Okay, so we come to the fourth of four talks on the moha para nibbāna sutta. And again, just let me briefly recap where we've come so far we joined the Buddha in rāga. And as he was staying just outside of radical high in the ancient empire of magga. And not far from Bodhgaya, or south of Patna in modern Bihar, and we saw that he was confronted with the threat of war and asked for his advice on the threat of war that King ajaan has sought to wanted to invade the veggies. We've seen the Buddha's response to that and we've seen him then embark on his last journey heading north, up through Nalanda up through parts of Patna are partly put up through the land of the veggies, and through to the land of the mullahs. And they're in the land of the mothers in the little town called cookie Nara. We finally saw the Buddha reaching the destination of his parent nibbāna. And we left him I believe, last week with his final words, is that correct? We had the Buddhist final words last week. I think it was right. Okay, very good. So let me screenshare and we will pick up from there. Now this week, I'm hoping probably for lonely. But anyway, look, I'm hoping to have a little bit less of me talking this week, and a little bit more space for questions and conversation from You, Lord. So please do put any questions you have in there. If you have any doubts or problems or whatever, pop them in the chat. I will get to them. If I if it's at all possible, and don't And just remember, you might die. Today, right and you don't want to go to your deathbed, not having taken the opportunity to clarify your doubts. Okay, so just just just ask, doesn't matter how stupid they are, in fact, more stupid, the better stupid questions are much more fun. All right. Smart questions are also fun. But anyway. Okay, so let's now see if I can screenshare. So, after the would have spoke his last words, He then entered the first absorption, then the first jhana and after that he entered the second jhana then the the third fourth. Johanna's and the dimension of infinite space are called Sunshine Jana. The dimension of infinite consciousness when Jana and Jaya the dimension of nothingness can change and the dimension of neither perception nor non perception, Neva, Sanjana Sunya Yatta now, and then he entered the cessation of perception of feeling. Then Venerable Ananda said to Venerable karunā, honorable Aniruddha has the Buddha become fully extinguished, no Reverend and under he has entered the cessation of perception and feeling. So just a tiny little note here on the usage of the honorifics, notice how the text uses the word IR SMA, which I've translated is venerable. And then we have Bantay, which when it's evocative, I use honorable and then Reverend as an Avo. So, so the shows that Underwood, who is the Senior of the two, but only by a little bit, was And Ananda adopted the forms that the Buddha recommended only a few minutes previously. Then the Buddha emerged from the cessation of perception of feeling, and then entered the dimension of neither perception nor non perception emerging from that he successively entered into and emerged from the dimension of nothingness the dimension of infinite consciousness, the dimension of infinite space, the fourth absorption, third absorption, second absorption and first absorption, then emerging from that he successively entered into and emerged from in from the second absorption and the third absorption, and then he entered the fourth absorption emerging from that, the Buddha immediately became fully extinguished. So, the Buddha here is giving a rather spectacular display of his meditation capabilities and By reading, you know, reading the text as is, then the conversation between an Buddha and Ananda is because Anna rude he was a master of psychic powers, that he was capable of knowing what meditation the Buddha was entering into, whereas Ananda was less accomplished in that regard. And so he thought that when the Buddha attained the cessation of perception and feeling that there was such such a deep stillness in his body, like no, no movement, or breath or anything like that, and so, Ananda thought that he had died.
So, I'll just kind of come back to talk about this passage a little bit. Now, I'm sure most of you are familiar with these meditations before Johanna's, formless attainments and the cessation of perception of feeling. So these are the kind of main sort of core very profound attainments of Samadhi that would have realized and taught during his life and were part of this teaching and practice of these nine specified attainments here, the first forge hammers the most central so these always find a place in the Noble Eightfold Path in the five areas, five ballers, seven awakening factors threefold training, basically anywhere that the Buddha gave a overarching teaching on his practice, he always included the four Johanna's and so these are regarded as a state where the mind is free from hindrances. And so because the mind is free from hindrances, then you can see the nature of reality very clearly. And so this is how that those meditation states work. The formless attainments build on those form Johanna's. And the classical description of them says that they essentially have the same mental factors as the fourth jhana. So they have the same they have mindfulness, equanimity, and so on. But they also that they reflect but the state itself, the state of meditation becomes more and more refined with those factors through infinite space, infinite consciousness, the form jhānas. So what's usually known as the form jhānas, or Rupa jhānas, are known as four form jhānas. Because there is present in those some kind of echo of a material, presence or material phenomenon. Typically, this is the light which these days we will call the nimitta, in meditation. And so when we see a nimitta, in meditation, we see a light then in Pāli, this is called a Rupa. And it is has it's not, it's not material in the sense of existing in the material world, but it's material in the sense that it has, it's a person, it's an inner perception, a mental perception of material qualities. This is one of the fundamental distinctions between the idea of Rupa, as in Buddhism, and the idea of matter or form as considered in Western philosophy. So in Buddhism, I'm not sure exactly on this point, how the other Indian philosophies play out, it'd be interesting to see whether they're similar to Buddhism in this regard. But certainly in Buddhism, or form can be perceived Rupa Kenda can be perceived entirely in the mind. So if you imagine, say, a house, or a camel, in your mind, then this is Rupa and it belongs to the robot Kanda because it has material properties, such as color, or shape or position. So even though it doesn't actually correspond to anything physically, and so this is also called sukha, Māra, Rupa our subtle form. So in these form jhānas, there is this sukha Rupa or subtle form, which typically is the subjective experience of a light, which is a reflection or an echo of the meditation which brought you into that state. And so usually that's these days is called a nimitta. Although in the Sutras, the word nimitta doesn't actually mean that the word nimitta has a different sense in the sutras in the sutras with nimitta means an aspect of experience, which you pay attention to, in order to promote the growth of similar kinds of properties. For example, the summit, the summit in nimitta is the sign of tranquility. And what that means is that you pay attention to things in your mind that help your mind become more tranquil, or the pug Gohan nimitta. is a sign of exertion. So you pay attention to things that tend to uplift or make you make you stronger and make you more energetic. And then that gives rise to those properties. So this is what the word nimitta means in the sutras, it's quite a subtle kind of sense. And it doesn't really correspond exactly to like, to sort of a readily available concept in modern meditation studies. But that's generally speaking, but the word nimitta means in meditation contexts in the sutras. So I'm explaining all of this because it is a point of confusion. And it's important that when you hear different meditation teachers talking about these things, that you understand what it is that they're actually talking about, obviously, has changed meanings over time, that's not a problem. But just we want to understand what someone's actually referring to in that particular case. So to come back to our text, first form a jhānas. So these are profound states of stillness of mind. And their profundity is echoed in this context, as in so many other contexts, by showing how close it is to the Buddha's experience of peri nibbāna. Elsewhere, the four jhānas are called deva dhamma de parte de, sorry, they have a dhamma and nibbāna and nibbāna in this very life, for that same reason, because the mind is so pure and so clear that the experience is very close to that of nibbāna. And so the Buddha is demonstrating this here. And I think this demonstration has a few purposes. I think that it is showing the importance of these meditations in Buddhism. And I think it's also reinforcing for the wooden heart. The fact that his own mental faculties, undimmed even as he draws so close to his death, and so his body was falling apart, but his mastery of the mind was unaffected. The formless attainments are therefore called in Buddha in early Buddhism, these are called a asanas or dimensions when I Aetna is literally something that is stretched out, so a dimension or a field. And so these dimensions of infinite space and so on, are essentially what is left behind when that Rupa disappears. So if you have a perception of light in your meditation, which the sutta is called, oh, Bahasa or pasa, then that disappears. And the empty space where that light was, is the dimension of infinite space. Getting very bit weird here, right? These are getting very subtle states of meditation, and they're getting a bit weird. Then infinite consciousness is where even the perception of that infinite space disappears. And there's only the consciousness that was aware of infinite space. And this idea of infinite consciousness was a pre Buddhist concept, we find that mentioned explicitly, and the teachings of Yasmin valkia, in the Brihadaranyaka, in his his discourse with his wife, i tre and he refers to the brahman which is the cosmic Atman, as being the Ananda and when Jana and the infinite consciousness, so for him, this stage was, was the goal of the spiritual life, the the realization that he was practicing for. The Buddha, of course, rejected this idea, beyond infinite consciousness, then when that consciousness goes in, there's just nothingness. And there's just that perception of the infinite nothingness. And then when not even that perception is still there, but there's not also not quite not perception, right, then we call this neither perception nor non perception. And so, this is all getting very, very abstruse. And finally, then when that last bit of perception goes completely, that we call this a cessation of perception of feeling, and that experience of the cessation of perception of feeling is the most profound of all meditation states. And it is one that is essentially the experience of nibbāna in his life, but differentiate it from nibbāna, because it is still temporary, you will emerge from it. However, they do say that when emerging from it, if you are not under gacchāmi, arahant, by that point, you will become because of the power of insight from that meditation, so powerful is regarded within the tradition. So now all of these are very beautiful and very powerful states of meditation. And of course, many treaties and many discussions and so on, are concerned about this. Let me give you a couple of anecdotes from my experience as a monk about how these things are handled in the forest tradition. One lesson I heard about these states was when I was a burden Jana and and they were doing some they were doing some renovations on my heart. So there was a building crew a few months were there. And they were helping to build the walking path for my heart. And so I went down to just to see how they were going. And Adam Braun was there laying bricks. And all of the gentleman's were there, talking about formulas jhānas. And it was a very interesting just to see that little difference that add to
that, and Brian wasn't talking about formulas jhānas he was laying bricks. And all the young monks were sitting there talking about the form of attainment. So that was a interesting little lesson for me there. Another one I got from Mike, some of you may know John Donne, who's a one of the senior monks in that and Charles tradition. And I was at his monastery many years ago. And somebody asked him about the formless attainments and he just looked at the market to get into junior Mark, who asked this question, and he just said to him, you can't even get up a chariot. Why are you asking about formulas attainments? And so so you can see the kind of the that, like, it's fine to think about these things and study them and so on, right? But just just like, take it with a bit of humility, and you're taking these things too. It's okay, to have something that is there to evoke wonder, you know, maybe we, you know, unless we've experienced these things ourselves, we don't really no, and, but it's something there that makes you go makes you makes you contemplate the vastness of human consciousness and the depth of potential for human transformation. So don't be in a hurry to like wrap these things up, and say that you kind of understand them and you get them and all of these kinds of things. It's okay to have something there, which is okay, you can get some idea of it. But also, there's a vastness there, and sometimes, sometimes we have to grow into that vastness before we can truly appreciate it. Okay, let me share the screen again and continue on.
Now, when the Buddha became fully extinguished, then there was a great earthquake or inspiring and hair raising and thunder crack the sky. So this echoes our we've seen of earthquakes in the earlier part of the moha paññā magga sutta. I can't even recall if we discussed that bit. Anyway, let's move on. So now we have the series of verses, which were given in homage to the Buddhist para nibbāna. And each one of these spoken by a person of some significance. And in each case, the vs echoes something of the nature and the character of that person first comes up at our home as a home party. All creatures in this world must lay down this bag of bones. For even a teacher such as this unrivaled in the world, the realized one to 10 to power, the Buddha became fully extinguished. So just check the notes. So samādhi here is giving a a teaching of a a grandiosity and a magnificence. And He's emphasizing the the splendor of the Buddha heart within the scope of the world itself. And so making this powerful generalization that all creatures must lay down this bag of bones, there's the Messiah. And, of course, this verse having a particular potency, coming from Bahama himself, who, if any one is going to live forever, surely it's going to be Brahma. And so he's giving this this some perspective to confirm that even he is still subject to those laws of impermanence. Next one, we have Sackett the lord of Gods now of course, Sokka is the Lord of Gods is very Indra or the Buddhist evolution of Vedic Indra. And he, he's a lot of gods in a sense of sort of limited sense. He's in charge of the Realm of 33. And, of course, he's perhaps that of all of the various deities known in Buddhism, he is the one we get to know personally, the best. And here, Sarkar says, oh, conditions are impermanent, their nature is too Rise and Fall having a reason they cease their stealing is true bliss. So here sangha is repeating a verse found elsewhere. So unlike Brahma whose verses appear to be his own creation, as perhaps he is the creation God, so that may be maybe significant, I'm not sure. Anyway. So soccer is a bit more. A bit more how to put this. It's a bit of a versus a bit more kind of basic in the sense, he's just copying a verse that the Buddha already spoke, but also, it reflects his own nature as a stream mantra. So according to the tradition, he was a stream Ender at this point. And the insight of the stream entry is into impermanence and rise and fall. So this seems to be reflecting that to some degree. Next, we have Venerable norodha. Now norodha was along with a Nanda Māra, one of the Buddhist family members who went forth after the Cessna had already become established. And he was renowned for his meditative prowess. And we've already seen an example of that. So Anna, Ruth, said, there was no more breathing for the poised one of steady heart imperturbable committed to peace, the sage has done his time. He put up with painful feelings without flinching, the liberation of his heart was like the extinguishing of a lamp. And so we can see there with an erroneous verse that it focuses very strongly on the breath. And this, of course, suits his character as a master of ānāpānasati, and Master of mindfulness of breathing. And so he sees this in terms of the completion or the combination of this meditation practice. And even the liberate the state of liberation, that he speaks up at the end of the going out that the liberation of his heart was like the extinguishing of a lamp. And, of course, using this very common imagery within the Sutras of nibbāna, as being the extinguishing of a lamp with the extinguishing of a flame. But here, it's contextualized within that process of mindfulness of breathing and the cessation of the breathing, and so just as the Buddha, when he's passed away, will breathe no more. And the same way, his heart has gone out. Finally, and undisbursed, again, very personal, very distinctive, then there was terror than they had goosebumps when the Buddha endowed with all fine qualities, became fully extinguished. So very different from an rudas verse, Ananda, responding to the stress, which was experienced within the Buddhist community. And we see in the verse The next paragraph below, that same contrast that we've already seen, brought back again, those who are not free of desire, falling down like their feet were chopped off, rolling back and forth, lamenting too soon as the blessing of them become extinguished too soon, the Holy One has become fully extinguished, too soon the Eye of the World has vanished. But those who are free of desire and do it mindful and aware, thinking conditions are permanent, how could it possibly be otherwise? And so that you can see that, that under rouda, and Ananda a kind of sort of gently identifying or evoking each side of that dichotomy, if you like, and Ruda emphasizing the the peace and the stillness that comes with the passing away, whereas the Nanda, noticing and empathizing with the distressed experienced among the Buddhist community, and I think that this this dichotomy is so it's such an important part. And I've know I've mentioned this a number of times before, but it's such an important dimension in the whole of the evolution of Buddhism. Now the suitors have this way of talking, where often they will kind of present the kind of polls, right, the polls thing. So on the one hand, there's those who are like, Yes, I'm completely economists have no response at all. And on the other hand, there are those who like literally wailing around and falling on the ground. Now, probably most of us have been faced with the death of somebody we love. And probably most of us fell somewhere in between those two poles and maybe a bit more to one side or the other depending on what time it is. But it's also kind of unpredictable. And we often respond in irrational ways that you wouldn't expect grief will hit us when we last expected. And so these by holding I think these two poles and reflecting them in the verses See, this sutta is giving space for the growth of the Buddha's community, and in a broad way, and acknowledging that we all have a place there. And between these two poles we will all find ourselves and, and in that dynamic, this gives us something to, it gives us a set of values and something to aspire to. And that's precisely what and Rwanda moves on to talk about next. And I'll just coming back to sutta. And address the mendicants enough reverence, do not grieve or lament, did not the Buddha prepare us for this when he explained that we must be part and separated from all we hold dear and beloved, how could it possibly be so that was born created conditioned and liable to wear out should not wear out? The deities are complaining? But sir, what kind of deities are you thinking of? There are an under deities who both in the sky and on the earth who are percipient of the Earth, with hair disheveled and I arms raised they fall down like their feet with chopped off re rolling to fourth and lamenting, but those who are free of desire, mindful and aware think conditions are impermanent, how could it possibly be otherwise? Then unruly and and under spent the rest of the night talking about dharma. Now, that's interesting little insert there, isn't it? I wonder what they were talking about. And would have been nice if somebody had put the tape recorder on. Because I'm sure that would be would have been a fascinating conversation. However, was not to be. And I would say to an addict, go and under clinical scenario and a form the models about centers that will become fully extinguished, please come at your convenience. So you can see here that unrooting has taking that leadership position. And Nanda is the one who's going to be responsible for if you like, the management responsibilities in the sangha. And this was the case even earlier. And we find this distinction between an norodha and an under in other places as well. And under was much more reserved, much more on retreat and in meditation, and Amanda was helping to organize and bring the community together.
So Amanda, in the morning, entered quitting IRA with a companion now that time the molars are causing Ira we're sitting together at the meeting or still on the same business, little detail in the translation here. Most translations that I've seen have said that they're sitting engaged in some business or other, which is from the previous one. But here it says honte 10 ever Karenina so that they were engaged in that same business. In other words, since the previous night, they've been sitting in the hall still going on. And this I think, is a wonderful example for all of us the next time that we're sitting on a Zoom meeting, or some other kind of meeting that seems to go on forever, then we can identify with the molars, of course Naira who was sitting all night, in the same meeting, okay. And I went up to them and announced the receptors, the Buddha has become fully extinguished. Please come at your convenience. I think I mentioned this earlier, but just to repeat, the reason that they're referred to as well sectors is because the the poorer Rokita or the higher family priest of the clan would have been of the one sister over set lineage. And when there's a anointment, a coronation, or the ruler of the molars were there as in the Marlins case, so it's temporary ruler or over a lifetime King. Then they take on the lineage name of the poor Rohita who performed that ceremony. And this is sort of one of the ways that the Brahmins and the Cattier sort of develop this codependent relationship in Indian rulership. So this is why the mullahs are referred to as the WhatsApp paths. When they heard what Amanda had to say the mothers their Sons Daughters and Lauren wives became distraught, saddened and grief stricken son with hair disheveled an arms race falling down like their feet were chopped off, rolling back and forth lamented. Too soon the Blessed One has become fully extinguished to assume that the Holy One has become fully extinguished too soon if the world has vanished. Right. And the mother has ordered the men go and go my men, collected famous isn't Garland's and all the musical instruments in cozy Nara. And taking those fragrance and garland and all the musical instruments and 500 pairs of garments they went to the Malian soul grow that will provide dinner and approach the Buddha's corpse. They spend the day honoring, respecting revering and venerating the Buddha's corpse with dance and song and music and garlands and fragrances and making awnings and setting up pavilions. So, what a party, I mean, those guys are going all out. And they are not just, you know, not just putting up a bit of decoration, or not just something like that. But they are literally getting together all of the instruments in the whole of the city and coming together to have the most outrageous rave recorded in the entire history of the Party candidate. And good on them, I say, right, why not? Right, live it up, life is short. And you've got an excuse to both party and also make merit at the same time, what could possibly be better? So this is like, I think a really nice example, that in the Buddhist tradition, especially Theravāda, Buddha's tradition often has this kind of reputation as being a bit dour, a bit kind of, you know, looking down on on entertainments, all of these kinds of things. But of course, don't remember don't forget that these are for monastics, so we take renunciant vows, but for the people, there's always been a side of the religious practice, which is very celebratory. And you know, you go to Sri Lanka, and they will get out their drums. And they will, they will hit those drums very, very hard and make a very large noise and the fantastic drumming from Sri Lanka and Thailand, they have these amazing ceremonies and so on that they do. And so there's always this celebratory aspect to Buddhism and Buddhist practice, which is the celebrations of the mullahs is a good example of here.
Okay, so after they partied all night, then they thought it's too late to cremate the Buddhist corpse today. Let's Do It Tomorrow. very relatable to anybody who's partied a little bit too hard. It's too late to do the washing up today. We'll just do it tomorrow. Anyway, so they did the same thing the next day, the second fourth after the seventh day. Okay, finally, honoring revering and venerating the Buddhist copes with dance and song and music and fragrances, let's carry it to the south of the town and promote it there outside the town. Notice that the word to chromate is a jar pair sama from the same root jar as the word jhāna is. Now the same at that time, eight of the leading mothers having bathe their heads and dressed in unworn clothes said, We shall lift the Buddha's quartz and but they were unable to do so. The mothers center norodha What is the cause? What's the reason why these eight Malian chiefs were unable to lift the Buddha's corpse was because you have one plant with the deities of a different one, what's the deities plan you plan to carry the Buddhist course to the south of the town. The Deities plan to carry the Buddhist corpse to the north of the town then to enter the town by the northern gate carried through the center of the town leave by the Eastern Gate and cremated there at the Malian shrine named coronation. So I mean, clearly there's a clearly there's a like a symbolic significance to the directions here. And which I don't want to sort of try to unpack too much but it's worth bearing in mind that the directions always have have like a symbolic meaning or symbolic sense and they're often associated with different deities or with different rituals and so on. Anyway, so now at the same time that sorry, now that time hold of course in manera was covered knee deep with the flowers of the flame tree without gaps even on the filth and the rubbish heaps. Then the deities and the mothers because he narrow carry the Buddha's corpse to the north of the town. While then reading it then they entered by the northern gate carried it through the center of the town they find the Eastern Gate and deposited the corpse there at the Malian train named coronation. Then the mother said to a nirodha how do we proceed when it comes to the corpse and then gives the instructions on how to deal with the corpse as was given by the Buddha earlier. Wrap the corpse with woven with unborn cloth in with carded cotton. Then again with unworn cloth 500 Double layers place it in an iron case filled with oil and close it up with another case. Build a funeral pyre out of all kinds of fragrant substances and thanks Made corpse. So this course is very interesting from like an anthropological point of view, because it's giving very specific details as to how cremation of a very venerated person was done in those days. So that's what they did. And now that now this now we're coming to another, though we're coming to Okay, so, so like, think about this in terms of narrative and narrative, narrative structure. So we've we've had the Buddha being challenged in rāga. And that tension of the, like, the allegiance to the spiritual ideals of the dhamma versus the world, the exigencies of power and dominion has set into place the narrative unfolding of the sutta. And now that that, in a sense has been resolved, and so the Buddha's died. Since the funerals happen, all of those things have have happened more or less. And, and the plotline that like, if you like, the plot has almost been resolved, right. But we haven't actually lit the funeral pyre yet. Right. So the plot is just like one more point before it's finally done. But just before that point where it's going to be done, we're introducing a new plot, which is then going to open up a whole new mess of drama. Okay, and that new massive drama is then going to propel the story through the end of the moha pony bhāvanā sutta into the first council and then the second Council. And so that massive drama then consists of essentially of the question of what is the sangha going to do now that the Buddha is not there to tell us what to do. And so here we see this unfolding with Mahakasyapa. Oh, my goodness, so much drama. Okay. Then at that time, Mahākassapa was traveling on the road from poverty because he and I are together with a large sangha of about 500 Men, Dickens, he left the road and sat at the root of a tree. Now, of course, we've seen parva earlier in the story, and we know that it has a narrative or literary association with strict monks. This was where chunda fed the Buddha his last meal. So Mahākassapa Of course, being the most renowned as the most ascetic of the monks in the early sangha. unusual for him to be traveling with a big group of monks like that normally, he's alone. Anyway. Now that time is certainly a Jeeva that ascetic had picked up a flame tree flower because Naira and was traveling along the road to parva. So the mention of the Jeevika ascetic here is yet another instance of narrative echoing because the first person that the Buddha met after his enlightenment was NRG vipāka, ascetic, and so here, there's this sort of this, these these narratives have this narrative closure here. So the
Yeah, so when he when he brought that flower to Mahākassapa, I believe that this may be the origin of the flower sermon, which became famous in later Zen Buddhism. But again, be that as it may. Mahakasyapa asked him, Reverend, do you know, do you know much about our teacher? Yes, Reverend Yes, two days ago, the ascetic Gautam it became fully extinguished. From there, I picked up this flame tree flower, and some of the mendicants there who were not free from desire, and once again, the same dichotomy that we have seen before. That time a man came to Baghdad who had gone forth and old was sitting in that assembly. He said to those men, deacons, enough Reverend do not grieve or lament, were well read of this great ascetic and we are oppressed by him saying this is allowable for you, this is not allowable for you, well, now we should do what you want, and not do what we don't want. Sounds great. Excellent. So so bad, there certainly knows how to how to seize the moment and win himself some friends, then Mahakasyapa addressed the mendicants enough reverends do not grieve or lament did not the Buddha prepare us for this when he explained that we must be part of it, and separated from all we hold, dear and beloved, how could it possibly be so that what is born creative conditioning liable to wear out should not wear out even the Buddha's body now that time for the leading molars having bathed their heads and dressed in unworn clothes said we should like the Buddhist funeral pyre, but they were unable to do so. I asked her Nanda. So they asked on a router and the router explained that it would not light until Mahākassapa came at paid respects. So my customer came arranging his robe over one shoulder and raising his joint palms, he respectfully circled the Buddha three times keeping them on the right and bowed with his head at the Buddha's feet, and the 500 mendicants did likewise. So if you ever visit casino era, and you see the beautiful park there And the stupor which contains the lot of the large reclining Buddha image, which commemorates the Buddha's passing away, then this is the practice the normal practice there is that pilgrims will come and they will bow to the Buddha has her feet, echoing the practice of Mahakasyapa here Mahākassapa and the 500 mannequins bowed the Buddha's funeral pod burst into flames all by himself by itself. And when the Buddha's corpse was cremated, no ash or soot was found from outer or inner skin, flesh sinews or synovial fluid, only the relics remained. The dahati Sorry, here the cerebra Sorry, Ronnie is the relics. It's like when Ghee or oil, Blaze and burn, and neither Ash is not sort of found. And almost 500 pairs of garments, only two were not burned the innermost and the outermost. But when the Buddha's Quartz was consumed, the funeral fire was extinguished by a stream of water that appeared in the sky by water dripping from the south trees, and by the mother's fragrant water. And the mother has made a cage of spears for the Buddhist relics. Interesting, again, interesting anthropological idea there in the meeting hall and I surrounded it with a buttress of bows for seven days. They're honored, respected, revered, and venerated them with dance and song, and music and garlands and fragrances. All right, so that's concludes the account of the Buddhist funeral and the various celebrations that went on 14 days of celebrations. And after that, we've we've already we've heard that the relics remained. Now. And so I talked before about how the how this at this point, this juncture in the narratives, were kind of sparking off the next sort of round or the next sort of development in Buddhism, one of those we've already seen with Mahākassapa. And so bad that the, the emergence of the emergence of, if you like, the voices of lakhs ism in the sangha, those people who want to make an excuse, who want to say, look, let's get rid of what the Buddha taught. And now we can do what we want. And so this is one movement that became felt. Now, this obviously relates to the dynamics that we were introduced to right at the start of the keeping the Virgilian rules and principles, not getting rid of them. And then Buddha, then saying, sangha should also not get rid of its rules and principles. But then the Buddha, curiously then inviting an under disabled if you want to, you can get rid of the lesser minor rules. And then somebody says, Great, well, let's get rid of all of these rules, apparently, I mean, you could argue that super Honda was merely saying the same thing that the Buddha said. I mean, they both say we can get rid of the rules, then, of course, this all led up to the first council. So caspers response to this was to say, what we need to do is to have a meeting in the sangha, and to agree how we're going to organize ourselves going forward. And one of the decisions that they made at the same at that meeting was to say that they would not abolish those lesser minor rules, but that they would keep them all. And I believe that, why this is so like, why this narrative arc is presented in that way, is the difference is that these are not being rules that have been imposed by the Buddha. So notice that Subhadra says, you know, we can now we don't have to be going to be told what to do for the Buddha isn't going to be there telling us what to do anymore. So what Mahakasyapa is resolution created was a situation where yes, it's not that the Buddha is telling us what to do. It's that we have chosen to undertake these rules, and we henceforth will do them not because somebody else told us to, but because we decided that that's how we want to live. And so that is that very kind of skillful means that Mahākassapa used to establish the viññāna and establish the practice of the sangha going forward. Now, again, the two poles, right, so the poles of the those who are economists, and those who were distressed and that maps So loosely, not very well, but kind of loosely also on to the sangha and the lay community will also have been discussed as part of the whole Buddhist community in this whole and this thing now. And so just as Mahākassapa is emerging, like a resolution for maintaining the Sassenach, keeping the Sasana going for the monastics, then the next part of it is very important for how the Sassenach maintained itself among the lay community, and that is through the preservation and distribution of relics. Now, the idea of relics is not something which we really find in early Buddhism, actually is hardly ever if at all spoken about anywhere in Buddhism, and it's really just been introduced at this portion of them how apparently bhāvanā sutta a portion which largely was composed at a later date. So what we see here is that the lay community is wanting to maintain an identity of the Buddha through the physical presence of his relics. Let's see how that pans out. Okay. So, King ajaan, sutta, magga saññā, The Princess will be there, heard that the Buddha had become fully extinguished because injera. He sent an envoy to the mullahs because he Nara the Buddha was an aristocrat, and so am I, I to deserve a share of the Buddha's relics. I will the monument for them and conduct a memorial service. Now, I mean, I mean, it's a bit bold, right? I mean, ajaan is such has just been saying how he's going to invade all these people. And now he's saying, like, give me the relics. bit bold, also kind of an interesting detail. I mean, I'm not I'm not sure how far we should push these things in terms of looking for a historical narrative. But it's kind of interesting that he knew about it. I mean, it's a fair distance away, taking the Buddha months to sort of walk that way slowly. Now, if you had relay chariots or relay horses, you could make it from crossing Nara down to Roger Gerhardt and back again, maybe in a couple of weeks, something like that, and maybe maybe less. So it's possible but it does kind of suggest that ajaan has sought to had spies who were observing events, which you know, do seems fairly reasonable assumption to make anyway. So the literature is also heard the word of becoming fully extinguished because the Nara and they said the Buddha was an aristocratic and so we too deserve a share of the Buddha's relics, we will build a monument for them and
conduct of memorial service again, just notice how the party tax a very usually are almost always I should say extremely precise in a lot of really small details. Notice how the the data sutta says Bhagavati Bhagawati Cattier a humpy Cattier I am a Katya because he was the sole ruling monarch of that kingdom. Whereas the the literally is say magga viharati Catia miam be CATIA, we also occurred to us we are aristocratic, because they were part of that Republic, where the Catia class elected rulers to rule the rule the rule of country. So even in those little differences, you find that the party is usually very consistent and very precise seconds of papilla want to also heard that the Buddha had become fully extinguished because he Naira and they sent an envoy saying the Buddha was out for most relative near the sector. We to deserve a share of the Buddha's relics we will build a monument for them and conduct a memorial service, a monument being a topo stupid bliss of Allah kappa also heard that the Buddha had become fully extinguished because he Naira and asked for a share of the relics on similar grounds. The bullies are almost unknown apart from his passage. I haven't been able to trace down any references to them. And they were probably one of the minor clans in that area, as were the Chaldeans who come up next and the Chaldeans were of course the clan of Maya, the Buddha's mother and their nation was neighbouring the sack Ian Republic, so not not far away from where we are now in Cushing, Nara, maybe just a days walk away from closing an IRA a couple of days walk maybe the Chaldeans of Ramat dharma also heard that the Buddha had become fully extinguished. acrossing IRA and they asked for a share of the relics on the same grounds, the brahman of werecat vipāka. Again, an unknown figure, presumably a well known brahman of the area, local area. He says the Buddha was an aristocrat and I'm Abrahamic, I deserve a share of the Buddha's relics, I will build a monument for them and conduct a memorial service. And the mothers of parva also heard that the Buddha had become fully extinguished because scenario. So notice that there are two groups of morality one from because he Nara and one from bhava, the same tribe with two main centers not far from each other. And they also asked for a portion of the relics. And the mother said the Buddha became fully extinguished in our village district, we will not give away a share of his relics. Oh my goodness. So that's this is this is this is looking problematic. Then donor, the brahman said to those various groups, again, the donor just kind of appears out of nowhere in this narrative, we do hear of donors a couple of other places in the suitors whether this is the same person or not, is impossible to say. And donor the brahman said to his various groups here says a single word from me. I would His teaching was acceptance can't be Rado, you it would not be good to fight over a share of the supreme person's relics. Let us make eight portions good says rejoicing in unity and harmony, let there be monuments far and wide. So many folk may gain faith in the clear eyed one. well-being brahman, you yourself should fairly divide the Buddha's relics in ancient innate portions, presumably spoken by the either by the Marlins or by the groups altogether. So Dona Dona makes the resolution to the conflict, it could have got very nasty. I mean, we know that tensions were heightened already. And the cause in our molars scenario wanting to hold on to them and everyone else wanting their own share. And as I mentioned at the beginning, that this threat of war is very real. And in fact, this is almost certainly the last time that we see a peaceful resolution among these groups, and among these clans, there are threats of war between the coastlines and magazines and magazines and the verges the seconds and the columns are columns coastlines of the mothers and the coastlines in the sack Ian's and so quite possibly, because of the latitude conflicts that there's the coastlines were in conflict with the mullahs and with the second is maybe why we do it about the Senator's son didn't send an emissary to the funeral. It seems a bit strange that actually the Buddha has spent most of his life after his enlightenment in kusala, at sati. And yet, they are conspicuously absent from the funeral. So by sparking conflicts with former allies, the seconds and molars, we do it about undid the successes of his father and fatally weakened the cause on Empire. When the dust settled a few decades later, all of these lands had been consumed by magga. So a breakdown not just of the Buddha and his life, but a breakdown of the order. And the Buddha's passing was invoked by donor as being an occasion for reinforcing the peace that was available at the time. So when he had done that here, divided the relics and said to them says, Please give me the urn, and actually build a monument for it and conduct a funeral memorial service. So they came down to the urn. When the mores of people are one that heard that the Buddha had become fully extinguished in cocinero, they asked for share with relics. But they were told that there was no portion of the relics left they had already been portioned out here take the embers. So they took the embers from the funeral pyre, memorials of people Awana, of course, also an obscure little tribe that were very hardly even heard of, at the time of the sutras. But that was not to remain the case, as Chandra Gupta the Marissa and then it shows you the Marissa established the greatest empire of the entirety of Indian history in the years to come. And so, this is marks the beginning I guess, of the connection between the mores and Buddhism. So that ends the main discourse on the departing on the relics. Now we then have another pair Since almost certainly this other passage added later, in fact, this is confirmed by the commentary which says it was added at the Council doesn't say which Council, either the first or second Council. King ajaan aside to magga the luxuries of SLE the second capital of up to the bullies of Allah cup of the Chaldeans of Rama Gama. Abraham and the wafer deeper the molars are part of the mothers of course, Māra, the brahman Dorna and the Mori is a popular one, build monuments for them and conducted memorial services. Thus, there were eight monuments for the relics and knights to the urn and a 10th for the embers. That is how it was in the old days. If ever met, Buddha poop, bhante. And again, these other verses also added even later. And these last verses, according to the commentary were added by the elders in Sri Lanka. The last this last verse, this passage here was added in the third cancel, and this next verse is added by the elders and the Sri Lanka. This is very unusual. And it's it's one of the very rare occasions when the commentary acknowledges that text is added as late as after the text had already arrived in Sri Lanka. It's not that uncommon for the commentary to say that something was added in the first council or second Council you find this, you know, somewhat frequently, but this is very, very rare. Having said which, certain portions of these verses are also shared with the Sanskrit texts, which is from the north of India. So it's not entirely clear that all of it was added in Sri Lanka. But probably most of it was. There were eight shares of the clear eyed ones relics seven were worshipped throughout India, but one share of them was excellent and men were worshipping Rama Gama by a Dragon King. No mention of that. Of course, in the pros, text one tooth is venerated by the gods of three and 30 and one is worshipped instead of Gandhara. Another one in the realm of the Kolenda King and one is worshipped by a Dragon King. Again, no mention of tooth relics in the main body of the sutta. And also no mention of these sort of mythical or obscure obscure places. ganhar being of course up in Monday, Afghanistan Kalinga being on the east coast of India. Through this glory, this rich earth is adorned with the best of us and I should mention that these places can power and Kalinga were not visited by the Buddha and weren't part of the Buddhist realm. At that time, but were mechanized, some time later.
Crude is the glory this rich earth is adorned with the best of offerings last the clear eyed ones corpse is well honored by the honorable, it's venerated by loads of God dragons and spirits and likewise, venerated by the finest Lords of men honored with joint palms when you get the chance for a Buddha is rare, even in 100, Ian's altogether 40, even teeth, and the body hair and the head, hair were carried off individually by Gods across the universe. So the emphasis on the tooth relics, of course, reflecting the importance of the Tooth Relic in Sri Lankan Buddhism, being a very distinctive feature of Sri Lankan devotional practice. So you can see there that the idea of the relics is sort of sort of gathering momentum. And it became a really defining feature of Buddhism. If we were if we were to ask from a perspective of early Buddhism and what the Buddha taught and what the Buddha practice, then if we asked, Did the Buddha teach us to go and worship relics? Then the answer would be no, we don't really find that in the sutras. And if we want to say Buddha taught us to meditate or to practice the eightfold path, then yes, because that's what the Buddha taught. However, I think we have to be careful not to be too swift, to judge others and to Swift to dismiss the means by which traditional Buddhist communities have maintained the presence of dhamma. Throughout all of this time, it is no mean feat. In fact, it is an incredible accomplishment to maintain and to pass down the dhamma. The purpose of entering the relics in a stupor is to create a lasting physical presence of the Buddha and that sense of connection. And that has, without doubt worked, and you can go to India today and worship at many of these places and still see the presence of the dhamma there and you can still feel a connection with the living presence of the dhamma. I mean, it's purely irrational. It's purely an emotional thing. But that doesn't make it any less powerful or any less meaningful. I think these days we have you know, like For myself, I work mostly with digital texts. And I'm very, very cognizant of how ephemeral everything that we're doing is. And everything that we're doing can just go disappear in a puff of smoke. And the means that the Buddha's community has used to create a lasting and sustaining of the Sasana have been successful to an unprecedented degree. And I think it's important for us to pay attention to this and to learn what we can from how they have gone about doing that. So that's the I think, the end of my what I had to say about my pony bhāvanā sutta. Now, anyway,
well, these are actually two comments from me, bhante one was about the jhānas and moha pajama team making a similar tour through the jhānas. That was one. I don't know if you'd like to say anything about that or not. And
yeah, yeah, I'll be obviously, you know, obviously establishing a kind of a narrative parallelism, right. So these things are done for a very, to send a message. Yeah, but no, please go on.
Well, the other comment was about a question that often arises, or as it has arisen often these days, because what is it? I'm, I'm sorry, I'm suddenly forgetting what the word is for it now. But like euthanasia is now legal. In California, so a person can choose if they wish to come to the end of their life. And normally, people aren't using the word suicide for that. And then the topic of how the Buddha and Mahapajapati passed away, and like, if that was intentional or not, and if it's intentional, then what do you and you know, so that's something that's come up for discussion. And I want to say anything about that.
I didn't know that, that those laws have been put when, when were those laws passed in California a
couple of years ago, okay, we're pandemic,
before the pandemic, okay. So in Australia, this happened, there was a sort of move in that area quite some time ago, about nearly 20 years ago or something. And it became quite a thing in Australia, because the first person who was doing it was a Buddhist. And the doctor who was sort of organizing his name is Philip Netsky. And so it became a kind of a thing in Australia that all you know, the Buddhists want to do euthanasia, of course, it was just a personal decision by somebody who happened to be a Buddhist. But because of that, Arjun Brown, invited him to do a panel with us in Perth at the Buddhist conference, and I was asked to be the, to moderate that panel. So that was fun. So we got to have that kind of discussion. And what really came across to me from him, you know, as being the doctor who had pioneered these techniques in Australia, was, what really came across to me was his his deep compassion, and what he was trying to do, and he was only interested in the welfare of his patients and and try to alleviate suffering. So obviously, this is a complex area, and it's not really, we're not going to come to any sort of cut and dried decisions. But that's anyway, that's just the impression that I had with that in terms of what the Buddha did. It's hard to say exactly, because on the one hand, it's a recognition of the fact that his lifespan is at an end. But also recognition of the fact that he's going to determine that now it's going to come to an end. And I think that the moha pony bhāvanā narrative holds that ambiguity quite deliberately. The Buddha could have prolonged his life. And you could use that as an argument to say, against sort of artificial prolongation of life. Right, but he just sort of allowed it to come to its natural course of events. But on the other hand, you know, he took his medicines and, you know, looked after himself the best that he could. So I don't know if we're gonna get any clear cut answers from something like moha pero anupassanā. But I do think that at the end of the day, you know, bear in mind the golden rule, it seems to be one of the places where, where the golden rule is violated almost entirely. I mean, do unto others as you would have others do unto you and I'm don't think I'm yet to meet a single person who would say yes, please keep me alive under any circumstances and just keep my heart beating as long as possible no matter what my quality live feeds. And yet when it comes to making that decision for others, we tend to be a lot more.
There's another side to it. I don't know if you're interested to continue with this. So you want to go on.
Please go on. Yeah.
So a few weeks ago, wisdom publications hosted one of their live online things, and it was on took them, which is in Tibetan Buddhism, when someone who is an advanced practitioner then enters into I don't maybe jhānas, enters into a kind of deep meditative state and their heart may have stopped, their breath may have stopped, but they might still be sitting up and there's no signs of decay. And we've seen that amongst a number of our local Bay Area meditators, especially those who develop jhana practice, that also when they passed away, then there is not like sign of decomposition of their body or some sometimes the room gets really bright, like our friend Margaret, or, you know, other things like this. And so there's a question. You know, when they were talking about the took down, they said that they shouldn't be disturbed. And that this is a really important time. And even they're using language like the jhāna like burning off as a kind of burning off that this is a very important time for the maturation and completion of many kinds of some cars and cameras. And this is very valuable was the way it was being talked about. But mostly for most of us here, the way the legal stuff is set up. They're going to be like ready to get the body out the door and get everything like done. So questions have been coming up about that also, would you like to comment?
Yeah, I mean, you see even in moha apparently, bhante. You see that even Anna ruder And Ananda were not, you know, not clear about exactly when the when the time the Buddha passed away, so yeah, sure, definitely. This can be the case. I don't know if you've probably heard there's an old story that I didn't brahman used to tell about this, one of the people at the Buddha society in Perth, and I met the fellow in question some years after these events happened. And so the way the story goes, and this is just my hazy memory, but the way the story goes, is that he was sitting at home in meditation, went into a very deep meditation. And his wife was preparing lunch or something like that. And she said, Oh, darling, lunch is ready. In here back. Lunch is lunch is ready. What's happening goes knocks on the door. He's just sitting there and meditation touches him, he doesn't move. So you see saddhā Panic calls the hospital, ambulance comes guys committees calm, put him on the stretcher, run him out, put him in the ambulance, doing CPR screaming through the streets of Perth with the siren blazing, rushing into the hospital bringing in theater. And he's just completely out. Nothing. He was having actually out of body experiences at this time. Like I've talked to him about the experiences happening. He wasn't like completely absorbed necessarily during this whole period. But he you know, at times, he was like floating down the corridor of the hospital and various kinds of things. Until eventually one of the doctors who was Indian had, you know, some understanding of meditation and said, Look, maybe he's just in a deep meditation just leave him. And so they left him. And after a while he came out of the meditation. He went back home and his wife said, Don't you ever do that again?
So it is a good argument for having multicultural staff in hospitals, because you never know when that kind of background is going to become in handy. But yeah, look, I don't have any clear cut argument about that. But I agree that that definitely is quite likely that those kinds of mistakes would be made. i If I could get to some of the other questions that folks Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, sure. Hey, gang, by the way. Oh, not
Yeah, no. Good to see you. Yeah. All right. Let's continue.
All right. So I guess I got shots, we want to take questions.
I've got the new I've got the new. I've got a few new chats here, but maybe you want to do the old ones so we don't lose them.
Okay, so Mao li asked, were there any Bhikkhuni in the first council or any other council? Do we have any more detailed information slash documentation on the council's even the most recent one?
So, unfortunately, no, I think the Buddha's intention was that the recitation be done among the fourfold sangha, but when it was actually done by organized by Mahakasyapa. He made it into a Vinyasa. Meeting. And when you have a veneer meeting, it's only the bakers or only the Bikuni. So present. And so unfortunately no according to the main historical records anyway, there wasn't any bikinis at the council's. Do we have historical records? Well, the videos include the records of the council, the first and second councils. And so, you know, they're obviously, very crucial record, there is a third Council record in the party commentaries, although it's only found in the party tradition, and various other councils through history, coming down to the most recent is the sixth Council in Myanmar. And I mean, honestly, not that easy to find really good accounts of what actually happened at the six Council in Myanmar. And these days, the texts that we use, including the text on sutta Central, descended from the redaction of the Canon produced at that six Council. But to be honest, I've never seen a really detailed actual reportage on what went down at the council. Apart from the basic details, so that would be interesting. I don't know if any historical scholars would be interested to excavate that. Rob.
Patsy was asking for a definition of wheel turning Māra Monarch
definition of a wheel turning monarch wheel turning monarch is an ideal cam, essentially mythological figure, who is it's like a it's a, it's a kind of a Buddhist adaptation of the Vedic host sacrifice, which establishes without violence or, or oppression, around from ocean to ocean, run according to the dharma and according to principle. And so this is this idea which is presented in a mythological context in the suitors of an ideal monarch. It's debatable whether there's been anybody in history who has really lived up to those ideals with obviously King Ashoka would be the closest example
another question, if any of the eight relic monuments mentioned still exist
Yeah, I mean, how to say exactly because typically what happens with these things is that they get built and then rebuilt over the years. So that typically there might be just like a small one there. That then might get taken out like they because compounding King Ashoka took them out and spread them further. So the original monument might be demolished, put back together and then later on built and built and built. So these things are kind of like onions is many layers of them. But some of them the sites are still known I think because the naira the verges where the Ashoka Pillar is in visa Li and probably some of the others so there's suddenly some where we have a fairly good idea where the relics and they may still be
there are a couple other questions which I might just skip just because I like on the jhānas and things like that they're probably way too long. We don't we don't have much time left so I probably don't want that. That very compassionate. There's a few more questions that came in the you have the the chat for.
Yeah, sure. I've got these these new ones. So from DITA how's it going Geeta? Thank you for sharing this beautiful sutta with all of us. Were my absolute pleasure, Nikita. May I enjoy longevity with great health and shower the dharma with all of us. Sorry, sad, sad. Oh, well, that's very nice. Thank you so much. Kita. Kaz asked, how's it going Kaz explaining the important sutta mixture of early and later parts, which which do I read? which path do I recommend to take as more important? How do I put this? To me? All of the different parts have an importance. And the purpose of historical scholarship is not to dismiss parts and say, well, this doesn't matter because it was later. But it's to try to understand more deeply the meaning of different passages in terms of the what it meant to the people at that time in that place. And so it's about coming to a more layered understanding where we can see the particularity and the changes in the historical circumstances and All that is reflected and mirrored in people's understanding of things. And so to me, it's not I try not to think of in terms of like, you know, more important or less important, but try to look at it in terms of what can I learn from those different aspects rubbish. Okay, so Robert hunt mentions that in Dunedin in 2012, animal totem Rinpoche sangha were allowed to leave him in death meditation for 18 days without deterioration. Before the medical authority then insisted on cremation or burial. Crikey. He was really dead. That's all I can say. That will be very, very inconvenient. Yeah. But it's interesting, though, isn't it? I mean, then these stories are not, you know, not. These are not just kind of mythical events. I mean, these are real people in real times and places. And it's not that. I mean, it's fairly unusual in the sense, but it's like, it's not it's not that unusual. It does seem to happen anyway. Charles Lee asked, Are there any tradition of lay people putting on theatrical performances of the Mahabodhi manasota? Not as far as I know, but I think it's a good idea. It would be an interesting concept. People do, like act out different parts of things. So that, you know, in a way, like performing the rituals in a way kind of acting out, like I mentioned, bowing to the feet of the reclining Buddha in the MA piety banner, or going on the pilgrimage. So in a sense, the performance of these rituals is in a way acting things out. But the Buddhist traditions did have their work. So theatrical traditions for presenting jar tickers and things like that. But I've not heard of traditions of presenting moha paññā nibbāna sutta problem may be the case that the suitors were felt to be too sacred to be presented in that way. I think the Artic was probably a little bit more profane, and a little bit more rewarding, presented in that way. Okay, so now Lee asks, if we have time combined to say a few words about how sutta and Vinaya were formalized, conserved and transmitted during the Buddhist time, and perhaps until the end. Thank you so much for your faith family, I think that's very, your confidence in my ability to do that is it's very, very, very nice to hear. I don't know if I can, I think we're a bit over time. And I honestly don't know if I can say enough about those things to make all that much sense. But let me just say this, according to my understanding, the the dharma and Vinaya, as preserved in this way, today, in the citizen of India, were more or less and without being more fundamentalist about it, we're more or less formed in the time after the Buddhist power nibbāna. And that's usually located at the first council. And then we're more or less held in common among the Buddha's community for the next couple of 100 years, until the time of Ashoka, or a little bit later. And it's from that time that the sangha began to diverge and to form different schools of dharma. But those different schools of dharma all inherited versions of the sutras and the Vinaya, all of which were more or less similar. And typically what happened, the traditions were quite conservative in maintaining the citizen the venue, but they develop the new doctrines by adding new texts on top of that, and so in partly that's with the abbey dhamma and commentarial texts, and other traditions did that as well. And so the sources and the venue have always been the shared basis that provides a common ground for all the different traditions of Buddhism. So again, without wanting to take, I could do another course on that question. But anyway, we'll leave it at that for now. Sadhu, Sadhu saññā. Thank you so much, everybody, for coming. And thanks so much to rob and all the folks at the sati center for helping to put this on and making it all possible and also special thanks to all of the good folks at zoom for making this possible. And without them, their world would collapse this last few years. But anyway, congratulations. And yeah, may or thrive in the dhamma and I hope to see you all again soon.