And people are coming back. And I'm just going to restate the introduction here real quick because I did not have the recording on when I started talking when we all came into the room. So for the for Josh who does our podcast, let me just restate the opening one more time. Here we are another learning rebels Coffee Chat on this glorious Friday we where we are talking about unleashing our creativity. We just spent some time in a breakout room where we were getting to know each other a little bit more and we're playing get to know you, bingo a little bit of a creative way to break open the brain and kind of unleash some of our creative brain cells. And I look forward to seeing what everybody has come up with. I know in the room that I visited, everybody was like, very competitive. We had we had some we had some competitiveness here. So I would love that. See, okay, how many if you got to bingo in your room, first off, I want to know about it. So be sure and share that in the chat. But also send your name and your mailing address to add in the direct messages. So we can so we can gather that up and I look forward to sending some books out out of our grab our book grab bag. And so let's see here. Would it be glad Thank you, Katrina for putting all of the James Bonds in the chat. Nice, nice. Got it been going round three. Thomas. Excellent.
We're talking about creativity. Shannon, is it getting a bingo as an individual or getting a bingo as a team?
Oh, well, in this case is kind of have to be as an individual because as a team, it's going to be difficult to share the book. I guess you're part of part of a book to you and other part of the book you but I love that it's a team effort.
Yeah, 14 being was nice.
Yes. And okay, so what is it? And you remember George? Well, yes, they remember George, for George. Now, what was the interesting thing that you guys discovered about each other? Who would like to come off mic and share something that you found really interesting about someone in your group?
Aside from our love for Idris Elba. Yes, I know. There's a lot of love for Idris Elba right now. Um, what did you guys learn about each other? I know that through this process, there must have been some discussion. So what was interesting to you? I'll share you sure Erica?
I um, so I there's definitely individuals who I, you know, can recall who've been here multiple times, like me maybe even more times than me. And I think Amy is one of the individuals who like I just constantly remember seeing Amy's name, but I'm not necessarily, you know, aware of Amy obviously, as a person, because we don't always get to hear each other depending on what we're talking about. And I learned that kini AMI is extremely competitive. And I that's just something you wouldn't know unless you have an environment that helps to kind of bubble up some of those things about us. So that I thought that was very cute, because as soon as we got in, Amy was just like, let's go. I got this. I got this. I got this. She just started us off and it was just a really great way to get it rolling. So that was awesome.
So we need to do a scavenger hunt and set Amy loose, and it says Amy is efficient.
So Amy, there you go.
Your Hey, it was fun. I wanted the price. A good book is always good to have. That's right. That's right. And Jennifer says Cindy in our group had As a YouTube channel, so Cindy, Cindy Mendez, do you have a YouTube channel?
I do. i It's a podcast that we put on YouTube, for women in the workplace called Let me interrupt. [https://www.youtube.com/@LetMeInterruptPodcast] But I also learned during our group that we had two Sundays, and we were both first time attendees. So that was nice.
That is nice. That is nice. So we've got the numbers we've got, you know, comfort in numbers there. I love it. And I love the title of the podcast, too, we are going to have to check it out. So everybody, if you have a link to it, go ahead and put it into the chat. And I'm sure that others will love to check it out. So now let me ask you when it comes to unleashing creativity within yourself and also within your organization, how can exercises like what we just did help. And so thinking outside of your standard icebreaker type mode, what are some of the attributes of what we just did that can be transferable when we think about organizational culture and using creativity within an organization?
I think a lot of times creativity is other people with similarities and differences coming together and collaborating. So taking the time to get to know people helps you understand how you can better connect with someone and work together. To unleash that creativity, I might think of something that's a good idea, you might think of something that's a good idea. But when we put it together, we're able to brainstorm something even better.
Right? Yeah. Because once we start to get to know each other a little bit. It's hard to go up to a stranger. and think, Oh, well, what are your creative thoughts. And so as an organization, sometimes we become so siloed, that it's hard, and it doesn't feel as safe to be able to put those thoughts out there, when you don't know each other. And when you're not familiar with each other's work, Katrina.
I found it interesting, too, that in our group, we as we had begun to match up some of our common things, we we became more comfortable with challenging events like, What is Christmas shopping? Is that a list that Jen had? Or is that actually purchasing something? And if you purchased it ahead of time, but it was kind of for Halloween? Does that matter? So I think that you step into a place where you challenge and then as as Jessica said, you begin to build on each other's ideas, but you, you have to have that initial connection to make it happen.
Some sort of common thread, right, I love that, Katie.
I think Jennifer sorry, might have put her hand up first, and then I can go. Okay.
You could have gone first Katie, I was just gonna say I think that I work with a lot of finance folks. And some are creative, but a lot of them seem to have limiting beliefs that they can't possibly be, you know, creative, because they're analytical, you know, and they pride themselves on that. So it's always interesting because we at where I work, we're always talking about innovation and moving forward. And, and they seem to like block on creativity, and so they can't get to innovation. So I'm really getting a lot out of this particular session to understand how else we can how else we can do that. And I try to show them in super little snippets and make it about me, and I say, this is how I work and hopefully inspire them to do it. But it's always an interesting thing on how do you approach it, and how do you get others to tap into that creativity?
I love that.
Excuse me. I love that. And that goes exactly with what Thomas wrote in the chat, which is everyone has a different version of what creativity means to them. And we've had these conversations in the past, about, you know, one person's creativity may be somebody else's boring day. You know, so maybe the accountant has figured out a new way, you know, to do XYZ and for them, that's creative. For me, that's like, what, you know, so everybody's got that different idea. So I'll go back over to you, Katie, and thank you for generously bouncing that back off to Jennifer.
Of course. Yeah, I mean, that's something that we face in our industry as well. Sometimes we as being a government contractor working with a lot of people who are very engineering focused, do you think that sometimes that can, it does lead to some innovation, but I think I like that example of some people can have limiting beliefs about what they see as creativity. And I love what you said, too, about that safety piece and how that ties into the exercise that we did. I'm a huge proponent of psychological safety, I think it's absolutely a precursor for innovation, and that you need to be able to have trust with each other before you can really be able to continue to bring up new ideas bring creativity to have have that safety to fail, you know, another thing to be questioned or to bring up a new idea. So I think definitely crossed with a big part of that to be able to have creativity.
Yeah, absolutely. And if we go back into our coffee chat archives, we had a wonderful conversation about psychological safety a few months back, you know, and it really is about helping people see their creativity as part of their own unique DNA, you know, in its, how then can we bubble that up? And I'm seeing in the chat, which is really great. Thank you, everybody, for putting your ideas in the chat. Because you guys do get this chat transcript, by the way. Design thinking, you know, the IDEO style, and that's really great. I went to a session, actually with Myron. Myron, by the way, he's doing our part two for learning analytics, generative AI edition, part two.
Excuse me, I'm fighting this bug, biting it fight. And our next Coffee Chat, by the way, is going to be about creative problem solving. And we're going to talk about design thinking and all those other good things on our next coffee chat here in two weeks. So you can bookmark that we're all of this is going to go hand in hand. And I love what what's going on here with? Yeah, research supports drawing individually helps spur creative thinking. And that was something that was really brought forward with our Learn something new with Rachel Burnham, which was a few months back, and really understanding who you are from a creative perspective. And then how, how can we help people feel safe to share their creative thoughts? How can we encourage those creative thoughts? And I think this is where I'd like the conversation to go now is how can we help people realize that you might be that accountant? You might be that IT guy, but you have creative thoughts and abilities. And those creative thoughts and abilities have an important place in every organization. So what is our role? How can we help nurture that?
Those of you who are new know that I have an infinite amount of patience waiting for somebody to answer and got his hand raised and so does I'm sorry. Yes. Go ahead, Ted.
Hey, yeah, um, one of the ideas I really loved. We have masterclass at work and Sara Blakely, who founded Spanx. Every time she comes into a, like quarterly meeting, she has a big oops. So it's like, what was like a huge mistake someone weighed and what did everyone learn from it, because it creates this, like really exciting, like, there's a mistake, we learned from it, and like people are striving so it like, supports, like those creative risks that a lot of people are afraid to take.
I love that, especially when leadership puts themselves out there. Right? And then you feel safe to say, Oh, this is what I did to but most importantly, what we're learning from it, you know, is that part of the conversation to Ted? Yeah, that's a
huge part of it. So like, yeah, not just like, this is a big failure, but like, what do we learn from it? How did it drive us forward? And like, you know, you know, failures aren't all bad, basically. So just like, helping people feel safe to push themselves a little bit.
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. What a great idea. Wendy
was wondering and knowing there's so many creative people out there, this probably already exists, but the first thing that occurred to me when you said that was is there a Maslow's hierarchy of needs for creativity, like I feel like like the first level is everybody needs to feel safe and respected and you know, like, oh, like, you know, like, you need food and water and that kind of thing. You know, you know, is there Something like that for creativity. Because I know,
some I think that's pretty creative.
You got to have something, you know, you know, like, I'm not, there are some jobs where I, you know, I don't think I would have ever offered one idea of creativity just because I didn't feel, you know, whatever, you know, whatever the reasons were, and then there's been other ones where I'm like, I will give you more probably more than you want, you know. And obviously, there are differences between those two that made that happen. So more maybe more of a question than idea? Well, I
love it. And I'm sure that there are articles, I know that there are articles out there about, you know, what are some of the foundational needs for underpinning the creative environment. But I'd love to see that in a graphic. I'm sure that's out there somewhere, you know, so now you got me thinking about it, and I'm gonna have to hit the, you know, YouTube machine, see what see what it shares with me. But I think I think you're right. And I think what it happens here is that it leads to the question of what if you have an organization that is kind of stodgy? You know, that is not set up for not necessarily not supporting creative thinking, but just that it's not in its culture. Right. So it's not a matter of if you work for an organization that really discourages creative thinking, well, then, you know, that's what LinkedIn is for. But I think for the most part, organizations, it's not as though that it comes from a bad place. It's just that, you know, we're lawyers, or we're an IT firm, you know, so creative thinking might not necessarily be something that is upfront for them. So how can we continue then to what creativity up front? So Katrina?
So kind of going back to the question about the hierarchy, Dr. Epstein, who are Epstein who has a really unfortunate name, but he has done the most research that I've ever found on creativity. And so I'm gonna put a link to his has his quiz that you can take, it's a little old and looks a little dated. But he divides, he defines four habits that we can do that, that creative people do. And he based it on research is, he's a phenomenal researcher. And, and I think these are the four things that we could really foster in our organizations. I'm kind of obsessed with it. That's why I'm sharing it like this is this is one of my favorite topics.
I love it.
I love it.
And that is this month's theme within the community, too. It's all about creativity and creative thinking within the learning rebels community. So anything that you can share? Fabulous. Let's see here. All right, my creativity skills, awesome. Or have you offered a creative idea that was immediately shot down? Right? That's very true.
And I was enemy. And maybe let me set the stage a little bit further is I remember, many, many moons ago, I was in a meeting. And very various CEO. And I'm sitting there with all the other senior leaders, and he had asked a question about how can we improve sales? And, you know, our marketing efforts, etc. And somebody came up with an idea. And he was like, No, that's, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. And he said it, you know, kind of like that just the way that I did. So he was like, half joke half serious. But then he wonders why people don't contribute. Right? Because they're afraid that if they say something that he's not going to like, he's just going to brush it off. So why saying anything anyway? Right. And that's not something that you do on purpose. I had to take him aside afterwards and go, Oh, maybe not do that in the future? And he's like, oh, people don't allow I am. No, that doesn't count. That doesn't count. You know. So I think part of it is realizing language that we use, the actions that we take, the way we hold ourselves, you know, to encourage that back and forth. Let's see. Jessica.
Can I ask a question it was from kind of bridging off of Katie's comment in there about trust and belonging? What best practices can you all share if I wanted to create a cohort of learners that you know with with a really flexible format, but how can I help them or create sort of a template for them to very quickly create a sense of belonging within their small group. So that those discussions can be more vulnerable, more creative, more authentic?
What do you guys think?
And I'm not asking for a friend, I'm asking very much for myself for a current project,
much tag asking for a friend. So how can we begin to tear down some of those walls? I think activities like we did at the beginning here certainly help, you know, and you can think of a different way to phrase that if activities is not the thing, you know, that your people like.
It could be
you know, I had wrote something this is Tom, I had, we did something like after lunch, we're trying to do something after our this is when we had like meetings. And we'd always try and find some kind of like an icebreaker, instead of being in the morning, we would do it in the afternoon as a group, and you know, like, your comment about the CEO, or somebody saying that they're not going to participate? Well, everyone in the group had to participate, managers, VPS, whoever happened to be in the meetings, but the point was, is that you would create some kind of an exercise, anything from asking questions, to balloon games, to the squish ball, toss, things to get him going. And they all had to participate, we made up differently, you know, it played different twists to it. For example, one of the things was, you had to write on a card during the morning, and you'd have to put down three things, two of them were lies, and one is the truth. And then people would have to guess who that person is. And I would be the facilitator. And I'd hold the card. So I knew and it was so much fun to get people trying to guess who who's the person who did this, who's the person who did that, and even some of the lies they would make were, are enjoyable. And that kind of broke down some of those barriers. And, and again, we I also had the same thing with the similar upper management lawn, I'm not going to do that. And you told no, you know, if you're a team member, then you're a team member, I don't care, you know, you're the janitor, or the CEO type of thing, you know, you're in it. And so we found that to be just such a huge, because people would walk away from that going, I never knew that I never knew about you, I didn't know, you were a singer, you're in a rock band, you're you know, those kinds of things come out of it. And it just just opens up such a much more of a relaxed atmosphere for the rest of the day, too. So it's amazing how much more you get done in the afternoon than we did in the morning. So I suppose one of my thoughts
here for that. Yes, absolutely. And I agree with your premise here, the premise is to build connections. I'll give an example. For myself a long time ago, and this is before we had like smartphones that do everything that they do now. But I think the application is still really good is the breakout. We used to take Polaroids of everybody. And so we took Polaroids of all of the in this case was the leadership development class. So we took Polaroids of everybody, we put them all on the board. And then they each wrote an interesting factoid about themselves. And then we put it into a hat. And then the job was to see if we could match the person with the fact by the time our class was over. You know, and so why couldn't we do that? Now, I mean, with with departments with senior leadership, if your organization is small enough, maybe within your the entirety of your organization, and you can do this virtually too, right? So you could put their pictures on a mentee board or on a mural board, and you can have something that lives and they can add the factoids that way. So you could do that live as well as Memorex, I guess. And make that happen, because I agree with you, Tom. It's about if I can just find that one little connection piece like you guys did when we came into this room today, if we can find that one little connection piece. So some of you now know that I spend way too much time on James Bond trivia. So now now you guys all know that about me. So So now we know one additional thing about somebody and it makes it that much easier to have those creative conversations or actions Oh, I liked that Katrina, I see in the chat virtually you could change your name to something you're proud of a favorite thing you do, or something along those lines. Yeah, you could. Like everybody changed their name to your favorite color, you know, or your favorite flower or something. And then you can see who has what in common. I love that idea. From pottery, you can just change your name to Sean Connery. That's awesome. All right. So so there you go. So there's an idea with what else? What else can we do here? So when you think about different techniques, it's easy for us to think I'm going to refocus us here. Such as going nuts, okay. On, it's easy to think icebreakers for meetings. Let's try to expand that out. So the example that Thomas just gave, that I just gave easily, I think is transferable to your organization where this could be an organizational activity. So now what else can we do to help our organizations become closer, and subsequently, then more open to creative and innovative thought? Famine, huh? Yes,
I don't have a raise hand icon for some reason. So my Zoom is being weird. That's, um, you know, I'm thinking about this. And I'm processing through, like, how has this happened. And with me being over at the with at USC right now, one of the things that USC did that has nothing to do with creativity, but again, this is like, I think how creativity can be spawned from things that are seemingly not connected. So I think it reminds us too, about like, where are there other places and spaces to put yourself so the university has done a lot of work on trying to address issues, they came up with a culture journey, and they have the 60 unifying values and doing so the University created what was called what's called a culture network. The people who then are the advisory committee, if you will, the culture network then puts on like some events, some are virtual, and some are in person. Due to me attending a personal culture network event, I connected with an individual who was in the Department of Public Safety, which ironically, then ended up helping me out with a project that I was working on. For the gist project that I was working on. And in being able to work together again, thinking, you know, broadening our perspective, creativity, he his ability of allowing me to grab access to data that I needed to, to be able to make something accessible, helped the creative process, and even in talking to him, he was like, wow, you know, DPS have been thought of those particular issues, I want to take that up to, you know, in our chain of command, and I want to let them know what you're sharing with me as far as like how a map is being presented to show a border of what we patrol. And so that was even him being able to be creative and thinking differently, and how they present their information. So here's this community that was put, you know, put together by the university, and then people from different groups in different parts of the community ended up finding a place where they had an opportunity to connect, and then we were able to talk through things and learn from one another. So I'm wondering, like, if companies have those E or G's, you know, or if there's an opportunity for you to look to see if there's ways to put yourself into a diverse group. There may be some companies that don't offer that. But just thinking about that, as a reminder of us getting out of also our comfort zones, in finding places to put ourselves where we would maybe not necessarily encounter other types of individuals
like that. Yeah, you know, so if you can not go to it only when you have a problem. Right, go to them just to say hello, or to have lunch or buy them a pizza, or something along those lines, which can, again, foster those relationships, which I think fostering a relationship. And that safe environment is what's going to propel innovative thinking within organizations and creative thinking within ourselves. Right? You got to step out of your box in order to think outside the box. How's that for
a little cool?
All right. It's so any other ideas?
involving end user data. Yes. Yeah, I think the end user data becomes critical again, it's about knowing who your audience is. Know who you're around know, how they, how they respond to certain things. So Cindy, absolutely
windy. I have been
blessed, last couple of months with a meeting gentleman who works at Activision. And he's in learning and development, you know, so of course, I'm all over, you know, we're like, we have just great discussions. And he's brought up this a couple of times. And I'm like, I'm so jealous. Well, one you work at Activision. But he actually goes and talks to the level designers to get some ideas for like trainings and different things like that, because he's like, what is that? What is level design? You know, what is the quest design? You know, so you're talking to those folks to get ideas for training? I'm like, Oh, my gosh, that's so cool. That's so great. I mean, just to get out of his normal what he would normally do, I'm like, that's, that's a great idea. He's like, I've done that several times. And it's always fun and, and building those relationships.
Yes, absolutely. And we had that great conversation with Kevin, you know, a couple of weeks ago, Kevin Thorne, you know, about educational comics. And, you know, just thinking, I think sometimes with us is just thinking, we're trying to think, in a different way. And I know that it's cliche to say that just think differently. Okay, but what does that look like? What does that mean? You know, so maybe it's your original idea, I have an idea for XYZ. Okay, so now that's good. Let's put that aside. Now, let's think of a different idea. So how many ideas can we generate? Even if they're crazy out of the box? Silly, whatever, right? So you start just generating ideas, and it's not just a brainstorming exercise with yourself, but it's ideation. You know, so let's take that to entirely different levels. And then how can we then push that outward and encourage that sort of introspective pneus? If you will, you know, to other departments and other areas of the business? Right? wrong answers, only activity works. Yes, Jason. So Jason, you want to explain what a wrong answer is only activity is.
I know, the moment I knew the moment I started to type that you had asked me to explain it. And I've only I've only done it in person, we're at your table or whatever, you have an object and you have to figure out what does this thing do. But you can't actually say what it does. You know, it can't be if you have a mouse, can't say, you know, this is a computer mouse, you have to come up with any other anything else that it might be able to do, based off of what it looks like, or what you think it might be able to do. So just gets people really thinking outside of it. And, you know, along what you were saying as well, Shannon, one thing that I for some other people are gonna go accountants and engineers is when they start talking about, well, this, this isn't like, Okay, wait, don't just tell me about it. sketch it out, draw it out, and start making them think about how they disseminate information. And outside of just Well, I'm just gonna type Write, write, write a white paper. Well, please don't, please don't. Yeah, come up with you. Show me a picture that says what you're doing. Find these things, make them really think about what they're what they're doing out there.
Right. And it's that old, it goes back to an old sales moment. So they teach this a lot in sales. Here's a pencil. Give me 100 ways, you know, sell this pencil without selling me this pencil. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I saw that in sales a lot. But here's what I'd like you guys to do. I want you guys to think and don't put it in the chat. Just take a moment. I want you to think you can write it down. If you want to think of your favorite ways to inspire creativity. Try to keep it short one, two words, one sentence at the most. The different ways that you like to inspire creativity.
I'm gonna give me a few seconds to think about that. Once you have
one or two written down, I'd like you to type it into the chat. But do not hit Send yet. Do that. Just write it in the chat. And when I tell you to hit send, that's when you'll hit Send
your favorite way of generating ideas or creative thoughts, even if it's just a tool like using sticky notes
Ted, I need to know more about those draft chats that you just mentioned strategy chats I've seen that short for. I love those. Okay, everybody got it into the chat. Right now?
okay, what have we got? No notes, sticky notes, brainstorming, post it notes, drawing it out, communicate with others, when he questions in four minutes, oh, I need no more about that one. Ask what else? Right work a problem. Yes. All of these sorts of things. And everybody else, please put into the chat. share in the chat, your favorite technique for inspiring creative thinking. You guys are all a bunch of l&d professionals, you should have at least one up your sleeve. Be open asking people to tell me what their vision is. I like that. Activity generating questions or problems? Yes. Particular Is there a particular activity you like for mindfulness? That's a good one. And that's a good question. Magic whines questions, see all of this stuff. Now we're going to have to do is, I'm glad I put this in the chat, because now I'm gonna have to hit the Google machine. And when we talk about particular activities from mindfulness, I had to write that up in a follow up, because right now we're at the top of the hour, believe it or not, time flies, when you're having fun. And I think sometimes with mindfulness is just a matter of creating space.
and putting, you know, when they come into a virtual room like this, maybe you have some green noise, maybe you have a video of rolling water, or nature showing rather than just jumping into a conversation like this, give them an opportunity to create that space to be able to take that deep breath, you know, and become prepared. Maybe you have one question on the screen, and you have this beautiful background, you know, to give people an opportunity to clear their minds and think about that question. Right.
Okay. So coming up next,
we've got my row roll down, are learned something new, which is next week her part two on generative AI. So the last time she was with us, you walked us through some basics, like chat GPT excetera. So now she's going to go deeper into generative AI and show us you know, tools that can help us write learning objectives, etc, etc. Right. So all of that's going to be there it's on on the learning rebels website, you can find that under our Learn something new. So we're really looking forward to taking that conversation to a new level. Like I said, our next Coffee Chat for those of you who are new, they're not every week, every other week. So not next week, the week after, it's going to be about creative problem solving. And in this one, we're going to take a different approach, I'm going to ask you to bring a challenge with you. Right, and we're going to put you into groups and see what we could do as far as creative problem solving maybe some of your challenges. So I think that's going to be something different and fun. And hopefully some of you can walk away with potential solutions to some of the challenges that you're facing. And then don't forget about the learning rebels community. So we have our learning rebels community where this month the learning theme is about creative thinking. And where we post we have some research going on. We just had a very robust month last month about learning technologies, which generated a whole other subtopic about learning tools or agender of AI tools. So So yeah, there's that. And so things are going very active there in the learning rebels community. And I'd love to see some of you all there. So, on that note, I hope everyone has a fantastic weekend planned. I know and you are and Sean Connery. I know that you are planning to try to stay cool. And it's in Houston where it's over 100 degrees right now.
Well, I'm in Dallas at the moment but Houston with the humidity right
it makes it even worse but yes, it's I was telling Shannon I had to go walk the dog this morning while it was still only 89 degrees instead of 105. I know right. Thank you, Katrina. No, no and more. No. I will take a Midwest winner over a West Coast summer. Any day of the week. Any day of the week? Yes. Oh, you're going to go see a white movie, Wendy.
Studio Ghibli. I know what that is.
Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke, a house Moving Castle. They do Ghibli fest every year. And you can go see the movies in the theater. And there's like, I don't know, like at least a dozen. And I'm obviously a fan. So I try to go to see one or two because yeah, I own them. And I can watch them at home on my couch. But it's a whole other thing with the popcorn and the you know, big screams
like fun and a way to stay cool. Fabulous. That sounds like fun. Katrina, but California is a dry heat. You know what I say to that? Yes. So it's my oven. But I don't put my head in it. That's, that's my answer to the dry heat.
That's what they say my Phoenix Zoo and oh, no, thank you.
Excuse me. So thank you, everybody, for joining me today. This was a wonderful conversation. Thank you, everybody for your input. The resources will be up on the learning rebels website under Resources, copy, chat, go into resources, look for coffee chat, the resources there will be up within the next 24 to 48 hours. So you will have access to all of the video, the transcriptions and all the other good things and some of the links that were mentioned in the chat. So hopefully you find that to be valuable resource. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, everybody. Bye. Bye, Jason. Bye, everybody. Thomas, thank you for your input. Katrina. Thank you for your input. All right.