Welcome to another episode of the radical massage therapist podcast today I have not necessarily someone who is a radical massage therapist but she definitely was a radical therapist in her past. And Lindsey Barnum is our guest today and Lindsey is a private practice therapist turned money coach who helps private practice owners and health professionals feel calm and in control of their finances. Through her coaching at money, nuts and bolts, and her podcast money skills for therapists. It all started when she saw her extremely skilled colleagues struggle with the money side of business. Some had even left their private practice or were avoiding starting one because the financial side was too stressful. So Lindsay decided to help therapists and health professionals develop peace of mind about their money. Since so many were never taught these skills. She focuses on the how of making the business side of private practice doable, and even super satisfying. I hope you enjoy this episode with Linzy Bonham.
Linzy, thanks so much for joining us on the radical massage therapist podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here.
Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here, fellow
podcaster and money coach. And you were also a therapist prior to this. So yes, you're not practising anymore, right? No, I'm not. No, you've completely transitioned into the money coach side?
I did, yes. Which would have been two or three years ago now that I fully shut down my private practice.
All right, I would like what was the decision for you to fully transition?
Yeah, I mean, I started doing my like money coaching and my financial education work on the side of my desk, you know, when I was a full time therapist, and that was back in 2018. The work that I did was trauma therapy. So it was very kind of depth full, really meaningful, but also like challenging work, you know, that took a lot out of me. And so as I started to build up money skills for therapists, which is the course that I teach, I started to realise like, oh, I might be able to actually just like, lean into this. And then I'm Canadian. And so when I had my son, I went on a one leave Matt, leave one year, married, which is what we do around here. And so I had like time to really think about what do I want to do and kind of my emotional energy and knowing that I had, you know, like, this little person at home, who looked at me for everything, like as you know, being a mother kind of changed my perspective on the work a little bit because I think, as a therapist, I felt needed by my clients. But like, as a parent, you're like, oh, no, this person really needs me. Like, there's people in my life who thought that they needed me. But they're actually like adults, or they have other adults in life, or like this person who loves me for everything. It made me curious about, like, maybe I could just lean into teaching and lean into my financial work, and save my, you know, deepest emotional energy for my son. So when I came back from mat leave, rather than going back into private practice, I like made a big investment in my teaching business, and just like leaned fully in to teaching. And then I did have a couple clients who came through who broke through my, I'm not taking clients message to be like, Could you see me and they were like, all my favourites. So I did see like a handful of clients. But eventually, I just felt like the spark for the work wasn't there in the same way. And it was really important to me, that I do feel really excited and engaged about the work, the therapy work. So a couple of years ago, I made the decision to just close off with those last few folks that I was seeing and just fully lean into the financial coaching, which is where I do have like Spark and ease like, you know, following your flow, my flow definitely led me here.
I love that. And then you know, when you're home with your your son, and you're building this, this new venture that you're you're passionate for that's so exciting. And I read a little bit about in your bio, that part it you're not just coming at the financial side from like, you know, out of nowhere, one will discuss that you definitely saw your colleagues struggling, but you have a bit of like the bookkeeping bug from your your family as well. Right was your dad that was the accountant. My
mom, definitely my mom. Definitely not my dad. Yeah, no, my dad is like, I feel like I'm this combination of my parents. So my dad is the people person who like loves humans, and he was a salesman and like, just like so people oriented, which I also am, and my mom was an accountant. So I kind of got this like a mash up of their personality traits, which has given me what I have. But yeah, definitely I had a good grounding in financial education from my mom, but also just that interest and aptitude towards like numbers and spreadsheets and like I get excited about that stuff. Just like I get excited about, you know, connecting with people and depth with conversate Since
that's wonderful, and I, my grandfather was an accountant. And he's, he's passed, but like, I spent a lot of my, my years in his office and then worked very briefly with him while I was building my massage practice at the very beginning. And I was just, you know, putting receipts into spreadsheets. And when I started practising what was strange, and maybe there's, you know, some connection here that we're what we're going to talk to, but I really liked the behind the scenes of my business, I like doing those spreadsheets and inputting the numbers. And I am I do enjoy being a massage therapist. But I found that I was, I was more like, interested in that that, which was strange and was like, when I had to leave that and be like, Oh, go practice as like, Oh, yeah. But that wasn't what I was getting paid for. Yes, no.
Yeah. Which I think like, shows that you kind of have the business bug, right, which makes sense that you've also expanded in these other directions, because like, I think, health practitioners who go into business, and when we do go into private practice, we are going into business, I think there's there's two different reactions that folks have one is like that, where they're like, Oh, I actually really liked this. And like, I get to use these other kinds of skills that I have now in this business, where other people are like, Oh, no, I have to do spreadsheets. Like I have to think about taxes. So I think people have very different relationships to, to that business side of private practice, which all of us have to deal with, but for some of us is definitely funner. than for others. Yeah. I
mean, you make a great point that like, even individual practice, like we're all in business for ourselves as an individual practice, and part of being a business owner, is all this behind the scenes stuff, which you help people, you know, manage and actually get some satisfaction and enjoyment out of based on on your teachings. Yes. So if we segue from the spreadsheets, and the the how, which you definitely teach and we can get into, but the how, that the, the systems, I should say, are not enough. And there's also a lot of shame around around money, and we don't realise that we're bringing it into our business is because we have, you know, things that we've learned in our past or our experiences that we've had. So can we just start right there? Because I feel like that is something that I do see a lot of and I've struggled with in the past, any shame?
Yeah, money, shame. It's, this is what I've discovered, like when I first started teaching therapists, I knew obviously, that they had to learn how to use spreadsheets, and they had to learn about taxes, and they had to learn all these things. But what comes first, and what you have to deal with first is all of this that we're talking about, right? It's like the shame, money shame, like a lot of therapists that I work with, and a lot of health practitioners that I work with. They're like people who are used to being good at things, right. Like they've, they've learned a certain skill set, they're good at helping other people solve their problems, which is what we do as like healers and practitioners is somebody comes up with a problem, and you're like, I can solve that for you, which feels so great, it feels so good in control, right. And so what I find is when we are not good at something, and when we haven't stayed on top of something, and in this case, there's something being money, right, like when we feel unclear or we know we're not doing the things that we're supposed to be doing. Or maybe we don't even know if we deserve to be making money in the first place or feel bad about money and feel bad that people are even paying us for the thing that we're doing all of that like that emotion, and it's like shame, anxiety, stress, fear, sometimes it's defeat, all of that gets in the way of being able to actually learn and set up systems, right? Because this is my you know, my therapist, kind of knowledge coming through is that when you're in that kind of response, you're in more of like the survival part of your brain, right? Like your body is reading, danger, and your brain is overwhelmed and an overwhelmed brain can't learn. We can't think straight. Right. And that is I think so much of therapists and health practitioners relationship to money and their experience of money is all of those emotions and stories and as you say, that come from like past experiences. It creates a lot of noise, and it can create a lot of barriers to actually getting money working for us in our private practices.
So what is one example of one of the stories we might have told ourselves or one of these barriers we might come up against? Because, you know, we might think we're, we're fine with it. But as you just said that, that freeze that overwhelm is an obvious sign that we have some some shame around it. And as therapists sometimes we don't, we don't want to turn things on ourselves. You know, we're very skilled at helping others and Showing them the way. Yeah, exactly. Can you give some examples that might be relatable to the listeners?
Yeah, I mean, I think about the way that I teach, there's kind of two zones of money. There's like finances and math. And there's that part of our relationship to it. And then there's just like money itself, and like capitalism and being part of this bigger world and these bigger systems. So on the finances side, there can be the story that like, I'm not good at math. I'm not a numbers person. I've heard some very, very competent, very smart therapists tell me that they're not smart. They're stupid. They can't figure things out. And some of these are stories that come from like, grade two math class, you know, grade seven math class, some teacher made an offhand comment of like, well, we're just going to try to get you through this basic math. And then obviously, you're going to drop this as soon as you can. Some tiny comment to our developing brains can just, you know, plant like a seed and grow over the years, right? Yes.
Like, like your parents saying, oh, yeah, you're just like me, I'm bad with numbers.
Exactly. Exactly. And like those identity pieces, because that is a story about who you are, right? And that's what shame is about a shame is a feeling that is this idea that it's fixed. There's something wrong with me, like, I'm bad. I'm not good at this. I'm a failure. Right. And those are stories about identity, which is fixed, which makes it really hard to think about changing it, because you're like, Well, I'm, I'm bad at money. My dad was bad at money. He told me, I was just like him, I'm bad at money. That's who I am. And that makes it hopeless to change, right? When we have those beliefs, right. So there's that that area around our skills and our intelligence and like our abilities with money, but then the other side, there's a relationship to money itself, like money is bad. You know, like people who have money are selfish. If I have money, I'm selfish. I shouldn't charge for the work that I do. I should be helping people because I have this gift to share. Why am I charging? You know, like, there's, those are bigger questions about kind of the meaning of money and the system that we live in? And do we like it? Do we not? Do we believe that there are winners and losers and we want to be limited, like a winner? Or do we feel bad about, you know, earning any money at all. That's a whole other area where we can hold all of these beliefs that make it really hard to build a good relationship with money.
Right? And when you're speaking of shame, and these examples, can you share what the difference would be for guilt around money? Yeah, yeah. So
guilt. I mean, the difference between guilt and shame is shame, as we said, is that fixed piece around identity, I am bad. Guilt is where we've done something that's out of alignment with our values. But we can still see this difference of like, I feel really bad that I did that. Because that's really not who I am. That's not what I believe. And that's not what I value. Right. So guilt might be something like overspending on something that you told yourself, you're gonna like, go out for dinner and you only have 50 bucks, but then you spend 90 Because there's this like fun dessert and your friends are getting an appetiser. So you feel you have to get an appetiser and later you're like, I shouldn't have done that I, I made a promise to myself, and I broke that promise. But when you're in guilt, you're still you don't feel bad about who you are, you just know you did something that doesn't align with your values. Okay, so guilt is often like a more productive place, because then the natural question is, okay, if I wasn't my values, what would I have done? And the next time how do I do something that feels more aligned with what I actually value, which is going to feel way better? Right? So guilt, still not a fun emotion. But it does give us more opportunity right away to think about, okay, how do I actually get in alignment with what I really believe and care about? So
if we do feel this money, shame, and believe these stories, I can imagine it's pretty challenging one to recognise them. And I mean, you've already said that it can be hope, hopeless, not impossible, but hopeless to change those, those stories. So what are some, what are some ways that we can start to recognise that that own talk and then start to make some some cheat totally. And
to be clear, like the hopeless? It's not that it is hopeless, it's that you feel hopeless. Okay. Like if you have the story, this is who I am. That story gives no room, there's no room for the light to get it right. So hopelessness and defeat often go along with shame. But I mean, the first step really is starting to name and recognise, oh, okay, this makes sense that I think this because my dad always said this thing to me, or I always saw that my, my mom always spent so much money. And my whole life, everybody told me how much I'm like my mom. So I must also have this trait that she had. And I'm also going to, like, do these things that harm my family, right? It's like, once you can identify that that's the story. I find there's there's two things, you know, in terms of approaching how we make changes in our beliefs. One is kind of a little bit of like, fake it till you make it right up noticing like, oh, that's there. What if I didn't believe that? What if I did something different? You know, like, starting to act differently and let yourself try out that like, what if I actually am good at spending? Right and starting to learn yourself, let go of that story and just play with the new version of what you want to believe talk to people in your life about you want to believe start to let yourself notice where that story isn't true. What are the exceptions to that story? Right? What are examples of where you have been really great with saving money? Like maybe somehow you got yourself through grad school? That's amazing. Like, how did you do that? Right. So like, sometimes when we see and can name the story, that is enough to start to be able to dismantle it, and to make it lose its power. Other times if it's like really heavy, and sometimes, you know, our stories about money are linked to like true trauma, right? They're, they're linked to poverty, just like financial instability in the family, they might be linked to emotional abuse, you know, there's so many parts of money that are much deeper, or about our sense of self worth, or safety. And with those things, what I find is if if you come across something that's like, cool, that's too much, then it's time for therapy, right? Or it's time to like, really gently start to unpack that with somebody, somebody else that you trust, or start to journal on it gently. But those are things that don't change overnight. But again, even just being aware of that it's there. Once you're able to start to take distance from it, then you can start to name oh, okay, there's that thing again, oh, my money, shame is coming up again. Okay, then I can notice it, now I can start to do something about it. I can think about like, what do I need? Do I need to get up and go for a walk? Am I going to call my friend? Am I going to like have a dance party? And then like sit down and keep working on it like, now you have an opportunity to do something when you can create space from what's happening for you?
Yeah, that's really helpful when you're when you're in that, that space as well. What I was actually in a question, while we were chatting there about the stories, which is not now escaped me, and I should have written it down. But yeah, oh, it was going to be. So while we're creating those stories, what I find really interesting is that, we don't always seek that, that professional input or that professional help, for whatever reason, we turn to, I mean, if if we're surrounded by therapists, then we might, or even like a mentor in the, in our practice, we might go to that person for advice. But the truth is that they're probably, if they're kind of in the same circle, depending they're probably just as lost in these skills as you are. And and I'm so glad that you did mention that, you know, there is a time for therapy. But why, in your opinion, do you feel like we we go to our peers? Before we seek that, that Pro? That commandments? Very interesting. Yeah.
I mean, I think that there's still a stigma around needing help, in general, even with therapists themselves, like I, you know, many, many, many of the folks that I serve in my course that I work with our mental health therapists, like they are psychologists, and they are, you know, marriage and family therapists, but it's a lot to really admit to yourself, and then to somebody else, like, I really need help with this. It's not just like, you know, talking with a friend over coffee, like, this is actually something that is really weighing on me and really getting in the way of my life. It's a brave thing to do. And it's a hard thing to do. So I think that's part of it, right is like, it's scary to acknowledge that something really isn't working. And so that in itself can be difficult. But I also think with things like we're talking about with money, shames, particularly, often we don't even realise that that's what's there, right? Like, we don't have that awareness to realise, oh, there's like something deeper going on here. Or we don't necessarily have the awareness to like, listen to that mentor, and be like, Oh, I think that mentor has some, like, kind of like noise in the way here, they have their own money stories coming up. And that can be really damaging, especially for young practitioners, you know, you go to like a supervisor for advice. And they give you bad advice based on like their own issues with money. Or sometimes I've even heard of folks where, you know, you're really trying to step up. And like, for instance, in the mental health field, we have a lot of range on how much we can charge for fees. And so I've heard of many, many therapists, where they like are like, you know, what, I'm really good at what I do, I'm gonna raise my fee by like a bunch of money. And then their supervisors like, well, you, you can't do that. Like you haven't been practising long enough or like, these people are only charging this and it's like, we do police each other as well. Right? So it takes a little while to start to notice the stories that are running under the surface. But when you do it's really helpful because often, you know, folks will give you advice out of the goodness of their hearts and they don't even realise that they're putting their own stuff on you their own money stories. They're projecting on to you. There's just a lack of conversation around these things in general, right, like there's a lot of silence around money.
Yeah, and as you said, like with policing each other as well and then we have a couple you know, Facebook groups community Here's where we're, we're there to support each other as massage therapists. And somebody might bring up a money question. And I'm just always amazed at, like, 800 800 comments and, and almost everybody has a different opinion. But you know, as I said, nobody's sending them out to a reliable resource. They're all just kind of the blind leading the blind. But it was so brave of that person to to ask in the first place, as you said, but it was just so interesting. Let's talk about the, as somebody who's in their private practice, we're working on our money beliefs, when we recognise, and that we do want to make changes, these changes can cost money, as they're like to go to therapy or to take courses to hire a coach, or a mentor. Can you describe that experience, or the importance of that? And you said yourself, you leaned right into investing in your coaching? And it does take some, some spending to to learn these skills? Is there any advice on that?
Absolutely. Like, I'm a big fan on two concepts when it comes to making these kinds of decisions. One is return on investment. And one is right thing right time. Right? Okay. So as we're building in our businesses, I mean, we have infinite things to learn. So there's that right. And it sometimes can be really tempting to be like, Oh, well, I want to learn how to like use Instagram for marketing. And I also want to learn this like new modality, that's like, really exciting. And I also want to learn about how like to make my own website, because I could save a lot of money. If I just take this course, instead of building your website. And suddenly, you're pulling yourself in five different directions. In business, it's really important to be able to slow down and ask yourself, like, what is the most important thing I need to focus on right now, there's always going to be a list of projects slash problems, what is the actual project or problem that I need to be solving right now, to get me where I want to go. And I'm a big, big fan of focus, and letting yourself do one thing at a time, maybe one and a half, but probably one, to actually get the full value out of it. And that's what return on investment is about. So return on investment, you know, it's a financial concept, where it's like, you're gonna put in money, how many times over? Are you gonna get that money back? Right? If I put $1 into something, and I get $10 back because of doing that, that's a 10 times return on an investment. It's a very good investment. So one of the things that I encourage folks to think about is to think about this specific problem that I'm trying to solve and the solution that I'm looking at this course that I'm looking at, if I look at their promise, and if I think about if I get like half of that? Or if I think about what would be the results that I would want to get out of that I need to get out of that. What would be the return to my business? And how much is it costing me to make that investment? Is a good return on investment? Like will I actually get my money back in some tangible way? That's number one. Number two, is, is this the right thing at the right time, right? If I'm already doing four other things, it's probably not a good idea to actually invest in a big expensive course, because I don't have the bandwidth, and I don't have the time. And I'm just gonna feel really frustrated that I'm seeing myself not doing the thing that I committed my money to, and my time is ticking by and I'm not getting the value out of it. That's a terrible experience, right. But if it is the right thing, if it's the right problem that you need to solve, if it's the right person to teach you, if there's a fit there, if it's the right container, like it's got the right amount of support, or the right way of learning, and it's the right time, then you need to commit to actually doing it. And if you commit to actually doing it, I personally have never made like an investment in an online course, that I have not gotten good return on investment, when I've actually shown up. If I don't do it, then of course, I'm gonna get no return on investment. But yeah, so that's always my advice is like, think about what is the return? Is this the right thing at the right time? Can you trust yourself? And can you actually commit to doing it, and then do it? And you know, I think nine, nine times out of 10, nine and a half 9.9 times out of 10 You are going to get a really great return when you do the right thing at the right time and really do it. Yeah.
I love that and force for profession that's hands hands on, and we know we are returned, like one hour. What is going to give us that, that return? Yeah. And we're learning a new skill. So when one thing so even, like, if we're learning a new hands on skill, that might be something that we can apply to our practice more directly, we can understand the investment we're making in the course we're gonna learn this new skill or we're gonna be able to market to new clients, when we're learning a professional skill, like learning how to manage our money and, you know, overcoming money, barriers. What, what, how would, how would that look like on the other side for six us.
Yeah. Like, how would you determine what the return on investment could be? Yes, yeah. Yeah. So for instance, like, I would think about what is the problem you're trying to solve. So for instance, with a course like mine, where you're learning financial skills, you're building out real financial systems. If your problem, for instance, is that you don't save enough for taxes, and tax season comes, and you need to find like six or $7,000. Right, I would think of one example would be okay, if I take this course, and I actually follow what she says, and I learned how to save enough for taxes. That means that next year, I'm going to have six or $7,000. Ready that I don't have to scramble, that is like there and set aside. So that right there is like the relief of not having to scramble and knowing that the money has gone to the right place, right, because it's not always necessarily even about more money. But it's about like money being where you need it. And that's a big part of like, what I teach folks, but with that I would look at, okay, if I got that that would be immediately a three times return on investment, for instance, right? Because my course is about $2,000. I'm gonna save six, my course, being the person who's selling it, personally is taking into spending six. So it's like they will get a three times return on investment, the money that they put in, they now have three times sitting there to relieve that burden. They don't have to like scramble. Right? But then I would also think about what are my other problems? Like, do I tend to overspend? When I look at my spending? Am I spending like 50% of what I make on my business, instead of sending it home to myself? That I'd be like, Okay, if I could get my spending down to like, 30%, which I've heard is a better ratio. How much money would I be saving? Like, what's that 20% difference, and then play that out over a year, maybe there, I'm gonna save another $5,000, which I know I'm gonna be able to send home to myself. Right, there's another $5,000 and then put that into your equation of like, I'm, you know, bringing back 11. spending two, is that a good deal? So yeah, it's starting to think about part of it is being expansive, too, right? Because like, when we are stuck in financial problems, sometimes it's hard to imagine what it would look like if we solve these problems. So part of it is giving yourself permission to be like, what if I actually had all my tax money? What if I could save $5,000 for a trip with the skills that I built? So thinking about like, what, what do you actually need this thing to do in your business? And then what is the financial aspect, but then, of course, there's always this intangible aspect Christa of like, the relief that we get increased confidence, you know, like spaciousness, like, whatever else it is, that also these investments can be giving us, that's not a number. But that is just as important as a number in so many ways. Those
are great examples. I really appreciate that. Because as you know, I think just being so hands on, I think, and again, already not strong in these skills. So it's just really helpful to have those, those examples. And that's great. I, what I do love about those examples is that you did not say, so you can have more time to work, and you're
not, because that's not
always what it's about either. It will give you less stress while you're working. And you won't be resenting that client on your table or, you know, really feeling desperate and having that desperate energy for clients, which is also something that you can't pinpoint. But it's such a wonderful experience. When you're, you know, you're you don't need need need that client. Yeah. So that I love that you didn't say that. So you can just add more hours and work because you love doing massage? No,
no, no, no, no. And I mean, so much of what I think about with all kinds of healing work is that we have a finite amount of that energy, like whether it's like, your hands and your arms and your like, literal muscle strength, right. And then, you know, in your profession, the increased risk of injury once you've overused yourself and like, that's, you know, a very real risk or whether it's in mental health therapy, that emotional energy you have and like, it doesn't feel good to sit with a client and be like, I'm tired, can't wait to go home. That's not good. They can feel that from you on some level, and you're not feeling good. You're not showing up as your best self, right? So I'm a really big fan of building sustainable businesses, where it's like, what do I need to get from this business? What do I need to bring home? What do I need my schedule to look like? How many clients a week do I want to see? In what kind of schedule like, do I want to four days a week? And see like four clients a day? Or do I want to work five days a week and see three clients a day? Right, like really thinking about what you need to thrive? Because we really need to be strategic as healers to do the work that we do long term, right? Like so many folks are out of our professions, because they tried to do as much as they can. And we're, we are working with finite resources, and those really have to be respected. So I'm a big fan of building businesses strategically, not to maximise because we can't maximise what we do. But we can be really like thoughtful and strategic so we can keep doing it. Well. Yeah, absolutely.
I love the word sustainable on the podcast we try to include You know, any guests and topics? That's really what it is, it is all about. So that's really, really helpful. Since you did mention taxes, and we're both in Canada, and it is prime time right now, do you have anything actionable, little bite size tidbit for saving for taxes as solo practitioners, because I unfortunately this time of the year will see massage therapists who did not save enough. And for the next probably two to three months, they're gonna be almost working for free when they think when you think about it, because they're trying to make make up this income and it's really unfortunate. I have also been in that position. I did it like one year and that was that was that. But it's a it's hard to come out of that that hole as well. If you're not focused. It is. And it's just a really a loop cycle for a lot of them. Do you have anything? That's that's tangible for today?
Yeah. I mean, there's there's two things. First is a mindset piece. And the second is the system that goes with it. The mindset piece is connecting with the unfortunate but definite truth that tax money is not your money, right? Like that money that you know, the government is coming for, you're holding it on their behalf, but like, they will come for it, it is theirs, right. And so there's a mindset piece about not getting attached to every dollar that you make. Because when we get too attached to every dollar that we make, which is easy to do, we spend every dollar that we make, and then exactly as you're talking about tax season comes around, it's like oh no, they're actually going to ask me for the taxes that I knew they were going to ask me for, but I kind of hope they weren't somehow. So that mindset piece is really important. So as you're thinking about collecting the money, it's how do you make it clear that some of this money is for you. Some is for running the business, and some is for taxes, and you're just holding it on behalf of the government until they say like, handed over. Right. So to that end, or practical sense. I am a really big fan of separation in our money, boundaries, you know, is like the therapeutic term. And having separate bank accounts is so clarifying when it comes to this question, right? Because when we have all of our money in one bank account, consciously or not, it's all kind of lumped together. It feels like it's all kind of ours or at the very least it's fuzzy like you don't really know what's what and you know, some of that is definitely tax money, but like exactly how much some of it. So I like a profit first style system Profit First is a system by Mike McCalla wits. But lots of folks have put therapist spins on it. And we have in our mental health space, there's money skills for therapists with Julie Harris, colleague of mine wrote this book. And in profit, first, you separate your money into these different buckets. And you do it on a regular basis. But the idea is like, on a regular basis, you are saying, Okay, I'm going to put aside 25% of every dollar I make, I'm going to put aside for taxes. I just every Friday, I sit and I see, okay, I've collected this much, I'm gonna send 25% of that over to this taxes bank account where it's very clearly taxes, I'm not going to accidentally spend it, I'm not going to confuse it with something else. So that you're doing this very proactive you're marking, that means that you don't get that emotional attachment of like, Paul, but that's my money. It's like, no, no, that's tax money. But it also means often what I see with Profit First is like, worst case scenario, you under save by $1,000 for taxes, or $2,000. Best case scenario, you overstayed by $1,000. And then you get to like, take a nice little weekend trip or put some extra money into your retirement. So, you know, I'm a big fan of like not being perfectionistic. It's like, if you hit it at 85 or 80%, you're still way ahead of where you would have been. So that separation piece is a really, really key and easy. Once you get started once you set up that account, just build that habit of sending the money over. Very clarifying.
Yeah, I love that. Okay, so mindset. And then the strategy. Yes,
you'll see this is my one two punch always. Yeah, it's like mindset first strategy. Second, because if our mindset is not there, then the strategy we're not going to implement, because if there's a part of us, it's like, no, but that's my money. Yeah, I don't want to, then we're not actually going to like set it aside. Yeah.
And that goes back to like the system, you know, we can be so eager, oh, if I just take this course. Or if I just learn this skill, or if I just find this app, you know, it's all going to change. But it's not because as you're saying that mindset is, is key. Yes,
absolutely. Yeah. It's our relationship to these things that often dictates what's easy and what's hard for us. On
the on the topic there of Profit First, I do I do like that book and and that's a great example for taxes. Do you have any recommendations for how how much we should be paying ourselves as private practice?
Yeah, I mean, the Profit First does give helpful starting points for that. And the the first kind of starting point with profit. First is that operating expenses, which is what you pay for your your rent your materials for your clinic, your clinic management software, that should be 30% or less, right. And I see that for the vast majority of private practitioners that I work with, it's 30% or less, for those of us who can do our work online, it's going to be on the lower side, because we don't have to rent a space. If you have to rent a space, that's always a big variable that like puts you more towards that 30% mark. But if you can keep your operating expenses, below 30%, that means the other 70% gets to go to you in different forms. And those two forms is in taxes, and then salary. And like, I like to add other things to profit first and have buckets of like maternity leave bucket or retirement bucket like actually in your practice and built into your Profit First system. But really, that is salary money that you're choosing to put towards certain goals and very deliberate ways. But what that would mean, generally speaking, Krista is that we see it's like 30%, goes towards running the business. And then about 20% of that of what's left, you put aside for taxes. So it's like 30%, op x 20%, taxes, the rest of that, which is 50%, is what you would take home to yourself just straight cash paycheck, that's your cash pay. So for some people, those numbers will be a little different. If you earn more, your operating expenses might be relatively less. But those numbers are a good starting place for all of us. Yeah.
And that's really helpful as well. And then what, what is that you kind of already mentioned that the numbers are gonna look different for other people, but like, what would you say in your experience? Is the private practice roller coaster? In your, in your view?
Yeah. So the private practice, roller coaster, is the worst roller coaster ever. And that is like the ups and downs that we experience, as private practice owners have those like busy seasons, where you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm making so much money. This is amazing. I'm gonna be able to, like, retire early. And then it's like a quiet season where you're like, oh, no, I can barely pay myself this month, right. And there's this updown experience that we all get there's a seasonality to the work that we do. And it's different for different practitioners in different places, and different populations that you work with, like who is your, you know, target client group. But that up and down of the revenue, when we don't have systems built up can be an emotional roller coaster as well. Right. It's like, we get the highs and lows. And we're kind of riding that revenue roller coaster, which is a really stressful and unsustainable way for us to be in business. When
we feel like we're like, pulled along, we have more money, we can get paid more money. We have less money now we're broke. And that can be like literally one month after the other. Okay, wonderful. And which, you
know, we everybody can can relate to? For for sure. Yeah. That that was like the nitty gritty are the nuts and bolts as you would say, your business? Yes. I would love cute for you to share the next steps that therapists can take to, to get in touch with you. Sure.
Yeah, if folks are curious about what I do, and to learn more, they can go to money, nuts, and bolts.com/thrive. That's where you can find my training, how to make peace with money and thrive in your private practice, without burning out skipping a paycheck, or sleepless nights worrying about debt. So this is my training, where you're gonna get the real kind of overview of why health practitioners struggle with money, we're going to talk about the Keep it simple tax strategy. So we're gonna get into taxes, more than we talked about today, and talking about financial systems that work for therapists and why they're different than everyone else's. So that's a free training that folks can access at money, nuts and bolts.com/thrive. Or if they want to do more of like a listening background experience, they can check out the money skills for therapists podcast, which is my podcast. Excellent.
And I will leave all of this in the show notes, the all of the free resources and all of your websites and Instagrams and all of that it's so lovely to know that you're in Canada as well. Because I think the majority of our listeners are from Canada. And I feel like the majority of the well known money mindset resources are in the States. Yes. So it is nice to have a Canadian resource for sure. Yeah.
And what I do is like I work with Americans and Canadians and some Europeans as well, because the foundational stuff is the same across the board. But yeah, I do speak specifically to Canadian pieces in the course, in our system is not exactly the same as the US or Europe. So yeah, I also I also like being Canadian, the more that I spend time with Americans, the more I'm like I was lucky to be born where I'm born. Well,
thank you so much for your time, Lindsay, I know that you have a busy schedule. I know that spring is here and you're a gardener as well. So I'm sure you're looking forward to spending some time in the garden. Imagine
Yes. Thank you so much, Krista for having me on the podcast.
