Care of Magical Shippers Podcast Episode 13 - Snotterly: Snake in the Lions Den

2:15AM Oct 10, 2021

Speakers:

Megs

Nathan

Music

Keywords:

snape

lily

severus

james

people

ship

fic

episode

harry

sudden

laughing

person

happening

character

feel

nathan

poly

wholesome

love

realizes

Hello shippers. I'm so excited to let you know that this week on PuffCast, Nathan and I are guest spotting for their Halloween episode that launches on Wednesday. It's everything Halloween so we actually wrote a Halloween crack fic with Giuliana, which we're going to read for you as well as one of my Drarry Halloween themed fics. We had so much fun, lots of fun, Goofy surprises for you. The girls just are amazing and really gave us a lot of, I mean, surprises. You'll know, you'll find out. But definitely head over Wednesday for Episode 41. We're so excited to share it with you all aboard and badger on.

Hello there listener. Yes, you specifically, you should know that sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode descriptions for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this podcast is rated R for really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these ships.

Well here I'm just gonna read it out loud because then I think it's like oh then it's kind of in both of our heads. Yeah so I mean of course the general week off topic so we made this really intense outline worship dynamics blah blah. Poly ship intro: What is it about poly ships that satisfies us as readers and writers? Writing poly fic is groundbreaking in such a monogamous culture. Is there something about redefining characters— you just Nathan you so you use so many words about redefine— you're just such an academic like about redefining characters. [laughing]

Okay, I'm gonna read some aloe vera because you just burned me. The damage is gone. It's like OKAY

[You're on the canon ground, I'm up in crack ship space. Let's start a shipping war, don't care if I get hate. Don't like my pairings, well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my OTP, I'll go down with this ship. I don't care, I ship it! I don't care. I ship it. I ship it.]

Welcome back to Care of Magical Shippers Podcast Harry Potter ship culture podcast with Megs

and Nathan in case you didn't know who I was already by now.

Yeah

I mean if you're just finding us amazing cool like maybe this year OT3 and you're all about this then go back and listen to everything else because it's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, there's lots of us going Megs and Nathan. Although I think one week we should do it where I say I'm Megs and you say your're Nathan. We'll see if anybody notices.

And I'm Nathan. So anyway, so okay, so obviously I very much picked this ship. So this week is all about it's a poly ship. It is James Potter, Lily Evans and Severus Snape.

You were determined to get Snape in there somewhere. And you were like Christina, we were having this discussion before we counted in this episode and you're like, Okay, I want to talk about Snape but I want to do it unconventionally. Here literally, we went through all of the like the list of poly parents who were just like I could literally just put Snape on the end of any of these.

I did. That's, I literally said that. I was like, oh, and Snape. Oh.

So with that in mind. With that in mind, let's get into talking about this ship. Now that just a little bit of housekeeping. We had listeners. We had a listener survey recently, and some and some of you guys said look, we really appreciate what you're doing in the pilot, but maybe could you do a few less

Wolfstar.

I already feel so guilty about that

feeling worse about this. Look, there will be more Wolfstar in the pipeline. It's fine. We the listeners aren't here this week for a Wolfstar episode for some J L S but before we get into that, I just want to say to all those listeners wanted more ship dynamics. wanted us to really get into it. We we hear you we see you and we got you and to that end, I went crazy and made a giant like outline for

yeah cuz it because previously we kind of like we did the outline thing and we felt like we kind of crashed and burned because we were like too focused on like, all the things and being like very, you know, struck I heard and then it

was very scripted It was very like oh no, no, I will continue about this point, which makes me seem completely robotic.

So then we're like, fuck it like it was the first episodes we were just like, we're just gonna talk, you know, we're just gonna see what happens and randomness happened. And then we've continued our journey and magic is happening. And it's really exciting. But also, yeah, sometimes we really go off the rails. So with this one, especially with how much I love the idea of this pairing. And then as you looked into it, you got really excited about it. We have some really awesome points that we want to at least cover some of them. So we had to write things down. So at least they were like nuggets in our brain that we kind of like pull out and talk about. Yeah, I love this pairing.

Yeah, so if you if you like this format and you like how this sounds, then get in touch and be like, yeah, I liked it. Or if you have any comments, suggestions, you know, to get in touch with us social media careofmagicalshippers@gmail.com. We have a voicemail if you want to rewind to the 1990s. And. And.

But we do have telegram too, which is super fun. You can send us text and voice messages and we can voice message you back and you can feel special

and I love sending voice messages I probably do it a little too much. But

That's how Nathan and I pretty much talk like all day every day. We're just like, yeah, bla bla bla like, all the things. It's just It's so nice. It's so easy. And I love it. We love it.

We've gotten used to hearing each other's voices in the pod. And we just don't we just don't want to stop when the pod episodes end.

So anyway, and then on the on the like adverse side of things. Like if this if you're just like after this, dude, guys, you just seemed so like it was it was too like I don't know, like too structured or something like that, where I'll try and keep it playful, because we should still have fun. There's a lot of fun to be had with this. So yeah.

Definitely. It's not that we're not going to try and have fun. We're just trying something a little bit different. But I still think if you have ever seen the friends episode where they're all doing Mad Libs, and Monica has that great quote, and she's like, but rules help control the phone. Okay, so with that in mind, let's dive straight into... First of all, just general poly ship stuff, and then we'll get into James Lily Severus.

Yes.

Um, so. What do you think it is about poly ships in particular, that satisfies us as like readers and writers and imbibers of fanfic?

Um, well, I think well, partially, I mean, it already starts with like, when you have a pairing of two people that you want to see together, and then I feel like either A) pulling in that third person can be on one hand really fluffy and wholesome, because you want to see, like when I think of our, like Haromione episode, like the golden trio, just even though that there is like a little bit of angst and conflict. Like it feels like a very, like, wholesome, and believable ship. But then sometimes there's that like, you throw someone in there and it's like throwing a wrench in the cog and it just totally is just, it's drama. It's angst and we love that and I mean who doesn't love like more than two people having sex with each other at one time?

I know, I know. I just feel like as as fanfic readers especially if you read Snotty fic you know we're thirsty all the time and we really like a lot of the— A lot of my enjoyment of when I'm looking for thirst fic is how is the sex going to happen and who is it going to be between and if I'm you know if I if I try not to look at the tags before I you know look at something I can be really surprised and go oh, I wasn't expecting so and so's penis to pop out there.

Whoopsie [sing-song voice]

Some extra genital action there. I don't know I'm all about that. And I personally just think that because we're, you know, this is gonna sound really academic and dry but I also think it speaks to something about our culture as well so we're still living in a society that's largely monogamous, right? So fanfic is a way of really redefining characters and pushing that envelope and I don't necessarily think it's done as being subversive all the time but I think whenever I read it it's like an act of, you know, really sort of pushing that envelope and making it so that people can if they can't see the space that they want to have out in the world, then they can make it in fanfic and there's something really wholesome about that to me.

Yes. Oh absolutely. And of course like you know, we talked about like fanfic doesn't have to be like true to life like we want drama we want things to clash and the smut Yeah, poly just kind of can make things really spicy and fun and different and it's, you know, it's it's all about playing around in this world regardless of like, who we're shipping and what's happening and it's just it's another way to ship and it's just it's really fun like it doesn't have to be just two people. Of course it like it complicates things a lot sometimes like you're like okay, now I have to think about the dynamic between three like three sets of people or more like sometimes like I'm really into the idea of like the Marauders all being together like that's four people that have to like deal with each other. Or the four founders like Maria had mentioned like back in the Hermione episode like episode that she really loved that and that's I could totally see that too. So there's the opportunity for a, you know, porn without plot where you're just like yeah, it's gonna have all these people moaning together just like orgy happening like that's what's happening. Otherwise it's like the complexities of those different relationships and how they vary from person to person and whether it makes, you know, a relationship stronger or like the the jealousy side of things. And it's just it's it just makes me think of I mean this is a drama like a telenovela. Like it's just like all these crazy things will just like pop up and it's like things seem to be going okay and then all of a sudden it's not it's so not okay or whatever it's like

yeah [adament]

And like if one one pairing is happening first and then the other person comes in later that can either like complicate things and then eventually it ends up okay or it makes things, you know, stronger for said pairing. I feel like we get a lot of variety and what James Lily and Severus can be. Like it can be wholesome it can be really dramatic it can be really dark it can it's there's so much potential with the three of them together just because from what we have in canon to go off of but also the fact that we don't have a lot either. Like we know Severus and Lily were friends, we know Severus was in love with her, we know James and Lily got married, and we know James was, you know, was trying to get with Lily through school and she wasn't necessarily into it for a long time. So there's just a lot of crazy things between all of the relationships then of course James bullying Severus. I mean, there's just there's so much. Everything's complicated between all of those like even you think of Lily and James like how did their happily ever after happen? You know, after all of this like oh surprise seventh year...

Exactly [even more adament]

James is all of a sudden like decent and cool and nice and considerate and now Lily's interested so...

yeah! [the most adament to ever adament]

It's really it's really interesting how James can be written because it can be done. I mean. Same thing with all of them like Severus especially James can be like like okay full HAM on the bully. Like he's just like super shitty and then there's also like surprise James is actually like this really like caring and compassionate nurturing and like even though he was playing off of his friends of, you know, looking down on this weird dark arts playing around with like kid that he sees us like probably evil. So of course it's like them versus this bad wizard they could see but say then he discovers Severus his backstory of like of his home life and the the abuse he receives at home...

Right, yeah. [still very adament]

And the things he lives through all of a sudden he's like, wait a minute, like I didn't see him as a person. Like I wasn't seeing him as like a real person with real issues and the things he does have reasons behind why he made the choices he did and then things change and it's just. Yeah, no, there's so. I'm sorry, I just I've already like, a million ways into this ship. I just I love it so much.

Yeah, no, you don't need to apologize. I'm just like, I'm fascinated by the psychology behind wanting to explore characters like James then because you said like, Oh, you know, maybe he can have the that crystallizing moment where he has that epiphany where, you know, he realizes what Sirius has been through. And then he, you know...

Wait Severus?

sorry, Severus

I was like, wait, what did Sirius do? [laughing]

When he realizes what Severus has been through. And then he is able to evolve because of that and I just think is that because we as readers love a good redemption story or is it or is it because we want to redeem somebody who is like directly linked to Harry who we know is like ends up being the savior of the wizarding world? So we have to somehow make James be a better person than he is because in canon, you know, the the the small bit of canon exposure that we do get to James doesn't particularly show him off in a great light, you know. He is essentially just this very sure of himself cocky arrogant frat boy who just radiates you know big Gryffindor energy and and seems to you know, obviously that we see this through Snapes memory so obviously it's being colored by Snapes personal experiences. But there has to be some element of truth even to what we're seeing.

Right. [Megs is the adament one now]

I just, I just wonder, like, like going on to talking about them as a poly ship. I wonder how James can really be realistically paired with anyone other than James because he's so in love with himself, you know.

[cackling] Oh, that's so good because on one hand, it could be like okay, Lily is seen as now I'm like, picturing that Gaston moment of like the prettiest girl in this, in the village. Well, that could be Lily. Lily is the most beautiful girl in his year. Of course, like she's gonna be my girlfriend like and of course she's not gonna say no. And like he's just he is like, I don't know if he was Quidditch Captain or what I mean, he's definitely is like strutting around the place. Like it's just it's one of those things like when Snapes like, oh, and you're just like your father. You know, strutting around whatever. Harry's like [sassy voice] "my father did not strut." You don't know that and most likely he did. Most likely strutting the fuck out of that castle.

Then we and then we, you know, jump cut to...

[singing in the tune of Gaston's theme song] no one Seeker like James.

[more cackling] Oh, wow. Oh, gosh, so good. Once again, we're going into the Disney interlude. Apparently that's a thing we like to do.

I mean, cultural references for the win. I don't care. It's our podcast, we could do what we want.

Exactly, say that every week. Yeah.

Yeah, but it never stops being true. I feel like we need to put that on a T shirt.

[muffled giggling]

So so yes. So do we think that like redeeming James is just that we do it out of a desire to make Harry more relatable? Or is it that we really just we want to see James in a more balanced, wholesome, grown up light? Because, you know, I've said before in the pod, we aren't always the people that we are at 17. You know, we're not the product of only the choices we made them, then rather, and obviously, you know, he was a pretty sketchy character at certain points. But that doesn't mean that he got to stay that way. And do you think like cuz, for me, for them all to work as a couple the hardest stumbling block that I that is tough for me to get around mentally isn't even Severus because you know, we talk about Snape so often. And there's so much redeeming of Snape that gets done in fanfic anyway. But for me, James at is is so canonically problematic, that he's harder to get to a place where you're like, Oh yeah, I see them together and I see it working. So I mean, just from your perspective, how do you see James's redemption happening?

Yeah, well I mean first of it to play off what do you said of it. We go almost a full five books before we see an aspect of like negatively... you know, implying that James was the bully that Snape said he was. So the whole time we're just like, Harry's parents died and they were these heroes and the nicest people like even Hagrid said like nicer people you never would have met you know like it's just like everyone celebrates them as like this this beautiful couple like you know not that they weren't you know, great friends and all these things but I still like have... it's hard for me when I stop and think about it like where when was that? Like how could, you know, the shift of like literally boom, seventh year or whatever all of a sudden James like I don't know like what I don't know what that instance of like, changed his mindset. Which of course when it comes into writing some fanfiction, I could see that being him, you know, because he actually finds out something about Severus he didn't know and all of a sudden he wants to be a different person because of him.

Yeah

I mean that's just like kind of what... there has to be something that triggered something, you know, like you don't... obviously, you think of school like there's those bullies and all of a sudden it's like they figure it out that they're like that was stupid that was immature like not going to do that anymore. But yeah, I just sorry, what was the second part? What were you asking? Something about pairings? How do you see what? Redeeming him?

Yeah, I was asking about redeeming him

[snickering in the background]

Thanks so much for paying attention.

Sorry, I get... my brain goes places. I'm trying to reel it back in. We're trying people. We're trying really hard.

We have one job and that's to have conversation with each other. And then we can't even manage that. We're just like, nope.

So so what you were saying about Hagrid though is really interesting to me because his perception of people... like he has this real innocence about Hagrid that I think like he like look how he characterizes Dumbledore like Dumbledore is the greatest wizard there ever was. You know, nobody better insult Dumbledore. We know Dumbledore was really problematic. So I, I feel like there's canonical grounds to question Hagrid's perception or you know, maybe he just wasn't around whenever James was bullying Severus. But I suppose what I was really asking you that it because I asked it in a really wordy way. Because it wouldn't be like me at all. But what I was really— what I was really trying to drive at is, how do they get over their sort of mortal enemies state that we see them in? Can there ever be more than just flangst between, you know, them? And, um, then Lily because Lily has... right?

Yeah, yeah. Well, because you think of like, Lily and Severus are obviously best friends really close for a long time until they weren't, you know. And like she was just like, I can't deal with the people you're spending your time with now. You've become someone that I no longer want to be around and, you know, I'm sure it broke her heart to do and say such a thing. And then he does respect that like, it's not like he pushes it he just, she they go their separate ways. And obviously, he carries her with him. But I just see the whole triangle of being like Snape wanting Lily, but she doesn't see him that way. And then there's James wanting Lily and then eventually that happens and I... but when it comes to Snape and James, it's definitely I think we talked about kind of, like that healing aspect of, it's going to take Severus a really long time to like trust anybody. You know what I mean?

yeah

like, especially someone who for years was like, tormented him and bullied him and embarrassed him and like, humiliated him. Like he's not gonna trust that James is being genuine. Like, say, for whatever shift that like, like, I think in one fic that I'm that I'm like, currently reading is he finds out about his history. And so then all of a sudden, he starts seeing him in a different way. Because that's, that's kind of what happens. Like, we don't always have that love at first sight situation, like, like, Oh, I'm friends with your friends, and we start hanging out and we're around each other. And then all of a sudden, once I get to know your personality, or who you are, you're super attractive to me, you know what I mean? Like, it's just all of a sudden, you're just like, wow, this person is amazing. I feel like that's the instance in James's court that has that feeling towards like Severus. But then there's Severus who is like, I feel like love is a trap. Love is love is a is a construct that I have seen my mother trapped in an abusive marriage, she won't leave my father. Like, it's I've, you know, I my mother loved me in a way that was, you know, she didn't really stick up for me or do anything to benefit me. Possibly Lily might have loved him at some point or does love him. And maybe she expressed that to him, and he just couldn't handle it. Like he was, you know, kind of, like, pulled into himself. So that could have been another part that damaged their friendship. Maybe they did have a romantic, you know, relationship that just fell apart because he's so broken, you know, like, wizards need therapy.

Yes they do

Wizards need therapy

They really really do and none more so than Severus Snape like he needs therapy yesterday

so much therapy. Oh my goodness. And, and so like with Lily, I could see I mean for the longest time her issue with James is how we treat Severus. I mean, let's be real like, that's really the problem and then I could see her growing closer to him and forgiving him if he owns up to that like I feel like he needs to own up to the fact that I behaved in a way that was wrong I now see Severus in a different way once we get into a poly ship like all of a sudden he's like wow I really am into this person like I never saw him as more than this super greasy greasy... the greaser that greased... all the grease in the grease [laughing]. I don't know if— it's not in this episode. In our in the birthday episode that we did. We talked about I think Snapes greasy-ness

Snape is— whenever he's described in the books like Snape peered at him from behind curtains of greasy black hair. Snape greasily greased his way into the dungeon.

Oh God, so yeah, so good. So I feel like it's it's one of those things that if Severus doesn't get there first it takes James gets is the one who probably falls for Severus. Like let's be real, like Severus has feelings for Lily. He can't accept it. Like he feels like he probably can't, he doesn't want to trap Lily into something that she eventually might want to get out of. And so it's just him loving is really hard. Like it's really hard for him to be able to do that. And almost it shows that having two different personalities be that Lily being more like confident, headstrong, but also like caring and compassionate. And then there could be James who's very loyal. I mean, it's like, you know, they're both Gryffindors, and you know, coming to Snape, but he's having two people at his side that probably want genuinely the best for him and want him to feel and be loved in the way he deserves. And even if Severus struggles with accepting it, he has double the love. You know what I mean? Like it's to reject love from someone, but to have two people being like, no, you're lovable. It's harder to deny it.

Exactly, because you're, you're convinced that there's if there's bias it's on more than one front, so it's harder to say no to.

like Oh, you're crazy. Like Lily, you're insane Why the hell would you love me all of a sudden, these two super hot Gryffindors, who everyone wants to be with is like, no greasy Severus. We want you because like for whatever reasons, like I just see him having like, maybe his mother has very, like soft and sweet demeanor, and he kind of gets those traits. But not many people get to see it because he always has his guard up. So when he finally becomes vulnerable, all of a sudden, they're just like, wow, you're like, just like a really genuine person under all of, you know, those hard exteriors that you just don't want anyone to see because you've seen your mother and just like people probably like even just in his village and town and the life that he lived like he just if you let people— if you let people in, you get hurt. And the only way to not get hurt is to not let people in.

Yeah, exactly. And you know, he's had to live that very closed off, very insular, very inward looking life. So when he saw when Snape does go off to Hogwarts and discovers this magical side to himself, I absolutely see that in the right environment and given the right amount of nurturing and support and love like you say that he could come into his own and flourish. I certainly feel like that gets into a new territory. Because it's not it's not the Snape that we see. Right now, we characterize so much of Snape by his bitterness is dejection his, you know, having lost the love of his life. But, you know, a lot of that love was obsessional. And, you know, really singular and just he was so driven. And it will be really interesting to see Snipes love in a more wholesome context. And I say that, I say that, but there's also the potential for incredible hate sex between the three.

Yes. So I so I picture this. So let's say that like, obviously the two boys are in love with Lily, duh. Lily's kinky as hell. So Lily.

Yeah, of course.

So Lily's probably like, on one hand like James like okay, so you guys are into me? Well, if I'm gonna give you any of me, you have to do something for me first, and you guys are gonna fuck?

[about to have an aneurysm from laughing so hard]

And they're just like, what? No, I would never do that. No way. And then they're just like, ugh but we love her so much. I would do anything and then all of a sudden they like Yeah, and it's just like super intense. Lily's just like, oh my god, just losing her mind because it's just like, it's so much and then all of a sudden, the boys can't get enough. They're doing it on their own terms and they're just like, Yes like like just like oh I still hate you so much but this is just like I don't know that just makes it a million times better.

and I'm sorry but there is this element with Snape and James where you can, you know, it's canonically established that they have is it jinxes or curses that like hang them upside down by their ankle? And then like and that so that you know that they're going to be into bondage, right?

Ahah! Yes.

There's restraint kink there, there's so much you could go into. I absolutely see with the stuff that used to be painful, ie the bullying becoming transformative and being used in an element of their play between each other to be like...

Yes, yeah, more like the you know, power dynamics BDSM sort of thing. Yeah. All of a sudden, like things that determined... Yeah, that bullying side of things all of a sudden, like, you know, actually I do like it when do you hit me sometimes. I and I was never going to tell you that but now I can tell you that so yeah.

yeah, exactly. There are some positive elements to Muggle duelling as well. And you know, maybe maybe people like to be choked. Who knows?

Some people, you know. Yeah exactly. [baby voice] A little spankin' here and there, you know.

Yeah, and the point is, is that James is so gregarious and gives the impression that he would know what he wants that I'm sure he is able to bring it out of Severus and you know, Lily, like you say is probably very kinky, so she's able to encourage the exploration there as well.

Okay, so picture this. The reason why James bullies Severus is because he is sexually attracted to him and he doesn't understand the fact that he's into said kinks and doesn't associate them as being like acceptable sexual expressions and then eventually they figure out that that's like either Snapes like wait you're doing this because you like me? You know it's just like okay this is like you know the the Hey Arnold Helga Pataki like after dark sort of thing like it's taking it to just a whole different level, like it's just— I love that I when I see that I'm just like okay, who's the one that has the you know the shrine in the closet? And they just worship the person but they're just super mean to them and it's like but then we think it's so cute like they're just like wow she was crazy person but yeah, I just could see that being him not realizing that what he was feeling and his draw to like hurt him was because like you know, like it was just it's just what he wanted in a physical relationship with somebody. Like then obviously he went back to the dormitory and then wanked it out for however long. He's just like why, why do I feel like this? And then who knows like whether he talks to something, somebody or you know you could see Sirius like once he turned like either you know whatever sort of age had like some kinky summer with some chick or dude and comes in like oh James like you have no idea like and he's like that's a thing?

[chuckling]

and then realizes he's like oh damn that's literally why that's that's if— I could see him just being like damn that's why I, you know, bully Severus then Sirius just be like w-what?

Yeah, yeah.

But why Snape?

And then and then once James discloses that dynamic to Sirius then I could see Sirius's like mischievious side coming out and like setting up all of these situations that would like trick them both into like role play. Oh, I need that fic I've just written like a little fic in my head that I need to see in the world.

and and like, you know, being his bro like like looking out for James I could totally see him being like they're walking down the hallway Severus coming up but he's like, levicorpus. He's just like always throwing Snape upside down so you can take a, you know, look at it, you know. His bits and his undies because James wants an eyefull. And it's like, I mean, obviously that's super noncon and rapey. But like, I just, you know, that's you can, you could see that sort of thing. Yeah

Yeah, yeah. I mean, consent is consent is important, but I have to believe as well, that once they're more comfortable with each other, they would build in non consent play to the to the elements of their consent.

Consenting non-consent

Exactly! Exactly. Because I have to believe...

Master/Slave situation

Yes, okay. No, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do more singing. No, I was gonna do a bit of Depeche Mode there, but no, we'll skip right past that. But yeah, so yeah, I could see that like Sirius is making them playlists full of music for those sexy times. Oh, this is so fun yeah

Now I'm like... [singing] let's get down to business where James beats Snape's buns.

[laughing maniacally, possibly having a heart attack] Oh my god!

I'm proud of that one.

Oh that was very good. That was very very good. I see it, I appreciate it. I'm just very happy right now.

[wheezing, trying to recover unsuccessfully]

So obviously, so obviously in my head for all of this to work it has to be that Snape doesn't fall in with the Death Eaters. He's not that, he's not in with the Lucius crowd. Obviously you know he's still a Slytherin, he's still got to be Snape. But I have to feel like because Snape is in a position where he's being loved and supported more openly and he's not ostracized and you know pushed to the side that he can accept himself more fully.

I could have I could also see on the flip side him still it's just a different reasoning behind it versus trying to keep Lily safe. That's how he becomes a spy like say he did join the Death Eaters, you know, like he's in...

As a double agent

Yes. So then now it's like of course it's— they're all in the order together Snapes able to go in there and maybe, of course, James and Lily are against it. You know, you just know that they're like, No, you can't do that or whatever. And of course, he's like, I'm already in this and I if I defect, I'm dead. Like if I'm, I'm brilliant, like I mean he knows like Snape is freaking brilliant. Like he... you can't deny how intelligent he is and how even through canon how he was able to manipulate and convince the Dark Lord and all of his followers that he was 100% involved in it. So as like hard and painful like because I could see him either obviously not being able to, you know, like communicate with them while he's like on or doing something Death Eatery. And just the I'm getting into more angst like here's my angsty fic but like James and Lily are just like so worried about him all the time. Like if he doesn't come home, like James is always like, I need to go find him and Lily's like, no, he always comes home. Like if something goes wrong, like we'll find out or whatever and they just have to live with that burden of knowing that he's constantly in danger. But they all are if you think about it, like even if they're in the Order of the Phoenix and dealing with that like and then having to live that life and pretend like say they, you know, they're they come into contact on two different sides and they have to pretend like that they're enemies and it's like, no, you're like, you're my partners like we're you know, like we're in love. We have this life together. But we're still Me and you, you know, so it's just...

yeah, I mean, I have to believe that that that tension and worry and fraught quality to, you know, are they going to be safe? Are they coming home has to lead to all of the sex as well because then that's such a, you know, a release for all three of them to be like, Oh, I'm so grateful that you're safe. And you know...

Right. Because you're physically experiencing that person. Like you're like, you're here like I know you're here because you're literally inside me right now. Like I know you're here I know you're safe because I feel safe because you're here like with me and I can touch you. I can kiss you. I can hold you and and it's... Yeah, I mean 100%. Absolutely.

you know, we're joking about the sex but also, but also is that there's just the potential there for so much healing of all of these three characters because, you know, when I originally when you originally came to me with this ship, I was like, it's got to be so exhausting for Lily. She's got to be in the middle of the two of them and having to deal with all of their, you know, egos and, you know, mortal enemies stuff from from years ago. But now I see it as much more of a, you know, if they if they do if Severus is a double agent, and James and Lily are both in the Order of the Phoenix, and really, they're both, they're all working for the same team, but they have to be covert about it and secret that, you know, that has to be a massive psychological worry for all three of them. And, and, you know, you you wouldn't be able to get through that unless you were really committed to each other. And unless you were really, you know, on the down time that you did have all the time that you were able to spend together that you could really like enjoy time with each other like I also much as I want to read you the angst and everything I also am all about the fluff where they they have their little picnic moments you know in between the dark days and and then, you know, and then there's the thing of like a you got to be able to be a good enough off Occlumens to keep all of these memories like out of your head if you're interrogated? And it's really sweet but it's also there's that poignancy there because they know that, you know, that relationship is always has to be on the knife edge of we could be rumbled we could be discovered any minute.

I like to think about all the firsts they have together like first holidays, birthdays, Christmas time, and how emotional that would be for like Severus, you know, like not coming from a loving home. And to have that and even like, oh, like well even Lily's parents like you would you would imagine that he probably had you know, like he probably went over there even if he didn't in this instance, let's say he did like he was friends with Lily. He did spend time at the Evans's and probably more time than he would at home because he felt safe there. And of course Petunia's just Petunia and she's just gonna be a brat the whole time, but for them to see him happy like with Lily and them being together probably brings them so much joy and pulls him in to be like you've been a son for a long time. Like you being together does not surprise us and we couldn't imagine, you know, our daughter being with like anyone other than you because we've seen you we know you and we know your heart. And then James being involved too I just like I just feel like I'd like to believe that both of their families would like welcome all of them together and Snape would just like explode like you're just I mean he'd have tears for probably the first couple of years of like... you know going like having Christmas and having like all of James's family or Lily's family like give gifts or just these things that he never experienced before and it's just got to be so... and it's just like so bittersweet especially for like James and Lily because they're they're seeing the person that they love opening up to love and feeling things and it's just has to be like so beaut, you know, so beautiful for them. I mean

yeah, so you know that moment in the Grinch when his heart grows through sizes and breaks that measuring glass

Yes, exactly.

And that has to be, you know, much as eventually I'm sure that Snape would come to love that life. Initially that flood of love would be like really like what do I do with this?

right, very overwhelming

exactly yeah. I'm gonna I'm going to talk about my personal life now but I went on it I went on it I went on a date once with a really lovely guy. And he had like brought— He brought me gifts, but because I had... I'd been on a string of like really bad dates before then. I was really really damaged. I was like, I don't know what to do with this. It was like because I wasn't expecting it. So that that feeling of being overwhelmed by someone's genuine affection and lovely...

Yeah, affection and kindness and yep. Mhmm mhmm.

It hits you hard, especially when you didn't realize because like you say Snape spent so much of his time being, you know, building up walls and being defensive. He's bound to not realize that that's an area that he is vulnerable in, you know, so when that hits him, it's going to hit him doubly hard. But I, I want, I want Snape to get that though. I want Snape to feel like he is loved and he is seen and he is appreciated. Because we, you know, essentially much as the the Canon books are about Harry and his journey, really they're also Snape's giant redemption arc. And we see him, you know, being heroic in his final moments, but we don't get moments of genuine Snape appreciation in canon really. So it would be nice to see those family moments and him growing as a person and growing emotionally and, and realizing as well that love isn't a weakness that it can, that can define him. You know, as much as anything else. And I don't know if it's something that— you know, as much as I'm all about the smut, the kink and the filth, I'm also all about the fluff.

I know. And the feeeeeelings.

Exactly, exactly! And I think, You know, Snape is such a wonderful character for that to happen with because, you know, he he deserves— this version of Snape anyway deserves to feel all the love and who better to give him that really then Lily who he's had this relationship with for years and James who he's had a problematic past with but who can really potentially grow with as well

so then on the other flip side of things going into a different Snape that I think we've kind of talked about was so obviously when we look at like this poly pairing it doesn't always mean like oh yeah these three three are together. Like you're either reading a fic where it's like, okay there's Lily and James and then or there's Lily and Severus and then or Severus and James and yeah blah blah. Like it doesn't have to be literally like oh yeah, there are three together and it's all harmonious. Um like what if it's Lily and James are falling in love or they're together and they're having issues and Snape is still friends, you know, with Lily and he's like the best friend she's going to with all our problems? So then he's just like, I see that like evil Patrick GIF like hmhmhmhmhm.

Yes. Yes!

And he's like ooh, like I can I can you know totally like get in the middle of them and try and break them apart. And yeah, so you get to see that dark side of Snape like for those that really see and believe, you know, him to be that sort of way versus someone worth redeeming. Obviously we can read it anyway he's super gray like we could, we can turn them into whatever we want and I could totally see him manipulating the heck out of Lily or even James. Like planting Little things like there's always those characters that you read in in different stories or movies where like, he's like, he just let something slip like— like oh, didn't Lily tell you about this thing? And then James like No, she didn't He's like, Oh, I shouldn't have said anything. You know what I mean? Like it's just like oh, I guess I shouldn't have said anything and then all of a sudden like there's the insecurities and the you're unsure and you lose confidence in the relationship and that trust in that person and it just really can really damage things a lot. But I could also see this being a like hurt no comfort situation where like in the end, no one ends up happy. Like no one ends up with whoever like Snape tries...

[gasps] Ouch

Yeah, Snape tries to get in with Lily but then Lily discovers his manipulation tactic. Her and James's relationship are is irreparable and so is hers with Severus so then they're just like nothing really came of it.

Oh my heart.

I'm sorry! I'm sorry! After that, freakin wholesome is hell fluffy fest. I had to come in with my freakin, you know, stabby stabby and I'm sorry.

I am wounded. I am hurt.

I can absolutely see that being a thing. I mean, we we know that Snape is manipulative anyway. He's maybe not as you're not as manipulative, manipulative, directly in that way of like subtly dropping hints and, you know, worming his way in but I could see him absolutely being able to do that. It's whether or not you believe that the character of Snape would go to those lengths and certainly if you are a shipper of Snapes devotional obsessional love of Lily where he has the Lily shrine and the Lily pillow, the Lily bedspread, you know.

a lock of her hair in a little box like...

oh, it just got really creepy.

It did. I mean, I'm sorry. [laughing without remorse]

like a little box of her baby teeth, you know.

NOOOOO. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. Oh, lordy.

[falling out of his chair laughing]

Roll it back, roll it back. Let's stick with the hair. Well...

Well... would would Snape have creep boundaries? You know, would he, would he know what was acceptable?

right. Would he know... Yeah, cuz he could easily be one of those like you you know when there's just those like just socially awkward individuals that just don't they just like don't have a sense of that, you know, line. They're genuinely unaware of it. I could see Snape just not knowing like it just his his— The the fact of whoever the heck his friends are, his family life, like, aside from whatever experience or time he spends with Lily, like what is he learning as far as like healthy, like decision making and behaviors toward people? Like I don't think he would necessarily know, you know, part of the time.

Yeah. And where is his support network? If we're dealing with this Snape who is very, you know, he's the very solipsistic alone Snape of, I'm just going to mega focus on one person and direct all my energy and attention there. You know, he's not really having any other basis, even in friendships to be, this is reasonable this is, you know, this is how humans interact with each other on a, you know, on a basic level where I can establish what boundaries are where it can establish what normal cutesy love is, or I can find the dynamic that would suit me, because you know, there are different love languages. And I don't mean to, you know, I don't want to Snape shame here, maybe his love language is just different and would take him a while to find that. But But you know, I could absolutely see if he doesn't get that support. And he he does go down this really driven determined road that he ends up in a really scary obsessional place about Lily. And yet that's not necessarily the most healthy version how this this polycule could could go because I, you know, and I think you're right to talk about how it could all go wrong, because they're, you know, there's a lot of very big personalities and explosive, you know, emotional volatility happening with these people. And but obviously, because I'm the person that I am, I want them to all end up

Yes, I want that. I'm always like all for the angst, all for the drama, and hurt. I mean, as long as everyone ends up perfectly in love and happy at the end, and they get there happily ever after. But we're not all that way. So it's like, hey, there's tons of opportunity for as you can see, full circle, so much fluff, so much healing so much angst and beauty and happy endings, and also crashing and burning.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. There is there is so much potential to go in any direction you want with this, which is why I think it possibly, it works as a ship as much as it doesn't because it depends what direction you take the characters in. Whereas with something like the Golden Trio, you know, there is there's established canon there to work with. With other things like the founders, you can maybe see it working more because it happened so long ago. So not only are is there no canonical basis for what their characters were like, but the societal conventions of that world were totally different than the ones that we have now. Or the ones that were relevant to James and Lily and Severus. So, but for me what's exciting, really, to talk about then, as a as a polycule, rather than just James and Lily, is it's not— I promise that it's not just that I'm only bored by het. But also, I love exploring dynamics that go beyond what is already explored in canon. And that's not to take away from things that are set up in canon that people love. I'm not here to canon bash. And you know, I'm not here to to flame on het ships, but I just love things like seeds of ideas that were maybe implicit in canon that are then explored further by ideas like this. And you know, I also love crack ships and weird ships. Look, just silly stupidness. So, you know, I'm not always that person that's trying to balance like any ship against the internal logic of Yeah, but okay, would it work? Would it actually work? I just want all ships to work. I'm coming from that place

That's why we're here. We're gonna tell you why literally all these ships work.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we don't have to apologize for that because this is a space that, you know, people do put weird people together and it works and here's why it works because it's good. And you shoud read more of it.

Yes. Yes. So obviously we talked really, you know, really in depth for both James and Severus. So now I'd like to get into Lily. So of course

Let's do that.

Yes, so of course we look at Severus's character and being like okay super gray. We can see him as you know go the dark and the light, the complexities of his character. Same thing for James, bully turned, you know, redeeming genuine caring, you know, kind person. So for Lily, why the hell does she want to be with either of those two dudes like What about them does she— what, why would she even want to mess around with anything like that? Like, even if Like they prove to her like oh I'm different like even James like I'm not the person I was like she's just like I have experienced and— so I mean same thing could be for Severus and James but it's like, I have seen you be a certain kind of way for a long time. Like, I just can't look at you in that way, you know, or like in the way like Snape treated her. Also like, you know, throughout their friendship and the choices he made. I'm just interested how you feel like she would accept their redemption, if that makes sense.

Yes, yeah. So I think a lot of this has to do with how you see Lily as a character. I've read fanfic where Lily is awful to Harry, and you know, and she's survived the— she's survived and James is alive and whatever, and they're awful to Harry and, you know, they completely redefine her character. For me for this pairing in the context of the of this, sorry, in this polycule. And for me, the only way it works is if Lily is interested in seeing the good in people, right? She's, she has that same sort of what you might call a flaw, but I just think it's a character trait, right? of seeing the best in people and wanting to encourage that to grow in others. I think Lily has a lot of overlap with Hermione for me personally, where Hermione is really emotionally mature and she's very emotionally intelligent. And she's certainly more emotionally intelligent than Ron and Harry. And I sort of feel like Lily is would be the same in this, in this threesome where she's, she is the sort of— she's not necessarily in the foreground going okay yes but now what do you think of this you know with a Flipboard scribbling away but she... I can see her encouraging everybody to talk to communicate, first of all. Because one of the things, you know, I don't want to get too into Snape again. But one of the things that defines Snape as a character really is his, his close mouthness, his ability to talk about what's going on with him. And I can see Lily really bringing that out in Snape. I can see Lily bring it out in James in a way that's not the sort of cocky bravado: Oh yeah, I'm full of Griffin dog swag you know I'm a Potter. Look at me go. You know, I can see her nurturing both of their, their vulnerabilities to a point where it doesn't become exhausting for her is the phrase. And I think she is fueled not just by a desire to want to redeem them and to make them whole but to go— Actually, you know what, because in my head Lily sort of going, the needs and desires that I have can't be met by one man. Presenting one thing and here are two guys that are you know, they have some overlap but they're pretty different people. They're pretty capable of giving me different things. And, and I see Lily as an explorationist in the scenario. She's like, yeah, maybe I want to try a little bit of everything. And she finds that exciting. You know, we've talked about her potentially being kinky earlier and I think that absolutely fits in the scenario where she's like, Oh, hell yeah, I want to try everything. You know, she's the, you know, we've talked about like dom/sub dynamics. She's absolutely the switch in this scenario where she can do both and she absolutely wants to be because she's like, yeah, you know, why would I only enjoy half of a good thing?

Yes, yes, yes.

so for me this is how Lily's character works. I know that was a really long waffling answer.

Oh no! [giggling] So like cuz you had said about like, how we, you know, interpret her character, and her seeing the good and people and forgiveness, I see that also when like Harry watches all of Stapes memories the the point where she finally puts her foot down and is like, I've made all my friends are like, they don't get why I talk to you. I've made excuse after excuse after excuse. And I've reached a point that like, it's probably ruining some of my friendships for me to keep this friendship with you. Like she probably knows the goodness in him. She knows him. She's known him forever. And I'm sure she loves him and it breaks her heart to let him go. But she had to see the aspect of like, You're toxic, you're toxic and I can't.

okay Brittany.

Yeah. [cracking up more than Humpty Dumpty falling off the wall] Yeah.

[doing a bad impression of Brittany Spears] Don't you know that you're toxic?

Um, so...

Sorry, continue. [doesn't seem very sorry]

so I definitely believe that that she if given the opportunity, even after like a cold cut like of just being like, you know what I can't. Like if he was able to take away from that realizing that like you know what she's more important to me than all these things that I feel like I needed or I needed to fit into something like the Death Eaters or the people who quote unquote are interested in him and he makes him feel included and and whatnot. Like if he were to make that shift like she would she would take him back like she would take them with open arms like she has that compassion and forgiveness. I see, I definitely see that in Lily and so the same could be said for James like because weren't they Head Boy and Head Girl?

yeah, I think, I think they had to be.

so I could see the animosity on her end still being there, like coming into seventh year, you know what I mean? But then they either have to start like working together more like have obviously they're like Head Boy Head Girl duties and coordinating the prefects and who knows what other stuff that they have to do together? And all of a sudden, she's forced to spend time with James outside of him being like surrounded by the Marauders and just being this cocky bastard. And all of a sudden she's seeing him as an individual and then I could see that romance blossoming from that. And, but if all of them were together, I could also see Lily knowing because she did make that cut and she can see toxicity and she's like, I need to walk away from this... if they were the three of them to work together or like if she was with Severus and she was with James and of course James and Sirius, or Severus are like, you know, at each other's throats. I could see her being like you know what my dudes like, figure your shit out and then give me a call, like I'm just, you know, like I'm this, I'm just gonna step out of this. Like not like a breakup but just taking that emotional distance of like. Like I've had enough of this for now like figure this out if you, you know. Like once you once you've had your you know kiss and makeup and then we'll get back to our regularly scheduled program.

Exactly. Exactly. Or she, she like gives them a wand each and like makes them stand at opposite ends of the Great Hall and just be like, just battle this out, just battle it out once and for all.

Yeah. Yeah!

And when you're done like, and she's like, no killing curses. Nothing that's gonna maim you more seriously injured. But like right just just throw each other about the Great Hall and when you're ready to be mature and grownup about this, come find me because I'm lightyears ahead of the both of you.

Exactly. And then they're all sweaty and dirty and panting and then all of a sudden they're like who's Lily?

[breaking into uncontrollable guffaws]

[infected by Megs's shrieking]

Off to the Shrieking Shack [laughing at her own joke]

and then they find Sirius and Remus in there...

Hoo-woo.

[more laughing]

[blissful sigh]

Yeah, I'm just writing— I'm just writing my own fanfic again.

Oh, for sure.

Anyway, yes. Anyway, I absolutely see that exasperated side of Lily it's got to be like listen you need to grow up before anything can happen because, you know, you because this isn't how adults behave. There is a certain amount of we're all kids once, you know, we all make mistakes we all behave in ways that we wouldn't now but you can't carry that shit with you ad infinitum you know you have to deal with this stuff. So I could see her being the, the sort of the intervention, the human intervention there to be like, sort yourselves out. Check yourself before you wreck yourselves. And then and then they do, and then it becomes sexy and all fluffy.

Yes, yes. So then how does Harry fit in this?

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Well, I have some thoughts. Oh, so I had it so I went away and thought about this whenever I was writing up our, our little document for the stuff that we were going to talk about, and I made an au. I accidentally made an au where James became sterile because of some Order related accident. But no one ever figured that out. And then Harry actually ended up being Snape's son and then Snape suspects it because he looks— but because he looks so much like James it makes all the you just like your father shades so much more pertinent, right? And then, you were talking to me because we were talking about this and then you talk to me about like okay, yes, but what if it's an M preg scenario?

Yes, yes. Yes. So like Snape is the one that's like the surrogate that like carries Harry so like that's what bonds them as a, as a, trio because it's obviously— it's Lily and James but he carries and so like, Harry's still his child, like Harry's still his so I just think that that

Snape is the seahorse.

Yes. [screeching incoherently] Yes he is.

If anyone is into, like, fan art and wants to draw Snape the seahorse... [laughing]... and send that to me, I will love you for a very very long time.

Let's put that on a T shirt.

YEAH.

You know what? It'd be perfect because... I mean you could just literally take a seahorse and you know change the colors, maybe like some greens and blacks and things. the nose is already long. You know? Like the, you know, the same nose, maybe just some flowing black locks. Oh wow, oh what is happening? [same, Megs, same]

The I don't I don't think we can account anymore for what happens in our, in our episodes or in our heads because I was just like, of course James is sterile and of course he's some secretly...

Of course it's Snape son, but he looks like James. That makes sense.

because, you know, this is okay. I just want to say though that this is a magical world like yeah, we live in it. We live in a magical world here. Why does genetics have to make sense? Because the thing about...

James magical essence like they're— just their bond, like a soul bond. Soulmates.

Oh my god, yesssss.

So like them just being together like even like it's like a soul child. Like a bit of all of them together.

Oh my goodness. [Nathan is shook]

You know what I mean? Like they're magic like what if? What if that's how babies are born? It's literally a combination of two people's magic. Well, they have three so they have three people.

and thoughts why he's the savior of the wizarding world because he's so much...

He's a poly baby!

Exactly.

magical poly baby.

oh my god, I love that much so much. I love— I think I love that more than, than Sirius and Remus raising Harry. I love that even more. That is so like how can we be so cursed and so wholesome in the same sentence?

Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea. I have no idea.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Oh so good. Oh man.

Life as a seahorse in a hurry is a magical poly baby.

yeah yeah yeah... I can't... I can't... [barely controlling laughter, sounds like she's having an asthma attack]

[sing-song voice] Thanks for listening!

it's been great See you next time!

[recovering himself... minimally] I don't know how you think our new structured approach went.

I mean, I think we, I mean we still were, like, I feel like pretty loosey goosey but I think it was good that we had like some things that we, we didn't even follow in order. I feel like we kind of just like, we picked— we definitely bounced around. If you saw our outline and what we just did, I mean I feel like it helps but we definitely still did our own thing.

Yeah, we did our own thing. We were like, yeah, I see that it might make sense to you this way, we just went, Nope.

yeah. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

so yeah, so Okay, so I think it's been a while since I actually like asked this but so Nathan, do you ship this?

Ugh. Yeah, I do. I didn't think I was going to. I'm not gonna lie because I— it's not that I was so much of a James and Lily stan that I'm like nothing can come between it, but it was just that for me I didn't see how, I didn't see how Lily would put up with the two of them or Severus would end up getting over his thing with James. But the more we've, the more I thought about it, the more I've talked about it, the more I've come round to the idea, and now I just I ship it. But I have to say I ship it with the proviso that it happens in the wholesome au where Severus gets all the love he needs...

oh yeah

And they're all kinky together.

Mmhm. And the poly Harry Chosen one magic blood baby

Absolutely

oh my god. I was— wait I don't even know if I want to say this but I was just like, oh it's like a blend of like, it's like a milkshake.

OH NOOOOO.

I don't know why I thought that!

Oh my god. Oh no. That is a whole different kind of creamy goodness.

[attempting to sing] James milkshake brings...

...all the boys to the yard. OH NOOOOO. Oh, no. Oh my god. Oh my god.

And Lily's like, this baby's not yours.

[hysterical laughing]

[I think Megs broke Nathan]

Okay, now I need them all to be in a pop group together and sing this to the Great Hall. Oh my goodness— this. I... please please somebody write this. Please.

and their band name is definitely like Snake in the Lion's Den

oh MY gawd. You have given this some thought.

[vehemently denying that she has indeed given this some thought]

oh my goodness, that is yeah yeah

or slash or the ship name just in general... like the snake in the lion's den...

yeah yeah. definitely

oh yeah

well those are episode name right there.

There we go, yes. Snake in the lion's den. Perfect.

so good... all this stuff just sort of happens on the fly. And then, and then... I don't even know. At this point I don't question... [breaking off in a fit of giggles]... I'm just happy, I'm just very happy right now.

we spent like probably 10 minutes just laughing [this is true]

yeah but that's why you're here. I mean I, I realized that when we were when we did the initial library, the initial disastrous library, I was like, our laughter is probably the most infectious thing about this whole format. So I figured the more we're having fun, the more it's gonna be enjoyed. I think anyway, unless you're like, oh my god Nathan, You're such a tit. Stop laughing.

Oh gosh, yeah, no. I think I mean hey, we're having fun. We hope you're having fun too but all in all at least we're spreading our joy out there so more positive, positive vibes, good vibes... good universe, yeah

it's a big joy milkshake, and we, we're we're inviting all the boys and girls and non-binary people...

To our yard party... [cackling like a madman]

YES

enter a wholesome picnic date with Lily and James and Severus... [breaking off into laughter]

oh my god... yeah

Oh, anyway...

anyway... yeah... we should probably...

Has been... awesome!

yeah, it I mean it went places I didn't even think we would go. I am— I feel like it touched parts of myself that I didn't know that I needed to share with the world but there we are. That is, that's, that is what happened with this i'm just— i'm really, every single episode we do, I'm like oh, this was the best one

I know. Oh, Oh, this is so good.

So what are we— what are we doing next time? Do we know?

Okay, okay, we— oh! this is fun, this is fun, this is really exciting, so we're gonna be doing Spooch.

oh yeah! Yes!

Sprout and Hooch. And actually we're going to be having the two wonderful ladies from PuffCast on. Hey yeah a guest host episode and one of our, you know, one of their friends and one of our listeners DreamQuaffle is writing us a fic for us to read which is really exciting and I— it's gonna be so much fun. It's gonna be so much fun. It's been a while since, we you know, we had BigBlackDog on. It'll be great to have a couple, you know, other fellow podcasters on and just having a great time because they've expressed they're interested in— we had them pick a ship essentially. We're just like, they're like, oh, we're really excited about this podcast and we, you know, love to collaborate on something. And I pretty much was like, hey, let us know what, you know, what are your into because we can talk about anything. And so then we settled on Spooch so that's gonna be super, super fun. I'm excited about that.

So excited for that is that is going to be legendary. And it will be— I am so excited because it will be the first time that we have other pod people on that we collab with. Yeah, I'm like, I feel like we're somehow more official now because we're doing a collab with another pod, like, I'm just really like, I'll be just fangirling in the corner going, EEEEEEEEEE all the time.

It's gonna be so much fun. So it'll be funny because we have a Ravenclaw, a Slytherin, and two Hufflepuffs.

Woah, whaaaat?

It's gonna be great, what could go wrong?

That sounds like the beginning of a bad joke, doesn't it? Like a Ravenclaw, a Slytherin, and two Hufflepuffs walk into a bar and they all order a poly milkshake.

and then everyone's like, Oh thank god the Gryffindor couldn't come.

Not that we— asterisked, subtitled— not that we want to hate on Gryffindor...

No no no no no. NO. Pro inter house unity and things and whatever.

YASSS. Big house rainbow.

Happy house rainbow. Yes exactly, or the Windows Logo. [giggling]

[also giggling. Nathan, you alright there?]

wow, okay well, I think we need to rest our lungs and unfortunately say goodbye but this has been so fun. Thank you so much, Nathan. I'm glad that you said okay to doing this ship because this is so great and I cannot wait to hear from listeners, from you guys, what, you know, what changed for you? Like it, did you come and shipping it? Did you not? Did you leave possibly shipping it? What's your favorite dynamic of these three? We want to know. Like obviously we have our points of view; we want your points of view. Every week that's what we want. We want...

[singing] We want to know if you really love this...

I can't breathe. We do need it— we do need like a Spotify like playlist.

yeah when we when, when we somehow managed to create time from the ether we'll put a Spotify playlist together. There are all these wonderful things that we want to do but yeah we will we will have a playlist eventually but the thing is we have so many musical interludes that there's going to be like seven or eight tracks for each episode.

It's not gonna make any sense either.

No no no, it won't.

It will be mostly Disney and people are like, what the fuck is going on?

Since when did anything we do make sense? That would— this would be breaking a huge precedent.

I'm 100% behind Snape's behind with my, uh, my Mulan.

Yes yes. I was not expecting Mulan when it happened. I was like I didn't know I needed this but you know I'm seeing— I'm seeing Snape with the Mulan haircut. It's it's all...

Well yeah. He can have the hair long enough; he can do like the little bun thing and...

Exactly yeah!

[singing] Be a man... [pause for more laughing]... okay, okay, we

we need to wrap up. We've said goodbye like 50 times already 15 minutes ago yeah we need to wrap up now. Okay bye!

This has been great! Bye, this is next week and... SCENE.

okay, so you— but you did say about like into house unity or like the Windows logo. So instead of saying by when we sign off this week, I'm just going to go... doo doo doo doo [approximation of the Windows log off sound]

perfect. just literally shutting down.

shutting dowwwwn

Shutting down, not restart.

Wait? Why are we still going? Look, we need to say bye like, we love you but...

We do. We do, like seriously goodbye. [laughing as music fades in]

Doo doo doo doo

[I ship it]

Why not just James Lily? Oh, I freakin this. I love that. That's great. Are we bored by het?

Yes. Yes, we are.

[voice cracking] Or is it just boring to explore relationships that are already established in canon? Oh my god, the shame. Like Sorry Romione, sorry Hinny. Sorry, guys. Oh my god, we're so sorry.

I know. But to be fair, if you want that you can literally go to the books.

Anyway, we see you. We respect your love for it. And that's awesome. It's so great. We love that you love it. We. need. more.

[I ship it]

While you're waiting for the next episode, all the shipping fund can continue online. You can head over to all of our social media platforms like magicalshippod on Twitter and Instagram, and careofmagicalshippers on Tumblr. You can get in touch with us by email at careofmagicalshippers@gmail.com or you can leave us a voice message with all of your ship and fic thoughts and feels and have the chance to be featured on a future pod episode. We are also live on Patreon. Patrons have access to early episodes, bonus content, extended uncut episodes with all of our nonsense, ficlits written by me, exclusive merch, and a patron Discord. Another easy way to show your love for the pod is by leaving a review on Apple podcasts and thank you so much for listening.