S11 BONUS: Judy Heumann's Legacy and the Future of Disability Rights
3:38PM Sep 25, 2023
Speakers:
Tim Villegas
Torrie Dunlap
Andy Arias
Diego Mariscal
Emily Ladau
Keywords:
judy
intersectionality
disability
andy
legacy
diego
emily
disability rights
work
adea
talk
duty
disabled
love
today
learn
wanted
person
human
people
Hey y'all, it's Tim Vegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education and you are listening to a bonus episode of thinking inclusive thinking inclusive is a podcast that brings you conversations about inclusive education and what inclusion looks like in the real world. Today I am again at one of my favorite places circle of friends coffee shop in Woodstock, Georgia. And today, we have a bonus episode that our friends at kids included together is helping us with Tori Dunlap, the CEO of kids included together contacted me a while ago, we actually have a future episode with Tori on thinking inclusive, and she had a great idea. They were hosting a panel discussion about the legacy of Judy human, and she asked if we would produce it as a bonus. So you're about to hear a panel discussion with Tori Dunlap in some fantastic people. I will let Tori introduce them. Thanks for being a listener of thick inclusive, and we will be back with our regular weekly episodes next week. Thanks everyone have a great week.
Right before we officially get started, I just want to let everybody know that this panel discussion is being recorded. And barring any technical meltdowns. We are using this recording as a bonus episode for the think inclusive podcast hosted by Tim Vegas. So we will let you know when that comes out. So you can share it within your networks. But that's that's what we're doing. So that's the part of the special fun of today. Hello and welcome. Thank you all for being here. My name is Torie Dunlap I am the CEO of kids included together a nonprofit that teaches disability inclusive and behavior support practices to child care and youth development programs. I'm very excited to be able to say to you that today we are coming to you live from Baltimore, where our staff is gathered for our first in person. Staff meeting slash retreat we call it Kitteh palooza. And it's the first time we've all been all together in person since 2019. So this is a big deal for us. Our staff are gathered in person but our panelists today our very special guests are joining us virtually from New York City from Los Angeles and from Washington, DC. And we also have virtual invited guests from all over the United States joining us today. So why have we gathered here today? On March 4 2023, we saw the passing of a legend. Judith human was a pioneer an advocate on a global stage and she's known as the mother of the disability rights movement. She was also a mentor to so many young activists who will carry her work forward. In the month since her death. I've been thinking a lot about duties, mentees wondering what their thoughts are about the state of the disability rights movement, what's next in disability rights, and how they plan to carry duties legacy forward. And I think this knowledge is important for all of us who are allied in making the world a more welcoming and accessible place for children. So I invited three of my friends who are close to Judy, to come join us at our staff retreat Kitteh Palooza and share their thoughts with us. So I first want to welcome our guests. We have Andy arias. Andy is a D I A experts, a national policy adviser and instructor at Georgetown University and an actor and producer working in TV and film in Hollywood and he wins the prize for the coolest background. welcome Andy. Next we have Diego Mariska Diego is the founder, CEO and chief disabled Officer of together International, the leading accelerator that supports disabled entrepreneurs by connecting them with the resources and access to capital they need to develop high growth, high impact startups. Many of us in the room have attended some of Diego's pitch competitions. Really, really cool events. Emily The Dow is a passionate disability rights activist and the author of demystifying disability, what to know what to say and how to be an ally. Emily is also a kids included together board member. She serves as the second vice president and also the chair of our education and The search committee. welcome Andy Diego and Emily, thank you for joining us. Why are there somebody? Yay. Okay. The first thing I want to do I'm sure all of us are familiar with Judy, humans work. I want to just give a brief bio. But I also want to encourage everyone to learn more about Judy's life by reading her memoir called being human. Judy was born in Brooklyn in 1947, and she contracted polio at age two. When she was excluded from kindergarten. The principal called her a fire hazard because she used a wheelchair. Her mother fought for her rights setting the stage for a life of act advocacy. Duties activism in the 1970s included attending and working at Campton Ed becoming the first wheelchair using teacher in New York State and organizing the famous 504 Sit in a 28 day protest in San Francisco that led to the enforcement of crucial disability rights legislation. Judy also played a significant role in crafting the Americans with Disabilities Act, which just celebrated its 33rd anniversary. She co founded the World Institute on Disability served in the Clinton administration and was the first special advisor on disability rights for the US State Department appointed by President Obama. Judy story was featured in the documentary crip camp, which received an Oscar nomination for Best Documentary. We're gonna learn a lot more about Judy's legacy from our three panelists today. So first question I'm going to ask all three of you to answer is how has Judy, humans work in advocating for disability rights inspired your own activism? Let's start with Andy, because of the cool background. Unmute yourself, Andy?
That's a very thoughtful and interesting question for me. When I first heard of Judy human, I just got off of a film role with Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts. And I knew nothing about the Independent Living Center movement, I knew nothing about disability rights for the larger audience. I knew my rights, I knew what I needed to fight for as an individual with a disability. But I didn't look beyond myself. And I saw a documentary called lives worth living. And I was struck by this woman named Judy human. And I said, Well, I got to do more with my life. And subsequently, that led to my first job at an independent living center. And really, she had been the motivation for many significant choices I've made in my professional career as an advocate, policy advisor, and all the other things I think she, she motivated me with her work, but also her, her realness, and the fact that she was so accessible to so many people. I just, I constantly ever, as a reminder, in my professional work, and in the back of my mind, like I have instead of What Would Jesus Do I have what would God do sometimes, in the back of my mind, I'm like, how God handle this situation? Because, you know, we all get in interesting situations that are extremely ableist. And interesting. And I will say how Judy react to that. So, yeah, she's a constant inspiration. Even today, more today. I would say that, the new beginning of my career.
Awesome. Thank you. That's that's exactly what we want to talk about today. So it's such a great way to kick us off. Thanks, Sandy. How about you, Diego. I know this is gonna be a hard one. Oh. Well,
I first I will say that I think Judy would would counter that question by saying, you know, it isn't. It isn't Judy's activism and it isn't up to disability, civil rights, right. It's, it's the collective effort of, of a whole community. And in fact, she was reluctant to write a memoir for many years because she often said, it isn't my story. It's the story of 1000s of disabled people coming together. Fighting for me, as I've reflected over the last couple of months, you know, on on Judy's legacy and my my own personal work, you know, when we think about 504, and the passage of the ADEA that was inherently at a revolution and entrepreneurship movement, people started to create something that wasn't there and and came together. You No, sorry, you and I have talked about how, you know, I'm reading Judy's book now I just finished it a couple of days ago, once again, and it was, it's so I knew this already, but to read it, again was so impressive to see, you know how Deaf people came together and started signing when when folks weren't able to communicate with the outside. The Black Panthers came together and supported the disability community during 504 sit in, even the security guards, you know, became accomplice in the movement. Right. And so it's important to recognize that her legacy was always one of collaboration and community building. And I think, you know, particularly around entrepreneurship, but I think it all the work that, that we do collaboration and community is really important. And I think even the relationships that we ourselves, as panelists have, you know, with each other is a reflection of that, right? Like, Andy was a former board member of together International, one of the first board members of together International, we use Emily's book as training for the coaches that we give in our program. So there's this constant community building that she she pioneered. And, and so that's the, that's the piece that I hope to continue to embody, as, as we move forward with our
work. Beautifully said, Thank you, Diego, Emily.
So I would say this is also going to be tough for me, but I'm gonna do my best to not be super emotional.
I think we make space for motion here, we're fine. Oh, I
appreciate that. Um, I've had, I've had plenty of chances to feel my feelings over the past several months. And I'm sure we all have, I think, when I consider Judy's legacy, the interesting thing for me is how much her legacy shaped both my life and also my mom's life, because my mom has the same disability that I do. And is, you know, maybe like a decade and a half or so younger than Judy was, and Judy's legacy was shaping our lives long before we knew or understood that that was actually a reality. We are not taught about disability history in school. And we were not made aware of the fact that it was happening as we were living. And it wasn't until, quite honestly after college that I learned to 2d was. And I think that that is a powerful testament to her as paradoxical as that may sound, because the work that she did was never about making a name for herself, it was very much about making sure that everybody could live the life that they deserved as a disabled person. And the fact that the legacy Judy left behind, is what has made it possible, probably, quite literally, for me to be having this conversation with you all today is exactly what I celebrate about her work. The fact that she changed the world. And so many people did not know it. And yet she kept going. And it wasn't until so much later in her life, that she really got so much of the credit that she deserves. And it wasn't until later in my life that I learned about Judy. And I think that that shifted so much for me and perspective, about beginning to understand that I come from a culture and a community, and that we have this shared identity. And it's not just that we all exist in this vacuum or that we exist in silos or in isolation. It's that we are really part of a group we are part of a group of people making a difference. And that was the legacy that Judy left is that she was always working her hardest to keep that community going. Beautiful,
beautiful. I'm going to stay with you Emily and ask you if you can share a specific instance when Judy's advocacy work has directly influence your actions or decisions as an activist
100% Great question. I think there's a lot of parallels As in my life, that I see, as I reflect on Judy's life, and I don't mean to make the comparison that I am in any way duty human, just that it's nice to be able to see yourself in someone. And I found myself in her in a lot of ways. She was a feisty, disabled Jewish New Yorker. And I'd like to fancy myself that too. I was originally going to be a high school English teacher. And Judy was also a teacher. You know, she's known for many things, including the fact that she fought a battle with the New York City Department of Education and one to become a teacher in the first place. And so she paved that pathway for me, but I ended up going in a completely opposite direction. And deciding that I wanted to not be a teacher, I wanted to be an activist. And I think that it was learning about Judy, that actually motivated that, because I realized that what Judy youth legacy has done is show that she teaches in much broader ways than just in the classroom. And that was what I wanted to do. I didn't really want to limit myself to having conversations in one specific space, I wanted to be able to connect with so many different people. And I wanted to learn from those people. I didn't just see myself as doing educating, I see it as a two way street. And I think that's very much how Judy saw it too. So much like, you know, Andy said, thinking, What would God do? I think that quite a bit. And that really had a huge impact on the path that I took. Because I realized that what I could do with the privileges that I have, as a white woman with a physical disability, who grew up with a supportive family, and in a certain socio economic status, right, I can take the fact that I exist at this nexus point of privilege, and marginalization, much like duty, and I can use that as a pathway to support other people to share their stories. So long story short, I now do a lot of work behind the scenes where I get to support people in writing their stories, and in amplifying their stories. And that makes me happier than anything. And Judy did that very often, she was more focused on everyone else's stories, and how those stories impacted other people and how she could connect those people. And that has been a huge influence on how I tried to do all of my activism work.
Thank you, Emily. I was always blown away by how she was able to, as this looming large figure, personally and repeatedly connect with so many people. I have regular conversations with Diego, and in every conversation, he was like I was talking to Judy last night. And it just blows my mind that someone of that, you know, position was also so intentional and direct about placing this legacy in each of you and nurturing it and supporting it. And I mean, that is that is something that, you know, all of us should think about being more intentional about the legacy they leave behind. So I think you said that beautifully. Emily, I think you are a reflection of that. How about you Andy, can you share a personal story or experience with Judy, that changed your perspective or strengthened your commitment to disability rights?
Yeah, you know, Judy, and I would argue a lot. But in the best way, we would have, I moved to DC. And one of the things that I did not like was that DC was one of the most accessible, inaccessible cities that I ever lived in. And I would be we would we would have these Friday night evenings, where I would be like, God, come on now. It's 30 to 30 years, past the ADEA. And I still can't get down the sidewalk. And what what's up, what can we do? Like how can we? And she would just, you know, first of all, she would put me in my place and tell me, you know, there's a bigger issue here. And what's the bigger issue and how, how does this reflect not only your experience, but the experience of others. And she, you know, I think a lot of times in the disability community and I'll speak for myself, because I always like to use I statements. Our world is so challenging sometimes, that it's hard to not have the I moments but I can't do This and I don't have access to that. There's barriers here for me. And she would always think of all the other people, and all the other things that connect to that and accessibility, whether it be education, whether it be privileged, whether it be access to other things. And she would say, are you doing this for you? Are you doing this for the bigger? Other? And then I would be like, well, we'll shoot today. Thank you for that reality. But she really taught me to look beyond myself, and be able to have those discussions with people that I do not agree with. Many people don't know this, but I met Judy, at a time when the big D was in charge of DC. And I say that because they can't say any other nice things. And so we met in a very tumultuous time in our government. And she would always tell me to look beyond myself, and work with people that thought differently than I did. Because that's where the compromised this shift, and the change would come through. So I I can't imagine making it through those dark times. Without Judy human being an incredible support to me, and having this Friday night chats. Yeah.
Great Friday night chats. I love it. Thank you, Andy, you talked about the Americans with Disabilities Act, we just celebrated the 33rd anniversary of the passage of the ADEA. I want to know what you see as the most important issues that are facing the disability community today, you talked about how Yes, 33 years later, it's still hard to get around. Emily, let's let's start with you. And then I'm gonna come back to you, Andy.
Okay, so when I answer this question, I always worry that what I say is going to make people think I'm just copping out here. But here's the reality, every issue is a disability issue. Because every issue impacts disabled people. So if I'm going to try to isolate one issue, that is the most important, that's simply not possible. Because that's discounting so many experiences, there are more than a billion disabled people around the world. And at least one in four adults in the US has some type of disability. And so it is not possible to take any issue in isolation. And yes, I can say, access to health care is the most important. But access to health care is very often, unfortunately, in our society connected to having access to employment, so that you have health care coverage, and having access to employment is connected to having access to education, and having access to all of these things is connected to having access to transportation to get you there. I mean, the list just goes on and on and on. And so I don't ever feel like I can isolate one specific issue that is the most important. And if I had to, I would say the issue that is most important is ensuring that disabled people actually have access to the world around them, because that is in and of itself an issue. And it is what precludes us from engaging in all areas of society when we don't have that access. So for me, it's not about any one system, but it's about recognizing how every single system interplays with one another, and we need to make sure that we are advocating for access for inclusion for actual meaningful, equitable opportunity for disabled people in every area of life.
Here here, yes, I'm seeing I'm seeing a lot of Yes, agreement with you, Emily, thank you. Yes. Andy
10% agree with everything that Emily said. And I would add that the ADEA needs to refresh needs a redo needs a 2.0 Ada for the inequities that people of color individuals who are have marginalized identities like LGBTQ Latinx, black indigenous, all the other rainbows of disability because they feel like the ADEA was written at a time I'm aware, it spoke to disability, but from a white lens. And I feel like some of the times that to me it doesn't hold as much bite as it should, when it comes to the intersectionality of individuals with disabilities, because if we look historically at disability, and how it's framed in other cultures, it's really different than what you would ADEA. And it's really different than what you would see, you know, in in a lot of our legislation when it comes to employment, and and other systems. So something that speaks to that helps address those issues of inequity. And intersectionality. I would love to see an ADA 2.0 that addressed marginalized communities more, and spoke to all the issues that Emily talked about, but wrapped it around the intersectionality. And in justices that people of color with disabilities faced. So that thing I would add, and Judy, and I love to talk about intersectionality, and how it played in with, with legislation and the ADEA and all the things. So
I'm very excited to hear you bring that up. It's a segue to something I did want to talk about. And I just love those two answers together. I think that's terrific. I did want to talk about how Judy's approach to intersectionality within the disability rights movement, considering all the factors you brought up, influenced your perspective and approach and I want to bring Diego back in because he's been too quiet for too long. So let's hear from Diego. And then Andy, I'm gonna come back to you.
Yes, yes, definitely have a lot to say there. Um, so is the question is the question the intersectionality. Question, or is there a question in between that, just want to make sure I'm following
along? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. How Judy's approach to intersectionality influence your approach?
Yeah. So when I saw this question on the prep document, I immediately wanted to jump into this question, because in this may not be easy for me to say, but Judy was actually, at least in my conversations, and I talked to her pretty frequently. A bit skeptical of intersectionality in fact, I remember, at least of the term intersectionality I don't think she was skeptical in any way of the concept of intersectionality. But, you know, I distinctly remember having a conversation and her saying, you know, don't repeat this, you know, out loud to anyone, but what is intersectionality and explain to me what, you know, what the concept needs that and it was hard for her to kind of wrap her, her, her the full understanding of what the word actually meant, right. But I love having those discussions with her because it showed how intentional she was about intersectional intersectional work and intergenerational work, and making sure that she understood what the perspective of younger generations were. And so she was, you know, she was intentionally intersectional without using the word intersectionality without necessarily knowing that she was preaching intersectionality. And so it's just a testament I think, to follow. We've all talked about it in some way or other, but she's very intentional about making sure that different voices were or that different generations were heard. And because she was so available, she was always willing to willing and able to learn from different perspectives. So I always when I see intersectionality and Judy human in the same sentence, I always smile because I think of that, that discussion, and I distinctly remember I was coming home and I was going, you know, into the elevator and I went into the lobby of my apartment building. And we spent about an hour talking about the meaning of analogies and me trying to get her to understand what the word actually meant. But I think about that with so much joy and
and care because it
represents just how fun Ricci was to learn from other perspective.
Perfect, thank you
said I agree with Diego and also, after she was done asking Diego, what does intersectionality mean? She would call me and be like, hey, so I just had a conversation with Diego, and I want your feedback on intersectionality. So Hmm, I feel like she, she really Judy was our, our mother in a lot of ways in this movement. But she was continually wanting to grow and learn from, from LGBTQ perspectives. Like we had so many perspectives, we have so many discussions about me being gay, and me being Latino and me being, you know, disabled, and what does that all mean? And even though she didn't use the term intersectionality, she'd be like, Andy, I wanna know. And one of the greatest things is, we would text all the time. I mean, I wouldn't get a phone call every day like Diego did. But I would get a text every three days, like, Hey, how's it going? What's going on, and she would always end her messages to me with a little rainbow and a little unicorn. So she sort of really, like, cemented my, my delusion or reality of myself periculum unit coordinates. And she would be like, I love that. And let's talk about that. What does that mean? So she, even though she didn't use the term intersectionality, she had embraced it fully, all the people around her, and she really wanted to, to know what it meant to bring people in. She, her ego was like, so not in that space, where she was like, I am duty human, and I know these things, she would say, oh, talk to that person, or talk to this person, or bring this person in to discuss these things. And she would be an advocate for those people that she didn't represent, right. And she acknowledged that, but she would bring those people in to discuss terms like intersectionality. And I, I in turn, now, when I work on the larger, I bring people in more than I speak for me, because I know that my experience, and my, my level of certain privileges now is different than the experiences of, of people that that come after me. So I want to bring them in to discuss those challenges and their lives, rather than hear from me. And she taught me that, because she never had an ego about like, I'm Judy human, and I must discuss this. She'd be like, talk to Diego, talk to Emily, talk to all these different people before she would say, talk to me first, you know, and that was that was such a gift.
That's pretty amazing. I think, also to keep that humility, especially when the world is propping you up, up, up up to be able to keep stay humble like that, and to always be a learner. And always understand that the movement is evolving and younger generations are coming up, and how do we continue to bring new and more voices in. I mean, that's really something special. So thank you guys for both giving such a good voice to that. And, and you're also kind of leading to where I wanted to go, which we kind of started at the beginning. But you know, duty is this American hero, a national treasure. And it's easy for people like that to become symbolic and only symbols. And for us to like lose the person in their full humanity. And Judy was also a pretty big character. And so I wondered what you could share what you wanted to share about Judy, the person from the three of you who are in such close touch with her and knew her so well as a person. What was she like, as a person? What was she like, as a woman as a friend? You feel like she was a second mother to you. I know Diego feels that way. And he said that. So I would love to hear some of those kind of personal reflections. Diego, do you want to start? I know it's hard. Take a breath.
Yes. Yes. So where do I start? I mean, I think I've said it before multiple times. For me coming to DC without proper family and without, you know, knowing anybody, Judy and her family, really in my family. We would we would we would talk almost every day. And if I didn't call her she would call me you'd be like, Why don't you call what's going on? So yeah, it's I think the best way to that I have to describe Judy is one of the last texts I got her was I met sibling hospital organism Washington Hospital. How was Cuba you leave tomorrow right? Now it's gonna last text me. I I think really funny about that text because even though she was in the hospital, even the formulas the hospital requested and always was, you know, how are you? And how are things going with you? We've all talked about in different ways. But I think that that was such a characteristic of duty to always think about others first. And the other the other really interesting thing I think about my relationship with her specifically is, we would have really, really strong disagreements, particularly around entrepreneurship and this stability. And in fact, she would often call Conchita another friend of ours, and Andy, you'd be lying to anything. Yeah, you need to get the job. What are you doing with this one, she had strong opinions about the work that we were doing, I think some of the mentally we read all of that on, on the importance of the working we were trying to do in terms of, you know, seeing disability as a competitive advantage and recognizing disability pride. But I think that me coming in from Mexico coming in from an entrepreneurship background, and a family of entrepreneurs was very different from her own upbringing, and from her own way of thinking. And so I think it was very peculiar, right, that we would have these heated debate, I remember thinking, Oh, my God, you know, these are like, heavy debates, I don't know if I can say, any more criticism from the one and only dirty human right. But at the end of every phone call, we would say, you know, love you Love you to each other, in a very sort of Mr. Maternal way. So I always think of that, you know, really, I think it left a mark in me, like you can have really, really strong disagreements with people about, and there were discussions, there were debates of different perspectives of doing things. And still love and appreciate the other person and the other person's point of views and perspectives. So on the other thing, I think what's unique, I've always been a really positive person. And I've always shared, you know, she would ask me, how was my day, and I would always say something along the way. Good, amazing planning, just because, you know, that was such a big part of, of who I am and how I live my life. And she gave a speech at the 10 year anniversary of together where she that was the first time she publicly spoke. And sort of in support of our work and what I what we were doing. And one of the things that she talked about in her speech was font, she admire the fact that I always said that the day was amazing and great. And so again, it goes back to this always wanting to learn from each other, regardless of where she was in the movement compared to other people.
Yeah, Diego, another thing that makes me think of is that because we've talked a lot about her kind of coaching or critiquing you and your work over the years, and founded at least one nonprofit, I think, and I think she knew how hard it was, I think she knew that you were choosing a road for yourself. That was very difficult. And I think she's she's paved that path before. And so all those discussions we have about, you know, all the things boards and fundraising and all the things she's she's done that. So I do think that played into the conversation to have that experience. I know that she you know, she did get to see a lot of what you're currently doing, but it's just, you're growing by leaps and bounds. I know she'd be so proud of you. So thank you. You're welcome. Emily, did you want to share anything about Judy as a person? Yes. As another staff in New Yorker,
she was very much like having another Jewish grandma. And while Diego was talking, so I scrolled in my text messages with duty. Back in 2021, I broke my leg and posted about it on social media and Judy saw it and she immediately like, tried to get in touch with me. But I was in the hospital. So she was like, give me your mom's number. So then she starts calling my mom. And then she got the two of us like confused in her phone. So sometimes she would like text my mom and think she was texting me or text me. I think she was texting my mom. So this leak went on for a long time. So in February 2022 She texted my mom and my mom was Like you're texting Ellen, I think you want to text Emily, who then she texted me. And she was like, Is this your number? I'm watching ice skating. And I thought maybe you were also watching ice skating because it was the Olympic. And I was like, Yes, this is my cell phone. And she was like, Do you watch ice skating? Or? No? I do. I've watched a lot of it with my boyfriend. But we haven't been watching today. And oh, God, I can't even read it. Okay, so she goes, literally ignores all of that goes, okay. None of my business. Well, maybe a little bit of my business. When are you getting engaged? I was like, was this is your plan to ask me about getting engaged? Oh, my God. So she she did this multiple times. She every conversation we had would end with like, When are you getting engaged? And it was like, I really am not getting and. And the funny thing is, I Well, I don't know if it's funny, funny, sad. I ended up breaking up with this guy. And now I'm with someone who is fantastic and wonderful, but never got to meet Judy. Judy did not know that he existed, because I met him only shortly before she passed away. But now I kind of always tell myself like, you know, I can I can answer that question. Like, Judy, I'm gonna get engaged soon. Like, I have an answer for you now, you know, part of me like wants to send a text to her number and just be like, just that, you know? It's gonna happen. But um, yeah, so she she was like a total douche grandmother. I mean, I had like, the utmost love for her. And the way she just wanted to be all up in your business at all times. Yeah, it was because it was so well meaning. And even my mom was just like, oh, did Judy ask you and you're getting engaged? Like, it just became a running joke. So yeah, as much as you know, we tend to look at her because like, larger than life figures, she was really just this person who wanted to invade as much of your business as possible. My favorite thing about her?
Thank you, Emily. That's beautiful. Andy, I'm going to ask you a specific question, because I want you to put your producer hat on for a minute.
Okay, I wanted to add to this lead, but go ahead.
I'm gonna let you and then I'm gonna question
five seconds of this as most of the conversations that I had with Judy, for the first year were about Diego, and his is misguided attempt to open his nonprofit. Get him a job. But the other part of our conversations were Do you have a boyfriend yet? Why don't you have a boyfriend yet? Why? What about Diego? And it was like, No, thank you. I have not heard this yet. No, no, no. This is the this is the tea that Judy would ask me. And I would be like you and I are friends, Judy. It would be like Well, yeah. Julie, but this is the love she had for me as an individual and the love she had for like the people in her life. She
went you know, that's what I'm hearing from all of this is a deep deep love.
Yeah, she did. She dig deep to find out what was going on. And the last thing she was like, empty your voicemail. Like empty your voice. thing she said to me, in every conversation every text, please enter
your voicemail. So you need to enter your voicemail, Andy?
No, it's been empty since she is attributed. Chi Chi pas. So yeah.
Well, I'm learning a lot of wonderful things today. maybe most importantly, the Judy tried to make a love connection between you and Diego. I have no idea.
I didn't realize that. But I'll just bio.
Really even I knew this. You knew that. Oh, yeah. Just because of like various conversations. Yeah, man.
Well, I'm so glad we're having this convening so I can learn these kinds of things. So thanks for that. Okay, Andy, ready to be a producer? Yes. Okay. Um, I don't know. I run this on the interwebs. And I don't know if it's true, but I read that Judy's memoir being human is being adapted for the screen. So yeah, Andy, I don't know if you know the intel on that. But since you're in the entertainment industry, I wanted to know what the producers and writers could do to make sure that film is really worthy of Judy.
I think casting authentically is so important. I know the lead is casted authentically and who's going to play the Leanne, I don't want to spill the tea on I read that it's online, it's really struggling. Good. So I didn't want to, I don't want to spill too much tea, because everyone signs MBAs in the industry. And I didn't want to share that. And under any NDA, there you go. But I will say that all the other pieces of the film need to have authentic representation, not only behind the camera, in the marketing, in the acting in the producing in the directing all of it, because they think that that's how Judy's legacy can be really amplified authentically. So many times in the disability world, we get one disabled character, typically white character, and, and their stories told from a non disabled person talking about disability. And I think in order to honor Judy human, and her legacy, and all of us moving forward, like 90% of the crew need to have disabilities in some way visible, this invisible, like that would be such a legacy, such an honor to have the entire crew or 90% of the crew have a disability. And it would really shake up Hollywood to say, like, we can't do this anymore. We can't tell stories about disabled people, and don't have the writers in the room, none of the directors in the room, none of the producers in the room, and try to make up our own story based on a book, or based on what we heard, right? Because they'll bring us on as consultants, but consultants don't get paid as long term producers or directors and they don't get back in deals. You know, once things make profits, they get, you know, one and DUNS. And we need to go beyond that in the entertainment industry. We need to go beyond consulting, and to the creating, and to the moving the needle and to having producers and directors and writers in the room with significant disabilities telling their own stories. And that would be such a beautiful legacy for Judy, to have her story told and written and starring and directed and produced by people with disabilities.
Incredible, that would be so incredible. What an incredible opportunity that would be to do you know, is this movie really happening? Is this a thing?
I think it's happening. Oh, well, what else is like I think it's it's moving. But things in Hollywood move very slowly. And now with this right now. We don't know what will happen in the near future with writers, producers, directors, and actors. So I know everything for that's on hold. But I think that it's it's a continually moving process. And what I don't want to happen is I don't want it to become an indie darling film, I would much rather it become a major studio production, where not just it's a niche. But it gets to all the award shows, and all the all the things that need to get recognized by the larger public, because I think that that would be such a gift for us and for Judy.
Yeah, incredible. I'll be looking for it. Okay, if we are looking to the future. So we're talking about legacy, and we're talking about carrying a legacy into the future. How do you see Judy's legacy influencing the next generation of disability rights activism? Emily, I'm gonna go to you.
So I think that the advantage that a lot of the next generation has that I'm not sure we had is that Judy is becoming common knowledge, Judy's life is becoming much more common knowledge. And that, to me, is powerful in and of itself. And I think that a lot of the reason that the next generation will be so impacted is because of the media that has been created that has been spread about not just the work that God has done, but the communities in which God operated and all of the other incredible people who you know, sharing this legacy with her, you know, when I was little, I mean, I didn't have the ability to just go on social media and find out Love this information. And, you know, my mother often says this as well she grew up not even very far from the crib cam that Judy went to, did not even know it existed, because it's not as though there was some kind of network that she was able to tap into, in order to find out that this was happening practically in her backyard. And so I think that the way that Judy's legacy is going to influence future generations is through the power of storytelling, because we are so much more connected than we ever were. And we have the ability to amplify the story. There's so many people, Judy included. And I think that being able to have ready access to stories like duties is what is going to shift dynamics in how we advocate in how we make changes, because we have proof that it is possible in the work that happened at the 504 Siddons and the Capitol Crawl and events like that, right? We know about these now. And so when I think about the way that her legacy is going to impact people, it's not just because of who she was as a person. But the fact that we have documented versions of these stories that are going to impact people to feel like they can also take a stand and make a change.
Thank you, Emily. Andy, did you want to answer that one?
Yeah, I'll just really quick, I think Judy forced us to come together. Because, you know, yes, we are a community. But sometimes don't throw tomatoes as well. I'm glad I'm not in Baltimore. Sometimes the disability community and the leaders of the community, other than JD, were incredibly isolating. And there was sort of like a hierarchy of disability privilege. And you could only sit in the room if you were this person or that person. And Judy didn't care, Judy was like, bring everybody in. I want to hear from everyone. And I want to learn from everyone. And now that she has a felt this diff going on, I'm gonna try not to get a no Billy cookie. But when when we were there in the room, there were so many beautiful leaders, there were so many powerful people. And it was sort of like, she was passing her energy throughout that room, saying, now you have to do this. Every single person has to pick up where I left off, and move the needle because for a long time, we would do our own work, we would get our own credit and we would say look, let's lose this person or that person. But now we are forced to, to create to move her legacy forward in synergy, and we have to work together. It's like she didn't give us a choice. She said, uh, you know, she was so bigger than life in a lot of ways that she now forces us to collaborate work together and it's it's happening in my life. I know what's happening in Diego's I pretty sure it's happening in Emily's to that we are sort of synergistically coming together to carry it forward, because not any one person can carry that Judaism. Forward. And now we are doing it through her legacy. So, yeah, I'm just trying not to cry. So I'm gonna pass it on to the egg. Oh,
we like that you have coin now coined the term Judaism.
Yeah, I know. Right? Any different way? Right. It's
gray on? Yeah. Jewish grandma. Okay, well, I'm going to kind of wrap that in and we can start with Diego. But I want I want to hear how you each plan to continue Judy's legacy and your own activism and work. And then once we do that, then I'm going to ask you where people can find you online or in the world so that everyone who's listening to this can now kind of pay attention to the work that you're doing. So Diego, why don't you start us off?
Oh, god, okay. So similar to Mandy, you know, I'm starting to see what he's referring to happening already. Right, in that. You know, Judy was mine to go person for all disability related thing. It's an MRI You would talk to me very frequently, if not every day. And so now I find myself having to reach out to other advocates covering to get their perspectives, because Judy is no longer around. And so inherently, you know, what Judy wanted is happening, whether, whether we wanted it or not, right, it's happening. And I think she would be very pleased to see that. Um, and in terms of how we would continue her legacy, I mean, I touched upon it in the beginning a little bit in that, you know, her, even though I don't think she, and depending on the spaces, but she didn't often see herself as an entrepreneur, right. But she really was, and the disability movement was, in essence, a revolution. And that's progressive movement. And so, and this whole idea of being proud of your disability, and, and being unapologetically disable, is the essence of what we're trying to do with with together. So I think her her legacy will continue through that mission. Right. And we're actually thinking about kind of this is behind the scenes that we stopped for formalize some details, but we're thinking about we do it. Last year, I was gonna say we do an annual celebration of entrepreneurs and, and disability, but we just started last year. So I don't know if you can call that an annual, second annual, second annual, but we're thinking about doing an AI award, and calling it the human and innovation, Innovation and Entrepreneurship Award in honor of doing so. So that's a way that that her legacy will live on through through the work that we're doing. But on a personal note, you know, and I was reflecting on this a couple days ago. I think, all of us who knew, Judy, hang on a minute, I certainly feel like with myself, I feel an immense amount of pressure. But I think a good pressure in the sense of I mean, we have the privilege of knowing an icon, right and not knowing not just knowing an icon, but also knowing the human behind the icon, right. And so this idea of working really hard of collaborating with other people staying humble, those are lessons that will stay with us, you know, for many, many decades to come. And I think I would like to think that in some ways, God lives in all of us, then our actions will continue to reflect that.
I love that. And I think they do I think they already live in all of you. Let's see, Andy, you're unmuted. You want to go next?
Yeah, just really quickly, I'll say that. I know that Judy's duties, legacy will live on in all my policy work. All my advocacy work, that's a given. But I'm intentionally because all the film work that I do has an intersection off diversity lens. I did a film with Diego called the unicorn closet. You guys check it out. See there, I gotta check. Things, all the things that Judy sort of taught me and brought to me. It's, you know, I want to take that into my homework. I want to, like give a little Judy spice to every film that I do. You know, a little sass, a little wink to her and her thing because I really think Judy, though, one of the last things Judy said to me. Super funny. She was like, Andy, I want to be a model. Do you think I could be a model for a senior company like, even a, you know, disability company? I was like, Judy, you're beautiful. You have the most beautiful smile I've seen on a person. And I give her my agency's number and I said, give them a call. They would flip their minds that they got a call from Judy human and said I would want to be a model for one of your companies. So I think she wanted to be in the entertainment industry a little bit. And I'm gonna carry that forward by by giving a little Judi Enos to all my films.
I like that and she was asking you that because you do some modeling, right? I do. Yeah. Because you were Yeah, she came to you. Yeah, that's great. That's so fun. Emily
I'll keep it short. And just say that I hope I can Amelie duties, generosity of spirit and connecting people. I get a lot of people reaching out to me on a daily basis who have Questions who want to connect to want to have a coffee chat. And in the day to day grind, they can sometimes find myself feeling like a, you know, like another meeting to pick my brain or whatever. But then I have to remind myself that, Judy was that for so many people, and people, I take those meetings now. When I can, I try to honor my capacity to to, you know, do that. But if I can connect with somebody, I'm gonna do it because I want to support them. I want to support their career. I want to know how I can help them I want to know how I can amplify their story. And that was constantly what Judy did. So that's what I'm trying to do now.
Excellent. Thank you all. Okay, just quick round of where can people find you? Handles whatever you want to give. Um, before we wrap up, so Andy, want to start
Andy's wills with a Z on on Insta? I am phasing out the Twitter and the X. Yeah. No. Andy's wheels with the Z on Instagram.
He is at the end of wheels. Yes. And he's wheels on Insta. How about you Diego.
Vu Mariscal on LinkedIn and together international together with the number two everywhere else
together International and Diego on LinkedIn. Okay and Emily,
I'm just add Emily hola Tao pretty much everywhere. I am also phasing out Twitter. But Instagram and LinkedIn are big ones for me.
So you can have a newsletter? Oh, yeah, I
do have a newsletter. If you go to Emily liddell.com. That's like such a weird thing to say. But then at the bottom, there's like a sign up for the newsletter. And I send it out once a month. It's called Words day we'll buy
great highly, highly recommend signing up for Emily's newsletter and following all three of these fabulous people. I want to thank you all I know that was personal. It was emotional. I want to thank you so much for sharing your stories with us trusting your stories with us your perspectives, and for offering us this really lovely peek at your relationship with Judy. I think it helps us all understand her legacy better. And I think it will all help help us all be the best allies, we can be in this ongoing struggle for making the world a more accessible place. And so I could just not thank you enough for your time today. And it was just such an honor and a delight to spend this hour with you. Thank you all so much.
