Alright guys, welcome to another episode of live with a cork in the road. And I'm Kelly. I'm your wine Explorer here in Atlanta, Georgia and I am chatting with people who are shaping the southeast wine industry.
Hello, Happy New Year. Thank you for pushing play on the cork in the road Podcast. I'm Kelly, your host based in Atlanta, Georgia. And this is the very first episode of 2024. It feels so good to be back on the air after the holiday festivities and opening some really great bottles of wine with friends and family. I hope you did the same. This conversation today is full of insights that hopefully will inspire your continued wine exploration as we go into a new year, but it also might spark your curiosity and learning more about what Australia has to offer. I spoke with Jane Lopes, an incredibly accomplished wine professional who not only worked as a Sommelier at Eleven Madison Park in New York City when they were named the number one restaurant on the San Pellegrino world's 50 Best list but then she also passed the master sommelier exam in 2018. And has most recently put her Literature degree from University of Chicago to use by authoring not one, but two books since 2019. She currently lives in Nashville, Tennessee and owns a wine import company with her husband Jonathan Ross. Their newest book, How to Drink Australian: An essential modern wine book offers insights on all aspects of Australian wine, including inside scoops, pressing concerns, and current events for each region. So we talk about why she feels so passionate right now about these wines. And she talks about what excites her about being in the wine industry right now and going into the next year. I have respected her work for so many years, so it was an honor to have her on the show. I hope that you enjoy this one as much as we did recording it. This episode is generously sponsored by Diane carpenter and Ross Knoll vineyard in Sonoma County who supports this show monthly so I can do a bunch of cool things like host live audience episodes and host meet and greets with winemakers when they come to visit Atlanta. This month out in Sonoma, the team at Ross Knoll is bottling the 2023 blanc de noir formerly the white Pinot Noir. This has a whole new label and represents a single vineyard expression of Pinot Noir without skin contact. Diane and I are already scheming about planning an event here in Atlanta in early March to share the latest wines in the Ross Knoll portfolio, including the new single vineyard Pinot Noir's, so you can follow @rossknollvineyard on Instagram to stay up to date on all things Ross Knoll. And you can also subscribe to my monthly newsletter on www.acorkintheroad.com for the first look at events and all my ticket drops. I have a lot of events already on the calendar for this spring. So I will be sharing all the details and links for those very soon. At the end of this month, though, I was invited to be on the panel for the annual Somm Smackdown blind tasting competition here in Atlanta at vino venue. So I'm going to do my best to use the skills that I work on every week to correctly identify these wines. But it's always such a good time, no matter what happens. This time my mom will be there in the audience. So that's an extra bonus. And I can't wait to celebrate the skills that we have here in Atlanta as part of the wine industry with my fellow wine professionals. I have a full schedule of podcast guests getting on the calendar right now for recording sessions as well. So get ready for continued conversations and stories to highlight the people behind the wine in our industry and hopefully we will inspire you to keep learning and exploring. Until episode 122, here's a big cheers and please take care
it is a privilege and an honor to have you Jane. Thanks for being on the show.
Oh, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
You're kicking off the 2024 podcast series here. You're the first of the new year.
Amazing. I'm honored.
This is a big deal. Especially now because you've been a little bit of a Carmen San Diego lately Haven't you?
Yeah, I've been on the road quite a bit. Quite a bit.
So good. So where did I catch you?
I am actually at home. I know it's a miracle I'm in Nashville Tennessee,
but you were just in the Uber from the airport. So you are in the middle of traveling?
Correct. Correct. I just got home from sort of a yeah like a 10 day trip 11 day trip something like that
As part of these travels you were just in Atlanta I know I missed you but what did you do while you're just here?
Did a few events did like a women buyers lunch. It was really fun. It was pretty it was pretty quick, two full days sort of thing.
The Women's buyers lunch looked really cool. What does it feel like to be on a press tour for not even not even your your first book Jane? This is your second book. I imagine writing a book might be an every Literature degree graduates vision board, though. Is that for you? Is that true for you?
Yeah you know, it's funny I kind of I Definitely didn't leave school thinking I was going to be an author, at least certainly not this kind of writing. But, you know, I did have sort of I had ideas. You know, I remember thinking about, like, you know, creating a wine magazine or something like that. So I definitely did think about getting back to writing and content curation. But it was really it was a literary agent who had gone to my same undergrad and he read an interview of me in our alumni magazine, and he just reached out and he said, You should write a book. And, you know, that was kind of just like the like, you know, a wake up call of like, Oh, I could write a book. And then I, you know, kind of had this seed of an idea that was clearly already in my head for vignette, and that that really materialized and then think once you've written one book, you're like, Well, I've done it once. I could do it again. Although this the first book in no way prepared me for the second book,
did you ever expect to be on these press tours like a like a concert Rockstar, like you have a tour, you have tour dates
YHou know, it's not maybe quite as glamorous as it sounds, it's, it's also not, at least sort of our our Australian tour felt like a genuine book tour, we went around to different booksellers, and we signed books, and we had, you know, in studio radio interviews and stuff like that. But the US feels kind of just like what we normally do with a book plugged in, you know, like, we're normally my husband and I are on the road so much for our imports company, you know, doing events showing the wines, and now we just start showing wines and a book. And then I get to do lovely podcast interviews for from wherever I am.
The benefit of a virtual world is that you can connect still with all these people who want to know, yes, about your wines, but also your literature projects. And you mentioned this particular Australian book to me your second book, I remember going to event of yours, you were showcasing wines at preens here in Atlanta. And you were like, yeah, actually, I have a book coming out. But I can't say too much. And so that's all we knew. But the timeline for a project like this, what's that like, from concept to now being on the book tour,
it's been my experience. And I don't, I'm sure it's not always like this. But it's been my experience with the two books I've written that once you get a contract, they want the manuscript pretty soon. So I recommend anyone who wants to get a book deal have like a good amount written before you before you pitch it. So we pitched this in January 2021. And because I'd already worked with the first publisher, we were talking to, that process was pretty quick for them to greenlight it. And then it published in August of 23. So two and a half years, part of that was we ended up switching publishers. So that, you know, that added a bit of time, although I think that would probably be a pretty reasonable timeline, regardless, you know, for a book of this magnitude, and so much research and stuff like that. So yeah, but there are definitely periods that were really crunched for kind of getting it all done.
But at least you weren't just having an empty pitch. That's your that's your advice to all those future writers out there. Is you have tp have a little bit in the back end, before you start throwing this idea out.
100%. And for my first book, I did have a lot, I probably had a good third of the book done, which I you know, I think is important, when you haven't written a book before, because they don't know if you can write a book, you know, they don't know if you are actually capable of generating the sheer sort of like massive content that you need. So I think that's always really helpful just to be like, Look, I can actually write a big thing.
Proof of concept, proof of skill. These are all important things
And not even not even skill, but like just proof of like kind of endurance almost.
Yep, that you are ready that you are qualified for the writing job. That's so cool. And that's true for a lot of things in life. You got to show that we're capable of to get those opportunities and you've done that twice, which is really cool. But you take us for this book, the second one on a journey around the country of Australia, the landscape of Australian wines. But why now what makes this the opportune time to release into the world and into the hands of readers? What makes the release of this book so timely for the market right now?
you know, on the back of the book, there's not like a whole summary it just says one line. It says there's never been a more exciting time to drink Australian wine and I genuinely leaves that I think it's sort of this, this perfect nexus of incredible history, amazing kind of old vineyards, Maine, Australia, so many of the oldest vineyards in the world, a lot of second, third, fourth, fifth generation wineries who have accrued so much, you know, generational knowledge and experience, but combined with a real spirit of innovation, and forward thinking and research, and I'm continually blown away by what is being produced out of Australia. So in a way, it's, you know, it's the perfect time, because it's such an exciting time to drink Australian wine and weights a hard time because things are changing so rapidly that it feels like, you know, want to do another edition tomorrow. But, you know, I just do think it's, it's about time that people kind of realized the quality of Australian wine and the, you know, the global scene really started consuming these wines more
It's very fascinating to me, I think even going to your event here in Atlanta, was extremely eye opening for me, and I've been in the industry for 10 years, and I never had tasted Australian wine like you showcased to us. So my eyes were lit up, my curiosity was spiked. So I'm excited that you've put that into a compilation format for this book. That's really exciting, Jane.
Yeah. And I mean, that was totally our experience when we moved to there. Because we, you know, yeah, we'd been in the industry for 10 years for me and longer for John, when we moved over, and we were working at top restaurants and studying for Master sommelier exams. And, and we felt like, if there were, we felt like we knew what was going on in Australia, because, you know, we were studious sommeliers. And we lived in New York where we felt like we had availability, you know, everything. And when we moved there, we just were absolutely blown away by the quality and diversity and just kind of sheer quantity of, of really amazing wines and, and amazing regions we'd never heard of, or never tasted a wine from and, and we've heard it from a lot of people who have been able to spend time there visit there that it really is nothing like what they expected.
An you're trying to capture that now in a book for a lot of people who haven't been able to go. So when you were thinking about the format for this because I'm now I'm contrasting your first book to the second book and the format's are very individual and unique to that concept. Like for the first one, I really enjoyed how you were telling stories of life and wine and buy bottles and thinking that way. So what led you to the formatting that you were going to be using to tell the stories of Australia,
you know, we knew we wanted to break it down regionally, because we really felt like that was a huge missing piece of the conversation for Australian wine is kind of the originality of it. Because, you know, we don't talk about French wine, really, we talk about Bordeaux and Loire Valley and burgundy and Rhone and you know, all the individual parts that have their individual personalities and grapes and, you know, issues and concerns and, but we tend to sort of group Australian wine together. And it's our ambitious goal that in 10 years, 50 years, however long it takes that someone could walk into a wine store. And not only say, you know, oh, I've been hearing good things about Australian Chardonnay or really like Australian Chardonnay, but say, Oh, do you have any Adelaide Hills Chardonnay? I really love that or I you know, do you have any Macedon Ranges? Chardonnay, that's my that's my favorite, you know, I think is wine professionals. And as Wine Enthusiast, you know, people get nitty gritty over the difference between this premier crew of Burgundy that's right next door to this other one and how they're different. And here we're talking about a giant country with incredibly different terroirs and climates and soil types that produce really distinct wine. So you know, that was number one where we knew we wanted to split it up into kind of regional sections. And then within that, you know, I think, you know, we each chapter is split up into a little bit of an introduction and then a section called evolution of wine, which is history, but kind of continuing up until today, really a narrative from sort of like first plantings to today, section called lay of the land, which are all the terroir elements, and then a section called hubbub, which is, to me kind of the most important section like you said, so many people haven't had a chance to visit Australia. So this is a way to give people proximity because I feel like you know, some Wind books you read and it feels more like a laundry list of like, this is the soil type. And this is the elevation and these are the grapes planted, and you kind of leave not feeling like you have a real distinct grasp on what's actually going on in that region, you know. And so, hubbub really gets kind of to the heart of that of, you know, what are people excited about? What are they nervous about? What are they working towards? What are the conversations in the region, so that people can really leave being like, okay, like, yes, I've been given all this great technical information. But now I feel like, I really have an idea what these regions are like, and, man, I really want to visit beach worth, and I've got to get like over to Tasmania. And, you know, I just, I hope kind of exciting people about Australia,
you're giving a personality to the region, you're giving us something they couldn't get from a book before, or maybe even find online, there's so many resources, and you're giving a personal attachment to the uniqueness of that region. That is the idea. And I'm not surprised at all, that you are very good at storytelling, especially when it comes to lines and who makes it and where it's from, and all of that, because you've had a lot of roles in the wine industry. Jane, you've been a beverage director, you've been a Sommelier at a Michelin star restaurant, you're now in import. So you've traveled through all facets of wine. So at this point, writing the book and all these accomplishments, what has motivated you to stay in the wine industry over all these years? And all those roles? What's what keeps you going?
You know, I mean, Australia really sort of definitely pivoted our careers considerably. You know, the fact that, you know, if you told me in 2016, that I would be importing Australian wine and have written a book on Australian wine, I would have said, I'd never, why would that ever happen. And so, you know, I think it's always finding those sort of like hooks that you can feel passionate about that you find, you know, that you're continuing to grow and learn in. And I think that's always been big for me, where I feel like, I want to move on to something new, when I feel like I'm not growing and learning, I can't imagine I'll stop growing and learning in this job. And, you know, it is really special to have our own company to and that's certainly motivating to get up every day and continue to work, you know, hard for ourselves and for the our producers, who we really, really believe in, and just the really the future of Australian wine in the United States is something we feel very strongly about. And I Yeah, that's really motivating to kind of continue to do you know, to do what we do.
Are you bringing any of those previous roles at other aspects of the industry? Are they coming into the world of import the really high recognition steaks that you received on the floor as a sum? And also just knowing the service side and working with customers all the time? tableside does that come into the import business?
Absolutely. both Jon and I kind of carry a sense of hospitality and everything that we do, whether it's our relations with our distributors, with our producers, or with retailers or restaurants, or with kind of the end consumer, you know, and, and we, you know, we always we joke that every, every wine that we sell, we sell it three times, because we need to sell the distributors on working with us. And then we go into market and we do staff trainings with them, and we help them sell the wines to restaurants and retailers. And then we go into restaurants and retailers and we do events with them to sell the wines to the end customer. There isn't a lot of built in demand for Australian wine yet.
Yet.
So what I'm telling myself, you know, people think Australian wine is kind of one thing, maybe maybe two things, and haven't really been exposed to kind of the the diversity of Australian wine. So you don't get a lot of people walking into restaurants and retailers saying, where's your Australian section? And unfortunately, if they do, they're probably looking for, you know, one or two things. So we really, we describe it as sort of like building ambassadors around the country, you know, people who are going to, you know, put these ones on there by the glass program or in pairings or are just going to recommend them when people walk into their shop or their restaurant, say, Oh, you'd like you know, I know you, you know, like white burgundy, but you've got to try the Chardonnay or you'd like coat around. You've got to try this Granada's from the Brazos Valley. We feel so confident in the wines and that they make people happy. And we've seen you know, at this point, we've done hundreds of dinners and tastings and you know, you see people who traditionally like European wine who really really love these wines and you see people who traditionally like I guess fruit forward styles of whatever it is American wine or non european wine, who really liked the wines as well. And we just know that they can make people happy. So we just, we're doing everything we can to kind of to, to get them in front of people.
And you're having those conversations and how fun that you get to have those conversations, or even more so that people get to have those conversations with you that elevates the whole dialogue about these wines.
Totally, I always say that my job would be the best job in the world if it weren't my own company, because that's just this stress of dealing with your own company is, is always hard. But no, I absolutely love really, most every aspect of my job, you know, I'm fine with sitting on my computer and creating tech sheets and fulfilling purchase orders and working on the website and organizing events or whatever, you know, whatever, whatever demands of the day are there are? No, I absolutely love it.
You're bringing so much experience from your past roles. But I'm also thinking about the way that you are able to interpret, and then translate the knowledge that you do have about Australian wines. That, to me sounds very familiar to what I know was a phase in your life where you were working full time, like you are now. But you were also pursuing your own personal education and going for really intense studies in certifications. So do you have any tips for people balancing education in wine and full time in wine, Jane? how did you get through that phase of your life?
You know I did have to have kind of particular circumstances like I didn't pass masters theory, while I was working at Eleven Madison Park, I made the decision that I wanted to just gave up all I could to that job, and also get sleep. And that was the right decision for me at the time, you know, John, the only exam we ever took together was 2015 Masters theory, and neither of us passed and I made the decision, I'm gonna take a year off. And he didn't, he said, um, you know, I'm sticking with it. And, you know, he would go to bed at three and get up at 8am to study and I just couldn't do that. So you know, and I just think you have to kind of be honest about the kind of the type of person you are and what, what you can and can't do. You know, when I moved to Australia, I had a lot to do in the beginning to get, you know, to get across my new job, and new restaurant, but you know, Australia is much more favorable in terms of work life balance, so I was able to, you know, kind of six months or so into my new job, start studying significantly for the exams, I think it's really hard if you don't enjoy the process. And so I think you just have to find ways to enjoy the process. You know, for me, that was creating my own study guides, I needed to feel like I was doing something active. If I was just like reading or just doing flashcards or something, I feel like I would have like fallen asleep or just like gone, you know, blind like just by like staring at my computer for so long, or books for so long. And so for me it was being very actively taking notes, creating my own maps, creating producer profiles and, and having kind of dynamics to what I was doing to so that if I just didn't feel like cracking a book, one day, I could do some flashcards or I could just scan maps, or I could draw a map, you know, so that there was always like a different angle, if I just couldn't get my mind into one particular thing. So I think that's important too, because it can feel really daunting. But I think if you're enjoying the process, and for me, it was always really exciting. And I would try to go out. And if I'm studying South Africa, let me go drink some South African wine and be turned on to what are the cool things going on there right now. And I think you do have to find your own process. But I think there has to be sustainability in it and there has to be enjoyment in it. Or you won't, I don't think you'll be able to keep it up. And if you do, I still don't know if you'll pass the test. Personally for me, I don't think that would get me to the place I need to be to pass.
No. And I see so many people actually that I'm so inspired by here in Atlanta that are working toward that same amazing title that you earned of Master Sommelier. And I have some friends that are going for it. And they're balancing roles of being a mother, a friend, a school volunteer, a full time and they're also studying for these exams. So what you just said about that enjoyment piece is going to help more people find that way. Are you seeing more people pursuing these exams and when you were doing it?
I don't know the exact numbers. I think there's still a lot of people who are pursuing them, I think There's a greater diversity of avenues that people are pursuing, you know, there's people doing set much more than when I was sort of coming up through the ranks like none of my none of my friends, no one I really knew was doing WSET. And now it seems much more common, which is great. It's great that people want to pursue education want to have this credential to prove that they're pursuing education. But I don't, you know, I don't think every path is right for for every person, and you kind of have to be suited for the test. Sometimes, like, I know, a lot of amazingly talented Sommeliers who didn't pass the MS. And it's really like, you know, it doesn't mean that they're any less of a talented Sommelier, it just means that they didn't have the right sort of disposition to pass this exam. And so, you know, I hope as an industry, we're more, I guess, accepting of alternate paths for education. But that we also don't, if people don't feel like they have a home with CMS, or with WSET that that means they don't pursue any education, you know, that's what we don't want either. So hopefully, we can find the right balance there,
Well you're helping to pave the way on that by publishing books like you are because people can pick those up at any point in their wine journey, and be inspired by what you've accomplished. So I feel like it's those types of alternative channels that will just bring more people interested into wine, I don't know, that's how I feel, I feel like more of those channels, the more people enjoying wine,
I hope so too. You know, it is a big topic of conversation or industry right now, where it feels like we're kind of not hooking a younger generation into drinking wine in the way that we would all want. And I think, the more great wine content that's out there, the more we can make learning about wine engaging and fun, the better. You know, I think wine is such a really a magical beverage. And if you read my first book, you'll definitely see how important wine is to me. But people maybe haven't gotten into wine for whatever reason, you know, I think there are probably lots of them, I think people are drinking less because of health. I think maybe wine seems intimidating, maybe it seems too expensive. I do think like the formats we serve wine in aren't always super welcoming, you know, if people just want, you know, half glass a couple times a week or something like that. So I think, you know, these are all things we should be discussing as a wine industry and thinking about new ways to bring people in without, you know, without leaving behind sort of like this, the seriousness and the, you know, the real magic that makes wine so special. Oh,
we are so lucky to have someone with that perspective, like yourself, now absolutely able to share directly with people enjoying wines, because your company brings you closer to that end consumption and those conversations. So I'm so excited to hear a little bit more about the portfolio that you have been working with that's part of this company. What's the elevator speech about legend imports, what types of wines are you working with and talking to people about Jane?
You know our whole thing is we want to showcase all that Australia is doing. We are not sort of trying to just show really more modern styles are very traditional. We want everything we want to show case, the great diversity of regions and styles and grapes, I think kind of our two, our two requirements. We'd like to work with people who you know, care about the Earth and care about each other and care about the person drinking their wine at the end of the day. And that doesn't look the same for every producer. But that's definitely something that is a common thread for our wineries. And the other thing is we want it to be a unique expression of Australia. We don't want to bring a wine halfway around the world that looks exactly like something else. So those are kind of the two requirements. But beyond that, you know, we have sort of very traditional looking Bourassa, Shiraz and then we have you know, a handful of pet gnats and we have some skin contact wine that's aged in February so like Georgian and flora that are buried in the ground, and kind of everything in between the app as I said before, there's just a great diversity of really excellent ones being made. You know those styles and then just you know, everything from like, Italian varieties are incredibly successful. Really amazing or blank or nosh Chardonnay and Pinot Noir are great and you know A good dozen plus regions across the country, some really great Riesling that doesn't look exactly like kind of traditional Australian Riesling. There's just yeah, a real diversity. And, you know, we always say we want to sell wine and a steakhouse in Montana and the natural wine bar in Brooklyn and you know, everywhere in between and, and Australia is definitely creating the wines to be able to do that.
And then you and your husband get to be the ones that are determining what's going to be showcased from your own book. I mean, that's just so cool. You must have a mutual appreciation, respect, excitement for Australia. I'm, I'm assuming that's the case.
Oh, 100%. Yeah, I mean, the hardest thing about selecting producers and wines for the portfolio is that there are just so many great things. And, you know, I always say if we had the distribution network, if we had the demand, if people were, you know, knocking down people's doors for Australian wine, we could double the size of our portfolio tomorrow exclusively with producers that we just thought were epic. Like, there are so many producers that were like, Oh, we love these wines. But like, we're trying to be measured, and not just like, bring everybody in, because we want to do right by all of our producers. And you know, it just takes some time to build up categories that people don't know about. So, but we're, yeah, we're fighting the good fight,
You have a long list of people you can't wait to work with. That's exciting for me to hear. I'm like, oh, what's gonna be next from you? How are you dividing the business between the two of you? Do you have distinct roles? Because I'm wondering who does what, at this point?
Yeah so John does a few consulting gigs outside of the business, which provide most of our income. We're not trying to take money out of legend, right now, you know, we really, we want to pay off our loans, we want to grow, you know, freely, we want to always be able to say yes, when distributors or retailers restaurants ask us to come into market. So he, he's only working about, I'd say like half time for legend, but he so he does all of our bookkeeping, which is, you know, at the money guy, and he's does some of the travel for sure, and events and education when he can, and then I do a lot of the travel, you know, market work, training, events, education, and then you know, kind of everything else, like distributor management, acquiring new opportunities, in terms of with retailers with wine clubs, that sort of thing. You know, tech sheets, updating the website, you know, a lot of the producer communication as well, whatever sort of the day demands, I am very organized in certain respects, like I have like a to do list app, and I'm always, you know, I am on top of that, but in terms of like how much of my day week or month is allocated towards different jobs, it's really just sort of what the immediate demands are, you know, it's, it's, it's tough, because you know, much of it as it feels like, someday we'd love to hire someone, it also feels hard to expect someone to be able to go into market and tell the stories in the same way that we can, you know, and so I don't, I don't know what kind of the future looks like in that respect. But I figure if I could do this job and write a book at the same time, I can probably do this job as we grow and get bigger. So no, no plans to add any anybody to the team, I think we would like to try to find some tasks, we can kind of outsource, like, getting someone to do the bookkeeping for John and love to hire someone to do our social media once, like we have that money. So all of those sorts of things, you know, I think we'll kind of find the tasks that we can find good partners for and then, you know, see how much we can handle ourselves. Like that you're
So you're a business owner, okay. That's what you're doing, you're running a business. But that also gives you the business owner, the person who communicates with the producers themselves, a lot of them you have longer term relationships with now and that you've known and you visited their places. You're the one who shows up, for example, at an event at parades here in Atlanta, and people get to hear directly from you. But then also the two way communication of having that role is that you get to see people enjoy the wines. So what have been some of your favorite reactions that you've heard from people that are trying your wines in front of you?
Oh yeah I mean, people are generally pretty blown away. And it's interesting because I remember I don't know this. This is probably last year we were having lunch with a French wine importer, and he was saying how much he hates doing retail tasting. because everybody is like, Oh, this wine so sour or this wines, so dry or whatever it is that like he said, in general, he felt like people were critical of the wines, which like, is just not at all our experience, you know, we really, people tend to love the wines. You know, people are really surprised that they're Australian, because they have this idea in their head of what Australian wine is. And it's probably either, you know, yellowtail, or, you know, big alcoholic brasa Chavez, and to see all these different styles and really elegant, balanced food friendly wines. Yeah, people are very surprised, but but pretty, pretty delighted too.
So fun for you to see that directly from people. And I'm sure you run back and tell the producers exactly what's happening there, too. So it's a full circle of this communication loop that you also get to enjoy as those wines are meeting new people just like they're meeting you. And I think about that of how closely you are working with small producers you're intentionally featuring and supporting small production in Australia. So thinking about that, what are some of the biggest challenges or issues or barriers that are impacting the types of producers that you work with right now?
Australia has had a rough few years, you know, certainly starting, even before the pandemic with a really bad bushfire season, I can almost guarantee you will never taste a smoke tainted wine from Australia, because they're very, very fastidious about not using smokes tainted grape, everyone sends their grapes off to university to be tested for any sort of smoke taint. And if there's any perceptible smoke taint, they will not use them. And that is a great thing for wine quality. But obviously, it's a really hard thing for when you just like don't have a crop to make into wine one year, so that, you know, was a hard hit. And then you had the pandemic, which of course, was was very, very difficult in the pandemic hit Australia, right in the middle of harvest. So it was really hard to get pickers to get labor. And then it was just a whole new ballgame in terms of selling the wines later in 2020. China put really, I think, you could fairly say punitive tariffs on Australia, like ranging from 150 to like 200 and some odd percent. So China went from being by far the largest export market for Australian wine to like, less than 1% of exports. And, you know, that hit producers variably, some producers had a robust Chinese export market, some, some didn't. But it definitely has led to sort of a glut, you know, of supply, and a lot of farmers getting very low prices for their grapes. And you know, and now, even worse than the US inflation is really high in Australia. So, you know, discretionary spending is just down people going out to restaurants is down. So, you know, kind of like the year a lot of Suppliers and distributors have had this year in the US, most people are down in Australia in terms of overall sales. So, you know, it's all these sort of real world market sort of things that we don't always think about, you know, I think in the wine world, we often talk about the grapes and the yields and sort of the you know, the magic I was talking about earlier, but you know, there are so many of these real world issues that are affecting people, but Australians are really generally pretty positive in general, generally pretty resilient, and generally pretty kind of, I guess, like task oriented in terms of problem solving. It's very much like, Okay, well, what, what, what are we going to do? What can we do? And so, you know, I think everyone's going to make it out of this period. The good news is, I think Australia isn't experiencing so much of like, existential like, Are people not going to be drinking wine and 50 years like it's, it's much more of a wine drinking culture over there. So I don't think I don't think you're losing that. I hope not knock on wood. But yeah, it just has been a hard time that people have to figure out, you know, how to adjust their production levels and staffing and, you know, sales teams and all that sort of stuff in light of, you know, just generally sales being down for the last few years.
And those are challenges that I feel other types of winegrowing regions are facing in unique ways as well. So these are challenges that are not new to the wine world in that sense, but it's new in this day and age and how that all plays out with production levels and all of that and you're at the forefront of now having the dialogue with your producers and then still finding a way for them to show up on the shelves of some of my favorite shops in Atlanta. So you're doing something right Jane, it's still getting wind to the people, you're still doing it.
It's it is happening, it's, um, you know, I think just have to, you know, keep your head down and keep working, keep doing the work, you know, we really believe so much in these wines. And I think as you know, a lot of European wine regions are suffering from different problems like low yields and rising prices and that sort of things, which certainly Australia's, you know, suffering from rising prices to, but there's a generally more availability of the wines. And I think the quality for the price is really incredible, like we've done like Australia verse burgundy dinners, and if you, you know, if you get a 3040 wholesale bottle of Australian Chardonnay or Pinot Noir, you're talking about a great bottle, like a pretty top notch bottle of wine. If you get a 30 $40 wholesale bottle of Burgundy, you're talking kind of pretty average, if not sort of like bottom of the tier. And Australia just look great. And so you know, it's it's our hope that people just start discovering these wines, and that they really offer incredible value, great availability, in the face of Burgundy, Bordeaux, Napa, you know, the Rhone becoming harder to find a more expensive
And I know that you mentioned the regionality, which I really enjoy as something that you would mark as a success point, like something moving in the right direction, something that is measurable and objective, that you would be like, Oh, we're making an impact. People just talked about that Australian wine in a very regional way, like they do about other French wine regions, and that kind of thing. So what are some of the other things you've been thinking about for yourself now, business owner having these wines out there? What are other markers of success that you would say, okay, in a couple years, like we're making the impact we set out to make what would that look like?
Yeah I mean, I think there's always like a number goal, you know, like, when, you know, things will be pretty smooth and comfortable when we hit kind of this number in sales. You know, we want to be in more states. And sometimes the hardest states are like the most saturated ones, you know, we still don't really have widespread distribution in California. We're looking at another distributor in New York, you know, that sort of thing. Definitely having kind of building those just distribution relationships. But yeah, just seeing Australian sections grow, you know, you walk into so many retail shops, or look at wine lists, and it's like one or two things, whereas people have more wine from like, there's Euro alone than all of Australia. And so, you know, I really, yeah, I do want to see just sort of those, those sections expand. And I think you do that by having originality where, you know, people don't feel like, oh, I have a couple of wines from all sauce. I can't have any wines from the lar. So, you know, I want people to say, Oh, I have some good Bourassa and Margaret River selections, but I'm really lacking in Victorian wine regions. And you know, that being more of a conversation of having a complete Australian Wine, wine list or wine section, you know, just there being some, I think more by the glass placements, for sure. You know, people feeling confident putting Australian Kal Australian Chardonnay, Australian Shiraz, you know, really any of these sorts of marquee grapes on by the glass, or even the grapes that are more unexpected. You know, we have so many great like, from the Chalmers family in particular, like Italian blends that are at great price points and really over deliver. And yeah, I think it's, you know, it's kind of it's all of those things, and it's really just seeing more, more real estate for Australia.
I want to see more Vermentino from Australia on the glass list. That's what I'm looking for. That's how I know go Jane, look at this, they have to keep an eye out. I'm going to text you now when I see this happening.
Please do oh my gosh, like every time we see our wines on a list, or on a shelf, It like makes us so happy. Like, it's funny when we're in Australia. And we see our producers on the shelves. We're still like, oh, look, it's pyrin or whatever. And we're like, I mean that we didn't sell that and it doesn't doesn't affect our bottom line. But we're still it's like so cool. We just love seeing the wines out in the world. And we know that if we can get them into people's hands that they're making people happy.
And you've lived there. You've worked there, you've studied there, you've done all these things that make you connected to be the one that encourages people to also explore and I can imagine that the more people will read this book, The more times they're having those opportunities to learn about it. They're gonna want to go to Australia. I have not been but you've, you've been there and you know what it's like. So why would it be important to put Australia visiting there for wine in particular, on a wine lovers bucket list? Like how, why should I move it up in my rankings here of my next trip?
I mean, it really is just a spectacular country. And every way you can imagine, there are so many incredibly diverse wine regions, you know, there's there's this trip that think he's Australian, but he's living in the UK. And who runs that the first thing, he brings a bunch of wine buyers from around the world to Australia. And the first place they go is actually a producer of ours, William Downey, and it's in this cool climate region. It's this wet cold region, you know, kind of has this tiny farmhouse, his wife is a cheese maker, you know, it's sort of, not what people think of for Australia, you know, even even when people kind of know better, they're thinking, like the kind of like, scorched earth red, you know, red sand, and like tank farms, and that sort of thing. And then, you know, Bill, just like with what people think of when they think of their favorite European producers, you know, so you know, you just have the great diversity of wine regions, amazing people, no one is has more Genuine Hospitality than Australians. They're so excited when people are there. Like, we'll reach out to any of our producers last minute and just say, hey, you know, a customer of ours at a retailer in Texas, has, you know, a customer of theirs, who's in Australia right now, can you do a tasting and tour with them tomorrow morning, everyone's like, of course, no problem. And then we always get a report back from from that person that's like, Oh, my God, they were amazing. They spent two hours with us, they showed us everything in wine, tourism, and wine. Hospitality is a really important thing for Australians. So there are a lot of great winery restaurants and tours and cellar doors. And, you know, people who are, you know, attached to art galleries, or, like amazing, sort of like artisanal goods shops, or museums, like there's, it's just a really kind of vast and gem filled, you know, place to to visit wineries. And then you have some of the greatest cities in the world in Melbourne, Sydney, and particular, Adelaide is amazing. Hobart in Tasmania is so cool, you have some of the most spectacular natural beauty in the world, in wine regions, but also just you know, in other places, and you know, it just really is a spectacular country to visit. It's obviously there's sort of this intimidation factor, because it's very far to get to. And it's expensive to get to when you feel like you want to have some serious time to devote to it. But it's definitely worth making the time. And it's definitely a big priority of ours to figure out ways to start getting Americans over there, especially people in the wine industry to experience it. Because we know that we can do all the things we're doing in the US, but nothing is going to make a difference like getting people over there.
Exactly. That's why I was asking Jane, because I'm excited about these wines. And I love learning about Australia. I love what I've seen, even recently in the Atlanta market, just the types of wines I've been able to try. And I get really excited about it. But I know for me, the puzzle pieces come together when I'm standing there with a producer when I'm smelling the place when I'm standing in front of the vineyard. And I haven't had that with Australia. So you saying that is really encouraging for me to say, Yeah, that's a place that should be on the bucket list of future exploration to have it all come together and understand those wines. Is that what happens to you when you travel to a wine growing region that you're curious about?
Oh, 100% I think when you're actually there with the farmers, with the winemakers really seeing kind of how they live and how they eat and why they do what they do. It really like, you know, cements everything into into place. So yeah, I mean, I think it's a hugely important aspect of learning about a wine region. You know, we really specifically thought about that and writing the book of like, how can we include as many elements that that make people feel like they have that proximity, and it's never going to be the exact same but we always do recommend people try to get there and we will be a resource for people when they do to make sure they have a great trip. But the books couldn't get us as close as we can get right now. So that's yes, it's true.
That's really that's pretty great. That's a pretty big deal for all of us to travel mentally, emotionally, even if not physically right now, but it'll help people studying but also people who just love the aspect of wine and travel. Having that portal to learn about those places will hopefully spark curiosity down the line. And you never know how many more people you're going to inspire to book a flight. So you never know!
Yeah, no, like, we can help. I've we've already seen like, I mean, I would have a few people reach out to us who had gotten the book. And you know, and we're heading over some people who have been taking the book around with them, which is a big commitment. Because it's a it's a big book. But now it's very, it's very cool to see. And hopefully, it's just kind of the beginning of, of people discovering Australia,
well, I can't wait to dive in and have those moments of clarity of trying wines while then having a little bit more background knowledge. If I can't physically go, I want to have the insight into the place. And especially because you talked about that the book lays out a little bit more in depth about the regions, people might be able to have those moments trying those wines. But you are not always in Australia, you're based in Nashville, I'm talking to you right now. Not that far away, I could have driven to you I mean, we're not that far. It's really not that far. But in Nashville, working in wine, both you and your husband, I hear some really good things are happening in Nashville, what's the wine scene around you guys?
it's great. There's a really amazing group of super talented wine professionals who are really committed to education and hospitality, just honestly, like some of the greatest people I've ever met very, very impressive human beings, who then are turning around and creating great wine programs that are both interesting, but also really hospitable, you know, having something for everyone. And it's a very cool scene. And you can kind of find a little bit of everything. It's a really fun restaurant bar scene in the wine programs just keeps getting better and better.
In the southeast in general, because I know you've been able to even recently go to other wine markets and talk to people who are really enjoying drinking and buying wine. Is there something different about the southeast that you've seen? Like how would you describe the wine buying that's happening here as a region compared to other places? What makes us different?
You know, I think in general, there's a real openness to trying new things. Whereas in so many places, in sort of the southeast, we go, Atlanta, North Carolina, South Carolina, Memphis, for sure. There's a real like, people just tasting wine, learning a bit about it saying, This is great. I'm gonna put on my list. Like, there's just a real, like, let's do this. I'm really open. I'm curious. And that's really special. You know, I think that ultimately, that's the way the best blind programs are created. I definitely in the beginning of my career felt like, oh, you know, everything good has been discovered. So I just need to see what other people have said is good and create wine programs based on that. And I just think that could not be further from the truth. I think there's so much amazing wine that we have no idea about all of us. And the people who are the most curious and open and, and who have built their palates up enough to really be able to taste great quality and wine, those are the people hands down, who are creating the greatest wine programs in this country.
And helping us all keep diving deeper, all of us are continuously learning, that's actually a pretty good thing for everybody in wine, I think we all have that opportunity to learn something new. That's a really special thing about the wine industry,
totally 100%. And it kind of feels a little bit intimidating at times. But it's also really exciting. And I think we all need to sort of drop the pretense that we know anything. And just, you know, be curious and ask questions and try new things. And I will be the first to admit, I feel like I don't know a lot about like, current events and what's going on in many parts of the wine world. You know, I've been so like entrenched in Australia that I couldn't tell you about the 2021 vintage and the Rhone or whatever, like I'm just kind of like I don't know, but like I hope someone's out there who's been studying that and can tell me and could recommend great things. And I you know, I want to learn and I'm, you know, I just think we kind of can can all just come to the table and say yeah, there's a ton to learn. We're all just out here trying to continuously grow and be open and be curious
making that the attitude going into this new year is a really good idea, Jane, I'm gonna take this I'm going to embody this constant curiosity, constant exploration. So taking a little bit wider lens outside of our little southeast region here. What excites you, we're going into 2024, what excites you about the future of the wine industry, let's go big abstract here, what makes you excited about being part of this industry in this new year?
I mean, I just think there's a lot of potential for us to do more, which I think is exciting. You know, I think there's potential to do more with media to kind of ask more hard questions to do more with alternative packaging, and, you know, and to continue to discover great wines and wine regions. And so that kind of never ending growth and discovery is what really, really excites me about our industry. And so hopefully, like, that's, you know, the attitude, we can all sort of work under going into the new year. And I don't think it's one thing in particular, but I just think, as much as sometimes it feels hard, for whatever reasons, you know, a variety of reasons in the wine industry, I think the quality of the product is actually very, very good, and getting better and better. You know, and there's just so much opportunity to do more cool stuff. And in our industry, so yeah, so um, you know, I'm definitely staying saying excited.
Good because I do hear what you mentioned about people saying, you know, fewer people are drinking wine or whatever. And I, I can honestly sit here and say that, that's not my experience, I see a lot of really interesting changes in who is drinking wine and how many people are drinking wine and what kind of wine it is, I get really pumped, because I actually see a lot more involved in some way in the wine industry than when I entered 10 years ago, I'm seeing more people interested in wine. That's my personal experience.
100% and I think that wine culture is also spreading out in our country. Like, it's not just like, focused in the big cities, you know. And, you know, I did an event in Texas that was, I don't know, maybe, like 45 minutes outside Austin. And it was like this really cute little wine shop and bookstore. And she had an amazing selection of both wine and books. There were bunnies there, there were two bunnies, and there was shocked bunnies. But then, you know, she completely sold out the event, the woman who owns the shop, she had these, like just very loyal customers. And if you were driving through this town, you would have never known like, it's famous for barbecue. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't have thought there's an amazing wine shop here. And there's people who are, you know, showing up to learn about wine everywhere. And so that's like, that is really encouraging and really awesome to see.
Oh now I want to go to that wine shop.
I think it's called the best little wine and bookshop in Texas. If you Google it, you'll you'll you'll find it. It's very cool.
Sounds correct, I like it. That's that's the fun part of being surprised by where I find some really great wine stories. I'm constantly inspired and surprised by just talking to people about their experiences with wine and you get to do that every day. It's so great. So when you get home from all these travels, what are you popping? Are you opening Australian wine at home? Or what's what's the drink tonight? Like you've been traveling? Or maybe there's no drink? I don't know. What do you what do you have and when you're cozy at home?
You know, a great diversity. I'm always really interested in trying new things. I'm sometimes hesitant about trying new things because I don't like Brettanomyces which is you know a little bit of a landmine and in shops that are more natural leaning, which I do enjoy those shops I consider myself someone who likes natural leaning wine but I also like clean wine for the most part. So you know, it's always kind of figuring out what's going to be up my alley, but I really you know, I always wanting to try new regions you know, new producers I've never had so I you know, I definitely don't sit down at the end of night and like drink wine like drink producers from our portfolio typically, you know, I think we were supposed to sell that wine not drink it. So that's one thing but also I've had all those ones multiple times and I want to you know, I want to try new things and I think you'll never want to get like a cellar palate where you kind of like only are familiar with with one style of wine. So I don't know my kind of go-tos, like my sort of original loves in the world of wine or any really any Italian wine like reds in particular, but I love Italian whites too. And German Riesling will probably be my kind of like go-tos. But anytime I see an Australian Grenache, I am picking that up and wanting to drink that. That is definitely you know, a large part of my heart is for Australian granache. But you know, in general just want to try new things and stay on my toes and have fun with it.
But it's so funny you brought up the grenache because I think the times that I've been super excited about oh that's new to me Australian wine has been when Australian wines pop up in my blind tasting flights. That's how I honestly have a very just completely objective breakdown of what is going on in this wine. And then I'm delighted when it's a wine or region I'm not super familiar with like that has been when I've discovered some really amazing Australian wines and Grenache being at the top of that list.
I love that totally, totally. It's it's a it's a one I like to sneak into blind tastings. For sure. I hope that the kind of fair game list for Australian wine continues to expand and expand for for these exams. Because yeah, there's there's a lot of typicity and a lot of different styles across the country
that will help professionals there'll be studying it because they're trying to accomplish these goals. But then it also just helps people have that idea of what makes Australian wine unique from these amazing regions that you break down in the book. Like it all makes sense to me. And I think we're heading in the right direction in a lot of ways. You're leading the charge Jane, Thank you so much.
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I just fighting the good fight.
So if other people want to learn about the wines in the portfolio, learn more about the book, follow your adventures, what's the best way to connect with you and learn more?
Yeah so our website is legendaustralia.com. The book's website is howtodrinkaustralian.com. We're on Instagram at @auswinelegends. I'm on Instagram at Jamie Maxine, Jamie with an EY we try to respond to every message we get. And we're you know, we're very open to kind of helping people on their trips to Australia or fine wine or whatever it is. So yes, feel free always to give us a shout. And you know, we'd love to be in touch.
Well now we know that is you behind the social media. But you're so good about connecting with people that do have interests. And thank you for spreading that love and sharing your time and being on the show today. Jane, it was great to have you.
Oh, thank you, Kelly. I really appreciate
Thanks for tuning in to the A Cork in the Road podcast. Coming to you live from Atlanta, Georgia, and interviewing people who are changing the wine world in the southeast and beyond. You can find more about a cork in the road at @acorkintheroad on Instagram and make sure to check us out on www.acorkintheroad.com. See you soon guys - cheers.