxieties suffer as a result, like, you know, straight. I'm not, I'm not going to show my progress. Oh, yeah, I definitely get a little insight in my own head. I'm like, All right, you're fine. You're still going up, like 10 pounds a week on everything. But yeah, if I missed that one day, I'm like, How can I fit it all in? Like, you can't fit all of that in today? Don't do that. You're going to be way too tired?

Of course, of course. So that's one of my hobbies, going to the gym. The other one I would say is I love exploring the city. So I love I love like going to different places, like preferably like, you know, I would like to go to many more museums in the city. But I've been to like a lot of parks in the city, like I've been to, like, luckily, I can say, you know, I've been to all five boroughs. So I'm glad to say that at least. Yeah. I mean, I know a few people have been here for like, I think a few years, they still haven't gone through all that. So

you've really gotten around because it's, I mean, they have like the transportation, everything. But still all those are so much farther than you think like, oh, yeah, you have to be really deliberative. I'm going here and exploring this. So that's impressive.

I mean, I still remember like, Staten Island was like the last borough that I visited. Like, there was literally nothing over there. Like it's so it's so empty, like I swear. It's like having no vibe as its vibe. So

it's like, I'm just trying to get rid that's my thing. It Yeah, it makes me think of what I assume London is like because I always picture England is like it's always great and rainy. Like, even though I know it's probably not but like, I go to Staten Island. I'm like, this is like a less fancy London.

Yeah, it's it felt weird going on.

Which one has been your favourite?

Manhattan? Like, no doubts about it? Yeah, I hadn't, like Manhattan is like, you know, having too much of a vibe was like kind of a thing. And even Manhattan like you know, even within Manhattan itself, the different vibes like downtown like Chinatown in Harlem in general has its own vibe. Then like the Upper East Side, the village Times Square, they all have own vibes. So yeah.

This has been terrific. Both of you, allowing us to make this journey the conversation together at least the first part of it. And what we're gonna do now, party is going to be he'll be there but not hearing. Yeah. Okay. So Danielle, here we are, together on a scale of one to 10 How much did you enjoy the day?

Um, I'd say a nine. I enjoyed it a lot. He seems like he's easy to talk to, has a lot to say, has a lot of interests and is really vocal and clear about those and is a good about expressing them. So that's always nice, you know, when someone has an opinion?

And how much do you think that Hari also enjoyed the conversation with you? Oh,

I would hope just as much but maybe not quite as much. It seems like he might have been a little nervous. I know. He said he had a lot going on with work. So yeah, this is really tough. Trying to read someone, I would say a seven.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, there's no hard science to this. And the as the conversation went on, the date went on. Was there a part where you felt like you were either ready for it to end sooner or for it to continue longer? Yeah.

Not the end sooner. I was really happy having our conversation. He seems like a really nice, cool person. So I enjoyed talking to him, based on his experiences. Sounds like he's got a lot of cool stuff to share cool interests. Like as soon as I felt that kind of easy, flowing conversation. I knew. Yeah, I would like this to continue. He's easy to talk to I'm in drying this use engaging.

Would you want another date? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

Yeah, I'd definitely be interested in a second date to I mean, we already have some things in common. He seems very cool. So it's definitely something right. So yeah, I'd like to know this person more.

Okay. Well, thank you. And if we can switch places, we'll let hurry, calm and share and then we'll come back together. All right. Can you hear me? Yeah, can you? Okay, perfect. So welcome back. I'm curious, I'd love to know, on a scale of one to 10 How much did you enjoy this date?

I would say like, a six, between a six and a seven. It was fun. Like, I mean, especially once I found out that she also was like, you know, like fitness and all that kind of stuff. A, you know, we were able to find something in common. So that was that was really fun. Like, I could see myself like, you know, like, there was like this sort of Spark. We just came in me when you know, when, like, that always happens whenever I find, you know, someone who like, you know, shares the same hobbies as me so, so yeah,

that's great. And how much do you think, Danielle, enjoy a date? Do you have a sense of that? Maybe like a five out of 10? Okay, that's great. How did you think that conversation went? Just from the beginning until, you know, we ended?

I think the first half, like, you know, first half, like I was asking the questions. And the second half she was asking, and so I think there was like, a like that that cut allowed us to have like a perfect balance.

So was there a point in the conversation where you felt like you were ready for the conversation to end before it did?

No, not really. In fact, I, I feel we could have we even if you had more time, we could have talked a lot more. Yeah.

So my last question, for at least for right now is would you want another date with Danielle? We'll take we'll be right back when you want another date with Danielle? Yeah. Well, let's let Danielle come back and join us. And we will continue. You guys have both been like so flexible and willing. What I will say, just in closing, is that you both had very similar excuse variances actually have the date. It doesn't often work that people are having the same experience. But both of you very much, were somewhat in the same ballpark of how you experienced yourselves and each other, and that you would welcome a second date. So I mean, I see both of you kind of nodding and a smile, because we never know. Right? And what felt like it really worked here is that you were genuinely curious about things that you're interested in. So this was, I would say, A, like five star first date. And we'll hope that you guys can, you know, coordinate so that you can have actually a real conversation that doesn't involve me. It does, it involves me in a little bit of a different way. So yeah, terrific. Thank you both. Yeah. And if there's anything, just as we're closing that you want to say just about the process about the experience, of course, I want to hear that too.

It's one of those things where you're not really thinking about how you act or respond to things on a first date. And I definitely found myself doing that a little more. So it was interesting, because I've never stopped to think about how I react on a date or do anything, just kind of go with the flow. So I definitely feel like I got more of a read on myself than I anticipated. And it was slightly different than I thought to. So it was really eye opening for

me. That's great. And hurry. What about you? If there's anything?

Yeah, it was fun. Like I did not expect like this day thing to happen. When I got it for the first time. I just thought it was like a normal podcast or something like that way. I'm just being asked questions. I did not expect that. Yeah. So those those. Yeah, that little surprise was fun. So yeah, thanks for that.

Yeah, this is terrific. Well, we're really grateful. And we will support the coordination of you guys being able to connect minus me.

Dr. Robin, that was, that was a lot. There's a lot of things to talk about there. A whole lot. So the question we're exploring overall, is how good are we at reading what our partner is thinking on a date? What do you think of the result of that question with this particular conversation,

this most recent study that talked about whether a person wants a conversation to end sooner, that often people wanted it to end sooner than it actually ends? And they don't want someone's feelings? With this couple. They were actually a little more balanced and aligned. Now. Danielle was less sure. And I think some of that is gender, that when I was asking her, about her read, she was willing to own her feelings. But when I asked her how she thought her conversation partner was feeling Oh, she got a little cautious, shall we say? And yet their read was both of them rated themselves lower than they did their partner in the conversation. They felt that they enjoyed it possibly more than the person that they were talking with. It's both a surprising result. And not surprising result, isn't it? Yeah. Because of the protective layer? Yes, absolutely. That we all as human beings can, you know, get into and the research also does show that that when someone feels that they are at risk of embarrassment, or humiliation, yeah, we will play it a little closer, you know, to the vest. Yeah, hoping to not feel ashamed. And so it is both surprising. But it's actually predictable. Yeah, that we become careful when we think that we may be unaligned with someone else.

What other data from other studies do you think we could bring into this analysis?

There are a couple of research studies that are that really apply. One has to do with first impressions. So it's interesting about how quickly we make an assessment on that first impression. There's a Princeton researcher that says it doesn't really matter how funny our you know, the jokes are, whether or not we're paying for dinner. What real li people are paying attention to is whether or not they feel seen and heard. That makes sense. And it's actually and what it says is that it's in a 10 of a second. Wow, really? I mean, that's a blank. Yeah. So it's for us to recognise the power of that blank. You know, one of the things that the research shows is the sound of our voices have so much to do with how someone experiences us, not only our nonverbal cues, so important 38% of tone, volume and tenor 55% of body language, and only 7% of words, shape, how we are experienced. Yeah, something else that really stands out for me, because I think we are often so seduced by fantasy. Yeah, over reality. I mean, fantasy just always just looks better. But one of the researchers also found that participants tend to have a positive impression of their first date. But when they're told to rate that first date, in comparison to their ideal fantasy partner, guess what happens? All of a sudden, what felt like this is a great first date, all of a sudden, starts to lose its power. Wow. And what really often kills relationships, and the potential for relationships to grow, is the attachment to fantasy over reality? Yep. And so I caution us not that person, pressures aren't important. But if they are based again, in fantasy, and then we live and get rid of someone, or stay with someone in a relationship that is based on fantasy, we lose the power of what reality can teach, offer and give us. Wow,

that's a really good point. And I think that is the perfect point to end this. Thank you. So very, very much for joining us. Your expertise has been invaluable. And I have learned so much. Thank you.

Well, thank you for having me. And I'm really happy to have been a part of the creation of this.

That was really incredible. And I am so curious to learn more about this. If you would like to learn more about this, please go to our show notes for citations on the studies that we mentioned. And to read and learn more. Alicia, what's our love to go for today?

I think part of it is to maybe not underestimate what your partner is thinking when you're on a first date, because they both kind of rated each other's interest is lower than it actually was. So. So yeah, maybe part of it is show your interest more so the person that understands that you're interested, but also be optimistic. Maybe Maybe they like you more than you thought they did. I think that's a really good takeaway. Yeah. And if you want to tell us how much you like us, we'd love that we really would send us a rating. I mean, you can also literally rate us, we want to know what you're thinking so you can send an email to lovestruck daily at Frolik dot media, or follow us on Instagram and Twitter at lovestruck daily. And please please, please leave us a review and rate us literally rate us because we do love that.

Our researcher is Jesse Epstein. Our editor is Jen Jacobs. We are produced by Abigail steckler and little Scorpion studios with executive producer frolic media. This is an iHeartRadio podcast. We wish you a very happy ever after. I'm in love with that I'm in love with you. I'm in love with you