You're listening to cubicle to CEO episode 196. This interview kicks off a three episode series centered on growing your revenue through referral and word of mouth marketing. Our first guest is Amanda Walker, host of the best damn coach podcast and a master performance coach who went from making $623 paychecks as a high school teacher to building a million dollar coaching business helping service space entrepreneurs 10x their client results so they can grow their impact in profit. Research shows that the number one way qualified leads make decisions is based on word of mouth referrals and customer references. Yet many service providers are drowning so much in client delivery, but they often miss the opportunity to capture and, quote sprinkle client results like confetti and everything you do, as Amanda would say. Her case study examines the three specific ways she started leveraging and repurposing client results to attract more than $1 million in coaching contracts with no audience, website or even social media to begin with. Amanda also explains the difference between informal and formal testimonials and why shifting toward informal testimonials will help you build greater trust with your audience. Keep listening to hear how you can make the most of this underutilized, low cost marketing strategy.
Welcome to cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes. Subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday
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Hey, friends, we have Amanda Walker with us here today. Amanda, welcome to the show.
Well, thanks, I'm so excited to share and to be with you. I'm an avid listener as well. And so it's nice to be on the flip side.
That is my favorite when when we get to actually feature our listeners. So if you're listening to this, you could be a Sunday guest of cubicle to CEO, and Amanda, I am thrilled to share your case study with our listeners today. I think it's a really interesting one that we haven't dived into much before, which is how to leverage your Client Results and testimonials to actually grow your business. But before we get to that, you know this, since you are a listener of the show, I want to hear your cubicle to CEO story, especially because you come from a background as a teacher used to make $623 paychecks now you've made more than a million dollars in your coaching business. So what was that leap for you from school system to you know, being your own boss?
Yeah, it feels like worlds away a little bit. Now as I come back to it, but I just see now it's always interesting how you can look back hindsight, it's like you just see it all was building up for you to get into this moment. I want to go even before that, because this is an interesting, my first ever job was coaching. And so I got hired at the age of 15 to work with kind of inner city youth coaching basketball. And that was my first kind of, I don't know this moment where I got to see the impact of what it meant to help another human being like elevate into their purpose and to shine their light. And I love that feeling. And so it was kind of the domino of the rest of my life, which formed through service and sense of a servant's heart. And so, went to college decided that I wasn't going to be a doctor as I thought I was going to be bounced on the pre med journey decided, which got a graduate degree after undergrad in teaching and coaching and ultimately led me to high school and I loved that I loved being with the people. And while it isn't an official cubicle, I mean, the classroom is kind of a cubicle, you don't leave it, you are trapped in it, there's little interaction, and it does get in that same kind of rat race idea. And I did love my students.
But the real turning point for me was when I had my first child, and it's like, all of a sudden, everything you thought about life is flipped upside down. Because the relevancy and impact of your legacy is shifting. Like I thought my legacy was teenagers until I had a child and I was like, Okay, this is my legacy. And so after our second kid, my husband at the time worked for our city SWAT team, so our life was pretty honestly up in the air, there's there's no consistency in anything we did in our life. And so we had at that point decided I would work the days. So I kind of cut back in my teaching and taught, you know, around three fourths of the day. And he took the night shift.
And I remember one very clear morning, it wasn't like anything extra special. And I think this is true for a lot of people, it just becomes the tipping point where you're like, enough is enough. And I remember it was early in the morning I had just woke up, it was still dark outside. And my toddler was kind of the first one up and just as I'm starting to get her geared up for the day, I hear my infant my second at this time crying. So I've got like, Baby on one side toddler on the other. And I'm like racing time to try to get myself ready for work. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for my husband who typically comes off shift around 2am and he's still not home. And so it's that franticness of like, oh crap, what are we going to do if he doesn't make it? I'm like trying to get dressed and clothes that don't fit me? Well, because I'm three months postpartum was like every moment of like, what are we doing this for? And so I hear the door kind of jiggle he comes in. We literally like slap hands, little kiss and off, I'm headed in.
And I remember that morning, just getting into my car. It was like the world at everything's like from the movie, right? Everything just slowed down. And I remember just driving by this, like daycare that was on my way and just seeing like a lot of these babies. And it was like 6:30 in the morning and feeling a lot of gratitude that we were in a situation that we didn't have to do that that was aligned for us. But I was like, for what purpose? For what purpose? Am I doing this bringing home, you know, $623 paychecks, by the way that's every other week after benefits and all the things were taken out for what purpose? And so I don't know that sometimes we're talking about wanting more.
But for me, what I was able to identify was the restlessness I was feeling and the hesitation was just that I hadn't tapped into my whole purpose and my full potential and that made me restless. And so it was that day that I just decided, I don't have a plan, by the way, but I'm quitting my job came home and told my husband, I'm not going to teach something will pan out like I have a skill set. I love people. I know how to surf, and something will fall into place. And so yeah, that was my cubicle moment to then really falling in. My business began in the Health and nutrition space, after kind of going through my own personal journey and having a background in physiology, that's really where I grew exponentially through business. And through that experience, and the things that I'm going to share today, is what really set my heart on fire to teach more people to kind of leverage the things I'm going to talk about and build a sustainable practice that you really love.
First, I just have to commend you, I think you're such a beautiful storyteller. I was very enraptured by your story and the details I could really visualize, I could see you headed out the door, just like barely brushing shoulders with your husband, and then just sitting in the car and feeling that time slow down. I agree with you wholeheartedly that oftentimes, it's not a single catalyst that, you know, propels us into the next thing in our life, it really is that compounding effect of all of these things, and kind of finally coming to the realization of like, exactly for what purpose Am I doing this, or how Is anything going to change unless I change it? So I just again, I'm very inspired by your own story of your leap into entrepreneurship.
And what's so cool is, and what attracted me really to the case study that we're going to talk about today is a lot of our listeners, I hear over and over again, from our audience, that one of the greatest barriers that they perceive to their business growth is their lack of, essentially, audience, right, they have a very small audience, especially when you're starting out sometimes even years into the journey, you feel like you have a very small reach or a small audience that it's not made any easier by algorithm changes, and all of the, you know, constant updates to social with most people online primarily using social these days as a way to reach new people.
So I was attracted to your case study, because you are talking about how client results, leveraging and repurposing client results. And testimonials have really organically grown your business without requiring you to have a large audience because you're really tapping into the age old concept, you know, far before social media existed of the power of word of mouth. So I want to first before we even get into the details of this case study, I want you to share with us your hot take on why you believe word of mouth is so powerful, and maybe even more powerful than any other form of marketing channel or strategy.
I mean, for me, it's the fast track to trust. And if we look at something as simple as needing a plumber, or a roofer, you know, even though the Yellow Pages once existed, that was also kind of like worst case scenario, I'll just open up the Yellow Pages, what we first do is text our friends and family and say, Do you know somebody that can help create this desired results? Right, and immediately, we got that feedback. And I think, fortunately, or unfortunately, I guess it's just a perspective that you might have, as we've gotten away from the belief that that actually still exists. And I think that that's a problem, especially for new business owners, because we're attracted to sexy marketing tactics, like I'm going to run ads.
And there's a lot of companies, coaches that, that that's their first line mechanism. And I'm not saying that's wrong, it's not a great fit. For me personally, that can be one of the buckets, right? But I always am to coaching my people, like don't put all your eggs in just that bucket, because I've had friends close accounts and like business came to a screeching halt, right. And so I just believe that, for me, when I dream about my business, I never had a dream of like, I'm going to hit this mark in one year, or I need to make this amount of money, and a few years. And what I did was think about like 10-15 years, whatever that looks like, I want to love this thing, still, whatever it might be. And the way that that's going to happen is to organically attract clients that I love serving. And there's a lot to be said about fast track to trust when it comes to referrals.
There's so much wisdom in your mindset around. I mean, that's I think that's really rare for a lot of people. I mean, I think it took me years to really grasp this concept of legacy and, and creating something like you said that will sustain for decades and sustain not only revenue wise, but sustain your energy and your love for the work you do. So I am very impressed that you started out with such a clear vision of wanting to create something that was sustainable for you.
And you have developed this three step strategy, which we're going to get into in a moment on how to actually leverage client results. And I want you to share it from the perspective of your own business. So like I already alluded to, you have generated more than $1 million in your coaching business, your company, on average makes over half a million dollars a year. So that is a very successful business purely off of organic word of mouth marketing. So step one is belief that's step one in your system. Can you share with us? When you first started in coaching, what was your audience size? What year was this? And did you have any form of reaching people outside of social like an email list or was it contained to just you know people you actually knew in real life and the people online who followed you.
Yeah, I think this is interesting. I had zero audience, I had no idea what email marketing is, I didn't even know what an email list was to be honest. I was lucky enough to be surrounded by a friend who happened to be a personal finance blogger. And my first ever conference that I attended to learn about business or online market was actually a financial conference. And I was probably the only health fitness professional in the room. But I learned so much from being around those people. I was just like, inundated with like, I was like drinking from a firehose, but it was just so amazing.
So I had zero audience. And truthfully, the pattern that I began to notice that I think is really important to this is that, as I said, I was in health and nutrition space. And part of what inspires people often is our ability to shine our light and our journey and our transformation, right, which you do beautifully, as well as so many people that, you know, I love following and being in their world, because when people see these average bears, let's call them like, I'm just average. And I always say like, I'm not a unicorn, I believe anybody can do it if they have the belief and the desire. But as I started transforming myself, organically conversations happened. And then people began to come into my world, and they were literally my friends and family.
And I think this is important to hit because I see a lot of my coaches downplay that in the beginning, they will say like, oh, but it's just my aunt opening up, I'm like, Yeah, but she might be your ideal client. And she might provide you the opportunity that you've been waiting for. So let's not dismiss that. They're getting an opportunity to see you in this new light and this new role and this new identity, and you might be the exact solution to the problem. We all start there. Right. And so that's really truthfully what happened is, the gyms I was a part of our conversations started happening when I was out in public. I mean, I wasn't sending emails, I didn't even have social media at this point at all. And I like to point out that the first year of social media, for me was literally pictures of food, because I was deathly afraid of I had massive impostor feelings around showing my face. And so it took a lot of work for me to work on number one, actually, which is build belief to show up in a new way and begin to embody truly what it takes to be a CEO.
Yeah, I know, so many people can relate to that wanting to hide behind their content, as in their products, but not who they are in their story. And one thing about belief that I found really interesting, you shared this in your pitch, so I wanted to bring it forward, you wrote the fastest way to drive results is to increase certainty, not more strategy. And you mentioned that you have a research supportive formula to build belief. So when thinking about yourself in that position, you know, back when all you shared was food on social? How did you start to take those steps to tangibly build belief and certainty in your own life? And how have you translated that to the work that you now do with clients?
This one's so good, I love I love planning out anytime we have evidence based formulas. This is not my research. But in peer reviewed research, specifically in the athletic performance space. And I'm a former athletes, obviously, health and fitness is my background originally. And so I love looking at performance work, because it does translate into what we're doing in business. I always tell my clients like your launches, like that's your Olympics, right? So we want to think and prepare for those as well. And so they took athletes from a plethora of sports and really looked at what are the two critical elements and factors variables needed for them to increase their confidence in their ability to produce results. And it really came down to two things.
And that was belief, self belief. But the lacking thing that where I would see say most people is evidence. And so what I mean by that is, how are we internally in our brain collecting evidence for ourselves in the direction of our vision and dreams, or against ourselves. And in the beginning, it's very easy to look at, let's just use social, look at a post and say, it only has two clicks, but a wild reframe is, oh my gosh, two people clicked right or two people viewed. And so this is a really critical phase in the beginning is certainty drives results.
The reason we're not taking action truthfully has nothing to do with strategy from the beginning. It has to do with the lack of our ability to see the evidence is actually mounting for us. And to actually believe, I believe is a switch, really, and that's hard to wrap our head around. You can take tangible ways. Absolutely. There's tangible ways to increase belief. But when those two things are actively driven, or their self awareness around them, it is inevitable that you will create more massive action. And the strategy I don't want to say is irrelevant, but it's like pick one and keep going and you're going to see the fruits of your labor.
I would I would tend to agree with that actually, especially in in in the context of what you said at the beginning, right? This obviously, if you are already a well established business and you're trying to make these micro iterations to strategy to jump from, let's say 1.5 million to 3 million, there may be actual strategy that is involved to make such a leap. But in the beginning, when you're just trying to make your first dollar, really your first $100,000, I think a lot of it has to do more with your inclination for action, rather than the specific strategy or plan that you follow.
I also wanted to just as my own anecdote, share that, you know, when we made our pivot from being primarily an education company, or coaching business to a media business, it was really fascinating for me to watch the changes and how people took us seriously, or the reception that I received, the moment I changed my own identity and how we talked about our business, the moment, I just flipped the switch, like you said, and started introducing our business as we're a media company, even if the person on the other end was like, I don't even know what that means, for some reason, just us fully standing in our power of saying, This is who we are, this is what we are instantly increased, you know, potential Brand Partners belief in us that we had, you know, a solution for them.
And it was really interesting, because, I mean, overnight, nothing actually changes in your business. But just even saying that out loud. And owning that identity really changed how other people perceived us and how willing they were to work with us in that manner. So I can see why this belief is so powerful. And I'd love to know for you when you were starting out, you know, going to gyms and just meeting people and whatnot, do you have some memories of some of the ways that you started to form that certainty or belief, even if it was like dialogue in your own head? Can you share that with us?
Yeah, I would love to just add a caveat to your story, too, I think that directly translates to any service provider, what I'll hear and languaging. And this is important for your listeners is even and how you communicate about your business in your home or to your friends, what I'll sometimes hear is, I'm just building this little side hustle, or it's just this baby business. Or, you know, for me, in the beginning, it was like, Oh, it's just like a hobby because I was downplaying it, because fear, right, because I didn't really know what I was doing. But those words matter.
And this is such a critical teaching inside my program is when we throw that into kind of a, what I call a thought model, when we think the thought this is a baby business or a side hustle, then the feelings we feel from that are often doubt or shame. And when we're taking action in our business or and I live from doubt and shame, we're not showing up, like you said, in the identity of a person who's going to become a six figure, business owner. And identity work is just so critical to the journey and belief is part of shifting your identity. And nobody else has to believe if it's true, or a fact, like as long as you believe that I am I run a media company, this is who we are right? I run a coaching practice, I am the best damn coach, it matters if I believe that and that is, you know, a huge part of the process, I think of successful entrepreneurship.
I love that caveat. And then bringing it back to where you were when you started, any anything come to mind for what you shared for to yourself or practice to build that certainty and belief.
I think that there are absolutely moments where, especially when you're serving and you're responsible for somebody else's transformation, there is opportunity to I want to say hold 100% responsibility around how people take action. And I think that's a really important part of coaching is to understand that we are the guide, right? We're like an a bowling alley. We are those like bumper bumper things, but ultimately, the clients throwing the bowling ball. And in the beginning, it's very easy to want to go down the nonbelief like I'm not doing enough, I gotta helicopter them, I want to be all over them. And that is, you know, part of the struggle in the beginning.
So the evidence collection against is where I think for me, I saw the greatest missing link for me. And as soon as I started finding ways through journaling, through even like when I was a teacher, I used to do this, my students used to bring me letters or cards right? I kept a file. And that file was my evidence collection and I want to bring that over into our business like are we doing that? Are you creating that client win place? Are they sending you screenshots? Are they sending you emails? Can you create a folder like I have a physical album on my phone, that's client wins, which I'm going to talk about and why that's important in a moment. But that's also most important for me because what that is, is it creates the habit of me collecting evidence for the things I'm doing rather than the opposite.
Ooo I love that. And I could not agree with you more how important it is to keep a record of all the positive feedback that you get from your clients and your community, even if they're not paying customers. I think it's important, like you said, to collect the evidence, because we have, cognitively As humans, we have negativity bias, right, we could receive 100 glowing reviews, and one unhappy customer can really throw off our entire viewpoint of ourselves and our success and the impact that we're making. And it's so easy to focus on the negative. So I really like that you broke down the science behind why it's so important to reframe every moment that you can to try to view it as how am I collecting evidence for myself instead of against myself? Thank you for that first step.
If we dive into step number two, right, step two is all about creating and curating client testimonials. I'm going to quote you again, because you shared some great insights, even ahead of this interview, that really got me thinking, you said create opportunities to identify benchmarks and milestones, and collect those results. And what I love about what you shared here, it wasn't even like notice, or start collecting results and testimonials, it was create opportunities to identify benchmarks milestones, that was just such a, a MicroShift. But it really is different than just I guess, passively waiting for someone to tell you, Hey, you really helped me out. So talk to us about that process? What does it look like to actually create those opportunities to measure benchmarks or milestones?
I think it comes from day one, when you begin to work with someone in some capacity. And obviously, coaching is what I'm most familiar with. But I think this goes to any industry in some sort of measurable way, even if you're a product based or or brick and mortar. But from day one, there has to be a discussion in some capacity that clearly identifies the outcomes that are desired through that coaching experience. And I think this is one of the biggest mistakes I see coaches make is they have a client, and they have an agenda. Not intentionally, but unconsciously, because they're like I have this framework. And I walk through clients from point one to two to three to four. And unfortunately, that doesn't always work.
In the perfect world, the majority of times, our clients don't move at the cadence for which we believe. And so when we have that what we do is we we miss out on opportunities to meet the client truly where they're at. And that's where like masterful coaching really happens. And so, from day one, we want to set clear boundaries. And I like to say like use the analogy of if you and I were playing darts, what some coaches do or some service providers do is they create a blank dartboard has no circles and no bullseye. And so we're taking action, and we're throwing darts, but there's no like, check in like, are we getting closer or not? So from day one, what we want to do is clearly identify at the end of this coaching journey, what would you say would be like wild success? And we want to clearly state that and know that because I can't read your mind and know exactly, and we have to have language shared between the two of us.
And then from there is we also need to make sure that there is some sort of measurable way. For instance, I want to feel more confident. Okay, well tell me then, like what does more confident actually look and feel like, we want to make sure that there is a bullseye. So it's like first is getting clarity as the rings. And then we want the bullseye so we know exactly how to measure and this is true of anything, right? What we measure can grow. And from there, we can create the touch points to check in on that which could look like a variety of options.
You're speaking my love language, Amanda, I, okay, I want to pull out the example that you just shared because this is like something that I feel like if everybody who's listening to this show today could grasp it will radically change the success of your marketing and your ability to communicate how you actually create results for people.
So let's take the example that you share You said someone might tell you Oh, my idea of success is that I am more confident and like you mentioned Amanda, most people would take that very surface level answer and go okay, great. But like you also pointed out there is no actual way to measure whether someone is more or less confident unnecessarily without providing parameters around what competence implemented actually looks like and so I think where most people get held up and I'm speaking more, not even so much from the side of coaching but more from like my world of you know, course creation and creating a program that results in a tangible outcome. A lot of people say well, you know, I don't work in finances or I don't coach in business. So it's like I can't like tie my clients results to a number like X amount of money earned, right so they Think therefore it can't be tangible.
But I always tell people, like you said, Amanda, if someone wants to be more confident, and you ask them, if you were more confident, what would that actually look like in your life in terms of the behaviors and actions you're taking, that you're not taking today? And if they said something like, oh, well, if I was more confident, when I make a decision, I wouldn't second guess myself and text like five different people asking essentially, for approval on the decision I made. If I stopped that behavior, that to me means more confidence. And that is something that is measurable, even though it's not tied to a number, right?
100%. And then the extension of that is, then as the coach, we have to check in on that along the way. And the ways we can check in on that. And so this is all included in the client notes, right. And it's our responsibility as the practitioner to monitor that. And so that could be just a verbal discussion, like, every time we're together, or once a month, we're like, Hey, how's that decision making? And then if they tell me, Well, I only text my best friend, we're like, progress, right? We went from five people to one people, right?
So then I might say, well, what would have to happen for you to not text your bestie, right, and so then we will be able to, like continue to grow from that element. And so those check ins and milestones can be as simple as informal discussions like that. But that could also come from a form that we curate, and we send to the client weekly, or, you know, twice a month, or monthly or whatever the case is, or a scale, right, a rating scale of one to 10, or one to five, or it could be through a box or check in, right, which is how I support some of my one to one clients.
So there's such a variety of ways. And what I find is, practitioners are doing some of these things already. And if you're listening, and you're like, well, I already do that. But my question is like, are you hitting the bullseye? Is there opportunity to get a little bit more granular? And then most importantly, are you creating the platform for them to be able to share these wins back to you. And that's where I see most people missing because they're so inundated with running a business. And they have like this magic happening, and they're not collecting it at in any way. And that's important because we want to show tangibly like this is what's happening because there's times in the coaching relationship where people will say, it's not working, I have not made progress, right. And this is where this becomes so important. We can say, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's look like let's go back and backtrack a little bit and see just like actually how much progress you've made.
Hey, coaches, it's no secret the coaching industry is crowded, right? It seems like so many other amazing coaches are also doing what you're doing. So how do you stand out? How do you get your unique voice in front of the right people who need your approach? My friend Amanda Walker has a free masterclass to help you stand out. In fact, during this 60 minute, no fluff all action based workshop, she shares the three secrets to standing out as a coach without spending even $1 on marketing. Go to Amanda-walker.com/masterclass to watch. Again, the link is Amanda-walker.com/masterclass will also drop a clickable link in the show notes.
Oh, I feel is like in my bones, because, you know, that joke that people used to say about social like pics or it didn't happen, you know, like, Oh, like this happened, you're like, Okay, well, where's the photo proof. It's essentially like what you're saying here. Amazing things could be happening for your clients. But if you document them in a methodical way, then you essentially, when you're asked to present the evidence, either to yourself, to continue to build that belief or to your client to encourage them when they may be stuck, there's really no place to point to right?
I love how you shared some of the unique ways that people can, whether they're a coach or any other form of service provider can check in with their clients like forums and reading themselves on a scale of one to 10 in terms of how they feel about something or just even in informal discussion, like you mentioned, is there any other way that you have developed platforms? Because now you're a business coach? Right, whereas previously, you were in health? You mentioned that for most people, the mistake is that they don't have the right platforms to collect the information. So what does that look like in your business? Like, what are some of the platforms or practices that you religiously use to collect and document these results?
This definitely depends on the client. First off, because if I'm working with a corporate performance coaching client, let's say in an in somebody's business, which is something I love to do, then those are going to look more form based because I'm probably working with an executive team. And so I use type form as a platform typically, to collect and measure some of those things. And then I love pulling that, you know, and actually turning it into data graphs that I can take back and physically show the executive team of like, here's where we were, and here's where we are.
In my group coaching program, a lot of this happens inside the community and depending on where you hold your community, it could be something like Facebook community or the heartbeat app, if you know if you're familiar with that, those are great places. And so you can be intentional and create like a client wins hashtag or client wins thread or this could be in Slack or wherever. And this is an open place a where we just say, like, let's celebrate.
So inside my program, I love eliciting that from my coaches tell me what your clients are doing. So they're like, my client, it's not just about sales. It's just like, my client, you know, just told me that this really works, right, and let's share, like I had a client in the group the other day that she started sending this, like, she just used this really cool strategy sending this gift before somebody even signed on inviting them. And it was like this amazing thing. Those are the kinds of things I want to hear about. And so you could do that inside community. And then definitely, I mean, emails, not outdated, I still have people sending me emails, I'm not I'm here for that. But Voxer is definitely one of like, the most common ways, especially with one to one clients, where it's just an intimate place where they're, they get so excited that they want you to share with you like this happened. And so those are probably my personally right now, platforms where that happens the most.
Thank you. I love how you keep it simple. By the way, that's really the best way to stay consistent, right? With any sort of practice. I feel like I would be missing an opportunity for listeners, if I didn't ask you on those more formal collection platforms such as let's say typeform where you're actually creating a form for someone to fill out. What are your top three questions that you always try to ask to really elicit the best responses.
And I asked this from the perspective of I often hear that when we ask something like, Hey, what's a win you've had? Or hey, would you be willing to share a testimonial about your experience working with me that it can feel so broad that we either get really general responses that are not actually very specific or measurable? Or people don't respond at all? Because it just feels like, Oh, this is a lot to ask. And I have to sit down and think of a whole like testimonial and whatnot. So are there any specific questions that you've used that have been powerful in your business for generating the most impactful client results?
Yeah, I would love to just like also point one thing out that I have discernment around. And that is the difference between formal and informal testimonials. And so I would say the type form tends to be the more formal component, right? And we collect these and there are questions that we ask and then formal for me means this is what we're maybe putting the cute little quote boxes around and splashing on our website or using in carousels on, you know, Instagram or something like that. And I don't think those are out of date by any means. I think they're fantastic.
And this is kind of leading us I guess, in my step three, which is repurposing, but I do believe that more effective than that are these informal splashes of feedback, because they're unsolicited, I did not go to the person and say, can you tell me about that, they were just so excited about working with me, or the method that I taught them, or some sort of action they've taken that they shared that back. And why I'm sharing that is, I want to encourage people to take advantage of utilizing more of those and to understand and create places for that to happen. When we're on the other side, the more formal questions, the thing I would encourage is to not necessarily just say, Can you leave me a testimonial?
The reason being is we have to educate our audience about testimonials, they actually don't know often what a testimonial is, and what should be included. And so if we get more granular with things, maybe this is at the end of the coaching relationship, be specific. And so things I like to ask are, you know, if you think back to before working with me, can you describe specifically where you were at? Right? What were your greatest struggles, and I like to paint it really just like you do is in the form of a case study, like, tell me about the beginning, because that really reflects the journey overall. And so we're looking at more of a longer term. So I've got the beginning.
And then often a question I might ask is, what from your perspective has been the greatest struggle you've overcome? And how did you overcome it? And so that gives them the opportunity say, this was the pain point. And here's what we did together. And that's why it was extremely successful. And then we take them to the end. And often a question is, if you were to guide another human being to work with me, what do you think like, what's the greatest value of working with me? So we take them through that, you know, whole thing and I've got this past present future kind of experience. And so that would be more, I guess, at the end of a coaching relationship, but I also think these milestones could look more like if you think about your primary goal right now, you know, where do you feel like you are in accomplishing it?
You could even give them a scale like scale of one to five five being like I've nailed it. I'm ready to move on to the next thing. One being like I'm not Not even close, because that gives their perspective too. So I think those are just maybe some samples of depending upon where you're at, or what you're looking for that might be really valuable.
Super, super helpful and valuable. Thank you, Amanda. And I love also that you brought in this into the equation, the distinction between informal and formal testimonials and, and how you believe that informal can sometimes be even more effective. You mentioned that the way you primarily characterize an informal testimonial or a result is that it's unsolicited. You're not necessarily asking for them to answer a specific question. They're just you know, sharing their excitement or their win with you. So I'm curious, because this is just the way my brain works. And I'm sure there are other listeners who feel the same way. Can you share an example of how you are able to create or foster an environment that allows for unsolicited client results, like maybe even point to a specific example recently in your business where you got one of those and how that came to be?
I think it's begins at the beginning of a coaching relationship. First off is just understanding when you have the potential to talk with a client lead is understanding what the red flags are for somebody that's not necessarily a best fit. And then also what really looks like a best fit for you. And the reason I say that is, because there is immediate rapport built when we say yes to somebody we're going to work with and we need to know what the red flags are. And you're going to learn that over time, you're going to serve the people, you're going to learn what the red flags are by serving the people that you don't end up feeling aligned with. And as you move through that relationship and that journey with someone, then I think this is where the mastery of coaching comes in, as well as understanding the physiology and creating of building rapport with your client, and creating a space and fostering celebration as a regular part of the process.
So if we do it together, right, every time we're on a session together, or every time I'm in a group coaching session, then we feel confident and comfortable in shining our light, which I think especially as women, right, this is something that many of us are struggling with, in general is to show up and authentically have spaces where we can say like I did that thing. And so that's where I think it's really built in the beginning and creating that environment.
But recently, literally yesterday inside the BDC, we were talking about belief, we're in a belief and sales kind of curriculum month. And one of the things that a client was sharing what she very quietly was like, Well, I got a new client. And we're all like, wow, like this is a big deal. And so she was wanting to downplay it. And we were talking about evidence collection. And so I simply said, Hey, would it be okay with you if we just or rewind? Would you mind saying that again? And would it be okay, if we all collectively, like cheered for you out loud. And she's, of course, and so we did that with her permission. And I was like, how's that feel? She's like, honestly, that felt really freaking good.
And so I think it's pausing and creating spaces where we don't just overlook and quickly move to the next thing, because I'm a massive overachiever. And so like, part of why I'm sharing this is because I need this to, I want to move to the next thing. And I have to be intentional about stopping and going, Yeah, but like, I was a teacher, I never thought I'd make a million dollars in my life, right? And here I am. And so we have to just really, you know, sit for a moment and see the value of what this holds, and just our everyday life to not just business.
That's incredible. What I took away from what you shared, is that celebration is a habit that needs to be practiced in order for it to be natural. And I guess, I mean, that makes complete sense logically, but like, I guess I never just really thought about it that way. Like you, you have to almost instill this habit in people and allow them to practice over and over and over again, in big ways and small, how to celebrate. And it's kind of funny, because you would think it's just like a natural human reaction to celebrate when joyful things happen, or good things happen to us. But you're right, depending on how we grew up, or the norms in our society or just your personality type. It could be very easy to just move through it without giving it even a second thought.
And I love that you are guiding people to do that practice so that when the time comes when they have a really big one that they want to share with you. It's just so second nature, because they've done it 100 times before, you know, that's so cool.
I agree with you.
Okay, so our final step in your three step system. Amanda is repurpose. I think this is the one where people probably had the least clarity on in terms of how to effectively use their client results. I think maybe all of us at some point or another have collected some amazing results, but they just kind of sit in a file folder on Dropbox or in our phones, you know, in this stack of screenshots, so tell us about how you use your Client Results in your business and the different ways that you repurpose them.
Yeah, I agree with you 100% on that, too. And sometimes it's not even I don't know what to do, it's simply, I haven't made this a priority to do it. Because maybe I'm not sure how or I don't see the value in it. But going back to the initial is, this is where we build immediate trust, because we show evidence that we are who we say we are. And we are creating the results that were promised. And here is evidence of that. So this is where this actually came to me.
I want to share just the backstory is where I started to see this and started leveraging this back in the very beginning was I would have somebody maybe at the gym, where I worked out, come to me and say, Oh, I saw so and so. And we were talking and she told me like all these amazing things that were happening for her. I would love to know more about that. And so I was like, oh, all these clients keep coming to me. And I don't know what I'm doing in business, but they're coming to me because I'm creating results. And so how do I do more of that. And so as my business began to grow, I asked myself, How do I extend these conversations to let people know that this is actually happening.
And so I think I've been podcasting now for I don't, honestly, I can't remember what year I started the podcast 2019, maybe 2018. And so one of the first places I started sharing, this was on the podcast. By this time, I've started an email list. And so like I was a year or so into business, I started growing an email list because somebody told me Hey, you should. And so I started sharing like one win a month and sharing one kind of case study or a testimonial that was honestly not that great if we look back. But I was like, here's some before and afters right, both the physical piece, which I know doesn't apply to many businesses, but also the quantitative and qualitative outside of them. And then I started inviting those guests or my clients, at least one time a month on the podcast. And so every month, we would showcase a client success story. We've maintained that across the board.
And then as we've grown, you know, the other thing is, we added a second email to our weekly newsletter. So we send out newsletters on Tuesday that drive traffic to the podcast, but Fridays are with the client when Friday. And so I share a very raw example, always included is a snapshot of an informal testimonial. And I tell the story to give context around that particular informal feedback that was gifted to me from a client. And at the end, I always say this is an example of what's possible for you to and so it's to again, it's like planting seeds.
And that's the important part to address to is in emphasizes, this is about seed planting over and over. Right. I think I just heard a statistic that we used to be seven or nine touches before somebody took action. I think we're at 21 to 31 is what I hear I don't I don't know if that.
Okay, that's fascinating.
But I heard that I was like, Oh, that's so curious. Right. So that means like, be patient, but keep planting seeds. And then I started seeing and what really caused me to double down on this strategy over time was then when I would get on sales calls and people would start joining programs, they would reference those specific episodes, those specific posts, those specific emails, and I just realized that the power of seeing somebody else's transformational story is what really inspires people into action, because they see like, okay, it's possible for me too.
I am fascinated, by the way that stat, the updated stats of how many touch points it takes for someone to really take action I hadn't heard about the new one, I was familiar with the age old, I guess advice is seven to nine. So I'll have to look into that because I'm very, very intrigued. But I'm not surprised to because just the pure volume of information we're inundated with these days, it can be very easy to check out right to to now and to not really pay attention to the content we're being served. And so it makes sense that frequency matters.
I really like that you use story in such a way to help others see themselves in your clients successes, right? And like you said, see what's possible. I did want to do an add on thought to what you had shared you tracking, I guess what ultimately led a client to sign up with you and then referencing like specific episodes or specific emails where you share those informal testimonials so that you would know okay, this this strategy is working.
We implemented something very similar for my old mentorship program, the one that we retired last summer. We used to have on the onboarding form when they would join the membership. One of the questions was like what is the last thing you saw or consumed of ours that made you decide to finally say yes, and that was really fascinating, Amanda because to your point, a lot of the things were related to the podcast and the case study specifically that we shared on the podcast. And so that was just a little golden nugget that you shared that I wanted to make sure our listeners really caught and hold on to.
I know you've shared so many amazing tips with us, especially from the perspective of a coach and service provider. But if you would indulge me for just a minute, as a final question, I'm curious how some of these practices translate to businesses that sell physical products, or businesses, like you mentioned at the beginning that are brick and mortar.
And the reason I ask is because I see, especially among retail businesses, like brick and mortar businesses, I find that the only time they really collect client results or testimonials is when they say, Hey, can you leave us like a positive review on Yelp or like, leave us a Google review, or that's pretty much it, and it kind of stops there. And I imagine it's similar for E commerce businesses who are selling a physical product where you may not get that relational building, that you get an A capacity or a container as a coach, right? Where you're frequently interacting with the same person over and over again. So just curious, have you observed anything in those two sectors that you want to share with our listeners?
Yeah, I do actually have first hand knowledge because my husband runs an E commerce physical product business, is a custom knife maker. After he retired from the police department, he had been building his business already. And now obviously, he's all in on on the knife making business. And this does translate 100%. And maybe not necessarily, when it comes to setting Bullseye goals, that would be more internally within the business. Literally, he has barely tapped into email marketing, hence, where I'm stepping in to support him a little bit with a little time I have, because I've been so much like, Let's get your you know, let's get your people off Instagram into your email marketing, because he does run an extremely, you know, successful product based business using Instagram.
But this is a great example. Because what will happen is people will tag him using his product, or will send him an unsolicited review, I cannot tell you how many amazing people will just send him an audio, or they will send him a video and share it or email it to him like out using the product. Or they'll do live reviews unsolicited because they love the product so much. And so I think this translate to brick and mortars just as easily. And so it's being mindful that that's your opportunity, right? Those are the results you've curated. And so we want to collect that in some capacity. So it could be still a screenshot, it could be asking for that video to be emailed directly if they have access to it. And of course, I want to say the caveat to all these things, which I didn't say is make sure you have client permission through the contract or whatever, I keep pretty much everything, unless it's a podcast, like anonymous or whatever. And I just honor my clients in that way. So just make sure you know, you're doing your due diligence around that too, because I do think that's an important piece.
And so a lot of these things are unsolicited, you're giving a really great product creating the space. And so what happens is when we see those screenshots, and when we see that happening as a customer, then it opens the doors for us to again, like begets like, so then we're like, Oh, I love her coaching thing or this podcast episode. And I remember somebody sent her this message, right. And so that just opens the doors for more conversation. And then I would say it's critical that you keep building that relationship, like letting them know you're grateful sending them a personal message that begets the relationship and opens the doors to just communication, or more of the same.
And so I encourage my people to wherever they're comfortable, like repurpose that on websites, or in stories, you'll see on my stories that I'm constantly updating, the client wins highlights, I share them in my stories, and then I save them to my highlights. So people can come back and check that out. And so as soon as somebody's you know, giving me something, I'm repurposing it because I also want to walk the walk around what I'm teaching.
That's so helpful. And I love that your husband runs like a completely different business model than us you kind of get the best of both worlds and seeing how different people engage with products or services. So that was really, really cool. Thank you for sharing that with us. Amanda, you have been a wealth of knowledge for us today. I know many of our listeners would love to continue connecting with you. So where's the best place for them to go after this episode to do that?
Yeah, I would love to suggest two places. One is Instagram is my social media platform of choice. And I love to like talk behind the scenes there. So if this episode resonated, you can find me @awalkmyway. And if you're just interested in more of this, or just in general, if you're a coach practitioner, you identify with the word mentor service provider, you're curating results. I do have a free masterclass that really teaches coaches how to stand out without spending money on marketing and that's a great place to learn more and they can go to amanda-walker.com/masterclass to check that out.
Amazing. We'll drop all those links in the show notes. So make sure you check that out if you want to just click straight over, Amanda, thank you again for joining us today.
Yeah, it was so fun. Thank you for having me.
Hey, Ellen here. Thank you again for tuning into cubicle to CEO. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode link to a friend, leave a positive review on Apple podcast or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big
