You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 203. How do you maximize revenue and list growth from an unpaid speaking engagement? When copywriter and brand strategist is Zafira Rajan was asked to speak at Amy Porterfield virtual event, she leveraged the opportunity to beta test a freebie that led to an $11 tripwire product. Through a series of subsequent upsells iterations and strategic collaborations. This tripwire funnel resulted in more than $45,000.06 100 new customers added to her business far more than the upfront speaking fee she would have fetched for her first keynote, and today's case study is a fear of shares her secrets on how she tied her speaking topic directly to a carefully aligned tripwire offer. Achieving a remarkable 52% conversion rate from freebie opt in to immediate purchase. She will also reveal the conclusion she drew from selling this product through open closed cart launches versus evergreen. How to leverage a digital product like this to get in front of other people's audiences and her hot take on accepting exposure as payment. If you know you could be doing more with the visibility opportunities you get this candid conversation is your Crash Course.
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Hello, everyone. I'm so excited to welcome the Zafira to our show today. Hi, Zafira.
Hi, Ellen, thanks for having me.
It's such a pleasure and a joy to have you. And I gotta say it's kind of funny when I was preparing for your interview. I know that you referenced the Genesis really of how you were able to leverage this digital product came from a speaking engagement with Amy Porterfield, which behind the scenes when I was preparing for Amy's interview, you and Amy are probably the most prepared guests we've had in terms of nitty gritty numbers, like every stage, what are the conversion rates? What are the pageviews? What are the dollar amounts, and I was just so thrilled that you offered with such transparency, but it just made me laugh because you know, you guys share that tie. And then of course you have that tie with with the speaking engagement as you all will hear today.
Thanks so much. Well, the Virgo and overachiever in me is like giving me a high five right now. So thank you.
You get a 10 five so great. Before we get into your juicy case study, which as I've already alluded is going to be amazing in terms of the details. I of course want to know what is your cubicle to CEO story. How did you make that leap from employee to entrepreneur?
Yeah, so I originally started out In higher education and marketing at the very same university, I went to actually the University of British Columbia, and a year and I realized really quickly, a nine to five is not for me, I also come from a family of entrepreneurs, my family was in the food industry. And I never really saw them doing the exact same thing every day. So every time three o'clock would hit, I'm like, I'm done. I'm ready to go home and do other things and be more productive with my time. But the prepared person in me also wanted to make sure that leap was strategic and supportive.
So I cut down my time at work to 60%. I turned it into a one year contract for three days a week, and I started building up my business on the side for two days a week. And slowly started taking on clients. I had the elusive title of communications specialist, which was social media manager writing blogs, writing, web, copy, whatever I could get my hands on just to go full into the industry of marketing and trying to make a name for myself. And lo and behold, one site year was over, I was ready. I had consistent clients, it was doing retainers. But then very quickly realized I had locked myself in again to another nine to five by then just committing to several clients. So I actually took a leap of faith, I went on a writing retreat in Italy, with Laura Belgray, and it was like, You know what, let me just write for myself for once and see what that voice is. I've been getting buried under many, many voices over the years, which is so easy to happen as a copywriter. And when I emerged, I emerged with the new clients who were in the online industry were course creators were coaches and really strong personal brands, very personality driven. And I realized that's really where my sweet spot was. And I also found my own voice.
I started my own email list. Like I've been doing all the things without putting my own voice first. And that was a really turning point for me. That was in 2017-2018, I think. And then I ended up getting mentored by other copywriters along the way, who took me under their wings, it was really like the boom of the course creation industry at the time. And I got to learn from the best I got to subcontract from the best. And over time, just started calling myself a copywriter and niched down into coaches and course creators. And over time, the last two years, I had a baby, I took a lot of time off, I was able to come back to this industry with fresh eyes, and realize a lot of what we've been missing, or a lot of what we've been doing just because everyone else says we're supposed to do.
And now not only do I still work with that same audience, but I'm also hoping to show people how to fall in love with the practice of writing, and taking a sensory approach to our writing and taking our time with it. And so that's why my business has now expanded to not just one on one offers, but a brand messaging program, a sensory writing membership, digital products, like we're gonna dive into today. And across the board, I am just, I could never ever go back to a cubicle. I still remember that coworker who used to peer into mine and see what I was doing. And you know, now the equivalent of that is my two dogs. And I much prefer that.
They're they're much, much cozier companions. Right? Exactly. Well, I really appreciate your perspective on being able to recognize that sometimes we leave a nine to five or any sort of situation that doesn't fulfill us. And we can almost recreate the exact same trap for ourselves. I think people often miss that. They think, you know, entrepreneurship means ultimate freedom. But sometimes freedom can be detrimental if you don't really understand how to establish the right boundaries, or having that sense of clarity on where exactly you fit and what things you actually enjoy doing the most. So I appreciate that you share that side of your story, because I think it's all too common for many of us who leave the structure of one thing to build a prison for ourselves somewhere else. So yeah, very relatable.
Yeah, we're all trying to replicate safety nets each time, right. I mean, think even as entrepreneurs, we need that inherent sense of security and stability. But I think how we define that and how we play with that is something that is malleable. And we're constantly learning and growing and evolving from you know that you've had multiple businesses. So I realized the only constant is change at this point, and I'm okay with that.
That's very wise. That's very wise. And this case study today that you're bringing to the table, I think, is a great demonstration of how a single concept can also evolve in change, like you said, over different seasons, but still serve a really strong purpose in your business. So you're not always having to restart something from ground on zero. So just a little background for our listeners as Zafira was asked to speak at an event Amy Porterfield event and offer to deliver the keynote, which we'll briefly touch on, you know, the how that opportunity came about. But the bigger story here is what she did with that speaking opportunity in driving attendees to a free opt in that then led to a tripwire. Don't worry if that's the first time you've heard a term like that, we'll get into the definitions and everything. And ultimately, how that product continued to play a role in severe is business in different seasons for different reasons and lead to I think, a cumulative, what was it more than $45,000? In sales since its inception, is that correct?
That's correct.
Wow. And beyond the revenue amount, by the way, 600 customers, which, I mean, we all love growth in our audience, whether it's our email list subscribers, or social media followers, but customer growth is truly truly an impressive metric 600 new people in your ecosystem that have paid you some amount of money to invest in the value that you've created? I think that's really impressive. So let's kind of start at the beginning stages, this speaking engagement. How did it come about? Was this a keynote where you were asked to speak on a specific topic? Or was it your free rein to decide what to speak on? And then were you paid for the speaking engagement itself? Or was it more of a trade slash publicity exchange?
Great questions. So this was in 2020. And I believe because of the pandemic, Amy was taking her entrepreneur experience, which was usually her in person event online, and she was looking for a new copywriter is on the rise to come and speak and deliver a keynote, I believe specifically, she wanted it to be about sales pages. So she reached out to one of the copywriters that had spoken before Tarzan Kay, who was actually was one of my mentors, and I had been in some of her programs prior, and she'd asked me, she's like, is this something you would be interested in? And I was like, Yes. Am I ready? I don't know. I'll just say, Yes, I was in the middle of buying a house and moving in, and everything seemed to be happening all at once. But I just said yes.
And yeah, she wanted someone to come in and speak specifically about sales pages, which is one of the main things that I do. So I was really excited to do that. And she did give me two options. She had mentioned that she doesn't typically pay her speakers, I think, obviously, because the platform that you do get to be on is really an instant win for anybody if you haven't aligned audience. But she did give me the option of being paid if I wanted to, or multiple opportunities to show up in her community. Besides just the event, we talked about a podcast appearance, we talked about an affiliate promotion, which we can talk about in this interview as well, because it didn't involve this product. We talked about training inside her membership.
And I was also really clear about the opportunities that I knew would be aligned, but also would allow me to keep showing up for this audience, even past the event for those multiple touchpoints. And to me that was infinitely valuable. It still is till today. I think the podcast episode I'd recorded with her ended up being in the top 10 downloads of their podcast. And that year, until today, people are still finding it and listening to that interview. So it's it's wild, that probably even has more impact than the speaking event.
Absolutely, that's incredible. And actually, I'm going to use this opportunity as an early hot take moment from you. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Because there's There's long been a struggle in not just the speaking world. But since we're talking about a speaking engagement, if we focus on that area, between getting paid and exposure, right, there's always that meme that goes around like you can't pay your bills with exposure. So there's this idea of is exposure enough to replace true compensation for a service or a skill like speaking? Or like in your case? Is it actually smart to take that route instead of the upfront payment, because you see the long term gains that are likely to manifest as a result? So I'm kind of curious about your hot take, obviously, we know what you did in this situation. But today, when you're evaluating speaking opportunities, do you tend to go for the upfront compensation? Or are you still more likely to lean towards those additional collaboration, publicity opportunities? And if so, why do you choose what you do?
Honestly, I can't say that I'm the expert on knowing what to do here in any capacity because I find that it is so unique to each situation. I think for me, if the audience is really aligned with mine, then I'm happy to have just the opportunity to speak in that community and especially They know how invested their leader is in creating a safe space in creating an engaging space. And that the people I'm going to be speaking to are, you know, just like the Venn diagram of where we meet is just like that middle part is so juicy, right.
But I think if I was offered an opportunity that, you know, wasn't necessarily my ideal audience, but I can bring value to them. That's something I would probably opt for a paid option. But what I'm finding interesting as I'm receiving opportunities is sometimes it's a bit of both like, I will offer you payment and the exposure sometimes it's, you know, by agreeing to do this, we're putting you in front of these many 1000s of people. And other times people will straight up ask, what's your training rates. So I think there is no standard across the industry. And I'm finding that I have to navigate each opportunity uniquely. But ultimately, I think it just comes down to how aligned our audiences are. And the more aligned to the more likely I'm going to just say yes to participating and showing up and delivering value, because I know I will not only just gain, like subscribers and audience or whatever, but it'll be a really good experience for me too
100%. Yes, I think that's a great answer. And I find that my experience as a speaker who does a lot of engagements is similar, that each situation is unique. I think, if I were to add my two cents in here, for our listeners, I think, like the fear I mentioned, it really ultimately comes down to what is the goal beyond the moment that you're speaking. So in her case, being able to get in front of the right audience of people who could be potential clients and customers, that opportunity may outweigh any sort of upfront speaking for you could get, but if you're someone who operates in a different business model like I do, where you're not necessarily driving people to paid programs or services after the fact, then your IP or your time that you're sharing in that moment really is the product that you're offering. So in that case, it might make more sense to ask for compensation up front.
So I love the dialogue here, because I think it's so important that people understand it's not a one size fits all. So I do really appreciate your honest take on that. And I want to get into when you were actually delivering this keynote, virtual right, I'm assuming for this event in 2020, did you have the opportunity to share your freebie during the live presentation? So in a way, almost like pitching from stage? Or was it something that was a follow up resource, and to the registrants,
it was something I was able to do right at the end. And I knew everybody would want the slides because I you know, I was talking about sales pages, I was doing live makeovers of copy on the slides, like parts of your sales page without personality, how I would add personality and, and I knew when people were watching it, like everyone was like, oh, like my pen is like on fire. I'm just taking notes. And I had to just keep mentioning, like, I'll give you an opportunity to give you the slides at the end. And then I did so immediately everybody started opting into it. So yeah, I was able to do that from the stage, which I'm very grateful for.
Okay, so smart, I definitely want you all to pay attention if this is something you haven't done before, because there's a fear. And I think we're on the same page here. That is our number one opt in when we're for lack of a better word selling from stage, we're not really selling anything, per se, but you're selling an opportunity to connect further right. And we have found that offering the slide deck is one of the most appealing options because to your point, no matter how fast people are taking notes, they're bound to miss something. And it's just easier to be able to refer back to the original source. So I love that. Did you give them a QR code? Was it having them texted number? Did you just type a link out on the deck? Like what do you find is the best way to get people to easily opt in.
It was just a link on the deck and Amy's team had it as well. So they you know, there was a live chat on the side of it obviously, which was like going wild at the end and they just kept putting it in. And so it was really easy for everyone to access. And I made the URL super simple so they were able to get to it.
Amazing. Okay, so this brings us to our first data point that Zafira has offered us so graciously. So this first conversion point for the speaking freebie, actually real quick before I know I just used it but like before I just share the numbers. Was there any other component to the freebie besides a slide deck? I just want to make sure we're clear on that.
I believe it was just the slide deck was like almost 60 slides like it was very juicy.
Perfect. Okay, perfect. I just wanted to be sure they didn't miss anything. So the numbers for that. It was a 41% conversion rate, 1393 people visited the page. So almost 1400 page views. And then of those people 576 people opted in, in other words gave their email in order to receive the slides from severe. So that's a 41% conversion, which is great for any sort of, you know, freebie lead magnet opt in page. But here's where it really got juicy. It wasn't just in the moment that they opted in for this free resource it was directly being led to a trip wire at the moment or after the moment I should say of opt in. So real quick, severe. Can you define what a tripwire is? What your trip wire was, and why you chose this strategy?
Yes, so a tripwire is a paid opportunity that you serve up your audience immediately upon opting into a free offer. And usually, it's really low costs typically under $50. And is really aligned with what the freebie was. So in my case, it was an $11 product called the sales page personality kit. And for context, my talk was about how to add more personality to your sales page, right. So everybody already learned a lot in the slide deck in my presentation. And what I was giving them was actual swipes from these high converting sales pages where they could see everything that I did, and a whole workbook where I broke down each piece of those sales pages and exactly where it put in personality. And it was just $11. So it was a no brainer.
Yes. Okay, so something really smart. I want to pull up from what you just said, you made sure that the tripwire was directly related to not only the freebie but the actual speaking topic. And if you hear words if you're just said she said swipes, right? So really thinking about if you're going to implement a similar strategy, thinking about how do you accelerate the path to the result that they want, which in this case, was infusing personality into their sales page with templates and ready made assets that they can apply immediately, because as we all know, the easy part is learning. The difficult part is implementation.
So oftentimes, and I'm sure we've all felt this before, attending any sort of virtual summit or going to an in person conference, we're so hyped up learning and being inspired by all these amazing ideas, but then we go home and often either sit in overwhelm, or we do absolutely nothing with the ideas because we don't know where to start. Whereas if you give them the direct tools, and access to do something immediately with what they learned from the slides, and it's not just theory, but actual practice, their success rates are so much higher, and they're going to come back for more. So I love love, love this strategy. Why $11? By the way, was that just kind of a gut instinct? Or did you have some sort of tactic behind that?
So funnily enough, and I'll be brutally honest, I didn't have the idea for this tripwire, up until a week before the event. So they really put this together in a week, I was talking to my OBM. And she's the one who helped me think about it a little bit more critically. And she was like, are you really getting the most out of this event as possible? And we talked about it. I'm like, Yeah, I feel like they're going to be left wanting more, you know. So we went back and forth on a couple of pricing options. I think it was between $19 $9 and $11. And I think there's just so much around pricing psychology. And because I kind of fell in the middle. We're like, let's just try this out. In hindsight, I probably could have charged more. But I think it was just such a no brainer number at that point. I think people spend $11 every day on something. And when you deliver so much value, it's another easy. Yes. I wanted it to be an easy yes. Because like you said, getting paying customers, even at like add multiple touchpoints. If this was the easiest possible touch points. I wanted to make sure that they I could get them into my orbit.
Yes and really tripwires, I think are so powerful, because they're catching someone right in the moment of their highest intention to take any sort of action with you, right, they just took an action. So it's like the likelihood that they'll take that second action is much higher than if you waited at a later time to get them to essentially retake a first action. So I think that's so so smart. From what I understand this was also a beta test in a way, right, like this product didn't exist prior to, like you said a week before the event. So did you go in with the intention that if the product was successful, that you were going to keep it long term in your asset library? Or was it kind of just, Oh, I'll use this to kind of get some customers in from this particular event, but you weren't thinking necessarily long term with this product.
I had a feeling that people would really resonate with the approach and I wanted to make sure that If the way I was thinking about teaching it, the way I was delivering it was going to resonate, then that was a missed opportunity for me to not turn that into something that could be a bigger part of my product suite. So it was very much a beta test. And I was really mindful of everything I put in there to set people up for success. I was also really mindful by gathering feedback right after and like having that on an automated sequence. So there were so many things to set up in advance to make sure not only they were getting the most out of it, but I was also getting what I needed to see and ensure this test was viable essentially. Yeah, so yeah, I did know that I wanted to turn it into something I was just crossing my fingers that it would be really good and handle it like received really well.
Finally, right sales page copy that feels 100% You and still dings and lists stripe notifications without spending hours staring at a blinking cursor. Introducing the plug and play mini course that ends your dread and puts more you in your copy the sales page personality kit. Our guest this week and copywriter, Zafira Rajan will teach you exactly where to focus your energy on your sales page to amplify your personality conversions and storytelling, including the one section course creators always leave out but shouldn't. Her tips and training are easy, actionable and quick to implement. Plus, she's giving away swipes to her most high converting sales page for our visual learners. Within a weekend, your sales page will get the glow up and extra edge it's been looking for and you'll feel way less overwhelmed and way more excited going into your next launch. Head to zafirarajan.lpages.co/spk-ceo/ to get the sales page personality kits. Again, that's zafirarajan.lpages.co/spk-ceo/. We'll also drop a clickable link below in the show notes.
Well, you're speaking my love language, because I always am of the belief that you should get paid to create your product. So it's like the first time you create anything, get paid to do it to test your ideas so that you're not out all this time and money and resources on something you're not sure has, you know any appeal to your audience or in the marketplace. So I think it's so smart that you did this, I would be remiss not to ask you for some tips on the actual sales page of the tripwire since you are you know, a pro in conversion copywriting. When people opted in to your freebie and then redirect them to the tripwire landing page. Did you treat this as a long form sales page? Did you keep it like super short that they didn't even have to scroll beyond the fold to take the action? Like how did you structure this page? And were there any specific things you included? Or didn't include that you felt like contributed to its success?
Yes, this is such a good question. I had a feeling it asked us I pulled up the screen grab of the original say oh my god, yeah, I had. And I had the header being like, before you go do you want like nine more personality packed copy examples. You can swipe from my most high converting sales pages, plus this and that and then timer. And I positioned it as exactly what you just said about how we receive content after you know big events. And that headline was like sometimes you just need a little extra incentive to use all the valuable information you get during conferences, right. And I'm like, I know it's great having notes, blah, blah, blah. But if you want to actually get more support and put this into action, here's this special offer and it was only available for 20 minutes on like my timer, I put the value is 47. And with a strike through for like $11 for the next 20 minutes. I had some testimonials. I had like a overview of like, all the things that are in it like three this 62 pages of this, these many examples. Another testimonial, a little bio about me, finished. That's it.
Okay, so pretty. Pretty succinct, right? Just yeah. very succinct. Yeah, the testimonials. I'm curious because this was a new product that was really a beta. Were you pulling these testimonials from people you gave early access to or were these testimonials repurposed from, you know, past client work or or work that was directly related to I guess the examples of the sales pages that you were including in this in this kit?
Yes. That's a great question. So a lot of my previous clients are actually graduates of Amy's digital course Academy and they have scaled and like grown their businesses. And so they come to me at the point where they are already, you know, doing bigger launches, but they want to get to that next level, right? And together, we help them I help them get to that six figure mark or I help them just gives our copy a whole new vibe. Maybe it's been a few years. So I specifically pull testimonials framing it as like what the DCA community saying about our work together on their copy. Right. And a big part of also doing this Ellen I should also say before, kind of stepping onto the stage, I will say I don't think a lot of people knew who I was, you know, I was probably the only name at that event that was not immediately recognizable. And I did feel like I needed to kind of make my case a little bit like I am someone and I have been doing this work for a long time I have been getting people results. So I was able to pull some of who I knew were a new like star students and like are the ones who are going and crushing it, but also have chosen to work with me. So I kind of did some double duty there.
Nope, that that is actually I think so smart. Because if you're intentionally pulling testimonials from an audience, where theoretically if their past DCA students, they may already like you said have some name or facial recognition with the other attendees who are part of the same community. It just only builds that trust even deeper. And so that is so smart. Actually didn't really think about that. But yeah, next time for nugget for myself and for everybody listening, if you were speaking at a specific person's event that has a really strong community bond, thinking about how you can tailor the testimonials by featuring members of that very community to increase that recognition and trust. So great hidden tip. Love that. For the numbers on this piece, just so you're all aware, the conversion. So as a refresher, 576 people opted into the freebie of those 576 300 bought this $11 tripwire. So that's a 52% conversion. Incredible. That netted $6,396 in revenue. And at that point, so let's say you brought in essentially 300 new customers, right then in there live while you're speaking. What was your game plan for these people? Because I understand that the next step you took was some months down the line, I believe you up sold them again. Can you talk a little bit about what that upsell was? Why did you choose to wait for a second upsell? What was the time that you waited?
Yes. Okay, so real quick in case people are doing the math, and they're like 300 people times 11 does not equal 6386 in revenue. What I realized going through all my data for this, and also that I knew what's happening around the event, once people were getting wind that this offer was available, that specific link was being shared around in the community and other people were buying really up until a month later. So I had 263 additional people purchase that product who did an opt in to my initial freebie. So just to say that link travelled around a lot for a while. And then I was like I realized it was going on and had to shut it down. Yeah, I'm like no, and I have on my email list regardless. About what I ended up doing was the feedback from that was so good.
And you know, that was something I poured one week's worth of energy into. And the content was resonating. And this event was specifically for people who had graduated from Digital Course Academy, right, like that particular cohort. But people were talking about it in their membership, people were talking about it like across her community. And he was like, Okay, I think there's like a bigger opportunity here. And what would happen if I just gave this my All right, like this particular topic, I gave it my all. And I mean, my audience didn't have access to this product. So I also wanted it to be my first big launch for the product itself. So what I ended up doing is I sat down, I basically recorded the talk that I gave at a news event, but I tailored it a little bit more, I enhanced it a bit. I revamped that whole product itself to be even more detailed, you know, I'm sure I made mistakes along the way and I try to make it as polished or product as possible. I got permission for some of my clients to add even more swipes to the product. And so it felt a lot more robust.
By the time I had like really flesh it out now and was no longer a byproduct of a talk. It was a standalone digital product that could really live on its own. And so my intention then when I launched it to my audience, so I launched it at 297 to my audience, and for people who had previously bought it at $11. I gave them the opportunity to upgrade their kit for $47 and that was how I was able to upsell them and so 92 people out of the original All 300 people purchased it. And that was like an additional like $3,700 in revenue just from that existing audience that I already had. And I think it's just all these multiple touchpoints of saying yes to you end up being so powerful. And we can dive into that later. But I was really surprised of how eager people were to take me up on that.
And it probably also helped by at this point that I had a full sales page full of testimonials, because people were really excited to implement everything they learned this event was in December. So I had the benefit of people then going into the holidays and having downtime. So they were immediately applying everything I was teaching, they were having launches in January, they were able to see results, and they were able to make progress really quickly. And I don't think people always get that opportunity to see results that fast when you sell people products, right. But I was giving them really easy makeovers easy fixes as easy to see the results. So everything kind of was strategic, right. And that did all line up. And I couldn't have been more pleased with how that community continues to show up and support me even months past the time I spoke to them.
That is so impressive. But it speaks volumes, like you said to the quality of the product that you were bringing to them because they were able to see those immediate results. And you actually bring up a great point. I'm not sure anyone on our show has explicitly said this before. But as far as timing goes, releasing that initial beta product around, like you said, end of year, allowing people the space like whether we officially take time off for work or not around the holidays, most people still their momentum, kind of at least from a communication with external parties does slow down because there are people taking vacations. So you know, we don't feel as like tied to those quick responses. So I love that you gave people the space to play. And then they could come out strong with their beginning of year launches. So that's actually really intriguing. I think I might have to, I might have to marinate on that a little bit in thinking about how we position or where we're placing our products in terms of the timeline at the end of the year. So you mentioned 92 people or 90-some people who had originally bought the $11 kit upgraded for an additional $47 I think it's so smart that you gave them the opportunity to do so at still a very discounted rate. You said you sold it publicly to everybody else for $297. Some people listening might think, Wow, $11 to 297 is a huge leap, I'm assuming at that point when it was the $297 fully fleshed product. It was no longer in any capacity as a tripwire didn't exist as a tripwire anymore, right?
No, no, it was a standalone digital product available to everyone and I was doing an open closed cart period. And definitely there is a value jump. However, I think for that original audience, I take in the original investment they put into their program to end up in a place where they were listening to me deliver value, you know, so they had already invested in themselves at that point. And I was there to share and teach them. And you know, I think anything else that I was able to receive beyond that through the tripwires or the subsequent upsell was really just cherries on top. You know, I was so grateful for that opportunity and to have them really taken what I was saying to begin with. And I think the context was just different. You know, I mean, yeah, so and I also probably did charge too little for tripwire in the beginning, but like I said, it was a test, right. And I wanted to just see what the best possible outcomes could be. And I 100% out impostor syndrome, going into that event and doing all these things for the first time, and it was my first ever keynote, it was my first ever so many things. So I was green, you know, and that thankfully, having some time to sit with it and really understand my value and totally unexpected how good of a response I received, I was able to be like, okay, you know what, I think this is the appropriate amount for what I'm giving here.
That's such a great perspective. I really liked the way you framed that that the people who were listening to you at Amy's event, had already essentially pre qualified themselves in terms of their seriousness about doing the thing because they had invested significantly to even be in a place to watch you present. And then like you said, for everybody else who was just coming in green into that 297 offer. It's like this was almost like a moment of deciding, you know, are you serious about making your coffee personality filled for your sales pages? And like, do you want to actually do this? So I really, really respect that frame of mind that you have in approaching that you did just reference that at this moment. You were doing open closed cart. So essentially live launching this $297 product, based on what you shared with me pre interview. It's My understanding that you did also test it evergreen, is that correct?
Yeah, so I for that first year, I was doing open closed cart periods. And I should also mention for that initial launch, I also had Amy as my affiliate. So...
We gotta talk about that!
So I know we're gonna dive into that sidebar, important note there. But for the first year, I did do open close cart periods. And I also was only putting it on sale once, which is I don't do Black Friday offers, but I do Giving Tuesday offers. So I put it at a discount, and all the proceeds are going directly to whatever my charity of choice was that year. And people now know that that every time giving Tuesday rolls around, I will put that product on special offer or another one of my digital products now. And I will say then, when I went on maternity leave, and I was pregnant, I was like, Okay, I don't know if I have it in me to do live launches while I'm away.
But I did have a really high converting quiz funnel. So I did put it in there at the end of that funnel wherever it was relevant for that result. And now anyone can buy it whenever they want. And it's participated in a couple of, you know, all these digital course bundles. And I will say that the sales on evergreen probably aren't as profitable as they are in an open closed cart method. But I think everybody reaches that point where you're not sure what to gatekeep. And this seems to be one of those things that, you know, gain notoriety, or people were becoming aware of, and I just didn't want to like lock it up for months on end, you know, so now I think when I do have launches for it in the future, I'm just going to apply a different strategic lens to it. But it's, it's had an interesting journey. It's like a baby that's going up with me.
No, I think that's what I really was drawn to by your case study. It's not just how you leveraged moments in time when you had a lot of eyeballs on you, but also how you took something you created from that moment, and were able to repurpose it and give it new life again and again. And again. And I think that's the smartest way to do entrepreneurship. I'm kind of curious when you mentioned that evergreen wasn't as I don't know, if profitable, the profit margins are the same, I guess. But it was. Yeah. Yeah. Not as successful. Yeah, not not as much traction there. What was your primary way to sell it? When it was on evergreen? Were you running ads to it? Was it just based on a nurture sequence for new opt ins to your list? Or how how were you selling it on evergreen?
Yeah, so it was definitely just through a nurture sequence through my quiz funnel. And occasionally in my emails, I would reference it. And I definitely haven't had the resources, I think over the last years to pour money into ads or to drive, you know, additional traffic to it. But I'm curious what could happen if that was the case. And that's something I would love to experiment with in the future. But also say like, I'll be honest, Ellen, I haven't tried it that hard to have it work that hard for me. I had so many other priorities in business. And I feel like you got like such a big super boost and like a rocket launch in the beginning that I also needed to just like, Take a chill pill with this product for a while. But all to say that yeah, I think it kind of just like hangs out in my email sequences. And sometimes people bite, but I could definitely be smarter with how I'm selling it for sure.
I can 1,000% relate to my like, we have this one template, our perfect podcast pitch template that regularly gets like a couple sales a week will just get a notification. And I'm like, Oh, that's lovely. Because it's a great tool, like, people get awesome results with it. But there are so many things I actually just talked about this in my bonus. So I'm laughing because I'm like I'm in your boat. Like there's so many more optimized things per se, we could be doing to really push more traffic behind that product. But you know, you got to pick and choose your battles, you pick and choose your priority. So I totally am with you there. I want to go back real quick to the sidebar, the affiliate launch, I believe you've actually used this product in more than just one affiliate launch. Is that true? Or was it just the one with with Amy.
So Amy was an affiliate for my initial open closed cart launch. But this product has since then been a part of other digital product bundles, and those kinds of offers. So yes, it's it has appeared in multiple places. But going back to you know, the whole idea of were you paid for this engagement or not. One of the things that they had mentioned when we were talking about is like oh, like maybe you know, we could be an affiliate and I was like, I am going to remember that. Yes. And I'm going to park that away and also gave me a little bit of a deadline to you know, put pedal to the metal and make sure I could leverage the momentum I had after this event. So, not long after I actually had my podcast released on online marketing made easy with Amy, did we then do this affiliate launch a few weeks later? So timing really is everything here. I'm realizing as we're talking about this, yeah.
But yeah, Amy was able to send out a couple of emails for that launch for me too, which then helped bring gain additional customers as well. And I got those numbers too, if you need them. Last, let's hear him I'm okay. So the full launch collected $24,651. And Amy's team received 50% of that. So about $11,700, and the whole thing brought an ad for customers and off that, you know, they had brought in, I guess, a significant chunk as well. And yeah, it was really interesting to see how it played out, right. Because in that case, it was no longer she was promoting it just to like her DCA alumni. And a good chunk of them had attended the event, but a good chunk of them had no idea who I was. So it was the first time they were hearing about me. And it was just interesting to see how the difference also between selling something when people already invested in you. And then it was a good test for me to see as well. How are people going to engage with me when they hear about me cold? And that was like, you know, a solid test for the sales page as well. So, yeah, testing, testing, testing?
No, I think that's brilliant, the way that you look at that, like you said, testing a product in different contexts in different situations to see how it performs. So you know, where to tweak how you market it to cold versus warm audiences. I know you said that this hasn't necessarily been the tip top priority for you in terms of pushing a lot of traffic or sales behind it. But because the collaboration with Amy, the affiliate launch, having her affiliate for this product was a success. Would you consider or have you considered essentially replicating that and just finding other affiliate partners to similarly send out one to two emails about the product and then just split the sales 50-50?
Totally, I think that would be great. I think affiliates are something that I've definitely noticed has been on the rise. And this year, particularly especially since we've seen launch tactics change the same things not working the way they used to. But the one thing that does work is people trust the people that they follow, right, and like gaining that trust and believing in that trust is really important. So when they see people that you trust, recommending something that's already like a half, yes. So I'm really lucky to have had people in my community who just like even volunteer, to share my sales pages for promotions without even being an affiliate. And I do see the benefit from that.
So yeah, the caveat with all of this is, so I did that event, and one month later I was pregnant is what happened. So that lead up for that eight months that I had was probably like, the best time I had in my business, but then I had to shut it down for a year. Right. So this has been my year now to like, come back into it and like have that perspective and be like, these are all the things we could be doing to maximize everything. But you know, it was like a really concentrated period of like growth and potential and opportunity. You know, also it's like a woman of color in this industry. Like it came all at once. And I've been waiting for it for so long. All to say that, like, you know, I did walk away with a big to do list as soon as as about to pop my baby out. Now looking at everything through fresh eyes. Also, since the launch landscape has changed. I'm really excited to try some new things over the next year for sure.
Yeah. And I think that's the beauty of this case study that we've been talking about today is the endless opportunity for exploration and testing. And I think actually, that's a perfect way to wrap up our case study is, again, show showcasing how this product that started as a tripwire for a live speaking engagement, has now had multiple lives in different arenas. And I think the one piece we haven't touched on yet, but that you did reference was you've utilized or repurpose this product to offer as a contribution to digital bundles, which I've had the pleasure of being part of a couple and I've also hosted one in 2021. And it's honestly one of my very favorite ways to do collaborative partnerships and to model the affiliate launch more on a mass scale. So tell us about that. Are you kind of just keeping it in your arsenal for when people approach you to be part of a bundle? Or are you actively pitching yourself to be included in bundles? And is the play there more so to get the list growth from the purchases of the bundle? Or are you actively really helping to promote each bundle to bring in sales for the actual product?
Ooh, that's a really good question. So I think the bundles thing is like something that have had its own journey much like summits, you know, all of a sudden, they were everywhere, right? So I think I have to be really careful now about what bundles I contribute to because it can be really easy to say yes to any that come my way and have them not necessarily being aligned audience or, you know, maybe they're just like a bajillion people participating in that bundle that I don't know if someone will even end up reaping the benefits of what I have to offer, because it'll just be lost and evolves yet. So I'll say my intention now with contributing the product to bundles is I'm only going to do probably like two or three a year.
Also, because I noticed my audience was like, well, instead of me buying it, why don't I just wait around till the next time you have it in the bundle, or someone would have bought it and been like, oh, but you were in this bundle a month ago should and it'd be free for me, or shouldn't it be only $99, because that's how much it was for that bundle. So I'm going to be really selective, and also ensure that the number of people participating in that bundles, like ideally, under 20, I think in order for me to be able to maximize the impact from that. And it's something I'm still selling in my nurture email sequences at the back end of my quiz funnel, it is also on my website for purchase, like not like prominently there. But if someone is looking for it, they can find it. And it's still something I'm promoting for, like make Giving Tuesday offer every year as far as like to actually save on it and make sure it's a discount, right. And in terms of like the value of participating in a bundle, I think it's not only, you know, getting the opportunity to be showcased by whoever's organizing it, but I mean, every single person in that bundle is promoting it. So it's, you know, diffusing you out into the interwebs into so many different people.
And making sure that those are all aligned for me is really important as well, I could probably do a better job promoting bundles when I participate in them. And I think that's because I was saying yes to quite a few for a while. And then I was getting really saturated by that and overwhelmed. And I don't want my audience to be annoyed with me either. So now I've like really just taken a step back, and I'm gonna be really intentional about it. So that's just another thing we learned along the way, right? Like, we always all want to jump onto a new bandwagon, or we always want more visibility. But even as intentional as you are sometimes saying yes to everything is actually more harmful over time, you know, or can lead to more headaches. So I'm definitely going to be a little bit more careful. now.
That's wisdom that only hindsight can teach you.
Yeah, exactly.
And I have to say, I really do agree with you. I love bundles. But so few I think are done really well with the level of intentionality that you're kind of showing here. I really believe, I mean, at least for any bundles, we host obviously, we can't control as much when it's someone else's bundle. But we really feel like all of the products have to almost drive to a similar result. Like I don't necessarily have bundles where it's like a hodgepodge of every marketing or business tool under the sun, because it's like, so overwhelming for the consumer to even know where to start. Whereas it's like, Okay, we're gonna master this one thing, and every single product gets you closer to that one thing. Like, I feel like that makes way more sense. So I would tend to agree.
And I also think, something to consider for I mean, I'm just saying this to peer to peer, but also I think for our listeners who are thinking about who what kinds of digital products do I have in my toolkit that maybe I'm not actively promoting, but could be a great product to contribute to a bundle as a way to repurpose, thinking to that you can be a silent contributor in a bundle in some bundles, not all bundle hosts will allow this. But for example, this past year, we were part of two different bundles that we actually did not promote at all because we didn't have space for it in our content calendar. But it is a great list growth opportunity, because you are getting cross pollinated to so many different audiences. And so we were happy to just provide the product and you know, benefit from the list growth on the back end. So another option to consider for all of our listeners. And the fear. I'm just I'm so grateful for all of your insight and your transparency and sharing your numbers today. Your Giving Tuesday Tip by the way, is probably my favorite thing that I took away from this conversation and definitely something I want to bring to my team to see how we can honor that this year as well. To end our time, I would love for you to share where our listeners can continue to connect with you. Is there anything you're excited about that you want to share with them?
Oh, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. And I will say you know became a copywriter because I'm terrible at math, but I really loved getting into all the numbers today. And I would love to connect with your listeners. You can find me at Zafirarajan.com Or occasionally on Instagram @zafira.rajan. So don't be afraid to send me a DM if you have any questions or anything you want to share that resonated after the episode. It's been such a pleasure.
Oh good. And I guess I just have to ask One more tag on with threads coming out yesterday and taking over all of the feeds as a copywriter. How do you feel about that? It's a place for words right? So where can we find you?
Oh man... Okay, so with any new thing that comes out it is not my personality to dive in headfirst I like to sit back and wait and see is this something that's gonna stick around? Is it worth my energy is going to be a clubhouse situation. So I am watching threads, I'm seeing this happening. And if it takes off, I'll be really happy. But I do also have a sub stack because I write personal essays. So that's something that I focus on writing long form content, and that will save threads is here to stay.
Fair. That is more than a fair assessment. Make sure if you're listening, check out the show notes below. We'll include the furious substack her website, link all the things or Instagram. Thank you again for joining me today.
Thanks for having me.
Hey, Ellen here, thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoy today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode linked to a friend, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big!
