Leveraging Marketing to Help Create Financial Sustainability - Lindsay LaShell

7:26PM Apr 10, 2022

Speakers:

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Lindsay LaShell

Keywords:

people

marketing

nonprofits

journey

framework

organizations

brand

audience

clients

channels

donor

rabid fans

learned

website

virtuous

stepping stones

questions

lindsay

build

problem

Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast,

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Hey, Becky, Hi, John. We're going to Palm Springs, one of our favorite places, we get to talk about one of our favorite topics today, which is marketing, but not just marketing. This is not just the optics kind of marketing, we're going deep for how this can help build more financial stability for your nonprofit and just kind of reimagine how you go about this, and we're talking to one of the foremost leaders in this, Lindsey Rochelle is on the podcast. And her mission is to help organizations achieve financial stability and growth through marketing that's both empathetic and efficient. Can you tell that she's our people already. So her work combines her love of teaching and passion for entrepreneurship. And it's really the strategy that supports those working for justice, equity and sustainability. She also has learned under the legend of Seth Godin, who I've been calling Seth Godin my entire life, such huge SG fans, but she has her own MBA, which you know, is is just informing just a different level of mindsets. So I'm really excited to tap into her brain today. She is an opinionated consumer of gin, which we need to hear about, and a dedicated caretaker to her adorable Chihuahua, olive, which is like my favorite pet name of all time. So Lindsay, we're so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

You bet. Well, you know, we really want to get to know you tell us a little bit about your story. What drew you into this path? And what kind of attracted you to wanting to pour it all into this kind of different level of marketing tell take us back Where'd you grow up and tell us your story?

Yeah, you know, I mean, I've I've it's so funny to say this now I've lived in Southern California almost like for most of my life, I spent the 10 years in the East Bay. went to Cal very proud of that go Bears but uh, I think the this path that I'm on, it only really coalesced. For me two years ago, I'd say pandemic was basically the big turning point for me. So I because I went to Cal and was in the Bay Area during the late 90s. I actually worked for a bunch of like early like first round startups. Right. So I did the one point No, boom, and I learned a ton. But mostly what I learned was about white male privilege. And all of this money that was just getting moved around between other white like rich white dudes and other rich by tunes. And it's so funny. I went to Berkeley got it got a degree in anthropology didn't didn't protest in the streets, didn't it? That isn't the thing that turned me into a big ol hippie hippie was when I went into startups, and I got really disillusioned. My next move was to become an elementary school teacher in Oakland. Because I was like, this is a place where I can do some, like I can help, right, I can do something. And that was it. I mean, I learned more than the kids did. Right. It was an incredible experience. Five years in, in Oakland, which is exactly what you expect it to be. And Richmond, which is the same as Oakland, but without the brand recognition really. And then and then I got recruited back into technology, right, I had student loans, I was single, supporting yourself as a as a parent. Elementary like a public school teacher, with a bunch of student loan debt is a tough gig. So when I got recruited back into technology, I always had this idea in the back of my head that I wanted to do something more meaningful than just startups. And when that transition into marketing agencies and I started working in marketing agencies, I still knew that there was something more meaningful that I wanted to do. And when I started my own agency, we were not only serving nonprofits, we're not only serving, you know, underrepresented founders, we would work with anybody that we felt like we could be proud of right? Anybody that was doing something something useful. becoming an entrepreneur really changed my view of entrepreneurship, and of opportunity and privilege. And so for me, that was really the thing that shifted, when my business shifted, pandemic was only part of the part of the reason why basically it became like, this is what I have to do now what I have to do is find solo operator nonprofits, or like a founder led nonprofits, underrepresented founders in any industry. I work right now I work across like consumer packaged goods, consulting services, like literally everything Wow. Because I have a tool and it works. It works for everybody. So that path, you know, now now this is the first time in my life where I feel like my real deep passion for having a meaning will impact and the expertise that I've acquired through my career has really come together for the first time.

Well, first of all, congratulations. Because it, you know, I feel the same way that you do that I have finally grown up and figured out what I want to do with my life, and I'm doing the thing that I really want to do that I'm passionate about. And I love that we're talking about marketing in in terms of just like financial sustainability, because we're three marketers here, we have all been in shops, where people have told us, it's the first thing that's gonna get cut, if it's not our professional development, it's going to be the marketing. And right now, particularly in this digital age, in this age of digital and global community, we're thinking this has got to be something that's almost accelerated to the front of your budget, this could be one of the most important things. And so love that you have kind of just said that this is where you're going to sit, and you're going to help organizations just work to achieve that size, that financial sustainability, talk about how you do that through marketing, and what is so unique about your approach.

So two agencies that I worked for, before I started my own, there was this really common practice, and I see it everywhere. And it's, it's the marketing strategy, right, we're going to do some persona work, and we're going to do some brand work, and we're going to do all these things. And we're going to create all these beautiful PDFs, right? Maybe we'll even do some like donor interviews or whatever, write the whole thing. And then we're gonna pay the receptionist $15 an hour to be our social media person. And it's like, this space in between, how do we make sure that all this work we've done over here, is actually informing, and actually motivating all the stuff that gets done over here, it's not simple. The truth is, it's really not like I've seen a lot of really smart marketers be able to fill in the gaps on their own. But if you don't have somebody really skilled, producing the content over here, that has experienced talking to this audience and actually knows how to do it, it's not obvious. And so over, as I became more and more in, you know, I sort of started on on SEO and content, and like, those were my those were my areas. But then I started getting more into the strategy piece. And I and I developed a framework, it's actually a table, it's a grid, right? And it the first column is your audience journey. What do they care about at, you know, when they are have a problem they're trying to solve? They don't even know who you are yet? What do they care about? What questions are they asking, right? And then they learn about you? And what questions are they asking now. And it goes really deep dive very empathetic, right, in their own words, of their own journey. And then we push that through all these other columns of a table that goes even into channels, right? Because we need to be honest, like, the Discovery Channels are different than the engagement channels. They're different than the conversion channels. But if you think it through on that level, you basically can't get it wrong, right? So the idea is, if you get your people, right, you understand their journey, what you're offering them is actually what they need, right? If those two things are matched up, well, then this thing just creates a roadmap, you just fill it in and fill in the blanks. And it gives you the roadmap of like, what marketing actually needs to be done. Right, this answers the question of, do we need an email newsletter? Do we have to be on Twitter, right, those all those questions, it's not because, you know, because everybody else is doing it. It's not because the ad says we have to, it's because the audience expects us to it's because that's where they need us to meet them. And so that that once I once I sort of cracked the code, in that framework, by doing for my agency clients over and over again, then I developed a workshop that was specifically for small and new nonprofits to do it in one day, right? We sit down, we dig in, it's a really intense eight hour workshop. And we go through all of the stages, and you have a full fully fledged ready to execute marketing plan, including editorial calendar, ready to go at the end of the, at the end of the day. And so the work I do now is that workshop, but also consulting with larger nonprofits and larger, you know, larger organizations to do it over, you know, weeks, months, sometimes a year to to build that framework, and then execute it. Whoa.

Yeah, I mean, this is quite a paradigm shift. If you're sitting in the shop, thinking that marketing is just kinda like the stuff, you know, the social media, just kind of like this thing is categorically different. I mean, this is so strategically aligned. I love it. I keep hearing this and how you say it's almost like, if you follow this, it's actually going to lead to the it's not just this unknown variable. It's actually like the more you get to know your people, and the more you can tailor content, you will find success with this. It's less Morpheus than it may sound,

and there's so much more strategy in it. And the point that I love the most is is you talking about a donor journey and How we're putting intentionality about where we want to move them, and how we are meeting them in the spaces that they are not the spaces that are most comfortable for us. That doesn't mean we need to show up on every single platform, we just need to listen to the donor and understand where they are, how we can counter those messages. And I have to say, I feel like I've already heard a collective exhale from our audience of saying, Oh, my gosh, there is a class. It's eight hours. Okay, I can give up a day and build my entire marketing plan for the year. That is also a fantastic resource. So thanks for that heads up. Yeah,

absolutely. It's, I'm doing it because we should, or because we've always done it that way, right. It's just such a it's such an entrenched cultural thing, especially nonprofit marketing. And I'm sort of my thing is to say, we can substitute empathy, and we can substitute thoughtfulness and we can substitute planning. And if we do those things, instead of tradition, advertising dollars, whatever, we really can see the same and much better results.

Well, I know you've you work with a lot of organizations, you've walked them through this framework that you've built, what's the most surprising thing to most of your clients? I mean, what is the thing that most people get wrong, that you could kind of help our listeners realize, okay, this could be an area that maybe we're completely missing the mark right now.

I'm that jerk that I'm like, over and over and over again, I'm asking, Why are you doing this? Why are you sending? Why are you sending this email? And because engagement is not a thing, right? So so here's the metaphor that I use with my clients all the time, Japanese garden, have you guys ever been to a Japanese garden? They're like, really stunning, right? Like peaceful, peaceful. Yeah. So carefully crafted, like intentionality from beginning to end, right. And one of the things I learned this the first time I went to a Japanese garden, and it just like stuck with me, and then it became like, a way that I do my work. So most of the garden is super linear, right? The pathways are flat and paved. And even when you're over water, there are these like very geometric, right hard corners and flat, there are sections that will have stepping stones, and the stepping stones are intentionally there, they're different, they're rough, they're at different elevations, you're usually either going up a hill or down a hill, right. And so and it's on purpose, the idea is that the person walking through the garden has to keep their eyes on their feet. Because when you get to the end of the pathway, there's a VISTA that was there for you the entire time, but it was hidden from you. Because because they wanted it to be like a big reveal, right? It's called mediate Kakuta. It's it's hide and reveal is the is this technique. So the thing that I tell my clients is that every one of your marketing touchpoints is like one of those stepping stones. Right? And that means lots of things, it means you need to know what is the stepping stone behind it, that's leading people to this one. That's an explicit and thoughtful CTA. You need to know what questions they're asking in what order so that you can lay out the stepping stones in order that they want to do it right, you need to know that it's gonna take some time, you nobody goes from a to b, like this is this is the number of like, first touch campaigns that don't generate results, and clients are disappointed. And it's like, that's not the way people work. As humans, as consumers of marketing, we understand we're gonna see that brand five times on ads and emails and, you know, recommendations and out in the world before we even think about being proactive about it. So we need to be patient, but we need to be intentional. So if you're getting send that email on Thursday, I need to know, what is the purpose? What is the intent? Because that's how we measure it right? Are you trying to get people to click to read this article? Are you trying to get people to donate? Are you trying to get people to follow you on social, like, name a thing, then tell them what to do? And then measure your success? Period. Like that's that it's like, just don't take it for granted that putting ideas out into the world is gonna get you what you want.

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Hey friends, are you ready to take your digital engagement to the next level, but kind of feel stuck about where to start? Let us introduce you to feather feathers, an amazing tech startup focused on making nonprofit outreach more impactful by connecting you to your audience, wherever they are online, from fundraising to program awareness, they've got you covered. And rather than telling you we just wanted to show you for years, the Humane Society of North Central Florida has participated in a local online giving day called the amazing give. It's a competitive landscape for donations. So in 2021, the Humane Society knew they needed to stand out in order to maximize donations for $300 in ad spend their retargeting ads brought 119 visitors to their amazing gift donation page and generated nearly $6,000 in donations in just one day. With feather a small amount of ad spend can go a long way, learn more about their solutions for nonprofits@feather.co. That's feather without the last e.co. Now let's get back to this amazing conversation. I am obsessed with this story and analogy with this Japanese garden because it really illustrates so beautifully. What we're trying to do is we get to the Ask the reveal the VISTA, I think the way that you are talking about the journey is so smart. And and I would just like threaten a company value of ours for there. I mean, if this, we don't want to be transactional, you know, in our relationships, we don't want to just solicit, we don't want to ask, we want to warm we want to take them along on the journey. Because we're not here to build donors, we're here to build believers, we want to build people who believe so deeply in our mission, that they're going to, they're gonna wander on these paths with us, they're gonna come over here and see this thing, whether it's an event or a campaign or a text to giving or whatever it is, we want them to wander, and kind of get in those spaces, and the experience will be so much richer for that. And the back end of that is just loyalty and trust and affinity and rabid fans. And so, yes, we are drinking all the Kool Aid of which you are pouring right now. So but we want our listeners to walk away from this episode with some actionable steps they could take today to begin building their marketing plan. Could you just like walk us through a mini masterclass about where people could start?

Yeah, I think to me, I would do like a like an audit a touchpoint audit. And I would just line up like all of your marketing activities, your social media, your email newsletters, your your if you're sending print, if you're like having events, like literally like inventory then and then map them and say why or what role does each one of these things play in our audience journey? Not? What does it do for our organization? Not that's not the question I'm asking. I don't care about your follower account. I actually don't care about your gala attendees. Right? What I care about is bottom line, how many like what is this doing to serve your people? Because Because if you say, Okay, this is designed to bring them along, and get them on board with our approach, right, our approach is different. Our approach is specific. We need to we need to get them to see it. And so we're going to offer them the opportunity to learn and get engaged and do and participate and support, right. But name, the action. Our social media is designed to drive people to the website. Our website is designed like the homepage is designed to get people to watch this video. This video is designed to get people to take this action, right like name the thing be as specific as possible, and then cut out cut out everything that doesn't have a clear a clear role in that journey. I love telling clients what they don't have to do.

Free we love hearing that. I mean, just freedom. I mean, you've already called out a couple of like things that why are we on a social channel if it doesn't match who we're actually trying to shepherd on this journey. Right? That's an easy, but it can be a huge win from terms of time and planning and all that.

Yes, and I'll go a step farther because I just did this with a client. I've done it with a couple of clients now but I just did with a client and she was like absolutely blown away. If you have a Twitter, a Twitter feed, and you need to protect your brand I'm not saying just like walk away. But your your audiences are not on Twitter and it's not doing you any good investing time and energy putting content there. Here's what you do. You make your your profile photo, big, and branded and beautiful and say we are not here, go for us. And then give whatever social media channels you are on tell people to go to your website to sign up for your newsletter like whatever it is. Don't abandon the channel, right because if somebody finds you there we want we want them to see that you've thought of them, but you don't have to do that. So I'm like doing this all over like I'm not I'm not on Instagram, but I got this beautiful nine panel thing that's like go find me on like Then, right? Like, that's, that's, that's how that goes.

I'm not gonna so much such a great pro tip and I kind of want to close our Twitter account today, can we? Yes, you can't thanks for that permission. So Lindsey, something I loved about your website is I kind of was getting to know you before the show is that you're just so transparent in your own journey of how you would have started differently. If you were to start today. And you're gonna go to her website and watch this buy two or three minute video. But I think it kind of reframed how you personally think about marketing and how you would have invested if you would have restarted so we walk us through that and overlay it and how we can as nonprofits, or even as social good organizations can think about it.

Yeah, like I said, starting my own business, becoming an entrepreneur really changed my understanding of privilege in a new way, just like all entrepreneurs, you don't know what you don't know. And I didn't know that my weakness was network, which is pretty much the only strength that new agency needs. I know that now. But at the time, the thing that video doesn't say is that I was I was personally in a really tough spot, right, I was I was married to someone who was chronically underemployed or unemployed. And I was working in a really toxic environment and wasn't able to quit because I was the breadwinner. And it finally got to the point where I took a loan out secured by my like Toyota. And in order to make sure we have a couple of months runway worth of rent and quit my job and started the agency, because I was like, I was in such a terrible place, personally, and I couldn't find anything else. And I was like, I just, I have to, I have to do this. And so I didn't, I call myself a reluctant entrepreneur. But what that meant was that we were, we were bootstrapping from the very beginning, I was the last one to get paid. Right, I was saying I was bringing in clients, that was more work than I could do myself. And so I was I had freelancers from the beginning. And my intention was always to build a team, you know, is to name a diamond branch marketing group, that was always very intentional. And doing your own marketing is hard. It's, I'm, in fact, today on LinkedIn, I'm about to launch a series about why doing your own marketing is hard. And it's, you know, part of it is just like inside the head of a woman entrepreneur, right, that is this whole other thing about needing to be more likeable than you are self promotional, and all that kind of stuff. But then it was just hard to financially prioritize, you know, that sort of, it feels like overhead, it feels like overhead. And this is true in nonprofits too. Right. And I think one of the things if there's, if there's like, one big takeaway, and this is harsh, and I'm sorry, it's gonna it's this is I'm, I'm a super direct person. Only bad marketing is overhead. Only bad marketing.

Good, that's a powerful quote, say it again,

marketing, only bad marketing is overhead. So for any of your EDS out there, who don't want to invest in marketing, because they think it's a, it's a waste of time and money, I'm here to tell you, it's only a waste of time and money, if it's bad, and you choose, you choose for that. If you invest in it, and you're smart about it, you absolutely can have results. And I learned that I knew that I could do that for my clients. Prioritizing it for myself, in my own organization was very difficult. But, but I'm busting through that. Now.

You are. And I just want to tell you, I'm so proud of you for making that leap. And I look at your face right now, when you're talking about this, and you are so lit up and you are in the space that you wanted to be. And I also call myself like an imposter entrepreneur, because I would have never thought that I could be an entrepreneur, if John had not told me that he thought I could do it and that I would come along. And so I'm proud of you. I'd love what you're saying. I just think there's so much intentionality and strategy baked into what you're saying. And I think you're also making a great case for why this needs to be an investment in the budget. And so I want to talk about, like the marketing assets. And I just think for someone that doesn't have a marketing background, this can be so overwhelming. And we see a lot of people right now in our community who are literally trying to binge just how do I do this? How do I get into the digital marketing game? How do I build community? And I think one of my one of the biggest questions out there is like what would you say are sort of some of the essential marketing assets that organizations need? And then how do we use them and use them well, so they're not just something that is busy work for us? They're actually moving the needle on these journeys that you're talking about?

Yeah, so you're not might not like my answer. Oh, I can't wait.

It means we already like it.

Is it disruptive? Is it different? It's Yes. Here's I can't

tell you. Yeah, the answer is it depends. Like, the only thing you need to know for sure. Are, who are your people? And where are they hanging out? And what do they care about? That's all that so like, I can't say like, people always ask me like, oh, blah, blah, blah, Facebook, or Oh, blah, blah, blah, MailChimp. And it's like, sure if that's right for your audience, but it might not be. And to me, it's, it's two pieces, right? Like, like I said, at the beginning, it's not just your people, it's really deeply understanding their journey. I think the other thing that is a little bit more to to like, the more traditional answer to your question is, I'm a huge believer in what I call brand pillars. And my version of brand pillars are usually three or four messaging themes that we can use over and over and over again, to communicate sort of almost subconsciously, to our audience, about who we are and why they want to engage with us. So it's like the example that I use is like you take take a case study, take any case study, if one of your brand pillars is quantitative impact, right, then that's really easy to think about how you would write a case study with the subtext, the main point of the story being to emphasize the quantitative impact, right. But if you had a case study that was or the same case study, right, but the message was actually about, I don't know, like inclusion, right, or teamwork or something like that, then you write that case study, and instead of focusing on the numbers, like the numbers are there, but the point of the story is, this was contributed by this person, this was was contributed by this person, this person's experience informed us in this way. And that's how we got to the end of the day. So you can sort of see that like, those brand pillars become the water that that your audience swims in, so that they don't, they don't remember those numbers, but they remember, Oh, this is an organization that values these things. It's an organization that presents themselves in these way. And when you get inside of them that way, then then they're yours. Right? Then that's when you've, you've met that thing. But understanding what those three or four brand pillars are. And then and then leveraging them using them really consistently, is the trick. Because when you do that, the problem is I think most most organizations that I find, maybe they have brand pillars, but they're not actively engaged with them in their content creation. And so that that's the same as not having them. And then in the end the contents all over the place, you're talking about your work, you're talking about your work, you're talking about your work, but those deeper themes of why it's important, and who you are, that's doing the work, get lost. And so those, those are the sorts of like, you know, I say all the time, you don't need to have good marketing, you need to have consistent marketing. Really, consistency is way more important than quality. And so this is why one of the reasons why I was gonna say like this is this is why I am a fan of the receptionist who does the social media, because it's gonna get done, right. And so with the tools that the framework provides, then we can let him or her know, like, help them understand what are the messages that need to come through in that content? Who is the audience they are trying to reach? What is the action they're trying to motivate? And then it becomes significantly more impactful. Right, then it actually does what it's supposed to

do. I just have to affirm everything you say, and I feel like the sneaky professor that just snuck in a trick question there about what are the marketing assets you need? Because you answered it correctly? The answer is, it's It depends. There is no one size fits all model. And if there, if you are listening to these podcasts, and you're going to, you know, summits or webinars and trainings, and people are telling you, you need to have a video, you need to have all of these things. Really what you need to do is a deep inventory of who you are, your values, your brand promise and and express that through how we're going to move the needle on our mission with these donor journeys. So I just want to compliment you and say, listen to everything Lindsey just said, because that was the way to do it.

And you're helping me put in words was like my soapbox in life is like I just I get so frustrated, especially being in healthcare, because healthcare wants to look at health, other health care organizations, and people start talking about best practices. And it's like these tactics, and they think you have to follow these 42 tactics that the best practice followed. And it's like, no, like, what's the philosophy? Sure, let's get on the same page with that. But let's build what's right for your people. So can we talk about you know, I love this content strategy. I love when people reflect back our values to us like, it's like the best thing. So I know that what you're teaching is really true and get in speaks to getting people aligned with what you're trying to accomplish. How do you coach people to measure their impact, you know, with all this content creation, all this engagement online? How do you measure that?

Ah, it's an Alliott pass and love it. So the thing like I was, I was telling you about the framework, right? So so And the last column, the very last thing we over on the right hand side is measurement. Because if you think about it like this, right, if we know where we know who they are when they're having a problem, or by the way, I'm going to interrupt myself really quick and say, Yes, donors have problems, right? The problems that the donors have that they're trying to solve is I see problems in the world and I want to get involved in fix them. That's the that's the, that's their them in the problem stage, right? So so we know what our brand pillars are going to be to address them in that moment, we know what channels they're using. So we know what we need to be what assets we need to be creating, where we're talking to them. And because of all those things, we know what success looks like. Because we know that if we are doing a good job, at the awareness, you know, at the problem level, then it stalled design with intentionality. So usually that level, it's like, maybe it's a social media growth. Usually it's search traffic, right? Like, we know that we are increasing awareness among our our target populations, if more people are searching for us and coming to our website, yet, at each level, we're like, we know the email newsletter is designed to move people from problem stage to solution stage. So we know that this is like and you can just count all the way down, it becomes really, really straightforward and obvious, because we've been so intentional about what are the channels that go into each stage, we know and the best part about that is that if one of the channels like you see a little bit of growth, a little bit of growth, like going all the way down, if one of the one of the journey stages, doesn't have the data to keep up with the other journey stages, then you know, where things are broken, then, you know, if it's the top of the funnel, if it's like this one, that number isn't moving, guess what, we need to change our approach for those the channels that are contributing to that journey stitch, you know, if we're seeing everything is happening, except for nobody's clicking on the donate button, let's let's work on that, like, let's five, try five different ways of making that different and see what happens, you know, so it becomes a really, really straightforward, like, when you when you understand the answer to why, why are you sending this email? Right? Why are you on Twitter at all? Then you can measure it for success? Because it's it's very clear the role that it plays in your in your work.

I love that you talked about search, too, because I mean, we go to Google to answer questions that are in our heads. So how else can you get into someone's head, but you see that, if that's lifting it is working in LinkedIn now even offers, like how many times in the last 30 days? Have you been searched? And it's kind of this cool thing that's lifted from a company profile. So I just think what great advice, I'm just we're eating this conversation up.

Yeah. And I would even piggyback on this incredible counsel that you're giving on measurement, that if you're having problems getting marketing budget, start to socialize what your data is telling you. Because that is going to drive why you need to make an investment there. And so what that means is you got to create some time on your calendar. And PS, I was the worst at this. So I feel total imposter saying what I'm saying so do as I say not as I do. But put some time on your calendar once a month to look at that data. And it's free. I mean, like Data Analytics is free. And if you are not aware of how to read data analytics, like there is some free you could YouTube, like the basics of how to do that. And then take that data, share it in staff meeting, lift it up to your ED, share it at the board meeting, and that it will validate and substantiate why you are moving in this way. And I think that is how we start to turn the hearts and minds of people to understanding why this is actually a brilliant investment. So thank you, for all of that. Lindsay. I just feel like I'm learning and expanding my mind so much on this. I think, you know, one of the things that strikes me about you is just how empathetic you are and how much you love serving. And I would love to just know a story of philanthropy that has touched you in your lifetime. And it doesn't have to be modern day, it could be something from a long time ago, or it could be something in your work. So what's a story that lifts up for you?

You know, this is a stretch defining this as philanthropy but but it speaks a lot to how I think about the world. When I was in college, I was in a Bible study. And one of the leaders was this very kind, gentle person. His name was Ben. And I had known Ben for like two weeks, I had been invited to go mountain biking with a bunch of friends and I didn't have a mountain bike and Ben had just gotten this like brand new $1,200 mount it was I'm sorry it was like the mid 90s It was and I put myself through school right so it was like that was that was a very precious valuable thing. And he let me borrow it without without thinking twice and I was really just stunned by that. And he he said things are for using and I just he had like no I'm like Misty about it. Because it really did impact the way I think about everything you He said, I don't ever want to own anything that's too precious to share.

That could be one of the most beautiful expressions of generosity ever. And isn't that just sort of as I'm getting misty eyed, isn't that sort of just the underpinning of what we're trying to do here is share a little bit of what we have. It doesn't have to be a million dollars, it can be a bike in an afternoon, perfect story I adore you bet.

That's like, the most pure philanthropy right there. Lindsey, we ask all of our guest to share one good thing, you kind of bring it home. I mean, you have us in a very captive audience, but what's something you would leave with our listeners with us can be a mantra, a life hack, something you leave with the community?

You know, this is so weird, because it's, I'm gonna quote advice from my from my sales coach. Strange, but in sales advice, it became about marketing, it became about lots of other things in my life. But one of the things that she taught me is that in all of these, all of these things you're offering, you're not asking. And so you're offering your services, you're not asking someone to buy from you. You're offering the opportunity to get involved and support our work. You're not asking for a donation, you're offering knowledge and wisdom, and if people want it cool, and if they don't, that's up to them. Right. And so, you know, you're, you're offering love and support, and that it's just to me, it's just part of the abundance mindset, right? To just think about what what you can give and not what what you need.

Lindsay You know, what's up?

Okay, how can how can people listening connect with you? I know, I want you to kind of share about the framework and workshops you offer to and just point people, how can we follow you have found you already on LinkedIn and want us to all the ways?

Awesome, yeah, so LinkedIn is the best way. That's where I'm active on social media. My new website is open dash lines.co. And so the diamond branch was the marketing agency brand. And now I'm shifting to focus just on the framework. So that's open lines. So I will say I'll do a quick plug, I'm going to be at cause camp in, in Grand Rapids in May. That is a big nonprofit marketing conference, I'm going to be teaching a workshop, half a day on planning and prioritizing. I'm also going to be doing boot camps associated with that. So we do the boot camps digitally, that one day workshop that I was describing is actually split up into two days online. So you can sign up for that through the through cost camp, if you want to do that. I'm going to be doing this stuff online. In a few months, I'll be launching courses. And then the websites got information about you know, consulting, and I'm writing a book right, this is now that this is my job. This is my dream job, like all I'm trying to do is find all of the ways to get the framework to be more accessible, more available, you know, more, just get it get it out there so people can

use it. Our favorite thing in the world is when people give generously and democratize their process, because that's exactly what we want to do. We want to help anyone who cares about chasing purpose, accelerate faster, scale faster. And so please check out Lindsay's websites or social channels. I feel like I have learned so much in this conversation. Thank you for educating me. And I just wish you the best and all of your clients, you're such a light and I just feel really lucky that you came into our space and gave us this just wonderful education and insight today. Thank you.

Thank you. I have my dream job and don't take it for granted.

It's been an honor. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Today's episode was brought to you by our good friends at auth zero. Without zero your nonprofit can do more with a login box. Greet prospects and rabid fans of your mission with authenticity simply make it easier for your team to manage data. There's so much at Oxy ro login experience can do. Visit off zero.org For more info.

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thanks friends.